New sorc help!

[Tgo01]

I'll probably be rolling up a sorceror soon and was looking for some advice/help. What are the two least important stats for a sorceror? What are typical hunting spells for low, mid and high level sorcs? Since I'm a furry footed loving fool I will probably roll up a halfling, other than the low carrying capacity would this produce any significant challenges? What spell rank in what circles do sorcs usually stop at?

[Haldrik]

Hey,

This is mostly related to the first 30 days. But max str dex/agility (depending on what weapon you are using) and logic.

I rolled up a Sorc (dwarf) and went Claidhmore first. But Defenses are a bit of a challenge, so swapped over to Pole-arm. After that I was having serious encumbrance issues so I went Archery.

Been Archery 9-17 now, best decision I made so far. You will probably definitely want Archery since you're a halfling.

Grabbing about 18 ranks in demonology will help phase any boxes you get along the way too.

[Whirlin]

Well... Halfling is a strong option for Spirit Regen, if you go the COL Path.

However, Sorc CS is based on the average of Aura and Wisdom bonuses. At -5 Aura, and 0 Wisdom racial bonuses, you're right on par with half-krolvin and Giants in terms of natural boost to your CS (second worst possible... Only Lower would be Dwarf's -10)

Dark Elves are pretty unmatched for Sorc CS, having a combined +15 racial bonus to both Aura and Wisdom. The next highest races are Burghal Gnomes, Elf, Forest Gnomes, and Sylvans at +5 racial bonus

While leveling, I'd try to keep get 425 ASAP, and then keep Sorc Ranks at Level+20, and MnE at level, using MnS as your 3rd spell research rank dump. Once MnS gets up to 2/3rd level, you can go even higher in Sorc Circle. (if that makes sense).

[Tgo01]

My empath is a dark elf and I hate it, don't think I can make another dark elf character. Burghal gnomes might be good though, same spirit and maneuver defense. Hmm...I know halflings get a sorc and elemental TD boost but Krakki doesn't mention anything about that for Burghal Gnomes, is that because they don't receive any TD bonuses or because it's not listed?

[Cabalis]

I play a burghal gnome sorcerer. It's a lot of fun, though the low hp can make it seem like an exercise in masochism early on. Get some damage padded leather, and 1x PT and perception for life to maximize your racial maneuver advantage.

Be sure to 2x spell aim, as the occasional bolt vs. trolls and such will break up the monotony of 702/705 which will be your go to spells for quite a while. Also, 710 works great at lower levels as long as your not severely uphunting.

Demon lore is your friend, especially if you don't want to shell out for the enc. potions. Phasing boxes is a must as a gnome.

[Whirlin]

I do not believe they get the same bonuses... I think those bonuses are strictly Halfling...

However, unlike a cleric or a wizard, since Sorcs have both Spirit and Elemental schools, so TD isn't really an issue (a more veteran Sorc can chime in)... I really wouldn't be concerned with those as racial bonuses.

If you're concerned with encumbrance though, I'm fairly certain that the Burghal gnomes have it worse off than halflings from both a wearing encumbrance factor, and an overall carry weight perspective... basically harder on all fronts (that's what she said)...

And even though the smaller races are better at maneuver defenses than the larger ones... When it comes to Sorcs, that's really their biggest weakness, and I don't think that race will really be material. That's like going from having a D100 roll of 2 ending up as a 280 versus a 300, either way, you're fucked.

[Cabalis]

And even though the smaller races are better at maneuver defenses than the larger ones... When it comes to Sorcs, that's really their biggest weakness, and I don't think that race will really be material. That's like going from having a D100 roll of 2 ending up as a 280 versus a 300, either way, you're fucked.

For cheapshots and garrotes etc., this is likely true. However, I can reliably hunt roa'ters on my gnome when it wasn't even a consideration on my old giantman. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, though.

[Tgo01]

My bad, I think I meant to say Forest Gnome since they have the same maneuver defense and spirit regen as halflings. Although Burghal gnomes have the best maneuver defense...hmm...I hate the hard decisions. First world problems!

[Fallen]

Don't forget about the encumbrance potion from Simucoins. An extra 100 pounds of carrying capacity is pretty sweet.

[Tgo01]

Okay so I've made up my mind, halfling sorcerer it is! I'm 99.99% sure I'm going with halfling sorc. Might do halfling sorc. I'm not positive yet but pretty sure.

