Return to Coraesine Field - Service Pricing Information

[Fallen]

I'm going to start throwing information I find here into a separate page, otherwise it will get buried. I believe they are also keeping track of this information at: http://gsguide.wikia.com/wiki/Return_to_Coraesine_Field

IMPORTANT NOTES:
1. There will also be a 10% surcharge to the item's inherited value, which will vary from item to item.
2. The cap on price for any service will be 250 Million silvers.
3. Some items will require "non-standard" permission to be upgraded. (Example: an 8x+ weapon receiving "Blink" scripts)



When adding flares to weapons, UCS Gear and runestaves:

Common flares will range from 0x enchant being 5000 to 10x costing 6000000
Uncommon flares will range from 0x being 8000 to 10x costing 9000000

For Armor and shield:

Common flares will range from 10k - 16mil
Uncommon flares will range from 15k - 24mil




Pricing for this event will have a lot of variables. There is just no avoiding that. But I've tried to alleviate as much of the pain as I could. Pricing for the following services will use the chart below: Creature Banes, AsG changes, ChronoFlares, Make-a-Returner, Blink Weapons, and Splitting Weapons.

Final Enchant Pricing
+0 15k silvers
+5 30k silvers
+10 60k silvers
+12 75k silvers
+15 120k silvers
+20 240k silvers
+25 500k silvers
+30 1.5mil silvers
+35 3mil silvers
+40 6mil silvers
+45 12mil silvers
+50 24mil silvers


There will also be a 10% surcharge to the item's inherited value, which will vary from item to item.




The other combat-related services that are MAJOR services will be variable pricing due to item properties. The absolute cap of a service is 250m, but that would be an outrageous service on an outrageous item. But I saw someone ask for examples, so let me try to help out there. Some rough examples.

Item Service Price
4x Brigandine Plain to HCP 500k
7x Brigandine Plain to HCP 7.7m
10x Brigandine Plain to HCP 60m
4x Brigandine HCP to MCP 1m
7x Brigandine HCP to MCP 12m
10x Brigandine HCP to MCP 90m


Fusion will be roughly a 500k to 1m surcharge. Armor that offers better protection will have greater charges (higher AsGs). There is no real way around that.




So, resistance is expensive. Let's try to dig some of the salt out of the wound it's festering in. Resistance will now follow the same pricing chart and 10% surcharge I posted like Creaturebane, AsG Changes, ChronoFlares, Blink Weapons, Splitting Weapons, and Make-a-Returner.

(NOTE: add 10% surchange to these numbers)
+0 15k silvers
+5 30k silvers
+10 60k silvers
+12 75k silvers
+15 120k silvers
+20 240k silvers
+25 500k silvers
+30 1.5mil silvers
+35 3mil silvers
+40 6mil silvers
+45 12mil silvers
+50 24mil silvers

It's tough to really know for sure. But you're probably at the 250m cap if you were to get it padded. Vulnerabilities are what really drive the price back down. And the last one offered was 10% (with I believe a 5% vulnerability). I don't think 30% was ever offered as a stand alone service.

The padding alone would likely be 250m each time too. And you'd cap out the armor at some point where it wouldn't be something we could work on. But to pad it twice, and then resistance, you'd probably be at 750m silvers.





Item​| Service| Price
4x Brigandine| Plain to HCP| 500k
7x Brigandine| Plain to HCP| 7.7m
9x Brigandine| Plain to HCP| 18.25m
10x Brigandine| Plain to HCP| 60m
4x Brigandine| HCP to MCP| 1m
7x Brigandine| HCP to MCP| 12m
9x Brigandine| HCP to MCP| 31m
10x Brigandine| HCP to MCP| 90m
4x Brigandine| MCP to ECP| 2.7m
7x Brigandine| MCP to ECP| 27.3m
9x Brigandine| MCP to ECP| 61m
10x Brigandine| MCP to ECP| 211m*

*This service would be outside the realm of standard approval, and would require additional approval.

Please note, I used brigandine because it's the middle grounds armor. Lighter will be less, heavier will be more.



>>1. Enchant on a +22 Masterfully Sighted Longbow

Depends on some more factors, but I don't want to get too into grabbing details for the sake of my sanity, haha. But anywhere between 500k and a mil. Not bad, right?

>>2. Padding on a set of x7 HCP fusion ASG 15 armor....if it was brig it would be 13 million.

About 30m or so.

>>3. 30 percent Resistance on that same set of armor.

20m-ish

[Fallen]

I'm going to use this space to post random questions/answers to specific gear and service questions:



>>And will the disarm returners work with e-bows?

It will not work with ANY scripted weapon. Must be unscripted.




Bane is indeed compatible with coraesine.




>>Paladin bonding okay to leave on?

Bonding of all sorts is fine.




Bandoliers are not an approved item we can work on at this time.

Nothing. Bandoliers are not an approved script to work on at all.




Fusion is fine for all the services that don't require a new script to be added. Or add enhancives to an item.




The string is not on the list of general approved items to work on. This doesn't mean that they are ineligible. It just means I can't give a general approval on it. It will strongly be based on the item properties.

>>In this case, the weapon is a 7x HCW axe. Any idea whether that will be eligible?

This would likely be over what would be eligible. With scripted weapons, our cap usually falls around 6x.




Archery doesn't play nice with the bane system. And bottomless quivers face the same road blocks as the bottomless bandoliers. So the answer is, those quivers are completely ineligible for any combat-oriented services.




Yes, but expect a surcharge.




>wondering how many post-name . . . defender weapon slots will be offered and what the defender bonus will be?

There will be 5 defender weapon slots. Hkala will add a 2x defender enchantment, up to 4x if your weapon is already a defender. Defender properties preclude flares and weighting, but does work with fluff scripts and approved combat scripts.

~Vanah




- Black ora katanas, claidhmores (old or new style), and naginatas are eligible to receive the true black ora script, but it would not be eligible for the +5 enchant regardless of enchant.

- Other black ora weapons with weighting of any kind are allowed to receive the black ora script, and are not eligible for the +5 enchant.

- Weapons with a script already attached are not eligible. (Removing a script would be considered an entirely separate service, and I believe the claidhmore you are referring to may have a script already? If I'm wrong then it should be fine.)

- Black ora weapons with flares are allowed to receive the black ora script, and are allowed the +5 enchant if below 5 enchants.

- Yes, most of the black ora off the shelf will be 4x, are you excited yet?




>>Is it 100% that we have to do this, is the rule technically that temp things matter not and we just have to remind the person performing the service? The reason I ask is, removing such things can be expensive. (or difficult, can you even remove warrior stuff?).

No, not 100%. It would just help with minimizing pricing mistakes. Temp still factors in the price like it's not temp. So it makes it a little more work for the GM handling it.




The larger groupings of Bane weapons (orc, giant, troll, undead, or extra planar critters) clock in at 8 points of weighting (Decent).

The Choose-your-Own is 12 points (Very Heavy) due to its more narrow focus.




>>If the gory weapon is created from scratch, what enchant will it be? Any bases not eligible? I see the scripts will change the way the weapon looks sometimes, so does it matter if we go with a long description or short w/show? Thanks, Wyrom. Really hoping for this one.

It would likely be better on your own weapon. It just needs to be an unscripted. New creation would work on all weapons except naginatas, claidhmores, and katanas. Enchant would be 6x.




>>Are there some general rules of thumb we can use to ensure that the gear we bring with us is workable and not 'too awesome'?

>>... or am I just totally misunderstanding here because I haven't had enough coffee? (It happens. Daily.)

Well, one example would be 10x armor with MCP. It would not be able to take ECP.

Resistance is absolutely capped at 30 points across all resistance on the armor. This includes resistance you already have. So if you have armor with 15% slash resistance. All you could gain from the service is another 15%. You'd have to forfeit the other 15%.

The numbers I listed a long time ago in regards to weighting and padding caps are final, so 30 points total (so my claid pricing example was a bad one. But katanas would be fine for weighting). If you had something with 22 points of weighting and won the weighting service, you'd top at 30, and forfeit the 2 points.

Once things are at the utmost top tiers, you'll have to sacrifice enchant for padding/weighting. So 10x MCP/MCW or 9x ECP/ECW. There will be other factors, like... Creature banes. If you had a creature bane ability added of say, HCW to orcs, then your caps would be 9x and 8x following the same rules as above.




>>1) Enchant service: Is this good for DB items? If it is, could you give some price examples?

It is not. I'm still seeing if the DB creation can be exchanged to add +5 to existing DB items. That's not confirmed yet. Someone mentioned somewhere it was. But it isn't.

