Gay Christians

[Overlord]

I don't understand this at all, its fundamentally flawed. I also don't understand why gays want to get married in a church that does not recognize their union....and condems it. If its acceptable...then surely its fine for jews and muslims to eat pork. And just to clarify, im not homophobic and quite a few homosexual friends....who also think it is ridiculous. Just the other day I was having a conversation with a lesbian about how marriage is between a woman and a man, and she agreed that they should have their own ceremony (Or whatever)

Its the same way Im sick of immigrants moving and demanding the country they move to change in order to adapt to them. Eh, sorry, but thats not how it works. Like I would get away with moving to the middle east and opening a 24/7 topless bar...If you don't like the ethics and morals (religious or otherwise) of a country, then why the hell would you move there in the first place?! When I move out of the U.K you can guarentee I will adapt to the country I move to, not the other way around.

/end rant

[Delias]

I don't understand this at all, its fundamentally flawed. I also don't understand why gays want to get married in a church that does not recognize their union....and condems it. If its acceptable...then surely its fine for jews and muslims to eat pork. And just to clarify, im not homophobic and quite a few homosexual friends....who also think it is ridiculous. Just the other day I was having a conversation with a lesbian about how marriage is between a woman and a man, and she agreed that they should have their own ceremony (Or whatever)

Its the same way Im sick of immigrants moving and demanding the country they move to change in order to adapt to them. Eh, sorry, but thats not how it works. Like I would get away with moving to the middle east and opening a 24/7 topless bar...If you don't like the ethics and morals (religious or otherwise) of a country, then why the hell would you move there in the first place?! When I move out of the U.K you can guarentee I will adapt to the country I move to, not the other way around.

/end rant

You're right, this comes off as totally not homophobic.

[Overlord]

Why is it homophobic? I take that my homosexual friends are also homophobic because they share this view?

[Gelston]

Yeah, because a 24/7 topless bar in the middle east would be retarded. They have full on proper whore houses there.

[Warriorbird]

You could totally open a topless bar in the Middle East. In some places it might even be wildly successful.

Some Christian sects accept gay people. Some places don't, but are totally down with renting out their places (for money.)

Immigrants always have net benefits and negatives to the countries they arrive in.

Why worry?

[Overlord]

Religion is great for the religious, not so good for everyone else.

[Showal]

Religion is great for the religious, not so good for everyone else.

These are good rants.

[Overlord]

Its just this whole bloody concept of whats PC and whats not. A colleague was just telling me how his son is not allowed to sing Bah Bah Black Sheep......his son came home singing "Bah Bah Rainbow Sheep" like come on get a god damn grip! They have banned doing nativity plays at christmas at certain schools because parents complained their kids couldn't be part of it and felt it wasn't right they should be excluded. So now all of our own kids are excluded from our own traditions?

It seems I was mistaken with /end rant lol MY apologies PC'ers. Just one of those mornings I guess. Fuck it

[Showal]

Its just this whole bloody concept of whats PC and whats not. A colleague was just telling me how his son is not allowed to sing Bah Bah Black Sheep......his son came home singing "Bah Bah Rainbow Sheep" like come on get a god damn grip! They have banned doing nativity plays at christmas at certain schools because parents complained their kids couldn't be part of it and felt it wasn't right they should be excluded. So now all of our own kids are excluded from our own traditions?

It seems I was mistaken with /end rant lol MY apologies PC'ers. Just one of those mornings I guess. Fuck it

Exactly! Like come on!!!

[Overlord]

http://media.tumblr.com/cbab2335f8ceeaf6d8887a4d830f5557/tumblr_inline_mn28plNHCc1qz4rgp.gif

edit: Gotta say, ya made me grin lol

[Showal]

Why is it homophobic? I take that my homosexual friends are also homophobic because they share this view?

This is a good point. I had an Asian roommate that hated Asians. I took comfort in knowing that his views made my own racism against Asians acceptable. That's what I agree with the most in your rants.

[Thondalar]

Why is it homophobic? I take that my homosexual friends are also homophobic because they share this view?

I'm totally not racist because I have black friends.


-Thond

[Overlord]

Point out my homophobia please. Pinpoint my fear of gays. Im so afraid I hold them in high regard and as close friends. Afraid of them ruining marriage? At the end of the day I voted FOR gay marriage, I just don't understand why they would want it.

[Showal]

Point out my homophobia please. Pinpoint my fear of gays. Im so afraid I hold them in high regard and as close friends. Afraid of them ruining marriage? At the end of the day I voted FOR gay marriage, I just don't understand why they would want it.

You're not scared of gays as in shaking in your boots, but not understanding why gays would want to get formal acceptance into a community when they may be religious is like asking why dem blacks cared to get accepted in the US when it was clear they weren't welcome.

Do you understand how social change happens? Or do you think that gay people should simply accept the status quo and resign to the fact that their own communities may not accept them?

Grow the fuck up. You know exactly how your views are homophobic or else you would had to clarify that you're not homophobic and have gay friends.

[Fallen]

The trick to being happy is to ignore everything that doesn't directly affect you. This applies 100% to the situations you described.

[Overlord]

I'm totally not racist because I have black friends.


-Thond

Yes, because thats the same thing as homophobic homosexuals. At least Showals point about his Asian friend was more accurate (Despite the fact Im not saying Im not homphobic because I have gay friends)

I don't have a problem with it, let them get married if thats what they want....its a sexual preference that does not inherantly define someone (Although camp men do my fucking head in). The whole damn thing shouldn't be a fucking problem. "oooh its undermining the sanctity of marriage!!" yet I don't see any of them picketing Drive Thru wedding chappels in vegas. No fucking perspective from them on that.

So on that stance of wanting acceptance without prejudice/punishment or being made a social pariah...yeah this is more of a humanitarian issue, sexual preference should not play a part in it.

[Ryvicke]

Yes, because thats the same thing as homophobic homosexuals. At least Showals point about his Asian friend was more accurate (Despite the fact Im not saying Im not homphobic because I have gay friends)

I don't have a problem with it, let them get married if thats what they want....its a sexual preference that does not inherantly define someone (Although camp men do my fucking head in). The whole damn thing shouldn't be a fucking problem. "oooh its undermining the sanctity of marriage!!" yet I don't see any of them picketing Drive Thru wedding chappels in vegas. No fucking perspective from them on that.

So on that stance of wanting acceptance without prejudice/punishment or being made a social pariah...yeah this is more of a humanitarian issue, sexual preference should not play a part in it.

What are "camp men" and why are they "doing your fooking head in ROITE?"

Why do gays grow up in the church thinking they're loved by God no matter what sort of buttsecks they get down to? So camp.

[Ltlprprincess]

This is a good point. I had an Asian roommate that hated Asians. I took comfort in knowing that his views made my own racism against Asians acceptable. That's what I agree with the most in your rants.

I'm Hispanic. I can't stand most Hispanics.

[Showal]

What are "camp men" and why are they "doing your fooking head in ROITE?"

Why do gays grow up in the church thinking they're loved by God no matter what sort of buttsecks they get down to? So camp.

Camp men are those guys who always choose snipers in counter strike.

And it is like peeps be thinking there is more than one way to follow christianity to the letter!! Shit! What do these bitches think this shit it? A highly contested collection of writings written thousands of years ago in antiquated languages using out dated words and themes that have been translated several hundred different ways even into the same language and don't fit well to our current society but people try their best to make it work? There is only one way to worship the gey wookie and that's by running. brb time to go tell some middle school boys they can't get married since they spill their seed onto the ground nightly!!!!

[Delias]

I don't define sexual behavior or gender as an identity. In essence what it comes down to, far from being a "PC" issue, is that your personal preference or behavior that affects nobody but you and willing partners should not be used to deny you what is in essence a basic human right that has existed in multiple forms since the dawn of mankind. I personally prefer the old "club 'em when you spot 'em" method of marriage, but if two dudes want to get hitched in their lace panties or two chicks want to march down the aisle in their lumberjack flannels, more power to 'em. The two couples can even switch outfits if they would be more comfortable being less stereotyped.

I prefer the roman point of view. Gay or straight is irrelevant, you are either the fucker or the fucked.

[Showal]

I'm Hispanic. I can't stand most Hispanics.

Too bad we're not besties. This would make it totally cool to say "why dem Hispanics coming to America??? Let's put up a fence and keep bitches out! Don't dey know dey aint welcome? But that aint cause I dont like Hispanics, I got a Hispanic friend and dat bitch doesn't even like dem, so straight up, look me in the eye and tell me dat bitch racist before you even think to suggest I am"

[Tgo01]

Darn gays wanting equal rights! Who do they think they are, American citizens?!

[Ltlprprincess]

Too bad we're not besties. This would make it totally cool to say "why dem Hispanics coming to America??? Let's put up a fence and keep bitches out! Don't dey know dey aint welcome? But that aint cause I dont like Hispanics, I got a Hispanic friend and dat bitch doesn't even like dem, so straight up, look me in the eye and tell me dat bitch racist before you even think to suggest I am"

We can braid each other's hair!

[Showal]

We can braid each other's hair!

I'm severely lacking in the hair department.

[Gelston]

I'm severely lacking in the hair department.

You mean... Your avatar isn't a pic of you?

[Showal]

You mean... Your avatar isn't a pic of you?

Fuck! Caught! I knew it'd be easier just to tell the truth than to maintain a lie!

[Ltlprprincess]

Fuck! Caught! I knew it'd be easier just to tell the truth than to maintain a lie!

Damn... and it looked so pretty, too... Then again, I was beginning to wonder how a dog in a suit could type so well.

[Candor]

Fuck! Caught! I knew it'd be easier just to tell the truth than to maintain a lie!

I didn't think you looked that good in real life.

[Showal]

I didn't think you looked that good in real life.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!! Good one!

[4a6c1]

I'm Hispanic. I can't stand most Hispanics.

Most Puerto Ricans do not consider themselves Hispanic, they consider themselves white due to shared values and cultural background of the mainland.

[Gelston]

Hispanic isn't a race, anyways.

[4a6c1]

There is no such thing as race anyways. BOOM ANTHROPOLOGIED

[Ltlprprincess]

Most Puerto Ricans do not consider themselves Hispanic, they consider themselves white due to shared values and cultural background of the mainland.

Curse you and your logic!

[Sylvan Dreams]

Most Puerto Ricans do not consider themselves Hispanic, they consider themselves white due to shared values and cultural background of the mainland.

Never heard that before. Most Puerto Ricans I know, if not all, consider themselves to be Hispanic.

[Buckwheet]

Weird, I would have thought they would have considered themselves Puerto Rican.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Weird, I would have thought they would have considered themselves Puerto Rican.

Or Boricua or Latina, depending on the audience.

