NBA Playoffs

[Latrinsorm]

First Round

Eastern Conference
Milwaukee at Miami
Boston at Knicks
Atlanta at Indy
Chicago at Brooklyn

Western Conference
Houston at OKC
Lakers at San Antonio
Golden State at Denver
Memphis at Clippers

Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait!!!

[thefarmer]

As long as the beard isn't blown out every game by OKC, I'll take it.

Also fuck the Lakers for making us play them versus the Spurs. We could have won that series at least. :(

[Keller]

East

Miami in 3
NYK in 4
Indy in 4
Chicago in 5

Miami in 5
Indy in 5

Indy in 6

West

OKC in 3
Lakers in 5
GS in 4
Memphis in 5

OKC in 5
Memphis in 6

OKC in 7

Championship

OKC in 5

[Drew]

I knew when I saw 1 person in the poll had picked "other" it had to be Keller. He loves being contrary.

EDIT: Although Miami in 3 is pretty impressive.

[Keller]

Is the first round best of 7 now? I honestly haven't paid much attention to the NBA since like 2000.

[Keller]

And, as Latrin predicted, Indiana is going to hurt your roleplayers (ie Wade and Bosh).

[Latrinsorm]

Is the first round best of 7 now? I honestly haven't paid much attention to the NBA since like 2000.Since 2003, and in that very year Tracy McGrady's Magic went up 3-1 on the #1 seed Pistons before losing 4-3, and his team would never win a 1st round playoff series (until this year?). Meanwhile, because Dirk is soft, the Mavs went up 3-0 on the Blazers before finally winning 4-3.

Also, OKC would play Memphis in your second round.

[DoctorUnne]

The Knicks are going fo' fo' fo'

[DoctorUnne]

But in all seriousness

OKC in 4
SA in 6
GS in 7
MEM in 7

MIA in 4
NYK in 4
IND in 6
CHI in 6

OKC in 6
SA in 5

MIA in 4
NYK in 6

OKC in 5
NYK in 7

OKC in 5

[Latrinsorm]

If I can just say to the good Doctor and preemptively to everyone else who picks the Knicks over the Heat: what has fundamentally changed for the Knicks since last year?

1. Amare is out for the whole series instead of comically injuring himself halfway through.
2. Lala doesn't have a Honey Nut Cheerios endorsement deal, but it's a lot more inexplicable now.
3. Carmelo has grossly exaggerated his usage rate and other measures of possession use, which is better against a dominant on-ball Miami defense how?
4. J.R. Smith is even hotter when he's hot and even notter when he's not.

Ok Go.

[Latrinsorm]

Loathe as I am to encourage Keller's bull squash, here are the teams for which winning the championship would be historically precedented:

Heat
Knicks
Thunder
Spurs
(top 2 seeds from each conference)
Pacers
Rockets
(losing record in close games)

That's it. May I remind you, dear reader, that this system is 63-0, and does not explicitly take beards into account. (Also, the Rockets are already one of 5 franchises to win the title by being in the second but not first group, in 1995. The others are the 2007 Spurs, 1978 Bullets, 1977 Trailblazers, 1969 Celtics.)

.

My picks:

Heat (5)
Knicks (7)
Pacers (5)
Nets (7)

Thunder (6)
Spurs (5)
Nuggets (4)
Grizzlies (5)

Heat (5)
Pacers (6)

Thunder (7)
Nuggets (7)

Heat (5)
Thunder (6)

Heat (5)

[DoctorUnne]

I haven't watched a lot of Knicks games, but JR Smith is very hot right now, Felton is better than Lin (I think), and they're shooting 38% from three as a team this year on 29 attempts per game vs. 34% last year on 23 attempts per game. All they need to do is get red hot from three for a few games or injure LeBron and Miami is toast. Plus it's fun to pick against the Heat.

[DoctorUnne]

Having said that I'll be at game 1 tomorrow rooting as hard as I can for the Celtics. Debating whether or not to dress as the honey nut cheerios bee

[Latrinsorm]

I haven't watched a lot of Knicks games, but JR Smith is very hot right now, Felton is better than Lin (I think), and they're shooting 38% from three as a team this year on 29 attempts per game vs. 34% last year on 23 attempts per game. All they need to do is get red hot from three for a few games or injure LeBron and Miami is toast. Plus it's fun to pick against the Heat.Ready for a crazy stat? If we gave the Knicks +9.6 points (.38*29-.34*23) in every game of last year's series, they still would have lost in 5.
Having said that I'll be at game 1 tomorrow rooting as hard as I can for the Celtics. Debating whether or not to dress as the honey nut cheerios beeTake pictures for the outfit thread!!!

[Geijon Khyree]

Wade, the 4th best per in the league is considered a roleplayer? Indiana does worse than last year

[Geijon Khyree]

Knicks are good shooters but have essentially no defense. Chandler rebounds to extend chances but they arent a real threat in the playoffs where teams really pick up their defense.

[DoctorUnne]

That was last year's Knicks. This year's Knicks are 3-1 against Miami. I can't believe I'm arguing for a NY team.

[Latrinsorm]

Season series has always been pointless. Miami was 1-3 against Boston last year and won in 7 without Bosh for 4.5 games, 1-1 against OKC and won in 5, 1-3 against Boston two years ago and won in 5, 0-3 against Chicago two years ago and won in 5.

As for last year vs. this year, the Knicks are in fact much worse on defense this year. Their 101 DRtg last year was good for fifth, right behind Miami. This year they're at 106.3, 18th in the league. Their offense has gotten better more than their defense has gotten worse, but still. It's also worth looking into which areas have changed on the defensive end: they force turnovers and foul about the same and actually rebound better, it's their FG% allowed that's killing them... and Miami is by far and away the best shooting team in the league. Numbers don't mean a sweep, but numbers always catch up to you sooner or later.

[SHAFT]

The one time Miami played NY at full strength it was in NY and Miami won. Season series don't mean much. Does anyone think NY is really beating Miami? Carmelo has to hit 40+ every game to beat Miami.

[Androidpk]

Obvious fan but is obvious.

[Latrinsorm]

That was last year's Knicks. This year's Knicks are 3-1 against Miami. I can't believe I'm arguing for a NY team.And I can't believe I'm arguing for a Boston team against you, but I am surprised how little chance people are giving the Celtics. It's as if they (not you, obviously) stopped paying attention once Rondo went down, except it turned out the team got better after that. With Amare out the Knicks have major issues with size, and if Boston has anything it is that, and skilled size at that. Just look at the 9 man rotation so far today, the only true bigs are Chandler and Martin, who are and were fine players respectively but are both somewhat hurt. Then look at the AST ratios: 15 of 20 for Boston, 7 of 18 for NY, led from the rear with Melo's fabulous 15 FGA to 0 assists. Keep isolating, baby.

If I can be preemptively annoyed by something, I will be annoyed by the people putting this possible win on Boston's spirit and rallying in the face of tragedy and etc. How about Carmelo is (still) a terrible team player, Kevin Garnett is (still) an all-time great, Woodson is (still) a terrible coach, New York is (still) a jump shooting team.

I do expect the Knicks to win, but I could see them losing (which would be just delightful) and can definitely see them having to work for it, and this is part of why I think Miami will have such an easy time with them. They play the same sort of overload defense that Boston does, and while they don't have Kevin Garnett to clean up mistakes, they do have LeBron and Wade on the perimeter. They are also dramatically more dangerous on offense.

[Androidpk]

And I can't believe I'm arguing for a Boston team against you, but I am surprised how little chance people are giving the Celtics. It's as if they (not you, obviously) stopped paying attention once Rondo went down, except it turned out the team got better after that. With Amare out the Knicks have major issues with size, and if Boston has anything it is that, and skilled size at that. Just look at the 9 man rotation so far today, the only true bigs are Chandler and Martin, who are and were fine players respectively but are both somewhat hurt. Then look at the AST ratios: 15 of 20 for Boston, 7 of 18 for NY, led from the rear with Melo's fabulous 15 FGA to 0 assists. Keep isolating, baby.

If I can be preemptively annoyed by something, I will be annoyed by the people putting this possible win on Boston's spirit and rallying in the face of tragedy and etc. How about Carmelo is (still) a terrible team player, Kevin Garnett is (still) an all-time great, Woodson is (still) a terrible coach, New York is (still) a jump shooting team.

I do expect the Knicks to win, but I could see them losing (which would be just delightful) and can definitely see them having to work for it, and this is part of why I think Miami will have such an easy time with them. They play the same sort of overload defense that Boston does, and while they don't have Kevin Garnett to clean up mistakes, they do have LeBron and Wade on the perimeter. They are also dramatically more dangerous on offense.

Says the person who has neglected to include the Celtics in his playoff old two years in a row. The fact that you did it again this year after what happened on Monday makes you a giant cunt.

[Latrinsorm]

It's nothing personal, and I am honestly a little hurt by your criticism.

I have described on numerous occasions why getting one of the top 2 seeds is by far the most relevant indicator of championship success. I wanted to get the poll in ASAP and didn't have time to do the "close games are stupid, stupid" analysis, so I only included them.

As for last year, if I may reiterate: "Look. It took me two tries to get the poll at all. Cut me some slack, Jack and Jacqueline." and also the Celtics had a winning record in close games and did not have one of the top 2 seeds. No team has ever won the championship with that combination. Even only looking at the field of 16 era ('84-present), we're talking 0 for 348. You more than anyone (more than anyone) should know that the space where I should have a soul is occupied by an intricate array of numbers, my going with the 0-348 sounds very much like something I would do.

[Androidpk]

Oh really. Go fuck yourself.

[Latrinsorm]

:(

Fair warning, if you show up at the NYC gathering my subconscious will at first flash an eager excited smile, then I will remember this exchange, then I will start intermittently sobbing, and I will make it awkward for everyone, and it will be all your fault.

[Latrinsorm]

No hey but look, sportsfans, I dreamed diethx was similarly cruel to me (although her being so cruel as to declare that I am not impartial vis a vis the success of various playoff teams is clearly impossible) and seriously how do you use a spoon to fling tears at someone? The terminal velocity would be pathetic, even taking into account that you made way for a fighter pilot.

[Showal]

:(

Fair warning, if you show up at the NYC gathering my subconscious will at first flash an eager excited smile, then I will remember this exchange, then I will start intermittently sobbing, and I will make it awkward for everyone, and it will be all your fault.

This is actually an amazing threat.

[msconstrew]

If Latrin was a real champion, he could make it awkward without the threat of tears.

[Drew]

I'm sorry Bo Jackson,
Bron is fo real,
Never injured like the other guys,
He apologized to Cleveland zero times.

[Latrinsorm]

Bosh has been flirting with the 3 over the past two years (.314 on corner 3s this year). He's already brutal on defenses by hitting the long 2 better than anyone in the league, if he can hit 3s at even 35% it's all over (and it was already over). Battier neutralized Ibaka that way in the Finals, if the defensively credible lineup of Chalmers-Wade-James-Battier-Bosh can all hit 3s (or cut well in Wade's case) how can you get any rim protection? If you have no rim protection against James and Wade... yikes!

Kobe tweeting illustrates so perfectly why he and his treatment by the media are so frustrating. Kobe had 78 games to set up Dwight and Gasol in the post and absolutely refused to, even though when you take him off the court he acknowledges how that is clearly the smart play and even berates his team for not doing so are you kidding me??? Does he get criticized for either the on court or off court shenanigans? Of course not.

[DoctorUnne]

Numbers don't mean a sweep, but numbers always catch up to you sooner or later.

They don't have to catch up with you in a seven game series. I don't think the Knicks are a better team than Miami, but they have the kind of high variability offense that makes it more likely than your average team of equal skill to pull an upset. Add in the home crowd and how well Melo/JR have been playing lately and I think it's certainly plausible, if not likely.

For that same reason I also think Boston has a legit chance at beating the Knicks. Just need them to go cold from three, which they obviously weren't in game one. Also need Jeff Green to believe in himself more - he is REALLY good on offense when he plays aggressive.

[Latrinsorm]

I mentioned briefly (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?76285-NBA-2013-Season-Thread-for-NBA-Talking&p=1481125#post1481125) in December that LeBron was the best spot-up shooter in the young NBA season as measured by Synergy Sports. Where did he end up?

Well, not 1st. And no lower than 3rd. And almost definitely 3rd. It's tricky because Synergy doesn't publish tables, you have to check person by person. It's also tricky because if a player (e.g. Jose Calderon) is traded mid-season but still qualifies for a given category (by having 26+ possessions in it), they can be rated twice in that category, as Jose is (1st and 3rd). Hence, LeBron's "4th" ranking is really higher, but probably 3rd because his PPP of 1.36 is less than Calderon of Canada's 1.38 "3rd" which is in turn less than whoever is at 2nd...

