Phantom Dex Testing

[Whirlin]

Dex Weighting Testing:
One Handed Edged:
Weapon|Dex Bonus|Minimum Dex Bonus|Maximum Dex Bonus|Potential Divisors
Dagger|YES|Riltus
Main Gauche|YES|8|?|
Rapier|YES|Riltus
Whip-Balde|???
Katar|Yes|6|?
Short Sword|YES|6|6|6
Scimitar|YES|2|?
Estoc|YES|3|?
Longsword|NO|Riltus
Handaxe|NO|Riltus
Backsword|NO|Riltus
Broadsword|NO|0|2
Falchion|NO|0|3
Katana|YES|8|9|4
Bastard Sword|NO|0|2


Evidence:


Main Gauche
You swing a main gauche at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +22 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +76 = +148
... and hit for 23 points of damage!
Well aimed shot, punctures calf!
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 3 LEFT LEG PUNCTURE: Damage: 13 Status Effect: Stunned 1 Round Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: gauche against AvD: 25, d100 Roll: 76, Endroll: 148, Total Damage: 23

Raw dmg: 10
Crit dmg: 13
Total dmg: 23
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather, w/ greaves for 6
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 1 [trunc(10/6)]
Actual crit rank: 3
Observed Phantom Damage: 8


Katar
You punch with a bejeweled katar at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +65 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +86 = +122
... and hit for 16 points of damage!
Nice puncture to the abdomen, just missed vital organs!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 2 ABDOMEN PUNCTURE: Damage: 10 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: katar against AvD: 32, d100 Roll: 86, Endroll: 122, Total Damage: 16

Raw dmg: 6
Crit dmg: 10
Total dmg: 16
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 1 [trunc(6/6)]
Actual crit rank: 2
Observed Phantom Damage: 6


Short Sword

You swing a short sword at a hobgoblin!
* AS: +84 vs DS: +25 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +82 = +177
* *... and hit for 38 points of damage!
* *Stomach ripped open by mighty blow!
* *The hobgoblin is stunned!
Your short sword fades some.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
> RANK 4 ABDOMEN CRUSH: * *Damage: *20 * * Status Effect: *Stunned 3 Rounds * * Wounds: *Rank 2*
*Weapon used: *sword against AvD: 36, d100 Roll: *82, Endroll: 177, Total Damage: 38*
Raw dmg: 18
Crit dmg: 20
Total dmg: 38
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 3 [trunc(18/6)]
Actual crit rank: 4
Observed Phantom Damage: 6

You swing a short sword at a hobgoblin!
AS: +84 vs DS: +27 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +53 = +146
... and hit for 18 points of damage!
Torn muscle in the hobgoblin's left leg!
Your short sword fades some.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
RANK 1 LEFT LEG CRUSH: Damage: 7 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: sword against AvD: 36, d100 Roll: 53, Endroll: 146, Total Damage: 18

Raw dmg: 11
Crit dmg: 7
Total dmg: 18
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather w/ Greaves
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 1 [trunc(11/6)]
Actual crit rank: 1
Required to not be Crit Rank 1: Rank 3
Maximum Phantom Crit Damage: <7


Scimitar
You swing a scimitar at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +25 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +55 = +130
... and hit for 18 points of damage!
Hearty smack to the head.
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 2 HEAD CRUSH: Damage: 10 Status Effect: Stunned 1 Round Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: scimitar against AvD: 31, d100 Roll: 55, Endroll: 130, Total Damage: 18

Raw dmg: 8
Crit dmg: 10
Total dmg: 18
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather, head, so 5
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 1 [trunc(8/5)]
Actual crit rank: 2
Observed Phantom Damage: 2


Estoc

You thrust with an estoc at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +61 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +85 = +131
... and hit for 16 points of damage!
Hesitant slash to the hobgoblin's upper right arm!
Just a scratch.
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
> RANK 2 RIGHT ARM SLASH: Damage: 7 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: estoc against AvD: 38, d100 Roll: 85, Endroll: 131, Total Damage: 16

Raw dmg: 9
Crit dmg: 7
Total dmg: 16
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather, arms, w/ greaves, for 6
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 1 [trunc(9/6)]
Actual crit rank: 2
Observed Phantom Damage: 3


Falchion
>You swing a drake falchion at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +30 with AvD: +37 + d100 roll: +71 = +147
... and hit for 20 points of damage!
Awkward slash to the hobgoblin's stomach!
Everyone needs another belly button.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 1 ABDOMEN SLASH: Damage 5 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: falchion against AvD: 37, d100 Roll: 71, Endroll: 147, Total Damage: 20

Raw dmg: 15
Crit dmg: 5
Total dmg: 20
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 2 [trunc(15/6)]
Actual crit rank: 1
Absence of Crit Damage: 3


I WANT A BROADSWORD!!!!!!

>You swing a broadsword at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +23 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +71 = +153
... and hit for 23 points of damage!
Torn muscle in the hobgoblin's left leg!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 1 LEFT LEG CRUSH: Damage: 7 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: broadsword against AvD: 36, d100 Roll: 71, Endroll: 153, Total Damage: 23

Raw dmg: 16
Crit dmg: 7
Total dmg: 23
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather w/ greaves
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 2 [trunc(16/6)]
Actual crit rank: 1
Absence of Crit Damage: 2


Katana: 1H

You swing a vultite katana at a hobgoblin!
AS: +89 vs DS: +40 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +71 = +156
... and hit for 38 points of damage!
Quick, hard slash to the hobgoblin's right arm!
*CRACK*
The hobgoblin is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 6 RIGHT ARM SLASH: Damage: 20 Status Effect: Stunned 5 Rounds Wounds: Rank 2
Weapon used: katana against AvD: 36, d100 Roll: 71, Endroll: 156, Total Damage: 38

Raw dmg: 18 + 10 Weighting
Crit dmg: 20
Total dmg: 38
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather w/ greaves
Max crit rank w/ natural weighting: 4 [trunc (28/6)]
Actual crit rank: 6
Phantom Damage Discovered: 8

-same thing... but why not more logs?-
You swing a vultite katana at a hobgoblin!
AS: +89 vs DS: +65 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +94 = +154
... and hit for 63 points of damage!
Hard slash to the hobgoblin's side opens her spleen!
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
> Weapon used: katana against AvD: 36, d100 Roll: 94, Endroll: 154, Total Damage: 63
RANK 6 CHEST SLASH: Damage: 45 Status Effect: Stunned 6 Rounds Wounds: Rank 3 Chest, Rank 2 Back

Raw dmg: 18 + 10 Weighting
Crit dmg: 45
Total dmg: 63
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank w/ natural weighting: 4 [trunc (28/6)]
Actual crit rank: 6
Phantom Damage Discovered: 8


You swing a vultite katana at a hobgoblin!
AS: +89 vs DS: +23 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +30 = +132
... and hit for 20 points of damage!
Feint to the left goes astray as the hobgoblin dodges!
You scratch my back...
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 2 BACK SLASH: Damage: 10 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: katana against AvD: 36, d100 Roll: 30, Endroll: 132, Total Damage: 20

