Paul Hamm

[Nakiro]

Fucking amazing.

Those of you who like to watch gymnastics, discuess his amazing gold medal win and other feats in this year's 2004 Olympiad.

Ginobili making the game winning point at the buzzer for Argentina was probably the best.

Keller against that bald Aussie d00d was cool too.

[MPSorc]

i like to watch Gymnastics but alas, i have to read the news on the internet because i have no TV. nor do i want one

[Nakiro]

Should be proud, Korea took home the silver AND the bronze. Was probably going to get a gold too but Hamm stole it with his great run on the high bar.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Nakiro
Should be proud, Korea took home the silver AND the bronze. Was probably going to get a gold too but Hamm stole it with his great run on the high bar.

Except for the little tantrum Mr Silver threw in front of reporters. Mr Silver, whom is state sponsered and has to worry about jack shit while he's competing, said the American's have an unfair advantage over everyone else in any of the competitions.

What a jackass.

[SpunGirl]

I'd like to discuss the merits of Paul Hamm's hot, hot body. Also, his brother. Also, Blaine Wilson.

-K

[CrystalTears]

Heh, already said this in the Olympics thread, but Paul Hamm was fucking amazing! What a comeback! It's moments like that that make watching it all that much more exciting. Damn!

Paul Hamm earned that spot and definitely deserved that gold medal. It's not like he got it from default. He was excellent! And damnit he fell! To come back from a defeat like that is just incredible.

Unfair advantage? How is it unfair to be awesome? Jealous prick.

[Miss X]

I was really impressed watching Paul Hamm, amazing that he won gold after the problem with the vault. Also, he is totally hot, he should win double gold for that. The Chinese guy who was winning but messed up on the high bar was way hot too!

I watch mens gymnastics for the skill and stuff, really.

[Stinkfist]

Unbelievable, the only reason it happened was that god opened up his jar of "This kinda shit never happens to me" and pour the whole thing on his head right then, he struggled with sticking the landings all night, then hurt his arm, fell on the vault, and STILL had the guts to try a routine that he had already fucked up two nights before.
:gawk: And was absolutely perfect.

[Stinkfist]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
I'd like to discuss the merits of Paul Hamm's hot, hot body. Also, his brother. Also, Blaine Wilson.

-K



Its a good thing you said body, cause his face is fucking wierd looking.....

:no:

[Zanagodly]

He talks like a 10 year old girl too.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Also, Blaine Wilson.

Raven

[Ilvane]

Niiiiiiiice.

-A:kiss:

[SpunGirl]

I think I just drooled on my keyboard. Yeah, his voice is kind of funny, but put a piece of tape over his mouth and there's no problem there.

I think the silver medalist showed extremely poor sportsmanship, taking off his medal in disgust as soon as the ceremony was over and refusing to talk to reporters. What a whiny loser.

-K

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
I think I just drooled on my keyboard. Yeah, his voice is kind of funny, but put a piece of tape over his mouth and there's no problem there.

That's what I'm saying. Just twirl on those bars and look cute. No talking!


I think the silver medalist showed extremely poor sportsmanship, taking off his medal in disgust as soon as the ceremony was over and refusing to talk to reporters. What a whiny loser.

-K

I was very disappointed in his attitude. I understand he wanted nothing less than the gold but life happens. It's a competition with excellent atheletes. He should feel priviledged to be there let alone getting a silver. He should at least show some decorum to his competitors. It showed so poorly on him.

[Ylena]

Blaine Wilson is hot, but he pales in comparison to the utter hotness that is Aaron Piersol.

Is it just me, or do those suits seem skimpier than usual? Not that I'm complaining, mind you.

[KymberlynX]

Someone please tell me who won what? I missed it. :cry:

[Nakiro]

Americans may have an "unfair advantage" in that we live in a wealithier society. But I think that is part of the true competition of the Olympics.

Anyway, Korea should be damned proud. Two medalists.

You know, being SECOND BEST IN THE ENTIRE WORLD BY LESS THAN 12/1000 of a point isn't bad.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by KymberlynX
Someone please tell me who won what? I missed it.

He won this. (http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-spogym193935273aug19,0,4026244.story?coll=ny-nyc-sports-headlines)

Raven

[Snapp]

Blaine Wilson is hot as hell. On topic, I actually did get to catch some of the Olympics, and Paul Hamm kicked ass. The silver medalist is a disgrace.. they should take his medal back.

