Major Florida bust of those wanting sex with children

[Candor]

Posted on AOL, along with the pictures of all 41 suspects. These people aren't scum - I wouldn't insult scum like that. Do we need any bodies to test any vaccines?

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Forty men and one woman face a slew of charges following a major Florida operation targeting people who use the Internet to arrange sexual encounters with children. Some of the suspects, who range in age from 18 to 65, traveled from as far as Wisconsin and Alabama to meet minors for expected sexual encounters. Just 13 were from Polk County, where the operation was executed between June 8 and June 15.

According to the statement from the Polk County Sheriff's Office:

An electrician; a student; an insurance salesman; a bank teller; a handyman; an AV technician; a file clerk; a painter; mechanics; theme park employees; a law enforcement academy graduate; an IT phone technician; laborers; a youth football coach; a photo lab technician, a heavy machine operator; a tax preparer; a hospital accountant; a wall-paper installer and a senior partner in a CPA firm; all wanted to have sex with a child – all were arrested and booked into the Polk County Jail.

Eleven suspects admitted they were married, according to police. Sixteen of them brought condoms.

The suspects face a combined total of 180 charges including but not limited to attempted lewd battery, traveling to meet a minor, drug possession, transmission of harmful material to a minor, to procuring a minor for prostitution and resisting arrest without violence.

The bust is the largest of its kind in Polk County history, according to the release.

[tyrant-201]

While these people are indeed scum, it's a tight line between setting them up and entrapping them. The whole debacle with Chris Hansen proved that a lot of these guys can get off the leash with stuff like this by claiming entrapment.

I just hope they've found a way around allowing these sorts of people to make that claim. It's a good thing they're doing it as a deterrent, but it won't ever be stopped I don't think.

[Keller]

While these people are indeed scum, it's a tight line between setting them up and entrapping them. The whole debacle with Chris Hansen proved that a lot of these guys can get off the leash with stuff like this by claiming entrapment.

I just hope they've found a way around allowing these sorts of people to make that claim. It's a good thing they're doing it as a deterrent, but it won't ever be stopped I don't think.

http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb321/snumb77/gifs/DaveChappelle-LilJohn.gif

[Drew]

I feel bad for people like the teenage girl who is potentially going to be branded a sex offender for having sex with another teenage girl, but people like this who go after children (assuming it's an actually child and not like a 17 year old) should have the book thrown at them.

[Candor]

I feel bad for these people like the teenage girl who is potentially going to be branded a sex offender for having sex with another teenage girl, but people like this who go after children (assuming it's an actually child and not like a 17 year old) should have the book thrown at them.

The detectives pretended to be 14 year olds. Even for the 18 year old offender, I have no sympathy.

[Candor]

While these people are indeed scum, it's a tight line between setting them up and entrapping them. The whole debacle with Chris Hansen proved that a lot of these guys can get off the leash with stuff like this by claiming entrapment.

I just hope they've found a way around allowing these sorts of people to make that claim. It's a good thing they're doing it as a deterrent, but it won't ever be stopped I don't think.

I don't think it will be stopped either. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be efforts to identify and punish those who engage, or attempt to engage, in such acts.

[Methais]

I'm curious what the one woman looked like.

[Ltlprprincess]

This about as bad, if not worse:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/01/feds_nj_babysitter_recorded_se.html

[Tgo01]

While these people are indeed scum, it's a tight line between setting them up and entrapping them. The whole debacle with Chris Hansen proved that a lot of these guys can get off the leash with stuff like this by claiming entrapment.

I don't know, I don't think someone starts talking to a "12 year old girl" on the internet and suddenly says to himself "You know what? Fuck it. I never wanted sex with a 12 year old girl before but this chick makes some damn fine points!"

I mean...I guess it's possible...

[Androidpk]

I don't know, I don't think someone starts talking to a "12 year old girl" on the internet and suddenly says to himself "You know what? Fuck it. I never wanted sex with a 12 year old girl before but this chick makes some damn fine points!"

I mean...I guess it's possible...

Talk to Jarvan more often, see if that does anything for you.

[Tgo01]

Talk to Jarvan more often, see if that does anything for you.

I think I'm missing something...

[tyrant-201]

I don't know, I don't think someone starts talking to a "12 year old girl" on the internet and suddenly says to himself "You know what? Fuck it. I never wanted sex with a 12 year old girl before but this chick makes some damn fine points!"

I mean...I guess it's possible...