[Ltlprprincess]

Problem is... when you're filling stuff out, there is the option of Ethnicity: hispanic or not hispanic. There is no actual check box for hispanic under race, which is really kinda wierd. I don't view myself as white, black, asian, indian or whatever, but those are apparently my only options.

[Methais]

You're not scared of gays as in shaking in your boots, but not understanding why gays would want to get formal acceptance into a community when they may be religious is like asking why dem blacks cared to get accepted in the US when it was clear they weren't welcome.

Do you understand how social change happens? Or do you think that gay people should simply accept the status quo and resign to the fact that their own communities may not accept them?

Grow the fuck up. You know exactly how your views are homophobic or else you would had to clarify that you're not homophobic and have gay friends.

If someone were homophobic, then wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that they don't have any gay friends, since he would have to hate gay people in order to be homophobic?

Maybe it's just me, but I interpreted the OP as, "Why would gays wanna get married? Look at how miserable it makes straight people."


Most Puerto Ricans do not consider themselves Hispanic, they consider themselves white due to shared values and cultural background of the mainland.

Does that mean wiggers can consider themselves black and it would be legit?

[tyrant-201]

I may be dumb (actually I'm quite sure of it) - but doesn't hispanic imply some trace of, I don't know, spanish lineage? Spaniards are/were European, no?

I mean we don't stop calling African-Americans African just because they've lived somewhere else for 300+ years.

[Methais]

I mean we don't stop calling African-Americans African just because they've lived somewhere else for 300+ years.

That remind me of some fairly recent news bit where they were like "African-Americans all over the world are blah blah blah blah."

/facepalm

[Ryvicke]

I don't understand this at all, its fundamentally flawed. I also don't understand why gays want to get married in a church that does not recognize their union....and condems it. If its acceptable...then surely its fine for jews and muslims to eat pork. And just to clarify, im not homophobic and quite a few homosexual friends....who also think it is ridiculous. Just the other day I was having a conversation with a lesbian about how marriage is between a woman and a man, and she agreed that they should have their own ceremony (Or whatever)

How does that sound like he's saying don't do it because it sucks? He's saying pretty clearly, "why do you want to join a club that doesn't want you?" Which is pretty much the same shit minority groups have heard since the beginning of time, not to mention it lacks any mention of the very real benefits of recognized marriage that has nothing to do with religion.

Coupled with the second paragraph about immigrants forcing their lifestyle on us (lol wut?) and the whole thing sounded dumb as shit.

[Methais]

immigrants forcing their lifestyle on us (lol wut?)

You're saying that doesn't happen to any degree?

[Ryvicke]

You're saying that doesn't happen to any degree?

I live with a shitload of immigrants and not one has forced their lifestyle on me in 9 years. Unless driving me around and cooking me falafel counts.

[Methais]

I live with a shitload of immigrants and not one has forced their lifestyle on me in 9 years. Unless driving me around and cooking me falafel counts.

I'm not saying it's some widespread epidemic. But if it's never happened to you, then it must not happen anywhere.

[Delias]

Problem is... when you're filling stuff out, there is the option of Ethnicity: hispanic or not hispanic. There is no actual check box for hispanic under race, which is really kinda wierd. I don't view myself as white, black, asian, indian or whatever, but those are apparently my only options.

As far as I can tell, black, white, native american... those are character creation races. Hispanic is a template that can be applied, but is apparently not it's own race in the Monster Manual.

[Ryvicke]

I'm not saying it's some widespread epidemic. But if it's never happened to you, then it must not happen anywhere.

Why aren't you responding about how your subconscious somehow read words that weren't in the OP and then posted them as your personal summary of it? Or give some examples of how immigrants forced their way of life on you?

Common reading errors are gay but purposeful idiocy is the mark of a faggot.

[Showal]

Why aren't you responding about how your subconscious somehow read words that weren't in the OP and then posted them as your personal summary of it? Or give some examples of how immigrants forced their way of life on you?

Common reading errors are gay but purposeful idiocy is the mark of a faggot.

Oh snap methais! YOU GON LET EM TALK 2 U LIKE DAT LOL?

[Methais]

Why aren't you responding about how your subconscious somehow read words that weren't in the OP and then posted them as your personal summary of it? Or give some examples of how immigrants forced their way of life on you?

Common reading errors are gay but purposeful idiocy is the mark of a faggot.

Every time I have to search a label, manual, etc. for the part that's written in English because shit is plastered in Spanish everywhere because these assholes come here and refuse to learn our language is a pretty widespread example. I could probably go dig up some articles about some bullshit with Mexican flags in schools and then them raising hell over American flags, like that Live Oak Cinco de Mayo shit from a few years ago, but having to read everything in Spanish all over the place in an English speaking country should suffice for now.

Feel free to explain to me how them refusing to learn English falls under the category of melting-into-the-melting-pot though.

Now you can stop being a faggot. Start being a homosexual male like NPH instead.

[Delias]

Every time I have to search a label, manual, etc. for the part that's written in English because shit is plastered in Spanish everywhere because these assholes come here and refuse to learn our language is a pretty widespread example. I could probably go dig up some articles about some bullshit with Mexican flags in schools and then them raising hell over American flags, like that Live Oak Cinco de Mayo shit from a few years ago, but having to read everything in Spanish all over the place in an English speaking country should suffice for now.

Feel free to explain to me how them refusing to learn English falls under the category of melting-into-the-melting-pot though.

Now you can stop being a faggot. Start being a homosexual male like NPH instead.


While I do believe an immigrant to this country should learn english, I'm not particularly offended by seeing things written in spanish. English may be our most common language, but it is obviously not the only one. I'm not positive, but I believe we lack an official national language.

My grandfather and his brothers weren't allowed to learn or speak swedish as kids, because "American's speak English". That was my great-grandfather's ruling on the matter. However, as someone who wishes he could speak both swedish AND english, I wish he had held a different view. It's a big country, dude, there is room for a lot of variety.

[Ryvicke]

Every time I have to search a label, manual, etc. for the part that's written in English because shit is plastered in Spanish everywhere

Yo dude are you a jew or something? Cause I didn't understand a word of that heeb bullshit.

Apologies to the NPHs

[Showal]

Every time I have to search a label, manual, etc. for the part that's written in English because shit is plastered in Spanish everywhere because these assholes come here and refuse to learn our language is a pretty widespread example. I could probably go dig up some articles about some bullshit with Mexican flags in schools and then them raising hell over American flags, like that Live Oak Cinco de Mayo shit from a few years ago, but having to read everything in Spanish all over the place in an English speaking country should suffice for now.

Feel free to explain to me how them refusing to learn English falls under the category of melting-into-the-melting-pot though.

Now you can stop being a faggot. Start being a homosexual male like NPH instead.

Have you ever tried to speak fluently in another language? Social isolation and ineffective classes make it hard to learn a new one.

How long should an immigrant be allowed to live in this country before being required to learn English? Should it be a requirement for entry? Have you ever tried to speak another language to someone else? It's kind of embarrassing and scary.

The English language argument truthfully is the most ignorant of arguments. We are a diverse country but a lot of Americans act like isolated idiots and are happy to never experience something non-american.

getting upset over seeing Spanish is like getting upset because books are written that you don't want to read. Don't read it.

[TheEschaton]

People who are gay and raised in a Christian household want Christianity to accept them because those are their cultural beliefs. And despite what the Church and various Christian sects say, the New Testament is a document about loving everyone equally, fighting for the oppressed, and not being a hypocrite.

IOW, to quote some other guy's post I once read:

Everything Jesus ever said about gay people: " "

[Methais]

How long should an immigrant be allowed to live in this country before being required to learn English?

2 years.


Should it be a requirement for entry?

No, but it should be a requirement for citizenship.


Have you ever tried to speak another language to someone else? It's kind of embarrassing and scary.

Practice makes perfect, right?


Yo dude are you a jew or something? Cause I didn't understand a word of that heeb bullshit.

Apologies to the NPHs

I'm sorry about your disability. Now apologize to the Jews. They're smart businessmen too.

[Showal]

2 years.



No, but it should be a requirement for citizenship.



Practice makes perfect, right?



I'm sorry about your disability. Now apologize to the Jews. They're smart businessmen too.

5 years? I saw kids take a foreign language from 4th grade through college and not end up anywhere near proficient or even comfortable enough to attempt a conversation. I guess we expect foreigners to be more capable than our own. If someone fails to learn English, does this really affect you more than just being annoying to you?

[Methais]

5 years? I saw kids take a foreign language from 4th grade through college and not end up anywhere near proficient or even comfortable enough to attempt s conversation. I guess we expect foreigners to be more capable than our own. If someone fails to learn English, does this really you more than just being annoying to you?

I didn't say anything about mastering the language or being fluent. Only putting forth some effort to learn it.

[Showal]

I didn't say anything about mastering the language or being fluent. Only putting forth some effort to learn it.

I'm sure from your posts on the subject that you're a good judge on effort.

[tyrant-201]

Might not have an official language - but considering laws, important documents, the judicial system and American culture in general relies on the english language I'd say it's pretty close to being official.

That said, it doesn't bother me that people speak spanish or any other language. It probably bothers the people who can't speak english in their day to day interactions more than the general public who has to deal with it far less often.

[msconstrew]

What do you judge as being "some effort"? I took 13 years of Spanish. I can conduct a conversation but I am nowhere near fluent. Somehow I doubt you would consider someone who speaks pidgin English to have put forth sufficient "effort" to meet your nebulous definition.

[Gnome Rage]

Yo dude are you a jew or something? Cause I didn't understand a word of that heeb bullshit.

Apologies to the NPHs

Haven't read the thread. Saw this in activity stream.
died.
lol

[Methais]

What do you judge as being "some effort"? I took 13 years of Spanish. I can conduct a conversation but I am nowhere near fluent. Somehow I doubt you would consider someone who speaks pidgin English to have put forth sufficient "effort" to meet your nebulous definition.

Being able to form something even halfway understandable instead of just staring at you like this:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3056/2822952455_bbb1fb51f6_z.jpg?zz=1

Take the most broken form of Engrish, apply it to Spanish, and I would be fine with that.

An Asian family lives next door to me. They're hard to understand, but you can hold a conversation with them. The Mexicans that live next to them are the same way.

Why is that considered too much to ask in an English speaking country?

[Showal]

Being able to form something even halfway understandable instead of just staring at you like this:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3056/2822952455_bbb1fb51f6_z.jpg?zz=1

Take the most broken form of Engrish, apply it to Spanish, and I would be fine with that.

An Asian family lives next door to me. They're hard to understand, but you can hold a conversation with them. The Mexicans that live next to them are the same way.

Why is that considered too much to ask in an English speaking country?

Because we are not a country with an official language?

[msconstrew]

An Asian family lives next door to me. They're hard to understand, but you can hold a conversation with them. The Mexicans that live next to them are the same way.