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Snapp
Blaine Wilson is hot as hell.


http://www.kristypage.com/blainewilson/pictures/03worlds/10.jpg


MmmmmmmmmMMMMMMm.

Yes.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Nakiro
Americans may have an "unfair advantage" in that we live in a wealithier society. But I think that is part of the true competition of the Olympics.

Anyway, Korea should be damned proud. Two medalists.

You know, being SECOND BEST IN THE ENTIRE WORLD BY LESS THAN 12/1000 of a point isn't bad.

Unless an American competitor has some awesome sponsorship or comes from a wealthy family, they are at a severe disadvantage simply because our athletes are not state sponsored like a vast majority of athletes from other nations.

Read the stories about the gymnasts who survived weeks on the free power bars and nothing else, nothing but a mattress in the apartment, mother took a second job delivering pizzas so she could compete. There are hundreds of stories about what the American participants go through in order to just go to the Olympics after they have made the teams.

I would say the US teams, with the exception of the basketball team, are at a major disadvantage when compared to a competitor who has had first class training with additional living arrangements paid for by their own government.

[Nakiro]

Your milage may very.

[Snapp]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/olympics/2004/gymnastics/08/21/gym.protest.ap/index.html

Ouch.

Does he have to give back his gold? And should he?

-Stanley

[Edited on 8-22-2004 by Stanley Burrell]

[Sean]

If you read the title of the article or even all of the article itself you'd answer your 1st question.

[Nakiro]

Sounds to me like South Korea diserves the gold. Regardless though, Paul Hamm's performance was still astonishing in his last two and first three events.

[Ilvane]

I don't know, maybe if the judges had known the difference between who was leading, they would have scored Hamm higher, so he would win.

That's why they wouldn't take the Gold away.

-A

[DeV]

That's tough. I think if the tables were turned, we would want our athlete to be awarded the gold.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I don't know, maybe if the judges had known the difference between who was leading, they would have scored Hamm higher, so he would win.

That's why they wouldn't take the Gold away.

-A

That's not how the scoring works.. each one is scored individually.

Hamm should give the medal back since he knows he only got it because of a screwup from the judges. He would make an even bigger name for himself.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
That's tough. I think if the tables were turned, we would want our athlete to be awarded the gold.

Exactly. If the Korean had gotten the gold due to the judges screw up, we would be deciding who to sue first and who to initiate economic sanctions against.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Ilvane
I don't know, maybe if the judges had known the difference between who was leading, they would have scored Hamm higher, so he would win.

That's why they wouldn't take the Gold away.

-A

That's not how the scoring works.. each one is scored individually.

Hamm should give the medal back since he knows he only got it because of a screwup from the judges. He would make an even bigger name for himself.

I agree. Silver is still second best in the world, and if its by .058th of a point, that is a damn close second best, and one that COULD easily change if he hadn't fucked up the vault so horribly bad. Seriously, he would've won by a 3 point margin otherwise.

Regardless, he should give it back.

[Ravenstorm]

It's not that simple. Sure, Hamm could give the guy his gold but whatever he does, doesn't affect the Olympic standing. Nor is it just a question of medal swapping: the S. Korean who was judged wrong won the bronze not the silver. So if he got the gold, the other gymnast would need to give Hamm his silver and get the bronze from the new 'winner'.

Raven

[Tsa`ah]

From my understanding, only the bronze and gold would be swapped.

I think he should give it up and file a formal complaint, be the bigger man.

I think he should give it up and file a formal complaint, be the bigger man

I agree, but considering the way people are today he'll probaly go on national television to cry about it, form a drug habit and end up on a "Where are they now" show 10 years from now changing oil out of a louisville, Ky Jiffy lube.

[Ilvane]

He's still young, and he was the world champion this year. It's not as if he can't come back next olympics and do it again.

The Korean guys were asses, too. I mean, real sore sports anyway.

-A

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
From my understanding, only the bronze and gold would be swapped.

The only mistake made was on the current bronze medalist where he was judged incorrectly on a maximum score of 9.9 instead of 10.0. If you add the .1 to his score, he takes the lead into gold position and pushes both others down a rank.

If he had been judged correctly, Hamm would have won a silver not the bronze. of course, had the South Koreans lodged the protest when they should have, this would be over by now.

Raven

[Makkah]

Who gives a shit. Paul Hamm looks like that kid Tommy from Butterfly Effect.