Raw dmg: 10 + 10 Weighting
Crit dmg: 10
Total dmg: 20
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank w/ natural weighting: 3 [trunc (20/6)]
Actual crit rank: 2
Phaseout of Crit rank 2: Rank 5
Max Phantom Damage Potental:<10



Bastard Sword: 1H

You swing a bastard sword at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +39 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +87 = +148
... and hit for 21 points of damage!
Blow leaves an imprint on the hobgoblin's chest!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 1 CHEST CRUSH: Damage: 5 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: sword against AvD: 31, d100 Roll: 87, Endroll: 148, Total Damage: 21

Raw dmg: 16
Crit dmg: 5
Total dmg: 21
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather w/ greaves
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 2 [trunc(16/6)]
Actual crit rank: 1
Absence of Crit Damage: 2

[Whirlin]

Dex testing for OHBs

[Whirlin]

Dex testing for THW

Weapon|Dex Bonus|Minimum Dex Bonus|Maximum Dex Bonus|Potential Divisors
Runestaff|Yes|6|7|6
Quarterstaff|Yes|5
Bastart Sword|Yes|5
Katana|Yes|6, additive to natural +10|7|6
Military Pick|Yes|3|4|11-13
Flail
Flamberge|Yes|3|4|11-13
War Mattock
Maul
Two-Handed Sword
Battle Axe
Claid|No - Riltus


You swing a drakar-runed scepter at a hobgoblin! (that's my runestaff)
AS: +89 vs DS: -9 with AvD: +15 + d100 roll: +15 = +128
... and hit for 16 points of damage!
Blow to back cracks several vertebrae.
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.

** Necrotic energy from your drakar-runed scepter overflows into you! **

You feel empowered!

> RANK 2 BACK CRUSH: Damage: 10 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: scepter against AvD: 15, d100 Roll: 15, Endroll: 128, Total Damage: 16

Raw dmg: 6
Crit dmg: 10
Total dmg: 16
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 1 [trunc(6/6)]
Actual crit rank: 2
Observed Phantom Damage: 6

-Entertained by the Ensorcell flare... so left that in.





You swing a spiral-carved slender orase staff at a hobgoblin!
AS: +94 vs DS: +24 with AvD: +15 + d100 roll: +56 = +141
... and hit for 9 points of damage!
Cut over the hobgoblin's left eye.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 1 LEFT EYE CRUSH: Damage: 1 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: staff against AvD: 15, d100 Roll: 56, Endroll: 141, Total Damage: 9
Raw dmg: 8
Crit dmg: 1
Total dmg: 9
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather: 5 for eyes though!
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 1 [trunc(8/5)]
Actual crit rank: 1
Required to not get Crit Rank 1: Rank 3
Maximum Phantom Damage: 7



You swing a quarter staff at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +15 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +57 = +137
... and hit for 21 points of damage!
Large gash to the right arm, several muscles torn.
The hobgoblin is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
> RANK 3 RIGHT ARM CRUSH: Damage: 8 Status Effect: Stunned 1 Round Wounds: Rank 2
Weapon used: staff against AvD: 26, d100 Roll: 57, Endroll: 137, Total Damage: 21

Raw dmg: 13
Crit dmg: 8
Total dmg: 21
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather w/ Greave
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 2 [trunc(13/6)]
Actual crit rank: 3
Observed Phantom Damage: 5



You swing a bastard sword at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +52 with AvD: +45 + d100 roll: +85 = +147
... and hit for 36 points of damage!
Left kneecap smashed into pulp.
The hobgoblin is knocked to the ground!
The hobgoblin is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 4 LEFT LEG CRUSH: Damage: 17 Status Effect: Stunned 3 Rounds, Knockdown Wounds: Rank 2
Weapon used: sword against AvD: 45, d100 Roll: 85, Endroll: 147, Total Damage: 36

Raw dmg: 19
Crit dmg: 17
Total dmg: 36
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather, w/ greaves, for 6
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 3 [trunc(19/6)]
Actual crit rank: 4
Observed Phantom Damage: 5


You swing a vultite katana at a hobgoblin!
AS: +89 vs DS: +36 with AvD: +41 + d100 roll: +53 = +147
... and hit for 50 points of damage!
The hobgoblin twists away but is caught with a hard slash!
Back is broken!
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 6 BACK SLASH: Damage: 30 Status Effect: Stunned 5 Rounds, Knockdown Wounds: Rank 3
Weapon used: katana against AvD: 41, d100 Roll: 53, Endroll: 147, Total Damage: 50

Raw dmg: 20
Crit dmg: 30
Total dmg: 50
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 5 [trunc(20 + 10 weighting/6)]
Actual crit rank: 6
Observed Phantom Damage: 6

You swing a vultite katana at a hobgoblin!
AS: +89 vs DS: +31 with AvD: +41 + d100 roll: +32 = +131
... and hit for 20 points of damage!
Slash to the hobgoblin's shield arm!
Shears off a thin layer of skin!
Roundtime: 7 sec.
Roundtime changed to 2 seconds.
RANK 2 LEFT ARM SLASH: Damage: 7 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: katana against AvD: 41, d100 Roll: 32, Endroll: 131, Total Damage: 20

Raw dmg: 13
Crit dmg: 7
Total dmg: 20
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 2 [trunc(13 + 10 weighting/6)]
Actual crit rank: 2 (would phase out at Teir 5)
Maximum Potential Phantom Damage: 7



Interesting Results:
You swing a military pick at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +23 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +65 = +141
... and hit for 30 points of damage!
Strike connects with shoulder blade!
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 7 sec.
Roundtime changed to 2 seconds.
>
RANK 3 BACK PUNCTURE: Damage: 15 Status Effect: Stunned 2 Rounds Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: pick against AvD: 30, d100 Roll: 65, Endroll: 141, Total Damage: 30

Raw dmg: 15
Crit dmg: 15
Total dmg: 30
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 2 [trunc(15/6)]
Actual crit rank: 1
Observed Phantom Damage: 3


You swing a military pick at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +9 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +77 = +167
... and hit for 34 points of damage!
Strike pierces thigh!
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
Roundtime changed to 2 seconds.
> RANK 2 LEFT LEG PUNCTURE: Damage: 9 Status Effect: Knockdown Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: pick against AvD: 30, d100 Roll: 77, Endroll: 167, Total Damage: 34

Raw dmg: 25
Crit dmg: 9
Total dmg: 34
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather w/ Greaves
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 4 [trunc(25/6)]
Actual crit rank: 2
Maximum Phantom Damage: 5


You swing a flamberge at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +41 with AvD: +43 + d100 roll: +77 = +148
... and hit for 37 points of damage!
Eye crushed by a hard blow to the face!
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 5 LEFT EYE CRUSH: Damage: 15 Status Effect: Stunned 10 Rounds Wounds: Rank 2-3?
Weapon used: flamberge against AvD: 43, d100 Roll: 77, Endroll: 148, Total Damage: 37
Observed Phantom Damage: 3

