Enchant vs Ensorcell (2nd account)

[Haldrik]

Hey,

I've got a second account for a bit that I'm toying with. I'm considering Wizard for enchanting or Sorcerer for the ensorcell. I noticed tonight theres about 80 wizards vs 30 sorcerers, so I'm thinking maybe enchanting won't be that profitable.

Both of them seem like they will be fun to play. What do you all think?

[Gelston]

Enchanting is better if you don't feel like having to put in work. Ensorcelling requires hunting and stuff.

[Fallen]

A LOT of hunting, especially moving beyond tier 1.

[Haldrik]

Enchanting is better if you don't feel like having to put in work. Ensorcelling requires hunting and stuff.

I love hunting. With that in mind?

[Gelston]

Ensorcelling is more rewarding I think, if you like hunting a lot. You still get all the hunting loot, the EXP, and then extra money on top from ensorcelling slots you sell.

[Haldrik]

Ensorcelling is more rewarding I think, if you like hunting a lot. You still get all the hunting loot, the EXP, and then extra money on top from ensorcelling slots you sell.

Hmm, not to segway, but what about general utility? I don't know much about Sorcs, but I know wizards can charge and imbed items right? Plus wizards can spell people up. Can Sorcs do that at all?

[msconstrew]

Hmm, not to segway, but what about general utility? I don't know much about Sorcs, but I know wizards can charge and imbed items right? Plus wizards can spell people up. Can Sorcs do that at all?

Sorcerers can imbed items via 420. They cannot recharge. They can spell people up, but only with spells from the MnE and the MnS circles; they do not have excellent utility spells like 503, 509, or 511.

[Allereli]

if you use scrolls and scroll infusion you will have access to just about any spell in the game.

[Gelston]

Hmm, not to segway, but what about general utility? I don't know much about Sorcs, but I know wizards can charge and imbed items right? Plus wizards can spell people up. Can Sorcs do that at all?

As msconstrew said, you can 420. You can also unlock/charge scrolls.

[Tgo01]

Is Ensorcell just as simple as casting the spell at the item in question? Or are there steps like tempering and waiting and having to be in a workshop and shit?

[msconstrew]

Is Ensorcell just as simple as casting the spell at the item in question? Or are there steps like tempering and waiting and having to be in a workshop and shit?

You hunt until the spell tells you that you've stored up enough necrotic energy to do a T1, T2, etc through T5 ensorcell. No tempering time needed, but you need to put the time into hunting.

[Gelston]

Well, you have to hunt up enough necrotic energy and crap... And eventually there will be tempering potions for sanctified weapons and stuff. Workshops give you a workshop bonus.

Yes though, you save up the energy, then 735/channel at the item.

That being said, unless your sorc is your main, you probably won't be ensorcelling often.

[msconstrew]

As msconstrew said, you can 420. You can also unlock/charge scrolls.

Yeah, I always forget about unlocking/charging scrolls because it is such a pain in my ass. But it is a useful skill and plenty of sorcerers are good at it.

[Androidpk]

Is the amount of energy determined by experienced gained or creatures killed?

[Gelston]

As far as I know, you can't go rampantly slaughtering roltons to gain energy. The official post on the release mentions killing "like level creatures".

[Aluvius]

Although a sorcerer cult slaughtering roltons for their necrotic energy would have been a nice way to go, too.

[Tgo01]

I'd rather hunt to get the energy needed and just cast at the item. I mean it's not a huge pain in the ass to temper and wait and shit but I just hate doing it.

[msconstrew]

Is the amount of energy determined by experienced gained or creatures killed?

Creatures killed. It is approximately 1,000 creatures for the first tier of necrotic energy, assuming that the creatures are your level or above AND that you deal the killing blow.

[Tgo01]

Well heck my next character was going to be a warrior but now I think I'll have my a sorc. Anyone know if you start saving up energy from level 0 or is it only after you learn the spell?

[msconstrew]

After you learn the spell.

[Tgo01]

After you learn the spell.

BOO!

[Suppressed Poet]

Riding off this thread and question about enchanting...

My 2nd account and first original long played character is a 43 mage. I haven't hunted him in years. I didn't enchant much when I played him for a good number of reasons.

I've been thinking about playing him a bit just to increase his level enough so I can have him enchant on the side. Assuming I fixed his training for that sole purpose, can anyone give me a good estimate of the level I need to reliably enchant to 7X? He is a dark elf with some gimped stats...but has max logic and aura right now if that helps. I could probably afford some minimal enhancives too.

