Xbox One

[Androidpk]

Here is the contender to the PS4, the interestingly named xbox one.

http://kotaku.com/watch-the-reveal-of-the-next-xbox-as-it-happens-right-509034592


Kinect 2.0 is included and mandatory it seems.

System is cloud powered.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

You can't just subtract 359 from 360! Lies! Deceit!

[Androidpk]

If you have an xbox 360 and then you spend $359 you are left over with xbox one!

[SHAFT]

Xbox720, Xbox infinity, Xbox one...

Took em long enough

[drigore]

I'm beginning to think Microsoft wants me to do fantasy football. I might be paranoid though. At least EA had the balls to show gameplay, not some shitty game turned TV show or game trailers with cutscenes only. Why should I buy a game AND pay a monthly subscription just to access my saves? At least the Playstation Network is free. This thing is all jacked up. I have a feeling opening sales might be good, but it's going to nosedive soon after.

[Methais]

XBox One?

There might be one, but I can't think of a console right now with a dumber name.

[Fallen]

Wii U was pretty bad. Should have stuck with 720 or Infinity.

[RawR]

Red ring of death 2.0..... Just because microsoft can't make a system that lasts worth shit.

[Sile]

Wii U was pretty bad. Should have stuck with 720 or Infinity.

I enjoy the WII U, mostly for Monster hunter 3 Ultimate. I haven't played any other games on it yet.

But the WII U Is almost a dead system already. Hell the ps Vita is outselling it right now.

[Drew]

You'll have to install games before you play them. When you install a game, it connects to your Xbox Live account. You can connect it to a second account, but you'll have to pay a fee. In other words, the traditional concept of "used games" is obsolete for Xbox One.


And there goes my loyalty to the xbox brand.

[Sile]

Would be funny if gamestop, bestbuy, etc all refused to carry XBOX One because of the nature it treats used games. Those companies make immense profits off of used games. I'm sure they would changed the plans of Microsoft if they did this.

[Androidpk]

So far I am more impressed with the PS4.

[Androidpk]

At the end of the day, looking at the resulting press, I'd say todays press conference by Microsoft was a complete flop. Mandatory kinect? Making people pay Microsoft a fee in order to use a used game? People don't want these "features". If anything they gave Sony's PS4 a good boost. Apparently Sony's stock even jumped up in price.

It isn't an important feature to me but backwards compatibility seems to be pretty popular with a lot of people. PS4 will allow you to stream older PS games online but you can't play the actual discs. Xbox one will do neither and Microsoft has said they don't plan on allowing for the streaming of older titles.

[Latrinsorm]

Xbox one will do neither and Microsoft has said they don't plan on allowing for the streaming of older titles.If my computer can run Commander Keen software, how can a One not run 360 game software, except out of spite?

[Androidpk]

If my computer can run Commander Keen software, how can a One not run 360 game software, except out of spite?

Money is the answer, ultimately. They COULD add emulation software/hardware to the Xbox One to allow it to be backwards compatible but that would raise the cost of the system, which I'm sure they are trying to keep down. The other solution is to do what Sony is doing
by streaming the games online. Sony can do this because they bought the game streaming company Gaikai last year for $380M. While Microsoft has an impressive server size set up for Xbox one, somewhere around 300,000 servers if I remember correctly, they don't have game streaming capability yet.

[Overlord]

And there goes my loyalty to the xbox brand.

Companys have been doing this with PC Games that require a unique CD key to play online for years now...take it you don't play any blizzard games or never played CS for the same reason?

[TheEschaton]

Traditionally, used games have been a major selling point and advantage of consoles over the PC.

[Overlord]

Traditionally, used games have been a major selling point and advantage of consoles over the PC.

No argument there! The whole non backwards compatability is frustrating, especially if you have 50 games for xbox sitting there. Would make you want to retain the old console instead of trading it in to substitute some cashola for purchase of the next gen. Bah!

[Gelston]

I am ready to buy my PS4. All this crap confirmed which one I will purchase first.

[Jarvan]

Would be funny if gamestop, bestbuy, etc all refused to carry XBOX One because of the nature it treats used games. Those companies make immense profits off of used games. I'm sure they would changed the plans of Microsoft if they did this.

Gamefly is fucked as well.

[Gompers]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

PS4, take my money.

[Fallen]

lol. Yeah, i'm not sold on the system, either. Honestly, i'll buy the news consoles once they roll out with an exclusive game I want to play. Otherwise, I couldn't care less what else they try to cram into the thing.

[Tgo01]

But guys, USA! USA! USA!

[Methais]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw

PS4, take my money.

That was great. I haven't seen the original yet but I think it's safe to say that this is a mostly accurate summary.

Is it just me or do those marketing people (not just in this video, but in general) make you want to take a cheese grater to their faces more and more every time you hear them speak?

I wish just for once a company would hire a real gamer to come out and be like, "Check out what this shit does..."

[Bobmuhthol]

I wish just for once a company would hire a real gamer to come out and be like, "Check out what this shit does..."This doesn't generate sales. Gamers already buy consoles. They want everyone to own the Xbox for every entertainment purpose. I don't follow company strategies but I have to imagine Microsoft sees that cable revenues are way, way down and cable companies are just becoming ISPs. The trend is toward cancelling cable subscriptions and doing everything online, so it makes perfect sense to have a device connected to your TV that will handle games, movies, television, browsing, etc.

[Fallen]

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/xbox-one-microsofts-mixed-messages

Good write up of everything that was off about The Xbox One's debut.

