Ticket purchasing script

[dgryphon]

If simu doesn't take steps towards curbing automated purchases of tickets for the rtcf event (see captcha) before the next batch goes on sale, I'll be releasing a ruby script to the public.

As yet, the script is untested on a live ticket release, but I'm hoping to pull together some volunteers from either platinum or to the lite version before the final ticket sale window.

You'll need ruby installed and one or two additional libraries to run the script. Then a basic text editor to input your account name and password. I'm traveling out of the country and not near my desktop (where it's located) or I'd probably release it to the masses today. Once I get back in two weeks I'll organize the release, probably stick it + instructions on the lich script repository.

I really dislike an uneven playing field, so I figure I'll introduce some equality into all future ticket releases.

Dgry

[Allereli]

are you trying to get yourself banned?

[Androidpk]

Sounds like it.

[Tgo01]

Why would he get banned?

[Tisket]

Yeah they can't punish someone for writing a script

[Androidpk]

A script that manipulates their website? I don't think they would be OK with that.

[Tgo01]

I thought he was just creating a script that automates the ticket purchasing process.

[Jace Solo]

Yet they haven't do anything to stop it from happening to date.

[Androidpk]

Solomon has said that they are monitoring for anything fishy going on.

[dgryphon]

Solomon has said that they are monitoring for anything fishy going on.

Anyone that actually understands the way internet communication works, understands that Solomon really had no idea what he was talking about with that comment. There's no way for a server to know that it's being contacted by a script versus a webrowser. It simply knows what it's told, IP and request. There's also no way to determine by the actions that it's a person versus a computer on the other end of the string. You can look at a server log and assume that regular interval refreshes/pings are created by a program, but you're just making an assumption, you're not basing it on fact.

The simplest fix for this problem is for them to implement some checks and balances from their side to authenticate a person at the end of the string. I'm not really sure what the resistance to that is, it's simple enough to do by anyone with a mediocre amount of web development experience, or an hour worth of google time.

Dgry

[m444w]

Solomon has said that they are monitoring for anything fishy going on.

Any programmer that isn't an imbecile would be virtually uncatchable at present.

The person(s) that were using spiders/bots before we're doing so in a manner that made them essentially act like 100 different people were attempting to sign up for a ticket.

Smart people only used a single thread, so they only appear to be one person (albeit a very quick person).

They need to add a humanity check to the form submission to have a chance at eliminating bots, but there are still several ways a person could establish an unfair advantage with a little ingenuity.

[Androidpk]

Belittling their knowledge and then threatening to do something if you don't get your way isn't the smartest approach.

[Bobmuhthol]

Sending a request to a server is not "manipulating" it. They're supposed to be able to run a server properly, not ask that people please not connect to it.

[tyrant-201]

I personally don't see a problem with it. If we're gong to have people who take as many different accounts as they can to get more stuff to sell or hoard, it provides an alternate option for people to use. Is it right? No. Neither of those instances are right, but if someone's offering a service to diversify the attendance it's alright by me. Even if they profit from it.

[Leloo]

And yet fishy or not people are still doing it. I emailed them about the automated purchasing and basically they just said "it is what it is" and that if they catch someone scalping they'll deal with it and yet I've still seen plenty of people selling accounts and nothing happens. It doesn't matter to Simu, script or not the same amount of tickets sell and they make the same amount of money. Even if players make a ruckus the players that merchant make Simu more money then the average player.

[Archigeek]

I think it was Ardwen who recommended the best solution: raffle the right to buy a ticket. Simple, a lot less stress for us and less stress for them.

[Mathari]

For anyone who cares, here's what Solomon said:


<<So what you are really saying is...there's an app for that!>>

If there is and we detect anyone using something like that to brute force the box office, said person(s) would have a permanent, one way ticket to the void.



Solomon

[Leloo]

From the start it should've been one ticket per PLAYER not per account. Making it per account doesn't limit anything as there are many players with more accounts then they know what to do with. The certain fact is that there are players that play the game to RP and like a normal person and may have one to two accounts and then there are players (No need to even drop any names we all know who they are) that play GS like it is their job and their life and have dozens of accounts and at every merchant event IG will have multiple characters (I remember waiting in line for ONE alteration and watching this player go through twice, log out those two and log in two more characters to get four alterations that day). The sales for this ticket should've been locked to the actual player whether they did it by the credit card name (which yes people could've used someone else's card but that would've far limited the amount of tickets they could've hoarded) or some other way. I have two accounts and would have been perfectly fine to be told from the start I could only go once. I'm sure most people would've felt it fair because 300 tickets to 300 individual people would've allowed almost every person that plays gemstone to have a chance to go to this event, not selfish individuals to take up probably 10 spots by the time this is over.

[Androidpk]

I think it was Ardwen who recommended the best solution: raffle the right to buy a ticket. Simple, a lot less stress for us and less stress for them.

Someone would still cry foul.

[senorgordoburro]

One ticket per player is not what it should have ever been. Every ACCOUNT has as much right to be at the event as any other ACCOUNT. New accounts could be restricted from buying tickets, and there is a post on the officials about how trial accounts are not eligible to win most major's, so they are kind of taking care of that already. So if you have a trial account, and a ticket with the trial account, you might want to call billing and pay for the month or you are gonna miss out on a chance at any decent major.

