AOL's Election Tracker [Archive] - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

Atlanteax

08-23-2004, 02:24 PM

It won't show the total # of votes, or list the votes by States...

But each member can only vote once...

.

As of Today, 08/23

Bush has 404 Electoral Votes to Kerry's 134 (Nader = 0).

Kerry has :
Oregon (7)
California (55)
New Mexico (5)
Iowa (7)
New York (31)
Maine (4)
Vermont (3)
Mass (12)
Connecticut (7)
Washington DC (3)

.

So it looks like it's pretty decisive in Bush's favor... as it's basically assumed California and NY will vote Kerry (doubtful Terminator can deliver California).

Not "scientific" but still a good polling method (AOL members)

.

This is good news for the good ol' USA!!!

Wezas

08-23-2004, 02:29 PM

Says alot about republicans too. They're still using AOL.

peam

08-23-2004, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Wezas
Says alot about republicans too. They're still using AOL.

Bingo.

Parkbandit

08-23-2004, 02:57 PM

Actually, Arnold is really helping in California. His approval rating is up to 70% and it's no longer a state in which Bush automatically loses.. it's actually one of the battle states.

GSTamral

08-23-2004, 03:13 PM

nahhh, who are you kidding falgrin. California will be much closer than the 54-42 it was last time, but it's still a kerry state.

Actually, this election and the next will be the last 2 elections that republicans can win. Conservative Middle Class America is like western Europe. 1.8 children per family. Poor people and stupid people are breeding at astronomical rates. The number of families under the poverty line is less now than it was in 1980. But the number of people is almost 1.5 times as many. It provides an influx of votes for dems, and with the number of uneducated people rising, it may signal an attempt to return the US to a partial manufacturing economy, which will kill the United States permanently in the world market, even if the unions budge off of their stupid and ridiculous demands. The unions price our workers out of the world market, and then they stubbornly resist education and moving into service positions that pay better wages. And then they vote democrat on top of it all.

Wezas

08-23-2004, 03:15 PM

Democrats = Poor, Stupid, and Overpopulating

That about cover it, Tamral?

GSTamral

08-23-2004, 03:23 PM

From stratcom here at UPS, here are some interesting numbers to observe.

The number of registered democrats in the United States outnumbers the number of registered republicans by a margin of approximately 52% to 46%, with 2% of america registered to Independant groups.

broken down by education level, the most significant group of democrat support comes from those without a high school degree (68% to 19%), and those with post-doctorate education levels (59% to 40%). Removing educators from the latter group reveals a drastic change to 56% GOP to 42% Dem.

The most significant group supporting the GOP are those with a college degree or masters (61% ro 36%), and those with some college through an associates degree (58% to 41%).

The only large middle class organization to significantly support dems that is not politically affiliated are the unions. Oddly enough, most union positions provide skilled labor salaries for unskilled labor, esp with AFL-CIO.

However, with the number of college bound students increasing at only 1.6% each year as compared to a 4.9% increase in graduating high school seniors, we are once again seeing a shift in political ideology nationwide. The uneducated are rising, and they approve of the donkey.

GSTamral

08-23-2004, 03:24 PM

not really Wezas. I know plenty of extremely intelligent people who vote democrat. Some of whom have a much better background in political science as well.

Rather than equating my statement to read that democrats are poor, stupid and overpopulating, which is more along the lines of insulting, you should instead take from it that I am saying that the poor, stupid and overpopulating people tend to vote democrat. They are just ONE of many groups of people who vote democrat. However, since they are the most rapidly expanding group, yes, it does put another light on the matter.

GSTamral

08-23-2004, 03:28 PM

If I had to say now, I would say Bush will win this election rather handily as compared to last election.

I will also say that I cannot wait until next election, when hopefully someone who isn't getting their cock sucked by the church can run and focus on a more fiscal conservative agenda, as opposed to simply spouting off religious banter. I find myself disagreeing with just about every piece of social agenda Bush has to offer. If only Kerry wasn't such a lying reject and a fiscal pink-commie, I would consider voting against Bush. Hell, I'd freely admit if Kerry finds a way to die before the election, I would switch my vote to Edwards in a heartbeat.

Parkbandit

08-23-2004, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Wezas
Democrats = Poor, Stupid, and Overpopulating

That about cover it, Tamral?