[Gompers]

http://i.minus.com/iBzvb2JSpQNRM.gif

[Taernath]

Well, I've had fun with my 360 but I'm out. There's nothing that appeals to me, and everyone I personally know who owns a 360 is saying the same thing. We're all either looking at the PS4, or already planning on migrating to it. The online thing bugs me, even though it's not an "always" requirement. My 360, which I bought in 2005, wasn't even connected to Live until 2009, and I guess I still see consoles as needing to be playable without a connection of any type.

[Sile]

To me it's always been about software support instead of hardware specs. For consoles.

If I wanted mind numbing specs. I'd buy a custom computer.

If Xbox had always online and no second hand support. But if it had an exclusive I wanted to play. I would still buy one.

I still think Sony is winning the pr battle right now. But ultimately it's about the games.

[Methais]

To me it's always been about software support instead of hardware specs. For consoles.

If I wanted mind numbing specs. I'd buy a custom computer.

If Xbox had always online and no second hand support. But it had an exclusive I wanted to play. I would still buy one.

I still think Sony is winning the pr battle right now. But ultimately it's about the games.

I bought a Gamecube for Metroid and Zelda.

I'm pretty sure that's all I did with it, and it made me feel dirty.

[Androidpk]

Gamecube was awesome for Metroid and the RE remakes.

[Sile]

Gamecube was awesome for Metroid and the RE remakes.

Fire emblem was fun as well.

[Ryvicke]

I think I played the majority of smash brothers in college on my GameCube. Good times.

[SHAFT]

I bought a Gamecube for Metroid and Zelda.

I'm pretty sure that's all I did with it, and it made me feel dirty.

I'm assuming you're speaking of metroid prime? Was that not one of the best gaming experiences ever?

I never played the Zelda games though.

[Jarvan]

Fire emblem was fun as well.

I bought a Wii just for Fire Emblem.

[Methais]

I'm assuming you're speaking of metroid prime? Was that not one of the best gaming experiences ever?

I never played the Zelda games though.

Both games were incredible.

The feeling dirty part was that I paid $250 for a system for two games. 3 if you count Mario Kart, but N64 Mario Kart was still better from what I remember.

[Loyrl]

Thanks Gompers, that was a pretty good one. I am going to wait till E3 to see the games before I say anything to rash, but the Xbox HTPC isn't something I want to buy atm.

[Whirlin]

To me it's always been about software support instead of hardware specs. For consoles.

If I wanted mind numbing specs. I'd buy a custom computer.

If Xbox had always online and no second hand support. But if it had an exclusive I wanted to play. I would still buy one.

I still think Sony is winning the pr battle right now. But ultimately it's about the games.

Sorry, gonna chime in on this one... as I did a pretty interesting report on it a while back...
It's actually slightly counter-intuitive... but the more advanced computers get, the worse games are going to get for them. From a development and resource utilization perspective. Whereas Consoles will always offer an ease to maximization. Let me break it down.

Yes, you have Hardware specs of a CPU versus Console. CPUs almost always have more everything. However, lets take a deeper look into some of the variables between the Hardware and the Game.
First, you have varying types of hardware. What kind of graphics card do you have? AMD? NVidia? What kind of Motherboard do you have? How much RAM? How big of a cache? How big of a hard drive? What's the hard drive speed?
What about Hardware drivers? Is your graphics card driver up to date? If you use a SSD, is that driver up to date?
What OS are you running? What patches have/have not been applied? What other processes are you running in the background? How much RAM are those other processes utilizing? How many resources do you REALLY have to work with?
What about middlewear between the Hardware and OS? Is your DirectX up to date? What about sound cards and sound management devices? How should your game react to other processes attempting to use these devices while in the game?
What resolution are you running your computer in? Is this going to be the same native resolution as your OS? What if you need to change it?
Don't want to deal with any of that? Are you going to create an emulation system? Are you creating it from scratch? How is it going to react to your existing code? How many additional resources is that going to utilize to interface between the game and OS?

Each one of these variables need to be accounted for, and programmed to. This is (in short), a pain in the fucking ass. You're losing a LOT of potential due to the amount of middlewear and required processes necessary to make everything play nice.

Lets compare this to an XBox or a console:
Consistent build. You always need to program to X ram, X processor speed, X Hard drive speed, X graphic card.
Middlewear is minimal. Yes, patches are released for consoles, but it's possible to force updates to play a game, and since it's a single version associated with all hardware/middlewear, easy to determine compatibility.
Consistent output, HDMI or Component Video cables... no need to code for too many screen resolutions.

Consoles will always be easier to code for, and always allow more complete utilization of resources relative to computer gaming, so each time a console comes out with specs that are even 70% of a computer (ballpark, out of my ass %), they can outperform computers due to more streamlined code, and reduced processor overhead.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Sorry, gonna chime in on this one... as I did a pretty interesting report on it a while back...
It's actually slightly counter-intuitive... but the more advanced computers get, the worse games are going to get for them. From a development and resource utilization perspective. Whereas Consoles will always offer an ease to maximization. Let me break it down.

Yes, you have Hardware specs of a CPU versus Console. CPUs almost always have more everything. However, lets take a deeper look into some of the variables between the Hardware and the Game.
First, you have varying types of hardware. What kind of graphics card do you have? AMD? NVidia? What kind of Motherboard do you have? How much RAM? How big of a cache? How big of a hard drive? What's the hard drive speed?
What about Hardware drivers? Is your graphics card driver up to date? If you use a SSD, is that driver up to date?
What OS are you running? What patches have/have not been applied? What other processes are you running in the background? How much RAM are those other processes utilizing? How many resources do you REALLY have to work with?
What about middlewear between the Hardware and OS? Is your DirectX up to date? What about sound cards and sound management devices? How should your game react to other processes attempting to use these devices while in the game?
What resolution are you running your computer in? Is this going to be the same native resolution as your OS? What if you need to change it?
Don't want to deal with any of that? Are you going to create an emulation system? Are you creating it from scratch? How is it going to react to your existing code? How many additional resources is that going to utilize to interface between the game and OS?