Why is that considered too much to ask in an English speaking country?

Who said it was too much to ask? Most people were taking issue with your failure to define your terms. Some people who live here are just not going to learn the language. And if they can get by like that, then I don't much care about it. What you're saying is problematic because you still aren't being clear about what you want. Should they be able to conjugate verbs? Is it a vocabulary issue? Is "common" English okay or do they have to speak "business" English, too?

I feel like this whole "national language" thing is yet another subtle form of racism and xenophobia that's pervaded this country.

[Showal]

It's really annoying dealing with someone who can't speak English, but imagine them trying to get healthcare or schooling in a country who thinks they're not trying hard enough to learn English and they shouldn't be here as a result. Seems ripe for a situation that is hard to improve.

[EasternBrand]

To be fair, I have grave doubts about the level of English language proficiency for a vast number of people born and raised in this country by English-speaking parents.

[Androidpk]

Can I be a muslim and still eat bacon just because I like to eat bacon?

[Tenlaar]

Let's be honest here. I took spanish in school as well and I don't remember half of it because we don't live in a spanish speaking country and I didn't not put forth the effort to keep up on it. If I had learned spanish and then moved to a spanish speaking country I am betting I would be pretty damn good at speaking the language now. To act as if somebody living in a country for years and not speaking the language is anything but a pure refusal to do so seems ridiculous to me.

I used to supervise a large group of mexican immigrants with a smaller group of indian immigrants thrown in. The amount of them who either honestly didn't speak english or who would pretend not to speak english when they didn't want to do something could be infuriating some days.

[msconstrew]

To be fair, I have grave doubts about the level of English language proficiency for a vast number of people born and raised in this country by English-speaking parents.

This is also an issue.

[Tenlaar]

Oh, I also feel that gay christians living in america should put forth an effort to speak basic english. It's not a race thing!

[EasternBrand]

Oh, I also feel that gay christians living in america should put forth an effort to speak basic english. It's not a race thing!

Most speak fabulous English.

[Latrinsorm]

I don't understand this at all, its fundamentally flawed.Christianity today is not (and could not possibly be) the Christianity of yesterday. This applies to every sociological entity: the only constant is change. That people throughout history have nevertheless insisted on fundamentalism only proves that people don't always think before they talk.
Its the same way Im sick of immigrants moving and demanding the country they move to change in order to adapt to them. Eh, sorry, but thats not how it works. Like I would get away with moving to the middle east and opening a 24/7 topless bar...If you don't like the ethics and morals (religious or otherwise) of a country, then why the hell would you move there in the first place?! When I move out of the U.K you can guarentee I will adapt to the country I move to, not the other way around.You say that's not how it works, but American history paints a very different picture. No one speaks Iroquoian. Someday no one will speak English. All things pass.
That remind me of some fairly recent news bit where they were like "African-Americans all over the world are blah blah blah blah."

/facepalmhttp://www.thefreedictionary.com/Expatriot

Also keep in mind that our Armed Forces have a disproportionately high number of minorities.
Every time I have to search a label, manual, etc. for the part that's written in English because shit is plastered in Spanish everywhere because these assholes come here and refuse to learn our language is a pretty widespread example. I could probably go dig up some articles about some bullshit with Mexican flags in schools and then them raising hell over American flags, like that Live Oak Cinco de Mayo shit from a few years ago, but having to read everything in Spanish all over the place in an English speaking country should suffice for now.Do you think this is due to the efforts of immigrants or the efforts of businesses looking to widen their customer base? I am pretty sure the President of Sony isn't a Hispanic, for instance.

You should spend some time being a minority, it would help you understand why you can produce zero examples of this meme.

[Tgo01]

How do things like this become a political/partisan issue?

I grew up in California in a very diverse city. Asians, whites, blacks, Mexicans, everyone coexisted peacefully (for the most part) somehow. My best friend growing up was Mexican so I can safely say I'm not racist!

The only places I really remember seeing things translated into other languages was for dangerous/emergency type things, like a sign saying don't stand in the stairwell of the bus while it's moving, where emergency exists were located, blah blah blah. It wasn't until my teens that I started noticing these signs becoming more widespread, suddenly you have to push an extra button when calling customer service if you speak English? Of course I speak English dammit!

I honestly don't mind that things are written in several languages, I don't care if people want to speak their native language and I don't even care if they don't/can't pick up English. What irks me is when they demand others to change the way they do things to suit them. As an example I used to work at a call center and we had to call another company to get a translator if the person didn't speak English. During the two years that I worked there I had close to 200 customers who didn't speak English, one spoke Vietnamese, one spoke German and the rest spoke Spanish. About 30 of those people who spoke Spanish wouldn't talk with me and a translator on the line, they literally demanded to speak with someone in my office who spoke Spanish, it got so bad that eventually they had to hire a group of people who spoke Spanish and they would only field the Spanish speaking calls.

What did people do before everything was translated into other languages? Since the vast majority of things I see that are translated into a language besides English are Spanish how do immigrants from other countries manage exactly? We do have immigrants from other countries, right?

But I guess racists are irked by these sort of things and we all know racists belong to the Republican party so Democrats had to invent some sort of counter argument to this. "We are a diverse nation of people so it's okay that they don't speak English. In fact we should learn another language!" My high school managed just fine with 99.9% of the student body speaking English, they even made do without any signs translated into other languages.

Maybe I grew up in a different period in California though, I haven't lived there in almost 20 years now. The whole school celebrated Cinco de Mayo, the Fourth of July, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Halloween (no dirty Muslim holidays though.) But now I guess it's racist in California to wear clothes with the American flag on it if it's the wrong day of the year.

[Latrinsorm]

About 30 of those people who spoke Spanish wouldn't talk with me and a translator on the line, they literally demanded to speak with someone in my office who spoke Spanish, it got so bad that eventually they had to hire a group of people who spoke Spanish and they would only field the Spanish speaking calls.The Spanish speakers had no power in that situation. The English speaking owner of your call center made the decision, you should blame them.

[Tgo01]

The Spanish speakers had no power in that situation. The English speaking owner of your call center made the decision, you should blame them.

I could blame both but that would make me racist.

[Ryvicke]

Do you think this is due to the efforts of immigrants or the efforts of businesses looking to widen their customer base? I am pretty sure the President of Sony isn't a Hispanic, for instance.

yur dumb. The Fraudbama liedministration passed a law that made my xbox instructions have like... a gazillion fucking languages cause Barry O'bowdown, the im-POTUS, hates white people. Nothing to do with any reality-based logistical printing decisions.

So you can thank Hussein Hopenchange OChavez for that one. IMMIGRANTS PUSHING THEIR WAY OF LIFE ON MY XBOX

EDIT: every good american should bkmrk this site: http://brainshavings.com/obama-nicknames/

[Showal]

Let's be honest here. I took spanish in school as well and I don't remember half of it because we don't live in a spanish speaking country and I didn't not put forth the effort to keep up on it. If I had learned spanish and then moved to a spanish speaking country I am betting I would be pretty damn good at speaking the language now. To act as if somebody living in a country for years and not speaking the language is anything but a pure refusal to do so seems ridiculous to me.

I used to supervise a large group of mexican immigrants with a smaller group of indian immigrants thrown in. The amount of them who either honestly didn't speak english or who would pretend not to speak english when they didn't want to do something could be infuriating some days.

That's good that you think after taking classes and moving to a country would work for you, but would moving to another country with no classes work for you? It'd probably be pretty fucking hard. You might even find a community of English speakers and spend a considerable amount of time with them, enjoying the culture and language you're most comfortable with.

[Showal]

Also, if people think English is easy to just pick up, spend some time looking through YouTube and online news article comments. The way Americans show they are incapable of communicating in their own language is amazing.

[4a6c1]

I became bored when I accidentally glanced at some silly uninformed posts in this thread. But funny points are awarded for Hussein Hopenchange OChavez. Good god, that is glorious. Also I LOVE Cinco de Mayo. It comes around my birthday time and involves all my favorite colors. Most Texans don't realize what their celebrating but we do it anyways. It's a great day.

On the subject of "Hispanic" as a cultural descriptor it refers to the diaspora of people who were hybridized by the conquering forces of the Spanish Empire during their high point of expeditionary colonizing. So this can refer to MANY cultures and people along the South American coasts, entire Central America, TEXAS and even parts of Africa and islands in the Pacific. It was really a vast empire. It's not a very good "cultural" descriptor for one person in my opinion because it refers to a historical diaspora and is not a consistent category for modern times. To test my opinion, think of all the people you know who call themselves Hispanic and how different they are culturally. Anyways, I know there are some pretty good published papers out there on the subject so if you want to change my mind you can link me to them. The ones I've read did not confront the African and Pacific Spanish colonies and this exclusion does not help to define Hispanic diaspora; it ruins any legitimacy of the definition.

[subzero]

You're right, this comes off as totally not homophobic.

I don't think the OP wrote the Bible and made the rules Christians are supposed to follow. Of course, it's all bullshit and no one lives the way they're supposed to as ordained by their religion anyway, so why not gay people? From what I can tell, as long as they're genuinely sorry about being gay and repent before they die, everything is cool anyway. Christianity rocks!

[Latrinsorm]

yur dumb. The Fraudbama liedministration passed a law that made my xbox instructions have like... a gazillion fucking languages cause Barry O'bowdown, the im-POTUS, hates white people. Nothing to do with any reality-based logistical printing decisions.

So you can thank Hussein Hopenchange OChavez for that one. IMMIGRANTS PUSHING THEIR WAY OF LIFE ON MY XBOX

EDIT: every good american should bkmrk this site: http://brainshavings.com/obama-nicknames/Barack Oralbama

That's pretty good, but could we make it even better...

Barack Oralsex

YES WE CAN

[Showal]

Hussein Hopenchange OChavez is brilliant

[Androidpk]

Hussein Hopenchange OChavez is brilliant

You forgot his first name, Bengayzi.

[Tenlaar]

That's good that you think after taking classes and moving to a country would work for you, but would moving to another country with no classes work for you? It'd probably be pretty fucking hard.

It sure would. But here's the thing. I would make whatever preparations I could and then I would learn the fucking language. These are generally people who decide they want to come to america, make arrangements to come to america, and then come to america. If you moved to another country where another language was spoken, would you be able to speak that language after a year or two? Not a general you, you specifically. Showal, would you learn the language?

