Assault Weapons - a poll

[Wezas]

I was reading on another message board that the 10 year ban on assault weapons is coming to a close on 9/13/04. I was wondering how you all felt about that. And to make it interesting, I'm spreading the poll out into groups.

Since there are many bias sites out there, I'll list one against the ban and one for it.

One side:
http://www.awbansunset.com/

The other:
http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/faqs/?page=awb

[crazymage]

needs to be reinstated and more heavily enforced

[Hulkein]

I voted pro-ban, voting republican.

I personally don't know if the ban is actually doing anything to prevent fatalities considering I know people with assault rifles legally. As the first article says 'the ban only restricts certain cosmetic features that do not affect the firearms' lethality or functionality.' It also goes on to say that there was such a small amount of crimes committed with assault rifles even before the ban.

In this situation, however, I have to say it's better safe than sorry. Let the real gun enthusiasts pay the thousands of dollars they cost and then alter them so they are legal or whatever it is you have to do, and let the public think they are banned and out of reach.

[Edited on 8-24-2004 by Hulkein]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Hulkein
In this situation, however, I have to say it's better safe than sorry. Let the real gun enthusiasts pay the thousands of dollars they cost and then alter them so they are legal or whatever it is you have to do, and let the public think they are banned and out of reach.

[Edited on 8-24-2004 by Hulkein] I have to agree with you Hulk. I'd rather my family and I be safe than sorry.

[Bobmuhthol]

We need more assault weapons on the streets.

[Gan]

Guess my real stance is what is to be qualified as an 'assault weapon'. I do not support the ban on all firearms, I own firearms and I shoot regularly for sport. I come from a family of hunters, but I would rather shoot clay targets or silouhettes, the thrill I get is not in the kill but in the display of accuracy and the ability of hitting a moving target. I believe in and was trained in the philosophy of one shot/one kill with regards to shooting.

Are large ammo capacity firearms practical? Not for the average joe who shoots for sport, hunts, or carries for self defense. Sport shooting is nice because you can have your ammo box right beside you for reloading when needed. Hunting with large amounts of ammo is idiotic and wasteful. I can not see the thrill in spraying down your target with so many rounds that it ruins the pelt/meat/rack of whatever you are hunting. Idiotic and funny in a twisted-dementted way yes, but not practical.

Are fully automatic weapons practical for citizens? No. No. No. I even question the practicality of their use in law enforcement. There are no reasonable or practical applications for a citizen to have the ability to spurt off a burst of rounds in the name of self defense in a public place unless that person is trying to get points for collateral damage from killed bystanders. There are no resonable or practical applications for hunting with fully automatic weapons either (see above paragraph). And sport shooting automatic weapons does have its attractions in a testosterone way, but it's really is not practical for accuracy shooting or any other form of target shooting that I can think of.

So ban assault weapons, sure if you define assault weapons as fully automatic high ammo capacity firearms. Just don't get the impression that I'll support a ban on all firearms. The difference is in the degree of the weapon... Much like the difference between walking around with a pocket knife and/or walking around with a claid strapped to your back.

[Scott]

I'm all for guns. I own hundreds of them myself, and most of my family owns them as well since everyone is hunters. However I don't see a need to have some weapons out there. A buddy of mine has an uzi..... what the fuck do you need a fucking uzi for? To chop down tree's? No, keep it the way it is now......

[Fallen]

As I am in the Army, I wouldnt mind owning an M-16 to practice with at the range.

[Bobmuhthol]

M16 < M4A1

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
what the fuck do you need a fucking uzi for?How close are you to the Canadian border? :cold:

[Edited on 8-24-2004 by Latrinsorm]

[Meos]

m14>m4a1

[Sean]

Pro-Ban, Voting Democrat

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
M16 < M4A1

Step away from the SOCOM.

[Jack]

A pre-ban AR-15 has a bayonet lug, and a flash suppressor. A post ban doesn't. There's realy no other differences between the two. High capacity magazines for them, or 30 round magazines, are still readily available at gunshows, but it is technically illegal to use a 30 round magazine in a post-ban rifle. The assault weapons ban is pretty much retarded. It doesn't ban automatic weapons, it is still legal to purchase a fully automatic weapon, you just need to apply for, and pay for, a license for them. The assault weapon ban has nothing to do with it.