Anywho, I figure I could get 100s in everything except a 79 in influence at cap. Is this the way I should go? I thought influence had something to do with animate dead or a sorcerer guild skill but I can't find anything about it on Krakkipedia.

[Merala]

If I had to guess (that is without researching this) if influence was used for anything, I would imagine it would be illusions. And perhaps, that quake spell.

[Tgo01]

If I had to guess (that is without researching this) if influence was used for anything, I would imagine it would be illusions. And perhaps, that quake spell.

Yeah illusions, that's what I was thinking of. I just checked Krakkipedia though and apparently influence doesn't affect that either. Strangeness.

[Merala]

Yeah illusions, that's what I was thinking of. I just checked Krakkipedia though and apparently influence doesn't affect that either. Strangeness.

I can't think of anything else influence would affect besides the illusions guild skill and illusion based spells like quake. I would venture a guess that if KP doesn't say so, it likely doesn't affect either of them. Especially because if I remember right only bards, rangers, and empaths use influence for anything. You might try Lnet to double check.

[subzero]

Yeah illusions, that's what I was thinking of. I just checked Krakkipedia though and apparently influence doesn't affect that either. Strangeness.

Krakii is probably wrong in this case. I seem to recall it being mentioned that influence was a factor in illusions. It does not affect quake, nightmare, or other 'illusory' spells though.

[Tgo01]

Krakii is probably wrong in this case. I seem to recall it being mentioned that influence was a factor in illusions. It does not affect quake, nightmare, or other 'illusory' spells though.

Is it worth tanking something else to pick up influence for better illusions or would you still tank influence?

[RichardCranium]

Is it worth tanking something else to pick up influence for better illusions or would you still tank influence?

Still tank it.

[Fallen]

Discipline is the factor in Illusions work, not Influence. Influence was supposedly going to factor into Major Summoning, a spell which will be ..some time in development.

[Haldrik]

What's the second best stat to tank? My dwarf can't get everything to 100.

[spraggeth]

That is because you are talking about CMANs vs regular critter maneuvers (one has a roll one doesnt) i agree with whirlin...CMANs dont care what race you are only 1x PT and 1x Perc

[spraggeth]

I agree with a lot of stuff on this post and disagree with some. As far as build goes it can be debated. If you are going for pure hunting and and don't care about scrolls/wands, 735, demons, animating (all which are just fluff besides 735 if you ask me as sorcs have plenty of killing power) try to get as much CS as possible (tons of spells).

I agree with the idea of getting 425 ASAP and I would get 430 at that. I do not agree with stopping at level + 20 sorc ranks then ranking up in MnS to 2/3s your level. Reason is you get .5 CS for every sorc rank that is 21-60 over you level, you only get .33 for every MnS rank up to 2/3 your level. So I recommend getting up to 120 for DS and then putting extra ranks into MnE until you get MnE up to 2/3 your level. MnE up to 2/3 your level you get .25 CS for 425 and .33 CS for the spell rank itself = .58 CS which beats out the .5 CS for sorc ranks. Don't go above 2/3 your level though in MnE if you ask me.

Only two reasons I would go above 120 early is for 130 which you don't really need unless you rescue a lot due to 740 (which 20 ranks of demonology will allow you to take one extra person with you through the rift) and the other is for 140 if you plan on doing a lot of escorts/bandits, in which case CMANs will still rape you but you can generally be laying in offensive and not take damage.

Other things to consider are the 20 ranks of demonology which is pretty sweet for enhancing 704 phasing ability as well as making it possible to take one extra with you using 740.

Reading above Fallen is correct, it is Disc that is a major factor in illusions (which is just more fluff honestly) which is handy being a dwarf. As a dwarf I have yet to fail one speed rank of illusions which is miserable if you haven't ever ranked illusions.

I have played just about every build as a sorc so if you have any specific questions or if something I said doesn't make sense, then just shoot me a PM or post on here again and hopefully I will see it.

Last note, high CS is amazing for fast leveling. Fluff is just fluff in the end. Unless you are big into RP then I would definitely focus on high cs (doesn't mean roll a dark elf or your spirit regen blows for CoL)

[subzero]

Is it worth tanking something else to pick up influence for better illusions or would you still tank influence?

Once you get past a certain point (rank-wise), I don't think the stats matter much. It can hurt early on for rose and vortex, but after that things seem to move along fairly well. Bottom line, as has been said, don't set your stats around illusion training.