[Showal]

It sure would. But here's the thing. I would make whatever preparations I could and then I would learn the fucking language. These are generally people who decide they want to come to america, make arrangements to come to america, and then come to america. If you moved to another country where another language was spoken, would you be able to speak that language after a year or two? Not a general you, you specifically. Showal, would you learn the language?

luckily, I don't live in a country where I need to leave because of my situation. If I were moving to another country and had time to prepare appropriately and the resources, I, showal, would attempt to learn the language. However, if the language did not share a common foundation with English, such as Cantonese or Arabic or Icelandic, I can probably assume I would not gain much mastery over the language in a year or two. I'm pretty decent with Spanish and I can pick things up in French, but I'm also lucky to have 10 years in Spanish and 3 in latin, so romance languages do not sound too foreign to me.

[4a6c1]

It sure would. But here's the thing. I would make whatever preparations I could and then I would learn the fucking language. These are generally people who decide they want to come to america, make arrangements to come to america, and then come to america. If you moved to another country where another language was spoken, would you be able to speak that language after a year or two? Not a general you, you specifically. Showal, would you learn the language?

This is too simplistic I think. Doesn't it depend on the language? It takes like 3 weeks to learn passable conversational Spanish and you can take note of regional variances on a single sheet of paper. English is an extremely technical language and difficult to retain. Personally, I think it's just as complicated as Chinese. Now for something not politically correct at all. Not everyone has the mental capacity to learn a foreign language, much less English, the most fucked up and constantly evolving Germanic language with obscure latin and greek additives and Slavic grammatical rules. It is easier to learn almost any other language, in my opinion. Even Russian. Have you ever wondered why we laugh at the simplistic sentences of foreigners?? ITS BECAUSE OUR NATIVE LANGUAGE IS OVERLY COMPLICATED AND DYSFUNCTIONAL AS FUCK. If you are able to speak proper English congradulations, your IQ is probably at least average or more. Do not expect that of everyone.

[4a6c1]

luckily, I don't live in a country where I need to leave because of my situation. If I were moving to another country and had time to prepare appropriately and the resources, I, showal, would attempt to learn the language. However, if the language did not share a common foundation with English, such as Cantonese or Arabic or Icelandic, I can probably assume I would not gain much mastery over the language in a year or two. I'm pretty decent with Spanish and I can pick things up in French, but I'm also lucky to have 10 years in Spanish and 3 in latin, so romance languages do not sound too foreign to me.

Cantonese has six tones. It terrifies me. :(

[Showal]

I will really admit that I would not assimilate readily to a lot of countries or cultures and if a substantial community of Americans lived in the country I moved to and I could do all of my activities, such as shopping in American owned stores with English speaking owners and spend my leisure time with Americans, I would probably do a lot of that. Especially if people in that country looked down on me for not having great control of that language and did not remain patient with me and made it clear they didn't think I was making enough of an effort and wanted me to leave the country. I probably would work to send money home to my family for as long as I had to until I could move back home.

[Showal]

In before anyone says the stupid "if they don't like the way they're treated here or trying to learn the language, they can leave"

[Gelston]

In before anyone says the stupid "if they don't like the way they're treated here or trying to learn the language, they can leave"

They should all move to France!

[Showal]

This is too simplistic I think. Doesn't it depend on the language? It takes like 3 weeks to learn passable conversational Spanish and you can take note of regional variances on a single sheet of paper. English is an extremely technical language and difficult to retain. Personally, I think it's just as complicated as Chinese. Now for something not politically correct at all. Not everyone has the mental capacity to learn a foreign language, much less English, the most fucked up and constantly evolving Germanic language with obscure latin and greek additives and Slavic grammatical rules. It is easier to learn almost any other language, in my opinion. Even Russian. Have you ever wondered why we laugh at the simplistic sentences of foreigners?? ITS BECAUSE OUR NATIVE LANGUAGE IS OVERLY COMPLICATED AND DYSFUNCTIONAL AS FUCK. If you are able to speak proper English congradulations, your IQ is probably at least average or more. Do not expect that of everyone.

Not only is it overly simplistic, it assumes that everyone comes from a country like America where foreign language classes are relatively easy to find and most of us could probably afford and our daily lives afford us the time to dedicate to learning a language.

I'm sure most people who come to America make the same basic assumption we all do. "I'll pick it up along the way" and then realize, in practice, that's incredibly difficult as an adult.

[Gelston]

As has usually been the case with mass immigration to the US from non English speaking countries throughout our history, the first generation generally has no, or poor, ability to speak English, but their children learn in.

[Showal]

I'm always amused when I visit a Spanish speaking country and I explain to people that I speak bad Spanish and to correct me when I sound stupid. The amount of times I have been made fun of and laughed at are amazing, but people are generally patient with me because I laugh at myself and I try. For some reason, a lot of Americans find it offensive when someone can't speak English and they speak really loud and slow and use words as if the other person is a retarded child. Just this past weekend one of my friends intervened at the airport when the person behind the counter started yelling at a foreigner for not knowing English well enough to answer questions about tickets and passports and baggage weights. I saw a lady yell at a girl at baskin Robbins because when she asked if the girl had walnuts and the girl heard and understood "nuts" and asked "do you mean almonds?". When the lady said, "walnuts!" Again and the girl replied "almonds?" The lady stormed out. That sort of question really warranted "forget it!! I don't fucking want anything! Are you fucking retarded?" That sort of behavior is kind of a barrier to learning and wanting to learn a new language in a society you don't feel welcome in.

[Gelston]

I'm always amused when I visit a Spanish speaking country and I explain to people that I speak bad Spanish and to correct me when I sound stupid. The amount of times I have been made fun of and laughed at are amazing, but people are generally patient with me because I laugh at myself and I try. For some reason, a lot of Americans find it offensive when someone can't speak English and they speak really loud and slow and use words as if the other person is a retarded child.

Because we are America and better than everyone else. Fucking barbarians need to learn our tongue.

[msconstrew]

This is because Americans are arrogant assholes who believe the entire world should conform to their expectations.

I have had the same experience in both Spanish- and French-speaking countries (and my French accent is atrocious). The native speakers are just appreciative that I am attempting to speak their language.

[Gelston]

To be fair, the British were the same way. I imagine before them the Spanish were, and before them the Romans.

[Showal]

To be fair, the British were the same way. I imagine before them the Spanish were, and before them the Romans.

The Spanish probably found it easier to control central and south American natives because they shared a common language, by chance.

[Gelston]

The Spanish probably found it easier to control central and south American natives because they shared a common language, by chance.

Yeah. It was great that they got there and found everyone already Catholic and Spanish speaking. Because you know, the Pope made it so.

[Showal]

Yeah. It was great that they got there and found everyone already Catholic and Spanish speaking. Because you know, the Pope made it so.

How convenient! What power!

[Tgo01]

Since we're sharing personal stories about people not understanding their language let me go back to my previous job and just mention that a few times I had people get angry and start yelling at me because I didn't speak Spanish.

The number of Americans who get angry at others for not speaking English is probably on par with the number of people who think it's only Americans who get frustrated with others for not speaking their language.

[Showal]

Since we're sharing personal stories about people not understanding their language let me go back to my previous job and just mention that a few times I had people get angry and start yelling at me because I didn't speak Spanish.

The number of Americans who get angry at others for not speaking English is probably on par with the number of people who think it's only Americans who get frustrated with others for not speaking their language.

It's certainly not just Americans, it is assholes everywhere.

Tgo01, if you're in a situation where people want you to speak their language, you're obligated to learn it within two years. Why didn't you prepare for this situation? If you didn't like it or didn't want to learn it, you could have moved.

[Ryvicke]

I always got the idea in my travels that other cultures loved when I had a shitty grasp on their language cause they'd just smile and take advantage of me. Then I get mad and yell at them in merican so they knew I wasn't dumb.

Or I just smiled back and blindly overpaid for cabs for a couple days.

[Latrinsorm]

To be fair, the British were the same way. I imagine before them the Spanish were, and before them the Romans.The Roman Empire famously used Greek as its lingua franca, hence the Gospels written in Greek but not Latin. English didn't replace French as the European lingua franca until after the wars, yet another way the lazy Brits waited around for us to clean up their mess.

The Cajuns (and the South in general) are an interesting counterpoint to the idea of a national American language. I had an easier time understanding a certain Indian Indian from India than a certain (non-Cajun) Louisianian in college.

[Gelston]

The Roman Empire famously used Greek as its lingua franca, hence the Gospels written in Greek but not Latin. English didn't replace French as the European lingua franca until after the wars, yet another way the lazy Brits waited around for us to clean up their mess.

The Cajuns (and the South in general) are an interesting counterpoint to the idea of a national American language. I had an easier time understanding a certain Indian Indian from India than a certain (non-Cajun) Louisianian in college.

Greek was a second language. They used Latin as their official language. When the Western Empire fell the East became more and more Hellenized, until around the 600s Greek replaced Latin as the official language. The point about English being slower adopted is because England was conquered by french speaking people. A lot of the early rulers after William the Bastard didn't know a lick of English, though they were Kings of England.

Also, fuck you. I'm a non-Cajun Louisianian in college.

[Latrinsorm]

high-speed gibberish vaguely resembling EnglishLook, I told you I don't habla your lengua. Capisce?
Greek was a second language. They used Latin as their official language. When the Western Empire fell the East became more and more Hellenized, until around the 600s Greek replaced Latin as the official language. The point about English being slower adopted is because England was conquered by french speaking people. A lot of the early rulers after William the Bastard didn't know a lick of English, though they were Kings of England.The point isn't the official language, but to what extent that placed a demand on the subjects/citizens. Clearly not much in the Roman Empire, therefore our Emperor and God King should follow the same protocol.

[Gelston]

The point isn't the official language, but to what extent that placed a demand on the subjects/citizens. Clearly not much in the Roman Empire, therefore our Emperor and God King should follow the same protocol.

It was a required to know language, especially for the west and Northern Africa. The Legions used it and so did all the provincial officials through out the empire. If you were a Roman *citizen* you spoke and understood Latin. Not everyone living in Rome was a citizen. This all did slowly change over time though.

It is important to note the two distinctions, though. The Roman Empire was Latin. The Eastern Roman Empire became Greek, and modern scholars refer to them after that point the Byzantine Empire.

[Showal]

Look, I told you I don't habla your lengua. Capisce?The point isn't the official language, but to what extent that placed a demand on the subjects/citizens. Clearly not much in the Roman Empire, therefore our Emperor and God King should follow the same protocol.

You mean Brokeback Insane O’Bummer?

[Methais]

This is too simplistic I think. Doesn't it depend on the language? It takes like 3 weeks to learn passable conversational Spanish and you can take note of regional variances on a single sheet of paper. English is an extremely technical language and difficult to retain. Personally, I think it's just as complicated as Chinese. Now for something not politically correct at all. Not everyone has the mental capacity to learn a foreign language, much less English, the most fucked up and constantly evolving Germanic language with obscure latin and greek additives and Slavic grammatical rules. It is easier to learn almost any other language, in my opinion. Even Russian. Have you ever wondered why we laugh at the simplistic sentences of foreigners?? ITS BECAUSE OUR NATIVE LANGUAGE IS OVERLY COMPLICATED AND DYSFUNCTIONAL AS FUCK. If you are able to speak proper English congradulations, your IQ is probably at least average or more. Do not expect that of everyone.