[Androidpk]

From the start it should've been one ticket per PLAYER not per account. Making it per account doesn't limit anything as there are many players with more accounts then they know what to do with. The certain fact is that there are players that play the game to RP and like a normal person and may have one to two accounts and then there are players (No need to even drop any names we all know who they are) that play GS like it is their job and their life and have dozens of accounts and at every merchant event IG will have multiple characters (I remember waiting in line for ONE alteration and watching this player go through twice, log out those two and log in two more characters to get four alterations that day). The sales for this ticket should've been locked to the actual player whether they did it by the credit card name (which yes people could've used someone else's card but that would've far limited the amount of tickets they could've hoarded) or some other way. I have two accounts and would have been perfectly fine to be told from the start I could only go once. I'm sure most people would've felt it fair because 300 tickets to 300 individual people would've allowed almost every person that plays gemstone to have a chance to go to this event, not selfish individuals to take up probably 10 spots by the time this is over.

How would they enforce that?

[tyrant-201]

How do you ensure it's one per player anyway? IP address? People can falsify those. Some households have more than one player in it, as well. Credit card is also not an option, as it's easy enough to use someone elses.

What's been said about raffling them is likely the best option possible.

[crb]

Anyone that actually understands the way internet communication works, understands that Solomon really had no idea what he was talking about with that comment. There's no way for a server to know that it's being contacted by a script versus a webrowser. It simply knows what it's told, IP and request. There's also no way to determine by the actions that it's a person versus a computer on the other end of the string. You can look at a server log and assume that regular interval refreshes/pings are created by a program, but you're just making an assumption, you're not basing it on fact.

The simplest fix for this problem is for them to implement some checks and balances from their side to authenticate a person at the end of the string. I'm not really sure what the resistance to that is, it's simple enough to do by anyone with a mediocre amount of web development experience, or an hour worth of google time.

Dgry

That is actually not true, not in the slightest. There are myriad ways to identify the software being used to access your website. There is practically a whole industry around such identification. Both identifying software, or discerning between human and software. Automated software programs have been causing mischief on the Internet since there has been an Internet, and people with the websites have been identifying, blocking, and defending against them for as long as well.

If you had a ruby script accessing a website it'd be the easiest thing in the world to identify it. You could spoof, in which case its a little harder, but still easy, and spoofing a user agent when accessing their website would be a dishonest activity, like wearing a mask while snooping around a store, when caught you can claim you weren't shop lifting but the fact that you wore a mask says you knew you were going to be up to good. Consciousness of guilt. Probably all the ammunition they'd need to ban you. You could say using a script is just using a tool, but when you start trying to hide it you're subverting their software.

Plus, it isn't necessary to script this. You're still limited by bandwidth, so it isn't as if you can just hammer their server. Like most web servers they probably automatically throttle IPs that start too many requests. All a script gives you is a few microsecond edge between refreshes where the script can decide faster than you that the page needs to be refreshed.

[Leloo]

As I said it wouldn't be as easy but it would limit it more. If you did it per credit card yeah I may be able to get say my husband or my parents to let me borrow their credit card but that still puts me at 2-3 tickets, we all know people that had 3 tickets the FIRST run alone. It would be harder to find 5 or more people to say 'Yeah here you go borrow my credit card'. I'm sure they could be creative and finds ways to limit it, matching credit card names, IP addresses, home addresses as well as the MOMENT they released RtCF they should've locked accounts and had it so no account created after that date could buy a ticket. Yes, sucks for "new players" but really how many new players do you really know? I just think there is more that could've been done to ensure every person had a chance to go to RtCF and not have the merchant whores spoil the event for everyone. I've heard a lot of people sour at Simu in general for the way this was handled for the average player.

[Androidpk]

I just think there is more that could've been done to ensure every person had a chance to go to RtCF and not have the merchant whores spoil the event for everyone. I've heard a lot of people sour at Simu in general for the way this was handled for the average player.

Plenty of "average players" have been able to get a ticket. Would a raffle be more fair? I'm not sure. Ultimately it all comes down to luck no matter what way they do it. Even if they held a raffle for tickets people with 5+ accounts would still have an advantage.

[The Grammar Police]

From the start it should've been one ticket per PLAYER not per account. Making it per account doesn't limit anything as there are many players with more accounts then they know what to do with. The certain fact is that there are players that play the game to RP and like a normal person and may have one to two accounts and then there are players (No need to even drop any names we all know who they are) that play GS like it is their job and their life and have dozens of accounts and at every merchant event IG will have multiple characters (I remember waiting in line for ONE alteration and watching this player go through twice, log out those two and log in two more characters to get four alterations that day). The sales for this ticket should've been locked to the actual player whether they did it by the credit card name (which yes people could've used someone else's card but that would've far limited the amount of tickets they could've hoarded) or some other way. I have two accounts and would have been perfectly fine to be told from the start I could only go once. I'm sure most people would've felt it fair because 300 tickets to 300 individual people would've allowed almost every person that plays gemstone to have a chance to go to this event, not selfish individuals to take up probably 10 spots by the time this is over.

Were to begin...

[caelric]

Solomon really had no idea what he was talking about

Quoted for general truth.