You don't want me to answer that.. do you? :)

Parkbandit

08-23-2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by GSTamral
If I had to say now, I would say Bush will win this election rather handily as compared to last election.

I will also say that I cannot wait until next election, when hopefully someone who isn't getting their cock sucked by the church can run and focus on a more fiscal conservative agenda, as opposed to simply spouting off religious banter. I find myself disagreeing with just about every piece of social agenda Bush has to offer. If only Kerry wasn't such a lying reject and a fiscal pink-commie, I would consider voting against Bush. Hell, I'd freely admit if Kerry finds a way to die before the election, I would switch my vote to Edwards in a heartbeat.

I completely agree.. except the part about switching my vote to Edwards. He's almost just as pink-commie as Kerry is.

Democrats could have put just about anyone into the White House this year... they simply choose so poorly for the candidate that Bush actually could win again.

Bobmuhthol

08-23-2004, 03:34 PM

<<Democrats = Poor, Stupid, and Overpopulating

That about cover it, Tamral?>>

Republicans = Fucking power-hungry morons who declare wars and spend billions arresting average people for possession of marijuana. OH NO NOT MARIJUANA.

Artha

08-23-2004, 03:36 PM

How dare those republican pigdogs arrest people who break the law!?

Bobmuhthol

08-23-2004, 03:40 PM

And yet there are still multiple murders every day.

Artha

08-23-2004, 03:41 PM

wtf does that have to do with marijuana?

Ilvane

08-23-2004, 03:41 PM

I don't think it's going to be a runaway Bush election, sorry guys.

Nice try though.

-A

Bobmuhthol

08-23-2004, 03:43 PM

<<wtf does that have to do with marijuana?>>

They're arresting the wrong people.

Atlanteax

08-23-2004, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Ilvane
I don't think it's going to be a runaway Bush election, sorry guys.

Nice try though.

-A

It WILL be... sorry to disappoint you Ilvane. :saint:

GSTamral

08-23-2004, 03:44 PM

Last I checked, there isn't a streetgang in america who votes republican. Second, the best way to reduce violence isn't by patronizing the poor, it's by motivating them to get out and do something with their lives. Easier said than done, but at the same time, crime in NYC went way down under Guiliani. You look at the states with high crime rates per capita, and then tell me how those states vote.

In other words Bob, your argument makes no sense. The law is the law, and if you choose to break it, then it is a chance you take.

Latrinsorm

08-23-2004, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<wtf does that have to do with marijuana?>>

They're arresting the wrong people. While I agree that marijuana should be legal instead of a bundle of other things, do you seriously murderers aren't being arrested because of marijuana prosecution?

Wezas

08-23-2004, 03:51 PM

Legalize Marijuana, tax it, and use it to pay down the deficit.

Bobmuhthol

08-23-2004, 03:52 PM

<<do you seriously murderers aren't being arrested because of marijuana prosecution?>>

I think a lot of people aren't being arrested for more serious offenses than possession because they're wasting so much money and jail space on it.

DeV

08-23-2004, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Wezas
Democrats = Poor, Stupid, and Overpopulating
You just described the bulk of Republicans that I work with minus the poor part.

Suppa Hobbit Mage

08-23-2004, 03:58 PM

I think he described probably 80% of American's with that one, if you subtract for poor.

Lets keep this non-partisan.

DeV

08-23-2004, 04:06 PM

True. However I know of one Democrat I work with and besides that, none. The Repubs are the most vocal here hence the stupidty overflows far too often for my ears.

Parkbandit

08-23-2004, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
True. However I know of one Democrat I work with and besides that, none. The Repubs are the most vocal here hence the stupidty overflows far too often for my ears.

Just the opposite for me. I am the lone voice of the Republican Party.. (not that it comes up that much at work)

Wezas

08-23-2004, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Just the opposite for me. I am the lone voice of the Republican Party.. (not that it comes up that much at work)

You want fries with that, pink-commie?!?!?!?

Just fucking with you =)

Back

08-23-2004, 04:24 PM

Ultimately, majority wins. Republicans screw themselves out of votes by keeping their iron thumb on the heads of the middle and lower classes.

But seriously, it makes a good point to getting more people on the same page rather than dividing us up between class/education.