He was pretty awesome though... as are all olympic athletes.

rht

[Skirmisher]

You have to love the attitude Hamm is taking.

True Olympic spirit.

"I feel I was the champion," Hamm said late Sunday night. "What I did was absolutely incredible, coming back from 12 points down."

This article sums up quite well how i see this whole affair. First a snippet:


If they couldn't do the right thing and notice the scoring mistake, why is it too much to ask the tainted gold medalist to do it for them? So much for sportsmanship.

So much for the Olympic ideal.

So much for the Games as something special.

-The NJ Record, Monday, August 23, 2004



Hamm should live up to his oath of fair play <---Click this Link To Read Article (http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkyNjkmZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY1NzMyNTYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXk2)

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Hamm should live up to his oath of fair play <---Click this Link To Read Article (http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkyNjkmZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY1NzMyNTYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXk2)

Boo! You have to sign up to read that :no:

[Skirmisher]

I'll put it up here and credit it.

If a moderator thinks its an infringment of some kind please just delete it? Thanks!

http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkyNjkmZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY1NzMyNTYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXk2

Hamm should live up to his oath of fair play

Monday, August 23, 2004

By ADRIAN WOJNAROWSKI
SPORTS COLUMNIST


ATHENS, Greece - The bylaws and bureaucrats have Paul Hamm covered regarding the letter of the law, leaving the loss of his gold medal an improbability. He could've pushed them to the side and made a stand about something so much bigger. He had the chance of a lifetime, this little gymnast passing on the possibility of becoming the biggest man of them all.

Hamm could've done the right thing and declared South Korean gymnast Yang Tae-young wronged, declared him worthy of sharing the gold medal over the percentage point a judge mistakenly failed to award him Wednesday. It wouldn't be too far of a reach for Hamm to speak out for justice, considering, well, the wrong guy won the gold medal.

"I feel I was the champion," Hamm said late Sunday night. "What I did was absolutely incredible, coming back from 12 points down.

"I can understand that he's upset, but he should be upset with his coaches. I don't even think the judges should've been penalized."

If they couldn't do the right thing and notice the scoring mistake, why is it too much to ask the tainted gold medalist to do it for them? So much for sportsmanship.

So much for the Olympic ideal.

So much for the Games as something special.

Yang lost out on a telltale tenth of a point on the parallel bars, when a judge incorrectly entered his degree of difficulty. It should've been 10. The judge inputted 9.9. When Yang's final score was multiplied, the difference cost him the gold medal. Korean officials needed to protest before the next rotation, but in the chaos, they didn't do it until the competition was completed.

Three officials were suspended for the oversight, including an American, but the letter of the law won out with the International Gymnastics Federation. The Koreans were gathering video evidence to bring the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Already, the CAS has declared it a futile gesture, insisting that it involves itself with judging controversies only in cases of bribery and corruption. Initially, United States gymnastics officials issued a statement on the issue: Tough luck, they basically said. Now run along and get lost. You're standing in our Golden Boy's light.

Yet Hamm's voice could've gone a long way toward restoring justice for Yang, a longer way toward fulfilling his Olympic oath of fair play and sportsmanship. After all, these are the Olympics, and brotherhood isn't supposed to end with his biological one, Morgan, in the finals of the floor exercise on Sunday night. Yang was his Olympic brother, one whom Hamm had held his hand over his heart with, whom he shared an Opening Ceremony vow with in the stadium.

Hamm is still going to get his Wheaties boxes, his endorsements, his triumphant welcome home to the States. To have made this gesture toward Yang would've elevated him. If you think Michael Phelps was celebrated for letting teammate Ian Crocker take his spot on the final relay of the Games, imagine the praise and endorsement possibilities had Hamm pushed to turn Yang's bronze to gold. Yet Hamm was stonewalling on Sunday, delivering the preprogrammed responses of agents and flaks.

"If you don't make a call in football, if you don't throw the flag on the play, you don't get to go back at the end of the game and say, 'If we could've been able to watch the replay, we would've gotten the ball back and won the game,'Ÿ" Morgan Hamm said.

Here's the problem: This isn't the NFL. There are no moral issues there. You'll do anything to win. These are the Olympics. There is supposed to be a different code of engagement, a a broader mission, the spirit of sportsmanship looming larger over the nations and athletes. Mostly, it interests the United States to commandeer those ideals when it benefits the United States. Or, like 2002 in Salt Lake City, when two Canadian pairs skaters, Jamie Sele and David Pelletier, kind of look like Americans.