[spraggeth]

Once you get past a certain point (rank-wise), I don't think the stats matter much. It can hurt early on for rose and vortex, but after that things seem to move along fairly well. Bottom line, as has been said, don't set your stats around illusion training.

Couldn't agree with you more. Tanking stats over fluff would be ridiculous.

[caelric]

Only two reasons I would go above 120 early

125 is great for box popping. first you 704 it, to see if it is resistant. If it is not, you 416 it, to make sure no scrolls that can be burnt are in it. Then you 125 it. Assuming it is not mithril.

Or you give all your boxes to your rogue friends.

[spraggeth]

125 is great for box popping. first you 704 it, to see if it is resistant. If it is not, you 416 it, to make sure no scrolls that can be burnt are in it. Then you 125 it. Assuming it is not mithril.

Or you give all your boxes to your rogue friends.

Notice I said early. If you have a bunch of boxes think of how many pulses you will wait for a single box....4+16+25.....no worth it in my opinion.

[Kaldonis]

Halfling sorcerers do just fine. Mine is halfway to cap now. The other thing you can consider besides INF to not get to 100 at cap is potentially CON because the racial bonus is really good. That'd be up to you. As your CS will be worse than some other choices, but your DEX will tend to be much better 2x Spell Aiming is smart; bolting is a good alternative particularly if you get the Summoning ranks for Web bolt, and it's great for 710 in the 20s, and 720 later.

If you're a race with good spirit regeneration, doing your own boxes isn't that hard. If you toss 1x perception into your path, you can actually pop most your boxes and just leave 125 to the nasty traps. You can also toss 203 to get an extra spirit per 4 minutes, which as a halfling is one wracking per 5 minutes, plus your natural mana pulses. My guide on popping isn't quite finished, but I think I'll brush up the details and make it live soon: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/User:DAID/Sandbox

As a smaller race, 130 can be quite superior to 740 if you're into rescuing. Dragging a giantman through a rift in the 60 second window can be tricky.

[Kastrel]

Influence is easily the least important stat, which is not uncommon for most classes.

As a secondary consideration, you could take some points out of Intuition to keep the Influence from being completely tanked.

You could get away on many races with 100s cross the board save Influence, and if not that, a combination of Influence/Intuition would cost you maybe a point or two of DS and store prices.


What are typical hunting spells for low, mid and high level sorcs?

Before anything else, remember the age-old claidhmore for 30 days setup. It will make the earliest levels simpler. Barring that, or any other melee weapons, things can be a little tough early on.

But in the realm of spells, it will go like this:

In the earliest levels, you will be using Blood Burst almost exclusively. While it deals little direct damage, 1 or 2 successful BBs can cause significant bleed out damage, enough to out-perform Mana Disruption. It takes patience, but when you have only 10 mana, leaving 3-5 enemies bleeding out is better than damaging 1 or 2 enemies for a minor wound.

As you level, you can gradually shift more and more of your attacks to MD. Remember to channel from offensive if possible, for a dramatic increase in damage. I found that in new hunting grounds (read, higher TD), temporarily stepping back to Blood Burst can help you get a bit bang for your buck, then shift back to MD as you equalize with the enemy. Eventually, you may be able to use MD as the majority spell, but don't expect this to happen before level 10 at least, unless you have a mana battery friend.

At around level 10, a new option provides itself for you; Focused Maelstrom. An entirely different style of attack, for 10 mana you can virtually guarantee a level 10 enemy will die or be horribly wounded, while 5 casts of MD is an unknown quantity (imagine missing 3 times, then dealing minor-moderate damage twice). For many sorcerers, there is a small golden era where Focused Maelstrom is the best spell available, before enemies start maneuvering too badly. And that is what makes FM less useful over time; it requires you to stand in front of the enemy relatively helplessly for around 30 seconds or more. You can Mind Jolt, but your mana cost just went up 60%. Pick your enemies well, and FM can carry you a long way (I managed to make good use of it against Kiramon all the way up to level 50, but thats unusual).