Each one of these variables need to be accounted for, and programmed to. This is (in short), a pain in the fucking ass. You're losing a LOT of potential due to the amount of middlewear and required processes necessary to make everything play nice.

Lets compare this to an XBox or a console:
Consistent build. You always need to program to X ram, X processor speed, X Hard drive speed, X graphic card.
Middlewear is minimal. Yes, patches are released for consoles, but it's possible to force updates to play a game, and since it's a single version associated with all hardware/middlewear, easy to determine compatibility.
Consistent output, HDMI or Component Video cables... no need to code for too many screen resolutions.

Consoles will always be easier to code for, and always allow more complete utilization of resources relative to computer gaming, so each time a console comes out with specs that are even 70% of a computer (ballpark, out of my ass %), they can outperform computers due to more streamlined code, and reduced processor overhead.

Don't ever apologize for making us learn something. This is a nice breakdown.

[Tgo01]

It's actually slightly counter-intuitive... but the more advanced computers get, the worse games are going to get for them.

I thought you were going to say because as graphic cards get better and better people are going to demand better and better graphics which eats up a lot of resources. Isn't it something stupid like 30-50% of staff on a game is devoted to graphics now when it used to be like 10%? Shit probably 20% of staff on a game now is devoted to making the water look realistic.

Yes I'm pretty sure I just made up those numbers but I'm probably right.

[Sile]

Sorry, gonna chime in on this one... as I did a pretty interesting report on it a while back...
It's actually slightly counter-intuitive... but the more advanced computers get, the worse games are going to get for them. From a development and resource utilization perspective. Whereas Consoles will always offer an ease to maximization. Let me break it down.

Yes, you have Hardware specs of a CPU versus Console. CPUs almost always have more everything. However, lets take a deeper look into some of the variables between the Hardware and the Game.
First, you have varying types of hardware. What kind of graphics card do you have? AMD? NVidia? What kind of Motherboard do you have? How much RAM? How big of a cache? How big of a hard drive? What's the hard drive speed?
What about Hardware drivers? Is your graphics card driver up to date? If you use a SSD, is that driver up to date?
What OS are you running? What patches have/have not been applied? What other processes are you running in the background? How much RAM are those other processes utilizing? How many resources do you REALLY have to work with?
What about middlewear between the Hardware and OS? Is your DirectX up to date? What about sound cards and sound management devices? How should your game react to other processes attempting to use these devices while in the game?
What resolution are you running your computer in? Is this going to be the same native resolution as your OS? What if you need to change it?
Don't want to deal with any of that? Are you going to create an emulation system? Are you creating it from scratch? How is it going to react to your existing code? How many additional resources is that going to utilize to interface between the game and OS?

Each one of these variables need to be accounted for, and programmed to. This is (in short), a pain in the fucking ass. You're losing a LOT of potential due to the amount of middlewear and required processes necessary to make everything play nice.

Lets compare this to an XBox or a console:
Consistent build. You always need to program to X ram, X processor speed, X Hard drive speed, X graphic card.
Middlewear is minimal. Yes, patches are released for consoles, but it's possible to force updates to play a game, and since it's a single version associated with all hardware/middlewear, easy to determine compatibility.
Consistent output, HDMI or Component Video cables... no need to code for too many screen resolutions.

Consoles will always be easier to code for, and always allow more complete utilization of resources relative to computer gaming, so each time a console comes out with specs that are even 70% of a computer (ballpark, out of my ass %), they can outperform computers due to more streamlined code, and reduced processor overhead.

Great breakdown. And I do agree with your assessment. This argument also applies to iPhone vs android as iPhone is a closed system which in turned has less variable then android.

Also today the line is more blurred between consols and computers. As consols try to do more things traditionally reserved for computers. I'm lucky in that I don't have to choose whether or not I'll get a new computer vs a consol. I can get both if I want. And I'm sure most of the people on here don't have to make that choice.

It still comes down to games for me. Produce an exclusive I want to play. I'll buy.

[Whirlin]

Great breakdown. And I do agree with your assessment. This argument also applies to iPhone vs android as iPhone is a closed system which in turned has less variable then android.

Also today the line is more blurred between consols and computers. As consols try to do more things traditionally reserved for computers. I'm lucky in that I don't have to choose whether or not I'll get a new computer vs a consol. I can get both if I want. And I'm sure most of the people on here don't have to make that choice.

It still comes down to games for me. Produce an exclusive I want to play. I'll buy.

Completely agree with you, and I'm in a similar position. The Wii U is a perfect example of that... and for the same reason. I play MH3U quite a bit on the 3DS. I was debating picking up a Wii U to play it on there instead. Fortunately, my friends that play it already have a Wii U, so I just go over there, and let them host the game on the console and the rest of us connect via the 3DSs. My friends that own Wii U and MH3U have said that even if there are no other releases on the Wii U, they feel like they've gotten their money worth off of MH3U alone.

[Sile]

Completely agree with you, and I'm in a similar position. The Wii U is a perfect example of that... and for the same reason. I play MH3U quite a bit on the 3DS. I was debating picking up a Wii U to play it on there instead. Fortunately, my friends that play it already have a Wii U, so I just go over there, and let them host the game on the console and the rest of us connect via the 3DSs. My friends that own Wii U and MH3U have said that even if there are no other releases on the Wii U, they feel like they've gotten their money worth off of MH3U alone.

I bought two wii u just for that reason. One for my nephew and one for myself. I've sunk maybe 200 hours into the game. It had an insane amount of content for a consol game. Can't remember the last one I've played that had as much. I felt I got my money's worth all ready. I actually got two more games I haven't even tried yet. Mario and assassins creed.

Capcom originally announced they had no plans for monster hunter 4 for the wii u. But they released another statement after that mhfu was a runaway success on the consol. So it looks like the wii u will get more monster hunter love. And the fact that Nintendo bought the rights to mh untill 2015. I'm sure it will get another release.

Also the fire emblem x shin megami game should also be a buy.

[Latrinsorm]

I'm lucky in that I don't have to choose whether or not I'll get a new computer vs a consol. I can get both if I want. And I'm sure most of the people on here don't have to make that choice. The super-saturation of demand due to immense American wealth has very interesting effects on economics; for instance, product quality. As a supplier, why devote the resources to compete with the best when you're likely to reach a majority even as second fiddle?

[Sile]

The super-saturation of demand due to immense American wealth has very interesting effects on economics; for instance, product quality. As a supplier, why devote the resources to compete with the best when you're likely to reach a majority even as second fiddle?

I never really considered lookin at it like this. But it couldn't be more true. In north America. A lot of gamers will own every system. In the end I think Xbox took the slight edge from having te more popular online experiance. And exclusives becoming rarer and rarer.

I still miss the Snes glory days though. I felt gaming was more pure then. Less distractions.

[Whirlin]

I bought two wii u just for that reason. One for my nephew and one for myself. I've sunk maybe 200 hours into the game. It had an insane amount of content for a consol game. Can't remember the last one I've played that had as much. I felt I got my money's worth all ready. I actually got two more games I haven't even tried yet. Mario and assassins creed.

Capcom originally announced they had no plans for monster hunter 4 for the wii u. But they released another statement after that mhfu was a runaway success on the consol. So it looks like the wii u will get more monster hunter love. And the fact that Nintendo bought the rights to mh untill 2015. I'm sure it will get another release.

Also the fire emblem x shin megami game should also be a buy.

I didn't really like where they went with the latest Fire Emblem on the 3DS... they made it very easy to accomplish your goals through grinding... when it used to be a lot less of a timesink, much more of a tactical game... They just made it a little too easy.

And, I have a huge boner for pretty much any game Atlus produces... Etrian Odyssey series, Shin Megami Tensai series, even the original Disgaea was published by Atlus... I've never played a game from Atlus that I haven't liked. They're one hell of a publisher.

[Fallen]

SMT IV should be amazing.

[Androidpk]

Sorry, gonna chime in on this one... as I did a pretty interesting report on it a while back...
It's actually slightly counter-intuitive... but the more advanced computers get, the worse games are going to get for them. From a development and resource utilization perspective. Whereas Consoles will always offer an ease to maximization. Let me break it down.

Yes, you have Hardware specs of a CPU versus Console. CPUs almost always have more everything. However, lets take a deeper look into some of the variables between the Hardware and the Game.
First, you have varying types of hardware. What kind of graphics card do you have? AMD? NVidia? What kind of Motherboard do you have? How much RAM? How big of a cache? How big of a hard drive? What's the hard drive speed?
What about Hardware drivers? Is your graphics card driver up to date? If you use a SSD, is that driver up to date?
What OS are you running? What patches have/have not been applied? What other processes are you running in the background? How much RAM are those other processes utilizing? How many resources do you REALLY have to work with?
What about middlewear between the Hardware and OS? Is your DirectX up to date? What about sound cards and sound management devices? How should your game react to other processes attempting to use these devices while in the game?
What resolution are you running your computer in? Is this going to be the same native resolution as your OS? What if you need to change it?
Don't want to deal with any of that? Are you going to create an emulation system? Are you creating it from scratch? How is it going to react to your existing code? How many additional resources is that going to utilize to interface between the game and OS?

Each one of these variables need to be accounted for, and programmed to. This is (in short), a pain in the fucking ass. You're losing a LOT of potential due to the amount of middlewear and required processes necessary to make everything play nice.

Lets compare this to an XBox or a console:
Consistent build. You always need to program to X ram, X processor speed, X Hard drive speed, X graphic card.
Middlewear is minimal. Yes, patches are released for consoles, but it's possible to force updates to play a game, and since it's a single version associated with all hardware/middlewear, easy to determine compatibility.
Consistent output, HDMI or Component Video cables... no need to code for too many screen resolutions.

Consoles will always be easier to code for, and always allow more complete utilization of resources relative to computer gaming, so each time a console comes out with specs that are even 70% of a computer (ballpark, out of my ass %), they can outperform computers due to more streamlined code, and reduced processor overhead.


I'm going to say this is complete bullshit. Consoles are not always easier to program for. Look at the PS3. The cell architecture was a complete nightmare for developers to learn. Now with the PS4 and Xbone these two consoles are moving over to X86 architecure. Sure with computers there is the factor that there are lots of different components. But these days the relative computing power makes it easier to make high end games. Not to mention not every game programmer is out to make the next Crysis in terms of graphical power. Some of the best selling games are fairly low tech and indie in nature. Minecraft for example.

[Latrinsorm]

When a professional computer game company just does not care about the killer bugs that (inevitably) arise from differing personal set-ups, they by definition lose customers.