>>2) +10 TD service: Can you give pricing examples for an 8x plain shield, 7x fusion shield, 8x HCP full leathers, 8x MCP full leathers?

Shield size is a big game changer. The armors would have to be unpadded. But shield about 5m for both, again, it changes a lot on shield size.

>>3) Weight reducing containers: Are there any limits to the capacity of the container to which this service can be applied, and can you give examples for the more popular container slots (back, cloak, shoulder, belt, pin, front)? Will it work with containers that get the epic deepening service? Does it work with the Stashers (paranoid) drawstring scripts?

Anything with abnormal deepening won't be allowed. The epic deepening is fine. I'd say most popular would be the containers that can hold the most. My bandoliers and climtewear work with this, because GM Tamuz and I are two peas in a pod, yo! I have no idea on the stashers script, is that the one where you don't have to open it? From an EG or two ago? I think so.

Anything to normal limits will be fine. So the 140lb cloaks/backpacks. And anything to the epic of that, which I believe is 180lbs. Those crystal and gem bags? No dice. Old [character name] sacks that got dyed that hold like 200lbs and belt/pin worn, no dice. Nor the 500lb ones. Anything over 200lbs won't work, to be more exact. If you live in fear that a GM might nerf your container, probably best to assume that container won't work.

>>5) For the items and services with ClimateWear, including the consolation prize, does "fully unlocked" mean tier 3 unlocked or raffle unlocked with a feature concealing hood?

Yes. Feature concealer big boy (girl) cloak!




"Bane" covers a few things and we've had confusion about it.

The old Death Weapons are a primitive form of "bane", keyed to one specific noun of critter. They are a script.

The Elven Trollbanes (the ones that speak Elven and tell you to burn all the trolls) were a later incarnation with a wider application. They are also a script.

The current Creature Bane services that have been going out for a few years are something new. They should work with absolutely any script imaginable, because they were designed with new bits to toggle, just so they wouldn't interfere with anything else. It is handled by a script, but that's done deep in the heart of the Combat Mechanics code. So the scripting application is not done to the weapon in question, leaving its script slot free for other things.

It's a very robust system and handles groupings of creatures (such as all orcs, all trolls, etc.) far better than any of its previous incarnations.

That makes it kind of a powerful service since you can stack it on top of so many other things. It could indeed work on a gem-eater. There might be a surcharge, however.




The Impure (LESSER) coraesine weapons have no abilities that use mana. Their main draw are the double strike flares, and air flares.

The Pure (MAJOR) coraesine uses mana for two different abilities.
The Call Wind property requires the user to be full on mana, and drains all of it.
The Hand of Tonis ability, which is usable three times per day, requires 15 mana per use. I might have missed mentioning it in all the teasers. But yes, 3x/day use of Hand of Tonis. Good for clearing clouds!




>>... say I have some pretty 6x armor with no special properties but have a good amount of premium points available. Say again, I get lucky enough to win some padding. Could I feasibly cash in the points to get my 6x armor padded heavy, at the same time the merchant then bumps me up another +10 points all in one transaction?

Sadly, no, this won't be something we can offer. Opens Pandora's Box.

[Tgo01]

What's up with the 211 million silvers for the 10x brig padding? An extra 5 DS makes the cost jump 150 million?

[BriarFox]

That's just the masterfully crit padded (~+20 points) to expertly crit padded (~+30) points. The price is ludicrous, but then, so is expert padding.

[Tgo01]

That's just the masterfully crit padded (~+20 points) to expertly crit padded (~+30) points. The price is ludicrous, but then, so is expert padding.

I can understand the padding costing an arm and a leg, I just don't see why 9x is 61 million and 10x is 211 million. I guess they don't want people to easily 'max out' their armor.

[Drew]

I don't understand how they can charge so much after you've already paid real money for this event.

[Jarvan]

What's up with the 211 million silvers for the 10x brig padding? An extra 5 DS makes the cost jump 150 million?

basically, they don't want it in game. Hence the * saying it is outside normal realms of approval.

[BriarFox]

They're using some sort of geometric scale, it looks like. I agree that it's crazy.

[msconstrew]

All I can say is that it is absolutely clear that I did not purchase enough silvers to attend this event, which is depressing for obvious reasons.

[SHAFT]

The 90m charge for more padding on 10x hcp took the jelly right out of my doughnut. Just doesn't seem worth it. Would rather sell the slot.

[Fallen]

Ok. I think that covers just about all the useful information in that thread. I'll update these original posts should anything else pop up that's interesting.

[Manamethis]

The 90m charge for more padding on 10x hcp took the jelly right out of my doughnut. Just doesn't seem worth it. Would rather sell the slot.

10x MCP armor would have an incredible value.

[Methais]

I don't understand how they can charge so much after you've already paid real money for this event.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/946147_480439302027740_261708361_n.jpg

[Sile]

10x mcp would, but with the value of silvers right now, that's about $1200 to upgrade. Sure they will be worth an insane amount, but would be very hard to move at value, infact it probably would be moved at a loss. Say 10x hcp is worth 100m + 90m for the extra padding. When silvers were worth $7 sure, that's not a bad deal, but now they are selling for 12-14.

I wouldn't do it to try to make a profit (better off selling the slot), but I'd do it if I was planning on keeping it.

[Drew]

Yeah you will lose money everytime on that padding.

[Jarvan]

10x mcp would, but with the value of silvers right now, that's about $1200 to upgrade. Sure they will be worth an insane amount, but would be very hard to move at value, infact it probably would be moved at a loss. Say 10x hcp is worth 100m + 90m for the extra padding. When silvers were worth $7 sure, that's not a bad deal, but now they are selling for 12-14.

I wouldn't do it to try to make a profit (better off selling the slot), but I'd do it if I was planning on keeping it.

Just an fyi.. 10x mcp fulls sold for 250+ mill. And that was when the silvers were around 10 or so.

You may not make a profit.. but you could always make your money back.

[Methais]

10x mcp would, but with the value of silvers right now, that's about $1200 to upgrade. Sure they will be worth an insane amount, but would be very hard to move at value, infact it probably would be moved at a loss. Say 10x hcp is worth 100m + 90m for the extra padding. When silvers were worth $7 sure, that's not a bad deal, but now they are selling for 12-14.

I wouldn't do it to try to make a profit (better off selling the slot), but I'd do it if I was planning on keeping it.

Silvers will probably drop back down to $7-8 per once all the RtCF runs are done with...in 6 months.

[Tgo01]

Silvers will probably drop back down to $7-8 per once all the RtCF runs are done with...in 6 months.

I'm starting a cartel amongst all silver sellers. We have agreed the price will never drop below 10 dollars per million.

[Jarvan]

I'm starting a cartel amongst all silver sellers. We have agreed the price will never drop below 10 dollars per million.

I won't expect it to fall below the 10 mark till after EG myself.

[Methais]

I forgot about EG.

I apologize to the Jews.

[SHAFT]

10x MCP armor would have an incredible value.

Yeah I don't doubt it, but do I really need 10x MCP when I have 10x HCP? Do I really need to spend 90m for more padding? I'm leaning towards no.

If I get into the event, if I win the padding slot, I'd probably pull the trigger. I'd rather have other shit though.

[Jarvan]

Yeah I don't doubt it, but do I really need 10x MCP when I have 10x HCP? Do I really need to spend 90m for more padding? I'm leaning towards no.

If I get into the event, if I win the padding slot, I'd probably pull the trigger. I'd rather have other shit though.

My same feeling.. insane padding is more a status symbol then mechanically useful at this point. Heck, almost better saving the 90+ mill for the padding bump, and put it towards a 9-10x DB if you don't have one.

[Drew]

Just an fyi.. 10x mcp fulls sold for 250+ mill. And that was when the silvers were around 10 or so.

You may not make a profit.. but you could always make your money back.

Remember the person has to pay for the initial item + the upgrade before they make money back. There's no way it works out.

[SHAFT]

Remember the person has to pay for the initial item + the upgrade before they make money back. There's no way it works out.

I paid 110m for the armor. So 200m for 10x MCP, max light LBP. I could probably get the 200m back on it. I wouldn't expect to make much, but you never know.

I'd never sell it though. It would have to be for something better and there isn't much out there that is better than that. Maybe some 10x fusion with HCP+.

[Jarvan]

Remember the person has to pay for the initial item + the upgrade before they make money back. There's no way it works out.

Well, 100 + 90 is generally less then 250.