I'm hoping the answer is not much more than 50...

[Suppressed Poet]

And to clarify, once I get to whatever level I need I'd fixskill him solely for enchanting. No hunting, no pf...I can just dump it all into spells, MIU, AS, HP, etc.

[lordsmo]

If you train for just enchanting and no hunting you can certainly do 7x at level 43. Probably even some fusion (3x 900 spell circle, 2x MIU etc....). The bottleneck for fusion will probably be that at that level you can't get more than 90 ranks of MIU, which won't be enough to reliably pour the pre-temper potions.

Alternatively, you can make a build that hunts effectively at 43 AND enchants plain 7x. Something like 940, 430, however many 500 ranks you can fit, 2x MIU, 1x AS, 1x EMC, 1x HP, 2x SA, 24 PF, 24 Air Lore.

[Haldrik]

Do wizards actually have to stay in one place during the tempering process or can they go hunt?

[Whirlin]

The Item being tempered can't be used during tempering... But Wizard can still do whatever.

[Allereli]

Do wizards actually have to stay in one place during the tempering process or can they go hunt?

they're locked in 3 months of RT

[Fallen]

they're locked in 3 months of RT

If you log out it resets.

[Buckwheet]

My advice? Do both. The wizard can start doing decent enchants around level 35 or you could just buy one in the 60ish range and do 7x. Since its your second account the wizard can spell up your other account and then log off until you need them again. They can also make you several useful imbeds such as 506, 509, 507, 508, and 410. When you are not actively spelling someone up log the wizard off and then bring in the sorcerer to go hunt to get the power to cast on the items.

[Aluvius]

If you train for just enchanting and no hunting you can certainly do 7x at level 43. Probably even some fusion (3x 900 spell circle, 2x MIU etc....). The bottleneck for fusion will probably be that at that level you can't get more than 90 ranks of MIU, which won't be enough to reliably pour the pre-temper potions.

Alternatively, you can make a build that hunts effectively at 43 AND enchants plain 7x. Something like 940, 430, however many 500 ranks you can fit, 2x MIU, 1x AS, 1x EMC, 1x HP, 2x SA, 24 PF, 24 Air Lore.

At 53 I've been doing 6x with never a failure so I assume I'm at minimum failure for plain items. I have a hunting build, 930, 553, 453 and 1x MIU, AS, EMC, HP, 2x SA, 1x PF, 24 Air Lore, 30ish Fire Lore and .5x Perc, Climb, Swim. I've been wondering if I should try some 7x, but I haven't so far because well that's a long chunk of major project time. I think I'd be fine though on the cast. And yeah even at this level I can't reliably do pre temper pours lol.

[Haldrik]

Alright, I'm going to jam out a sorcerer for the 1st 30 days. Phasing boxes really put me over the top as far as hunting usefulness. Plus I like that Ensorcell forces people to hunt so I'm thinking i will be a lot more rare (and hopefully valuable) then pocket wizards/enchants. Although the way the official forum chatter is...I wouldn't be surprised if it got easier. Hopefully not.

[Geijon Khyree]

Total spell ranks look good, but a lot of them are outside of wizard. I play a warmage and id advise 45 wizard ranks based on the secondary circle training and 1x tertiary skills. You can probably do 7x but not safely. Total spells and level help, but id not risk it myself.

[Aluvius]

Yeah this is a jack of all trades build so I could enchant and still hunt. Damn I miss warmaging, but I'm kitting out my alts and making a bit of silver for a bit longer I think. The neat thing about ensorcelling is that you can do it on normal items without having to adjust your hunting build much.

[Haldrik]

The neat thing about ensorcelling is that you can do it on normal items without having to adjust your hunting build much.

Hmmm... So what you're saying is that a normal hunting build can ensorcell normal items as in... non fusion, non flaring, etc? But if you wanted to go a really good ensorcell build it might affect your hunting?

Or let me know if I am way off.

[Methais]

If I had both a wizard and a sorcerer and wanted to ensorcell, I'd do this:

1. Join Sunfist with sorcerer
2. Have wizard stack Rapid Fire on sorcerer
3. Go pwn 473280492740 Grimswarm in a matter of minutes
4. Cast Ensorcell

A full warcamp has 500 Grimswarm, and if you rapid fire cast something cheap like 702/705, everything will die really fast, your mana will last a long time, and when you do eventually run out, just get more from your wizard.

I would think a sorcerer with access to Rapid Fire could ensorcell pretty fast with this method. I'm surprised nobody has tried it yet.

WTS 4 hours stack of Rapid Fire.

[Haldrik]

If I had both a wizard and a sorcerer and wanted to ensorcell, I'd do this:

1. Join Sunfist with sorcerer
2. Have wizard stack Rapid Fire on sorcerer
3. Go pwn 473280492740 Grimswarm in a matter of minutes
4. Cast Ensorcell

A full warcamp has 500 Grimswarm, and if you rapid fire cast something cheap like 702/705, everything will die really fast, your mana will last a long time, and when you do eventually run out, just get more from your wizard.

I would think a sorcerer with access to Rapid Fire could ensorcell pretty fast with this method. I'm surprised nobody has tried it yet.

WTS 4 hours stack of Rapid Fire.

Haha great idea. I don't really know if its needed though. There is a weekly cap on necrotic energy that I'm pretty sure can be achieved by a normal hunting routine.

[Aluvius]

Hmmm... So what you're saying is that a normal hunting build can ensorcell normal items as in... non fusion, non flaring, etc? But if you wanted to go a really good ensorcell build it might affect your hunting?

Or let me know if I am way off.

Yes. In the Sorc folder there's a neat testing thread for Ensorcell. It seems many items items won't need a sorcerer to be specially trained for the spell as opposed to enchanting at similar levels. Of course the more heavy duty items do seem to need stats/skills/workshop bonuses. But you could do most standard-ish hunting gear with a regular hunting build from what I've read.

[Suppressed Poet]

If I had both a wizard and a sorcerer and wanted to ensorcell, I'd do this:

1. Join Sunfist with sorcerer
2. Have wizard stack Rapid Fire on sorcerer
3. Go pwn 473280492740 Grimswarm in a matter of minutes
4. Cast Ensorcell

A full warcamp has 500 Grimswarm, and if you rapid fire cast something cheap like 702/705, everything will die really fast, your mana will last a long time, and when you do eventually run out, just get more from your wizard.

I would think a sorcerer with access to Rapid Fire could ensorcell pretty fast with this method. I'm surprised nobody has tried it yet.

WTS 4 hours stack of Rapid Fire.

Thats cool, and certainly effective, but guarantee your sorcerer will die on a somewhat regular occurrence in a big warcamp if that's what you hunt exclusively. You wouldn't think so, but the waves of grimswarm will kill you with FOF, cmans, and rt locks. Even with rapid fire, 702/705 will leave a window of oportunity for a square type to fuck you up every once in awhile.

Not that big of a deal really, but I would suggest having access to a cleric for the raise/rescues that are bound to happen.

[Suppressed Poet]

Also, thanks for the advice on the Mage.

I think I may just bring him up to 50. I'll need MJE up to about 20ish for decent spell ups with thurfels and strength, but otherwise I can dump all into wizard base and all the other enchanting factors. It sounds like that should make it safe for plain 7x enchants. Maybe if I could do fusion to 5x...that would be cool.

[Methais]

Thats cool, and certainly effective, but guarantee your sorcerer will die on a somewhat regular occurrence in a big warcamp if that's what you hunt exclusively. You wouldn't think so, but the waves of grimswarm will kill you with FOF, cmans, and rt locks. Even with rapid fire, 702/705 will leave a window of oportunity for a square type to fuck you up every once in awhile.

Not that big of a deal really, but I would suggest having access to a cleric for the raise/rescues that are bound to happen.

If you have Rapid Fire up, you can wipe out an entire room in seconds. Unless they're literally spawning so fast that you can't mash your keyboard fast enough, it would be an extremely rare occurrence that you'd get clipped.

And if a room really got that bad, just toss out an ewave or a quake. You have to cast at least a few aoe spells before you get a room backlash. And if it's really a problem you can just move over a couple rooms where the effect isn't there yet.

[Suppressed Poet]

I know there is no RT at all with rapid fire, but they do spawn really fast in warcamps and it only takes one rt lock to screw you. Hell maybe you are right though. I'd be interested to hear feedback if you or someone tries it out.

[Methais]

I know there is no RT at all with rapid fire, but they do spawn really fast in warcamps and it only takes one rt lock to screw you. Hell maybe you are right though. I'd be interested to hear feedback if you or someone tries it out.

Anytime I've gone in with Rapid Fire, nothing lived long enough to do anything as long as I had mana.