Unfortunately, this is pretty much the end of Sorcerer spell choices for a very long time. Channeled MD is the bread and butter spell for Sorcerers, doing more Damage-to-Mana-cost than most other spells without any serious downsides aside from being a plinky (read: maneuvers) spell. Disintegrate does slightly more damage for 150% more mana, and is only truly viable in certain circumstances. Focused Implosion is powerful, but doesn't come into its own until the 40s or so, and costs significant amounts of mana (and destroys loot frequently). Dark Catalyst is a very powerful spell, but is also mana intensive, and is only viable against pure-like opponents. Torment is an incredibly capable spell, Maelstrom 2.0 in some ways: faster, better stuns/wounds, more lethal, lasts until opponent is dead, but it has the risk of backlash. It is an underappreciated spell, but it requires mastery, preparation, forethought and constantly calculated combat, or you will end up stunned for 8 rounds on the ground with no arm, assuming you don't die outright.

From a bolting perspective, Web Bolt, Fire Spirit, and Balefire are all very useful and powerful tools if you train in Spell Aiming, BUT, they require significant mana investments per cast. A shot of Balefire might crit-kill on a good endroll, but it may just do a serious wound/stun for 13 mana, while Torment will hit for the same severity time and time again for 17. Even in a perfect world where every cast is a crit-kill, killing 10 enemies to fry with Fire Spirit requires 110 mana, which won't be achieved until the 30s.

Be prepared to use Mana Disruption (with some Focused Maelstrom optionally) as your go-to spell for a very, very long time. Using wands to supplement your mana supply can help, but realize that this wand usage may last for several dozen levels.

[Sorcasaurus]

Personally, I don't see spell aiming as a good investment of TPs until post cap. Bolting and focused maelstrom/implode are less effective ways of killing compared to spells using CS. The only use I've ever had for bolt spells was with friends in areas much higher than I was, and tagging things after they tackled/stunned/feinted. I find the TPs better spent investing in spell ranks to get your CS as high as possible, keeping PT and Perception at 1x, getting demon lore to 54 (to maximize retaliation chance of CoS), investing a bit in necro lore for 711 etc.

701/702 are going to be your go to spells until your mana pool gets a bit bigger. I didn't really need any other spells until after 30, where some tactics greatly increase your efficiency. There are a few threads around that detail some of the specifics, like which mobs to phase and DC, where you might be better off with a cast of pain or two, and 702 to finish etc. I'll edit with links as I find them, and you won't have to worry about it for a while.

Also, get used to using 703. Until you can kill quickly, it can be a life saver against mobs with spells like boil.

[Whirlin]

While I do agree with you Sorcasaurus, I believe race should be a factor in that decision.

If you do choose to be a halfling Sorcerer, you're already at a -20 CS relative to a Dark Elf, but at a advantageous DEX modifier, which directly assists your Bolt AS. While I wholehearted agree that it's definitely not the most mana efficient way of killing things, I think it's increases the relative benefits for a race that's naturally aligned to bolting.

Furthermore, spell aiming training at low levels assist for those levels when Mana is a HUGE issue (like, before 20-30ish), as wizard wands are more prevalent than their Sorcerer alternatives. However, I do agree that once you're out of those awkward low levels (like, once you hit 50ish), you're probably better off swapping entirely to spell research. But that will take about a year to get up to 50, and you should get your annual fixskills by then.

[Fallen]

I couldn't imagine playing a sorcerer without 2x Spell Aim. If you're a runestaff user they also factor into your magical ranks per level. Between wands, Focused Maelstrom/Implosion, Balefire, Web bolt (If you go heavy on Summoning lore) and Fire Spirit, you're missing out on a significant portion of your arsenal for a few more points of CS. You can now use scrolls in the field easily as well with 1-handed invokes, allowing one to infuse and use scroll-based bolts to further conserve mana.

[Allereli]

I couldn't imagine playing a sorcerer without 2x Spell Aim. If you're a runestaff user they also factor into your magical ranks per level. Between wands, Focused Maelstrom/Implosion, Balefire, Web bolt (If you go heavy on Summoning lore) and Fire Spirit, you're missing out on a significant portion of your arsenal for a few more points of CS. You can now use scrolls in the field easily as well with 1-handed invokes, allowing one to infuse and use scroll-based bolts to further conserve mana.

+1. infused Cone of Lightning scrolls and MRs are awesome

[Rolis]

While I do agree with you Sorcasaurus, I believe race should be a factor in that decision.

If you do choose to be a halfling Sorcerer, you're already at a -20 CS relative to a Dark Elf, but at a advantageous DEX modifier, which directly assists your Bolt AS. While I wholehearted agree that it's definitely not the most mana efficient way of killing things, I think it's increases the relative benefits for a race that's naturally aligned to bolting.