Now this wasn't a case of corruption, but human error. Nevertheless, Hamm would have his share of the gold medal had this happened to him. NBC would've commissioned a crusade, Americans would've mobilized, and an injustice would've been corrected. Turn this around, and the North American outrage would've pressured change.

Hamm insisted he would go along with whatever the governing bodies told him to do, but he was on the record insisting that Yang deserved no part of the gold. "[His medal] isn't tainted," Morgan said, but it is tainted, because as spectacular as his performance, the Korean should've been the winner. Paul Hamm doesn't get it. And he sure doesn't care.

"He had one of the greatest comebacks in history," Morgan Hamm said.

Yes, he did. Just one problem. Paul Hamm didn't come all the way back.

He could've done so with an acknowledgment that Yang Tae-young had been wronged. He could've stopped hiding behind the timing of the appeal, the semantics, the understanding that most of the Western world would never go against him on this one. Paul Hamm could've made us believe that sportsmanship isn't dead, that the Olympic spirit is still alive, that maybe, just maybe, the wrong guy didn't win.

Years from now, it would've been a lot easier for Paul Hamm to look at his gold medal if Yang had one too, if justice had ever been done.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

"I feel I was the champion," Hamm said late Sunday night. "What I did was absolutely incredible, coming back from 12 points down." As incredible as it was, he remains third best. He has to know in his heart that he doesn't deserve the gold medal.

[Wezas]

I say we let Florida do the recount.

[Sean]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold

Originally posted by Skirmisher

"I feel I was the champion," Hamm said late Sunday night. "What I did was absolutely incredible, coming back from 12 points down." As incredible as it was, he remains third best. He has to know in his heart that he doesn't deserve the gold medal.

That would be second best. Hamms score doesn't change nor does 2nd places. It was only the guy who came in 3rd that was misscored.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tijay
That would be second best. Hamms score doesn't change nor does 2nd places. It was only the guy who came in 3rd that was misscored.

So what should happen is the one guy should get gold, Hamm should get silver, the former silver-metal winner gets bronze, and the former bronze-metal winner gets the parting gifts?

[Numbers]

No. The final standings points were extremely close.

The guy who got the bronze deserved the gold. Hamm deserved the silver, and the current silver holder (the one who apparantly threw the tantrum) deserved the bronze.

Hamm's going to come out of this whole ordeal looking like a selfish ass, unfortunately. And it sure isn't making the US look that great.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold

Originally posted by Skirmisher

"I feel I was the champion," Hamm said late Sunday night. "What I did was absolutely incredible, coming back from 12 points down." As incredible as it was, he remains third best. He has to know in his heart that he doesn't deserve the gold medal.

He also said after that that he would accept and do whatever FIG decided to do with the medals. So he's not fighting the issue, really.

[CrystalTears]

Also, I honestly don't think that the US would have gone through the trouble of seeing if the scores were fair or just and would have accepted what was given.

AND I don't think the Koreans would have given the medal back if the tables were turned. Not saying that Hamm shouldn't be the bigger guy and give it back, but on the other hand, I don't think he should be penalized for someone else's mistake.

I'm rather iffy on the whole thing, as you can see. :blush:

[DeV]

He wouldn't have much grounds for a fight to be honest.


Thanks for the correction Tijay.

[Anebriated]

If Paul Hamm has to give back the gold then so should the ?korean? who was using the illegal dolphin kick in the breaststroke.

[Skirmisher]

To me, there is just no question.

We know he did not deserve the gold, the rest of the world knows he does not deserve the gold and HE knows he does not deserve the gold.

It's not about being the bigger man.

It's about being a man at all.

Its easy to do the right thing when forced to as would be the case if the Olympics said to. It's only worth something when you do it of your own free will. :shrug:

The sad thing here is that he is being so short sighted. He would still get SO many accolades for doing what he HAS to know is right, but is instead shooting himself in the foot and is going to lose alot of his expected payday. Who wants someone who didnt really win their medal as their spokesperson?

[DeV]

I don't think he *has* to. Why would you want to keep something you didn't earn fairly. :shrug: I guess people just don't care about sportsmanship nowadays.

[Latrinsorm]

I do think he should give the Korean dude his medal, but maybe when Tom Brady gives Rich Gannon his Super Bowl ring, I'll care about this.

