RTCF Round 1 Results!

[Pereus]

So.... what'd everyone make off with total?

[Androidpk]

I ended up selling most of what could be sold for silvers but here is what I got.

Weighting
Tier 4 voln armor
True black ora weapon
feature concealing cloak
grapple flares on runestaff
sonic armor customization
feature alteration
2 general alterations

[neimanz1]

I got the following..

outstanding debt...

[Pereus]

Major:

An auction level chrism holder with self knowledge 303 attuned to a deity (self knowledge 303, self chrism-ing, and holy symbol for 340)

Minors:

- 5x Iasha Tier 2 Lance
- Zested lockets to show you the other persons location/information with custom design and box
- Voln Tier 3 Armor added to my current armor
- Voln Tier 2 Armor (sold)
- Voln Tier 1 Armor
- Banshee Flares to a shield (Sold)
- Ironwight Flares to a weapon (Sold)
- Signature Verbs Package

Think thats about it, been a long weekend but good times.

[thefarmer]

An orgy of excess - RtCF 2013 on 06/09/2013 11:24 PM EDT
7249
Reply
Return to Coraesine Field 2013 essentially just unraveled 20+ years of painstaking GM effort to maintain balance. Previous posts by others already pointed out the inherent unfairness of how tickets were obtained, and how a significant number of the 101 slots were selfishly hogged by the same few individuals you'll find at every pay event, with their minions only there to stack the odds of winning the few best items for their one favorite character. During the event, major wins were obviously allowed to be sold - essentially transferred - so the same uber items could be worked on multiple times to achieve completely absurd cumulative benefits. The insatiable gluttons obtaining these excesses have already gloated on the obscene number of multiple major services used in this run alone, and how they expect to be at the next two also to continue their feeding frenzy.

In the larger picture, I suppose it doesn't really matter. After all, GSIV is capped and never has been a race to some ultimate finish. Even so, I can't help being revolted by this orgy of excess. Shame on our current crop of liberal SGMs who just don't seem to understand or care why their predecessors bothered to limit anything in the name of balance. I think I'll go listen to "Anything Goes" while toasting a glass to the fond memories of Banthis and Warden.

Tarakan


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BcYTbktP7bE/UKPkCeOElDI/AAAAAAAACTU/fxpLkX3l6Ns/s1600/shame-on-you.jpeg

[Androidpk]

holy symbol for 340

What exactly does that mean?

[Fallen]

What exactly does that mean?

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/340

You can use it to store the spell. Pretty awesome.

[Pereus]

What exactly does that mean?

After a lot of figuring out, its basically just a Holy Symbol that clerics can create and cast 340 at. It depends on the clerics training for the amount of uses, the one I used I got 6 out of.

+5 bonus to Spiritual CS
+5 bonus to Bolt spell AS
Truehand effect
Spiritual CS/Bolt AS bonus equal the caster's Influence bonus / 2 (round down).
An additional Spiritual CS or Bolt AS bonus equal to the caster's Wisdom bonus / 3 (round down) when used against opposite aligned targets of the caster's patron Deity.

It has to be a cleric aligned with (in this instance) Koar to cast 340 at it though thus giving the charges. IMO its just another perk on the item. You use CHANT item to enable the charge and it goes into effect on the next cast.

[Kalishar]

LMAO at thefarmer's quote.

Major: Pick-your-own bane (Grimswarm)

Minor: Grapple flares to armor
tier 1 Voln armor
feature concealing hood

I also got quite a few weapons scripted and unlocked, got some gear lightened.... I think thats about it.

Compared to you guys I didn't get many things done at all! But I didn't pay anyone for their service slots, so all in all with all the the raffles and a few items I bought I think I spent around 6-7 million.

Overall I'm happy with what I got, though I certainly wish I had a lot more luck when it came to maaannnyyy of the minor service raffles.

[Raelee]

Major: weighting (sold)

Minors:
Acuity Flares x2 (end result: 4x/8x staff)
Regular runestaff flares
Verb Package
Custom postname title

And some smaller things, tattoo, unlocking, etc.

Most of the stuff I really wanted was on the minor list... and I got my #1 most wanted. My luck wasn't that great for most of the weekend... but it picked up on Sunday. In the end, I couldn't be happier.

[senorgordoburro]

Major:
5x HCW returner

Minor:
5x SWCW fishspine
5x/day 1109 tatoo
epic deepen cloak
tier 2 ithzir flares
lighten backsheathe
alter premie spell anklet

[Fallen]

That verb package is awesome. Anyone who landed that service should be thrilled.

[Slit-eye]

613 self-charging finger armor
ironwright flares
two alterations
small pockets added to my handwraps
fully unlocked gizwizit script
removed fully unlocked gizwizit script
a dragon tattoo
two new daggers (just fluff ones for the most part)

The first two days I received very very little and was going to throw in the towel. While I was there to roleplay a bit, it turned out everything spammed all at once and it was impossible to make it to half of the raffles/auctions/spinners. People who brought multiple accounts faired far better for being able to be present in more than one place at a time.

Like Raelee, I felt that Sunday was a bit better. Much calmer, not too much crammed into the same 15 minute block. There was the ability to hit almost everything you wanted to because of the staggering - and your odds went up. As of this posting, I consider my entry fee to have been worthwhile.

[Latrinsorm]

That verb package is awesome. Anyone who landed that service should be thrilled.I guess you don't care about 20+ years of painstaking GM effort to maintain balance at all!!!!!!!!!

[SHAFT]

How long did tarakan's post last on the officials? Gone now

[Archigeek]

How long did tarakan's post last on the officials? Gone now

Unfortunate.

[jafo]

Those people with MA accounts, paid for X tickets. Hence they get X major services. His rage is misdirected.

Selling slots is a little different.

They should just attune all item modification to the person getting the service. Suddenly, all the drama goes away.

[Tgo01]

Those people with MA accounts, paid for X tickets. Hence they get X major services. His rage is misdirected.

Normally I agree with this reasoning but when the GMs stick their fingers in their ears and say "We're selling tickets in this manner to be 'fair'" you have to kind of take a step back and laugh at the absurdity of their reasoning. Look at crb for example, what did that man get, like 10* tickets? What's that chick on officials who got like 20* tickets? Fluers or something? And this is just the first run.

*Figures may have been slightly exaggerated.

[Jarvan]

Major - Nothing

Minor - Disarm returning, sold to Kitsun and epic deepening.

Sonic alter is not a minor in my book, neither was the gold ring transport scripts. Sonics happen every month, or used to. And the gold ring thing will happen a lot as well.

So all in all, a shit fest for me really.

200 raffles, name not drawn once.

[Methais]

Major - Nothing

Wasn't everybody guaranteed one major service?

[Jarvan]

Wasn't everybody guaranteed one major service?

Yes, if they took splitting, asg change, or banes that are extremely limited in what you could hunt really.

other then that, no they were not. they were LIMITED to one major win per account, not really guaranteed one.

[Methais]

Yes, if they took splitting, asg change, or banes that are extremely limited in what you could hunt really.

other then that, no they were not. they were LIMITED to one major win per account, not really guaranteed one.

I suddenly give much less of a shit about not getting a ticket.

[Vagabondbard]

I got
x7 HCP asg 15 fusion and added 20 percent electricity resistance 10 percent nature
+22 Masterfully sighted Longbow to +27
feature concealing cloak
+25 Runestaff with +6 to spell aim +4 mana recovery from +9 defender to +19 defender
Grapple flares on a +12 dex, +3 spell aim, +5 spirit mana control bonus runestaff
grapple flares on x5 full plate
unlocked scripts for a warblade (2)
hurdragorfs weapon unlocked
Enhancive swapping str to wisdom
sonic alter

I think thats it...oh and debt.

GBB

[Jarvan]

Granted, if you had enough silvers, you could buy almost any slot you wanted.

[Zaigh]

Majors:
Enchant slot (won one and bought one)
Giantbane crit weighting

Turned a 5x veil iron tetsubo w/ HCW, giantbane acid flares, and unlocked anfelt scripts into a 7x veil iron tetsubo w/ HCW, 2 giantbane crit weightings, and unlocked anfelt scripts. This means it is now MCW vs giants. I need to get a regular weighting slot at the August run and this thing should be maxed out with weighting just shy of claidhmores vs giants.

Minors:
Grapple flares added to 8x fusion full plate
Signature verb package
EZ Script package
Custom perfume
Uncommon rune learned - abyran'sa
Custom nightmare
5k silver weightlessness added to fully unlocked Gostahl kit
Yansio scripts added to some MA pants
Enhancive recharging
Enhancive permanancing
2 Enhancive swapping
2 unlocked white-rune weapons
2 unlocked Felthrop weapons
1 set (boots and gloves) fully unlocked Feets of Fury Gizwizit UAC gear
Custom nail lacquer and bottle
Tier 1 voln armor added to a set of 4x doubles
feature alteration
Grapple flares added to a lor runestaff (bought)
Weapon and Armor Scripts added to my hem (bought)
2 farm tools unlocked
4 alterations
3 lighten/deepens

[Jarvan]

Majors:
Enchant slot (won one and bought one)
Giantbane crit weighting

Turned a 5x veil iron tetsubo w/ HCW, giantbane acid flares, and unlocked anfelt scripts into a 7x veil iron tetsubo w/ HCW, 2 giantbane crit weightings, and unlocked anfelt scripts. This means it is now MCW vs giants. I need to get a regular weighting slot at the August run and this thing should be maxed out with weighting just shy of claidhmores vs giants.

Minors:
Grapple flares added to 8x fusion full plate
Signature verb package
EZ Script package
Custom perfume
Uncommon rune learned - abyran'sa
Custom nightmare
5k silver weightlessness added to fully unlocked Gostahl kit
Yansio scripts added to some MA pants
Enhancive recharging
Enhancive permanancing
2 Enhancive swapping
2 unlocked white-rune weapons
2 unlocked Felthrop weapons
1 set (boots and gloves) fully unlocked Feets of Fury Gizwizit UAC gear
Custom nail lacquer and bottle
Tier 1 voln armor added to a set of 4x doubles
feature alteration
Grapple flares added to a lor runestaff (bought)
Weapon and Armor Scripts added to my hem (bought)
2 farm tools unlocked
4 alterations
3 lighten/deepens

No offense.. but the above makes me kinda cry inside considering I got 4 if you count Sonic and gold ring.

[Pereus]

No offense.. but the above makes me kinda cry inside considering I got 4 if you count Sonic and gold ring.

That dude put his work in for that believe me. I worked non stop and got a quarter of that list, damn.

[Jarvan]

That dude put his work in for that believe me. I worked non stop and got a quarter of that list, damn.

True, I did pass up entering some things. But not many.

[Zaigh]

No offense.. but the above makes me kinda cry inside considering I got 4 if you count Sonic and gold ring.

No offense taken, I admit it is a lot.


That dude put his work in for that believe me. I worked non stop and got a quarter of that list, damn.

Thanks man. I had about 7 or 8 hours of sleep the entire weekend and forgot to nap before things kicked off Friday. But I tried to let anyone know where things were going on if I saw them asking. Sorry if I missed anyone that asked!