I'm not arguing for it, but there's a precedent to people making the claim and getting off the hook. Like I said, I don't think there's any other way to stop or deter it.

But if law enforcement uses similar tactics successfully to try to curtail prostitution, how is this any different? I don't get where the entrapment angle comes in.

[Androidpk]

I think I'm missing something...

It was supposed to be a joke about Jarvy being a 12 year old girl. Thanks for blowing it, pal.

[Tgo01]

It was supposed to be a joke about Jarvy being a 12 year old girl. Thanks for blowing it, pal.

My bad :(

[Tenlaar]

I don't know, I don't think someone starts talking to a "12 year old girl" on the internet and suddenly says to himself "You know what? Fuck it. I never wanted sex with a 12 year old girl before but this chick makes some damn fine points!"

That's the argument though, isn't it? Wanting to have sex with a 12 year old girl isn't illegal. I'm sure I'll get some "zomg way to defend child molesters" horse shit, but honestly I don't see these situations as any different than an undercover police officer spending weeks (or even months) slowly convincing somebody to try drugs and then arresting them for it when they do. If you invite (or worse, convince) people to commit crimes, people are going to commit crimes.

[Sjoldamn]

I'm not arguing for it, but there's a precedent to people making the claim and getting off the hook. Like I said, I don't think there's any other way to stop or deter it.

But if law enforcement uses similar tactics successfully to try to curtail prostitution, how is this any different? I don't get where the entrapment angle comes in.

I was under the impression that, if the officer made the advance and asked for sex, it's entrapment, but if perp makes the advance and asks for sex, that's a legit arrest. I have a cop friend, I'll ask if he knows.

I would assume, and hope, that anybody and everybody involved in an investigation this large would be doing everything by the book, and not taking chances, with this many potential arrests.

[Sjoldamn]

I feel bad for these people like the teenage girl who is potentially going to be branded a sex offender for having sex with another teenage girl, but people like this who go after children (assuming it's an actually child and not like a 17 year old) should have the book thrown at them.

This is where things get tricky. If the teenage girl was only involved with another teenage girl, it becomes all about the age of consent in the state.

[Tgo01]

That's the argument though, isn't it? Wanting to have sex with a 12 year old girl isn't illegal.

I think it shows the person was predisposed to commit said crime.


If you invite (or worse, convince) people to commit crimes, people are going to commit crimes.

I'm sorry but this just isn't comparable to convincing someone to use drugs. I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure these people seek out these undercover agents on the internet, it's not like the undercover agents are trolling chat rooms saying "Hey I'm a 12 year old girl looking for some rough sex with a 40 year old man!"

If I'm wrong about that and undercover agents actually do shit like that well then maybe I can see that being entrapment.

[Tenlaar]

This is where things get tricky. If the teenage girl was only involved with another teenage girl, it becomes all about the age of consent in the state.

I've always found age of consent being set per state to be one of the absurdities of our legal system. Saying that if you stand on this side of a state line your relationship is legal and if you take a big step to the left it's not is just...baffling to me.

[Tgo01]

Thread: Major Florida bust of those wanting sex with children

if only we had a lawyer on the pc that could explain this to us!

I love you anonymous repper.

[Tenlaar]

I'm sorry but this just isn't comparable to convincing someone to use drugs. I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure these people seek out these undercover agents on the internet, it's not like the undercover agents are trolling chat rooms saying "Hey I'm a 12 year old girl looking for some rough sex with a 40 year old man!"

If I'm wrong about that and undercover agents actually do shit like that well then maybe I can see that being entrapment.

I haven't seen anything about this sting in particular, but some of the shit from people like the non-profit group that did the setups for To Catch A Predator looked pretty bad to me. They absolutely did troll chatrooms and whatnot and get guys to talk to them. And it's not like these things were set up with 15 minute chat. They would spend weeks and even months talking to these people, building up trust, flirting with them and encouraging their attention.

[Parkbandit]

Polk County should be the last place any of these scumbags do this... Sheriff Grady Judd LOVES busting these types.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/02/09/article-2098694-11A68425000005DC-831_468x286.jpg

[KneeCapper]

Sheriff Grady Judd is a straight up Dude. I live just a county away and when he makes news it's worth the press he gets. Back up a few years ago when they put a tactical team out after a guy who killed a cop and his K-9, when the press grilled him for shooting the suspect 89 times or so and asked if that was justified he replied "They ran out of ammo"

[Sjoldamn]

I've always found age of consent being set per state to be one of the absurdities of our legal system. Saying that if you stand on this side of a state line your relationship is legal and if you take a big step to the left it's not is just...baffling to me.

I agree. It's not 1790 anymore. People move between states quite often. It's time a lot of laws were set at the federal level.

[Tgo01]

I agree. It's not 1790 anymore. People move between states quite often. It's time a lot of laws were set at the federal level.

State's rights! We fought a war and everything for this!

[Methais]

What happens if a 14 year old and an 18 year old are banging each other on the state line of states where the legal ages are 14 and 18?

http://theabundantartist.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/what-if-by-libraryman.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

States' rights! We lost a war and everything for this!ftfy

[Tgo01]

ftfy

I'm talking about MY state!

[Thondalar]

Sheriff Grady Judd is a straight up Dude. I live just a county away and when he makes news it's worth the press he gets. Back up a few years ago when they put a tactical team out after a guy who killed a cop and his K-9, when the press grilled him for shooting the suspect 89 times or so and asked if that was justified he replied "They ran out of ammo"

I actually live in good ol' Polk County, Florida.

Grady Judd is the fucking man.

Not much of a father, but an excellent Sheriff.

[subzero]

Sheriff Grady Judd is a straight up Dude. I live just a county away and when he makes news it's worth the press he gets. Back up a few years ago when they put a tactical team out after a guy who killed a cop and his K-9, when the press grilled him for shooting the suspect 89 times or so and asked if that was justified he replied "They ran out of ammo"

That was awesome. Lit that dumb fucker right up.

[Candor]

Sheriff Grady Judd is a straight up Dude. I live just a county away and when he makes news it's worth the press he gets. Back up a few years ago when they put a tactical team out after a guy who killed a cop and his K-9, when the press grilled him for shooting the suspect 89 times or so and asked if that was justified he replied "They ran out of ammo"

That was completely unacceptable.

Hopefully whoever was in charge of the ammo was disciplined.

[Latrinsorm]

And you give me crap about universal surveillance leading to a police state? Allow me a lol, sir!

[Candor]

And you give me crap about universal surveillance leading to a police state? Allow me a lol, sir!

sar·casm [sahr-kaz-uhm] noun

1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

[Latrinsorm]

I didn't notice your post in between mine and subzero's (it apparently took me 45 minutes to vomit all over the NBA thread); it was directed at him.

[subzero]

And you give me crap about universal surveillance leading to a police state? Allow me a lol, sir!

I've never been against people getting what they deserve nor do I see how this is any sign of a police state. The guy that was filled with lead fully deserved it.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/10/01/florida-police-shot-suspected-cop-killer-68-times/

"You have to understand, he had already shot and killed a deputy, he had already shot and killed a K-9 and he shot and injured another deputy," Judd said by phone Saturday. "Quite frankly, we weren't taking any chances."

Ten SWAT officers surrounded Freeland on Friday as he hid beneath brush and a fallen tree in a rural area. Authorities say he raised the gun belonging to the deputy he had killed, prompting nine officers to fire.

"I suspect the only reason 110 rounds was all that was fired was that's all the ammunition they had," Judd said. "We were not going to take any chance of him shooting back."

The SWAT officers who shot Freeland have been placed on paid administrative leave, standard procedure in all police shootings.

Also released Saturday were autopsy results for the deputy, Vernon Matthew Williams, 39, which showed he had been shot eight times. He was not wearing a protective vest, but shots hit him in his right leg and behind his right ear, among other places.

Diogi, his German shepherd police dog, was also killed. The dog had been shot once in the chest.

Authorities said deputy sheriff Doug Speirs, also 39, was fired at several times and shot once in the leg. A sergeant and an officer from the Lakeland Police Department were also fired at, authorities said.

[Latrinsorm]

The guy that was filled with lead fully deserved it.And every citizen deserves to be video recorded. I said they deserve it, so they do. We can't take a chance of them committing a crime, including but not limited to shooting back.

[subzero]

And every citizen deserves to be video recorded. I said they deserve it, so they do. We can't take a chance of them committing a crime, including but not limited to shooting back.

Because being on video stops crime from happening. Assholes, killers, and rapists will still be assholes, killers, and rapists. They'll still need to be tracked down, they'll still potentially wield the firearm of the cop they murdered, and they'll still eat fucking lead.