[Wezas]

<asshole>
Give the Korean the gold! It's gotta be worth at least a few great dane's.
</asshole>

[longshot]

A gold medal means so much to isnignificant pissant countries like Korea.

Just look at the last soccer World Cup... when Korea scored the equalizer against the US, the team reinacted the disqualification that awarded the US the gold in short track speedskating.

The great thing was that nobody in the US knew, or cared, about a gold medal in short track speedskating... but in the cornucopia of body odor and kimchee that is Korea, such things are important on a national level.

BTW, I watched last night, and they showed that the Korean guy should have had a .2 deduction on the parallel bars for having more than three "holds", so the judges fucked up there too.

Korea will continue to suck until some other country takes it over again...

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by longshot
BTW, I watched last night, and they showed that the Korean guy should have had a .2 deduction on the parallel bars for having more than three "holds", so the judges fucked up there too.

I saw that too, and found that ironic that they mention that because my fiance and I were discussing previous to that everyone's outrage to have Hamm give up the gold and be a "sportsman" when in actuality it can only be "assumed" that the Korean could have won the gold had the judges been correct the first time around, but can't go on that assumption since the scoring may have changed even then.

Everyone seems to be discounting the Korean's "sportsmanship" to be a thorn in their side about giving him the gold and not be the "better" man and just say "I lost, oh well, good luck next year".

This was the judges' and Olympic committee's error and bad judgement and they should have handled it and shouldn't be left to the athelete to "do the right thing".

Leave Hamm alone. He did nothing wrong.

[Edited on 8/24/2004 by CrystalTears]

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Everyone seems to be discounting the Korean's "sportsmanship" to be a thorn in their side about giving him the gold and not be the "better" man and just say "I lost, oh well, good luck next year".
[Edited on 8/24/2004 by CrystalTears] [Hamm did not win the gold. Is that not a fact? Not that I care to argue this point any longer, I was presented with the facts and made my judgement based on that.

[CrystalTears]

He was awarded the gold by the judges. Don't make it out to be now that he sucked. They all performed at a gold medal rate but only one can take it with them.

A mistake was made. Going back and checking the Korean's performance, a 2-tenth of a deduction should have been made anyway, right off the bat. One can only assume that he would have won the gold if the start off point was changed and everything remained the same. However if we're going to nitpick his performance, may as well nitpick all the others.

I just find it unfair of everyone, especially the Olympic committee, to leave this burden on the athelete and not take matters in their own hands, thus leaving Hamm to be the bad guy here. This was handled very badly and I don't think that Hamm should be the person to get most of the heat for something he had no control over. Yes it would be nice of him to give it up, but that's a noble act. Doing a noble act is good. Not doing a noble act does not make him wrong.

[DeV]

CT, no one is making this out to be that Hamm sucked. I haven't even commented on his performance.

A mistake was made. Thats the bottom line.

[Wezas]

So is there any chance that the judges would have judge the Korean more harsly (examined the routine closer for imperfections) if they had upped the difficulty? Or is that just not right?

(I have only been seeing bits and pieces of this)

[CrystalTears]

What I'm saying is that you can't assume that he would have automatically won the gold because of that one error. They may have, as Wezas asked, judged him more harshly. Taken off more points for another error they didn't notice before. You can't say for certain, without a shadow of a doubt that he would have won the gold.

[DeV]

Three officials were suspended for the transgression. That says alot.

[KymberlynX]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
What I'm saying is that you can't assume that he would have automatically won the gold because of that one error. They may have, as Wezas asked, judged him more harshly. Taken off more points for another error they didn't notice before. You can't say for certain, without a shadow of a doubt that he would have won the gold.

Last night on the Olympics they explained that even though the Korean guy should have been started at a higher scoring, he would have been deducted for doing too many hold techniques anyway....or something like that.

Plus, he totally fucked up on his high bar routine.

I also think they screwed the russian guy...his high bar routine was pretty awesome.

[Wezas]

Bumping an old thread to mention that he received a letter asking him to give back the gold.

And also to post this link of a pole vaulter.

Guys, don't click on this link.

http://www.zanycash.com/larry/polevault.mpg

[KymberlynX]

Okay...that made my nuts hurt and I don't even have any.

[CrystalTears]

I'm not going to get into this debate anymore because apparently I have the minority stance on the subject. However I hope that if he does, that it be a SWAPPING of medals, not just him giving up his. He deserves a medal and better damn well end up with one in the end.

As for the other link... well... that's just painful. :weird: