Pre-Cap Immolation Build

[Lord Orbstar]

Armor Use.............4 (0.1X)
Physical Fitness..... 50 (0.8X)
Climbing............... 15 (0.2X)
Swimming............ 15 (0.2X)
Perception............ 33 (0.5X)
Arcane Symbols.... 66 (1.0X)
Magic Item Use..... 66 (1.0X)
Harness Power...... 66 (1.0X)
Elemental Mana Control... 60 (0.9X)
Spell Research...... 191 (2.9X)
MJE................. 80 (1.2X)
MnE................ 66 (1.0X)
Wizard .............45 (0.7X)
Elemental Lore
Fire................ 66 (1.0X)


Do you think this would be a valid arrangement for a mid-60s wizard? Mana pool would be about 218 or so. I also have a bard I could drag around for Song of Power, but the bard is level 51, so that would limit the hunting grounds he could safely sidecar in. I think CS would be around 320 with Elemental Targeting on. I have never done anything other than pure wizard, bolts for ever, so the immo build thing is new. Obviously I played with a character generator/spreadsheet and had to cut out some significant things to make this *possibly* viable. I will use a runestaff.

[Mtenda]

It's going to be tough. If I remember correctly, there is a noticeable difference in the power 519 with anything under 100 ranks of fire lore. I would also want to be able to wrack and be 2x harness power. Maybe you could drop armor to 0, PF to 24, perception to 15 and spell research to 2.5x to make up some points if you absolutely must try this build at this level but I still wouldn't recommend it.

[Lord Orbstar]

the wizard is CoL, so wracking is possible. That would give about 475 mana for a hunt, counting mana regeneration, but that is irrelevant if it takes multiple casts to kill per creature. I dont want a gimp character though...

[Lord Orbstar]

Physical Fitness.... 24 (0.4X)
Climbing...... 15 (0.2X)
Swimming..... 15 (0.2X)
Perception..... 15 (0.2X)
Arcane Symbols.... 66 (1.0X)
Magic Item Use..... 66 (1.0X)
Harness Power.... 66 (1.0X)
Elemental Mana Control.... 52 (0.8X)
Spell Research 185 (2.8X)
Major Elemental.. 80 (1.2X)
Minor Elemental.. 65 (1.0X)
Wizard.... 40 (0.6X)
Elemental Lore 101 (1.5X)
Fire.... 101 (1.5X)


I have 6x robes with 30% perm resistance to three elements, so I do not have to wear leather. This sure is cutting the character to the bone though. I have to be able to Enchant. I have a couple things I want to make 7x

[Jace Solo]

Don't neglect spell aim. You WILL have to bolt. Without that your next best bet it 409 I think, which sucks compared to 415.

I modded my 70 wiz to the IMMO build with 51 Fire Lore. Lets just say, it would be very frustrating.

[Lord Orbstar]

okay, I think I have been beaten into submission. Back to traditional bolting; anything else is unnatural.

[Buckwheet]

Could go warmage at that level pretty easily.

[Whirlin]

1) Dropping Armor use, Physical Fitness, and Perception would be suicide at 60+. You're likely hunting the blighted forest. You will get hit by every single boar charge ever til the history of always. After that, Wyneb's Spike Thorn, and pretty much every CMAN attack ever. I really don't understand why people still recommend dropping Physical Fitness to a minimum for a Wizard.
2) I found pure elemental CS to be rather weak relative to Spiritual or Sorcerer. They just had higher Elemental TDs relative to the others.
3) To maximize CS, you want MjE @ Level +20, with MnE @ Level... This means not even up to 40 Wiz ranks. If your dreams are being an Immo build and a master enchanter... too bad, points are tight.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying it's not viable, it's just not optimized relative to a more traditional pure build. To optimize this build for hunting, you'll need to remove the notion that you'll still be a good enchanter until your 70s, when points are a bit more free, and recovered from the high costs of overtraining Elemental Lores, and your just maintaining that MjE+20, and MnE=level spell research amount. Additionally, you'll need to be extra cautious around CMAN attacks, and you have little/no hope of ever doing bandit bounties effectively.