[Latrinsorm]

Brother, you're the one who told me that one of the biggest problems with a surveillance system was that it would be abused by those in power. You tell me which power you would rather have abused at (or towards) you:

Videotaped
Shot at 110 times

[subzero]

Brother, you're the one who told me that one of the biggest problems with a surveillance system was that it would be abused by those in power. You tell me which power you would rather have abused at (or towards) you:

Videotaped
Shot at 110 times

There is a fundamental problem you aren't grasping here. I don't see a problem with that guy being shot 110 times. He killed one cop, shot another, and killed one of the K9s. I know the one guy was shot eight times and I'm pretty sure the other one caught multiple shots as well. Dude was guilty of murder, on the run as an armed threat, and he got gunned down because of it. Enter Officer Barbrady.

[Latrinsorm]

He killed one cop, shot another, and killed one of the K9s....according to the cops.

[Atlanteax]

...according to the cops.

who get the benefit of the doubt

[subzero]

who get the benefit of the doubt

No, he's probably right. The cops just wanted to gun down a black man so after two of their deputies (three if you want to count the dog) were shot they planted the murdered cop's gun on the lead-filled target and called it a day.

[Drew]

The detectives pretended to be 14 year olds. Even for the 18 year old offender, I have no sympathy.

I have sympathy for the 18 year old. If he was 18 and 2 days, then 2 days ago it was legal. The arbitrary distinction bothers me. Everyone else, fuck 'em.

[Tisket]

If I go into a bar two days shy of my 21st birthday the bar can lose it's license for serving me a drink.

[Candor]

If I go into a bar two days shy of my 21st birthday the bar can lose it's license for serving me a drink.

In my area, police cadets under 21 are used to attempt to buy liquor from bars and liquor stores. There was a story about one of the cadets who was four days before his 21st birthday. He went to a bar and was served a beer. The bar, which had been cited six weeks before for serving beer to another police cadet, lost its liquor license.

You have a draw a line somewhere. I have no sympathy for the 18 year old - I cannot imagine he didn't know what he was doing, that it was wrong, and that he could be arrested. And in any case, I believe a four year age difference is statutory rape in most states whether are not the older person is 18.

[Drew]

In my area, police cadets under 21 are used to attempt to buy liquor from bars and liquor stores. There was a story about one of the cadets who was four days before his 21st birthday. He went to a bar and was served a beer. The bar, which had been cited six weeks before for serving beer to another police cadet, lost its liquor license.

You have a draw a line somewhere. I have no sympathy for the 18 year old - I cannot imagine he didn't know what he was doing, that it was wrong, and that he could be arrested. And in any case, I believe a four year age difference is statutory rape in most states whether are not the older person is 18.

The age of consent in some states is 14. It's 12-16 throughout much of the world. I think that minors should be protected because they cannot protect themselves but the arbitrary nature of the law and the draconian penalties that are going to be applied to this 18 year old (he'll basically be unemployable for life) make me hesitant to be too self-righteous about how we should throw the book at everyone no matter the circumstances.

[Drew]

If I go into a bar two days shy of my 21st birthday the bar can lose it's license for serving me a drink.

It hasn't been two days shy of your 21st birthday for a long time babe.

[Tisket]

I hate you.

[Latrinsorm]

who get the benefit of the doubtHey man, that works for me. I'm not the one who peed my pants at the suggestion that a police officer would take my picture, that was subzero.
No, he's probably right. The cops just wanted to gun down a black man so after two of their deputies (three if you want to count the dog) were shot they planted the murdered cop's gun on the lead-filled target and called it a day.Like I said, you're the one with urine frozen to your gi. How is it possible to categorically oppose surveillance on the basis of potential abuse while gleefully endorsing magnum force? Why do you trust the police with 110 rounds but not a single roll of film?
It hasn't been two days shy of your 21st birthday for a long time babe.Eight years is a pretty long time, true.

[Tgo01]

The police should only be allowed to fire after they have been shot at first. Also police should only be allowed to fire one bullet for every bullet fired at them.

[subzero]

I'm not the one who peed my pants at the suggestion that a police officer would take my picture, that was subzero.

Like I said, you're the one with urine frozen to your gi. How is it possible to categorically oppose surveillance on the basis of potential abuse while gleefully endorsing magnum force? Why do you trust the police with 110 rounds but not a single roll of film?

I'd say having an officer take a picture is light years apart from your idea of universal surveillance. Also, it's worth noting that I don't just oppose universal surveillance because of the potential for abuse. I believe we all have a right to privacy and obviously your utopia would violate that pretty heavily. Hell, I'm rather adamantly opposed to the Xbox One bullshit and that, we can surmise, is geared towards marketing. The only problem, though, is just like your phone calls, all that shit is being recorded and stored somewhere where it can easily be used for other purposes.