GSTamral

08-23-2004, 04:29 PM

Darkelf, the basic difference between republican and democrats is one of ideology. Everything democrat is not stupid, and everything republican is not stupid, it is simply a matter of how you think.

What I do find entertaining though, is that some of the biggest free speech this and freedom that social liberals are among the most closed minded people on earth. A true oxymoron. There are democrats working for UPS. Then again, where I work, everyone has a college education, and most of us don't dismiss everything someone who disagrees with us as being stupid. Not to mention, there isn't a person in the office clearing less than 70 a year, so I guess that makes us not the blanket stupid, poor and overpopulating type either.

The truth is that both candidates are extremely flawed. One is a right wind religious zealot, who also happens to be a retard, and on the other side, you have a lying weasel who flip flops on major issues, and will greatly hurt this economy.

In the end, this election is all about the lesser of two evils. What you will find talking to actual post-doctorate economists on economic issues is simple.

1) The ideologies of the democratic (more socialistic) party are meant for an ideal workplace, however, they fail because when people know a security blanket exists under them, they are not encouraged to work as hard, and innovation and invention falter.

2) The more conservative ideologies create distrust between workers and employers, however are more suited to fit the bill of hard work equating to success. It also emphasizes the success, which causes groups of people to fall much more behind than they would in a more socialistic system.

Maybe you work in some factory or someplace where the stupid republicans are. There are plenty of poor and stupid people on both sides of the fence. But if you plan on dismissing anything conservative as stupid and/or retarded, then you should put that same mentality upon yourself. Cultural relativism is something intelligent people must cope with.

I disagree with just about everything that comes out of Ilvane's mouth. That doesn't mean I think she's stupid. Actually, she's quite intelligent. We just differ so extremely on just about every issue that sometimes healthy discussions turn to arguments. I'll still dismiss her liberal sources just as quickly as I dismiss anything Edine quotes from the national review. But it doesn't mean I'm dismissing an ENTIRE POINT OF VIEW.

GSTamral

08-23-2004, 04:31 PM

Backlash, hate to break the news to you, but the middle class is actually republican. The top 1% is democrat. The bottom 40% is overwhelmingly democrat.

People think the tax breaks only help the top 1%, but it's the 2nd through 18th percentile that actually benefit the most in terms of raw buying power.

Kefka

08-23-2004, 04:32 PM

If AOL reads that Bush is gonna win New York, then it already lost all credibility. I believe Kerry's gonna take it if Bush's only chance is in the Swiftboat Cons for Cash commercials. He has nothing else to stand on. You can actually see him cringe when people talk about going back to the issues.

Wezas

08-23-2004, 04:32 PM

So what would you say the faults of the republican party are, Tamral - Religious issues aside?

DeV

08-23-2004, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
True. However I know of one Democrat I work with and besides that, none. The Repubs are the most vocal here hence the stupidty overflows far too often for my ears.

Just the opposite for me. I am the lone voice of the Republican Party.. (not that it comes up that much at work) Actually, they talk about Politics quite alot. I consider it pretty dumb to vote for someone just because you're from the same state. I've had a few intelligent debates but for the most part I tend to avoid the political discussions as most of the time I'm assumed to be a Democrat. :?:

Wezas

08-23-2004, 04:37 PM

People at my work seem to not talk about politics much - but what's really pissed me off recently is the jokes about "retards". Basically if someone does something stupid, they spend 5 minutes talking and gesturing like someone who's slow.

Wouldn't bother me so much if it was the Jr. staff - but our director is a big part of it too. Your daddy got you the job - but he's not president anymore and now you have to act like a big boy and not do those type of things.

Parkbandit

08-23-2004, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Kefka
If AOL reads that Bush is gonna win New York, then it already lost all credibility. I believe Kerry's gonna take it if Bush's only chance is in the Swiftboat Cons for Cash commercials. He has nothing else to stand on. You can actually see him cringe when people talk about going back to the issues.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Someone's out of touch with reality.

You've been listening to Ilvane far too long when you start taking out the word "Kerry" and replacing it with the word "Bush". Kerry's big knock all along is that he doesn't stand for anything.