Furthermore, spell aiming training at low levels assist for those levels when Mana is a HUGE issue (like, before 20-30ish), as wizard wands are more prevalent than their Sorcerer alternatives. However, I do agree that once you're out of those awkward low levels (like, once you hit 50ish), you're probably better off swapping entirely to spell research. But that will take about a year to get up to 50, and you should get your annual fixskills by then.

Only -10 CS difference from halfling to dark elf in sorcerer sphere.

[Sorcasaurus]

If you do choose to be a halfling Sorcerer, you're already at a -20 CS relative to a Dark Elf, but at a advantageous DEX modifier, which directly assists your Bolt AS. While I wholehearted agree that it's definitely not the most mana efficient way of killing things, I think it's increases the relative benefits for a race that's naturally aligned to bolting.

Furthermore, spell aiming training at low levels assist for those levels when Mana is a HUGE issue (like, before 20-30ish), as wizard wands are more prevalent than their Sorcerer alternatives. However, I do agree that once you're out of those awkward low levels (like, once you hit 50ish), you're probably better off swapping entirely to spell research. But that will take about a year to get up to 50, and you should get your annual fixskills by then.

CS is -10 compared to DE. Isn't that all the more reason to keep your CS up as high as possible? There are other bonuses to race beyond the Wis/Aur modifiers, and you can keep your CS more than high enough as non DE races. It's a personal matter, but I'm against making yourself a wizard-lite just because your CS isn't the same as a DEs. If mana/wands are an issue, 2x in HP early, and then after 30 or so letting it settle back down to 1x by not training in it for a while. Even at level 20 that's an extra 10-20 casts minimum per hunt.

I consider this largely a discussion starting around level 15-20, because the first 30 days are usually spent swinging a weapon with temporary stats placed for it.

Fallen, it sounds like we just enjoy different parts of what a Sorc can do while hunting. You may like the bolt spells, and maybe the TPs are worth it for the variety. I found the extra CS from not training spell aiming to make it so I don't need the bolt spells. Anything a bolt would give me, I can do better warding. I also happen to enjoy those spells more, so preference may be tilting my argument. Early levels, 701/702 were more than capable of killing everywhere I went. I can see how some find it boring, but I think of all pures early levels as a bit boring.

One hand invoking scrolls has enough of a pentaly that I consider it to be a hunting tactic for after the first 30-40 levels. Admittedly I have little to no experience using spells on scrolls for hunting, I just use them for out of circle protection spells.

[Whirlin]

Lets assume the following training:
2x spells
1x Symbols
1x Harness
1x EMC
1x SMC
1x Lore

10+Level + (((Magic Ranks)-(8 x level))/10)
Lets assume level 60, 7 ranks of Magic stuff, before Spell Aiming or Spell Research.
Parry Ranks: 10 + 60 + (420-480)/10)
Parry Ranks: 70 -6
Parry Ranks: 64

Parry DS:
Base value = Parry Ranks + 10 + Trunc(STR bonus/4) + Trunc(Dex Bonus /4)
Lets assume 0 STR and DEX bonuses, just to make things simple, plz.
Parry DS Base Value = 74

(Base Value * Stance Modifier * 1.5) + Stance bonus + Runestaff enchant bonus (we'll assume 4x)
(74 *.6 *1.5) + 40 + 25 = 131 DS from runestaffs


Now with 2x Spell Aiming!
10+Level + (((Magic Ranks)-(8 x level))/10)
Lets assume level 60, 9 ranks of Magic stuff
10+60 + (540-480)/10
76 Base Value
Base value +10 = Parry Base 86

(Base Value * Stance Modifier * 1.5) + Stance bonus + Runestaff enchant bonus (we'll assume 4x)
(86 *.6 *1.5) + 40 + 25 = 142 DS from runestaffs

Net gain: 11 DS from 2x Spell Aiming.


Versus Spell Research
60 ranks of Spell Aiming at 3/1 = 180/60
60 ranks of spell aiming at 6/2 = 360/120
Total: 540/180 = 450 MTPs / 32 per spell rank = 14.06...