At the end of the day, there has to be some trust with various justice departments. I certainly don't distrust everyone and everything. I fully condone police being properly armed. I also believe there are times when you know a person is guilty even when you can't prove it with evidence. OJ, for example. I have no doubt he killed his wife and Goldman. Can't prove it, but he did it. In the incident with the leaded man, I believe the police had the right guy. For starters, one of the fucking people that was shot by the guy (the surviving cop) was able to identify the human bullet pouch as the guy that shot him and killed the other cop and dog. I mean, I guess this guy could be lying about who shot him, right? As long as some black guy was filled with lead, why would he care if they got the wrong guy or not? I imagine they do have some sort of dash cam video or something, though. Plus, it's not like they found the wrong armed man hiding in the woods.

Let's look at some of the awesome things this guy was involved in aside from shooting and killing cops:

"In 1999 he had been arrested by the Florida Highway Patrol on charges of not having a valid drivers license, reckless driving, aggravated fleeing to elude, resisting arrest without violence, and carrying a concealed weapon".
He rolled around with false ID ("Freeland handed Deputy Speirs a fraudulently obtained drivers license bearing another man's name").
At the time of the shootings, his place was being watched under suspicion of drug trafficking.
Fast forward to 2007- "The Polk County Sheriff’s Office said today that area law enforcement agencies have arrested 19 people in Orange and Hernando counties who were connected with Angilo Freeland in a street-level drug trafficking operation."
In a press conference today, Polk Sheriff Grady Judd said Freeland served as an assassin in the drug operation. Officials suspect him of killing up to 15 people in Latin America for not paying their drug debts. They are unsure if he killed anyone in Florida, but are still investigating that angle.

Some more info on the shitbag from 2011: http://www.theledger.com/article/20110929/NEWS/110929255

The following agencies conducted investigations into the matter and since I doubt you've heard of this story prior to this thread, I'm confident you can figure out their findings:

Polk County Sheriff's Office
Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement
State Attorney's Office
FBI (due to Dept. of Justice request via some FL-based Civil Rights group)

Dude was a criminal, including at least one homicide- probably more-, and ended up dead for it. This is not a shock. This is not a loss. I don't bruise when people breathe near me, though, so maybe others feel differently.

[Candor]

The police should only be allowed to fire after they have been shot at first. Also police should only be allowed to fire one bullet for every bullet fired at them.

You're joking, right? Right?

Please say yes.

[Latrinsorm]

Also, it's worth noting that I don't just oppose universal surveillance because of the potential for abuse.That's fine, but it is a major complaint of yours. Even though every piece of info you cite is a version of "the police said"...
-the police identified him
-the police charged him (including the bizarre charge of "aggravated fleeing to elude")
-the police suspected him
-the police said he was connected
-the police declared him an assassin
...somehow this doesn't strike you as even slightly dissonant. Do you notice how there's absolutely no "the jury convicted him", or even "the grand jury indicted him"? You're kidding yourself if you think police don't abuse their discretion to use lethal force, and you're kidding yourself if you think the potential for abuse is anything but a rationalization against universal surveillance.

[subzero]

That's fine, but it is a major complaint of yours. Even though every piece of info you cite is a version of "the police said"...
-the police identified him
-the police charged him (including the bizarre charge of "aggravated fleeing to elude")
-the police suspected him
-the police said he was connected
-the police declared him an assassin
...somehow this doesn't strike you as even slightly dissonant. Do you notice how there's absolutely no "the jury convicted him", or even "the grand jury indicted him"? You're kidding yourself if you think police don't abuse their discretion to use lethal force, and you're kidding yourself if you think the potential for abuse is anything but a rationalization against universal surveillance.

What exactly do you think happened? Please tell me. We know that there is a corpse of a police officer who was shot eight times, a dead canine, another officer shot, and the corpse of the suspect riddled with bullets. If you don't want to believe anything the officials are saying, there's not much point in going on about it. Do you need to see everything firsthand? Video can be forged, so toss that out the window if we can't trust anything.

[Latrinsorm]

I am willing to give people a reasonable benefit of the doubt. You pretend that video would result in a totalitarian state but have no problem whatsoever when someone gets shot 110 times with no independent verification of their guilt.

If you'll recall, my first post wasn't "this is completely outrageous and they are lying", my first post was having a laugh.