Raw dmg: 22
Crit dmg: 15
Total dmg: 37
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather, 5 for eyes
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 4 [trunc(22/5)]
Actual crit rank: 5
Observed Phantom Damage: 3


You swing a flamberge at a hobgoblin!
AS: +69 vs DS: +12 with AvD: +43 + d100 roll: +30 = +130
... and hit for 17 points of damage!
Quick slash to the hobgoblin's upper left arm!
Just a nick.
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 1 LEFT ARM SLASH: Damage: 3 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: flamberge against AvD: 43, d100 Roll: 30, Endroll: 130, Total Damage: 17

Raw dmg: 14
Crit dmg: 3
Total dmg: 17
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather, w/ Greaves
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 2 [trunc(14/6)]
Actual crit rank: 1
Maximum Phantom Damage: 4

[Whirlin]

Dex Testing for Polearms

[Whirlin]

Dex testing for Ranged

PS: Buy my 7x longbow with +3 STR, +3 Dex enhancives for 12m.


One Handed Edged:
Weapon|Dex Bonus|Minimum Dex Bonus|Maximum Dex Bonus|Potential Divisors
Short Bow|Yes|9|9|N/A
Composite Bow|Yes|9|9
Long Bow|Yes|9|9|N/A
Light Crossbow|Yes
Heavy Crossbow|Yes



Evidence:

Short Bow:




You remove a single wooden arrow from a bundle of wooden arrows.
>You nock a wooden arrow in your short bow.
You fire a wooden arrow at a hobgoblin!
* AS: +104 vs DS: -10 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +1 = +139
* *... and hit for 24 points of damage!
* *Loud *crack* as the hobgoblin's sternum breaks!
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
The wooden arrow sticks in a hobgoblin's chest!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
RANK 3 CHEST PUNCTURE: Damage: 15 Status Effect: Stunned 2 Rounds Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: bow against AvD: 24, d100 Roll: 1, Endroll: 139, Total Damage: 24

Raw dmg: 9
Crit dmg: 14
Total dmg: 24
Armor crit divisor: 6 Double Leather
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 1 [trunc(9/6)]
Actual crit rank: 3
Observed Phantom Damage: 9


You need a free hand to do that.
>You nock a wooden arrow in your short bow.
You fire a wooden arrow at a hobgoblin!
AS: +93 vs DS: +12 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +82 = +187
... and hit for 30 points of damage!
Strike to the chest breaks a rib!
a bundle of wooden arrows entered the room.
The wooden arrow ricochets away from a hobgoblin, landing nearby.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 2 CHEST PUNCTURE: Damage: 10 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: bow against AvD: 24, d100 Roll: 82, Endroll: 187, Total Damage: 30
Raw dmg: 20
Crit dmg: 10
Total dmg: 30
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank: 3 [trunc (20/6)]
Actual crit rank: 2
Phaseout of Crit rank 2: Rank 5 (30 raw)
Max Phantom Damage Potental:<10



Composite Bow:

You nock a wooden arrow in your composite bow.
You fire a wooden arrow at a hobgoblin!
AS: +104 vs DS: +14 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +27 = +149
... and hit for 35 points of damage!
Well placed strike shatters a rib!
The hobgoblin is stunned!
a bundle of wooden arrows entered the room.
The wooden arrow sticks in a hobgoblin's chest!
Roundtime: 6 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 4 CHEST PUNCTURE: Damage: 20 Status Effect: Stunned 3 Rounds Wounds: Rank 2
Weapon used: bow against AvD: 32, d100 Roll: 27, Endroll: 149, Total Damage: 35
Raw dmg: 15
Crit dmg: 20
Total dmg: 35
Armor crit divisor: 6 double Leather
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 2 [trunc(15/6)]
Actual crit rank: 4
Observed Phantom Damage: 9

You remove a single wooden arrow from a bundle of wooden arrows.
>You nock a wooden arrow in your composite bow.
You fire a wooden arrow at a hobgoblin!
AS: +104 vs DS: -9 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +63 = +208
... and hit for 47 points of damage!
Loud *crack* as the hobgoblin's sternum breaks!
The hobgoblin is stunned!
a bundle of wooden arrows entered the room.
The wooden arrow sticks in a hobgoblin's chest!
Roundtime: 6 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 3 CHEST PUNCTURE: Damage: 15 Status Effect: Stunned 2 Rounds Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: bow against AvD: 32, d100 Roll: 63, Endroll: 208, Total Damage: 47
Raw dmg: 32
Crit dmg: 15
Total dmg: 47
Armor crit divisor: 6 Double
Max crit rank: 5 [trunc (32/6)]
Actual crit rank: 3
Phaseout of Crit rank 3: Rank 7 (42 raw)
Max Phantom Damage Potental:<10





Long Bow:

You nock a wooden arrow in your long bow.
You fire a wooden arrow at a hobgoblin!
AS: +104 vs DS: +14 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +24 = +147
... and hit for 35 points of damage!
Well placed strike shatters a rib!
The hobgoblin is stunned!
The wooden arrow sticks in a hobgoblin's chest!
Roundtime: 7 sec.
Roundtime changed to 2 seconds.
>
RANK 4 CHEST PUNCTURE: Damage: 20 Status Effect: Stunned 3 Rounds Wounds: Rank 2
Weapon used: bow against AvD: 33, d100 Roll: 24, Endroll: 147, Total Damage: 35
Raw dmg: 15
Crit dmg: 20
Total dmg: 35
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 2 [trunc(15/6)]
Actual crit rank: 4
Observed Phantom Damage: 9

You nock a wooden arrow in your long bow.
You fire a wooden arrow at a hobgoblin!
AS: +104 vs DS: +2 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +99 = +234
... and hit for 64 points of damage!
Strike to abdomen punctures stomach!
The hobgoblin crumples to the ground and dies.
The wooden arrow sticks in a hobgoblin's abdomen!
Roundtime: 7 sec.
Roundtime changed to 2 seconds.
>
RANK 4 ABDOMEN PUNCTURE: Damage: 20 Status Effect: Stunned 3 Rounds Wounds: Rank 2
Weapon used: bow against AvD: 33, d100 Roll: 99, Endroll: 234, Total Damage: 64

Raw dmg: 44
Crit dmg: 20
Total dmg: 64
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather
Max crit rank: 7 [trunc (44/6)]
Actual crit rank: 4
Phaseout of Crit rank 4: Rank 9 (54 raw)
Max Phantom Damage Potental:<10



Light Crossbow:


Heavy Crossbow:

[Whirlin]

Dex Testing for Spell Aiming

[Whirlin]

Dex Testing for Hurling

I don't have a hurler... want to borrow self-returners.

[Whirlin]

So... some strange results from my testing with a Military Pick which leads me to a few potential conclusions:
1) Phantom damage is not always DEX/4
2) Phantom damage only adds to Max Randomized Crit Range, but doesn't increase the minimum
3) Weapons have a max phantom damage that can be applied, regardless of Dex.


Random additional stuff:
Snowcats make good unarmored targets too:
You nock a wooden arrow in your composite bow.
You fire a wooden arrow at a mountain snowcat!
AS: +93 vs DS: +24 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +20 = +114
... and hit for 8 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the right arm.
Glancing shot. The wooden arrow flips over, landing behind a mountain snowcat.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
a bundle of wooden arrows entered the room.
RANK 1 RIGHT ARM PUNCTURE: Damage: 3 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: bow against AvD: 25, d100 Roll: 20, Endroll: 114, Total Damage: 8

Conveys that 5 damage caused rank 1 critical = cloth armor,
Also shows crit weighting of <10, and no natural crit padding.

[Ryku]

Whirlin, you are a fucking baller!

[Donquix]

So... some strange results from my testing with a Military Pick which leads me to a few potential conclusions:
1) Phantom damage is not always DEX/4
2) Phantom damage only adds to Max Randomized Crit Range, but doesn't increase the minimum
3) Weapons have a max phantom damage that can be applied, regardless of Dex.

all weapons or only certain weapons? my initial assumption would be something like, the amount dex factors in is some function based off the weapon size/base RT.

edit: and no weighting for short sword? da fuq...

[Whirlin]

all weapons or only certain weapons? my initial assumption would be something like, the amount dex factors in is some function based off the weapon size/base RT.

edit: and no weighting for short sword? da fuq...
I can retest... but I trust Riltus' testing.

[Donquix]

I can retest... but I trust Riltus' testing.

oh no, i'm not saying retest. I wouldn't question either one of you. Just saying, i'm surprised.

[Drew]

Wait, so some weapons get phantom crit weighting and some don't? What??

[tyrant-201]

Why are we testing Dex? Somehow I think that will make her grumpy.

Also, Dude, I have a whip blade you can totally use. IM me or PM me sometime.

[Whirlin]

Updated... Katanas either have a max of +6 Phantom damage, or potentially Dex/6 for crit damage... When swung as a THW.

[Whirlin]

Updated again... 1H Katanas appear to have DEX/4 or DEX/5 phantom damage added... or a max of 8... who knows... I can only get 8-10 span.

Also added tables... yay tables.

[lordsmo]

Thanks for posting this Whirlin. What's the test subject's dex bonus?

[Wheelerm]

Is there anything I can do to help? I have a late 40s TWC rogue, a late 50s pure wizard, a late 70s pure empath, an early 20s THW warrior, and a late 20s pure sorcerer.

[Wheelerm]

Thanks for doing this, by the way!!!

[DCSL]

Why are we testing Dex? Somehow I think that will make her grumpy.

Also, Dude, I have a whip blade you can totally use. IM me or PM me sometime.

I'm pleased that you mentioned me. Especially since I was initially displeased that this thread didn't turn out to be about me.

[Whirlin]

Well, we can test you too... but first we need to kill you, and then try to molest your phantom and see how long it is before you get testy.

But... been thinking about this... and there are three possible conclusions:
1) The DEX mod is weapon based, and it's not a constant DEX/4 Divisor
2) The Phantom Damage is capped per weapon type.
3) The Phantom Damage is capped per target's armor type. (example: 1/2 crit staging for some of those TH weapons)

1 is not mutually exclusive from 2 & 3.
1 is tested by having another character repeat all tests (yay!)
3 is tested by targeting gobs with cloth and/or Brig rather than light/double leather.
Outcome 2 is kind of the residual outcome if tests for 1 and 3 come back inconclusive or not correlative.

[Buckwheet]

For thrown weapons, I would just try one weapon that you know already has a dex bonus and see if it matches. I believe you can hurl almost anything and the only thing really impacted would be round time.

[Whirlin]

I got completely different results for 1H versus 2H on Katanas and Bastard swords though... so I don't think the correlation is there.

Also, my longbow testing just showed exactly 9 Phantom Damage against leather (posted on OP). The importance of this is that there's no whole number divisor that can yield a +9 phantom damage bonus when I have a +40 Dex Bonus. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe it's based on the armor, and max crit staging. If I can get 10 phantom damage on Rigid leather, that would prove that it's dependent on armor

[Buckwheet]

Well...I was just meaning you can hurl a maul and a dagger. Do you want to compile a secondary list for all those weapon types?

[Whirlin]

Nah, I'll just do the 6 thrown weapons on Krakii, and maybe handaxes and daggers, as they're common hurlers also.

[Buckwheet]

Spear 1handed. Dunno if you want additional logs.

With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a skull-etched vultite spear into flight.
You throw a skull-etched vultite spear at an Ithzir janissary!
AS: +516 vs DS: +319 with AvD: +18 + d100 roll: +100 = +315
... and hit for 80 points of damage!
Amazing shot through the Ithzir janissary's nose enters the brain!
The Ithzir janissary falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
Bad angle. The vultite spear fails to stick in an Ithzir janissary.
Roundtime: 4 sec.


With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a skull-etched vultite spear into flight.
You throw a skull-etched vultite spear at an Ithzir janissary!
AS: +516 vs DS: +264 with AvD: +18 + d100 roll: +26 = +296
... and hit for 70 points of damage!
Deep slash to the Ithzir janissary's neck severs an artery!
The Ithzir janissary chokes to death on her own blood.
The Ithzir janissary falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The vultite spear is deflected to one side, sailing to the ground.
Roundtime: 4 sec.

With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a skull-etched vultite spear into flight.
You throw a skull-etched vultite spear at an Ithzir seer!
AS: +524 vs DS: +265 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +36 = +323
... and hit for 98 points of damage!
Amazing shot through the Ithzir seer's nose enters the brain!
The Ithzir seer falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The opalescent aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The deep blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The Ithzir seer no longer bristles with energy.
The dim aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The vultite spear is deflected to one side, sailing to the ground.
Roundtime: 4 sec.

Dexterity (DEX): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)

[Buckwheet]

Handaxe:


With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a glowing black francisca into flight.
You throw a glowing black francisca at a war griffin!
AS: +557 vs DS: +347 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +81 = +323
... and hit for 91 points of damage!
Mighty swing separates head from shoulders.
The war griffin crashes to the ground, motionless.
The black francisca flips over, landing behind a war griffin.
Roundtime: 4 sec.


With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a glowing black francisca into flight.
You throw a glowing black francisca at an Ithzir seer!
AS: +557 vs DS: +271 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +29 = +346
... and hit for 105 points of damage!
Gruesome slash opens the Ithzir seer's forehead!
Grey matter spills forth!
The Ithzir seer falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The opalescent aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The deep blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The Ithzir seer no longer bristles with energy.
The dim aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The light blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.