According to people in this thread, it takes years to learn Spanish, and even the you'll be lucky to be able to hold a conversation.


congradulations


This is because Americans are arrogant assholes who believe the entire world should conform to their expectations.

As long as we're paying for (most of) the world, why not?
.

[Methais]

It's certainly not just Americans, it is assholes everywhere.

Tgo01, if you're in a situation where people want you to speak their language, you're obligated to learn it within two years. Why didn't you prepare for this situation? If you didn't like it or didn't want to learn it, you could have moved.

So you honestly believe that it's an unreasonable expectation that someone who moves to this country permanently should be making even a minimal amount of effort to learn English by their second year?

Please explain how you think things should be instead. What do you think things would be like if nobody that moved here from any non-English speaking country bothered to learn English?

[Nieninque]

When I move out of the U.K you can guarentee I will adapt to the country I move to, not the other way around.

/end rant

Didn't you get deported from the States?

[Showal]

So you honestly believe that it's an unreasonable expectation that someone who moves to this country permanently should be making even a minimal amount of effort to learn English by their second year?

Please explain how you think things should be instead. What do you think things would be like if nobody that moved here from any non-English speaking country bothered to learn English?

I think the issue is I apparently misunderstood your statement of having 2 years to learn English as meaning fluent in English, not having made a minimal effort by the their second year.

What do I think things would be like? I think they'd kind of be like they are now. People who can't speak English would be confined more or less to their respective communities where they can actually effectively interact with others. If their populations became marketable, you'd see companies start to market to them.

What exactly is your fear? Are you worried that you'll have to talk to a few people who stare back at you like those people in that picture and get annoyed? Do you feel like you're more and more frequently unable to find out information or access vital services because the people you interact with are becoming more and more reliant on communicating in Spanish or other language? Do you really think one day, you'll be looked over at a job interview or for a promotion because someone else only speaks another language? At the root of it, I don't really understand what your issue is here. It sounds like you're just annoyed that people can't understand you.

Other than the issue of seeing things written in foreign languages and the annoyance of the occasional person who doesn't understand English, what is your problem with people not speaking English? If you're legitimately worried because non-English speakers are limited in their access to vital services and interactions because of their language deficit, that's one thing. But it really seems like your issue is that you simply find it annoying to see/hear other languages and find it disrespectful that other people don't manage to learn English while living in a nation that prides itself on being a nation of immigrants. Let's petition to remove "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore, send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" from the Statue of Liberty and replace it with "Give me those who have learned English or will within 2 years. Your language and culture is just straight up annoying. kthx gbai".

[Bobmuhthol]

Tonight, we are all Gay Christians.

[Showal]

I think it is important to recognize that learning English is in the immigrant's best interest but their failure to do so has pretty much minimal to no impact on my life. I have never had access to health care or services limited because the only way to get it is through a group of immigrants who can't even understand basic English and I don't see this ever becoming an issue in my life or my kid's life. Maybe some aspect of your community is significantly different than mine, such as the law enforcement only is able to communicate to you in Spanish. Then I am wrong and not having a required national language really negatively affects your life.

[Warriorbird]

Didn't you get deported from the States?

Britowned.

[Methais]

I very specifically stated after your first response that I wasn't talking about being fluent, only putting forth even a minimal effort to learn it.

My issue is that America is supposed to a melting pot, and learning the language is part of that "melting" process.

If America is supposed to be a melting pot, then people need to melt into it, which includes making at least some effort to learn the language, instead of being a block of cheese just sitting there refusing to melt amongst a plethora of tasty melted ingredients.

What makes them so special that they should be above learning the language of the country they move to? And don't feed me that "We don't have an official language" bullshit. We don't need a piece of paper with a government signature that says "English is our language" to know that English is this country's language. That's just a weak, spineless, emotionally driven ignorant bleeding heart copout. Our Declaration, Constitution, and everything else "official" is in English. Maybe the founding fathers just assumed people wouldn't be this stupid that some people would need even more, like an extra paragraph that says "btw our official language is English."

Go to any country in the world and ask them what language America speaks. What do you think their answer will be?

[Showal]

Their answer will be English. So you think that it is them thinking they're above everyone and don't need to learn English. How does that obviously mistaken belief of theirs negatively impact your life?

[Allereli]

How does that obviously mistaken belief of theirs negatively impact your life?

he can't find the English instructions in his electronics!!!!!!!!!!!!! OOOOOOOOO MMMMMMMM GGGGGGGGGGG

[Methais]

Their answer will be English. So you think that it is them thinking they're above everyone and don't need to learn English. How does that obviously mistaken belief of theirs negatively impact your life?

How does it positively affect the country as a whole? How do you think it will affect things 20, 50, even 100 years by now, assuming everyone isn't fitted with some automatic translator C-3PO device into their brains yet?

[Methais]

he can't find the English instructions in his electronics!!!!!!!!!!!!! OOOOOOOOO MMMMMMMM GGGGGGGGGGG

Way to show off how short-sighted you are. I'm quite sure that if everyone came here from other countries and spoke only their native language, that it wouldn't cause any problems at all, right?

Try applying the concept to all foreign languages instead of just Spanish, instead of OMG METHAIS HATES MEXICANS AND ANYONE THAT SPEAKS SPANISH!!!!!!4

[Showal]

How does it positively affect the country as a whole? How do you think it will affect things 20, 50, even 100 years by now, assuming everyone isn't fitted with some automatic translator C-3PO device into their brains yet?

I think immigrants are a positive aspect of American culture. The "melting pot" way of thinking has been pretty inaccurate way of referring to American society for a while. But influx of other cultures and ways of thinking has historically added to American ingenuity, not detracted. As has been explained in other posts, generally first generation immigrants have poor mastery of English and the future generations are better. I think this benefits outweighs the trouble of flipping through a few pages of a manual to get to English instructions. So, in the long term, I see a net positive for society and, other than your annoyance, you've been avoiding pinpointing the negatives.

[Tgo01]

Them evil Canadians require people to know English or French before becoming a citizen. I thought Democrats wanted us to be more like Canada?

[Showal]

Them evil Canadians require people to know English or French before becoming a citizen. I thought Democrats wanted us to be more like Canada?

Good argument against requiring it. Socialists require it.

[Ryvicke]

How does it positively affect the country as a whole? How do you think it will affect things 20, 50, even 100 years by now, assuming everyone isn't fitted with some automatic translator C-3PO device into their brains yet?

You do realize that throughout American history people said the same shit about Irish people, Italian people, German people and every other people that started coming to the US. There will always be immigration and there will always be people sounding the alarm that those immigrants are going to fundamentally change the country.

So far the immigrants have taken almost 350 years and have managed forced drunkenness every March 17th (pushing their culture literally down our throats), but they're definitely planning some other shit soon. I'm guessing the country will be an oktoberfest cinco de mayo hellscape in about 475 more years.

That's only if Barack SoVaine O'Melonpatch isn't impeached SOON.

[Methais]

You should know by now that any "holiday" centered around drinking is just an excuse to drink. Cinco de Mayo isn't even a real holiday in Mexico.

Not that I have any problem with this concept though.

[Ryvicke]

As has been explained in other posts, generally first generation immigrants have poor mastery of English and the future generations are better. I think this benefits outweighs the trouble of flipping through a few pages of a manual to get to English instructions.

Yeah this, I'm German, at one point my ancestors only spoke German but I do not know German. I have about a jizzillion friends/co-workers whose parents speak Spanish or Russian but they don't know how to speak Spanish or Russian and it took exactly one generation. They all wish that they did speak those languages though because, weirdly, where I'm from, speaking other languages is cool.

Methais, where are your ancestors from? Why don't you speak that language instead of English? All immigrants don't ever learn English and it ruins the country.

[Ryvicke]

You should know by now that any "holiday" centered around drinking is just an excuse to drink. Cinco de Mayo isn't even a real holiday in Mexico.

Not that I have any problem with this concept though.

I'm pretty sure if you built a time machine and told a huge section of non-Irish Americans living from 1730-1840 that they were all going to be happily celebrating an Irish holiday in a few hundred years they'd kill a few Irish babies right there to make sure it didn't happen. See, people like you didn't used to like Irish people here, and they were white and sort of talked like us!

[Warriorbird]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Citizen_Know_Nothing.jpg/452px-Citizen_Know_Nothing.jpg

[diethx]

Every time I have to search a label, manual, etc. for the part that's written in English because shit is plastered in Spanish everywhere because these assholes come here and refuse to learn our language is a pretty widespread example.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/131/399/fry.PNG?1307468855

[Methais]

Yeah this, I'm German, at one point my ancestors only spoke German but I do not know German. I have about a jizzillion friends/co-workers whose parents speak Spanish or Russian but they don't know how to speak Spanish or Russian and it took exactly one generation. They all wish that they did speak those languages though because, weirdly, where I'm from, speaking other languages is cool.

Methais, where are your ancestors from? Why don't you speak that language instead of English? All immigrants don't ever learn English and it ruins the country.

My great grandparents on both sides came here from Italy. They learned English, though I don't know how well.

My grandparents spoke both English and Italian. My parents don't speak Italian as far as I know, and neither do I.

I don't speak Italian because I live in America, which is an English speaking country. It would be cool to learn Italian, but unless I decided to move to Italy, it would be little more than a novelty and might impress a few non-American Idol watching ladies, and confuse the waitress at Olive Garden. And maybe sound intimidating to someone who just finished a Sopranos marathon or something.

Does that sufficiently address your concerns?

[Showal]

My great grandparents on both sides came here from Italy. They learned English, though I don't know how well.

My grandparents spoke both English and Italian. My parents don't speak Italian as far as I know, and neither do I.

I don't speak Italian because I live in America, which is an English speaking country. It would be cool to learn Italian, but unless I decided to move to Italy, it would be little more than a novelty and might impress a few non-American Idol watching ladies, and confuse the waitress at Olive Garden. And maybe sound intimidating to someone who just finished a Sopranos marathon or something.

Does that sufficiently address your concerns?

I can only imagine how many people your great grandparents seriously inconvenienced when learning English. Probably explains the state this country is in now.

[Ryvicke]

My great grandparents on both sides came here from Italy. They learned English, though I don't know how well.

My grandparents spoke both English and Italian. My parents don't speak Italian as far as I know, and neither do I.

I don't speak Italian because I live in America, which is an English speaking country. It would be cool to learn Italian, but unless I decided to move to Italy, it would be little more than a novelty and might impress a few non-American Idol watching ladies, and confuse the waitress at Olive Garden. And maybe sound intimidating to someone who just finished a Sopranos marathon or something.

Does that sufficiently address your concerns?

Cool, so you know there were people like you that hated your great grandparents for not speaking English properly and spoke at length about how your great-grandparents were ruining their country. It's kind of funny that it only took three generations for you to forget all about that and become those assholes.

[Warriorbird]

I can only imagine how many people your great grandparents seriously inconvenienced when learning English. Probably explains the state this country is in now.

THOUSANDS.

[Showal]

Cool, so you know there were people like you that hated your great grandparents for not speaking English properly and spoke at length about how your great-grandparents were ruining their country. It's kind of funny that it only took three generations for you to forget all about that and become those assholes.

Whoa. The difference is his ancestors weren't spic faggots.

[Showal]

Also, aren't manuals printed in other languages in part because producing one manual that's all inclusive allows less complicated sales to markets outside of the United states? Even requiring perfect English from all inside our borders, citizens or not, wouldn't prevent this horrible injustice.

[Atlanteax]

Cool, so you know there were people like you that hated your great grandparents for not speaking English properly and spoke at length about how your great-grandparents were ruining their country. It's kind of funny that it only took three generations for you to forget all about that and become those assholes.

Your error is that today, the ire is at people who *refuses to speak English* and not at those who struggle to speak it properly. His great grandparents were making an effort to assimilate. That is the key difference.

[Ryvicke]

Your error is that today, the ire is at people who *refuses to speak English* and not at those who struggle to speak it properly. His great grandparents were making an effort to assimilate. That is the key difference.

I'm sure every Atlanteax had a long intimate conversation with his grandparents to find out if they were learning English before calling them wop dago queerducks on online forums.

[Showal]

Your error is that today, the ire is at people who *refuses to speak English* and not at those who struggle to speak it properly. His great grandparents were making an effort to assimilate. That is the key difference.

Right. And some people at the time most likely interpreted their poor English and different way of living as not trying to assimilate.

I am going to take a huge risk here and claim that the v vast majority of immigrants want to have better English and fit in to American culture. I doubt the amount who come here and have absolutely no interest in learning English or assimilating to some degree even come close to the majority.

[Tisket]

And just to clarify, im not homophobic

Sure.

And Bigfoot is behind alien abductions. Truth.

[Allereli]

Every time I have to search a label, manual, etc. for the part that's written in English because shit is plastered in Spanish everywhere because these assholes come here and refuse to learn our language is a pretty widespread example. .

I was referring to this post about the manual joke

[msconstrew]

I'm sure every Atlanteax had a long intimate conversation with his grandparents to find out if they were learning English before calling them wop dago queerducks on online forums.

What if they were pollocks? Stop being so racist and assuming they're eye-talian.

[Showal]

Sure.

And Bigfoot is behind alien abductions. Truth.

Already covered. He meant that straight people are miserable in marriage so he is shocked that gays even want to be married

[Tisket]

Manuals include multiple languages because most manufacturers ship internationally. Jesus.

[Tisket]

Already covered. He meant that straight people are miserable in marriage so he is shocked that gays even want to be married

Haven't read beyond the first or second page.

[Showal]

Haven't read beyond the first or second page.

That hasn't been incredibly easy to pick up, Chrissy.

That's not what he meant, but that's what methais thought he meant.

[Allereli]

Way to show off how short-sighted you are. I'm quite sure that if everyone came here from other countries and spoke only their native language, that it wouldn't cause any problems at all, right?

Try applying the concept to all foreign languages instead of just Spanish, instead of OMG METHAIS HATES MEXICANS AND ANYONE THAT SPEAKS SPANISH!!!!!!4

do you think I'm going to bother with a serious post in this ridiculous thread?

[Tisket]

That hasn't been incredibly easy to pick up, Chrissy.

That's not what he meant, but that's what methais thought he meant.

I don't know what you are talking about but I won't let that stop me from calling you a namist.

[Tgo01]

Manuals include multiple languages because most manufacturers ship internationally. Jesus.

One more reason to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US! USA! USA! USA!

[Ryvicke]

do you think I'm going to bother with a serious post in this ridiculous thread?

Typical llama-equality libtard response. Won't even partake in a measured conversation exploring the ways that fucking immigrants hate our way of life.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/comotellama_zpsc9a9ed78.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/nobody_boy/media/comotellama_zpsc9a9ed78.jpg.html)

[Tisket]

One more reason to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US! USA! USA! USA!

Yeah, sometimes it's not all about us (or US in this case).

[Methais]

Cool, so you know there were people like you that hated your great grandparents for not speaking English properly and spoke at length about how your great-grandparents were ruining their country. It's kind of funny that it only took three generations for you to forget all about that and become those assholes.

What part of "my great grandparents came here and learned English" did you not catch?

[Showal]

do you think I'm going to bother with a serious post in this ridiculous thread?

The best way to respond to direct questioning is to not answer and deflect with another question. For example, if someone asks how something negatively affects you and says it probably doesn't affect you, respond with asking how it's good. Methais taking a page out of Backs playbook today.

[Allereli]

Typical llama-equality libtard response. Won't even partake in a measured conversation exploring the ways that fucking immigrants hate our way of life.

lol wut? measured? what a joke

[Showal]

What part of "my great grandparents came here and learned English" did you not catch?

The transition part that included the interactions with English speaking Americans while they learned English. Or maybe you actually believe they very quickly gained absolute mastery of English, a task very very rarely achieved from a non native speaker. And their TOEFL scores after two years of entering the country.

[Ryvicke]

What part of "my great grandparents came here and learned English" did you not catch?

I caught that they didn't know English when they came here and I got annoyed even thinking about anyone that had to see or listen to them until they were fluent. It makes me sick thinking about how they walked around America and said to each other, "we could make childrens here and have lives of goodness for them," and then they anchor-babied the shit out of my great country and changed it for the worse.

[Tgo01]

Yeah, sometimes it's not all about us (or US in this case).

Since when?!?!?

[msconstrew]

You know who I really feel sorry for? Those people whose ancestors came over here on the Mayflower. I mean, first, those fucking Native Americans - I mean, Indians - didn't speak the proper language. And then, second, they had to deal with all those other fucking immigrants who didn't speak English. I mean, if you can't learn the language before you get on the boat, you're clearly not interested in assimilating.

[Tisket]

Since when?!?!?

Since 11:07 am this morning. Mark it in your calendar as an historic occasion.

[Showal]

I'd be interested in seeing the amount of patience Methais of today would have if he unknowingly met his great grandparents two months after arriving in the US. Would he take the time to learn their story and respect their short term attempts to learn English and integrate into American society or would he just assume they were not even making the minimal effort, avoid them, and be annoyed they were even in this country?

[Tisket]

You know who I really feel sorry for? Those people whose ancestors came over here on the Mayflower. I mean, first, those fucking Native Americans - I mean, Indians - didn't speak the proper language. And then, second, they had to deal with all those other fucking immigrants who didn't speak English. I mean, if you can't learn the language before you get on the boat, you're clearly not interested in assimilating.

And there it is. I was wondering how long it would take.

[Ryvicke]

lol wut? measured? what a joke

This is no joke missy. This is documentary footage of inner-city Brooklyn schools right now from an inner-city Brooklyn schools webcam:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/13623803879058_zpscafb0dfc.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/nobody_boy/media/13623803879058_zpscafb0dfc.jpg.html)

[msconstrew]

And there it is. I was wondering how long it would take.

I'm not sure if I lived up, or down, to your expectations. But I'm glad I met some expectation.

[Tisket]

I'm not sure if I lived up, or down, to your expectations. But I'm glad I met some expectation.

Just surprised it took that long for that particular argument/comment to appear.

[Showal]

I caught that they didn't know English when they came here and I got annoyed even thinking about anyone that had to see or listen to them until they were fluent. It makes me sick thinking about how they walked around America and said to each other, "we could make childrens here and have lives of goodness for them," and then they anchor-babied the shit out of my great country and changed it for the worse.

fucking pricks are pissing me off 100 years later.

[msconstrew]

Just surprised it took that long for that particular argument/comment to appear.

Just to make sure, you know it was made tongue-in-cheek, right?

[Methais]

What if they were pollocks? Stop being so racist and assuming they're eye-talian.

What race is Polish? And is everyone else of that race also a pollack?


The transition part that included the interactions with English speaking Americans while they learned English. Or maybe you actually believe they very quickly gained absolute mastery of English, a task very very rarely achieved from a non native speaker. And their TOEFL scores after two years of entering the country.

Again, I never stated anywhere in this thread about expecting immigrants to achieve a mastery of the English language at any point in their lives, or even being fluent. If you want to keep arguing this point, feel free, but you're not actually making a counter point to anything.

Making even a minimal effort to learn the language to some degree != mastery of the language. I'm sorry that your brain is unable to process this simple to understand concept.


I caught that they didn't know English when they came here and I got annoyed even thinking about anyone that had to see or listen to them until they were fluent. It makes me sick thinking about how they walked around America and said to each other, "we could make childrens here and have lives of goodness for them," and then they anchor-babied the shit out of my great country and changed it for the worse.

Honestly, I don't know if they learned it before or after they came here, and they're too dead to ask now. I would guess that they knew at least a few words before getting on the boat, but again, they're too dead to ask and find out.

The point is they were willing to learn the language of the country that they were moving to, as opposed to coming here, refusing to do so, and expect the country to assimilate to them.

Why is this so hard for you people to comprehend?

And by you people, I mean you people.


You know who I really feel sorry for? Those people whose ancestors came over here on the Mayflower. I mean, first, those fucking Native Americans - I mean, Indians - didn't speak the proper language. And then, second, they had to deal with all those other fucking immigrants who didn't speak English. I mean, if you can't learn the language before you get on the boat, you're clearly not interested in assimilating.

Right, because earlier in the thread when I said I think 2 years is a reasonable amount of time to expect an immigrant to at least be putting forth some amount of effort to learn the language totally means they should be fluent in the language before even getting on the boat.


I'd be interested in seeing the amount of patience Methais of today would have if he unknowingly met his great grandparents two months after arriving in the US. Would he take the time to learn their story and respect their short term attempts to learn English and integrate into American society or would he just assume they were not even making the minimal effort, avoid them, and be annoyed they were even in this country?

How can I learn their story if they can't communicate it to me?

[Ryvicke]

fucking pricks are pissing me off 100 years later.

Next time I have to search in label forever to find a tool or part cause fucking spanish everywhere, I know who to blame and its Methais great-grandparents.

[Tisket]

Just to make sure, you know it was made tongue-in-cheek, right?

Clearly.

[Ryvicke]

How can I learn their story if they can't communicate it to me?

Your great-grandparents' story is the story of immigration to America. The same story that you post your shithead little thoughts about in this and every other immigration thread on this board.