Someone has a bad case of confusingthecandidatesitis. You should vote Republican.. it'll cure itself :P

Parkbandit

08-23-2004, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Wezas
People at my work seem to not talk about politics much - but what's really pissed me off recently is the jokes about "retards". Basically if someone does something stupid, they spend 5 minutes talking and gesturing like someone who's slow.

Wouldn't bother me so much if it was the Jr. staff - but our director is a big part of it too. Your daddy got you the job - but he's not president anymore and now you have to act like a big boy and not do those type of things.

I was bowling for the Retarded Citizens charity this past weekend.. and won a case of beer. Sure I sucked at bowling (135 and 108) but I had fun.

:P

DeV

08-23-2004, 04:44 PM

Tamral, I define stupidity by what I hear come from a persons mouth. Nothing more. I said most of the people I work with are Republicans and that doesn't mean THEY ARE STUPID THEREFORE THEY ARE REPUBLICAN. It simply means they are stupid, most of them non-thinkers who tend to go with whatever ideology has already been laid out for them and they HAPPEN to be Republican also. I consider a person stupid to vote for a Politician for reasons such as: Oh gee, they come from the same state as me. Or because its cool to be Republican and feel I am on a higher keel than everyone else. To have no sense of self and to be in complete agreement with everything your party stands for, dismissing even logic at times. I fully understand the basic ideology of what defines a Democrat from a Republican.

Maybe you work in some factory or someplace where the stupid republicans are. There are plenty of poor and stupid people on both sides of the fence. But if you plan on dismissing anything conservative as stupid and/or retarded, then you should put that same mentality upon yourself. Cultural relativism is something intelligent people must cope with.
No, I don't work in a fucking factory. I am a college educated woman who works in a professional corporate environment. Interestingly enough, I have more education than most of the Republicans I work with. It was so sad of you to assume otherwise. :yawn:

Hulkein

08-23-2004, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Wezas
Says alot about republicans too. They're still using AOL.

ROFL, PWNT

Back

08-23-2004, 04:47 PM

xtc

08-23-2004, 04:51 PM

lol levelling the field.....lol.......damn socialists....did u know Marx use to ask Engle for money...lol....Engle got it from his Capitalist Father...lol

Regarding the Repub still using AOL thing. Hey the damn democrats can't even figure out a ballot, well not in Florida at least. Not even when they mailed instructions to each registered voter.

Hulkein

08-23-2004, 04:53 PM

This is odd... I had Backlash saying there was no shot in hell Bush was winning just last week. I guess I wasn't alone in disagreeing with that statement?

Kefka

08-23-2004, 04:54 PM

Typical republican response. Surprised you didn't fit flip flop somewhere in there. Just like the John Kerry records argument. He posted his record, but to republicans, he didn't "really" present them.

But I am starting to understand neocons more. If you can take a fact, twist and distort it to make Bush look good, then you're in. But if you want to cover your ears to where Kerry stands, that's up to you. All Bush has are his failures.

Edited to note in response to Park

[Edited on 8-23-2004 by Kefka]

Back

08-23-2004, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by xtc
lol levelling the field.....lol.......damn socialists....did u know Marx use to ask Engle for money...lol....Engle got it from his Capitalist Father...lol

Regarding the Repub still using AOL thing. Hey the damn democrats can't even figure out a ballot, well not in Florida at least. Not even when they mailed instructions to each registered voter.

Yeah, leveling the playing field. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would like to be free of student loans. Education costs are outrageous in my opinion.

Also, this classification of AOL=Republican is jsut as absurd as Democrats=poor.

Wezas

08-23-2004, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by Kefka
All Bush has are his failures.

And his military records.....

err... nevermind.

xtc

08-23-2004, 05:00 PM

Backlash's idea of levelling the playing field. Rich people pay for poor people's education. Your hand in my pocket again lol. Please accept my apologies if I am wrong and you can correct me as to your meaning

Hulkein

08-23-2004, 05:00 PM

<<Also, this classification of AOL=Republican is jsut as absurd as Democrats=poor.>>

<<broken down by education level, the most significant group of democrat support comes from those without a high school degree (68% to 19%), >>

Not very absurd in my eyes.

Of course not all democrats are poor, that's obvious. It's still very surprising that 68% of democrats do not have a HS diploma.