Dexterity (DEX): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)

[Buckwheet]

Javelin:

With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a long-shafted rolaren javelin into flight.
You throw a long-shafted rolaren javelin at an Ithzir adept!
AS: +552 vs DS: +374 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +40 = +245
... and hit for 85 points of damage!
Strike to the eye penetrates skull, ocular fluid sprays widely!
The Ithzir adept falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The Ithzir adept no longer bristles with energy.
The glowing specks of energy surrounding an Ithzir adept suddenly shoot off in all directions, then quickly fade away.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves an Ithzir adept.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an Ithzir adept.
An Ithzir adept becomes solid again.
The rolaren javelin is lodged in an Ithzir adept's right eye!
Roundtime: 4 sec.

With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a long-shafted rolaren javelin into flight.
You throw a long-shafted rolaren javelin at an Ithzir seer!
AS: +552 vs DS: +276 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +96 = +399
... and hit for 116 points of damage!
Incredible shot to the eye penetrates deep into skull!
The Ithzir seer whispers, "Ra dro, Te lothre on ka nuko," then collapses.
The opalescent aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The deep blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The Ithzir seer no longer bristles with energy.
The dim aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
An Ithzir seer seems to lose an aura of confidence.
The light blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The powerful look leaves an Ithzir seer.
The rolaren javelin is deflected to one side, sailing to the ground.

With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a long-shafted rolaren javelin into flight.
You throw a long-shafted rolaren javelin at an Ithzir herald!
AS: +552 vs DS: +392 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +27 = +209
... and hit for 45 points of damage!
Attack punctures the eye and connects with something really vital!
The Ithzir herald clutches at her wounds as she falls, the life fading from her eyes.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves an Ithzir herald.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an Ithzir herald.
The silvery luminescence fades from around an Ithzir herald.
The bright luminescence fades from around an Ithzir herald.
Lacking the force and angle to lodge in an Ithzir herald, the rolaren javelin simply falls.



Dexterity (DEX): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)

[Aluvius]

Thanks for posting up all of these mechanics threads Whirlin, its appreciated!

[Whirlin]

Hmm... this one is odd...

You nock a wooden arrow in your composite bow.
You fire a wooden arrow at a mountain snowcat!
AS: +104 vs DS: +24 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +49 = +154
... and hit for 29 points of damage!
Strike to the chest breaks a rib!
Lacking the force and angle to lodge in a mountain snowcat, the wooden arrow simply falls.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
RANK 2 CHEST PUNCTURE: Damage: 10 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: bow against AvD: 25, d100 Roll: 49, Endroll: 154, Total Damage: 29

Raw dmg: 19
Crit dmg: 10
Total dmg: 29
Armor crit divisor: 5, None
Max crit rank: 3 [trunc (19/5)]
Actual crit rank: 2
Phaseout of Crit rank 2: Rank 5 (25 raw)
Max Phantom Damage Potental:<6

However... The damage calculation is rounded, but Raw Damage calculation appears truncated, which would result in Raw Damage being 18, thus the max phantom damage potential being <7... which is still 1 less than anticipated.
I don't think I'm going to use the snowcats anymore, they may have awkward mechanics.

[rolfard]

what if dex bonus offers phantom weighting when that stat is higher than another

[Whirlin]

what if dex bonus offers phantom weighting when that stat is higher than another

Stahp it.

[lordsmo]

Or DEX weighting could be variable, the way padding is, but the way regular crit weighting isn't....

[Whirlin]

Or DEX weighting could be variable, the way padding is, but the way regular crit weighting isn't....

I haven't found any evidence of variable application of phantom weighting against constant armor groups. The first page examples are the maxes and minimums after about an hour per weapons... alright, some minimums weren't gathered on the first go, but the comment stands that those were the maximums observed, everything else was within expected deviations, the max/min outliers were highlighted.

I read up a little bit on the variable crit padding thing that you referenced, and I noticed something that I had neglected... If you're wearing crit padded robes (for instance), and you take 5 raw damage, you're gonna have a rank 1 crit, even though padding would reduce it to 0... Therefore, snowcats likely have natural padding, and are poor candidates for further testing... which seems to be a more obvious solution.

However, as I highlighted in my last post, I do need to go back and do the DFs for each swing, as shown damage is rounded, and raw damage for crit determination is not (or maybe it is... and we just didn't know it)

[Donquix]

It's kind of cool, and kind of asinine, at the same time how sometimes needlessly complex GS combat is.

every other game: base damage + some small random factor + damage stat * some ratio

gs: base damage + damage stat/trunc(4)floor()modulo(19)round(229389,2)+the temperature outside/your longitude*14+(some factor dependent on alignment) + 1....

[lordsmo]

Please continue the good work. If I find myself suddenly able to refrain from compulsively grinding bounties for any appreciable portion of my spare time I will attempt to help.

Edit to add: also, it seems likely that if weighting were variable you would have proved it by now by generating at least one anomolous pair of "no less than X points and no more than Y points but X > Y" results. Not conclusively disproven, but certainly looking unlikely at this point.

One last edit: Just looked over that last mountain snowcat shot, and if snowcats don't have any padding, then that "no more than 7" shot plus your earlier "no less than 9" shot could indicate variable weighting.... Or it could indicate a fixed DEX:weighting ratio that is variable across armor groups. Or it could just be that the snowcat has crit padding.

[Whirlin]

Please continue the good work. If I find myself suddenly able to refrain from compulsively grinding bounties for any appreciable portion of my spare time I will attempt to help.

Edit to add: also, it seems likely that if weighting were variable you would have proved it by now by generating at least one anomolous pair of "no less than X points and no more than Y points but X > Y" results. Not conclusively disproven, but certainly looking unlikely at this point.

One last edit: Just looked over that last mountain snowcat shot, and if snowcats don't have any padding, then that "no more than 7" shot plus your earlier "no less than 9" shot could indicate variable weighting.... Or it could indicate a fixed DEX:weighting ratio that is variable across armor groups. Or it could just be that the snowcat has crit padding.

If it was 1 point of natural padding, which I think would be likely for a beast with robe armor class, it would be an anticipated result. That's why for now, I'm just going to stay clear of snowcats, until I can get conclusive results on a different armor subgroup.

At a single point of natural padding, that would put the results into the anticipated range. My hypothesis is that Max=Trunc((Armor Crit Divisor * Weapon Max))... which would put the results for bows at a 1.5x Crit Divisor max Phantom damage amount... which would explain the max of 9 on cloth armor, and also easilly explain results for things like the Military Pick (max out at 50% crit tier) and Runestaff (Max at 1x crit tier).

Of course, then if it maxes out at a low value per crit divisor... the next task would be determining the DEX Bonus/?? until the limit.

[Whirlin]

For now though... my Lumnis just reset... and I'd really like Riltus' input on the thread before I continue to do more testing...

Riltus is definitely the most knowledgeable mechanics person that I know on game mechanics. I'd like his Quality Assurance on my methodology and existing work before I continue to gather more data... Plus, I have XXX to burn.

This is also much more interesting than writing a Sorc guide... and is better received. And honestly, easier.