Meanwhile, a professional console game company cannot help but care about the killer bugs that arise from their universal set-up.

While it may not be easier to code for per se because new things are hard (and probably morally wrong), it is surely much easier to troubleshoot from the perspective of having an absolute standard.

[Androidpk]

Who said they don't care about bugs arising from different hardware? PC game sales continue to grow. Last year they made $20B. Your argument is without merit.

[Latrinsorm]

Peruse any computer game's forums. You will find complaints about playability.

That they nevertheless made money goes back to my previous point: America is astonishingly, incomprehensibly wealthy. Alienating an existing customer means nothing when a new customer is ready and willing to give you money.

[Androidpk]

There are pc gamers worldwide.

[Latrinsorm]

The point of America is that the market is already saturated. Additional demand is irrelevant.

[Androidpk]

The point of America is that the market is already saturated. Additional demand is irrelevant.

And what does that have to do with the quality of games?

[Latrinsorm]

If you can put $20 into a game and sell it for $35 or $35 into a game and sell it for $40, which would you pick, Red?

[Androidpk]

You aren't making any sense dude. Whirlin said that as computer technology improved the quality of games is going to diminish.

[Latrinsorm]

Which is true. What it means for computer technology to improve in this context is for people to continually purchase that technology. People in medieval Europe (not Spain! they were definitely not European then! don't look over there! dragons!) weren't picking up every season's new plow. The reason people here und now can continue to purchase that technology is the same reason that computer games suffer a craftmanship penalty (at least -4) console games do not: people have a lot of money.

Console games have to work on every console because every console is the same.
Computer games don't have to work on every computer because enough people will buy it anyway.

[Androidpk]

Which is true. What it means for computer technology to improve in this context is for people to continually purchase that technology. People in medieval Europe (not Spain! they were definitely not European then! don't look over there! dragons!) weren't picking up every season's new plow. The reason people here und now can continue to purchase that technology is the same reason that computer games suffer a craftmanship penalty (at least -4) console games do not: people have a lot of money.

Console games have to work on every console because every console is the same.
Computer games don't have to work on every computer because enough people will buy it anyway.

That is only assuming that developers are making use of the high end computer hardware parts coming out for all of the new games. Clearly you don't know what games are selling in huge numbers on the pc. AKA, go back to the sports folder.

[Latrinsorm]

What? What? It assumes no such thing. First of all you have linked what sells with what developers devote resources towards, which is comically plutocratiphiliac. The rich are not necessarily smart, their successes can, have, and will come as a surprise to them. Second of all you have equated depth with breadth. Our own PC community ranges from IBM computers to Acers and eMachines running eScape; how much more the wild woolly world of... the world? All medium end, but wildly divergent configurations. How would you code for that? How could you code for that?

Enjoy Paul Pierce being traded to the Clippers for two second round draft picks. (I kid, that will be a sad day for everyone involved, and I can only hope he chooses to retire instead.) (Gosh darn Danny Ainge, am I right?)

[Glitch]

Did Bethesda ever get all the Skyrim expansions working on Playstation? I've only ever owned a PC since the PS1 but I heard a zillion rages about that from PS users. I had to wait a month for the stupid exclusivity, but after that it was smooth sailing. Benefit of my PC in that case... If I had a problem, I could fix it with a small amount of aptitude. Console not so much.

Granted that's a singular case, but it sticks in my mind.



On another topic: Though I haven't owned a console for quite some time, I recently became interested in the new gen systems... up until I checked the old system prices and expected new ones. Seems an awful lot of money (to me) to spend just for access to a couple exclusive titles. I think of the upgrades I could make to my PC with that. :(

Oh well, guess it wasn't meant to be.

[Androidpk]

Did Bethesda ever get all the Skyrim expansions working on Playstation?


Yes.

[Sile]

http://wiiudaily.com/2013/05/wii-u-sales-increase-in-uk/

Microsoft did Nintendo a huge favor.

[Ryvicke]

What Latrin is arguing is common sense to anyone that's read a developer's forum or spoken to a developer pretty much ever. Hardware fragmentation is, of course, a massive issue for game developers throughout every level of game development. This discussion has been a part of development through my entire life, it became huge more recently with iOS/Android developers and has always been a part of PC/console discussions. PC game forums are filled with threads on various configurations that are causing bugs in games and developers fix bugs on large static install bases before fixing bugs on wildly divergent install bases. There is no argument that 360 and Playstation games as a whole will always be less buggy than PC counterparts. Just like iOS app development (aside from Apple's review structure) will always be a more lucrative proposition than Android app development (for many reasons, but one of them being hardware fragmentation).

PC gaming is a massive industry, but at the consumer and developer level it requires more time and investment than console gaming. That's a given.

[Androidpk]

And yet game quality continues to improve despite this fragmentation.

[Bobmuhthol]

And yet game quality continues to improve despite this fragmentation.A second ago you were arguing that the most popular PC games do not have good graphics.

[Androidpk]

A second ago you were arguing that the most popular PC games do not have good graphics.

Yes. Quality is not defined by graphics alone. A game does not need to have Crysis level of graphics in order to be considered a good game or a game of quality.

[SHAFT]

A second ago you were arguing that the most popular PC games do not have good graphics.

You and latrin are neck and neck for player hater of the year bob. You two are both some diabolical sons of bitches

[Bobmuhthol]

Yes. Quality is not defined by graphics alone. A game does not need to have Crysis level of graphics in order to be considered a good game or a game of quality.Sure, but then is it really meaningful to say quality improves over time? If developers are not creating more complicated/difficult games in terms of what goes into making them, it's still valid to say that games are being developed on consoles instead because of the uniformity.