[thefarmer]

As I said it wouldn't be as easy but it would limit it more. If you did it per credit card yeah I may be able to get say my husband or my parents to let me borrow their credit card but that still puts me at 2-3 tickets, we all know people that had 3 tickets the FIRST run alone. It would be harder to find 5 or more people to say 'Yeah here you go borrow my credit card'. I'm sure they could be creative and finds ways to limit it, matching credit card names, IP addresses, home addresses as well as the MOMENT they released RtCF they should've locked accounts and had it so no account created after that date could buy a ticket. Yes, sucks for "new players" but really how many new players do you really know? I just think there is more that could've been done to ensure every person had a chance to go to RtCF and not have the merchant whores spoil the event for everyone. I've heard a lot of people sour at Simu in general for the way this was handled for the average player.

Define 'average player'.

Then tell me how it applies to pointing and clicking to purchase a ticket.

[Drew]

Someone would still cry foul.

Yeah, there are a ton of people who don't get statistics who literally believe that the in-game spinners can be weighted by GMs to favour their friends. Someone will always cry foul (see: Jarvan whining when he didn't get a ticket, now that he got one he hasn't made 800 million butt-hurt posts).

[thefarmer]

Yeah, there are a ton of people who don't get statistics who literally believe that the in-game spinners can be weighted by GMs to favour their friends.

You mean I've been supporting all these GM wives for nothing?!

[Latrinsorm]

Belittling their knowledge and then threatening to do something if you don't get your way isn't the smartest approach.Not to get what you want from the person you are belittling, but if you can back it up their employer might take a keen interest. Solomon can't claim he's an effective policeman if you're prodding him in the butt with his own nightstick.

[Methais]

I think the underlying problem is a lot of people just suck at basic things like clicking a mouse, or using both the keyboard and mouse simultaneously to save time.

I'd be willing to bet that at least a good chunk of people that have been going nuts and having forum meltdowns over this also did stupid things like click the back (or refresh) button on their browser (instead of hitting the backspace key so they could keep their mouse hovered over the SIGN UP button), and I've seen several posts of people saying they'd refresh the page every 1, 5, 10, even 15 minutes, and then wonder why they didn't score a ticket.

It takes a little bit of luck, sure. But it doesn't take a script by far. I'm 3 for 3 on these tickets (only missed out the first time cause i thought I had to type my character name in the box, but I count it as a success anyway despite not scoring a ticket that run...and I was in class on my school's dog shit computer), and I did nothing special at all, unless using the backspace key and keeping the mouse cursor hovered over the SIGN UP button is something special now.

Yeah the way Simu decided to do the tickets is dumb as fuck, but apparently me casually hitting backspace and clicking the mouse is more effective than these bots that are supposedly out there running rampant.

Do this for the third run:

1. Set a 2 minute timer on your phone 2 minutes before tickets are supposed to go up.

2. Click SIGN UP when there's 1-2 seconds remaining (depending on your connection)

3. Confirm your purchase.

4. Win Gemstone.

Whatever clock that iPhones are synced to, Simu is apparently using that because it was accurate on my phone right down to the second.

EDIT: Use Chrome browser too. It's faster and doesn't give you stupid errors when you hit backspace like Firefox does.

[m444w]

That is actually not true, not in the slightest. There are myriad ways to identify the software being used to access your website. There is practically a whole industry around such identification. Both identifying software, or discerning between human and software. Automated software programs have been causing mischief on the Internet since there has been an Internet, and people with the websites have been identifying, blocking, and defending against them for as long as well.

If you had a ruby script accessing a website it'd be the easiest thing in the world to identify it. You could spoof, in which case its a little harder, but still easy, and spoofing a user agent when accessing their website would be a dishonest activity, like wearing a mask while snooping around a store, when caught you can claim you weren't shop lifting but the fact that you wore a mask says you knew you were going to be up to good. Consciousness of guilt. Probably all the ammunition they'd need to ban you. You could say using a script is just using a tool, but when you start trying to hide it you're subverting their software.

Plus, it isn't necessary to script this. You're still limited by bandwidth, so it isn't as if you can just hammer their server. Like most web servers they probably automatically throttle IPs that start too many requests. All a script gives you is a few microsecond edge between refreshes where the script can decide faster than you that the page needs to be refreshed.


It's not a dishonest practice. It's a commonly employed privacy (to prevent HTTP fingerprinting as 3rd party advertisers track you across the web) & debugging tactic (Chrome: ctl + shift +i, go to the gear at the bottom right, and then click on overrides in the resulting window and you can begin spoofing right now!)

Since you still have to authenticate with play.net and thus cannot assume they do not tie sessions & fingerprints to logins, your bot would want to spoof your own commonly used User-Agent string, which would make your single-threaded bot undetectable to any such software purchased, and just make it seem like you were a whole lot quicker at clicking than everyone else.

It took them a decade to get Monks out... do you think they really bothered to implement request throttling also?

[Latrinsorm]

Only one way to settle this, gentlemen. Java at 10 horts.

[Haldrik]

Hmm. I think you can probably test the script on the open quest. Forgot what its called.

[jafo]

Captcha says what? Easily fixed even if there isn't an actual problem. Pretend scripted purchase of tickets is just a conspiracy theory. Implementing a captcha type verification fixes the confidence problem.

[Haldrik]

Captcha says what? Easily fixed even if there isn't an actual problem. Pretend scripted purchase of tickets is just a conspiracy theory. Implementing a captcha type verification fixes the confidence problem.

This 1000%. Even if all this talk is bullshit, it should still be implemented.

[Methais]

I'm pretty sure that Simu has no plans on doing anything to any potential scripters, which includes trying to catch them.

More likely than not, Solomon's post was nothing but empty words with no intentions on following through, unless the person calls Simu immediately after and is like "Hey guess what I just scripted the fuck out of RtCF tickets. Here is my info so that I may be punished..."

[Jace Solo]

I think it was Ardwen who recommended the best solution: raffle the right to buy a ticket. Simple, a lot less stress for us and less stress for them.

Yup, or grab people at random like an AFK check and ask if they want to go and can afford in within the next 48 hours. Give them a code or something to enter. Simple.

[tyrant-201]

Yup, or grab people at random like an AFK check and ask if they want to go and can afford in within the next 48 hours. Give them a code or something to enter. Simple.

Can you imagine how many people would cry favoritism?

[Latrinsorm]

Can they fit in a breadbox?

[cwolff]

I think the underlying problem is a lot of people just suck at basic things like clicking a mouse, or using both the keyboard and mouse simultaneously to save time.

Buying tickets should not be a competition based one keyboard/mouse manipulation.

[jafo]

Buying tickets should not be a competition based one keyboard/mouse manipulation.

Unlike airline, concert, or other tickets?

[diethx]

People, you are silly. Just imagine how mad you'll be if they implement a captcha and you lose out on a ticket because it's fucking illegible. Because that never happens right?!

Man, I think the rage then would be x100 the rage now just at the idea of bots.

[senorgordoburro]

Buying tickets should not be a competition based one keyboard/mouse manipulation.

I think it is the fact that videos games are taken so seriously is the issue.... this shit is srs bsnss and all but, it is a game, and you don't have to go there. Just hand off your gear to a friend and bid via LNet and people will get your shit worked on. The only real need of going is if you want to SELL your wins. The chances of you getting a major you want even if you get a ticket is not that high.

[thefarmer]

Captcha says what? Easily fixed even if there isn't an actual problem. Pretend scripted purchase of tickets is just a conspiracy theory. Implementing a captcha type verification fixes the confidence problem.

People say it's hard enough to get tickets just by clicking. You want to create another barrier that's going to hit people just as hard?

I hate captcha. It usually takes me repeated tries to get it right. Sometimes I can't even solve them depending on how difficult it's designed. Putting this in place would do more to the 'average' player than to these mythical scripters.

[thefarmer]

Buying tickets should not be a competition based one keyboard/mouse manipulation.

If you think about it.. the entire game is based on that.

[tyrant-201]

I considered figuring out a way to make a macro for the sign up button(s), apparently there are extensions on chrome that make it possible. Obviously I'm not the most knowledgable person about such a thing, but my programmer buddy did say he thought it was possible. Something to consider for those of you who missed out.

Edited to say: Apparently the extension is called "Shortkeys".

[senorgordoburro]

Buying tickets should not be a competition based one keyboard/mouse manipulation.

Not only do I want a ticket, and not compete for one, I want it given to me. I also want EXP stamps, like food stamps, but for EXP. Then players should get a free account with a titled empath to heal our characters when we get hurt. But not everyone, just those that don't work hard enough at the game and learn to use herbs, or find an empath. Also, if I can't play for a while, I should just get EXP. Like if I dont log in for a couple days, I should get EXP just for paying my subscription. I'll come up with more ideas later, but right now I need to go get high and then take a nap, I haven't had a job in 4 years and logging onto the internet to check my video game forum is really wearing me out.

[tyrant-201]

Not only do I want a ticket, and not compete for one, I want it given to me. I also want EXP stamps, like food stamps, but for EXP. Then players should get a free account with a titled empath to heal our characters when we get hurt. But not everyone, just those that don't work hard enough at the game and learn to use herbs, or find an empath. Also, if I can't play for a while, I should just get EXP. Like if I dont log in for a couple days, I should get EXP just for paying my subscription. I'll come up with more ideas later, but right now I need to go get high and then take a nap, I haven't had a job in 4 years and logging onto the internet to check my video game forum is really wearing me out.

You're out of your element.

[dszabo]

Unlike airline, concert, or other tickets?

You just have to know how to talk to get those...

Call early, before they go on sale, and just chat up the Ticketmaster person for 10 minutes. Front row seats every time.

"Sorry, the tickets aren't on sale yet."
"Oh, that's ok, yada yada yada..."
"Well, it looks like the tickets have just opened up for sale, where would you like to sit?"

[Methais]

Buying tickets should not be a competition based one keyboard/mouse manipulation.

I'll pretend that this isn't the most senseless post in this thread and play along.

Hitting the backspace key instead of moving the mouse, clicking the refresh/back button, and then moving the mouse back to click the sign up button requires far more manipulation than holding the mouse still and pressing the backspace key.

It's not a matter of skill as if you were nailing scopeless headshots from the other end of the map. It's a matter of knowing what you're doing (which in this case really only requires that you have a pulse), along with a little bit of common sense (I.e. they go on sale in 2 minutes. Perhaps I should set a 2 minute timer so I'll know the exact moment they should be for sale and start clicking then) and a dash of luck.

I could go on, but let's wait and see if you can grasp this concept first.

I really hope you were just trolling though, which in that case, well done.

[senorgordoburro]

Methais, he obviously enjoys computer games that do not involve either the keyboard or the mouse.

[Methais]

Methais, he obviously enjoys computer games that do not involve either the keyboard or the mouse.

He's free to use a controller if he wants, though I wouldn't recommend it.

[Moonwitch]

People, you are silly. Just imagine how mad you'll be if they implement a captcha and you lose out on a ticket because it's fucking illegible. Because that never happens right?!

Man, I think the rage then would be x100 the rage now just at the idea of bots.

I hate those stupid wavy boxes. Simu would have to change how they did things if they used those. 3 minute buy window or something.

[Wheelerm]

Will it work as good as ;totalsolutions?

:)

[dgryphon]

Will it work as good as ;totalsolutions?

:)

Nothing works as well as ;totalsolutions!

Dgry

[dgryphon]

That is actually not true, not in the slightest. There are myriad ways to identify the software being used to access your website. There is practically a whole industry around such identification. Both identifying software, or discerning between human and software. Automated software programs have been causing mischief on the Internet since there has been an Internet, and people with the websites have been identifying, blocking, and defending against them for as long as well.

If you had a ruby script accessing a website it'd be the easiest thing in the world to identify it. You could spoof, in which case its a little harder, but still easy, and spoofing a user agent when accessing their website would be a dishonest activity, like wearing a mask while snooping around a store, when caught you can claim you weren't shop lifting but the fact that you wore a mask says you knew you were going to be up to good. Consciousness of guilt. Probably all the ammunition they'd need to ban you. You could say using a script is just using a tool, but when you start trying to hide it you're subverting their software.

Plus, it isn't necessary to script this. You're still limited by bandwidth, so it isn't as if you can just hammer their server. Like most web servers they probably automatically throttle IPs that start too many requests. All a script gives you is a few microsecond edge between refreshes where the script can decide faster than you that the page needs to be refreshed.

As far as any website is concerned, you are whatever you identify yourself as. Anything beyond accepting that as fact is plain and simple guesswork.... as I said in my original post. Nothing you've said in this post contradicts that, which is odd as you opened with "that's not true in the slightest"

Dgry

[dgryphon]

People, you are silly. Just imagine how mad you'll be if they implement a captcha and you lose out on a ticket because it's fucking illegible. Because that never happens right?!

Man, I think the rage then would be x100 the rage now just at the idea of bots.


There are varying degrees of captcha's. You can design a very basic one that just converts typed text to a gif and displays the text with no masking, converting, obscuring, etc. It would place the cost of creation and reliability of a scripted purchase out of the realm of most users. Adding even the simplest of captchas makes scripting a ticket purchase *MUCH* harder than non-captcha purchases.

Dgry

[dgryphon]

Belittling their knowledge and then threatening to do something if you don't get your way isn't the smartest approach.

I should clarify. The post you're responding to wasn't belittling simu's web team. The statement of how simple it is to change the situation was simply to explain that most anyone with a little web design experience could implement solutions to this problem with only a few hours research/work. I would expect it to be nearly trivial for simu's web designer(s).

As far as Solomon. CEOs of very big and profitable companies have often made terrible public statements. Sometimes they were uninformed, sometimes they over estimated their resources abilities, sometimes they were just talking out of their ass. Take your pick as to the reasoning behind this statement, but make no mistake, it's not a simple thing to "detect and punish" scripting of simu's current purchasing mechanic, especially if any thought at all is put into play for anti-detection on the script writer.

Since I won't actually be using said script, and I don't intend on putting much more effort into making it user friendly, it'll probably just come with a "use at your own risk" disclaimer. However, being that it'll be the property of the public at that point, I'm pretty sure someone will flesh it out a bit.

Dgry

[Slit-eye]

I should clarify. The post you're responding to wasn't belittling simu's web team. The statement of how simple it is to change the situation was simply to explain that most anyone with a little web design experience could implement solutions to this problem with only a few hours research/work. I would expect it to be nearly trivial for simu's web designer(s).

As far as Solomon. CEOs of very big and profitable companies have often made terrible public statements. Sometimes they were uninformed, sometimes they over estimated their resources abilities, sometimes they were just talking out of their ass. Take your pick as to the reasoning behind this statement, but make no mistake, it's not a simple thing to "detect and punish" scripting of simu's current purchasing mechanic, especially if any thought at all is put into play for anti-detection on the script writer.

Since I won't actually be using said script, and I don't intend on putting much more effort into making it user friendly, it'll probably just come with a "use at your own risk" disclaimer. However, being that it'll be the property of the public at that point, I'm pretty sure someone will flesh it out a bit.

Dgry

And sometimes they are misunderstood. It is actually an easy endeavor to catch the provable bots. Catching the bots that you have a "Great idea" are not human can open a can of worms in a civil suit. Provable bots include the multithreaded variety. If they have a request mere milliseconds before another request from the exact same IP, you are not human. If you POST to the ticket confirmation page without first having a GET to the sign-up page, you are not human (or at least attempting to circumvent the box office system). If you POST multiple times in rapid succession, you are not using a "refresh" button for any existing standard browsers as they all have repost confirmation as per www regs. These are all ways to tell if a specific set of requests is botted or not.

This doesn't mean he can catch all of them, only the stupid or poorly written ones. And make no mistake, they're 100% aware of the fact. A bot engine that navigates the website and actually "clicks" where it's supposed to when it's supposed to on a single thread (only does so at your max bandwidth potential) eliminates mouse movement, eliminates human processing, and eliminates browser rendering after the return. This can speed up the job by five fold (or higher for slow browsers), and is completely undetectable from human (because it does nothing a human does not, and does everything a human would have to). Solomon knows he can't "catch" these, although he can give the individual he expects using it the serious stink eye.

The problem with a ruby script is there is no single-threaded restraint. Someone can spawn a hundred of the script in yet another script and start the DOS attack problem all over again. And I guarantee you'll be seen.

There are those people who made an "okay" living doing web-traffic filtering, and they kind of know what they're talking about. They might be steelworkers now because it pays better and you don't have to deal with people who seem to think everything's impossible, but I digress.

[diethx]

And you'll still hear people complaining because they couldn't read it or type it fast enough to get a ticket. People are going to complain no matter what. And while there may very well be people botting for tickets, I'd be willing to guess that the count of those NOT using any extra help is a lot higher than those who are. The simple fact is, people will complain to complain, as long as they aren't one of the lucky 100. Jarvan is a perfect example of that. Even though he won a ticket on the first run, he complained like crazy until he won a ticket on the second run. (To be clear, I don't begrudge him two tickets. That's not my point here).

[Tillmen]

This all seems a little silly. Shouldn't you all be demanding higher ticket prices? The supply vs demand on this is obviously off, so raise the ticket price until the demand lowers to meet the supply, and then buying a ticket becomes a process of.. buying a ticket, instead of something like winning the lottery.

Or they could just keep selling tickets until people stop buying them. This might mean creating more prizes, which reduces the value of all prizes, which reduces demand while at the same time increasing supply. Overall, it would still be more money for Simu, assuming this is a profitable event. That's a good thing, right? In theory, what's good for Simu is good for the players. If the game goes bankrupt, your character and fancy items no longer exist. If the game has money to spare, maybe that means more coding (yeah, I know, maybe not), or my hope would be that this side revenue (along with the simucoin store) allows them to reduce or remove the monthly subscription for the game, which would increase the player base and keep the game going for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, it just seems to me that it would be stupid for Simu to focus on distributing tickets fairly when the root of the problem is that they accidentally created an event that was too good for the ticket price. Demand higher ticket prices! (or crappier events)

[Bobmuhthol]

Shouldn't you all be demanding higher ticket prices?If my goal is to maximize the efficiency of the economy, yes. If my goal is to get a ticket, no, not at all, what?

[Tillmen]

If my goal is to maximize the efficiency of the economy, yes. If my goal is to get a ticket, no, not at all, what?

If your goal is to get a ticket, then a high ticket price means tickets don't sell out in less than a second, and you can haz ticket. Huh?

[diethx]

How do you know they wouldn't still sell out in a second?

[Tgo01]

If tickets were a thousand bucks a pop they would still sell out in less than a minute then we would be reading threads started by crb stating "I just snagged 99 tickets!"

[Tisket]

For a thousand bucks, I want an actual portal to an actual Elanthia.

[Back]

What amuses me most about all of this is the (near) doubling of the price of silvers. Is it cooincidence that Simu priced this at 10x the rate that silvers were going for at the time they announced the event? Now the same 10m silvers can get you near twice that in cash. Not an economist but in hindsight if they charge $150 would anyone have blinked twice?

[Tillmen]

How do you know they wouldn't still sell out in a second?

I didn't say exactly how high the price should be. If you increase the price by one cent, I would wager that they would still sell out in a second. If you increase it by several thousands dollars, I'd wager that they would not. There is a price where the number of people willing to pay that price is equal to the number of tickets available. Someone with more information that me, and probably the authority to set the price, should figure out what that is. They will fail, but the can sure as hell get closer than they are now.

[Bobmuhthol]

If your goal is to get a ticket, then a high ticket price means tickets don't sell out in less than a second, and you can haz ticket. Huh?I'm questioning your understanding of limited resources (i.e. economics). If I am willing to spend $200 on something, and the price is $300, I'm not going to buy it. Increasing ticket prices just means you deterministically allocate the tickets to those with the most willingness to pay. You're basically recommending that Simutronics be their own ticket scalpers, which is totally fucking insane.

[eulogia]

I'm questioning your understanding of limited resources (i.e. economics). If I am willing to spend $200 on something, and the price is $300, I'm not going to buy it. Increasing ticket prices just means you deterministically allocate the tickets to those with the most willingness to pay. You're basically recommending that Simutronics be their own ticket scalpers, which is totally fucking insane.

Adjusting price so demand meets supply is actually quite sane.

Charging much less than the market will allow for a product or service in the name of fairness and community feelings, while well-intentioned, leads to irrational outcomes; for example, everything that has happened.

[Methais]

This all seems a little silly. Shouldn't you all be demanding higher ticket prices? The supply vs demand on this is obviously off, so raise the ticket price until the demand lowers to meet the supply, and then buying a ticket becomes a process of.. buying a ticket, instead of something like winning the lottery.

Or they could just keep selling tickets until people stop buying them. This might mean creating more prizes, which reduces the value of all prizes, which reduces demand while at the same time increasing supply. Overall, it would still be more money for Simu, assuming this is a profitable event. That's a good thing, right? In theory, what's good for Simu is good for the players. If the game goes bankrupt, your character and fancy items no longer exist. If the game has money to spare, maybe that means more coding (yeah, I know, maybe not), or my hope would be that this side revenue (along with the simucoin store) allows them to reduce or remove the monthly subscription for the game, which would increase the player base and keep the game going for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, it just seems to me that it would be stupid for Simu to focus on distributing tickets fairly when the root of the problem is that they accidentally created an event that was too good for the ticket price. Demand higher ticket prices! (or crappier events)

The problem isn't with the tickets or the ticket prices, the problem is the incredibly stupid distribution method of opening up only 25 tickets at a time.

Had they opened up all 100 tickets, or even all 300 tickets at once, we would probably hear a lot less crying.

[Tillmen]

I'm questioning your understanding of limited resources (i.e. economics). If I am willing to spend $200 on something, and the price is $300, I'm not going to buy it. Increasing ticket prices just means you deterministically allocate the tickets to those with the most willingness to pay. You're basically recommending that Simutronics be their own ticket scalpers, which is totally fucking insane.

If you hadn't started out that message with "I'm questioning your understanding of limited resources (i.e. economics).", it wouldn't have been nearly as funny as it is.

[SHAFT]

People would've bitched that they couldn't make the given ticket release date. The proper response to that is "Tough titties".

[Methais]

Adjusting price so demand meets supply is actually quite sane.

Charging much less than the market will allow for a product or service in the name of fairness and community feelings, while well-intentioned, leads to irrational outcomes; for example, everything that has happened.

People would cry just as much if prices were higher.

People would cry if tickets were free and unlimited and everyone that went got all the work done that they could possibly want.

People would cry if as a bonus feature, Simu deposited $10,000 into your rl bank account for every 100k in your GS bank account.

[Tgo01]

People would cry if as a bonus feature, Simu deposited $10,000 into your rl bank account for every 100k in your GS bank account.

Seriously, just just a 10 to 1 in game silver/real life cash ratio? Why is Simu being a bunch of cheap asses?

[Methais]

Seriously, just just a 10 to 1 in game silver/real life cash ratio? Why is Simu being a bunch of cheap asses?

DON'T THEY KNOW I HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON THIS SHIT?!?!?! FUCKING ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!!!!2

[Tillmen]

The problem isn't with the tickets or the ticket prices, the problem is the incredibly stupid distribution method of opening up only 25 tickets at a time.

Had they opened up all 100 tickets, or even all 300 tickets at once, we would probably hear a lot less crying.

That does make some sense, but given the high value and low cost, wouldn't that result in the people with 12 accounts (and maybe a ticket buying script) getting 12 tickets instead of just 3 or 5 or whatever?

In a way, the tickets are basically free as it is. You pay cash, get ticket, get services, sell result for cash, or sell result for silvers and sell silvers for cash, ???, profit. Wouldn't you expect an increase in 1 month throw-away accounts (where you've actually paid for a month instead of having a major service limited trial account), so that one person can get 30 or more tickets and scalp the results? I'm not sure how far people would go, but it does seem possible that all 300 tickets could still sell out in seconds without having any more "people" actually getting tickets.

[jafo]

Earlier I mentioned Captcha, but human verification is low tech as well "answer a question" (where it just displays plain ascii). Captcha is just to demonstrate that anti-botting has existed for a long time now.

[Androidpk]

For a thousand bucks, I want an actual portal to an actual Elanthia.


For $1000 you could go spelunkering inside Rojo's vagina.

[Tisket]

If you meant paying me to do so, that's not enough.

[Slit-eye]

That does make some sense, but given the high value and low cost, wouldn't that result in the people with 12 accounts (and maybe a ticket buying script) getting 12 tickets instead of just 3 or 5 or whatever?

Actually no, it wouldn't. Writing the script requires knowledge of the end results page, and the foreknowledge that a mad rush is going to happen where a script would benefit you greatly. There were no bots used for the first batch, as it was impossible to see the confirmation page prior (and there are subtle changes to the confirmation page from existing box office confirmation pages that couldn't be "guessed"). There may have been post scripts prior, but without knowing the ending ACTION of the form you couldn't get much to happen either... again, the tickets would have to be opened first. Good luck writing your script before 300 sell out after open.

Selling them all in one batch was the only way you could prevent that - but you couldn't allow non-premies to join up as they would've sold out far too fast to hit any "check number" for allowing standard accounts. You had to split them to allow for that and guarantee that non-premium had a shot. Splitting them into three runs, and then into premium and non, and then yet a third time into time zones was a completely ridiculous move. People chose to move forward with their heads in the sand about it. The response from the community seems to only come when they can see it effecting them in the NOW... I'm guessing this is also why so many still refuse to believe bots and scripts exist when their authors are waving them in the communities faces.

[4a6c1]

For $1000 you could go spelunkering inside Rojo's vagina.

Whoa whoa WHOA.

The cavergina does not charge visitors. It gives free tours daily to the public.

[Androidpk]

Whoa whoa WHOA.

The cavergina does not charge visitors. It gives free tours daily to the public.

Quiet, you'll ruin my business!

[4a6c1]

I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You need to start making them wear helmets.

[Androidpk]

The only piece of safety equipment ever needed.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2pu0pcj.jpg

[4a6c1]

Hahahaaaa

[Latrinsorm]

If the game goes bankrupt, your character and fancy items no longer exist.Unless you submit yourself to Tisket's anatomical grasp, a strategy I wholeheartedly endorse.