[Warriorbird]

Anti ban. Voting Democrat because I don't really have any other choice.

I don't think I could advocate civil liberties without advocating the right to bear arms.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Anti ban. Voting Democrat because I don't really have any other choice.Actually, the Republicans do have a candidate this year.

...

Oh wait, I think I get what you meant. :D

[Siefer]

The simple fact remains that assault weapons are rarely used in crimes. The original arguement was that these weapons were the favorite used by gangs and such, and it simply isn't true. Also, the whole notion of the ban was concieved by lawmakers who flipped through a gun magazine and selected guns to ban because of the way they looked, not how they performed. Gun control is bullshit, while we're at it, lets start up TV, radio, and magazine control, wait, the FCC does that now. For the record, I've had a hunting license for some time now but I do not intend to use it and I believe that a person with no criminal record or mental problems should be able to purchase a firearm freely. Its the individual firing the gun thats the problem, it doesn't matter if you're shooting a single action revolver or a Glock 18, it doesn't matter, there will always be people who will use whatever means necessary to kill another person. What we need is a better justice system to punish the people who use these weapons in a criminal manner.

Garand > M14 > M16
Colt Python > All

Against ban, voting Republican.

[Edited on 8-24-2004 by Siefer]

[Warriorbird]

Steyr AUG.

:)

[AnticorRifling]

I voted against the ban Republican. I like my assault weapons.

There are no reasonable or practical applications for a citizen to have the ability to spurt off a burst of rounds in the name of self defense in a public place unless that person is trying to get points for collateral damage from killed bystanders.

QC where civilians are limited, I.e when someone starts shooting up a school or takes something hostage. You don't see street cops walking around with Uzi's like in Germany.

[AnticorRifling]

HK's they use HK's and I wish they did. You see some cops break up a big gang war with a wall of lead and people think twice. I know it's low brow, knuckle dragging mentality but I still think pain retains. Telling someone the fire is hot doesn't have the same lasting effect as letting them get burned alittle.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Steyr AUG.>>

Steyr TMP plz.

[Skirmisher]

Pro-Ban - Voting Democrat

Excellent Op-Ed piece from the NY Times on Aug 18, 2004 gave a good account of the situation i thought.

Link and Article to follow.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/18/opinion/18kristoff.html



OP-ED COLUMNIST
Who Needs Assault Weapons?
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: August 18, 2004

ERIDIAN, Idaho — If you've been longing for your very own assault rifle and 30-round magazine for the next holiday season, you're in luck.

President Bush, sidestepping a promise, is allowing the ban on assault rifles and oversized clips to expire on Sept. 14. So at a gun store here in Meridian, a bit west of Boise, the counter has a display promising "2 FREE HIGH-CAPACITY MAGAZINES."

All you have to do is purchase a new Beretta 9-millimeter handgun and you'll receive two high-capacity magazines - on the condition, the fine print states, that the federal ban expires on schedule.

President Bush promised in the last presidential campaign to support an extension of the ban, which was put in place in 1994 for 10 years. "It makes no sense for assault weapons to be around our society," Mr. Bush observed at the time.

These days Mr. Bush still says that he'll sign an extension of the ban if it happens to reach his desk. But he knows that the only way the ban can be extended on time is if he actually urges its passage, and he refuses to do that. So his promise to support an extension rings hollow - it's not exactly a lie, but it's not the full truth, either.

Mr. Bush's flip-flop is surprising because he has generally had the courage of his convictions. Apparently he's hiding from this issue because it's so politically charged.

Critics of the assault weapon ban have one valid point: the ban has more holes than Swiss cheese.

"The big frustration of my customers is that [the ban] removed things that were kind of fun and made it look cool, but didn't affect how the gun operated," said Sean Wontor, a salesman who heaved two rifles onto the counter of Sportsman's Warehouse here in Meridian to make his point.

One was an assault weapon that was produced before the ban (and thus still legal), and the other was a sanitized version produced afterward to comply with the ban by removing the bayonet mount and the flash suppressor.

After these cosmetic changes, the rifle is now no longer considered an assault weapon, yet, of course, it is just as lethal.

Still, assault weapons, while amounting to only 1 percent of America's 190 million privately owned guns, account for a hugely disproportionate share of gun violence precisely because of their macho appeal.

Assault weapons aren't necessary for any kind of hunting or target shooting, but they're popular because they can transform a suburban Walter Mitty into Rambo, for a lot less money than a Hummer.

"I've got a ton of customers shooting squirrels with AK-47's," said Kevin Tester, a gun salesman near Boise. "They're using 30-round magazines and 7.62-millimeter ammunition, they're shooting up the hills, and they're having a blast."

I grew up on an Oregon farm that bristled with guns to deal with the coyotes that dined on our sheep. Having fired everything from a pistol to a machine gun, I can testify that shooting can be a lot of fun. But consider the cost: 29,000 gun deaths in America each year.

While gun statistics are as malleable as Play-Doh, they do underscore that assault weapons are a special problem in America.

They accounted for 8.4 percent of the guns traced to crimes between 1988 and 1991, and they are still used in one in five fatal shootings of police officers. If anything, we should be plugging the holes in the ban by having it cover copycat weapons without bayonet mounts, instead of moving backward and allowing a new flood of weapons and high-capacity magazines.

The bottom line is that Mr. Bush's waffling on assault weapons will mean more dead Americans.

About 100 times as many Americans are already dying from gunfire in the U.S. as in Iraq. As many Americans die from firearms every six weeks as died in the 9/11 attacks - yet the White House is paralyzed on this issue.

Mr. Bush needs to live up to his campaign promise and push to keep the ban on assault weapons. Otherwise, we'll bring more of the Iraq-like carnage to our own shores, and his refusal to confront our gun problem will kill more Americans over time than Osama bin Laden ever could.

[Latrinsorm]

>>his refusal to confront our gun problem will kill more Americans over time than Osama bin Laden ever could.

So now we're daring Osama to kill people? Swell. Good work there, Nick.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
HK's they use HK's and I wish they did. You see some cops break up a big gang war with a wall of lead and people think twice.


Originally posted by RangerD1
QC where civilians are limited, I.e when someone starts shooting up a school or takes something hostage. You don't see street cops walking around with Uzi's like in Germany.

I agree that the police and military should have access to assault weapons - but is there any reason an american citizen would need an assault rifle?

And don't come up with "target practice". That's so played out it's now become retarded. Weapons serve a purpose. You keep a handgun or shotgun in your house for self defense. You use a rifle for hunting.

When would a citizen need an assault rifle?

[Tirayana]

This is a really good topic, I think. I cast my original vote for Democrat, pro-ban. But now that I consider the issue some more, I think I have changed my mind.

While a ban might do SOME good, it is very questionable. In my personal experience, I've learned that many of the gang related shootings that happen on the streets are kids with illegal weapons, probably obtained by doing drug deals, etc. So, a ban doesn't really solve the problem there. If anything, it'll probably just make the situation worse (consider marijuana - we can't have it legally? oh, fine. we'll just get some backward drug dealer to sell it to us.)

I personally feel very unsafe in this country as it is. Lots of crazy shit has gone down in the past decade or so. Oklahoma bombing, D.C. sniper, Columbine, 9/11. Obviously something has to change. Now the question I have is, what percentage of guns used in the killing of human beings are actually legally obtained? I'll bet that percentage is pretty low.

All in all, I don't see a ban on guns doing any good. However, I do think that there should be more strict requirements when selling guns, to be able to help limit what happens when people use them. I don't know what the process is now..anyone know?

~Tirayana

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tirayana
I personally feel very unsafe in this country as it is. Lots of crazy shit has gone down in the past decade or so. Oklahoma bombing, D.C. sniper, Columbine, 9/11. Obviously something has to change. Now the question I have is, what percentage of guns used in the killing of human beings are actually legally obtained? I'll bet that percentage is pretty low.

Oklahoma was a bomb. 9/11 was Planes and Box Cutters.

The only two of the four situations you said that involve guns at all are Columbine and the DC Sniper.

One of the guns used at Columbine, a Tek-9 Semi-automatic handgun:
http://www.army.lt/guns/gallery/T3.jpg


As for the DC Sniper - He used a Bushmaster XM15. Which is a semi-automatic weapon, but is not part of the ban, because the company made some cosmetic changes to the gun to circumvent the ban.


In the case of the Bushmaster XM15, the gun qualified as a legal, detachable-magazine firearm because it includes only one feature from the list, a pistol grip. And even though the stock looks like it telescopes, it is rigid, suggesting that the manufacturer sought the look of an illegal assault weapon.

-------

The tek-9 is under the assault weapon ban, the XM-15 is not (but in my opinion, should be, as it is still a semi-automatic weapon capable of spraying bullets).

[Wezas]

Old thread, but the ban has been lifted today so I thought it would make sense.

So everyone run out and get your automatic weapons so you can go "hunting".

[Warriorbird]

Awesome.

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm going to feel so much better when I'm eligible for a FID.

[Hulkein]

Crime rates won't rise and the use of these weapons won't be used much more than they were during the ban.

It's a feel good ban that does little. I was for renewing it though, mainly to keep everyone quiet.

[MPSorc]

i voted for the ban to be reinstated, because i see no need for anyone other than military and or police force to have fully automatic weapons, using them for hunting is virtually stupid, using them for home protection, well i think a shotgun is the best home protection weapon cause anyone can use one, just point and fire, and the shot doesn't travel that far, with an automatic weapon you fire multiple shots in rapid succession that have a possability of exiting your home and hitting someone else.

[Parkbandit]

Does me owning an ak-47 with a banana clip tell you how I voted?

:)

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Does me owning an ak-47 with a banana clip tell you how I voted?Your home state tells us everything we need to know. :P

I'm against the ban personally. With or without the ban criminals will get the weapns. A ban here is just one step closer to total gun control.

- Arkans

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. As soon as you cross the line, it's one thing... until you reach that point though, I believe in our Constitution.

[Wezas]

Total gun control will never happen. Handguns, Shotguns, rifles - I don't see any of those being banned anytime soon. It would take a Utopian society for most citizens to give up their guns.

This bill is just to keep automatic weapons from being sold. It's true that most guns used in crimes are obtained by unlawful means and this ban would not affect them. But this ban would limit the guns that get into the hands of kids like the Tek-9 that was used in Columbine. Mark Manes bought the Tek-9 at a gun show and then proceeded to sell it to Klebold & Harris for $500.

PB, what do you use your AK for? Target practice? Hunting? Self protection?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas
PB, what do you use your AK for? Target practice? Hunting? Self protection?

Actually none of the above. I've shot it plenty, but it's not a target practice or hunting gun. And it's certainly not self protection as it would probably do more harm than good if I ever had to use it for that.

I have it because my Father in law gave it to me. It's kind of funny though when I take someone new hunting and they are getting their little shotguns/rifles ready and I pull this out of the case. Their faces go sorta pale :)

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I have it because my Father in law gave it to me. It's kind of funny though when I take someone new hunting and they are getting their little shotguns/rifles ready and I pull this out of the case. Their faces go sorta pale :)

So what you're saying is you have no practical use for it. Here's hoping it isn't stolen from your home and used for the purpose it was developed for. :2beers:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas

So what you're saying is you have no practical use for it. Here's hoping it isn't stolen from your home and used for the purpose it was developed for. :2beers:

Having 2 children in my home.. the would be thieves would have a rather difficult time stealing a gun that is locked in a hidden gun closet. :yes: let alone get through my security system and by my ever mindful nosey neighbor across the street. Add onto that my desire to cause severe bodily harm to any intruder into my home and you have one big ass recipe for "you don't have to worry about my gun Wezas salad".

[Psykos]

I feel you my republican brothers.

<3 Psykos

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Psykos
I feel you my republican brothers.

<3 Psykos

You wish.

You would have a better chance of feeling up Ravenstorm or Snapp.. but even they don't want anything to do with you. I think your best chance is Klaive. You can reach him at:

Klaive's Site (http://klaive.net/forums)

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
You would have a better chance of feeling up Ravenstorm or Snapp.. but even they don't want anything to do with you.

Ahem...


even they?

I know you didn't mean to imply our standards are so low we'd take just about anyone for reasons of groping or anything else for that matter.