[Androidpk]

Complex games don't need to have high end graphics. The number of developers making games for the PC base is not decreasing. They aren't quitting in droves in order to develop for consoles just because of uniform hardware.

[Whirlin]

found this gem:
http://i.minus.com/iGpVCeVzdBTUf.gif

Long .Gif

[Jarvan]

found this gem:
http://i.minus.com/iGpVCeVzdBTUf.gif

Long .Gif

lol.

I miss that toon actually.

[Androidpk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cn_NoMjuFLc

[Snoopy Dogg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cn_NoMjuFLc

hah

edit: and this latest release just reassured that when i have the money to do so.. ill be buying the ps4(thats if they dont take the same dumb route as microsoft)

[Tsk Tsk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cn_NoMjuFLc

I DON'T WANT THIS PIECE OF CRAP!!!!!

[Androidpk]

Assuming Sony doesn't do the same I'm sure a lot of people will be going for the PS4 instead of the xbone.

[Nathala Crane]

Heh! Francis is pissed. And rightfully so; Xbone is downright anti-consumer. PC gamers have dealt with DRM for a long time, but at least with Steam I get insanely good sales every few months and can put it in offline mode if needed. :P

[AnticorRifling]

That dude is a complete douchebag.

[Androidpk]

That dude is a complete douchebag.

Actually he's a pretty decent guy if you watch his real videos. Francis is just a character.

[AnticorRifling]

Then correction: this character is a douchebag.

[Methais]

How does this thing detect if too many people are playing, and what do they consider too many?

[Tgo01]

How does this thing detect if too many people are playing, and what do they consider too many?

I was wondering the same thing. I'd be pretty worried if my gaming console knew how many people were playing a game with me.

[Nathala Crane]

From the info I've pieced together, it seems that once you purchase a game, you and up to 10 registered "family members" can play the game on any console at any time. You can give a game to a friend if they have been on your friends list for 30 days, and then it's theirs and they're stuck with it. Trade-ins are up to the publisher and only at "participating retailers."

Edit: Oh, and Kinect is what tells the console how many people are playing with you. The kicker: the new Kinect won't be able to be disconnected.

[TheEschaton]

I believe they determine "family members" by login to your XBox account. So if I'm TheEschaton on XBox, and I own Saints Row 4, I can register some accounts on my console as my "family" and they can play SR4 on my console at any time, I believe, even if I'm not there.

I don't think they'll be able to play it from another console though, I think the "right" only extends to that home console ("home" being where the game was applied.)

Basically, it's saying your friends can play your games if they come over to your house.....which has been true of every console ever.

[AnticorRifling]

This shit is going to kill their sales.

[Nathala Crane]

This shit is going to kill their sales.

I can definitely see it backfiring as their customers become more choosy about which games they're willing to shell out $60 for.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Thank God for 20 year old text based MMORPGs. The sole reason my x-box hasn't seen the light of day in a very long time.

[Sile]

One thing I'm curious about, maybe the publishers are demanding this type of change. If so it could mean that Sony has no choice but to offer similar 'features'.

If a few of the big publishers demand it, Sony wouldn't have a choice.

[Nathala Crane]

Thank God for 20 year old text based MMORPGs. The sole reason my x-box hasn't seen the light of day in a very long time.

"Our game's graphics are powered by the most powerful GPU of all - the imagination!"

Wasn't that in Melissa's old "Letter to Parents?" lol.

[AnticorRifling]

One thing I'm curious about, maybe the publishers are demanding this type of change. If so it could mean that Sony has no choice but to offer similar 'features'.

If a few of the big publishers demand it, Sony wouldn't have a choice.


Publishers can demand all they want, if customers don't buy they're fucked (proper). And I really hope gamers do stick it to them on shit like this.

[m444w]

One thing I'm curious about, maybe the publishers are demanding this type of change. If so it could mean that Sony has no choice but to offer similar 'features'.

If a few of the big publishers demand it, Sony wouldn't have a choice.

Publishers can't demand shit when you own the audience. Microsoft wants you to buy Microsoft points so they can float the currency to expand another revenue stream, in much the same way Amazon is with their proposed virtual currency. Being in the financial sector is a license to steal.

[subzero]

One thing I'm curious about, maybe the publishers are demanding this type of change. If so it could mean that Sony has no choice but to offer similar 'features'.

If a few of the big publishers demand it, Sony wouldn't have a choice.

Tell the publishers to fuck off. What are they gonna do, make their own system so they can continue to stay in business? Let'em try.

[Latrinsorm]

That is where Microsoft came from, no? Software producer who branched into game hardware.

Another thing to consider is that the most popular gaming hardware are arguably phones, publishers might not be too heartbroken by abandoning a dying platform. The PS3 probably isn't even going to outsell the original PS, for instance, that's not a great sign for the vitality of the industry. Then again, Nintendo went backwards with every console generation from NES to GameCube before passing them all with the Wii, so who knows.

[subzero]

That is where Microsoft came from, no? Software producer who branched into game hardware.


Yep, and if these publishers were told to piss off when they demanded this lockdown garbage and were able to turn around and successfully make a game console that uses the DRM stuff, good for them. I don't think it would happen, though, which is why the three big guys (Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft) should have told them to pound sand. Had the three major players said no to the changes, a fourth player is going to have a very difficult (impossible, more likely) time making a mark if their system is designed around something the consumers absolutely want no part of.