You can pretty easily learn the story of your grandparents from the immigrants that are in this country now, their motivations are the same.

[Methais]

Your great-grandparents' story is the story of immigration to America.

And part of that story involves learning English, even if just to minimal degree.


The same story that you post your shithead little thoughts about in this and every other immigration thread on this board.

Awwww...


You can pretty easily learn the story of your grandparents from the immigrants that are in this country now, their motivations are the same.

Motivations may be the same, but the way they carry out their plan isn't necessarily the same. This is all despite the fact that your claim of people all immigrating here for the same reason isn't true to begin with. What's the motivation of today's immigrants, especially when the government is advertising food stamps and other handouts in Mexico? Some people come here to work. Others, at least in recent years, come for the free handouts, and others come here because their cousin Roman falsely promised them women and riches and instead told him to drive his cab around the city. Those are all different motivations.

According to your logic, a bank robber's and a business owner's motivations to get rich are the same. Therefore I should talk to a bank robber to see what life is like as a business owner.

[Tgo01]

This thread reminds me of a story. Two Englishmen are sitting by the side of a road when a man drives up and politely asks them "Parlez Vous Francais?"

The two men just stare at him.

The man in the car smiles and asks "habla espanol?" Again he receives blank stares from the men.

Growing slightly agitated he asks "Sie sprechen Deutsch?" The men look at one another and shrug.

Clearly annoyed by now the man raises his voice and asks "parli italiano?" The men look at him as if he's an alien.

Disgusted the man turns away and speeds off.

One Englishman turns to the other and says "think we should learn another language?" The other man stares in the direction of the speeding car and relpies "why bother? That man spoke four languages and look what it did for him."

[Methais]

This thread reminds me of a story. Two Englishmen are sitting by the side of a road when a man drives up and politely asks them "Parlez Vous Francais?"

The two men just stare at him.

The man in the car smiles and asks "habla espanol?" Again he receives blank stares from the men.

Growing slightly agitated he asks "Sie sprechen Deutsch?" The men look at one another and shrug.

Clearly annoyed by now the man raises his voice and asks "parli italiano?" The men look at him as if he's an alien.

Disgusted the man turns away and speeds off.

One Englishman turns to the other and says "think we should learn another language?" The other man stares in the direction of the speeding car and relpies "why bother? That man spoke four languages and look what it did for him."

Not everyone can be 1/3 Marcus Brody.

[diethx]

Methais, you need more funny sigs so we can be entertained by something when you post.


queerducks

I plan to use this, and use it often.

[Showal]

So are we assuming they made minimal attempts and successfully integrated into society? Or can we assume they did what the majority of immigrants did? The second assumption means they learned basic and very broken English but largely kept to themselves and their foreign community but their kids were much more successful at assimilating. My simple brain can't differentiate that minimal effort is still not easy to communicate with. I think my thoughts are getting so clouded because your great grandparents are fucking obnoxious shitheads and I really wish they didn't come here in the first place to interfere with my way of life. When they said "meesta, I dont a speaka the English so a good" to Gibreficul's true American ancestors, I know this pissed everyone off. Go home and know when you're not welcome. Seriously. Where do these fags get off? Do they think they're better than me walking around communicating like a bunch of FOB tight pants wearing homosexuals? We need to build a fence around Italy and keep these fucking lazy wops from breeding in my country.

[Ryvicke]

Motivations may be the same, but the way they carry out their plan isn't necessarily the same. This is all despite the fact that your claim of people all immigrating here for the same reason isn't true to begin with. What's the motivation of today's immigrants, especially when the government is advertising food stamps and other handouts in Mexico? Some people come here to work. Others, at least in recent years, come for the free handouts, and others come here because their cousin Roman falsely promised them women and riches and instead told him to drive his cab around the city. Those are all different motivations.

I heard they all come here because there are no cats in America and the streets are lined with cheese.

[Showal]

Have you ever met an Italian, like one actually from Italy? I hate them. They came here to produce kids to be on the Jersey shore. No thanks. Detained at Ellis Island. Throw them in the ocean. Turn them around.

[Methais]

So are we assuming they made minimal attempts and successfully integrated into society? Or can we assume they did what the majority of immigrants did? The second assumption means they learned basic and very broken English but largely kept to themselves and their foreign community but their kids were much more successful at assimilating. My simple brain can't differentiate that minimal effort is still not easy to communicate with. I think my thoughts are getting so clouded because your great grandparents are fucking obnoxious shitheads and I really wish they didn't come here in the first place to interfere with my way of life. When they said "meesta, I dont a speaka the English so a good" to Gibreficul's true American ancestors, I know this pissed everyone off. Go home and know when you're not welcome. Seriously. Where do these fags get off? Do they think they're better than me walking around communicating like a bunch of FOB tight pants wearing homosexuals? We need to build a fence around Italy and keep these fucking lazy wops from breeding in my country.

I don't have a problem with the immigrant in either of your scenarios, nor do I have a problem with an immigrant speaking broken English. But please point out where I implied otherwise to either.

The Vietnamese people next door speak English, but are hard as fuck to understand. I often have to ask him to repeat himself several times. Big deal. That doesn't bother me, despite how much it it bothers you that it doesn't bother me because it doesn't fit the narrative you're trying to apply to me. The Mexicans that live next to them aren't as bad, but for the most part they just blast fiesta music from their truck and drink Bud Light on the porch.


Methais, you need more funny sigs so we can be entertained by something when you post.

Just as soon as you start posting something that's entertaining at all.

[Methais]

I heard they all come here because there are no cats in America and the streets are lined with cheese.

Is that not true?

[Showal]

Every time I have to search a label, manual, etc. for the part that's written in English because shit is plastered in Spanish everywhere because these assholes come here and refuse to learn our language is a pretty widespread example. I could probably go dig up some articles about some bullshit with Mexican flags in schools and then them raising hell over American flags, like that Live Oak Cinco de Mayo shit from a few years ago, but having to read everything in Spanish all over the place in an English speaking country should suffice for now.

Feel free to explain to me how them refusing to learn English falls under the category of melting-into-the-melting-pot though.

Now you can stop being a faggot. Start being a homosexual male like NPH instead.


Being able to form something even halfway understandable instead of just staring at you like this:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3056/2822952455_bbb1fb51f6_z.jpg?zz=1

Take the most broken form of Engrish, apply it to Spanish, and I would be fine with that.

An Asian family lives next door to me. They're hard to understand, but you can hold a conversation with them. The Mexicans that live next to them are the same way.

Why is that considered too much to ask in an English speaking country?

Sir, thank you for making minimal effort. After two years of making minimal effort, it appears you aren't able to communicate in the most broken of English that would prevent me from having to deal with shit like seeing your language plastered through my manuals. Please go home.

I don't know if this pair of Mexicans are newly arrived or have been here for seven years, but I won't give them the benefit of the doubt when they stare at me and don't understand me.

[Methais]

Sir, thank you for making minimal effort. After two years of making minimal effort, it appears you aren't able to communicate in the most broken of English that would prevent me from having to deal with shit like seeing your language plastered through my manuals. Please go home.

I don't know if this pair of Mexicans are newly arrived or have been here for seven years, but I won't give them the benefit of the doubt when they stare at me and don't understand me.

Way to miss the point again.

The point of the 2 years thing was saying, "If after being here for two years you haven't bothered to even try and learn some English, now would be the time to start because there's no excuse after 2 years." which you seem to insist on translating to, "You have 2 years from the time you step off the boat to become a master at the English language."

That means they even can spend their first two years here doing this:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3056/2822952455_bbb1fb51f6_z.jpg?zz=1

In before "How do you know that every non-English speaking person you encounter hasn't only been here for 1 year and 364 days?"

[Showal]

Actually, you're right. It is just to fit my narrative. If everyone put forth minimal effort, then it would be remarkably easier to communicate, life would be better, and my electronics manuals would be shorter. That sounds like what would happen if people put forth the minimum effort for at least two years. They wouldn't then try to cram their culture down our throats.

[Methais]

Actually, you're right. It is just to fit my narrative. If everyone put forth minimal effort, then it would be remarkably easier to communicate, life would be better, and my electronics manuals would be shorter. That sounds like what would happen if people put forth the minimum effort for at least two years. They wouldn't then try to cram their culture down our throats.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?82161-Gay-Christians&p=1548933#post1548933

[Showal]

Way to miss the point again.

The point of the 2 years thing was saying, "If after being here for two years you haven't bothered to even try and learn some English, now would be the time to start because there's no excuse after 2 years." which you seem to insist on translating to, "You have 2 years from the time you step off the boat to become a master at the English language."

That means they even can spend their first two years here doing this:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3056/2822952455_bbb1fb51f6_z.jpg?zz=1


You haven't even been able to communicate what you'd want as the end result. You are just saying they need to be able to communicate, but don't recognize this doesn't happen for everyone. It's fucking difficult. Why should they learn English? To have mindless arguments online? To play gemstone iv? Just to make you happy? You have deflected every time I have asked what are the negative impacts on you when they don't learn English? Is it any wonder I'm just making fun of you at this point? Your arguments has hinged entirely on it would be respectful to you and you would not have to encounter Spanish writing. I'm going to just harass you and make fun of you until you can give SOME response. Fucking A, methais. You have seen me post here for how many years and you don't know how the game is played? I'd hope you have at least put forth the minimal effort so I don't have to explain this shit to you. Do you know how annoying to me that is?

[Showal]

It appears your model is "just make minimal effort" but that doesn't solve any of your issues. If it is just because this is an English speaking country, the people who live here who don't speak it prove that it is possible not to. How does the issue at current negatively affect you and how would this minimal effort model prevent the concerns you have about people not learning English? How would it benefit you and the population?

[Ryvicke]

Showal posted something about counterstrike yesterday that wasn't true: you cannot "choose sniper" in that game. Each player is given round winnings with which to purchase a weapon. A camp man or immigrant would purchase an awp so they could crouch motionless and snipe and then collect federal SNAP program benefits that they heard about in the American consulate in Mexico City.

Showal has been discredited in this thread.

[Showal]

Showal posted something about counterstrike yesterday that wasn't true: you cannot "choose sniper" in that game. Each player is given round winnings with which to purchase a weapon. A camp man or immigrant would purchase an awp so they could crouch motionless and snipe and then collect federal SNAP program benefits that they heard about in the American consulate in Mexico City.

Showal has been discredited in this thread.

You have sullied my good name!!