Granted, Creating a 10x item from a 7x (and adding padding) would cost more then 100m to begin with if you did it with points. But still would generally cost around 130-150. Add 90 and you are still around 220-240. About the break even point. IF you can sell it. Most people though going up to MCP or EXCP generally are not looking at resale.

Of course I think the real profit is in the 6-7x fusion range. 7x HCP taken to MCP would be worth it for resale.

[crb]

MCP and above currently sells for such a high premium because it is rare. As long as you're working on theoretical resale scenarios you have to consider what an influx of 30 more sets (I'm assuming no one wastes the slot on hcp) will do. Granted, many of those sets won't be sold, but they'll still take potential customers out of the equation.

Personally, I don't much care what it costs, I won't be buying for resale. I want to get padding done twice to my armor (making it xcp) and resistance done once. Then, for the umteenth time, I will say to myself "I probably never need to upgrade my armor again" and it'll likely be the truth this time. If that costs me 300m, so be it (hopefully, it'll be less, depends on the auctions I guess).

[Jarvan]

MCP and above currently sells for such a high premium because it is rare. As long as you're working on theoretical resale scenarios you have to consider what an influx of 30 more sets (I'm assuming no one wastes the slot on hcp) will do. Granted, many of those sets won't be sold, but they'll still take potential customers out of the equation.

Personally, I don't much care what it costs, I won't be buying for resale. I want to get padding done twice to my armor (making it xcp) and resistance done once. Then, for the umteenth time, I will say to myself "I probably never need to upgrade my armor again" and it'll likely be the truth this time. If that costs me 300m, so be it (hopefully, it'll be less, depends on the auctions I guess).

I think you may see only a few sets made for resale, most people will get this done to personal armor.

[Fallen]

I think you may see only a few sets made for resale, most people will get this done to personal armor.

Agreed. I don't think people will be able to afford 30 sets of MCP armor.

[Archigeek]

Yeah I don't doubt it, but do I really need 10x MCP when I have 10x HCP? Do I really need to spend 90m for more padding? I'm leaning towards no.

If I get into the event, if I win the padding slot, I'd probably pull the trigger. I'd rather have other shit though.

The other half of the problem is who's going to buy yor slot and THEN fork over another 100m or whatever? The pricing structure is nuts, and really has only been a trend for the last 3 years or so. I remember when the idea of paying AFTER winning an auction first came out. What the heck? Auctions represent market value, how are you supposed to bid when you have no idea what the cost is going to be after you win even? It's going to be weird, and depressing for a lot fo folks.

[Manamethis]

What type of resistance would you get?

[msconstrew]

The other half of the problem is who's going to buy yor slot and THEN fork over another 100m or whatever? The pricing structure is nuts, and really has only been a trend for the last 3 years or so. I remember when the idea of paying AFTER winning an auction first came out. What the heck? Auctions represent market value, how are you supposed to bid when you have no idea what the cost is going to be after you win even? It's going to be weird, and depressing for a lot fo folks.

Hehe, I know everyone in this thread is a baller, but I just added up my silvers and I have approximately 37m. So I think it is safe to say that any of the services I might want are going to be out of my reach. If Simu is upset about people selling services, then they should make them affordable.

[Androidpk]

Hehe, I know everyone in this thread is a baller, but I just added up my silvers and I have approximately 37m. So I think it is safe to say that any of the services I might want are going to be out of my reach. If Simu is upset about people selling services, then they should make them affordable.

Oh yeah? My bard has 37,000 silvers!

[Methais]

Oh yeah? My bard has 37,000 silvers!

I have 37,000 bounty points!

[Androidpk]

http://i43.tinypic.com/rc0x6v.jpg

[Sile]

I have 99 problems but a RTCF ticket ain't one.

[Originate]

I am really hoping to do a few runs of BSC before and score some of the padded armor to get worked on. That seems like the most economical route since I only have plain 4x gear.

Can someone remind me what kind of attack crawlers do most often? ?

[Archigeek]

I am really hoping to do a few runs of BSC before and score some of the padded armor to get worked on. That seems like the most economical route since I only have plain 4x gear.

Can someone remind me what kind of attack crawlers do most often? ?

If you mean rift crawlers, you're probably thinking of slash, which is the type of damage they do on entry.

[SHAFT]

Hehe, I know everyone in this thread is a baller, but I just added up my silvers and I have approximately 37m. So I think it is safe to say that any of the services I might want are going to be out of my reach. If Simu is upset about people selling services, then they should make them affordable.

You have more than me

[Archigeek]

Now that I do have a ticket, I'm pretty sure they're just about to the point of deciding that they won't work on any of my stuff.

[BriarFox]

Looks like it'll cost me 30m to pad my 7x hcp 4-slot fusion chain to mcp. I don't mind paying that, actually, but I won't be on the first run. Maybe I can find someone who wants to sell a padding slot, though who knows what that'll cost me.

[dszabo]

I think Hoy needs to get his armor padded...

[Manamethis]

Now that I do have a ticket, I'm pretty sure they're just about to the point of deciding that they won't work on any of my stuff.

They won't enchant your bow?

[Archigeek]

Looks like it'll cost me 30m to pad my 7x hcp 4-slot fusion chain to mcp. I don't mind paying that, actually, but I won't be on the first run. Maybe I can find someone who wants to sell a padding slot, though who knows what that'll cost me.

Of course you don't. Who would? That's kind of been the point of recent discussion. They've so over-valued enchant, that the same armor with 10 enchants would cost you 240m if your math is right. An extra 210m for a lousy 15DS. It just doesn't make any sense.

[Androidpk]

I'll sell someone my padding slot (if I win one) for 60m. Payable in silvers, USD, or bacon. If all you have is tacos we can probably negotiate something.

[BriarFox]

Oh, I agree. The 7x costs, at least, are somewhat reasonable, but their geometric (or whatever) scale means that people with higher enchants are getting shafted. I remember how ridiculous an earlier version of this pricing system was at the first CCF, especially with resistances. I turned down padding on some of that resistant kiramon brig because the surcharge for the padding was over 20m.

[SHAFT]

I hate getting shafted! It's not right, but is ironic.

[Jarvan]

Oh, I agree. The 7x costs, at least, are somewhat reasonable, but their geometric (or whatever) scale means that people with higher enchants are getting shafted. I remember how ridiculous an earlier version of this pricing system was at the first CCF, especially with resistances. I turned down padding on some of that resistant kiramon brig because the surcharge for the padding was over 20m.

They wanted to charge me 100+ mill when I tried to get my friends armor worked on. Was trying for an enchant, 9x doubles mcp. 100 mill for 5 ds.

[Moonwitch]

I'm very happy they have lowered the price penalty for resistance. Does anyone know how to tell how much you have on your armor? Bard song will reveal heavy and moderate but what does that equate to in numbers?

[Mindiloish]

looking to take a 4x +20 weighted item to +30 weight, how much do you think that will cost since its only 4x?

[SHAFT]

looking to take a 4x +20 weighted item to +30 weight, how much do you think that will cost since its only 4x?

Thought you were closing out your accounts?

[Sav]

Anyone Know what it'd cost to put 10 points of padding on 7 x mcp plate?

[BriarFox]

Anyone Know what it'd cost to put 10 points of padding on 7 x mcp plate?

7x mcp to ecp brig costs 27.3m. I'm going to guess plate will be about 6 times that.

[SHAFT]

Plus you're Talman so.....you get penalized like 50m

[Drew]

7x mcp to ecp brig costs 27.3m. I'm going to guess plate will be about 6 times that.

Wait, they charge more for heavier armour? How does that make sense?

[BriarFox]

They do, and I don't know how they justify it. That's the scale, though. 7x hcp fusion brig to mcp is 13m, while 7x hcp fusion augmented chain to mcp is 30m, for example.

[Drew]

They do, and I don't know how they justify it. That's the scale, though. 7x hcp fusion brig to mcp is 13m, while 7x hcp fusion augmented chain to mcp is 30m, for example.

That is ridiculous and makes no sense. Pures already aren't gear reliant to the degree heavy armour users are and they get a discount? This whole setup is so infuriating.

[Fallen]

Remember that there is the added charge of 10% of the item's actual worth. Someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe heavier armors are inherently worth more than light armors.

[Drew]

Remember that there is the added charge of 10% of the item's actual worth. Someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe heavier armors are inherently worth more than light armors.

For no good reason, yes they are worth more.

[Thondalar]

For no good reason, yes they are worth more.

Yep, it's why a suit of 4x fusion brig costs 150k off the shelf, and a suit of 4x fusion full plate costs 1.1m off the shelf. Their reasoning is the silliest reason of all...realism!

A suit of leather armor IRL costs much less to make than a suit of full plate. And yes, there are actually people still making both.

Regardless, this has indeed dashed my hopes of getting 10x 30 point armor made. I figured that would cost maybe 100m total...but tbh, others touched on this earlier...having even heavy padding helps tremendously in the main area that my pure needs help...maneuvers crits. I swapped out of my 10x hcp on my wiz one day for plain 8x fulls, I died twice to charges that resulted in minors when wearing the hcp armor. Same location, same rolls. With this pricing structure i'm probably not even going to bother with the 10x. I'll bring some 7-8x stuff that would be good for other work and sell a padding slot if I get it.

-Thond

[crb]

That is ridiculous and makes no sense. Pures already aren't gear reliant to the degree heavy armour users are and they get a discount? This whole setup is so infuriating.

I believe they justify it with relative protective value.

Plate protects a hell of a lot better than leather. 30 points of padding on leather is nice, but you'll still get walloped, 30 points of padding on plate and you're practically a god.

This whole thing was hashed out on the boards back prior to the last EG, but that was the general gist of it.

[Archigeek]

I believe they justify it with relative protective value.

Plate protects a hell of a lot better than leather. 30 points of padding on leather is nice, but you'll still get walloped, 30 points of padding on plate and you're practically a god.

This whole thing was hashed out on the boards back prior to the last EG, but that was the general gist of it.

While heavy armor off the shelf has always cost more, this idiotic pricing structure for improving armor has only been around a few years. You are no more a god in 30 point plate than you are in 30 point full leather. Though what is true is that enchant means more in light armor than it does in heavy armor. The real issue is that at some point they decided to tie cost to improve items to some sort of completely out of wack value chart, that over weights two things: enchant and armor class. It also is out of sync with their own valuations via the premium point system.

[Whirlin]

While heavy armor off the shelf has always cost more, this idiotic pricing structure for improving armor has only been around a few years. You are no more a god in 30 point plate than you are in 30 point full leather. Though what is true is that unlike heavy armor, enchant means more in light armor than it does in heavy armor. That is however due to redux and crit divisor, not paddi
I'm confused by your statements... you seem to pull a 180 in there.

You are more protected against death in 30 point plate than 30 point full leather. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise... And this is due not only to the crit divisor, but also preferential Damage Factors.

The reason enchant means more in lighter armor is due to the higher damage factors. If we go off the far end of the spectrum of a a claid's .475 DF on leather, ignoring the natural weighting, +5 to endroll would be 2.375 more damage, which is also about 40% of a crit tier. So when dealing with such high consequences of being hit, the best way to prevent it is to not be hit.

Lets assume 30 points of crit padding. And lets continue with the claid damage factors, while ignoring natural weighting. Lets see the requirements for a neck-death crit (rank 6)
Against leathers:.475 DF, Divisor 6
Endroll without padding needed for Rank 6: 176
Endroll with 30 points of crit padding needed for rank 6: 239

Against Plate: .225 DF, Divisor 11
Endroll without padding needed for rank 6: 393
Endroll with 30 points of crit padding needed for rank 6: 527
((Rank * Divisor) / DF) + 100

Plate is already ridiculously superior... on pretty much every level. If they're trying to normalize the strength of armors, it would be logical to make services cheaper on lower tier armor relative to the high tier. That's completely ignoring the lolreallife accuracy of being easier to reinforce leather than plate.

[Archigeek]

I'm confused by your statements... you seem to pull a 180 in there.

You are more protected against death in 30 point plate than 30 point full leather. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise... And this is due not only to the crit divisor, but also preferential Damage Factors.

The reason enchant means more in lighter armor is due to the higher damage factors. If we go off the far end of the spectrum of a a claid's .475 DF on leather, ignoring the natural weighting, +5 to endroll would be 2.375 more damage, which is also about 40% of a crit tier. So when dealing with such high consequences of being hit, the best way to prevent it is to not be hit.

Lets assume 30 points of crit padding. And lets continue with the claid damage factors, while ignoring natural weighting. Lets see the requirements for a neck-death crit (rank 6)
Against leathers:.475 DF, Divisor 6
Endroll without padding needed for Rank 6: 176
Endroll with 30 points of crit padding needed for rank 6: 239

Against Plate: .225 DF, Divisor 11
Endroll without padding needed for rank 6: 393
Endroll with 30 points of crit padding needed for rank 6: 527
((Rank * Divisor) / DF) + 100

Plate is already ridiculously superior... on pretty much every level. If they're trying to normalize the strength of armors, it would be logical to make services cheaper on lower tier armor relative to the high tier. That's completely ignoring the lolreallife accuracy of being easier to reinforce leather than plate.

The problem is you're doing your analysis in a vacuum. You're not factoring in the simple fact that the light armor wearer's DS will be far higher than the heavy armor wearer. So the heavy armor wearer gets hit about 20 times for each time the light armor wearer gets hit.

[everan]

It also is out of sync with their own valuations via the premium point system.
Yes, it costs the same amount of PP to add Heavy padding to robes as it does to plate, not that we want to give them any ideas about changing that.

[Fallen]

Plate should start out with a higher base value, but the cost of adding services to it should be the same as any other class, other than being based off that higher base value. No one but Warriors, Rogues, and Paladins can pull off plate outside of a few mutant builds, and a Warrior/Paladin outside of plate class armor is severely gimped. Their whole design is based around being in plate.

[crb]

Against leathers:.475 DF, Divisor 6
Endroll without padding needed for Rank 6: 176
Endroll with 30 points of crit padding needed for rank 6: 239

Against Plate: .225 DF, Divisor 11
Endroll without padding needed for rank 6: 393
Endroll with 30 points of crit padding needed for rank 6: 527

Whirlin knows his stuff.

Like I said, relative benefit.

The "endroll difference" provided by 30 points of padding on leather is 63. On plate it is 134. If you're looking at it from the standpoint of what does a critter need to do to beat your padding, with the same level of padding a critter needs about a full blue crystal's worth of AS more to beat plate than to beat leather.

Simplistically, padding essentially is a percentage modifier to the relative protective value of your armor. Multiply a larger number by a constant percentage will provide a larger increase than you'd find when multiplying a smaller number by that same percentage.

I'm not going to argue if it is right or wrong, balanced, or not, for them to do this. But GMs do have a justification, they have explained it before (as I said, prior to the last EG, Kerl should remember the thread he participated in it). Saying that they're pulling it out of their ass is unfair.

[Whirlin]

The problem is you're doing your analysis in a vacuum. You're not factoring in the simple fact that the light armor wearer's DS will be far higher than the heavy armor wearer. So the heavy armor wearer gets hit about 20 times for each time the light armor wearer gets hit.

I think you're confusing class mechanics with the armor mechanics. Warriors, as a class, have lower DS than pures. It is a symptom of the class, not the armor.

Mechanically, the difference between the armors is only applied on the dodge DS calculation, in which full plate has a 15% reduction of dodge compared to double leathers. Your statement also did not take into account preferential AvD values (32 double leather versus 19 full plate). If the two armors were in fact equal, that would require (393-176 = 217 + 13 from AvD = 230 /.15 = ) 1533 DS being generated from dodge alone for the DS reduction to be consistent with the endroll crit-deaths.

[crb]

The problem is you're doing your analysis in a vacuum. You're not factoring in the simple fact that the light armor wearer's DS will be far higher than the heavy armor wearer. So the heavy armor wearer gets hit about 20 times for each time the light armor wearer gets hit.

1. That isn't generally true. It depends on build. A square who triples in shield can certainly put up a much higher DS than a pure with a runestaff.

2. You're picking and choosing which variables you're counting. You want to consider that plate wearers tend to get hit more often, but ignore your dfredux and plate's much much much higher base defense. Which, are supposed to balance that fact out. You're trying to argue from a game balance perspective while ignoring lots of other variables that mitigate game balance. That also side-steps the value issue. Is padding more valuable on plate or on leather? The question to that would seem to be obvious. Charging more for something that has more value doesn't seem to be unreasonable.

I'm getting deja vu.

[Archigeek]

Honestly this has no direct impact on me anyway, since I don't even use padding.. I just think that their pricing structure has gone bonkers in the last few years, and this is just one element of what's messed up.

Further evidence:

For improving shields, apparently size will now factor into price, even though no size is inherently better.
The cost to improve 7x mcp brig to expert padding is less than the cost to add hcp to 10x brig.
Adding uncommon flares are the same price as "make a returner".

The biggest flaw stems from some chart someone came up with, where except for in one spot, each successive enchant costs twice what the one before did. The error of this method is clearly evident at the top and bottom of the chart, as one might expect it to be.

Edit: the 7x expert padded brig cost is less than half the 10x hcp cost! That is completely messed up, and is just further evidence that in order to maintain the purity of their multiplier, pricing is absurd at the top and bottom ends.

[Archigeek]

I think you're confusing class mechanics with the armor mechanics. Warriors, as a class, have lower DS than pures. It is a symptom of the class, not the armor.

Mechanically, the difference between the armors is only applied on the dodge DS calculation, in which full plate has a 15% reduction of dodge compared to double leathers. Your statement also did not take into account preferential AvD values (32 double leather versus 19 full plate). If the two armors were in fact equal, that would require (393-176 = 217 + 13 from AvD = 230 /.15 = ) 1533 DS being generated from dodge alone for the DS reduction to be consistent with the endroll crit-deaths.

I am not confusing them, I'm considering them. Hence the vacuum statement.

[Archigeek]

1. That isn't generally true. It depends on build. A square who triples in shield can certainly put up a much higher DS than a pure with a runestaff.

2. You're picking and choosing which variables you're counting. You want to consider that plate wearers tend to get hit more often, but ignore your dfredux and plate's much much much higher base defense. Which, are supposed to balance that fact out. You're trying to argue from a game balance perspective while ignoring lots of other variables that mitigate game balance. That also side-steps the value issue. Is padding more valuable on plate or on leather? The question to that would seem to be obvious. Charging more for something that has more value doesn't seem to be unreasonable.

I'm getting deja vu.

Actually it is generally true. Even a square who triples shield use will have a lower ds than a pure with a standard build.

And I didn't ignore those factors, I brought them up.

And yes of course I do remember the discussion on the officials from before. And if it weren't for myself and others making the arguments that their pricing system is bonkers, it would be even worse. But prior argument is not evidence of satisfactory resolution.

[Drew]

1. That isn't generally true. It depends on build. A square who triples in shield can certainly put up a much higher DS than a pure with a runestaff.

2. You're picking and choosing which variables you're counting. You want to consider that plate wearers tend to get hit more often, but ignore your dfredux and plate's much much much higher base defense. Which, are supposed to balance that fact out. You're trying to argue from a game balance perspective while ignoring lots of other variables that mitigate game balance. That also side-steps the value issue. Is padding more valuable on plate or on leather? The question to that would seem to be obvious. Charging more for something that has more value doesn't seem to be unreasonable.

I'm getting deja vu.


The funniest part of you arguing this is if you played a warrior instead of a sorcerer you would have a page on your website about how this was a grave injustice. Any class who wears plate is balanced based on the fact that they wear plate. It's the baseline. They aren't getting "more" protection than a pure. They start with less and the plate makes up for some of that. Pures have had a system wide advantage for the past 15 years and that's still true today. There is no reason that squares should be charged more money, especially so much more, to be at the baseline.

In fact padding is much more powerful on lighter armour because it addresses the main concern of pures which is CM attacks. The main concern of squares is warding spells and padding does far less (often nothing) against that. If anyone should pay more for padding, it should be people who get lighter armour padded.

[crb]

The funniest part of you arguing this is if you played a warrior instead of a sorcerer you would have a page on your website about how this was a grave injustice. Any class who wears plate is balanced based on the fact that they wear plate. It's the baseline. They aren't getting "more" protection than a pure. They start with less and the plate makes up for some of that. Pures have had a system wide advantage for the past 15 years and that's still true today. There is no reason that squares should be charged more money, especially so much more, to be at the baseline.

In fact padding is much more powerful on lighter armour because it addresses the main concern of pures which is CM attacks. The main concern of squares is warding spells and padding does far less (often nothing) against that. If anyone should pay more for padding, it should be people who get lighter armour padded.

Assumption fail.

Despite the fact that the RtCF ticket release method benefits me as someone who can play at any time during the day, MAs, and has made 20m silvers selling ticket buying services to others, I vehemently argued against it and still maintain it is a bad method. You'd be wrong to assume self interest is the impetus for my arguments.

[Whirlin]

Actually it is generally true. Even a square who triples shield use will have a lower ds than a pure with a standard build.

And I didn't ignore those factors, I brought them up.

And yes of course I do remember the discussion on the officials from before. And if it weren't for myself and others making the arguments that their pricing system is bonkers, it would be even worse. But prior argument is not evidence of satisfactory resolution.

What are you actually trying to argue now? That 10x HCP padding should cost more or less than 7x MCP padding? Heavier Armor shouldn't cost more than Lighter armor? Your argument has been complaints about the cost structure each post, from sweeping statements to specific nitpicking without justification for why X shouldn't cost more than Y, etc.

It seems like you're arguing for charging X for padding, regardless of armor type, enchant, and base padding... this goes directly against Simutronics' goal of this style of event.

1) Sell Tickets, Make Cash
2) Drain silvers from the economy
3) Minimize the upward push on top tier equipment while still allowing people to improve their gear.

[stormcrow]

To be honest, for a capped warrior having any crit padding in plate past heavy really isn't going to matter much, it's overkill. Like Kerl, I don't even wear my crit padded plate anymore. I'm fine with flaring armor and I put some warrior resistance on it. Flaring armor for a capped warrior saves me when I get in trouble because it can actually stun or knockdown something when in RT. I've got a set of VHCP plate that I was going to bring to get padded (for resale or my rogue), but with the pricing I think I'd rather just get the +10 TD.

[Archigeek]

What are you actually trying to argue now? That 10x HCP padding should cost more or less than 7x MCP padding? Heavier Armor shouldn't cost more than Lighter armor? Your argument has been complaints about the cost structure each post, from sweeping statements to specific nitpicking without justification for why X shouldn't cost more than Y, etc.

It seems like you're arguing for charging X for padding, regardless of armor type, enchant, and base padding... this goes directly against Simutronics' goal of this style of event.

1) Sell Tickets, Make Cash
2) Drain silvers from the economy
3) Minimize the upward push on top tier equipment while still allowing people to improve their gear.

I think my argument has been fairly clear and consistent, but apparently not clear enough: the cost structure is bonkers. I'm in no way arguing that it should be identical for a service across enchant. I am arguing that the following should be true:

1. Padding across ASG should cost the same.
2. Using a price chart where with every successive enchant the price goes up 2x is nuts.
3. Multiplying it by padding costs makes said chart even nuttier, as evidenced by my 7x XCP vs 10x HCP example.
4. Not all buffs are created equal: make-a-returner is worth a shit-ton more than flares, usual or unusual.
5. Shield size has no bearing on effectiveness except as dependent on build, therefore the cost to work on one shield shouldn't be any different than the cost to work on another, enchants being equal.
6. Material shouldn't make squat for difference, since it means zero difference in function. If they want material to factor into cost, then they should highlight differences in material function. They've done just the opposite, where all are largely the same at this point, with few exceptions.
7. Armor and shield flares should not cost more then weapon flares, since they're functionally teh suck by comparison, particularly for shields, where flares are only active.

There, that's my pricing manifesto... subject to edits.

And to keep things possitive, I have recommended that:

2. They should try a different structure, perhaps 1.5x instead of 2x price multiple per enchant. This would cut the distortion at the top and bottom ends.
7. Shield flares should be half price, since they're not even half as effective.

And a bunch of other stuff I can't remember.

[Fallen]

I don't believe in the argument that a warrior in 5x HCP Plate is better off than a Wizard in 5x HCP Full leathers. A pure survives by not getting hit with AS/DS attacks, so AvD is a non-factor between the two. If the pure is taking any damage from straight swings/bolts something has gone terribly wrong. The warrior survives by shrugging them off, and as said the HCP is just icing on the cake at that point.

TD, all that extra CvA gained by wearing plate makes up for the fact that the warrior has very few ways to gain TD without spells. Again, the pure should NOT be getting hit with CS spells. I'd argue that even against spiritual spells, a warrior is no better/worse off than the pure with armor. A pure's spells are going to provide more benefit than plate's CvA, even at half strength, and padding is useless.

That leaves maneuvers. Warriors can 3x Physical Training, have cheap perception training, and gobs of CM training. Maneuvers are a concern, but they are the best off against them. Padding will keep the stuns down, but it is the plate itself that confers protection more than anything else (baring lightning attacks). The wizard will be primarily concerned with these because they are basically immune to the other two forms of damage. Padding is of a huge benefit here, as even if it doesn't help as much as HCP plate, it is their only means of stacking the odds in their favor.

If anything, adding padding to plate should be cheap for plate and costly for leathers. Adding TD to plate should cost a fortune and be dirt cheap for light leathers.

[Archigeek]

What are you actually trying to argue now? That 10x HCP padding should cost more or less than 7x MCP padding? Heavier Armor shouldn't cost more than Lighter armor? Your argument has been complaints about the cost structure each post, from sweeping statements to specific nitpicking without justification for why X shouldn't cost more than Y, etc.

It seems like you're arguing for charging X for padding, regardless of armor type, enchant, and base padding... this goes directly against Simutronics' goal of this style of event.

1) Sell Tickets, Make Cash
2) Drain silvers from the economy
3) Minimize the upward push on top tier equipment while still allowing people to improve their gear.

To more closely respond to your comments:

Cost to work on armor should be the same across ASG, but not across enchant.

And regarding your comment #3: 7x expert padded armor (30 points of padding) is far better than 10x heavy crit padded armor (10 points of padding). Does it not occur to you that making the former is a much larger push on upward gear development than the latter? And yet it costs less than half as much per their pricing structure. I'm guessing a fair number of people who spent their premium points on enchants are wishing they hadn't at this point.

[Archigeek]

I don't believe in the argument that a warrior in 5x HCP Plate is better off than a Wizard in 5x HCP Full leathers. A pure survives by not getting hit with AS/DS attacks, so AvD is a non-factor between the two. If the pure is taking any damage from straight swings/bolts something has gone terribly wrong. The warrior survives by shrugging them off, and as said the HCP is just icing on the cake at that point.

TD, all that extra CvA gained by wearing plate makes up for the fact that the warrior has very few ways to gain TD without spells. Again, the pure should NOT be getting hit with CS spells. I'd argue that even against spiritual spells, a warrior is no better/worse off than the pure with armor. A pure's spells are going to provide more benefit than plate's CvA, even at half strength, and padding is useless.

That leaves maneuvers. Warriors can 3x Physical Training, have cheap perception training, and gobs of CM training. Maneuvers are a concern, but they are the best off against them. Padding will keep the stuns down, but it is the plate itself that confers protection more than anything else (baring lightning attacks). The wizard will be primarily concerned with these because they are basically immune to the other two forms of damage. Padding is of a huge benefit here, as even if it doesn't help as much as HCP plate, it is their only means of stacking the odds in their favor.

If anything, adding padding to plate should be cheap for plate and costly for leathers. Adding TD to plate should cost a fortune and be dirt cheap for light leathers.

While I agree with much of what you are saying, there is a paradox there that you are missing. For SMR's, plate is more of a reliability than a benefit, as the maneuver penalty of plate counts directly against you. You can partially train this away, but even maximally trained for armor, you're still left with a high penalty. Additionally most SMR's don't consider DF or redux in their resolution. So vs maneuvers like crawler burrows, squares are now much worse off. For well over a decade this shoe was on the other foot, and pures hated nothing more than a roa'ter, but today the pure is better vs SMR's. The square on the other hand is far better off vs CMAN's. You win some you lose some I guess.

[Buckwheet]

The CvA of plate certainly does help, however from experience I can tell you that even wearing plate and glowing with all available spells minus things like 219, my warrior was still able to be warded and there were plenty of spells even being in HCP plate that hurt.

[Manamethis]

Every class needs armor. I think it should be the same cost no matter the ASG. 7x HCP is one price for all, 10x MCP is one price for all. For all! for All!

[Fallen]

That's silly. I could see the argument made for enchant, but padding just isn't worth as much on plate as it is on leathers, and rogues aside, TD isn't worth as much on leathers as it is on plate.

[Archigeek]

That's silly. I could see the argument made for enchant, but padding just isn't worth as much on plate as it is on leathers, and rogues aside, TD isn't worth as much on leathers as it is on plate.

Ding ding ding!

The good news is that ensorcellment is going to make a lot of squares happy. Particularly because it stacks.

[Fallen]

Ding ding ding!

The good news is that ensorcellment is going to make a lot of squares happy. Particularly because it stacks.

Squares are OP! No more other-cast spells!

[Donquix]

Plate wearers are also already paying substantially more TPs to wear that armor, and the class is balanced around it. it's not like every class can be like "well, i'm gonna wear plate now. it's the natural next step up"

it's a dumb, antiquated relic from when hitting level 20 was an achievement of a lifetime and not something you did during your first 30 day migration period and being able to get up high enough to wear plate WAS a luxury, not a core mechanic of your class.

[Fallen]

Updated the second post with this Q/A:

>>... say I have some pretty 6x armor with no special properties but have a good amount of premium points available. Say again, I get lucky enough to win some padding. Could I feasibly cash in the points to get my 6x armor padded heavy, at the same time the merchant then bumps me up another +10 points all in one transaction?

Sadly, no, this won't be something we can offer. Opens Pandora's Box.

[Tgo01]

Updated the second post with this Q/A:

>>... say I have some pretty 6x armor with no special properties but have a good amount of premium points available. Say again, I get lucky enough to win some padding. Could I feasibly cash in the points to get my 6x armor padded heavy, at the same time the merchant then bumps me up another +10 points all in one transaction?

Sadly, no, this won't be something we can offer. Opens Pandora's Box.

Sounds like a job for Simucoins!

[wandererjs]

I am really hoping to do a few runs of BSC before and score some of the padded armor to get worked on. That seems like the most economical route since I only have plain 4x gear.

Can someone remind me what kind of attack crawlers do most often? ?

rift crawlers?

Slashing attacks. Most. Definitely. Slashing.

[drunksolo]

In regards to high AG vs low AG and the benefit of crit padding, keep in mind that crit padding won't reduce the end result to lower than a rank 1, which always results in a wound. If you're getting hit with high enough end rolls to cause rank 5+ crits in plate, you're doing something very, very wrong. The vast majority of hits are going to either be rank 0 plinks or rank 1 or 2 crits for a minor. Which renders the padding moot.

The real benefit of padding for plate wearers is the reduction of wounds from all of the things that completely ignore the DF and crit divisors of wearing plate, which, considering that the penalties are not ignored, means that every character of every training is always better in lighter armor than heavier against SMR attacks and CMAN attacks.*

And that makes the enormous price differences bad.

*Aside from a very small number (1 or 2 I think) of CMANs that are negated by certain ASGs.

[Fallen]

>>Here is a question Wyrom, if heavy armors cost more because they protect better, then why don't THW and Polearms cost more for enchants/flares, since they hit harder?


Flares have a standard pricing chart. But THW and polearms WILL cost more to weight. So you're spot on with that observation.


.

[msconstrew]

I don't know how this will format, but here goes:


Here are some random responses that I had to get clarified that were asked.

>>Self Charging Item Creation Spell List

Offensive Buffs
117 Spirit Strike
211 Bravery
506 Haste
509 Strength
1706 Flaming aura
1711 Mystic Focus
513 Elemental Focus
606 Phoen's Strength

Defensive Buffs
202 Spirit Shield
303 Prayer of Protection
414 Elemental Defense
503 Thurfel's Ward
508 Elemental Bias
602 Resist Elements
611 Mass Colors
905 Prismatic Guard
911 Mass Blur
1204 Foresight
1208 Mindward
1215 Blink
613 Self Control
913 Melgorehn's Aura

>>Reducing Properties

Removing properties such as enchants is not an approved service at this time.

>>Wand Bows

Wand bows can be worked on.

>>DB Enchanting

For the DB creation service, you may enchant a DB item of yours, instead of making a new DB item that is +5. Ear, ears, socks, under garment, in hair, and pin worn are not approved locations for both creation and enchanting. Please note, DB items cannot be enchanted via the enchanting service, only by the specific DB service.

[Archigeek]

In regards to high AG vs low AG and the benefit of crit padding, keep in mind that crit padding won't reduce the end result to lower than a rank 1, which always results in a wound. If you're getting hit with high enough end rolls to cause rank 5+ crits in plate, you're doing something very, very wrong. The vast majority of hits are going to either be rank 0 plinks or rank 1 or 2 crits for a minor. Which renders the padding moot.

The real benefit of padding for plate wearers is the reduction of wounds from all of the things that completely ignore the DF and crit divisors of wearing plate, which, considering that the penalties are not ignored, means that every character of every training is always better in lighter armor than heavier against SMR attacks and CMAN attacks.*

And that makes the enormous price differences bad.

*Aside from a very small number (1 or 2 I think) of CMANs that are negated by certain ASGs.

Feel free to post this to the officials. I've been trying to get this point across, and I think it's finally sinking in. Heavy armor is no longer better vs SMRs. It is in fact, worse in almost all cases.

[Jarvan]

Is it me, or is the self chargers list very weak?

I see 2 spells I would like, thats it.

[msconstrew]

Bravery and Phoen's Strength?

[Jarvan]

Screw bravery, potions are cheap.

Pheon's and maybe blink.

[Androidpk]

Blink is kind of weak. I can power hunt on my monk all day long and see it flare once. I think phoens or self control would be best.

[Archigeek]

They're also 7x/day, which is quite a lot of charges for a self-charger and more than most items. I think there are some pretty good ones in there, but with some obvious ommissions.

[Jarvan]

Blink is kind of weak. I can power hunt on my monk all day long and see it flare once. I think phoens or self control would be best.

Well, I have access to unlimited Self control on my bard, so no need for that. I do have a MR Pheons.. but a self charging wouldn't be bad.

I was hoping to see cloak of shadows. Heroism of course.. tho I knew that wasn't likely.

But.. didn't wyrom say there were some 7x and some 5x?

[msconstrew]

I'm confused why they have mass colors instead of also having plain 601 as an option. If it's a square getting it, maybe they don't have enough mana to spare to do mass colors.

[Jarvan]

I'm confused why they have mass colors instead of also having plain 601 as an option. If it's a square getting it, maybe they don't have enough mana to spare to do mass colors.

self charging doesnt use mana.

[msconstrew]

Oh really! Well, that answers that question.

[Moonwitch]

Is it me, or is the self chargers list very weak?

I see 2 spells I would like, thats it.

Phoens, self control...I really would have liked to have seen cloak of shadows on there. Some of the wizard's self cast wouldn't be bad but in order to get a good benefit from you need to know wizard spell ranks. Phoen's would be my number one choice.

[Jarvan]

Phoens, self control...I really would have liked to have seen cloak of shadows on there. Some of the wizard's self cast wouldn't be bad but in order to get a good benefit from you need to know wizard spell ranks. Phoen's would be my number one choice.

Pheon's would be a lot of people's first choice.

Self control would likely be second.

[crb]

Two bad they don't have heroism.

513 is very nice for bolting clerics/sorcerers/empaths. 913 is not imbeddable though does show up on scrolls (seemingly more frequently than 613). Those new mental spells might also be reasonable options.

[Fallen]

Okay.


Vultite MBP - 1.2m for HCP. About 2.6m for MCP. And about 4.1m for ECP.


Also, for those calling ECP as ExCP that's a tad confusing. The chart goes...


Lightly
Fairly
Somewhat
Decent
Heavy
Very Heavy
Exceptional
Masterful
Superb
Expert
Phenomenal
Fantastic
Incredible
Wondrous


So Ex definitely feels better as Expertly!






~Wyrom, SGM
Quests
Platinum
Promotions



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[Fallen]

Two updates here:



Nope, Blink and Rotating Flares are both scripts, so that's incompatible.

I'll be around most of the weekend to offer removal services, including many scripted flares and will make an effort to attend all the major drawings where it would be desirable. But again, I can't make any promises about being there for any specific service on any given run.




>>Does that apply to the 'super' bubble flares as well, or can you take a weapon with existing regular bubble flares to super?

I can take a weapon with regular bubble flares up to "super." It will count as "super" so I'm only doing 2 of those per run, no matter if they start at nothing or at regular bubble flares.

I cannot take anything up higher than super bubble flares.

~Just Jainna

[Fallen]

Two more updates:



Permabless doesn't always come accompanied with holy water flares. Sometimes they have nothing else, other than the ability to hit undead.

The (Undead) banes just give a specific ability against a certain creature or group of creatures. Flares and weighting are one thing, but they could also give you addition AS, or even let you parry more. Banes only give that ability against that creature type. So essentially, what we're offering at RtCF as undead bane is definitely a step up from permabless because you can take a lot of pre-existing weapons and make them much better, but not all banes are set up the same. So another event, you might see a bane that seems much different or crippled to what we're offering here.

~Wyrom, SGM




>I mainly mean the non Major-type script unlockings.


I can play this game!


I'm going to the picnic, and I'm bringing:


Merchant |Unlocking
Hkala - Thousand Cuts Two-Weapon Combat weapons
Hkala - Hilted Weapons
Joola - Joola Jewels
Joola - Laceable Underskirts
Orbele - Lover's Lockets
Orbele - Thelisa Jewelry Boxes
Orbele - Hair baubles




~Vanah

[Fallen]

A bunch more information on the Voln Armor. I'll try to keep the information related to availability/Compatability in this thread, with teaser type stuff in the other.



So, I got the allowed release numbers and, as promised, I'm sharing them with you! I will be releasing 10 Tier 2, 3 Tier 3, and 1 Tier 4 per run as MINOR services. I will also be able to add an unlimited number of Tier 1 level scripts to eligible armor. This is where we get to the tricky part. What is eligible armor?

First and foremost, the supplied armor must be entirely unscripted. No fusion, no scripted flares, no fluff scripts, no scripts of any kind. This is simply the only way it can work, as existing scripts are not compatible with this one. The second consideration is one of the existing properties of the armor. For the purpose of eligibility as it relates to this script, the final item AFTER the script has been applied shall not exceed 70 item property points, with points be calculated in the following manner:


VolnArmor Script Tier 1 = 0 points, Tier 2 = 5 points, Tier 3 = 10 points, and Tier 4 = 15 points.
Enchant Level - 1 Point per point of Enchantment. 4x (+20) = 20 points, 7x (+35) = 35 points, and so on and so forth.
Common Flares - 5 points. Common Flares include Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, and Vacuum.
Uncommon Flares -15 points. Uncommon Flares include Disintegrate, Disruption, Unbalance, Grapple, Plasma, and Steam.
Padding - 2 point per point of padding. Somewhat (+5) = 10 points, Heavy (+10) = 20 points, and so on and so forth.
TD - 2 points per point of TD. +10 TD = 20 points, +15 TD = 30 points, and so on and so forth.



Examples: 10x armor with Tier 4 scripts, total points = 65 | 7x heavily padded armor with Tier 4 scripts, total points = 70 | 10x heavily padded armor with Tier 1 scripts, total points = 70 | 4x armor with uncommon flares and Tier 2 scripts, total points = 40 | 7x with +15 TD and Tier 2 scripts, total points = 70

Additionally, armor with this script will NOT automatically be ineligible for other applicable services. The same thresholds for item property points would be applied to determine eligibility. For example, if you had 7x armor with Tier 2 scripts (40 points) you could add another enchantment (+5 points), or add heavy padding (+20 points). The resulting item would simply need to come in at or below 70 item property points.

GM Reidyn - MHO Guru




1. Kroderine, Adamantine, and Zelnorn would be eligible, but the rare material-based flares would weigh in at 20 points.
2. Resistances will be considered, with each percentage point of damage reduction contributing 1 item property point.
3. CreatureBane will be considered, where the bane ability will contribute half the normal points (rounded up) as the ability would normally contribute. Common flares = 3 points, Uncommon Flares = 8, Heavy Padding = 10, and so on and so forth.


I am, as of yet, undecided on distribution methods or what cost will be associated when applying this script to existing armors. As far as the point system goes, I am not the creator or designer of it... I am merely relaying the info to you. Similar guidelines are in place for services, but the specifics of what is and is not allowed can and will change from one event to the next, and in some cases from one service to the next - so please don't take any of this as gospel for anything other than this armor script.




>> I guess the question I am trying to ask is would this be considered a functional combat script for us non-Volners who just want the awesome-sauce fluff scripts. Im assuming the answer is yes, and I need to debate whether it is worth it or not.

Yes, it would be considered a functional script even if its not intended to be used by a member of the Order of Voln. Without having the armor attune to a specific character, which isn't anything anyone would want I'd wager, there is nothing to prevent you (general you) from passing it off to a member of the Order at which point all the mechanical benefits would come into play.




Only 1 Tier 4 will go out per run. If you were to win a Tier 3 service, I would either apply the script to eligible armor at Tier 3 (bypassing Tiers 1 & 2) or unlock existing armor to Tier 3, regardless of the tier prior to unlocking.

[Archigeek]

I get the feeling that if people didn't want such explicit answers to the "can you work on this?" questions, more stuff would be eligible.

My suggestion is that if what you have isn't explicitly addressed, don't ask... though it's probably too late now, as just about everything has been nailed down and any hope for wiggle room anywhere has been squeezed out.

Winners: people with middle enchant armor with some hcp or better padding who win more padding. It will be very cheap relative to lesser padding on high enchant armor.
Losers: those who spent PPs enchanting their armor. Oops, you're premium perk has made you ineligible for further work. Sorry.

[Fallen]

I definitely think there is some merit to that view, A. I imagine people just want to know which majors they should be chasing from the get go, rather than holding out for a service for which they have no chance of being eligible.

[Archigeek]

I definitely think there is some merit to that view, A. I imagine people just want to know which majors they should be chasing from the get go, rather than holding out for a service for which they have no chance of being eligible.

True for sure. But it's also true that by asking, you're providing an opportunity to say no. And memorialized no's are a lot harder to change to yesses down the road.

[Androidpk]

So you are saying people shouldn't ask?..

[Archigeek]

Maybe. Dunno. It will be interesting to see how the first run goes.

[prance1520]

The special metals question came from a few of us trying to determine if abilities like that of Kroderine were added to the item itself, or if all of those abilities are properties of the metal coded elsewhere, leaving the combat script field of the armor empty. With how fast the answer came back, I'm kind of assuming she already had it handy, but who knows.

I agree with Kerl on the points structure being unbalanced and punishing to those who did work on their armor before. If you never want Voln armor with more than 70 points, don't let it get PP enchanted or anything past 70 points. If your ok with going over 70 points in the future from PP, let it be added to items with over 70 points, just put a huge coin tax on every point past 70. I'm all for heavy taxes on extremely powerful gear, I'm against shutting it out from service completely.

[Fallen]

I'm all for heavy taxes on extremely powerful gear, I'm against shutting it out from service completely.

Agreed. Isn't it the point of RtCF to upgrade powerful gear not normally able to be improved? I suppose it is simply because the service is brand new that they're still working out what is acceptable.

[Archigeek]

I just find it frustrating when they're tossing out several new methods of restricting service, at an event that is billed as a service event.

For example, zelnorn, which already pays an enchant penalty in that it splits enchant between offense and defense, now also has to pay an additional penalty. And here I thought only being enchantable to 5x was already enough of a penalty, (enough so that no one has yet brought a set to 5x). It's hard to navigate when the mines keep moving around. Prior to last CCF, there had been a limit to total enchant +TD. That limit was a combined 10x. At CCF they tossed that out and changed everything and allowed TD to be added on 10x items even. When they change things, we make adjustments to what we're doing, and what we plan to do. Now they've changed the rules again and we're stuck.

The same goes for this rediculous over-charging for work on items with high enchants. Woe be to those of you who took a set of 8x armor to 10x with PPs, as you now either can't afford to pad it or can't justify the 200m expense... when the cost would have been 50m if you'd just left it and done the enchant later. You also probably can't get the voln armor scripts added, etc. You're done.

The consolation prize statement "bring a backup to have worked on" is grumble-worthy. Working on backup armor/weapons/gear does not get one excited about an event such as this. It's a sucky answer.

[Slit-eye]

"Bring a back up" is a cop out. We can't wear two sets of armor. We have what we love, and we want to love it more. "Bring a back up" does nothing but contribute to a "buy the service sell the product" concept that also no longer works because of a price chart that's all out of whack.

[m444w]

I just find it frustrating when they're tossing out several new methods of restricting service, at an event that is billed as a service event.

For example, zelnorn, which already pays an enchant penalty in that it splits enchant between offense and defense, now also has to pay an additional penalty. And here I thought only being enchantable to 5x was already enough of a penalty, (enough so that no one has yet brought a set to 5x). It's hard to navigate when the mines keep moving around. Prior to last CCF, there had been a limit to total enchant +TD. That limit was a combined 10x. At CCF they tossed that out and changed everything and allowed TD to be added on 10x items even. When they change things, we make adjustments to what we're doing, and what we plan to do. Now they've changed the rules again and we're stuck.

The same goes for this rediculous over-charging for work on items with high enchants. Woe be to those of you who took a set of 8x armor to 10x with PPs, as you now either can't afford to pad it or can't justify the 200m expense... when the cost would have been 50m if you'd just left it and done the enchant later. You also probably can't get the voln armor scripts added, etc. You're done.

The consolation prize statement "bring a backup to have worked on" is grumble-worthy. Working on backup armor/weapons/gear does not get one excited about an event such as this. It's a sucky answer.

I hope someone that can make decisions reads this. They are doing pricing considerably wrong & lazy, and justifying it as a silver drain.

They are alienating their older more casual player base that doesn't spend cash for silvers, or has nice things merely because of playing for 25 years.

There are plenty of ways to drain silver that make more sense (why only only silver recharging one week per year?)

To me, it's a hollow fluff answer that sounds good, but is a functional fallacy.

[thefarmer]

I just find it frustrating when they're tossing out several new methods of restricting service, at an event that is billed as a service event.

For example, zelnorn, which already pays an enchant penalty in that it splits enchant between offense and defense, now also has to pay an additional penalty.

What's the additional penalty?

[Archigeek]

Read the post on exotic metals and voln armor. 20 points I think it was. I guess if they don't also count the AS side of the enchant then it's not too terrible, but I bet they count that and the penalty.

[thefarmer]

Read the post on exotic metals and voln armor. 20 points I think it was. I guess if they don't also count the AS side of the enchant then it's not too terrible, but I bet they count that and the penalty.

Right. It has a surcharge for being Zelnorn. There's always been a surcharge for these type of fancy metals. How is this different or any more severe?

edit: Reading back... I think I see now.

Your position is that the properties that make it zelnorn are already a penalty. Which would be penalty #1. And having a surcharge towards being a fancy combat scripted metal is penalty #2. I don't really agree. To me that's like saying because you use TD armor, you can't get flares or padding, so that's a penalty for owning it.

[m444w]

Read the post on exotic metals and voln armor. 20 points I think it was. I guess if they don't also count the AS side of the enchant then it's not too terrible, but I bet they count that and the penalty.

I like the point system of costs, it at least makes sense and is structured on some level besides whatever/whoever feels like making whatever rules up in regards to everything else.

My post was more about the general cost of improvements on a whole.

[Archigeek]

I was refering to whomever said they didn't see what the penalty was for exotic metals. I think it was farmer. I think that paying both sides of the enchant is plenty of penalty for zelnorn, though others may disagree. In any case, it's nothing like flaring metals such as kroderine or coraesine. Zelnorn is pretty much a straight up math exercise.

[Fallen]

A few updates with times for services.




This will be the schedule that I am hoping to follow. Basically, I'll start with the Soul Bow auction at 9:30 and continue until I'm finished with the rune tattoo winners early Saturday morning. Then, the sorc(erers) who are interested in uncommon runes can wake up with me at 9:00 AM. These times are all EASTERN and start Friday, June 7th. Locations will be given in game.




Time Service Auction Raffle Spinner Category
9:30 PM Soul Bow 1 N/A N/A Major
10:00 PM Padding 4 4 2 Major
11:00 PM Resistances 4 4 2 Major
12:00 AM Self Chargers (offensive) 2 2 1 Major
12:30 AM DB Items 1 1 N/A Major
1:00 AM Rune Tattoos 1 1 1 Minor
9:00 AM Uncommon Sorc Runes 3 3 3 Minor






DISCLAIMER These are the times I am shooting for, however they may be off by a few minutes, give or take. Should something unforeseen happen (crash or delay), I will update this post with new times.

<<I'm not sure if this has been answered before, but do you need to be level 25+ to learn the uncommon sorc(erer) runes?>>

Yes. Level 25 minimum.

<<If a Service has an auction a raffle and a spinner... is the auction going to go first? Or can we do the spinner and raffle first then auction last?>>

The raffles will almost always go first, because those are set up beforehand. As for spinners and auctions, I'll probably switch off between the two, but will most likely end with an auction. That way, there isn't a mass exodus of people after the last spin, potentially causing lag or worse. If the auction is last, those who do not wish to participate in the auction can leave at their leisure.







Hey all,

This service will be raffled off 2-3 hours into the first evening of the festival (Friday). I will post here AND send out an announcement in the festival grounds shortly after the raffle is set up with location and a more precise drawing time. So if this is a service you're interested in, hopefully this helps you plan a little bit!

~Kaikala

[Tsk Tsk]

Ugh, I guess I should start staying up later the next couple of days in anticipation. I'm lame and go to bed early :(

[Fallen]

Ugh, I guess I should start staying up later the next couple of days in anticipation. I'm lame and go to bed early :(

It definitely seems like this is NOT the weekend to try to catch up your sleeping.