I can't quite understand how or why these companies seem to think that purchasing software should be treated differently from anything else I buy. Motherfucker, I paid the money, I own the item to use as I wish. Anything I buy, I can sell. It's mine, I have that right. Anything I own, I can take somewhere else and use it however I want to. If I buy a movie or game, I can and should absolutely be able to let anyone I want take that DVD/game and use it wherever they want. So here's a big flaming, "Fuck you!" to the software companies and eggheads that think they can define ownership for us:

http://wallpoper.com/images/00/08/31/87/middle-finger_00083187.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

Couldn't you have said the same thing about the big three of Sega, Atari, and Nintendo? 2/3rds were entrenched powers that got absolutely annihilated, and Nintendo pre-Wii looked like they were headed the same way.

As to why it should be treated differently: because they can (and will) get away with it. You never get what you deserve in this life, only what you have the leverage to negotiate for, and the disorganized mob is at a severe disadvantage vs. the wealthy on that front. Just saying so doesn't make you have a right.

[Methais]

As to why it should be treated differently: because they can (and will) get away with it.

Hopefully that's where the free market will come in, not buy into their bullshit, and they'll be forced to stop being cases of dick soda.

[TheEschaton]

except all the broheims in the frat'll be like DUDE I CAN SEE MY FANTASY TEAMS WHILE I WATCH FOOTBALL THEN PLAY SOME CALL OF DUTY and they'll all buy it.

[Jarvan]

Couldn't you have said the same thing about the big three of Sega, Atari, and Nintendo? 2/3rds were entrenched powers that got absolutely annihilated, and Nintendo pre-Wii looked like they were headed the same way.

As to why it should be treated differently: because they can (and will) get away with it. You never get what you deserve in this life, only what you have the leverage to negotiate for, and the disorganized mob is at a severe disadvantage vs. the wealthy on that front. Just saying so doesn't make you have a right.

Isn't there a law that says a company can't really do this though? I know there was something recently in the news about reselling some items (books I think) that were made outside the country or something.

yeah.. here it is.

http://paidcontent.org/2013/03/19/supreme-court-sides-with-bookseller-in-major-copyright-ruling-says-resale-is-ok/

Seems to me that based on the courts ruling, if it applied to Games, they could not legally be allowed to limit the use of the game once it was legally purchased. Of course, this has been done with PC games for years, so who knows how it would really land.

[TheEschaton]

yeah, like I said, digital IP and virtual IP law is nebulous and, quite frankly, run by the businesses that produce the IP. And old lawmakers who can't quite wrap their head around the idea of "virtual property" say to themselves "Of course it's not the consumer's, it's not real, while the only real manifestation of it exists on the company's server." Remember how big a story it was when someone bought something in EVE for essentially a couple grand?

[Jarvan]

yeah, like I said, digital IP and virtual IP law is nebulous and, quite frankly, run by the businesses that produce the IP. And old lawmakers who can't quite wrap their head around the idea of "virtual property" say to themselves "Of course it's not the consumer's, it's not real, while the only real manifestation of it exists on the company's server." Remember how big a story it was when someone bought something in EVE for essentially a couple grand?

Yeah, I remember how it was with EQ back in the day. or Ultima Online.

I am sure someone though will try to press the case. With PC games, it was done to prevent pirating. Because it was so easy to copy the stuff, or just install it on multiple comps. Generally, with console games, you have to have the disc.

[Latrinsorm]

Hopefully that's where the free market will come in, not buy into their bullshit, and they'll be forced to stop being cases of dick soda.Industrial workers used to lose limbs and the free market didn't give a shit. The question then becomes whether not being able to sell a video game is more or less horrific than human dismemberment.

Also remember that the free market isn't based on what you find offensive, it's based on individuals pursuing their own best interest. If the average person cares more about their playing Halo 9 than your ability to sell games, the free market is not your ally here.

[DarkSorc]

By making the Xbox One have to connect to the internet every 24 hours, they have alienated the entire military gaming community basically. Even at MWR(Morale, Welfare, and Recreation) internet is not a guaranteed thing. I have owned an Xbox since they came out and I really do not like PlayStation, but I am really liking the specs on the availability of PS4.

[Sile]

http://wiiudaily.com/2013/06/microsoft-sends-staff-to-wii-u-events-to-sway-gamers-for-xbox-one/

[AnticorRifling]

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xbox-One-Games-E3-Were-Running-Windows-7-With-Nvidia-GTX-Cards-56737.html

Go home Microsoft you're drunk.

[Androidpk]

Proof that consumers still have some power over corporations.

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-is-removing-xbox-one-drm-514390310

[Nathala Crane]

Good. It was stupid. Still not getting one at launch, though.

[AnticorRifling]

I think the damage was done, not sure this will help a ton. It will help but too many people will be skeptical of a bait and switch.

[Latrinsorm]

Developers unveil plan for hugely unpopular design
Customer backlash
Developers unveil plan for design that is by comparison popular but still customer-unfriendly
Customers eat it up with their dumb cow eyes and... dumb cow... mouths?

You know what I mean. Did Microsoft stop the presses, or is this what they intended all along? What image is more plausible: somewhere Bill Gates is gleefully tapping his fingers together and shrieking "Dance! Dance, my puppets!"; or, somewhere Bill Gates is contritely hanging his head in shame, sobbing "Darnit, I'm really sorry you guys, I'm just an ol' dunderhead!"

[Tgo01]

Well, I wouldn't go quite as far as Latrin there but I have a feeling this will hurt Microsoft very little. The vast majority of people these days are like 3 year olds, they'll throw a tantrum and cry for a while when they don't get their way but they'll soon forget about it.