[Methais]

You haven't even been able to communicate what you'd want as the end result. You are just saying they need to be able to communicate, but don't recognize this doesn't happen for everyone. It's fucking difficult. Why should they learn English? To have mindless arguments online? To play gemstone iv? Just to make you happy? You have deflected every time I have asked what are the negative impacts on you when they don't learn English? Is it any wonder I'm just making fun of you at this point? Your arguments has hinged entirely on it would be respectful to you and you would not have to encounter Spanish writing. I'm going to just harass you and make fun of you until you can give SOME response. Fucking A, methais. You have seen me post here for how many years and you don't know how the game is played? I'd hope you have at least put forth the minimal effort so I don't have to explain this shit to you. Do you know how annoying to me that is?

Because while America is a nation of immigrants, it was founded as an English speaking country. America is a melting pot, and immigrants are expected to assimilate to American culture, or melt into the pot. They can bring their culture along with it and throw it into the melting pot as well. That's part of what makes immigration a good thing. And on top of all of that, learning to speak English in an English speaking country will make things easier for everyone, including them.

This immigrant explains it better:
http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_22750397/learning-english-can-help-immigrants-survive

And because being cool with immigrants coming here and not speaking English opens the door for stupid bullshit like this:


DENVER (CBS4)- A group of Hispanic custodians at the Auraria Campus in downtown Denver are claiming they are victims of discrimination.

They’ve filed a complaint against the campus operator that could be reviewed by a federal judge.

What started out as a miscommunication over a schedule change for employees working the graveyard shift has become a full investigation by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

“Too many things have happened to me there that I don’t even know how to explain it,” said Auraria custodian Bertha Ribota.

Ribota said she was injured at work because she couldn’t read a warning sign that was in English.

“If I could speak English I wouldn’t have the problems that exist,” said Ribota.

Last week 12 custodians from the Auraria Campus filed an EEOC complaint against the Auraria Higher Education Center, which is the organization that maintains the campus for Metro State University of Denver, the Community College of Denver and the University of Colorado Denver.

“What is sort of a neutral business practice, that they speak English on campus and it’s an English-only campus has a discriminatory impact on this group of workers,” said attorney Tim Markham.

The complaint accused the campus of purposely leaving employees that only speak Spanish in the dark on the terms and conditions of their employment, changes in their working status, safety and more.

When asked if it was a problem those employees were not being informed of those things in their native language, campus spokesman Blaine Nickeson replied, “I don’t know if that’s a problem. I think it’s one of the concerns. I will go on to say there’s not a statute to translate.”

Campus operators said there is no state law requiring complete translations. It is standard at other universities in Colorado.

The Auraria Campus believes employees should understand some basic English.

“It’s not our goal to provide every document translated or every conversation translated. Our employees are expected to interact with members of the public and that interaction we expect them to be able to understand English,” said Nickeson.

The EEOC could take several weeks to review the case. If they find actual damages the Department of Justice would get involved.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/05/09/auraria-campus-hispanic-custodians-claim-discrimination/

TLDR: Some janitor that can't speak English was injured at work because she couldn't read the warning signs due to them being in English, and is now suing her employer for discrimination.

"Accomodate my language in your country or get sued for discrimination!"

Seems legit to me.


If it is just because this is an English speaking country, the people who live here who don't speak it prove that it is possible not to

It's also possible these days to not be a female, but be able to shit and shower with the girls in the girls' locker room. What's your point? Much like an all you can eat buffet, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[Showal]

Because while America is a nation of immigrants, it was founded as an English speaking country. America is a melting pot, and immigrants are expected to assimilate to American culture, or melt into the pot. They can bring their culture along with it and throw it into the melting pot as well. That's part of what makes immigration a good thing. And on top of all of that, learning to speak English in an English speaking country will make things easier for everyone, including them.

This immigrant explains it better:
http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_22750397/learning-english-can-help-immigrants-survive

And because being cool with immigrants coming here and not speaking English opens the door for stupid bullshit like this:



http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/05/09/auraria-campus-hispanic-custodians-claim-discrimination/

TLDR: Some janitor that can't speak English was injured at work because she couldn't read the warning signs due to them being in English, and is now suing her employer for discrimination.

"Accomodate my language in your country or get sued for discrimination!"

Seems legit to me.



It's also possible these days to not be a female, but be able to shit and shower with the girls in the girls' locker room. What's your point? Much like an all you can eat buffet, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Sounds like with minimal effort to learn English, this accident would have been avoided. Under that model, they don't need to become fluent or even good with English, just make a minimal effort. The result of a minimal effort avoids stupid lawsuits in a nation plagued with stupid lawsuits. Sounds like this injury was an issue for the immigrant for not learning English. Imagine if the property pissed everyone off by recognizing they have workers who don't understand the language and made warnings accessible to them too? It's almost like hiring handicap people. If accommodating them puts your business in undue hardship, you don't have to hire them. If you hire people who don't speak English well enough, you accept the risks that come along with not making things accessible to them.

I fail to see how minimal effort of learning English would have prevented this lawsuit. Imagine if the injury occurred in the first two year period where blank stares are permissible?

[Showal]

Way to miss the point again.

The point of the 2 years thing was saying, "If after being here for two years you haven't bothered to even try and learn some English, now would be the time to start because there's no excuse after 2 years." which you seem to insist on translating to, "You have 2 years from the time you step off the boat to become a master at the English language."

That means they even can spend their first two years here doing this:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3056/2822952455_bbb1fb51f6_z.jpg?zz=1

In before "How do you know that every non-English speaking person you encounter hasn't only been here for 1 year and 364 days?"

2 years of blank stares opens up the opportunity for a lot of lawsuits.

[Showal]

The thing I like in that article are these quotes:

"Learning how to speak and write English helps us not only to survive, but to advance as well. I know of talented new citizens whose level of English limits their ability to pursue career opportunities, to be more engaged in their children's education, or to better understand complex U.S. systems such as health care.
And I recognize that is this a problem affecting particularly Latino immigrants. For many reasons, including our own apathy, we have fallen behind.
That is why I try to urge Spanish-speaking Latinos to learn English for their own good."

The failure to learn negatively impacts the immigrant, as I have stated many many times. Also:

"We, as a country, now have the chance to catch up with the rest of the world, where it is common to speak more than one language.
Regardless of the outcome of immigration reform, this is a call to open our minds — all of us — to the fact that bilingualism is here to stay and it will only keep growing."

He recognizes that America is on the path to becoming bilingual and people should accept that we won't only be speaking English here.

Good link, methais. I think his points align with mine nicely and we, as a nation, would be enriched by not allowing ourselves to fall behind by not restricting or forcing one language over another.

[diethx]

Just as soon as you start posting something that's entertaining at all.

Harsh!!!!!

[Methais]

The thing I like in that article are these quotes:

"Learning how to speak and write English helps us not only to survive, but to advance as well. I know of talented new citizens whose level of English limits their ability to pursue career opportunities, to be more engaged in their children's education, or to better understand complex U.S. systems such as health care.
And I recognize that is this a problem affecting particularly Latino immigrants. For many reasons, including our own apathy, we have fallen behind.
That is why I try to urge Spanish-speaking Latinos to learn English for their own good."

The failure to learn negatively impacts the immigrant, as I have stated many many times. Also:

"We, as a country, now have the chance to catch up with the rest of the world, where it is common to speak more than one language.
Regardless of the outcome of immigration reform, this is a call to open our minds — all of us — to the fact that bilingualism is here to stay and it will only keep growing."

He recognizes that America is on the path to becoming bilingual and people should accept that we won't only be speaking English here.

Good link, methais. I think his points align with mine nicely and we, as a nation, would be enriched by not allowing ourselves to fall behind by not restricting or forcing one language over another.

I never implied that Americans learning another language would be a bad thing. I just don't think it's right to go live in any country that speaks a different language, refuse to learn their language, and then throw a fit because they're not accommodating you by catering to your native language.

[Methais]

Harsh!!!!!

Oh you, you're just so witty.

[diethx]

Harsh x2!

[Methais]

Harsh x2!

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp210/valueratio_2008/LOL%20Cats%202/TryingTooHard.jpg

Do I hear harsh x3?

[Showal]

That article claims that the second largest population of Spanish speaking people live in the US. That's sort of against the thought that this is an English speaking country and it is not equivalent to a boy shitting and showering in the girls room. This is a country with a significant population of Spanish speakers and we would be remiss to not accommodate that. Maybe it is pretty petty to get annoyed with seeing another language in an instructions manual. And something tells me still that the number of immigrants who refuse to learn English is a very small minority. Maybe you can find me another article that proves that point for me. Maybe you can start learning Spanish and not be the asshole who refuses to assimilate when America is a bilingual country. Your article states that clearly that is the future of our country.

[diethx]

Nah. I'm done with the sarcastic quips. I'll leave you to be your ignorant self and continue making a fool out of yourself.

You're right though, I should post something entertaining. I am feeling a bit emo lately - maybe I'll go make a thread to cry about how my heart was broken, much like you did.

I really doubt mine would be as epic, though. Fuck it, forget it. I can't live up to your standards.

[Showal]

It will be possible to get by in America only speaking English, but you probably should make the minimal effort to learn it. It's also possible these days to not be a female, but be able to shit and shower with the girls in the girls' locker room. What's your point? Much like an all you can eat buffet, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

You could also someday be the asshole everyone is accommodating to in order to avoid lawsuits when the majority of the population is bilingual and you can't read the Spanish warning labels.

[Methais]

Maybe you can start learning Spanish and not be the asshole who refuses to assimilate when America is a bilingual country. Your article states that clearly that is the future of our country.

Yo no quiero ser fluido en espanol en este momento. Tal vez si me decido a ir a un país de habla espanola, un día, voy a reconsiderarlo.

[Showal]

TLDR: the world is much smaller and it's harder to be an American isolationist. Nowadays, you're just an asshole when you expect everyone to conform to what you want.

[Showal]

Yo no quiero ser fluido en espanol en este momento. Tal vez si me decido a ir a un país de habla espanola, un día, voy a reconsiderarlo.

Hopefully you don't plan on that trip being to America in the not so distant future, then you'll have to reconsider sooner than later.

Also, do you realize how fucking annoying it is coming to an American forum and seeing your Spanish shit plastered all over the place?

[Latrinsorm]

My issue is that America is supposed to a melting pot, and learning the language is part of that "melting" process.How much melting have you done?

[Warriorbird]

I wonder just how quickly Methais can learn Cajun and French.

[Drisco]

Dem Gayz, Jews, and Hispanics are ruining the United States of America! Not to mention the worst kind. The Jewcifer breed, of self hating, demon worshipin, anti-semetic Jews combined with Lucifer. (Saying Jewcifer out loud kinda has a nice ring to it.)

[Tenlaar]

others come here because their cousin Roman falsely promised them women and riches and instead told him to drive his cab around the city.

I'm late and all, but this amused me greatly. Not only am I playing GTA4 again to brush up a bit before 5 comes out, I just got the mission where the chick wants you to come over because she can't understand what Little Jacob is saying.