Perhaps someone better at coding could take a look at growing Gib's Crit Type Tracker to help extract some of this data a little easier though, I'm doing a ton of mental math:
Ok... that big number is the damage,
subtract out the crit damage from Gib's Crit_Type_Tracker
there's the raw damage
Subtract out the Crit Divisor * Crit Tier from the Raw Damage
What's the remainder?
If negative, there's phantom damage!
Is it higher than what I've seen before?
If no, swing again
If Yes, copy/paste, show work on this thread
If Remainder is positive, is it within normal critical randomization range?
Yes? Swing again
No, Copy/Paste, show work on this thread.

Fortunately, after a couple hundred swings, you kinda know what you're looking for:
"I need to hit for 20 raw damage, but only do a Rank 1 critical to show a new minimum potential phantom damage number"
"I need 10 phantom damage to show a new maximum phantom damage number"

[Donquix]

For now though... my Lumnis just reset... and I'd really like Riltus' input on the thread before I continue to do more testing...

Riltus is definitely the most knowledgeable mechanics person that I know on game mechanics. I'd like his Quality Assurance on my methodology and existing work before I continue to gather more data...

I have a theory that even if Riltus comes up with an incorrect assertion on mechanics, the game code spontaneously changes to conform to his findings.

[Riltus]

I haven't found any evidence of variable application of phantom weighting against constant armor groups. The first page examples are the maxes and minimums after about an hour per weapons... alright, some minimums weren't gathered on the first go, but the comment stands that those were the maximums observed, everything else was within expected deviations, the max/min outliers were highlighted.

I read up a little bit on the variable crit padding thing that you referenced, and I noticed something that I had neglected... If you're wearing crit padded robes (for instance), and you take 5 raw damage, you're gonna have a rank 1 crit, even though padding would reduce it to 0... Therefore, snowcats likely have natural padding, and are poor candidates for further testing... which seems to be a more obvious solution.

However, as I highlighted in my last post, I do need to go back and do the DFs for each swing, as shown damage is rounded, and raw damage for crit determination is not (or maybe it is... and we just didn't know it)

Both raw damage and (raw damage + phantom damage) round normally.

Initially, I had only done some cursory dex weighting testing. I was only looking to see if full dex weighting was applied. I've done a bit more testing and have some interesting results. In this brief second go-round there is some evidence that there may be a tie-in with weapon and profession. Obviously, more extensive testing will be needed.

Ranger: Dex bonus 29, max weighting 7 [trunc(29/4)]

Ranger w/ handaxe: No weighting
Ranger w/ longsword: 3 pts weighting
Ranger w/dagger: 7 pts weighting (full weighting)

Warrior w/handaxe: Weighting

Bard w/morning star: No weighting

Rogue closed fist: Full weighting

I used several different targets for the ranger/handaxe combo and didn't observe any weighting.

Ranger (Dex bonus 29) w/handaxe:

You swing a handaxe at a hobgoblin!
AS: +154 vs DS: +47 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +58 = +197
... and hit for 36 points of damage!
Bones in left arm crack.

DF: .300
Raw dmg: 29
Crit dmg: 7
Total dmg: 36
Crit rank: 2
Crit div: 6 (light leather with arm/leg greaves)
Max weighting: 0

Note: With 1 pt of weighting the minimum crit would be a rank 3.

Ranger (Dex bonus 29) w/longsword:

You swing a longsword at a hobgoblin!
AS: +115 vs DS: +32 with AvD: +42 + d100 roll: +7 = +132
... and hit for 18 points of damage!
Strike pierces thigh!
The hobgoblin is knocked to the ground!

DF: .275
Raw dmg: 9
Crit dmg: 9
Total dmg: 18
Crit rank: 2
Crit divisor: 6 (light leather with arm and leg greaves)
Min weighting: 3

You swing a longsword at a hobgoblin!
AS: +154 vs DS: +21 with AvD: +37 + d100 roll: +69 = +239
... and hit for 36 points of damage!
Neck vertebrae snap.
The hobgoblin is stunned!

DF: .225
Raw dmg: 31
Crit dmg: 5
Total dmg: 36
Crit rank: 2
Crit div: 7 (brig)
Max weighting: 3

Note: With 4 pts of weighting the minimum crit would be a rank 3

Ranger (Dex bonus 29) w/dagger:

You swing a dagger at a hobgoblin!
AS: +115 vs DS: +79 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +95 = +154
... and hit for 26 points of damage!
Loud *crack* as the hobgoblin's sternum breaks!
The hobgoblin is stunned!

DF: .200
Raw dmg: 11
Crit dmg: 15
Total dmg: 26
Crit divisor: 6 (light leather with arm and leg greaves)
Crit rank: 3
Minimum weighting: 7

Note: With 11 raw damage, a minimum a 7 pts of weighting are required for a rank 3 crit outcome.


Mark

[Whirlin]

Well, I can continue to do the tests, and re-preform dagger and longsword tests... Of course, once I kill Lumnis and such.

The result of 7 with the dagger seems a bit off to me... it would make much more sense to see it max out at 9, which would be in line with ASG Divisor *1.5, in line with archery. That'll be top priority to retest when I get time, to see if I can get Phantom = 9.

3/6/9 values just seem to line up a bit too well with fractions of the ASG divisor for me to think that they're arbitrary limits due to our DEX or due to the weapon itself... I stand firm with my theory.

Thank you for doing a quick assessment of my work so far... I will continue with my tests, and hopefully we'll be able to determine the solution... .... ... in a few years.

[rolfard]

do brawling AND UAC fists AND UAC weapons ;)

[Riltus]

Well, I can continue to do the tests, and re-preform dagger and longsword tests... Of course, once I kill Lumnis and such.

The result of 7 with the dagger seems a bit off to me... it would make much more sense to see it max out at 9, which would be in line with ASG Divisor *1.5, in line with archery. That'll be top priority to retest when I get time, to see if I can get Phantom = 9.

3/6/9 values just seem to line up a bit too well with fractions of the ASG divisor for me to think that they're arbitrary limits due to our DEX or due to the weapon itself... I stand firm with my theory.

Thank you for doing a quick assessment of my work so far... I will continue with my tests, and hopefully we'll be able to determine the solution... .... ... in a few years.

The 7 pts of weighting with the dagger is the minimum, not the maximum. This was an HE Ranger w/29 Dex bonus.


You swing a short sword at a hobgoblin!
AS: +84 vs DS: +27 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +53 = +146
... and hit for 18 points of damage!
Torn muscle in the hobgoblin's left leg!
Your short sword fades some.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
RANK 1 LEFT LEG CRUSH: Damage: 7 Status Effect: 0 Wounds: Rank 1
Weapon used: sword against AvD: 36, d100 Roll: 53, Endroll: 146, Total Damage: 18

Raw dmg: 11
Crit dmg: 7
Total dmg: 18
Armor crit divisor: 6 Light Leather w/ Greaves
Max crit rank w/o weighting: 1 [trunc(11/6)]
Actual crit rank: 1
Required to not be Crit Rank 1: Rank 3
Maximum Phantom Crit Damage: <7

DE Rogue (DEX bonus 35):

You swing a short sword at a hobgoblin!
AS: +94 vs DS: +33 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +71 = +168
... and hit for 33 points of damage!
Left kneecap smashed into pulp.
The hobgoblin is knocked to the ground!
The hobgoblin is stunned!

DF: .240
Raw dmg: 16 (68 * .240)
Crit dmg: 17
Crit rank: 4 (Crush, left leg)
Crit div: 6 (light leather w/leg greaves)
Minimum weighting: 8

You swing a short sword at a giant rat!
AS: +47 vs DS: +14 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +60 = +133
... and hit for 32 points of damage!
Strike to abdomen punctures stomach!
The giant rat collapses to the ground, emits a final squeal, and dies.

DF: .350
Raw dmg: 12 (11.55 round up)
Crit dmg: 20
Crit rank: 4 (Puncture, abdomen)
Crit div: 5
Minimum weighting: 8

Also

DE Rogue (DEX bonus 35)

Jackblade: 8 minimum
Fist-scythe: 8 minimum

Mark

[Riltus]

Additional data showing 10 pts of weighting (closed fist) w/40 dex bonus and 2 pts of weighting with morning star.

Halfling Warrior (DEX bonus 40)

CLOSED FIST:

You swing a closed fist at a giant rat!
AS: +67 vs DS: +4 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +61 = +149
... and hit for 20 points of damage!
Respectable shot to the back.
The giant rat is stunned!

DF: 0.100
Raw dmg: 5
Crit dmg: 15
Crit rank: 3 (Crush, back)
Crit divisor: 5
Minimum weighting: 10

MORNING STAR:

You swing a morning star at a giant rat!
AS: +56 vs DS: +4 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +68 = +153
... and hit for 48 points of damage!
Damaging strike to chest, several ribs shattered!
The giant rat collapses to the ground, emits a final squeal, and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

DF: .425
Raw dmg: 23
Crit dmg: 25
Crit rank: 5 (Puncture, chest)
Crit div: 5
MIN weighting: 2


You swing a morning star at a giant rat!
AS: +45 vs DS: +2 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +53 = +129
... and hit for 17 points of damage!
Blow to the head causes the giant rat's ears to ring!
The giant rat collapses to the ground, emits a final squeal, and dies.

DF: .425
Raw dmg: 12
Crit dmg: 5
Crit rank: 1 (Crush, head)
Crit divisor: 5
MAX weighting: 2

Mark

[Whirlin]

I'll try to repeat the +40 dex on my wizard, and see if we can get a different value for closed fist maximum... it may be something simple, like +2 for square, +1 for semi, +0 for pure...

I dunno... Still working on Lumnis today though.

[TheBastardOfStark]

Necro. Any more work ever get done on this?

[gilchristr]

This thread was discussed on lnet tonight. I don't recommend anyone choose a weapon type based on this threads, its super speculative.

Also, I don't think the theory is likely to be correct ... I don't really know what testing could be done to prove or disprove the theory. So, let me offer reasoning combined with what the do know about weapons (i.e what is from the official documentation) ... I think the weapons are balanced around the non-secret features of AvD, DF, and weapon speed in seconds. If they were balanced around a fourth secret factor, one would expect to see many "good" weapons that didn't not appear to be balanced around AvD, DF, and weapon speed in seconds. If you think this theory is true, then I would start collecting evidence around popular weapons that do not appear to be balanced. I am not sure what those would be (again I don't think this theory is likely to be correct).

For instance, if there is a first weapon that appears to be OP based on the known factors (Avd, DF, weapon speed), and a second weapon that appears to be UP based on the known factors, then start looking to those two weapons for an undocumented point of balance.

[Whirlin]

This thread was discussed on lnet tonight. I don't recommend anyone choose a weapon type based on this threads, its super speculative.

Also, I don't think the theory is likely to be correct ... I don't really know what testing could be done to prove or disprove the theory. So, let me offer reasoning combined with what the do know about weapons (i.e what is from the official documentation) ... I think the weapons are balanced around the non-secret features of AvD, DF, and weapon speed in seconds. If they were balanced around a fourth secret factor, one would expect to see many "good" weapons that didn't not appear to be balanced around AvD, DF, and weapon speed in seconds. If you think this theory is true, then I would start collecting evidence around popular weapons that do not appear to be balanced. I am not sure what those would be (again I don't think this theory is likely to be correct).

For instance, if there is a first weapon that appears to be OP based on the known factors (Avd, DF, weapon speed), and a second weapon that appears to be UP based on the known factors, then start looking to those two weapons for an undocumented point of balance.

While I agree that this should not be the basis for decision making yet, I have a problem with stating that the results are 'super speculative', as there has not been any NEW proposed correlation drawn between DEX, Weapon type, and potential for phantom damage. The previous guidance on phantom dex weighting was DEX/4, which I have subsequently proven is INACCURATE based on the results of the first few pages of testing. This thread was simply an aggregation of testing of various weapon forms that I performed at ridiculous levels of DEX to compare one weapon versus another. Many more data points are needed to draw upon a conclusive result of testing, which do not exist yet.

I'm not sure what you're arguing is incorrect. There's objective evidence of crit weighting being added to attacks, that vary per weapon type. Every single post in the first few pages where I have the AS/DS calculations prove the existence or absence of phantom crit weighting.

Absolute phantom crit weighting values were obtained through hundreds of attacks (Thank you wizard haste), but the only ones that were posted in the OP were the two required values to zero in on a single potential outcome on a specific phantom weighting value.

[gilchristr]

I for one would be interested in hearing from Riltus about this testing:

Ranger w/ handaxe: No weighting
Warrior w/handaxe: Weighting


In regard to the height/size system. Was the warrior that did the testing the same height/size as the ranger. And what were the targets being tested. For instance, was the ranger a giantman swinging a handaxe at hobgoblinss, and the warrior a halfling swinging the handaxe at hobgoblins? You get the idea.


EDIT - interestingly I went back and read the thread and it seems that Riltus used a halfling warrior and a DE rogue for testing. I don't know what race, i.e., the height/size, of the ranger who didnt realize phantom damage from his dex bonus (whereas the halfling warrior did), however, and would be interested to know!

EDIT2 - skimmed again, the ranger was a half elf. So Ritlus found no phatom damage from dex by a half elf attacking a hobgoblin with a handaxe, but he did find phantom damage from dex by a halfling attacking a hobgobilin with a handaxe. Ritlus speculated that the difference could be related to some sort of profession factor, and I have no idea on that, and I don't meant to discount that possibility by speculating other possible grounds for the difference he found there, i.e. the height/reach system which as discussed in another thread here on the PC has a surprising amount of granularity accounting not just for the height of the attacker/defender but also the size of the weapon used. A simple enough experiment would to repeat the test on waraxe, this time using the same size warrior and ranger when attacking the hobgoblin.


Anyone more familiar with the height size system mind chiming in on the relative sizes of halflings, half elfs, and hobgoblins? Also, what is the "height" of a halfling with a waraxe (if you will, again I am referred to the incredibly granularized height system from another thread) vs. a hobgoblin? here is that other thread by the way:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?96550-Research-The-Effects-of-Creature-Height-on-Melee-Aiming/page5

[Whirlin]

That is correct... There may also be variations based on whether or not a soft leather versus Rigid leather armor hobgoblin was the target of testing. As I stated above, the objective was to establish a baseline which can further be evaluated with additional variables. The conclusion of the initial round of testing proves that Phantom Weighting Exists, and that it IS NOT EVEN for all weapons of a given weapon type. Adding in an additional caveat of Race and profession is a bit overload.

I'm not sure what evidence you have that suggests that the height system is in any way impacting phantom weighting. The results of the height system was emphasis on potential targets that could be hit based on size versus size, and/or impacts to size based CMAN. Furthermore, values of phantom dex appeared consistently applied, regardless of target location prior to crit randomization, not subjective to the target body part hit.

I don't think you really understand how science and discovery works... Take an evaluation with a single variable, then add one variable at a time and compare for correlation. You don't try to simultaneously test 10000 variables.

[Whirlin]

At this point, I recommend if you're so dissatisfied with the results of the testing, to go out and repeat the efforts under the various size, race, and profession variables you have highlighted, posting the swing results, and evaluating the target's armor with crit randomization factored in. You'll get an idea for how painstakingly long it takes to test this stuff.

[Latrinsorm]

This thread was discussed on lnet tonight. I don't recommend anyone choose a weapon type based on this threads, its super speculative. Also, I don't think the theory is likely to be correct ... I don't really know what testing could be done to prove or disprove the theory. So, let me offer reasoning combined with what the do know about weapons (i.e what is from the official documentation) ... I think the weapons are balanced around the non-secret features of AvD, DF, and weapon speed in seconds. If they were balanced around a fourth secret factor, one would expect to see many "good" weapons that didn't not appear to be balanced around AvD, DF, and weapon speed in seconds. If you think this theory is true, then I would start collecting evidence around popular weapons that do not appear to be balanced. I am not sure what those would be (again I don't think this theory is likely to be correct). For instance, if there is a first weapon that appears to be OP based on the known factors (Avd, DF, weapon speed), and a second weapon that appears to be UP based on the known factors, then start looking to those two weapons for an undocumented point of balance.I don't think weapon types are or are intended to be balanced in any way. For instance, when would you ever use anything but a falchion or morning star for open attacks in their respective weapon classes?

[Riltus]

I for one would be interested in hearing from Riltus about this testing:

Ranger w/ handaxe: No weighting
Warrior w/handaxe: Weighting


In regard to the height/size system. Was the warrior that did the testing the same height/size as the ranger. And what were the targets being tested. For instance, was the ranger a giantman swinging a handaxe at hobgoblinss, and the warrior a halfling swinging the handaxe at hobgoblins? You get the idea.


EDIT - interestingly I went back and read the thread and it seems that Riltus used a halfling warrior and a DE rogue for testing. I don't know what race, i.e., the height/size, of the ranger who didnt realize phantom damage from his dex bonus (whereas the halfling warrior did), however, and would be interested to know!

EDIT2 - skimmed again, the ranger was a half elf. So Ritlus found no phatom damage from dex by a half elf attacking a hobgoblin with a handaxe, but he did find phantom damage from dex by a halfling attacking a hobgobilin with a handaxe. Ritlus speculated that the difference could be related to some sort of profession factor, and I have no idea on that, and I don't meant to discount that possibility by speculating other possible grounds for the difference he found there, i.e. the height/reach system which as discussed in another thread here on the PC has a surprising amount of granularity accounting not just for the height of the attacker/defender but also the size of the weapon used. A simple enough experiment would to repeat the test on waraxe, this time using the same size warrior and ranger when attacking the hobgoblin.


Anyone more familiar with the height size system mind chiming in on the relative sizes of halflings, half elfs, and hobgoblins? Also, what is the "height" of a halfling with a waraxe (if you will, again I am referred to the incredibly granularized height system from another thread) vs. a hobgoblin? here is that other thread by the way:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?96550-Research-The-Effects-of-Creature-Height-on-Melee-Aiming/page5

I should have edited that post. Additional testing with the ranger/handaxe combo resulted in dex weighting. I don't think race, profession or height/weight are factors. Results indicated that heavier, more damaging weapons have Dex weighting caps but all weapons that I tested demonstrated a minimum of +2 pts of weighting including claidhmores.

Mark

[gilchristr]

Hey Ritlus good to hear from you man! Interesting that you eventually found dex weighting on the ranger/handaxe combo.

[gilchristr]

The original post in this thread has a column that states "dex bonus"... and for several of the weapons "no" is listed.

But ritlus just said "but all weapons that I tested demonstrated a minimum of +2 pts of weighting including claidhmores." It would be awesome if you could clarify the original post with the most current information.

[Donquix]

We were able to get the exact formula on discord the other night btw. The thing always missed in testing is there is a penalty based on weapon speed that can be counteracted by strength.

melee weapons:
(DEX BONUS - (STR BONUS - weapon speed factor)) /4

weapon speed factor = summation(weapon base speed + 1 [- 3 if you have an open hand ]) * 2

open hand is either a "real" empty left hand with a one handed weapon (i.e. no shield, no twc), or the empty hand from a THW/POLE also applies.

So for a lance the speed factor is: summation(9 + 1 - 3) * 2 = summation(7) * 2 = (7 +6 +5 +4 +3 +2 +1) * 2 = 28 * 2 = 56

if you have 56 STR bonus you can get the full (dex bonus / 4) weighting for a lance.

for ranged / thrown (lol buckle up) the phantom weighting is derived from...
((Int bonus + Wis bonus) / 6)
...because reasons


also the phantom con padding was revealed:
con bonus / 6



https://discordapp.com/channels/226045346399256576/532373273816858636/692610848052609126
a lot of chatter but formulas around there

[gilchristr]

Wow, I had observed dex bons / 4 many many years ago. It seemed quite simple

But I was testing with a max strength giantman, so there you go.

[Donquix]

Wow, I had observed dex bons / 4 many many years ago. It seemed quite simple

But I was testing with a max strength giantman, so there you go.

Yup. We definitely had conflicting information specifically around larger weapons and....well, there you go.

For people curious here are the STR bonus thresholds required for max dex weighting. (assuming the open hand "bonus" take the weapon speed to 0, if it can....i guess swing some sick shortsowrds single handed with you 0 str bonus)

base speed |one handed str |open hand str
1| 6 |2
2| 12 |2
3| 20 |2
4| 30 |6
5| 42 |12
6| 56 |20
7| 72 |30
8| 90 |42
9| 110 |56

[gilchristr]

Did they say anything about the order of operations with the phantom crit padding?

Like if you have CER 10 armor, and 10 points from con bonus, is that effectively the same as CER 20 armor, or is better than 20 CER armor due to two "stages" of randomization?