If you want to optimize your immolation build, I can help you further, but if you're looking to optimize your hunting capabilities at mid 60-s... it's not by going immo build at this level.

What race are you, and how do your stats look? Placed for growth, mid-tier, or TPs?

[lordsmo]

Dropping armor use to zero is fine, but wear light leather, not robes.

Dropping PF is less fine, and will result in a noticeable increase in aggravating insta-deaths from stone fist, boar/mino charge etc...

Also, Whirlin, on a tangent here, but your post seems to imply that perception and PF affect CMAN defense. I know PF and perception are factors in SMR defense (creature maneuvers with a hidden roll), but I didn't think it was known if they had an impact on actual CMANs with a visible roll. Is this known?

[Whirlin]

Unknown. I'll actually be able to test it in a few months when I cap.

Was saying wearing robes would be fine if pairing with Stoneskin scrolls... which would effectively make it full leather. That's pretty much the only way robes are ever relevant anymore.

[Buckwheet]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?82937-Level-65-mage-with-a-rapture-cloak

Those are the stats he will be working with if he wins that mage.

[Lord Orbstar]

Yea, she is set up for end game stats at cap. This character would pair with my 58 paladin (OHB/Shield). I have 6x full leather armor or the 6x robes, both of which can/will be ETed up to 7x. My current wizard is only 37, and is mainly used for spell ups, enchanting and hunting every once in a while. I think waiting another 10 levels to 75 before switching to Immolation would be prudent based on what I am hearing. If I had another capped character to act as a mana battery, that would be an option, but I dont so it isnt.

[Whirlin]

Yep, I already found the character, back-calculated beginning stats, evaluated TPs, and talked with Orbstar via PM to create a build.

I then realized some potential for enhancements to the Tsoran Trainer... so... I may work with Kiftus to do some enhancements, or perhaps just create a new one with the same structure/look/feel, and some of the same backend.

[Buckwheet]

You can go from 60-80 pretty easily in EN as a warmage.

[Lord Orbstar]

It looks like 125 fire lore ranks is a sweet spot to reach for. Even if another character had to finish off the kill, FOUR flares of immolation guaranteed seems like it would do quite a bit of damage and stun/knockdown fairly regularly. As long as the wizards CS could punch through with only 2.5x training in spells. I know Whirlin strongly advocates for 24 air in any build, but haste, extra disk space and a tonis bolt are not things I would use often. That makes air "nice to have" (which it is), but even without the Air Lore, Haste II is still Haste II. Honestly, Buckwheet, I do not have the weaponry for a warmage. I sold/traded off my uber weapons and only have a couple nice suits of plate armor as big ticket items which are useless to a wizard.

Armor Use... 4 (0.1X)
Physical Fitness... 65 (1.0X)
Climbing... 15 (0.2X)
Swimming... 15 (0.2X)
Perception... 20 (0.3X)
Arcane Symbols... 66 (1.0X)
Magic Item Use... 66 (1.0X)
Harness Power... 66 (1.0X)
Elemental Mana Control.. 66 (1.0X)
Spell Research... 166 (2.5X)
Major Elemental... 75 (1.1X)
Minor Elemental... 65 (1.0X)
Wizard... 26 (0.4X)
Fire... 125 (1.9X)

[Buckwheet]

It looks like 125 fire lore ranks is a sweet spot to reach for. Even if another character had to finish off the kill, FOUR flares of immolation guaranteed seems like it would do quite a bit of damage and stun/knockdown fairly regularly. As long as the wizards CS could punch through with only 2.5x training in spells. I know Whirlin strongly advocates for 24 air in any build, but haste, extra disk space and a tonis bolt are not things I would use often. That makes air "nice to have" (which it is), but even without the Air Lore, Haste II is still Haste II. Honestly, Buckwheet, I do not have the weaponry for a warmage. I sold/traded off my uber weapons and only have a couple nice suits of plate armor as big ticket items which are useless to a wizard.

