warriors and spells

[Battlerager]

I have a capped warrior I was thinking of fixskilling to have some more spells. I wanted to get 107 deep blues. How much redux will I lose and is it enough to even notice?

[Whirlin]

That question is impossible to answer.

1) We don't know the starting point of your redux. We don't know your training for how many redux points you have.
2) The Redux equation isn't 100% accurate... There's still a good amount of guesswork.

Regardless, it comes down to: Are you having problems with TD and spells, or physical attacks? Getting up to 107 will trade physical defenses for magical defenses. If you're getting infinitely more raped by spells, then it may be a good decision... but to quantify may very well be impossible.

But, it may help us further work on the redux equation if you want to determine current redux, fixskills, and then calculate current redux again, and report on the difference.

[Aganii]

Just curious, how many spells do capped/post cap warriors typically get? I've entertained the thought of having up to 425 if I ever have extreme amounts of post cap training regardless of the impact to redux but currently I'm thinking I might be able to some spells pre-cap as well.

[cwolff]

2) The Redux equation isn't 100% accurate... There's still a good amount of guesswork.

Does the trainer spreadsheet do a fair job calculating redux? I was looking at it last night and noticed that the numbers would rise and fall as I added/removed spells.

[Ardwen]

entirely depends on the warrior, some have a lot of spells, some have none
post cap xp is also a huge variable, since some warriors are multiples of cap at this pioint

[tallkris3]

I know at least one warrior out there with 425, but he's 3x+ cap

[Buckwheet]

Sam did it for a while and didn't care for it I believe.

[Methais]

107 is a very easily accessible spell. Have someone imbed a handful of high mana ranger rods and problem solved.

[Valyss]

I know at least one warrior out there with 425, but he's 3x+ cap

interesting! any idea what the drop in observed redux was?

[Suppressed Poet]

107 is a very easily accessible spell. Have someone imbed a handful of high mana ranger rods and problem solved.

This.

Just doesn't seem worth the training post cap for the purpose of this spell. Get some imbeds, find some scrolls, simply ask for them in the center of whatever town you are in. It's a whole lot cheaper and you won't have the drawbacks to redux. You would be much better served by getting some miu/as or even mana sharing.

[Shaps]

Not a combat helpful ability, but:

I would think most warriors would learn up to at least 404? Never really seen warriors comment on learning picking/disarming, but I think post cap it would be a very beneficial/great down time/helpful ability to use. There could be plenty that do this, I just haven't seen much discussion on it.

[Archigeek]

107 is a very easily accessible spell. Have someone imbed a handful of high mana ranger rods and problem solved.

It depends on where you hunt. I hunt the rift, and for a long time I just used imbeds and scrolls, which are even easier, but every plane in the rift has a minimum of one creature that dispells, some have 2-3. And the major dispell can mean you lose 5-7 spells in one shot. So being able to recast minor spirituals 101, 103, 104, 105 and 107 is pretty helpful.

By the time you're post-cap, you probably have enough armor training that your failure rate is fairly low, or at least it can be if you want it to be. Training through 107 won't have much of an affect on your redux; I trained to that point and don't even wear padded armor and get by fairly well. There are others with much more spell training than I have, and they seem to do ok too.

[Ardwen]

since warriors in general arent combat casting, I'd imagine goals would be 430 or 120, the field cast stuff would seem to hard to cast effectively, as would stuff like 130

[Archigeek]

It's easy enough to train down your minor spiritual circle to minimum penalty in full plate, which is 20%. This is a very satisfactory number for defensive spells.

Regarding training to 404, some do this for that reason, but most train the elementals for the defensive spells. When you get to higher levels, the locks are tough enough that bashing them takes too long for my taste.

[Ardwen]

I meant attack not defensive combat spells, 20 percent is huge for that

[Shaps]

[QUOTE=Archigeek; Regarding training to 404, some do this for that reason, but most train the elementals for the defensive spells. When you get to higher levels, the locks are tough enough that bashing them takes too long for my taste.[/QUOTE]

Never been over 70, and I know the boxes get hard at cap, but is 2x Pick/Disarm with 403/404 able to open any boxes with a lockpick? I would think you'd at least see any traps with Disarm/Perception.

Bashing takes a really long time even when mastered?

[stormcrow]

I did the 2x disarming as a warrior for a while. I was able to find most but the very hard traps. Disarming them was another deal. Most at cap were too hard for me to try without killing myself. Personally it's not worth the trouble or the points. Honesty, with the lack of pickers around I wish they would redo bashing so that it would work on more trapped boxes. (excluding say a boomer) But you should be able to bash a scarab to death. jmho. I think the days of the classes getting pissed off about other class infringing on their skills are over. Just like I think Paladins should be able to resurrect more.


Never been over 70, and I know the boxes get hard at cap, but is 2x Pick/Disarm with 403/404 able to open any boxes with a lockpick? I would think you'd at least see any traps with Disarm/Perception.

Bashing takes a really long time even when mastered?

[cwolff]

I did the 2x disarming as a warrior for a while. I was able to find most but the very hard traps. Disarming them was another deal.

I don't think a rogue can reliably pick at cap with 2x in these skills, even self spelled

[stormcrow]

I don't think a rogue can reliably pick at cap with 2x in these skills, even self spelled

Yes my capped rogue is 3x pick/disarm and spelled and still struggles with some boxes. Not so much the traps, but with some locks. As a warrior you'd just need the trap part and it would be very hard 2x with spells.