Parry Ranks: 10 + 60 + (434-480)/10)
=66 Base
=76 Parry
(76 *.6 *1.5) + 40 + 25 = 133 DS from Runestaff


TL;DR
120 ranks of Spell Aiming grants +11 DS from Runestaff Defense (in guarded) at level 60
And access to a fun way of killing stuff

14 Spells Grant +2 DS from Runestaff Defense (in guarded).
The 15 spell ranks can also grant +14 CS, +14 DS (assuming lolunder trained in Sorc ranks... unlikely)
+8.4 CS, +7 DS if under 75 ranks in MnE, but over 2/3rd*level in MnE

Interesting, in Offensive, the parry equation would be:
(74 *.2 *1.5) + 0 + 25 = 47 with neither
(86 *.2 *1.5) + 0 + 25 = 50 with Spell Aiming
(76 *.2 *1.5) + 0 + 25 = 47 with Spell Research

So, in offensive, spell research would offer more DS than Spell aiming by all of .5 DS...

Wooh for overanalysis!

[Sorcasaurus]

access to a fun way of killing stuff

This will ultimately be the biggest difference in our suggestions. If you like bolting or not.

One quick correction, It's 32 MTP for spells isn't it? It's 64 PTP, which would translate to ~14 spell ranks. 0/8 base, goes to 16 and 32. That would translate to 14 spell ranks.

With 14 ranks you'd end up ahead in DS from spell bonuses and get about two levels worth of CS. Depending on rounding for the character, I think it'd be between 7-9.

I'm posting from work, but I'll address this fully tonight.

*EDIT* The 7-9 CS makes a few assumptions about already being 20 over level in Sorc circle, and includes bonuses from 425. I'll explain when I post tonight

[Whirlin]

DERP... you're right... I usually convert everything into physical and run from there... I'll fix my maths in a moment.

[Sorcasaurus]

Ok, so this has diverted away from helping Tgo01 a bit, so chime in if you feel anything is unanswered, or you want clarification. Outside of investing points in spell aiming it looks like your questions were addressed.

To start, great post Whirlin. Numbers are always great to have when talking about training options and I was too lazy to go look up the equations. :cheers:

We're basically putting numbers to the two sides and I'm not sure we're going to come to a single answer. To me, the extra CS is worth not using bolt spells and keeping the lore TPs within necro and Demon helps the spells I use. 8/9 CS is two levels worth, and it's hard to raise much beyond leveling. Access to some spells sooner can be nice too, but you'll get them all eventually. The DS from extra spell ranks will eventually pass the runestaff bonus from spell aiming, but it's not enough to be a decision maker.

My experience was, past the 15-20 range, I never had trouble hunting with CS spells. 701 and 702 were more than capable of getting me fried. If you want/need bolts in your life to mix it up, by all means go with spell aiming. You give up some CS, but not enough that you can't land your spells. Being a halfling you may notice that CS loss more than other races, but later on it won't matter too much because Sorc manage some pretty solid warding margins.

Take comfort in the fact that there's people with and without spell aiming that are hunting perfectly fine and enjoying their character. You can't go wrong on this one.

[Kaldonis]

In the earliest levels, you will be using Blood Burst almost exclusively. While it deals little direct damage, 1 or 2 successful BBs can cause significant bleed out damage, enough to out-perform Mana Disruption. It takes patience, but when you have only 10 mana, leaving 3-5 enemies bleeding out is better than damaging 1 or 2 enemies for a minor wound.


I am definitely going to agree overall here, but do remember that these days they give base mana, and it's not just 3 per level. So even a level 0 character can easily have 20 mana.

Also with the 30-day instant training, personally I only did about 5 levels with a claidhmore, and then you can just train into 100s and 400s, spell yourself up, then train into all 700s and harness power, and go hunting with 702. Especially as say a halfling in CoL, you can start mana disrupt hunting by about level 5 pretty easily. Yes this is what I would call savagely cheating and gaming the system, but whatever, it's only for 30 days.

One thing as a smaller race you should do is hunt gremlins. Carry some junk they will steal from you, using all their action rounds. For a level 5 creature a TD of 10 is amazingly low, and they are usually under-hunted, so they tend to have reasonably good loot. Gremlins are so much fun as a low level sorcerer with mana disrupt!

Mostly I agree with the spell notes otherwise.

I won't really get into the debate too much about spell aiming. One of my theories is you maximize your skills where they are best, and I like the alternative of bolting personally. But put another way, why would you roll up a halfling sorcerer if you weren't planning to cast bolts until cap? It's very fair to claim that a halfling should actually want to overtrain 700s more to increase the CS, but personally I like having a very fleshed out training path which just isn't possible with so many spells. I did 2.5x spells for a long time, but that was to learn all the 100s and 400s, which again is my personal choice.