GSTamral

08-23-2004, 05:02 PM

I never stated general faults of the democrat party. I simply stated that one of their largest voting blocks includes the uneducated and the poor, who are breeding at a much higher rate than the rest of america, thus creating more of a basis in that population.

The republicans have the zealot religious right, who I find to be equally ignorant and invalid in terms of ability to make intelligent and reasonable decisions.

My beliefs are very similar to the majority of upper middle class/lower upper class america. Hard work and education pays off. 11 and 12 hour workdays with a lot of travel should be much more rewarding monetarily then someone who chooses to take an easier route. People who suffer through Engineering in college should make much more money than someone who majors in anthropology or history. Work Hard, Play hard.

Socially, I agree with many of the points you make. But to me, the real bottom line IS money. I earn what I make, and I'd prefer to keep a decent portion of it. I pay more in taxes now than the average american makes in a year. But I don't make a million a year, nor do I even make a quarter million a year. Not even close to that. I can't go out and buy a ton of cars and jewelry and live it up. I'm still fucking saving up for a house. I average 55-60 hours a week working in a job that took 7 years of education to get into.

But according to some people, I'm some rich insensitive pig that needs to pay more and make less. Yes, I will flip people who say that the bird, and simply tell them that maybe if they got off of their asses and got an education, they wouldnt need free handouts at my expense.

I donate quite a bit of money to charity each year, much moreso than most, but I also pick my charities carefully. I don't give free handouts nor will I ever. A beggar begging for food will not see anything from my hands. I will however pour money, time and effort into causes like habitat for humanity, because they get low cost housing, but they must work to build it.

We should all consider the benefits to society of helping people help themselves. Those are the people who are willing and trying. Helping the mothers who have 40 children to collect government money and helping people who want to be lazy and not work does nothing but encourage that type of behavoir.

Wezas

08-23-2004, 05:02 PM

How can the low income families get a decent education - with the Republicans taking away from education?

<hides and snickers>

Wezas

08-23-2004, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Wezas
So what would you say the faults of the republican party are, Tamral - Religious issues aside?

Originally posted by GSTamral
The republicans have the zealot religious right, who I find to be equally ignorant and invalid in terms of ability to make intelligent and reasonable decisions.

So the republican party has no faults other then the religious right?

GSTamral

08-23-2004, 05:12 PM

<<
Not very absurd in my eyes.

Of course not all democrats are poor, that's obvious. It's still very surprising that 68% of democrats do not have a HS diploma.
>>

No, of all people without a HS diploma, 68% are democrat

Hulkein

08-23-2004, 05:14 PM

Oh, ok.

Not quite as disturbing for the democratic party then. :)

Back

08-23-2004, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by GSTamral
Backlash, hate to break the news to you, but the middle class is actually republican. The top 1% is democrat. The bottom 40% is overwhelmingly democrat.

People think the tax breaks only help the top 1%, but it's the 2nd through 18th percentile that actually benefit the most in terms of raw buying power.

Well, my iron thumb comment was more tongue in cheek than serious. I don’t know where you get your numbers, but 68% of the amount of people who don’t have diplomas amounts to about 1% of the total population of the United States.

The Republicans couldn’t be running scared at this figure so its just outright misleading.

What are the figures for those with diplomas and then for those with degrees? 85% of the population has a diploma. Only 27% have degrees. And, since when has it been a standard because last time I checked all you needed to be was an 18 year old American.

The Bush tax breaks help the top 1% more than the rest in terms of percentages. Plain and simple. Compare the percentages for yourself in your next tax booklet. And this is only early in the plan. It will help the 1% even more over the next 10 years.

Back

08-23-2004, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by xtc
Backlash's idea of levelling the playing field. Rich people pay for poor people's education. Your hand in my pocket again lol. Please accept my apologies if I am wrong and you can correct me as to your meaning

Thats not the first thing that comes to mind, but not a bad idea. And why not? Why not help your prospective consumers/employees attain a better educational level, if not for the sake of your own profits, for the good as the United States as a whole?

Public education seems to work. I'd like to see our college system overhauled to have a higher success rate. Much higher. Without knowing the complexities of running a state, let alone a federal government, I can't offer anything more than conjecture. Whatever the solution though, it seems to be in everyones best interest. Or call me crazy.