Armor Use... 4 (0.1X)
Physical Fitness... 65 (1.0X)
Climbing... 15 (0.2X)
Swimming... 15 (0.2X)
Perception... 20 (0.3X)
Arcane Symbols... 66 (1.0X)
Magic Item Use... 66 (1.0X)
Harness Power... 66 (1.0X)
Elemental Mana Control.. 66 (1.0X)
Spell Research... 166 (2.5X)
Major Elemental... 75 (1.1X)
Minor Elemental... 65 (1.0X)
Wizard... 26 (0.4X)
Fire... 125 (1.9X)

I did 60-80 as a halfling warmage with a plain 5x maul and a 2x claid.

[Whirlin]

That makes air "nice to have" (which it is), but even without the Air Lore, Haste II is still Haste II.
Uhh... Haste 2 doesn't exist... 24 ranks of Air Lore is enough to bring a 6 second RT down to 1 second.

For Halflings and Dark Elves, I'd recommend Archery over THW... Much lower barrier to entry. Looking at maybe 200k for a 4x bow, and you're set.

[Mtenda]

It looks like 125 fire lore ranks is a sweet spot to reach for. Even if another character had to finish off the kill, FOUR flares of immolation guaranteed seems like it would do quite a bit of damage and stun/knockdown fairly regularly. As long as the wizards CS could punch through with only 2.5x training in spells. I know Whirlin strongly advocates for 24 air in any build, but haste, extra disk space and a tonis bolt are not things I would use often. That makes air "nice to have" (which it is), but even without the Air Lore, Haste II is still Haste II. Honestly, Buckwheet, I do not have the weaponry for a warmage. I sold/traded off my uber weapons and only have a couple nice suits of plate armor as big ticket items which are useless to a wizard.

Armor Use... 4 (0.1X)
Physical Fitness... 65 (1.0X)
Climbing... 15 (0.2X)
Swimming... 15 (0.2X)
Perception... 20 (0.3X)
Arcane Symbols... 66 (1.0X)
Magic Item Use... 66 (1.0X)
Harness Power... 66 (1.0X)
Elemental Mana Control.. 66 (1.0X)
Spell Research... 166 (2.5X)
Major Elemental... 75 (1.1X)
Minor Elemental... 65 (1.0X)
Wizard... 26 (0.4X)
Fire... 125 (1.9X)

We haven't had Haste 2 since the early GS3 days playa. I like this build much better than the original one you posted. I started my immo build at 79 with something very similar and was able to finish most hunts while wracking before running out of mana. I was 2x HP though and only 100 Fire. I later jumped to 125 in Fire and I'm pretty sure 125 actually does not guarantee 4 damage cycles even though the lore chart says it does. Still, it made the spell more lethal.

[lordsmo]

Buckwheet's right, you don't need expensive weapons to do the THW mage thing, but I understand it's not what you want to do.

I hunt OTF with a 0x claid and a +22 flaring greatsword for the constructs, the second of which could easily be replaced by eblade.

[Lord Orbstar]

Armor Use... 4 (0.1X)
Physical Fitness... 65 (1.0X)
Climbing.... 15 (0.2X)
Swimming... 13 (0.2X)
Perception... 66 (1.0X)
Arcane Symbols... 66 (1.0X)
Magic Item Use... 66 (1.0X)
Harness Power... 66 (1.0X)
Spell Aiming... 132 (2.0X)
Elemental Mana Control... 66 (1.0X)
Spell Research... 178 (2.7X)
Major... Elemental 75 (1.1X)
Minor... Elemental 75 (1.1X)
Wizard... 30 (0.5X)
Elemental Lore 24 (0.4X)
Air... 24 (0.4X)


I am going to wait until I am level 75 for the Immo build. I just went standard bolter until then. I am hunting the Keen outside Ta'Illistim (67 griffens etc). Easy as pie as a bolter. using a 4x runestaff and 6x full leather.

[Whirlin]

MnE and MjE benefits for AS/DS cap out at level... at least 513, 430, and 425... not sure, but pretty sure about 503, 507, etc.. . Better off putting those extra ranks into Wizard for 905 and 913 potency

[Lord Orbstar]

I trained up the ranks for CS. I also am done with MnE now and will only work on Wiz and MjE. I will post my CS and bolt AS and DS later.