BTW, what does the outdoors look like? hehe

[msconstrew]

Majors:

Enchant (purchased)
Custom bane (sold)
Weighting (sold)

Minors:

T3, T2 and T1 voln flares on existing armor (2 for me, 1 for a friend; either purchased or given to me)
Uncommon demon rune
Ithzir flares (given to a friend)
Enhancive swapping (sold one and gave another to a friend)
Grapple flares for runestaff (purchased)
Super bubble flares (purchased)
Feature concealing hood
Unlocked Shurley handwrap
EZ script package (purchased)

I got two good majors thank God, but i couldn't get spun for anything on the minors. So i had to buy the stuff i wanted.

[nocturnix]

Curious how much people sold weighting/padding for?

[Originate]

55m for padding

[crb]

Normally I agree with this reasoning but when the GMs stick their fingers in their ears and say "We're selling tickets in this manner to be 'fair'" you have to kind of take a step back and laugh at the absurdity of their reasoning. Look at crb for example, what did that man get, like 10* tickets? What's that chick on officials who got like 20* tickets? Fluers or something? And this is just the first run.

*Figures may have been slightly exaggerated.

I actually bought all 100 tickets, all of you who think you attended this run are mistaken, you're actually all just different aspects of my own personality.

[crb]

Curious how much people sold weighting/padding for?

I paid someone 55m for padding, sold weighting for 50.

[Tsk Tsk]

That verb package is awesome. Anyone who landed that service should be thrilled.

I don't have words to express the joy. The choices were amazing too!

[msconstrew]

Weighting sold for 50-60m.

[Jarvan]

I don't have words to express the joy. The choices were amazing too!

I had to buy a slot for a friend, she is insanely pleased with it. Looking at it, it would take like 12000 PP's to get the same done really to an item. Roughly what, 60 mill+?

[Tsk Tsk]

I had to buy a slot for a friend, she is insanely pleased with it. Looking at it, it would take like 12000 PP's to get the same done really to an item. Roughly what, 60 mill+?

Not a clue about the "value" but I'm sure it'd go for a LOT on the open market.

Inurtia wags one finger at Septimius in a no-no-no gesture.

Inurtia tilts her head at Septimius, throwing her hands up in joyous agreement.

Inurtia's expression is ponderous as she chews on one side of her lip.

Inurtia lets loose a loud whoop of delight.

Inurtia begins to breathe with increasing rapidity, panic clearly overwhelming her.

Placing her hand over her heart, Inurtia sighs dramatically.

Inurtia covers her mouth, then gives a small, discrete cough.

Inurtia's shoulders droop in a dispirited show of emotion.

-Those are what Inurtia chose. She only got 8 because she already had a sig verb.

[Ardwen]

My one take on this weekend, when the minors are better then many of the majors they too should have been limited, watching the same people win over and over when you cant even win you "guaranteed" major is a little disheartening, Plus side I walked out with almost all of the half billion silvers I walk in with, people selling slots really need to not sell them quietly and to the first person that offers, I laughed at some of the prices people accepted for slots that created items worth several hundred million silvers. If someone offers you 30 million in advance if ya may win sometyhing, odds are its worth much more then that.

[Tsk Tsk]

My one take on this weekend, when the minors are better then many of the majors they too should have been limited, watching the same people win over and over when you cant even win you "guaranteed" major is a little disheartening, Plus side I walked out with almost all of the half billion silvers I walk in with, people selling slots really need to not sell them quietly and to the first person that offers, I laughed at some of the prices people accepted for slots that created items worth several hundred million silvers. If someone offers you 30 million in advance if ya may win sometyhing, odds are its worth much more then that.

Some GM's/Merchants go CRAZY when people sell their spots, which I've never understood, so folks are probably just trying to avoid upsetting GM's by keeping it hush-hush but still selling the item.

[msconstrew]

My one take on this weekend, when the minors are better then many of the majors they too should have been limited, watching the same people win over and over when you cant even win you "guaranteed" major is a little disheartening, Plus side I walked out with almost all of the half billion silvers I walk in with, people selling slots really need to not sell them quietly and to the first person that offers, I laughed at some of the prices people accepted for slots that created items worth several hundred million silvers. If someone offers you 30 million in advance if ya may win sometyhing, odds are its worth much more then that.

I think they could at least mitigate this issue by having a hard cap on raffle wins per account at the festival. This wouldn't apply to general services like GALD, of course, but to things designated as minors.

[crb]

Some GM's/Merchants go CRAZY when people sell their spots, which I've never understood, so folks are probably just trying to avoid upsetting GM's by keeping it hush-hush but still selling the item.

It is out of respect to the GM. I tried to keep all my such activity on lnet, some people insisted on whispering in front of the GM though (they can see those guys).

But I was very public on lnet, if of course you didn't use lnet you were out of luck.

Another aspect is trust. Most people are honest, but not everyone, and there is a degree of trust required in the transaction. When I needed to sell or buy something, even if it was for/with an alt, I advertised it under Virilneus, for name recognition. If Ardwen had been Ardwen, and not who he brought, he may have had more luck. The thread Kerl started was very helpful too, I had lots of people initiate contact with me because they had seen the thread.

[Kitsun]

Speedy and clear communication really helps. Bird in hand is worth two in the bush. When the merchant is asking for the item, you're not going to start screaming, "Hey, anyone want to pay more for this?!"

Either you whisper the winners if they're selling, mention you'd like to buy a spot, or be active in the chat. Not sure how active lich selling was for this event. I certainly noticed many/most things up for sale.

[Ardwen]

Hard to bring Ardwen when I wasnt able to get a ticket for various reasons, Barring a serious swing in my feelings on the event wont even attempt to get one for the next two runs. Luckily had a friend that was unable to attend for personal reasons, allowing me to attend, however watching people behave much like piranhas isn't my sort of fun. I expected the second and third events to be more sedate, but after watching this one I actually expect them to be much worse. Especially since most of the GMs were actively encouraging people to buy and sell most wins if they did nto want them.

[Ardwen]

and Kitsun several times I asked a person if they were selling, never got an answer and found out later they sold for well under half what I was willing to offer. So Viril is quite right name means alot, and Clearly people were willing to spend insane silvers on stuff that I considered marginal values, did I get the service I wanted? No. Did I get the one I expected, Yes

[Jarvan]

Like I had mentioned earlier.. 1 major and 3 minors per account.

There was listed like 273 minors at least. More like 300+ tho.

That way everyone get something, instead of 3 or 4 people getting 20 things, and 5 or so people getting 2 or 3.

And I would feel this way even if I had won everything I entered. I didn't even want most, I was entering just to win something. Or help out a friend.

[sentral]

I enjoyed my self at the festival

Major - Weighting slot (sold)

Minors -

Tier 1 Voln Flares (added to my Monks crit padded robes)
Tier 2 Voln Flares (bought spot and then added to my monks robes)
Impure Coraesine Weapon - had a no-dachi made

got a bunch of Alters

I could have won more but I'am still pleased how it went. thrilled with my coraesine weapon.

[Tgo01]

I actually bought all 100 tickets, all of you who think you attended this run are mistaken, you're actually all just different aspects of my own personality.

That's just silly. I do believe you bought all of the tickets and you are paying other people to pretend they went to the event so no one would know better.

[Klinor]

Got the opportunity to add weighting to my splitting axes for 7x MCW plus DCW bandit bane.

[milesalpha]

To sum it up, the rich got richer. Game balance be damned.

[Androidpk]

To sum it up, the rich got richer. Game balance be damned.

I went in with only 1m in my bank and walked out with over 100. If anything the rich got poorer.

[jafo]

Normally I agree with this reasoning but when the GMs stick their fingers in their ears and say "We're selling tickets in this manner to be 'fair'" you have to kind of take a step back and laugh at the absurdity of their reasoning.

I think they meant "fairer than other ways" vs "perfectly fair". They were probably honestly doing the best they could think of at the time.

[Tgo01]

I think they meant "fairer than other ways" vs "perfectly fair". They were probably honestly doing the best they could think of at the time.

Their foresight is pretty weak if that's the case. Also it's not too late to change the way they do things for the next two runs so one has to ask themselves; why haven't they announced any changes for the way tickets are handled for the next two runs? No one can honestly tell me they believe this was more fair than other possible ways.

[SHAFT]

I went in with only 1m in my bank and walked out with over 100. If anything the rich got poorer.

The real value in this is acquiring items like neimanz's one-of-a-kind blink spear. It's one-of-a-kind as of now at least. Those types of items and the super weighted and padded items will appreciate in value.

I see nothing wrong with selling the slots though. That's the way it's been done for years. If you go in wanting to buy services you're going to have competition. I find it hard to believe people didn't expect the piranha-like behavior.

[Ryvicke]

Fair? You guys sound like Chairman Maobama. Socialists.

I was surprised that the auctioning of spots wasn't more in the open. It seemed like people got one offer whisper and just went with it. I was expecting the chat to be full of auctioned spots.

[msconstrew]

The real value in this is acquiring items like neimanz's one-of-a-kind blink spear. It's one-of-a-kind as of now at least. Those types of items and the super weighted and padded items will appreciate in value.

I see nothing wrong with selling the slots though. That's the way it's been done for years. If you go in wanting to buy services you're going to have competition. I find it hard to believe people didn't expect the piranha-like behavior.

I did not find the behavior all that appalling or piranha-like. I thought the GMs were not so much encouraging the sale of slots as they were reacting to the reality that slots will be sold. The only thing that really bothered me was when people were taking bids out loud, in front of the merchant, which I felt was a little much.

[milesalpha]

I went in with only 1m in my bank and walked out with over 100. If anything the rich got poorer.

Think it through.

[Ardwen]

If they wanted to be fair they'd let accounts put in for tickets then draw 100 tickets from all people interested, with some percentage only being available to premium. I've done this many times for sporting events and there are far fewer complaints percentagewise then this method caused. And its not like a drawing is what you'd call difficult to setup, and it would allow people that couldnt possibly be there for the 1 minute each batch they are for sale to get a chance

[Ryvicke]

Think it through.

I don't think it's as simple as you're stating. The event is pretty much a guarantee of increasing your wealth. That's why tickets are so hard to get. Everyone with a ticket gets richer*

*Except people that pay ridiculous amounts of silver to create something that could never sell for the actual silver that's gone into it, but those people know what they're getting into and want one-of-a-kind items.

[wizgem3]

I got the major that I wanted which was padding

Major:
Padding 6x MDP to XDP Auction 90 mil - Cost was 82 mil
Trollbane (bought) for 17 mil

Minor:
Enhansive swapping
Fire flare on weapon (bought)
Rotating flare (bought)
Greater black ora (bought)
Grapple flare on armor
Fire flare on fusion runestaff
Reg bubble flare
T2 Voln on armor

[Archigeek]

Definitely agree with Ardwen on ticket distribution. A drawing would be far better and far less stressful. The current method was FUBARed.

As for the event, they wouldn't work on any of my gear, but I am overall happy because I got some fantastic stuff for people I care about, and lucked into something cool for myself too.

[Androidpk]

I think they should keep everything as is.

[milesalpha]

Heh the rep comment was lovely. Truly stupid and unsigned, of course. Realism is not bitterness, I am just really afraid that game balance just went off a cliff. In pen and paper days, we would have called this a Monty Haul campaign.

It is interesting that some just count their silver and declare it as fair. Ardwen reviewed the ticket problem nicely so I won't even bother with that. My concern is the ripple effect it will have on game play. If critters must now deal with uber characters (that huge pile of self chargers for example) what will that mean for us regular folks. This will likely be particularly apparent during storylines where they won't want one or two characters to handle an invasion alone.

There is an easy way to handle this. Stop charging for basic, if you want me to be part of the unwashed rabble, ok, but don't charge me to to be an extra. Exclude them completely from these events, make it premium only (giving premium some sorely needed value). A move like this would increase the player base and allow them to expand that sad little store into a moneymaker. Otherwise I fear we took a big jump towards a sliding playerbase, dominated by MAs who will leave when the rabble have given up (wouldn't be much fun for them then, they need an audience). Slippery slope.

[milesalpha]

I think they should keep everything as is.

Heh to be honest, that would be the fair thing to do. Wouldn't be right to give the first group a major advantage over a second group paying the same amount. Which means they will probably change things of course.

[Fallen]

Heh the rep comment was lovely. Truly stupid and unsigned, of course. Realism is not bitterness, I am just really afraid that game balance just went off a cliff. In pen and paper days, we would have called this a Monty Haul campaign.

It is interesting that some just count their silver and declare it as fair. Ardwen reviewed the ticket problem nicely so I won't even bother with that. My concern is the ripple effect it will have on game play. If critters must now deal with uber characters (that huge pile of self chargers for example) what will that mean for us regular folks. This will likely be particularly apparent during storylines where they won't want one or two characters to handle an invasion alone.

There is an easy way to handle this. Stop charging for basic, if you want me to be part of the unwashed rabble, ok, but don't charge me to to be an extra. Exclude them completely from these events, make it premium only (giving premium some sorely needed value). A move like this would increase the player base and allow them to expand that sad little store into a moneymaker. Otherwise I fear we took a big jump towards a sliding playerbase, dominated by MAs who will leave when the rabble have given up (wouldn't be much fun for them then, they need an audience). Slippery slope.

Gnimble just died. Your argument is invalid.

[Valyss]

i entered all but a handful of raffles, and only ended up with:

Major:
Weighting (sold)

Minor:
Enhancive switch

:(

[Buckwheet]

Gnimble just died. Your argument is invalid.

He is back?

[Fallen]

He is back?

Probably sold. I was being blithe, but my point is it doesn't matter how godly your gear is, you will still be limited to the level cap and training cap. Padding doesn't negate many types of attacks in this game. You can only do so much before your character is killed. This isn't a Banaltra storyline scenario. It is about people who have invested untold millions of silver into their gear to stand out from the crowd ... and those that are jealous of their ability to do so.

[Fallen]

I figured here is as good as any place to post this:



As the orchestrater of the revelry in question, game balance was certainly applied in the approvals and permissions of Returning to Coraesine Field. Festivals like these don't come around often, the last one being in 2009.

It's no secret that players sell services, silvers, items, etc. It's been going on as long as GemStone has been around. The only difference then is, players made a hell of a lot more money back on AOL than anyone makes now, heh. We can either turn a blind eye and act oblivious, or we can just tolerate it to a certain level. Players enjoy the upgrade modification options that GemStone has to offer. Customization is one of the things that separates GemStone from the sea of other games out there. It's why I always came back to playing it.

Services such as the ones offered aren't anything new to GemStone though. We upped the bar a little, but it didn't come without a price. The handful of people that you clearly call out certainly emptied their bank accounts. But earning silvers is hard work. Even if they didn't earn it in game, if they are buying coins off players, they likely work hard outside the game to have the disposable income to toss around. Again, I'm not going to pretend it doesn't happen. It does. But festivals are a form of draining silver in the game, to create an economy. Without things like this, the economy would eventually collapse, and the merchant side of the game makes up a large percentage of this game.

Most the players who got an item completely specced out know this is likely the last time they'll have a shot. And no, this isn't me saying a festival like this will never happen again. It's just that some of those items have hit our caps. Players can only scoop up what they are offered. No one took anything off someone else's plate that attended the event. Some players decided the silvers for selling their services were their "win."

Anyway, I'm not responding because I'm being defensive. Being a representative of Simutronics as an independent contractor, and an SGM of GemStone IV, I feel it's my duty to offer some insight.


~Wyrom, not-quite-a-liberal SGM

[crb]

I did not find the behavior all that appalling or piranha-like. I thought the GMs were not so much encouraging the sale of slots as they were reacting to the reality that slots will be sold. The only thing that really bothered me was when people were taking bids out loud, in front of the merchant, which I felt was a little much.

Ya, its disrespectful. We have tools to keep it private, so keep it private.

[SHAFT]

Well said wyrom

[milesalpha]

... and those that are jealous of their ability to do so.

All I can do is roll my eyes. What is it about Americans that makes them think that anyone who disagrees with them is jealous?

[crb]

I don't think it's as simple as you're stating. The event is pretty much a guarantee of increasing your wealth. That's why tickets are so hard to get. Everyone with a ticket gets richer*

*Except people that pay ridiculous amounts of silver to create something that could never sell for the actual silver that's gone into it, but those people know what they're getting into and want one-of-a-kind items.

Precisely, I don't think people who think the rich get richer understand how the world works.

It is like remodeling your kitchen. If you put 100 grand into your kitchen you've not gotten richer, you won't get 100% of that back when you sell.

In my case I bought one item for like 186 million that is impossible for me to ever sell, and I spent another 200 whatever million building armor that I already had 100+m into probably. There is no way I could sell it for what I put into it. I'm certainly not richer. I'm happy though.

Paying coins for something doesn't make you richer. At best you're exchanging equal coin wealth for item wealth. More likely though you exchange coin wealth for slightly less item wealth.

[Fallen]

All I can do is roll my eyes. What is it about Americans that makes them think that anyone who disagrees with them is jealous?

It's something involved with having to listen to the rest of the world whining about everything we do, I imagine.

[milesalpha]

Ah well, it will be interesting to see what develops, although I think we have plenty of evidence already. Good luck for the next round.

[milesalpha]

It's something involved with having to listen to the rest of the world whining about everything we do, I imagine.

Bad imagination.

[crb]

Heh the rep comment was lovely. Truly stupid and unsigned, of course. Realism is not bitterness, I am just really afraid that game balance just went off a cliff. In pen and paper days, we would have called this a Monty Haul campaign.

It is interesting that some just count their silver and declare it as fair. Ardwen reviewed the ticket problem nicely so I won't even bother with that. My concern is the ripple effect it will have on game play. If critters must now deal with uber characters (that huge pile of self chargers for example) what will that mean for us regular folks. This will likely be particularly apparent during storylines where they won't want one or two characters to handle an invasion alone.

There is an easy way to handle this. Stop charging for basic, if you want me to be part of the unwashed rabble, ok, but don't charge me to to be an extra. Exclude them completely from these events, make it premium only (giving premium some sorely needed value). A move like this would increase the player base and allow them to expand that sad little store into a moneymaker. Otherwise I fear we took a big jump towards a sliding playerbase, dominated by MAs who will leave when the rabble have given up (wouldn't be much fun for them then, they need an audience). Slippery slope.

Basic doesn't need to be free, but they do need a free/cheap tier below basic. We're definitely in agreement on that.

[SHAFT]

Silvers are easy to come by these days. The real wealth in GS are the high end items. Anyone can hop on the PC and purchase silvers.

[milesalpha]

Basic doesn't need to be free, but they do need a free/cheap tier below basic. We're definitely in agreement on that.

Ok, I am intrigued. But what would be "below basic"? Would we have to walk around naked?

Actually, it just leaped at me, capped at XXX? (50, 75 or 100 and no further TPs)

[milesalpha]

Silvers are easy to come by these days. The real wealth in GS are the high end items. Anyone can hop on the PC and purchase silvers.

To use a quote from the 70s...Weed will get you through times of no money, better than money will get you through times of no weed.

[Sylvan Dreams]

All I can do is roll my eyes. What is it about Americans that makes them think that anyone who disagrees with them is jealous?

Reality?

The issues that people bring up always come down to the same things. It's not "fair" to get more than one ticket, or more than one service, or to walk in with a few million and multiply that, or how some people got more than others. You have to hustle to come out with a lot of services.

Your issue is what? That you want to play gemstone for free? Why? Did you even look at the spells on the self charger list? Or even at how often they charged up? A couple times per day. Not only that, but it's spells that are already available via scrolls, and whose access is multiplied ten-fold by scroll infusion. So someone got 40 1x per 8 hour self charge bravery items. Who cares? Pure potions are like 10k a pop. Bravery scrolls can be found, purchased from a pawnshop or from another player and infused to 40 charges - and often multiple times before they expire. You sound like you're feeling left out because you didn't go to the event despite paying a monthly subscription fee. Pay events are pay events - they're extra. There's lots of free events you can go to. If you don't want to plunk down the time and money to go to an event, fine, but why would you (general you) deserve the same as someone who is paying more?

How many of the people with the awesome allegedly game-breaking gear will even show up at a storyline AND take the limelight?

MAing = attention whoring? Seriously? Otherwise, what else is "Otherwise I fear we took a big jump towards a sliding playerbase, dominated by MAs who will leave when the rabble have given up (wouldn't be much fun for them then, they need an audience)." Do you even realize how many times you probably benefitted from a player having and running multiple accounts? Not all MA'ers play the same way.

[milesalpha]

Reality?


Well this started silly and went downhill. Please dont attempt to put words in my mouth.

[Fallen]

That's odd. It looked to me like she was pulling quotes from your previous posts.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Well this started silly and went downhill. Please dont attempt to put words in my mouth.

I can totally see how quoting and answering your question would do that.

[milesalpha]

Sigh, children try taking it in context. I will use oa simple example. He claims I equated MAs with attention whoring. What I was pointing out that Mas do what they do to be a significant part of a larger world. If that world dries up, there will not likely want to do what they do all alone. Meanwhile, he put the worst possible spin on it, and accused me of something I didn't even hint at.

Then there is this...

"sound like you're feeling left out because you didn't go to the event despite paying a monthly subscription fee. Pay events are pay events - they're extra"

A figment of his imagination.

Also, I can confidently assert that I have not benefitted from an MA, Sabreon will back me up on that. (I don't allow him to rescue me, he is a good guy in real life and I would likely love to sit down and smoke a joint with him. But we have a fundamental difference in the way we play the game, so I don't let him affect me, other than te swarms of course).

[drunksolo]

Some of the merchants did specifically say 'You have X minutes to either sell the slot or bring me your item.' I think if they do that, do it in the open, otherwise keep it to lnet.

It would be a totally different event if they tried to block players from selling slots. Not a bad one, I don't think, just a different one.

[crb]

Ok, I am intrigued. But what would be "below basic"? Would we have to walk around naked?

Actually, it just leaped at me, capped at XXX? (50, 75 or 100 and no further TPs)

You could do a couple things.

1. No xxx.
2. No access to certain cmans, if you're a pure no access to spells over 20.
3. Limit it geographically, Vaalor only for instance.
4. No locker.
5. No society.
6. No house.
7. Inability to cast spells on others.

[milesalpha]

You could do a couple things.

1. No xxx.
2. No access to certain cmans, if you're a pure no access to spells over 20.
3. Limit it geographically, Vaalor only for instance.
4. No locker.
5. No society.
6. No house.
7. Inability to cast spells on others.