That is correct in one thing though: I certainly don't want him. I'm saving myself for Parkbandit.

Raven

[Psykos]

Raven = girl?

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Psykos
Raven = girl?

See, I'm not the only one who's slow as hell.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Wezas
See, I'm not the only one who's slow as hell.

Oh, he's got you beat hands down.

Raven

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by Wezas
See, I'm not the only one who's slow as hell.

Oh, he's got you beat hands down.

Raven

Touche

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by Psykos
Raven = girl?

See, I'm not the only one who's slow as hell.

How sad is your life when you have to justify your actions by proving that Psykos is just as bad.

You have my pity my friend.

[Psykos]

Parkbandit,

You shop at walmart, now shut up.

Psykos

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by Parkbandit
You would have a better chance of feeling up Ravenstorm or Snapp.. but even they don't want anything to do with you.

Ahem...


even they?

I know you didn't mean to imply our standards are so low we'd take just about anyone for reasons of groping or anything else for that matter.

That is correct in one thing though: I certainly don't want him. I'm saving myself for Parkbandit.

Raven

Raven.. as soon as I start batting for the other team and lose my mind to become a Democrat.. I'll look you up. :P

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Psykos
Parkbandit,

You shop at walmart, now shut up.

Psykos

OH NO! I've been OUTTED!!

You are correct. I have shopped at Walmart. Is that a crime or a subject that I should be embarrassed about? I don't know the exact figure.. but being the largest retail store in the world.. I'm guessing more than myself shops there.

Edited to remain on topic: You can purchase hand guns at Walmart too.

[Edited on 9-14-2004 by Parkbandit]

[Psykos]

I'm sorry for making fun of you, I didn't realize.


Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Psykos
Parkbandit,

You shop at walmart, now shut up.

Psykos

OH NO! I've been OUTTED!!

You are correct. I have shopped at Walmart. Is that a crime or a subject that I should be embarrassed about? I don't know the exact figure.. but being the largest retail store in the world.. I'm guessing more than myself shops there.

[Back]

The entire right to bear arms thing needs to be reviewed. Consider the time it was written and how much things have changed. There should be stricter laws on this stuff.

Maybe institute Gun Training schools so people have to take tests before they can use them. Shit, we do that with cars.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
The entire right to bear arms thing needs to be reviewed. Consider the time it was written and how much things have changed. There should be stricter laws on this stuff.

Maybe institute Gun Training schools so people have to take tests before they can use them. Shit, we do that with cars.

I agree with the whole testing but the NRA is a very powerful lobby group and it will never come to fruition.

[Chelle]

Originally posted by Arkans
I'm against the ban personally. With or without the ban criminals will get the weapns. A ban here is just one step closer to total gun control.

- Arkans

So true. Criminal is like omg I cannot have this weapon it is banned. Not hardly. lol. My uncle who passed away a few years ago was in the military and legally owned a M-16. My father (his brother) inherited the weapon. It's locked in a glass case for safe keeping, and one day I will most likely inherit it. Would I like to shoot it some day? Hell yeah. My grandmother has a cabin and a lot of land great for things like that. I don't want some shmuck taking the weapon away.

I feel if one is going to own firearms, they should be required to take firearm saftey classes, and must take a test that has to be passed, in order to recieve a license.

[Jack]

Originally posted by Wezas

This bill is just to keep automatic weapons from being sold.


The Assault Weapons ban has absolutely nothing to do with Automatic Weapons. You cannot buy an automatic weapon now that the ban has expired any more than you could before it. The only exception is those people who have shelled out the extra tax to recieve a class 3 weapons licence, then they can continue to buy any automatic weapon they want, just like they could do when the Aussault Weapons Ban was in place.

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm interested in what non-automatic firearm is classified as an assault weapon.

[Jack]

The SKS, AK47, AR15, M1 Carbine, M1A, M14, etc. All of them are considered assualt weapons by the Brady Bill, but then, only under certain conditions. Also, the only versions sold legally prior to, durring, and after the ban are semiautomatic.

They must have any three of these: A bayonette lug, a high capacity magazine, a pistol grip, a folding stock, or a flash suppressor.

edited because I screwed up.

[Edited on 9-14-2004 by Jack]