[Donquix]

Yes my capped rogue is 3x pick/disarm and spelled and still struggles with some boxes. Not so much the traps, but with some locks. As a warrior you'd just need the trap part and it would be very hard 2x with spells.

Even if it's not super helpful for your own capped needs, it's not a bad side benefit to have to help out others / get some free exps while you're resting. It would be a far, far off goal for me post cap but, not awful to have something to do for other players besides assess :D (and i guess make sheaths)

[Archigeek]

Never been over 70, and I know the boxes get hard at cap, but is 2x Pick/Disarm with 403/404 able to open any boxes with a lockpick? I would think you'd at least see any traps with Disarm/Perception.

Bashing takes a really long time even when mastered?

2x pick/disarm with 403/404 is absolutely not able to open any box. Can open probably quite a few of them, maybe even most? I don't know, I'm not a locksmith, but where I hunt, I bring as many of my boxes as I can to 3x trained in everything that helps, expert locksmiths, and they break picks on my locks.

And I think we're on the same page Ardwen, defensive spells make sense, offensive ones not to me.

[Methais]

2x pick/disarm will get most stuff at cap, but not all of it.

I can only 1x disarm and my max is like -310 with 404 or something like that. I'm at 119 ranks in picking now and with lore I can get locks in the -900s.

A 3x pick/disarm rogue with 303/404 can get everything. Only the hardest locks and traps that can be generated will present any problem, and even then all you need is a decent roll.

[tallkris3]

interesting! any idea what the drop in observed redux was?

I don't but his AS was stupid, nothing lived long enough to swing back at him.

[Riltus]

The redux spell penalty for a capped warrior with 7 ranks will be indiscernible. Even with 25 spell ranks the penalty is minor. For most results the actual critical rank taken will be the same.

Example for a typical capped warrior in plate armor:

Redux Factor with 0 spells: ~.570
Redux Factor with 25 spells: ~.510

How does this affect damage outcomes?

Weapon: Maul
Damage Factor: .300 vs plate
Endroll: 250
Endroll successs margin: 150

When calculating damage for critical rank determination, only 2/3rds of the RF is applied. This value reduces the weapon damage factor.

0 spell ranks:
1 - (.570 * 2/3) = .62
Reduced damage factor for crit rank determination: .300 * .62 = .186

25 spell ranks:
1 - (.510 * 2/3) = .66
Reduced DF: .300 * .66 = .198

With 0 spell ranks the maul's effective DF for crit rank determination is .186 and .198 with 25 spell ranks.

Phantom damage w/ 0 spell ranks

Endroll success margin: 150
Reduced DF: .186
Phantom damage: 150 * .186 = 27.9

Phantom damage w/ 25 spell ranks

Endroll success margin: 150
Reduced DF: .198
Phantom damage: 150 * .198 = 29.7

Since plate has an 11 critical divisor, the maximum critical rank in both scenarios is a Rank 2. trunc(28/11) vs trunc(30/11)

Assume that the actual unreduced critical damage is 7.
Unreduced raw damage: .300 * 150 = 45
Total unreduced damage: 45 + 7 = 52

With 0 spell ranks actual damage taken: 52 * (1 - .57) = 22
With 25 spell ranks actual damage taken: 52 * (1 - .51) = 25


Mark

[Methais]

The redux spell penalty for a capped warrior with 7 ranks will be indiscernible. Even with 25 spell ranks the penalty is minor. For most results the actual critical rank taken will be the same.

Example for a typical capped warrior in plate armor:

Redux Factor with 0 spells: ~.570
Redux Factor with 25 spells: ~.510

How does this affect damage outcomes?

Weapon: Maul
Damage Factor: .300 vs plate
Endroll: 250
Endroll successs margin: 150

When calculating damage for critical rank determination, only 2/3rds of the RF is applied. This value reduces the weapon damage factor.

0 spell ranks:
1 - (.570 * 2/3) = .62
Reduced damage factor for crit rank determination: .300 * .62 = .186

25 spell ranks:
1 - (.510 * 2/3) = .66
Reduced DF: .300 * .66 = .198

With 0 spell ranks the maul's effective DF for crit rank determination is .186 and .198 with 25 spell ranks.

Phantom damage w/ 0 spell ranks

Endroll success margin: 150
Reduced DF: .186
Phantom damage: 150 * .186 = 27.9

Phantom damage w/ 25 spell ranks

Endroll success margin: 150
Reduced DF: .198
Phantom damage: 150 * .198 = 29.7

Since plate has an 11 critical divisor, the maximum critical rank in both scenarios is a Rank 2. trunc(28/11) vs trunc(30/11)

Assume that the actual unreduced critical damage is 7.
Unreduced raw damage: .300 * 150 = 45
Total unreduced damage: 45 + 7 = 52

With 0 spell ranks actual damage taken: 52 * (1 - .57) = 22
With 25 spell ranks actual damage taken: 52 * (1 - .51) = 25


Mark

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a162/DoyleHargraves/firefly_zps6a309002.gif

[Jeril]

Sam did it for a while and didn't care for it I believe.

When Sam picked up 425 though, he gave up 3x dodge and some other things to get it.