Hmmm, good ideas. And it would likely foster a desire to upgrade as they reach certain limits.

[Tgo01]

Ya, its disrespectful. We have tools to keep it private, so keep it private.

Why keep it private? How is it disrespectful? I think pretending the GM is an idiot and making a deal behind their back in an effort to make it seem as though you didn't sell the service is disrespectful. Come on peoples, be honest. "Yeah I just won this service, who will give me top silver for my spot? Going once, twice, SOLD! Okay GM, deal with him."

[Buckwheet]

...What I was pointing out that Mas do what they do to be a significant part of a larger world. If that world dries up, there will not likely want to do what they do all alone.

I don't do what I do to be a significant part of the larger world. I do what I do because I find it fun and enjoyable. Can you help me out and provide your character name(s) so that my MAing ass(even if I am only logged in solo) pays you no attention?

Its nothing personal, just I don't like ruining the fun of the "solo purists" and I wouldn't want to give you an unfair advantage by using my multiple accounts to help out(even when soloing.)

[milesalpha]

I don't do what I do to be a significant part of the larger world. I do what I do because I find it fun and enjoyable. Can you help me out and provide your character name(s) so that my MAing ass(even if I am only logged in solo) pays you no attention?

Certainly, I am the old and cranky Aenalar. I hope you will provide the same courtesy.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Sigh, children try taking it in context. I will use oa simple example. He claims I equated MAs with attention whoring. What I was pointing out that Mas do what they do to be a significant part of a larger world. If that world dries up, there will not likely want to do what they do all alone. Meanwhile, he put the worst possible spin on it, and accused me of something I didn't even hint at.

Then there is this...

"sound like you're feeling left out because you didn't go to the event despite paying a monthly subscription fee. Pay events are pay events - they're extra"

A figment of his imagination.

Also, I can confidently assert that I have not benefitted from an MA, Sabreon will back me up on that. (I don't allow him to rescue me, he is a good guy in real life and I would likely love to sit down and smoke a joint with him. But we have a fundamental difference in the way we play the game, so I don't let him affect me, other than te swarms of course).

I didn't claim - I quoted you.

People MA for a variety of reasons, including, the dwindling player base.

Unless you're interviewing every player you interact with, you have NO idea who is MA'ing and who isn't. Not everyone MA's their accounts together. You can assert that you haven't knowingly or intentionally, but that's all.

[Buckwheet]

Certainly, I am the old and cranky Aenalar. I hope you will provide the same courtesy.

Sorry I edited my post before you quoted it. I am not sure what you are asking for? You want a list of ALL my characters or just the ones I can play at the same time?

[Tgo01]

Sorry I edited my post before you quoted it. I am not sure what you are asking for? You want a list of ALL my characters or just the ones I can play at the same time?

I want a list of all of your characters, the amount of silvers in their respective bank accounts, all of their high end items and the color of their eyes.

[milesalpha]

Sorry I edited my post before you quoted it. I am not sure what you are asking for? You want a list of ALL my characters or just the ones I can play at the same time?

Seems only fair to do them all. I tend to stop for a lot of corpses or to help unasked, (lichers just zip right over them) so I woudn't want to insult you by stopping to help.

[milesalpha]

I didn't claim - I quoted you.

People MA for a variety of reasons, including, the dwindling player base.

Unless you're interviewing every player you interact with, you have NO idea who is MA'ing and who isn't. Not everyone MA's their accounts together. You can assert that you haven't knowingly or intentionally, but that's all.

You interpretted what I said, as you have done again. I never said MA were attention whores, you made that up on your own. I get it you disagree with me, you can wander away now.

[crb]

Hmmm, good ideas. And it would likely foster a desire to upgrade as they reach certain limits.

Yup I'm full of them.

[milesalpha]

Yup I'm full of them.

Even the pink robes?

[crb]

Why keep it private? How is it disrespectful? I think pretending the GM is an idiot and making a deal behind their back in an effort to make it seem as though you didn't sell the service is disrespectful. Come on peoples, be honest. "Yeah I just won this service, who will give me top silver for my spot? Going once, twice, SOLD! Okay GM, deal with him."

It is disrespectful in two ways.

1. It creates screen scroll noise which makes it harder for them to work.
2. If you're doing a job, you want to do the job for someone who appreciates it, not someone just looking to make a buck. I imagine. Maybe not every GM cares, but some might, and they work for peanuts, so lets give them the benefit of the doubt. Even though technically the item is going to someone who appreciates it by proxy, it can still feel cheap perhaps.It takes very little effort to keep it private, so why not do so?

[crb]

Even the pink robes?

Not my alter, I found them that way.

[SHAFT]

Why keep it private? How is it disrespectful? I think pretending the GM is an idiot and making a deal behind their back in an effort to make it seem as though you didn't sell the service is disrespectful. Come on peoples, be honest. "Yeah I just won this service, who will give me top silver for my spot? Going once, twice, SOLD! Okay GM, deal with him."

In a perfect world...

[Buckwheet]

Seems only fair to do them all. I tend to stop for a lot of corpses or to help unasked, (lichers just zip right over them) so I woudn't want to insult you by stopping to help.

I hit the max character limit of posting. Sorry. :(

[diethx]

Sigh, children

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/200/420/BRTky.jpg?1321408042

[Kitsun]

This fun thread turned into a heaping pile of shit.

[Allereli]

This fun thread turned into a heaping pile of shit.

At least the Savior of Gemstone has unmasked himself!

[Cyphier]

Is there Voln armor available off the shelf? If so I'd like to get my hands on some plate if someone would kindly pick some up for me.

[Buckwheet]

This fun thread turned into a heaping pile of shit.

You fucking MAing piece of trash, why do you have to ALWAYS draw attention to yourself? Attention Whore looking to be apart of the larger world alert!

[Haldrik]

This fun thread turned into a heaping pile of shit.

No kidding. Have to read through all the garbage and whining to check out the cool gear. All the whiners/bitching should go start a thread about it and keep it contained there.

[milesalpha]

Good time to leave the thread, I guess I have rattled a few too many cages when they have to resort to the ad-homs. Ah well.

[Buckwheet]

Good time to leave the thread, I guess I have rattled a few too many cages when they have to resort to the ad-homs. Ah well.

I will send you the google doc in PM with the list. 18 accounts is quite a few and I need to make sure I get them all.

[milesalpha]

I will send you the google doc in PM with the list. 18 accounts is quite a few and I need to make sure I get them all.

Don't bother, I think I can identify you easily enough.

[sentral]

so whats going on with the idols from the festival? they going to nerf them?

[Jarvan]

I do find it Funny that Wyrom said they did not plan to change any services offered. And yet changed services offered.

[diethx]

Good time to leave the thread, I guess I have rattled a few too many cages when they have to resort to the ad-homs. Ah well.

You mean like calling people children? Yeah, true.

[Fallen]

You mean like calling people children? Yeah, true.

Don't forget insulting Americans and telling people to "wander off". He's all class, this one.

[Whirlin]

Actually... all of these characters are mine. I currently play 99.9% of the player base of Gemstone. To help sell my facade, I also created these forums, and created a bunch of entities to script responses with. They almost appear to be real humans with real emotions. But they are in fact my puppets. This is all just to mess with YOU, and make you think that you're interacting with a large bunch of people.

[jafo]

Just make item modifications player attuned....

Then you fix the:

guy buys most of the spots
wyrom points to it and says "lul, success, see, he has less silvers"
guy then sells the items for tons of silvers on PC
guy then sells people the silvers to buy the items too


My stake is. Nothing. I have good items already. Don't want a ticket. Not going to buy one for further runs. I'm just a technical architect who is often amused by game companies who avoid the easy solutions for things.

[Jarvan]

Actually... all of these characters are mine. I currently play 99.9% of the player base of Gemstone. To help sell my facade, I also created these forums, and created a bunch of entities to script responses with. They almost appear to be real humans with real emotions. But they are in fact my puppets. This is all just to mess with YOU, and make you think that you're interacting with a large bunch of people.

So that's how you got to be in charge of Paupers!

[Gilralyn]

I really enjoyed the event and won a few different things. I didn't buy or sell anything. I went in with 20m and came out with 500k. I managed maybe 2 - 3 hrs sleep per night, and I am paying for it now with an unproductive work day!

Major: Permabless (raffle)

Other stuff:
super bubble flare (raffle)
signature verb package (spun) - not many people in the room when she spun (at least when I was there)
tier 1 voln scripts (spun)
feature concealing hood added to cloak (spun)
sonic alter (everyone who was there got one)
white-rune weapon unlocked (everyone who was there got one ~ 2 am or so?)

There was definitely much luck involved on most of the wins, but I also believe with hard work you can create your own luck. If I had been lazy, I would have missed out on about half the stuff I received.

[Pereus]

8 pages or arguing about buying slots guys? C'mon.

This thread is supposed to be about what people won. I want to see what I missed out on during the scramble.

[Archigeek]

Just make item modifications player attuned....

Then you fix the:

guy buys most of the spots
wyrom points to it and says "lul, success, see, he has less silvers"
guy then sells the items for tons of silvers on PC
guy then sells people the silvers to buy the items too


My stake is. Nothing. I have good items already. Don't want a ticket. Not going to buy one for further runs. I'm just a technical architect who is often amused by game companies who avoid the easy solutions for things.

Player attuned sucks. Over the years, the game changes and so does what we find interesting. Attuned just means no one else gets to use that cool toy once you've grown tired of it.

I honestly am thinking that the best solution is nearly all auction format. I know those who don't have a lot of coins may disagree, but an all auction format actually drives the price downward, because people only bid on what they want, and they pay what it's worth to them, not what it's worth to someone else. And since you have to compete against others who want the same thing, it further increases the chance that a given item actually ends up in the hands of someone who wants it. Spinners just mean someone gets a payday most of the time. You can use me as an example, I got spun for a very cool item. Would I have bid on it at auction? No, I had other things I wanted more. Whether or not I keep it is another story.

So auction all the majors and spin the minors. That would be my suggestion. The high end minors were pretty cool, and no complaints there, but I am not so sure they should have been minors. It added a fun element to the event that might have otherwise been kind of bleh after you won your major, so at least that was cool.

[Archigeek]

Ok, here's what I won:

Padding for the missus (major)
One more item that is under review (bought, major)
Voln armor T1 (minor) for a friend
Voln armor T2 (minor) for a friend
Super-cool vambrace that shoots stuff (minor) pew pew pew!
One weapon made into a defender (minor)
One alteration
2 lightenings
2 magic items recharged

I also had some great conversations with people I knew well and with some people I didn't. It's always a plus to make new friends.

[Aluvius]

All auction events with each account limited to 1 item can be fun, ie HSN tent auctions, but they have to be set up right. First there needs to be more items than there are bidders. Second, unbid items need to come back around once all of the fresh items have been put up. Third, the items need to either all be clearly identified or all be mysterious. Fourth, someone has to stop bullshit items, ie crumbly 20 use black roses thank you first EG auction, from being entered into the auction pools. This last one is probably the hardest for Simu to accomplish since we all know that there's always someone there that just can't fucking help themselves when it comes to entering booby prizes into paid event prize pools.

Also, I liked it when they instituted lock out perious for silver transfers/account creations like they did for a few of the HSN auctions. I know some don't, but its okay because you win gemstone most of the rest of the time anyway. :)

[crb]

Player attuned sucks. Over the years, the game changes and so does what we find interesting. Attuned just means no one else gets to use that cool toy once you've grown tired of it.

I honestly am thinking that the best solution is nearly all auction format. I know those who don't have a lot of coins may disagree, but an all auction format actually drives the price downward, because people only bid on what they want, and they pay what it's worth to them, not what it's worth to someone else. And since you have to compete against others who want the same thing, it further increases the chance that a given item actually ends up in the hands of someone who wants it. Spinners just mean someone gets a payday most of the time. You can use me as an example, I got spun for a very cool item. Would I have bid on it at auction? No, I had other things I wanted more. Whether or not I keep it is another story.

So auction all the majors and spin the minors. That would be my suggestion. The high end minors were pretty cool, and no complaints there, but I am not so sure they should have been minors. It added a fun element to the event that might have otherwise been kind of bleh after you won your major, so at least that was cool.

Welcome to the dark side.

[Archigeek]

Welcome to the dark side.

I've pretty much always felt that way, particularly about attunement. Some items make sense attuned (the giftbox items for example), but when a really cool item is released in limited numbers and it's attuned... well look at what happened with the impure coraesine raffle, tons of entrants who would really never use the thing except rarely at best. What's the point? I'm glad someone won it who will likely use it, but the odds were against that. At least in an auction, an attuned item will be won by someone who uses it, but even so I think it's short sighted. Raffles/spins/auctions... over the years I've leaned more towards auctions, though for years raffles weren't even an option anyway. I loved the pavilion auctions for example.

[Androidpk]

I've pretty much always felt that way, particularly about attunement. Some items make sense attuned (the giftbox items for example), but when a really cool item is released in limited numbers and it's attuned... well look at what happened with the impure coraesine raffle, tons of entrants who would really never use the thing except rarely at best. What's the point? I'm glad someone won it who will likely use it, but the odds were against that. At least in an auction, an attuned item will be won by someone who uses it, but even so I think it's short sighted. Raffles/spins/auctions... over the years I've leaned more towards auctions, though for years raffles weren't even an option anyway. I loved the pavilion auctions for example.

If you are paying money for an account and you are paying money for a ticket to the event then it is your prerogative to enter whatever raffle you want even if it's just to collect something and not actually use it.

[Latrinsorm]

Sigh, children try taking it in context.For someone who gets visibly bothered by (what you believe to be) people putting words in your mouth, you are surprisingly blasé about doing the same to every MAer in the game.

[Archigeek]

If you are paying money for an account and you are paying money for a ticket to the event then it is your prerogative to enter whatever raffle you want even if it's just to collect something and not actually use it.

I didn't say it wasn't. I'm suggestion that auctions mean more items go to people who will use them. In which case it will still be the prerogative of the winner to use it or locker it or sell it.

[Androidpk]

I didn't say it wasn't. I'm suggestion that auctions mean more items go to people who will use them. In which case it will still be the prerogative of the winner to use it or locker it or sell it.


Auction means more items will go to people with tons of silvers. Look at the rune tattoo for example. How many would love to use that but don't have 175m silvers? I can see auctioning some items off but there needs to be a balance and I think Simu hit pretty damn good this time around.

[Ryvicke]

When did those rune tattoos even go out? I thought I was only offline for about 10 hours total and had figured it right. Was it Saturday morning?

[Androidpk]

I think a little after 12am on Saturday. 1 raffle, 1 spin, 1 auction.

[Archigeek]

Auction means more items will go to people with tons of silvers. Look at the rune tattoo for example. How many would love to use that but don't have 175m silvers? I can see auctioning some items off but there needs to be a balance and I think Simu hit pretty damn good this time around.

What happens with an all auction format is that the prices come down. Sure, some stuff goes for rediculous amounts, but other stuff goes very cheap, and since it is all getting auctioned and everyone has just one spot, people choose carefully. I do however agree that this event's mix of methods was pretty good and was a lot of fun for a lot of people.

[Androidpk]

I don't think that is always true. For example, the true black ora auction sold for 20m. I asked peopled that had bid 15, 18 ect if they wanted my slot for 12m and they declined. Sometimes with auctions it turns into a competition just to outbid the other people.

[crb]

Auction means more items will go to people with tons of silvers. Look at the rune tattoo for example. How many would love to use that but don't have 175m silvers? I can see auctioning some items off but there needs to be a balance and I think Simu hit pretty damn good this time around.

No, actually. An auction format where it is still 1 per account means the exact same number of items go to people. True story, in such an auction, do you know what the last thing sold sells for? 1 coin (or whatever the GM's mb). There are no bidders left to drive it up.

I'm really getting tired with having to explain this so often, this argument has gone over on the officials repeatedly. Yes, in an all auction format the more coins you have the more options you have. If you're poor, you won't win tonis boots. However, everyone will be able to afford something, because wins are limited, and since people will only bid on things they want, more prizes will find happy homes sooner. I think on Nilandia's site you can find tables of EG09 and 06 auction prizes, many with winning bid prices. Go checkout how low some of them are.

In a pure auction where Ardwen can buy as many items as he wants, you'd be right, people would be shut out, but in a limited auction where everyone just gets 1 item it is an entirely different dynamic.

[diethx]

Oh ok, so the last item will be cheap. The rest could potentially be artificially jacked up due to people simply trying to outbid one another.

Cool fucking story, crb. I think we're all really getting tired of you "having to explain this", too.

[Ryvicke]

I don't think that is always true. For example, the true black ora auction sold for 20m. I asked peopled that had bid 15, 18 ect if they wanted my slot for 12m and they declined. Sometimes with auctions it turns into a competition just to outbid the other people.

Yeah this--I saw people auctioning the same raffle or spin spot get so much less than what the actual auction then would go for. It was... interesting.

[Ryvicke]

No, actually. An auction format where it is still 1 per account means the exact same number of items go to people. True story, in such an auction, do you know what the last thing sold sells for? 1 coin (or whatever the GM's mb). There are no bidders left to drive it up.

I'm really getting tired with having to explain this so often, this argument has gone over on the officials repeatedly. Yes, in an all auction format the more coins you have the more options you have. If you're poor, you won't win tonis boots. However, everyone will be able to afford something, because wins are limited, and since people will only bid on things they want, more prizes will find happy homes sooner. I think on Nilandia's site you can find tables of EG09 and 06 auction prizes, many with winning bid prices. Go checkout how low some of them are.

In a pure auction where Ardwen can buy as many items as he wants, you'd be right, people would be shut out, but in a limited auction where everyone just gets 1 item it is an entirely different dynamic.

I know from looking at Nilandia's pages that some things did go very very cheap. But what is preventing you or Ardwen bidding against each other by proxy via someone else's major win? Say by giving that person some silvers to do so?

I'm not saying I have anything against the format they used. I think it was a fine mix and the one item that got me excited (glove bow) had nothing but an auction. Which, okay, understood.

[Fallen]

Why wouldn't rich people use proxy bidders in an all auction setting?

[Latrinsorm]

I don't think that is always true. For example, the true black ora auction sold for 20m. I asked peopled that had bid 15, 18 ect if they wanted my slot for 12m and they declined. Sometimes with auctions it turns into a competition just to outbid the other people.That's not how Adam Smith would model human behavior, therefore your argument is invalid.

[Androidpk]

No, actually. An auction format where it is still 1 per account means the exact same number of items go to people. True story, in such an auction, do you know what the last thing sold sells for? 1 coin (or whatever the GM's mb). There are no bidders left to drive it up.

I'm really getting tired with having to explain this so often, this argument has gone over on the officials repeatedly. Yes, in an all auction format the more coins you have the more options you have. If you're poor, you won't win tonis boots. However, everyone will be able to afford something, because wins are limited, and since people will only bid on things they want, more prizes will find happy homes sooner. I think on Nilandia's site you can find tables of EG09 and 06 auction prizes, many with winning bid prices. Go checkout how low some of them are.

In a pure auction where Ardwen can buy as many items as he wants, you'd be right, people would be shut out, but in a limited auction where everyone just gets 1 item it is an entirely different dynamic.

Oh please. As if you ever tire of telling people what you think. Good one, dude.

[Zaigh]

With the later auctions this was kinda true. the self charging defender that was auctioned off went for 350k on Sunday. Kinda crazy for a self-charger, eh?

[diethx]

With the later auctions this was kinda true. the self charging defender that was auctioned off went for 350k on Sunday. Kinda crazy for a self-charger, eh?

It's possible that the idols had some sort of influence on this.

[Slit-eye]

It was more the total lack of people willing to risk their shot at a lucrative blink slot. There were four people competing in the auction before hand for the defensive self charger, and it went for 40m. The spells available for it put the idols to shame as well.

[Shaps]

I love how 3 events of this type, and the specilization that it offers some of the richest people (buying spots, outbidding anyone else, MA'ing), is that.. our community is so small now.. when they go to sell the items they've created/obtained... it's really like 20-30 people just shuffling stuff back and forth. There really is not a way for people starting out to have a chance at events like these (unless they get extremely lucky and one of said rich people pay them a bit of $).

Just saying that most items are now just locker nostalgia, traded between the same 20-30 folks over and over, or just sits on the boards for months because no one else can afford them.

I'm all for the effort people have put in to aquire their items (whether real $ or earned coins), but it is getting to a point where the controlled market, and lack of solid buyer base, will every really allow for reasonably priced items again.

Be smart everyone.. liquidate all of your items.. sell at $16 per for the upcoming RtCF (since a lot of big spenders used up their silvers), wait 6-7 months, come back.. take said real $ and buy silver at 7-8mil/per. Double your silvers and wait for it to happen again.

[diethx]

So people starting out can't enter raffles like everyone else? Or get spun? Or join a list, if those are still used? Or enter a room first (or close to first)?

I am so confused by your post, Shaps. No, people starting out probably can't afford to buy some of the items that were made during this event. A lot of people who aren't just starting out can't afford them either. Sorry, what is your point again?

[Shaps]

Yes they can enter raffles, get spun, join a list first, or enter a room first. With regards to that, people that have been playing this game for a long time and have relationships, knowledge of events, know what to look for, have immense scripts built (Droughtman's anyone?) understand what the hell is going on at a very fast pace... moreso than anyone starting out or typically more than the casual player.

As for what I was saying, if you can't understand what I wrote, that is your issue. I am not taking aim at what occurs.. I am making an observation about the increasingly controlled market of high end goods vs. those people that can actually afford them vs. a declining player base.

Once again... there are 20-30 (probably a couple more that stay more quiet or buy a lot of coins-but you see the names over and over on the PC and in game, so not hard to figure out) real merchants that control the higher end items. As that gap widens (which is fine) you will see less and less affordable anything really of decent quality. Pretty simple concept.

[Archigeek]

I know from looking at Nilandia's pages that some things did go very very cheap. But what is preventing you or Ardwen bidding against each other by proxy via someone else's major win? Say by giving that person some silvers to do so?

Certainly this happens, but you'll find far fewer combinations of people willing to give up their only auction spot combined with people willing to pay for the spot AND the auction price of an item, as opposed to a raffle spot win.

[Thondalar]

So people starting out can't enter raffles like everyone else? Or get spun? Or join a list, if those are still used? Or enter a room first (or close to first)?

I am so confused by your post, Shaps. No, people starting out probably can't afford to buy some of the items that were made during this event. A lot of people who aren't just starting out can't afford them either. Sorry, what is your point again?

His point is "rich people get more cool shit than poor people".

Not sure why he needs to tell us that, but whatever.

-Thond

[Haldrik]

Yes they can enter raffles, get spun, join a list first, or enter a room first. With regards to that, people that have been playing this game for a long time and have relationships, knowledge of events, know what to look for, have immense scripts built (Droughtman's anyone?) understand what the hell is going on at a very fast pace... moreso than anyone starting out or typically more than the casual player.

As for what I was saying, if you can't understand what I wrote, that is your issue. I am not taking aim at what occurs.. I am making an observation about the increasingly controlled market of high end goods vs. those people that can actually afford them vs. a declining player base.

Once again... there are 20-30 (probably a couple more that stay more quiet or buy a lot of coins-but you see the names over and over on the PC and in game, so not hard to figure out) real merchants that control the higher end items. As that gap widens (which is fine) you will see less and less affordable anything really of decent quality. Pretty simple concept.

Hmmm. This sounds like total bullshit to me without any actual shred of evidence and/or remotely thought out. I also don't see any evidence of a declining player base. You can't keep using 2000 as an example of "declining." Once something declines, it stops declining. I would say that GS has probably gained a few extra players over the years. Or at least MA. :)

[Shaps]

Thond,
The two replies so far are making me laugh. I'm not telling you "rich people get more cool shit than poor people". I'm making the point, as stated twice now, that because of the vast increase in item prices... and extreme consolidation of interesting items among 20-30 people... that those people end up trading among themselves. This is a simple concept.

Your bank account has no bearing on me. Mine has none on you. I've stated I don't care what occurs. BUT, it's a simple fact that as prices go up on these items, with a declining player base, all of those selling very high priced items... will not sell as often or as much (unless to the other 20-30 rich people). These are all just statements of inevitable consequence.

[Androidpk]

Yes they can enter raffles, get spun, join a list first, or enter a room first. With regards to that, people that have been playing this game for a long time and have relationships, knowledge of events, know what to look for, have immense scripts built (Droughtman's anyone?) understand what the hell is going on at a very fast pace... moreso than anyone starting out or typically more than the casual player.

As for what I was saying, if you can't understand what I wrote, that is your issue. I am not taking aim at what occurs.. I am making an observation about the increasingly controlled market of high end goods vs. those people that can actually afford them vs. a declining player base.

Once again... there are 20-30 (probably a couple more that stay more quiet or buy a lot of coins-but you see the names over and over on the PC and in game, so not hard to figure out) real merchants that control the higher end items. As that gap widens (which is fine) you will see less and less affordable anything really of decent quality. Pretty simple concept.

New people can do just fine at these types of events. As I stated earlier I went in with 1m silvers to my name and walked out a happy camper. This was also the first event of this kind that I've ever been to. People with more expendable money are always going to have an advantage. There is no way around that.

[diethx]

Yes they can enter raffles, get spun, join a list first, or enter a room first. With regards to that, people that have been playing this game for a long time and have relationships, knowledge of events, know what to look for, have immense scripts built (Droughtman's anyone?) understand what the hell is going on at a very fast pace... moreso than anyone starting out or typically more than the casual player.

As for what I was saying, if you can't understand what I wrote, that is your issue. I am not taking aim at what occurs.. I am making an observation about the increasingly controlled market of high end goods vs. those people that can actually afford them vs. a declining player base.

Once again... there are 20-30 (probably a couple more that stay more quiet or buy a lot of coins-but you see the names over and over on the PC and in game, so not hard to figure out) real merchants that control the higher end items. As that gap widens (which is fine) you will see less and less affordable anything really of decent quality. Pretty simple concept.

So what you're saying is, the more time you spend doing something, the better you get at it.

That is fucking insane. You are absolutely off your rocker.

[Shaps]

Haldrik,
You have your opinion and I have mine. But I'd lean towards thinking mine is correct.

All,
I wonder why such the backlash on, what I consider, a very obvious situation. I've said in all 3 posts so far... I don't care how much or how rich people get. And good on them for earning/buying their way to it.

How what I've stated isn't apparent or "not thoughtout", baffles me. As I think your reply Haldrik, is "not thought out and sounds like total bullshit", to use your phrase.

[Slit-eye]

A: There is no vast increase in item prices. That is always relative to the value of the silver coin.
B: These festivals are doing more to spread out interesting items, create "middle tier" items, and spreading coin to the less fortunate ends of the community than not.
C: Where is this declining player base?
D: What you just claimed as an inevitable consequence isn't only speculation in the reality you've painted, it's purely anecdote in what the game's state actually is.

It actually sounds like laziness or apathy in the merchanting world mixed with jealousy talking. That would be why everyone seems to be confused by your "correct thinking", and most likely why you are baffled to what is actually going on.

[Sile]

So how much did the bow go for? who got it?

[diethx]

250m. Dunno who.

[Shaps]

Wow.. it's like people don't read what I'm writing, get offended before thinking about it at all... here is all I've said... Barney style for you all:

1. The majority of the high end sell/trade market is controlled by 20-30 people.... Agree or Disagree?
2. The player base has declined and is declining (300-350 on and a lot of them are MA'ing; 2-3 just by myself depending on the day).... Agree or Disagree?
3. As rare/unique/nicer items prices go up, fewer people can afford them.... Agree or Disagree?
4. As prices go up on said items, fewer and fewer people can afford them.... Agree or Disagree?
5. New players or those not as dedicated to silver aquisition have a much harder time at events like these due to lack of funds (Unless they get lucky as I've already stated).... Agree or Disagree?
6. Lastly... again.. I don't care about what anyone has.. I'm making a simple statement of fact on the increasing price of things VS the consolidation of items/silver VS the stagnant/declining player base.

So now you all can continue to be upset or not know how to comprehend something.

[Tgo01]

1. The majority of the high end sell/trade market is controlled by 20-30 people.... Agree or Disagree?

I'd say it's like 19 people tops.


2. The player base has declined and is declining (300-350 on and a lot of them are MA'ing; 2-3 just by myself depending on the day).... Agree or Disagree?

Actually I think lately it's been increasing, if only slightly. That could just be more people MAing though.


3. As rare/unique/nicer items prices go up, fewer people can afford them.... Agree or Disagree?

As things get more expensive fewer people can afford things? Get the fuck out!


4. As prices go up on said items, fewer and fewer people can afford them.... Agree or Disagree?

Get the fuck out!

[Nattor]

I'm fairly certain we don't have a declining player base. Unless you use the scientologist method of defining decline. If something stays near the same and doesn't rise or fall, its declining.

[Haldrik]

Wow.. it's like people don't read what I'm writing, get offended before thinking about it at all... here is all I've said... Barney style for you all.

If you think your shit smells like roses, and everyone else tells you it smells like shit. Who do you think is right?

[Shaps]

A: There is no vast increase in item prices. That is always relative to the value of the silver coin.
B: These festivals are doing more to spread out interesting items, create "middle tier" items, and spreading coin to the less fortunate ends of the community than not.
C: Where is this declining player base?
D: What you just claimed as an inevitable consequence isn't only speculation in the reality you've painted, it's purely anecdote in what the game's state actually is.

It actually sounds like laziness or apathy in the merchanting world mixed with jealousy talking. That would be why everyone seems to be confused by your "correct thinking", and most likely why you are baffled to what is actually going on.

Sliteye,
Appreciate the cognitive counterpoint. At least this I am able to discuss.

The one odd thing is out of any reply I get, or as some of you seem to imply, that there is any "apathy or jealousy" mixed in with what I'm saying. I did not attend, but bought a couple of smaller things from people that I wanted. I also don't care about anyone elses wealth or whatever. I can also buy what I want when I want.. I just choose not to spend $1000's of real dollars to do so.

A. There is an increase in item prices... Go back a bit and compare when silver was 7-9 per mil. Now it's at 12-14 per mil. But the cost of items in Millions (Silver) has stayed the same, or gone up in instances.
B. These festivals are offering a lot of great services and a lot of people are getting them.. so out of 100 people at this event (already heard of 1 person with 4 accounts and another with ?8 I think), so down to 85 or so real people (if you think no one else had 2 tickets or more to this). The items are nice and more unique then over the past few years and with 2 more runs that will definetly help. But "spreading coin" goes to the "get lucky" in my statement... You have to win a big spin or raffle to get coins flowing your way.
C. The player base is stagnant at best. I've been playing near 18 years, and it's at a mark. You get some new every now and then. You get people leaving. It's holding/declining depending on the day. Trying to count the true number of individuals on any given day is impossible with how many of us MA.
D. It's not... as fewer people have more and more silver. As the higher tier items are only affordable by those people. Then those items become less available to anyone else. That concept is pretty simple.

Rebuttal time.

[Shaps]

If you think your shit smells like roses, and everyone else tells you it smells like shit. Who do you think is right?

Haldrik,
It's people like you that I really enjoy. It took like what, 2 posts?, to get you to the base level of an acting like an idiot. Make a reasonable argument to what I'm saying like some have done. Then I might actually care what you think of me.

I'm open to be proven wrong. Unfortunately, you have proven yourself incapable.

Been awhile since posted, but this thread has livened things back up.

[Haldrik]

Haldrik,
It's people like you that I really enjoy. It took like what, 2 posts?, to get you to the base level of an acting like an idiot. Make a reasonable argument to what I'm saying like some have done. Then I might actually care what you think of me.

I'm open to be proven wrong. Unfortunately, you have proven yourself incapable.

Been awhile since posted, but this thread has livened things back up.

You aren't worth any sort of lengthy post. You would just keep repeating the same shit you've already said 5x in this thread. Nothing new here. Self delusional egotistical poster at 12 o clock.

[Androidpk]

Wow.. it's like people don't read what I'm writing, get offended before thinking about it at all... here is all I've said... Barney style for you all:

1. The majority of the high end sell/trade market is controlled by 20-30 people.... Agree or Disagree?
2. The player base has declined and is declining (300-350 on and a lot of them are MA'ing; 2-3 just by myself depending on the day).... Agree or Disagree?
3. As rare/unique/nicer items prices go up, fewer people can afford them.... Agree or Disagree?
4. As prices go up on said items, fewer and fewer people can afford them.... Agree or Disagree?
5. New players or those not as dedicated to silver aquisition have a much harder time at events like these due to lack of funds (Unless they get lucky as I've already stated).... Agree or Disagree?
6. Lastly... again.. I don't care about what anyone has.. I'm making a simple statement of fact on the increasing price of things VS the consolidation of items/silver VS the stagnant/declining player base.

So now you all can continue to be upset or not know how to comprehend something.


Generally you are just wrong. There were only a handful of auctioned items. Most of them went out via raffles with some random spinning. The tickets for the raffles, for the most part, were very cheap. Ranging from 5000 to 75000. Two particular raffles went for 1m each. A new person could get the required amount of silvers to enter the majority of raffles in a week or less.

[Shaps]

You aren't worth any sort of lengthy post. You would just keep repeating the same shit you've already said 5x in this thread. Nothing new here. Self delusional egotistical poster at 12 o clock.

That really the best you can do Haldrik?

Does reading more than 2 or 3 lines from a drive-thru menu hurt your brain? Can you not actually make a reasonable argument due to your lack of cognitive ability?
Did you have to get your sister to type things for you, because it's to hard to concentrate for longer than 30 seconds?

See, two of us can do this.. all day long.. or all night long... Lionel Richie style..

Now stop being an internet tough guy and just "shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh", if you don't have anything to say that matters.

[Slit-eye]

Haldrik's right. Most of your points are not fact, and those that are do not have data to back them up or are flat out fabrications:

1. Controlled by 20-30 people? I'd say a dozen. Maybe 20 at the outside if you wish to include new money.

2. The player base may or may not declining. You can see evidence of a decline only by watching the reaction of Simutronics. "Stat" being smaller on average has nothing to do with number of accounts, and if you've seen active players dwindling (which isn't happening), check to see if Football season is starting or if "Game of Thrones" is on. If your hunting partners aren't around as much causing you to draw this conclusion, try moving to an area where more people just migrated to. There's far too much involved here for you to make a blanket statement like you have. Empirical data however, can only come from the Simutronics Billing dept.

3. As rarer items prices go up, more of those dozen people mentioned have more coins available. Item pricing always follows what the economy can support - the entire premise of supply and demand. If you're saying "less of the middle tier" can afford them, you're no longer talking about the "controlled rare/unique" items. You're talking about uncontrolled items. If your statement is "as prices go up, less of the middle tier can afford uncontrolled items", you're completely off your rocker since the pricing of uncontrolled items is dictated expressly by the amount of coins in the pocket of the consumer. It sounds as though this judgement is come to because there is an item you want out there, and the guy selling it won't let it go for less than something you believe to be too high. That's life in the middle tier.

4. Answered above. I'm hoping this wasn't you being too emotional to notice you asked the same question twice.

5. New or casual players having harder times at events like these is a complete fallacy, and demonstrates that you either did not attend - or that you spent the first three days of the event with your head in the sand. The majority of the "less fortunate" attendees immediately sold off major slots for very high amounts. We're talking 50-80 mil for padding, etc. They then had more than enough money to purchase dwindling minors they had their eyes on, shop to their hearts content, or in some cases purchase a major they actually had their hearts set on. Only five or six attendees at the end were left holding the bag with specified creature banes, or consolation cloaks... and when questioned (I asked personally) three of those declared that they would've been smarter to do what the others did and sell a raffled/won major early on. Are you saying that only a dozen or so of the lower coin persuasion came to the festival? That's what you imply when you say "the others were lucky"... and it certainly doesn't reflect reality.

6. You believe yourself to be making a simple statement of fact in regards to price increase and its relation to item consolidation and it's relation to a dwindling population. One issue is that all three of these things are mutually exclusive concepts that have a correlation at best and therefore cannot be measured as "A influences B". Another issue is that your statements were not simple by any stretch (although I may be a complete retard), I found them to be convoluted at best. A third issue is the assumptions made to include that there's a dwindling population.

I don't want to say that your Jenga puzzle of logic has tumbled, as it was made of imaginary blocks to begin with.

[Shaps]

Haldrik's right. Most of your points are not fact, and those that are do not have data to back them up or are flat out fabrications:

1. Controlled by 20-30 people? I'd say a dozen. Maybe 20 at the outside if you wish to include new money.

----So the market is controlled by fewer people than I estimated, by your assertion. Hence proving my point from my very first post. Ty.

2. The player base may or may not declining. You can see evidence of a decline only by watching the reaction of Simutronics. "Stat" being smaller on average has nothing to do with number of accounts, and if you've seen active players dwindling (which isn't happening), check to see if Football season is starting or if "Game of Thrones" is on. If your hunting partners aren't around as much causing you to draw this conclusion, try moving to an area where more people just migrated to. There's far too much involved here for you to make a blanket statement like you have. Empirical data however, can only come from the Simutronics Billing dept.

-----You are right. Only Simu can tell us. But when every night you long on.. year after year.. and see the numbers go down.. that is declining. It seems stagnant now at a consistent 300-350 most times. As stated though, so many of us (myself included), MA that it is hard to tell how many real players are on. I am not the first to say this or think it. My guess would be around 200-250 real players and that would be a guess. Me seeing night after night 300-350 is a fact.

3. As rarer items prices go up, more of those dozen people mentioned have more coins available. Item pricing always follows what the economy can support - the entire premise of supply and demand. If you're saying "less of the middle tier" can afford them, you're no longer talking about the "controlled rare/unique" items. You're talking about uncontrolled items. If your statement is "as prices go up, less of the middle tier can afford uncontrolled items", you're completely off your rocker since the pricing of uncontrolled items is dictated expressly by the amount of coins in the pocket of the consumer. It sounds as though this judgement is come to because there is an item you want out there, and the guy selling it won't let it go for less than something you believe to be too high. That's life in the middle tier.

-----The law of supply and demand is tilted in this instance. The one thing about this is how much of an influence RL $ has on the coin market. Coins in game are not real. $ is. Coins are arbitrary digits. But because of how the market has evolved, those "19-20" in your terms, can to an extent control the coin market. Either through coins in the bank, or valuation of higher tier items. Again.. I can buy what I want. My statements were started to discuss this issue. So please get off of the "jealousy" kick you think I have, it demeans your arguments.

4. Answered above. I'm hoping this wasn't you being too emotional to notice you asked the same question twice.

5. New or casual players having harder times at events like these is a complete fallacy, and demonstrates that you either did not attend - or that you spent the first three days of the event with your head in the sand. The majority of the "less fortunate" attendees immediately sold off major slots for very high amounts. We're talking 50-80 mil for padding, etc. They then had more than enough money to purchase dwindling minors they had their eyes on, shop to their hearts content, or in some cases purchase a major they actually had their hearts set on. Only five or six attendees at the end were left holding the bag with specified creature banes, or consolation cloaks... and when questioned (I asked personally) three of those declared that they would've been smarter to do what the others did and sell a raffled/won major early on. Are you saying that only a dozen or so of the lower coin persuasion came to the festival? That's what you imply when you say "the others were lucky"... and it certainly doesn't reflect reality.

---Thank you for confirming another point I made in my original post. I stated you "had to get lucky" to get the silvers flowing your direction. And that is the truth. You, in your words, confirmed that for me. Again this gets tilted due to the apparent MA'ing that occurred and cross trade that occurs between people with flush bank accounts. I am happy that some people walked out with a large increase to their bank account due to selling their spots to others.

6. You believe yourself to be making a simple statement of fact in regards to price increase and its relation to item consolidation and it's relation to a dwindling population. One issue is that all three of these things are mutually exclusive concepts that have a correlation at best and therefore cannot be measured as "A influences B". Another issue is that your statements were not simple by any stretch (although I may be a complete retard), I found them to be convoluted at best. A third issue is the assumptions made to include that there's a dwindling population.

----Covered the player base couple times, moving on. I could do better in explaining my thoughts, thank you and I'll try to be more clear. Lastly though.. these all have a direct correlation on one another and are not mutually exclusive.

I don't want to say that your Jenga puzzle of logic has tumbled, as it was made of imaginary blocks to begin with.


And time for.... rebuttal.

[Tgo01]

And time for.... rebuttal.

And then?

[Slit-eye]

It's not worth it. I wasted too much time with this as it is. It takes a pure ego to take proof that one's thoughts are wrong and interpret them as "proving my point". Re-read what I said as many times as it takes, Shaps. Debates require two valid arguments - not invalid statements of emotion being corrected by the masses. Your debate is "Me versus the world"... or as a fundamentalist would paraphrase "Me vs. reality".

[thefarmer]

It's not worth it. I wasted too much time with this as it is. It takes a pure ego to take proof that one's thoughts are wrong and interpret them as "proving my point". Re-read what I said as many times as it takes, Shaps. Debates require two valid arguments - not invalid statements of emotion being corrected by the masses. Your debate is "Me versus the world"... or as a fundamentalist would paraphrase "Me vs. reality".

.... and then?

[crb]

Wow.. it's like people don't read what I'm writing, get offended before thinking about it at all... here is all I've said... Barney style for you all:

1. The majority of the high end sell/trade market is controlled by 20-30 people.... Agree or Disagree?

I just want to make sure I'm one of those people, because if I'm not... there will be hell to pay. I did not spend 12 years going to evil medical school not to be on the illuminati list. I better be on the list. I don't care enough about this argument to wade into the rest of it and repeat shit I've said elsewhere I'm sure, I just want to make sure I'm on the list. People on the list get all the best hookers and considering I'm a 4 foot tall stocky 412 year old dwarf I need help with the ladies.

[Fallen]

Oh, I am quite sure V does ..things to that fairy he keeps chained in his beard. Unspeakable things.

[Shaps]

I just want to make sure I'm one of those people, because if I'm not... there will be hell to pay. I did not spend 12 years going to evil medical school not to be on the illuminati list. I better be on the list. I don't care enough about this argument to wade into the rest of it and repeat shit I've said elsewhere I'm sure, I just want to make sure I'm on the list. People on the list get all the best hookers and considering I'm a 4 foot tall stocky 412 year old dwarf I need help with the ladies.

CRB,
Added to the 21st spot. Hookers and blow in the VIP bathroom. Cmon in.

[whiteflash]

Haldrik's right. Most of your points are not fact, and those that are do not have data to back them up or are flat out fabrications:

I don't want to say that your Jenga puzzle of logic has tumbled, as it was made of imaginary blocks to begin with.

I didn't want to quote it all, but I agree with all of what Slit-Eye said. Now can you jellies stfu and let us get back to reading gemstone porn with people posting all their new cool shit.

As for me:

Major: Been posted- pike yadda yadda

Minors: 5x Major black ora lance, which is actually vera cool
Acuity to runestaff (sold to help pay for said pike, ty buyer)
Couple alters
Maybe a one or two other minor services I missed.

Definitely angry at myself for missing the uncommon runes?!? Can't believe I did that. I'd also like to thank the two people who loaned the coins for the pike, between my brother and I we only had 30% of what it cost.

I look forward to seeing what others make down the road.

[Shaps]

It's not worth it. I wasted too much time with this as it is. It takes a pure ego to take proof that one's thoughts are wrong and interpret them as "proving my point". Re-read what I said as many times as it takes, Shaps. Debates require two valid arguments - not invalid statements of emotion being corrected by the masses. Your debate is "Me versus the world"... or as a fundamentalist would paraphrase "Me vs. reality".

And again to the personal attacks somehow.

In reply to your post.. I used your own words to validate the points I'd made in previous posts. How that is based on emotion I have no idea. I have no "me vs. reality". I have a statement I make, which you in your statement confirm or make my statistics stronger, and I use your statements and say thank you.

How is that emotional? You all need to relax a little.

[Thondalar]

Thond,
The two replies so far are making me laugh. I'm not telling you "rich people get more cool shit than poor people". I'm making the point, as stated twice now, that because of the vast increase in item prices... and extreme consolidation of interesting items among 20-30 people... that those people end up trading among themselves. This is a simple concept.

Your bank account has no bearing on me. Mine has none on you. I've stated I don't care what occurs. BUT, it's a simple fact that as prices go up on these items, with a declining player base, all of those selling very high priced items... will not sell as often or as much (unless to the other 20-30 rich people). These are all just statements of inevitable consequence.