[Methais]

That does make some sense, but given the high value and low cost, wouldn't that result in the people with 12 accounts (and maybe a ticket buying script) getting 12 tickets instead of just 3 or 5 or whatever?

In a way, the tickets are basically free as it is. You pay cash, get ticket, get services, sell result for cash, or sell result for silvers and sell silvers for cash, ???, profit. Wouldn't you expect an increase in 1 month throw-away accounts (where you've actually paid for a month instead of having a major service limited trial account), so that one person can get 30 or more tickets and scalp the results? I'm not sure how far people would go, but it does seem possible that all 300 tickets could still sell out in seconds without having any more "people" actually getting tickets.

Anything is possible. It also wouldn't matter because even if everybody only got one ticket and did it all manually, everyone that didn't get a ticket would still throw a tantrum.

It will not matter what Simu does to try to make things "fair", even if Santa Claus came down and assured everyone that he checked the system, checked it twice, and determined that it was the most fair thing to ever happen in the history of the universe, people would still cry about it if they didn't get a ticket.

Some of the QQ is a knee jerk reaction, but most of it is probably due to the sense of entitlement so many people have these days.

There is literally nothing that Simu or anyone else could do to make something like this so fair that people wouldn't cry about it. I've even heard some people whine about the envelope thing with the free tickets, crying about it because their character "doesn't hunt", which is therefore unfair to them because it gives other people an unfair advantage.

Me personally I think if they wanted to make it super duper fair, tie all of the tickets to the event to the envelope system. Do it the same way the free tickets worked, except you still have to pay for the ticket. Give them X amount of time to do so before it becomes void.

People would still cry anyway though so even that wouldn't matter.

[Tillmen]

Actually no, it wouldn't. Writing the script requires knowledge of the end results page...

That's a good point, but it can also be applied to selling the tickets in batches like it is now.

For some reason, I once coded a custom comments page for someone's website. It was quick and basic and did the job, but a week later they complained that the spambots had found it. Rather than do a captcha, I just changed around the form a little to make the spambots fail. I added a second submit button before the first one that did nothing, and made it hidden. I added a couple hidden fields with common labels, one empty and one prefilled. If either one changed, and the bots almost always changed them, then the post was ignored. This effectively ended the spam problem with no visible change to the normal users.

With a little cleverness, each batch of tickets that go on sale could be unique enough to make previous bots fail, without affecting normal users at all. It's easy enough to make a bot after seeing the page, but by then it's too late.

And thus I declare the problem solved. Now Simu can distribute the tickets in a manner which is very slightly more fair and equally as arbitrary, while maintaining a profitability from the event that is well below what is possible.

[Androidpk]

I've even heard some people whine about the envelope thing with the free tickets, crying about it because their character "doesn't hunt", which is therefore unfair to them because it gives other people an unfair advantage.

Seriously? That is fucking ridiculous.

[caelric]

Seriously? That is fucking ridiculous.

Given the level of fucking idiocy displayed by many GSers, I am surprised that you are surprised.

[Methais]

Given the level of fucking idiocy displayed by many GSers, I am surprised that you are surprised.

Given the level of fucking idiocy displayed by many GSers, I'm not surprised that you're surprised that he's surprised.

[ROTOR]

Yeah, the tickets should have all gone in the envelopes, but as you say, people would still complain.

[senorgordoburro]

Yeah, the tickets should have all gone in the envelopes, but as you say, people would still complain.

Especially when MA teams pulled in a shit ton of tickets since they are getting a lot more boxes than people with 1 acct. There is no way to do it without people complaining like many have said already.

[nocturnix]

Buying tickets should not be a competition based one keyboard/mouse manipulation.

Here here!

[Methais]

Especially when MA teams pulled in a shit ton of tickets since they are getting a lot more boxes than people with 1 acct. There is no way to do it without people complaining like many have said already.

Can anyone name even one situation in GS, or any MMO for that matter, where having multiple accounts doesn't put you at an advantage?

[senorgordoburro]

Can anyone name even one situation in GS, or any MMO for that matter, where having multiple accounts doesn't put you at an advantage?

No, I merely state the fact that people already bitch about MA teams. If they get a bunch of tickets that will be a whole different thread that MAing should be banned or something equally absurd.

[Slit-eye]

Changing the page was the first suggestion made, and it was requested done before this third batch went on sale. It didn't happen... but it wouldn't have mattered. The actual problem bots are scripts written that simply "POST" and spam the server - which would continue to happen even with a changed page. They're not crawlers... they're 13 year old script kiddie stuff. What they'd have to do is change the actual name of the landing page each time - and I could see that causing some problems in other areas/links where legitimate buyers would start complaining like they did in the first run about "Unable to find the stupid buy page".

[SHAFT]

Blizzard has a pretty good method of dealing with people who complain about wow; they simply don't give a damn. Every time they update a class or make a change you have complaints. Who cares?

[Latrinsorm]

Not being able to please everyone is not license to do an objectively crappy job.

[BigWorm]

I have fully automated similar tasks in the past using Mechanize (https://github.com/sparklemotion/mechanize) which is a great libary. Honestly, you probably only need intermediate level scripting abilities to get this to work if you have something to test against. Getting it right without being able to test against the real page will be a pain in the ass though.