[tyrant-201]

Developers unveil plan for hugely unpopular design
Customer backlash
Developers unveil plan for design that is by comparison popular but still customer-unfriendly
Customers eat it up with their dumb cow eyes and... dumb cow... mouths?

You know what I mean. Did Microsoft stop the presses, or is this what they intended all along? What image is more plausible: somewhere Bill Gates is gleefully tapping his fingers together and shrieking "Dance! Dance, my puppets!"; or, somewhere Bill Gates is contritely hanging his head in shame, sobbing "Darnit, I'm really sorry you guys, I'm just an ol' dunderhead!"

Somewhere Bill Gates is just thinking to himself "I have too much money to care."

[Tgo01]

Somewhere Bill Gates is just thinking to himself "I have too much money to care."

Spoken like a true 99%er! Don't you have a piece of PRIVATE LAND to Occupy?

Rich people often have to seek counseling because they worry about having too much money, so stop being so insensitive! (http://www.thelmagazine.com/TheMeasure/archives/2012/04/11/super-rich-seek-wealth-counseling-to-ease-pains-of-being-one-percent)

[Latrinsorm]

Somewhere Bill Gates is just thinking to himself "I have too much money to care."Between this and the complaining about me calling libtards libtards thing, it's like you don't even know politics. If I offer you two choices, you are absolutely required to pick one of them and are absolutely not allowed to offer a third choice. That's why there is no such phrase as "false dichotomy".

[Androidpk]

At least they're trying.

http://i43.tinypic.com/mmvbew.gif

[Taernath]

You know what I mean. Did Microsoft stop the presses, or is this what they intended all along?

Why would they press for a hugely unpopular setup, during the console's unveiling and E3 of all places, if they were just going to remove it anyway? They got a fuckton of bad press and it would have been a much better strategy to just not do it in the first place.

I think the whole situation is from Xbone being designed primarily with corporate interests in mind, i.e. make as much money as possible. I'm not naive enough to think this isn't the bottom line anywhere, but in this case they were restricting consumers. Their consoles are sold at a loss, so MS has to make their profit elsewhere, and preventing reselling is one way to try and remedy that loss. MS probably didn't expect the outcry to be this huge.

It's kind of funny that the DRM/used game thing is apparently as easy to change as flipping a switch. On the plus side though, Xbone is now competitive with the PS4, which can only be a good thing in the long run. Sony was poised to steamroll this generation, and that doesn't lead to a lot of innovation or improvement.

Still getting a PS4 though.

[tyrant-201]

Between this and the complaining about me calling libtards libtards thing, it's like you don't even know politics. If I offer you two choices, you are absolutely required to pick one of them and are absolutely not allowed to offer a third choice. That's why there is no such phrase as "false dichotomy".

What is this politics you speak of? I choose not to choose, and that's my choice! As an AMERICAN!

[Latrinsorm]

Why would they press for a hugely unpopular setup, during the console's unveiling and E3 of all places, if they were just going to remove it anyway? They got a fuckton of bad press and it would have been a much better strategy to just not do it in the first place.

I think the whole situation is from Xbone being designed primarily with corporate interests in mind, i.e. make as much money as possible. I'm not naive enough to think this isn't the bottom line anywhere, but in this case they were restricting consumers. Their consoles are sold at a loss, so MS has to make their profit elsewhere, and preventing reselling is one way to try and remedy that loss. MS probably didn't expect the outcry to be this huge.

It's kind of funny that the DRM/used game thing is apparently as easy to change as flipping a switch. On the plus side though, Xbone is now competitive with the PS4, which can only be a good thing in the long run. Sony was poised to steamroll this generation, and that doesn't lead to a lot of innovation or improvement.

Still getting a PS4 though.Oh, they definitely underestimated the blag-o-blog outcry. No question there. But as you say... "It's kind of funny that the DRM/used game thing is apparently as easy to change as flipping a switch." Funny or incredible? That is, not credible; that is, an obvious lie; that is, evidence that they are playing you (however ineptly).

[Taernath]

Oh, they definitely underestimated the blag-o-blog outcry. No question there. But as you say... "It's kind of funny that the DRM/used game thing is apparently as easy to change as flipping a switch." Funny or incredible? That is, not credible; that is, an obvious lie; that is, evidence that they are playing you (however ineptly).

It's SimCity all over again.

"SimCity is so complex, it needs to be online only so that processing power is offloaded onto EA servers."
"But I can run it offline if I change a line in the .ini file an-"
"SIMCITY IS SO COMPLEX IT NEEDS TO BE ONLINE ONLY!"

In fact, I seem to remember MS saying something about Xbone using cloud processing. I wonder if that was a bag of dicks as well.

[Latrinsorm]

What if, like... we're all inside a, you know... SimCity??? And Keanu Reeves is the player? Which, frankly, would explain a lot.

[Androidpk]

EA didn't change anything because of the Simcity outcry though. All they did was hand out some free games.

[Androidpk]

In fact, I seem to remember MS saying something about Xbone using cloud processing. I wonder if that was a bag of dicks as well.

Developers can and are making using of the cloud capabilities, from larger game worlds to AI. From what I understand the Xbox 360 is currently using 15,000 servers for everything related to it. Xbone will start out with 300,000 servers.

[senorgordoburro]

http://news.yahoo.com/microsoft-xbox-180-upcoming-xbox-one-drop-drm-204824307.html

They just changed a lot due to the outcry about their upcoming sharing and connectivity plans.

[senorgordoburro]

Disregard... I am late.

[Sile]

Meh I still think none of this will matter once Xbone gets a few exclusives that are popular. Gears of war, Forza, Halo. Etc.