Your entire theory is debunked by the fact that top end items are cheap as fuck right now. Just sayin'.

-Thond

[senorgordoburro]

I really don't feel like reading through almost 200 reply's of what I can imagine is a lot of arguing, but this is my view on these events.

The more the 'richest' players pimp out their gear, the less likely they are to sell it, and they will eventually cap their items. The more we have these events, the faster the definition of mid range items becomes much nicer. Every year the number of padded, weighted, unique items increases and that makes them more attainable. HCW armor is not very expensive around 4-5x. If you go back 5-10 years, that was not the same story.

Also, I feel a lot of this is people bitching just to bitch. This game is able to be played with 4x basic off the shelf stuff. If you haven't been able to amass the coins to hire a mage to enchant your gear by now, you are doing something very fucking wrong. If you want padding/weighting, join Sunfist, that shit is free. But if you think that getting a ticket to an event will give you a godly item, you are wrong. Most of the people playing this game would rather take 75mill and allow someone to use their spot instead of putting heavy padding on their 5x armor. As a matter of fact, if you don't, you are dumb as shit. You can turn around and buy 5x HCP armor for much less, and have the coins to sell for $$ or pile up for your next purchase.

[Geijon Khyree]

I didn't have a "Good" Festival luck wise. I enjoyed the festival for what it was though. I got some cool stuff, but I'd say I'm in the lower percentile. I'm starting to consider myself a mid-tier wealthy person though and thats just by being shrewd and working on being more savvy.

Alts help too. Having alts makes you wheel and deal a bit differently.

[Shaps]

Your entire theory is debunked by the fact that top end items are cheap as fuck right now. Just sayin'.

-Thond

Not really. I could go back and just pull a sampling of items over the past say.. 4-5 years.. but you can look back that far if you want. I already have.

Secondly, the market is all jacked up right now with RtCF.. already 1 day after the major auctions ended you see people scrambling to up their bank accounts again, which sometimes, but not very much so.. decreasing their price a tad bit on items. As right now those items do nothing for them and they need the coins.

Just sayin'.

[Shaps]

Fully agree Senor and Geijon.. I think events like this are great. So long they are regulated a bit on the MA front. Plus it's been a great silver drain for the economy. Things in 6-7 months will settle down, until the next big event occurs. Glad you all had a wonderful festival.

[thefarmer]

There's no difference in results between having good friends and MA'ing.

edit: Meaning I wouldn't have gotten 99% of what I did, if I didn't have friends helping me out.

[Thondalar]

Not really. I could go back and just pull a sampling of items over the past say.. 4-5 years.. but you can look back that far if you want. I already have.

Secondly, the market is all jacked up right now with RtCF.. already 1 day after the major auctions ended you see people scrambling to up their bank accounts again, which sometimes, but not very much so.. decreasing their price a tad bit on items. As right now those items do nothing for them and they need the coins.

Just sayin'.

I'm here buying and selling every day. I've not seen you doing either. I'm now going to mark you down as an ignorant troll. Congrats on your trolling.

-Thond

[Haldrik]

That really the best you can do Haldrik?

Does reading more than 2 or 3 lines from a drive-thru menu hurt your brain? Can you not actually make a reasonable argument due to your lack of cognitive ability?
Did you have to get your sister to type things for you, because it's to hard to concentrate for longer than 30 seconds?

See, two of us can do this.. all day long.. or all night long... Lionel Richie style..

Now stop being an internet tough guy and just "shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh", if you don't have anything to say that matters.

I'm chuckling to my self right now as I stare out the window into downtown San Francisco. I just got back from a 10 day trip to Peru and have resumed my internship at a top complex litigation firm. The shit I'm working on would blow your mind.

It's ok to be wrong by the way, that's how you learn. (Or don't in your case.)

[Shaps]

I'm chuckling to my self right now as I stare out the window into downtown San Francisco. I just got back from a 10 day trip to Peru and have resumed my internship at a top complex litigation firm. The shit I'm working on would blow your mind.

It's ok to be wrong by the way, that's how you learn. (Or don't in your case.)

So now.. you've moved from internet trash talker.. to feeling the need to prove your self-worth to me and everyone on here. Got it. What you should realize, is a confident person, shouldn't feel the need to prove themselves to anyone. And you make the silly, silly mistake of thinking your are better than someone.

That's okay.. if you need a pat on your back at your High School reunion.. I'm sure they'll give you one. :)

[thefarmer]

And you make the silly, silly mistake of thinking your are better than someone.


You're

[Shaps]

I'm here buying and selling every day. I've not seen you doing either. I'm now going to mark you down as an ignorant troll. Congrats on your trolling.

-Thond

Thond,
You sell/trade do your thing. I do mine. /shrug.. Just because I come and go from the game, or have had various names throughout my playing time, doesn't mean I don't know or see what is happening. Again.. a few people have actually read what I've said. Some disagree, some agree and that's cool. People making assumptions that anything I'm saying is based on a troll attempt or whatever is wrong. I keep saying that, but guess you all are so used to it, it's an easy response to give.

Sadly, the ideas I stated in my very first post.. are not the first time they've been said in various forums or in gamechat and discussed. I just happen to comment on it, and this is what results. Ah well.

[Shaps]

You're

Thanks Farmer..

And looking at my Rep all of a sudden.. 5 years on this specific forum, maybe 1-2 neg reps.. was fully in the green 30 minutes ago.. now in the red? Based off of statements, with no name calling or insults (unless in reply to me)?

Going to love seeing how this plays out.

[Slit-eye]

Self importance and tone of post goes a long way when the masses consider you potential troll. Give it time. Rep returns with good behavior.

[Tgo01]

Give me 10 million silvers and I can put your rep back into the green with the snap of my fingers.

[senorgordoburro]

Give me 10 million silvers and I can put your rep back into the green with the snap of my fingers.

With real power comes real responsibility

[Shaps]

Self importance and tone of post goes a long way when the masses consider you potential troll. Give it time. Rep returns with good behavior.

So good behavior based on... what? I've been respectful in all my posts. Made valid arguments to anyones rebuttals. Only replied with sarcasm or such in reply to those directed at me. If presenting an argument is now considered bad behavior.. Just keep pushing the red on me.

Didn't realize a valid discussion could make people feel.. what? You tell me Slit-eye since you seem to know what "good behaviour" is.. and monitor it for us on the forums.

[Shaps]

Self importance and tone of post goes a long way when the masses consider you potential troll. Give it time. Rep returns with good behavior.

So good behavior based on... what? I've been respectful in all my posts. Made valid arguments to anyones rebuttals. Only replied with sarcasm or such in reply to those directed at me. If presenting an argument is now considered bad behavior.. Just keep pushing the red on me.

Didn't realize a valid discussion could make people feel.. what? You tell me Slit-eye since you seem to know what "good behaviour" is.. and monitor it for us on the forums.

[Haldrik]

Moving back on topic(ish)...

Where are people selling all their minors and such? I haven't seen much in the merchant threads.

[Androidpk]

There was a chat room set up on AIM where some deals were being made. Other people were using lnet.

[diethx]

The quickest way to earn more neg rep is to complain about having received neg rep. Just fyi.

[tyrant-201]

How can I get in on getting the red rep? It's been a long time. Too long.

[diethx]

If you really want some, I could probably give you some...

...are you sure?! You can't complain about it after, though.

[Slit-eye]

You tell me Slit-eye since you seem to know what "good behaviour" is.. and monitor it for us on the forums.
See that there? That's snarky. A troll is someone who says things just for the sake of argument. That seems to be what you're doing. The good behavior statement was a joke founded in your opponent mentioning a firm, and your time to gain rep back. But that's okay. You'll lnot take my time anymore.

[tyrant-201]

If you really want some, I could probably give you some...

...are you sure?! You can't complain about it after, though.

Whatever you want to give me, :bigsmile: I swear I won't complain about it.

[tyrant-201]

Was there a stipulation about complaining about the red rep I didn't receive? I don't think so! /complain

[diethx]

TECHNICALLY you said you wouldn't complain about whatever I gave you!

Just you wait until I can cycle around to you again, just you wait.

I'll see you in about 3 months.

[Tgo01]

With real power comes real responsibility

What good is having power if I can't abuse it? :(

[Jarvan]

Auction means more items will go to people with tons of silvers. Look at the rune tattoo for example. How many would love to use that but don't have 175m silvers? I can see auctioning some items off but there needs to be a balance and I think Simu hit pretty damn good this time around.

Thats why one impure should have been auctioned, one raffled.

Easy fix.

[Androidpk]

No need to auction one when there was already an auction for a pure coraesine.

[Jarvan]

No need to auction one when there was already an auction for a pure coraesine.

Being that was a major, I disagree. I am sure you don't, so it doesn't really matter tho, but..

Almost every other wanted minor of a similar relative power or worth was auctioned as well as raffled/spun. Look at Weightless and rune tattoos. REALLY look at rune tattoos. Attuned as well. Sold for a crap ton. Same should have been done with the first impure.

[Moonwitch]

Actually... all of these characters are mine. I currently play 99.9% of the player base of Gemstone. To help sell my facade, I also created these forums, and created a bunch of entities to script responses with. They almost appear to be real humans with real emotions. But they are in fact my puppets. This is all just to mess with YOU, and make you think that you're interacting with a large bunch of people.


That explains why it takes you so long to sell bows!! You have to find the .01 percent

[Moonwitch]

Some incredible stuff got raffled off tonight including a 7xs fusion krodera bastard sword that Kerl won. This was a minor win.

[sentral]

did the lance raffle pull yet?

[Tolwynn]

Just now, Ryvicke won it.

[Archigeek]

did the lance raffle pull yet?

Yes, Ryvicke won.

[Androidpk]

What are the stats on the lance?

[Methais]

Did anyone make any T3 or T4 full leather or robe based Voln armor?

[msconstrew]

Did anyone make any T3 or T4 full leather or robe based Voln armor?

No, I don't think so. I have T2 6x HCP fulls. I know that there was one set of MBP, one set of full plate, and I don't know what the third set of T3 ended up being. The only set of T4 that went out became studded leather.

[Wrathbringer]

No, I don't think so. I have T2 6x HCP fulls. I know that there was one set of MBP, one set of full plate, and I don't know what the third set of T3 ended up being. The only set of T4 that went out became studded leather.

two t3 full plates were made.

[msconstrew]

two t3 full plates were made.

Okay, then mine was the third set and it was MBP.

[Ryvicke]

The lance says: "An Undead Bane Fusion lance that is normally five enchants, but seven against cursed foes"

So the undead bane in this case is that it goes from 5x-7x when used against the undead instead of a flare or weighting against them? And is essentially permablessed?

[diethx]

Sexy.

[sentral]

I got Tier 2 Decently crit padded robes done, for my monk.

[Kitsun]

Signature verbs are freaking awesome.

1st Person: You pull at your cheeks and show XXXXX just how you really feel! Nyaaaaaaa! That showed him!

3rd Person: XXXXX grabs his cheeks and makes a myriad of incredibly rude and immature faces at XXXXXX with accompanying taunting sounds.
>
Target View: XXXXX begins making incredibly rude and immature faces at you! The display is a surprisingly comprehensive myriad of facial contortions and ends with a loud, "Nyaaaaaaaa!"