Bolts are expensive, and they won't become very effective until approaching around level 40 or so. But when you start fighting some trolls, using web followed by fire spirit is amazing. Some magical creatures are hard to ward, and it's right around the time implosion is not quite that good yet, and a bolt will outright kill some of these magical undead with nearly no HPs. In these kinds of cases, sorcery wands are going to be useless, but golden, crystal, or metal wands are all typically great. I used to always carry three wands around, and only one was a 700 spell (twisted or bone, whichever I had). But obviously in that case you have to be careful or tricky about wracking. One solution is to use sacrifice instead when you are bolt hunting, if there's something that isn't undead around.

My favorite trick, though, as a halfling sorcerer in CoL is piles of Aura enhancives, in particular to bolt hunting. I'm not quite to 13 spirit yet, but even at 12 spirit, when I'm bolt hunting, then I wrack, and remove all my enhancives, and in very short order I'm back to 8/10 spirit with no AS penalty and a full head of mana again. Once I get to 13 spirit though, it's literally wrack, remove all the enhancives, and directly at full power.

Bolts are really great for group hunting too, I find. In that case, things will die fast enough that you just cast one bolt per creature and it doesn't matter that it's around 10 mana. Most alternatives are either too slow or too fast. If you use Mana Disrupt, you won't make much contribution before the creature dies, and if you implode no one else even got a hit in. Of course Pain is also a great group hunting spell too, but I really like the bolts that splash, because if it's a big group, it's probably swarming a lot too.

Edit: I should also point out, without bolts, there's no way you'll ever be useful during invasions. These creatures often have absurd TDs and won't implode well. Spirit Strike and bolts, however, will get hits in on stuff 10-20 levels+ above you....

[Allereli]

if you have a stash of gems and a second character than can forage and skin, buy the task trading vouchers and don't bother leaving town until level 20

[spraggeth]

I have to agree that 2x SA is essential. I just went the 3x spells route and you gain a lot of DS from spells but still lose over all by tanking your magic ranks.
I say for maximum pwn get
8 ranks armor
1xPF
1xPerc
.5x Climb
.33x Swim
1xAS
1xMIU
1xHP
2xSA
1xEMC
1xSMC
forget the lore and you can go about 2.7x spells. Maybe only 2.6x but still that is pretty good.

If you are looking for fluff Necro has got a huge buff with the adding of 735 but demonology is more useful IMO (especially as a halfling for 704 buff) while leveling. If you are looking for money, people are paying pretty good right now for ensorcelling services.

[Whirlin]

I have to agree that 2x SA is essential. I just went the 3x spells route and you gain a lot of DS from spells but still lose over all by tanking your magic ranks.
I say for maximum pwn get
8 ranks armor
1xPF
1xPerc
.5x Climb
.33x Swim
1xAS
1xMIU
1xHP
2xSA
1xEMC
1xSMC
forget the lore and you can go about 2.7x spells. Maybe only 2.6x but still that is pretty good.

If you are looking for fluff Necro has got a huge buff with the adding of 735 but demonology is more useful IMO (especially as a halfling for 704 buff) while leveling. If you are looking for money, people are paying pretty good right now for ensorcelling services.

Your DS wouldn't be tanked that heavily... Really not sure what math you're using for that anecdotal comment when I did the math out three posts above. The only thing I could imagine is that you were 75+, and already had Level*(2/3) in MnS, and 75 Ranks in MnE, and >level in Sorc circle... Then yes, you wouldn't see as much DS return from spell research, but it's not 'tanking' it.

[spraggeth]

Well I guess it depends on your definition of tanked. Second, I had a hard time following all your calcs up top, I am pretty tired so that might be a big part of it but posting all the formulas was a bit excessive (could have just went to KP if I needed to check your math). I am just saying I just recently was going 3x spells (well 2.9) and compared my DS to those of like level (factoring out racial bonus', gear, etc.) and I was significantly lower than them. To the point where against the supplicants in the Temple they could hit me no problem in Guarded....you shouldn't be getting hit in guarded IMO. So I had two others calculate out my DS along with that of the other two sorcs subjects, all of us coming up with the same numbers. However, the numbers we calculated did not add up to in game.

Therefore, the three of us concluded we think that the DS forumla on KP was different. I wish I still had my logs (recently deleted so that it would be easier to track kills while trying to figure out how 735 kills/necro ranks blah blah). Just my personal opinion.
Either way, pretty good use of KP above (could probably follow in the morning just been a long day).