...but for the life of me I cannot find who is 2nd, and that's not the only spot in the top 10 I can't find. So far I have:


1 - Calderon: 1.5
2 - :
3 - James: 1.36
4 - :
5 - Nash: 1.34
6 - :
7 - Korver: 1.33
8 - Curry: 1.32
9 - :
10 - :
And that's it!!! Here are all the other names I've checked:
Anderson
Battier
Blake
Bonner
Bosh
Bryant
Carmelo
Chandler
Copeland
Daye
DGreen
Dirk
Dunleavy
Durant
Foye
Fredette
Hayward
Ilyasova
Ivey
KMart
Leonard
Mason
Miller
Novak
Paul
Ray Allen
Sefolosha
Thompson
Watson
Webster
WGreenThat's the top 20 in 3P%, the 28 guys with 25+ 3PAs and .410+ 3P%, and a couple other random guys, and the closest I got was Novak 13 (really 12), then Allen/Battier/Blake tied at 14 (really 13). Unfortunately for the purposes of this analysis Synergy continues to update through the postseason, so compiling every player will have to wait until after the championship. It's frustrating and I'm open to suggestions on people I missed.

We still have two takeaways, though:
1. It wasn't a fluke, James has really made himself into a spot-up shooter. (46.1% on 3s, 75% on 2s.)
2. We all knew Calderon could shoot, but holy crap Calderon can shoot. When he comes off that contract he is going to make a huge difference for a contender. I'd love to drop Allen for him, no defense either way but at least Calderon won't insist on those dreadful isolations Ray loves to run.

[Latrinsorm]

Quick note: the 75% figure suggested that they could be including certain dunks etc. in that figure, but I checked DeAndre Jordan (6 spot-ups) and Dwight Howard (14) so that's not it.

[SHAFT]

Westbrook is out! The landscape of the western conference has suddenly shifted. I think you could reasonably say the spurs are the favorite to make it out of the west eh?

[Drew]

Westbrook is out! The landscape of the western conference has suddenly shifted. I think you could reasonably say the spurs are the favorite to make it out of the west eh?

I think I would have rather played the Thunder than the Spurs. Probably not a good thing for the Heat.

[Atlanteax]

Westbrook is out! The landscape of the western conference has suddenly shifted. I think you could reasonably say the spurs are the favorite to make it out of the west eh?

Imagine if Kobe / Blake / Nash were all healthy for the Lakers' series against the Spurs, and finding out that they probably won't have to deal with OKC to win the conference.

[SHAFT]

Even Meeks is out

[DoctorUnne]

Would love to see Durant average 40 now

[Keller]

I think I would have rather played the Thunder than the Spurs. Probably not a good thing for the Heat.

Heat don't need to worry about who is coming out of the West.

[SHAFT]

No they do not. I don't believe they have to worry about anyone.

I suppose I shouldn't underestimate the clippers. They do have the best pg in the game.

[Drew]

Heat don't need to worry about who is coming out of the West.

I'm not worried per se. But I think the Spurs have a better chance of winning against the Heat. Thunder was like 10%, Spurs maybe 15% change of winning.

[Latrinsorm]

It's really bizarre to go from "he'll play tomorrow" to "knee surgery".

The Thunder will be fine. Westbrook brought a huge amount to the table but by needing a huge amount of touches to do so took a ton off. Now the offense can be focused on Durant: consider that Durant takes 10.4 10+ foot jumpers per game and gets 11.2 points out of them (before fouls), while Westbrook takes 9.9, gets 8.6, and draws way less fouls. Jackson is a better defender, which should be impossible due to Westbrook's incomprehensible athleticism but is nevertheless the case.
Imagine if Kobe / Blake / Nash were all healthy for the Lakers' series against the Spurs, and finding out that they probably won't have to deal with OKC to win the conference.Ahhh so frustrating. The Lakers never had a chance. The Spurs shot 37% in the first game and still blew them out, just stop. The Lakers were a mediocre team all year. Sure they were 8-2 over their last 10, but with the exception of a Maverick beat down they were all close wins, or put another way they got lucky. In the 5 of those games against playoff teams they were a total of -1 on points, they could just as easily have gone 1-4 as 4-1.
I'm not worried per se. But I think the Spurs have a better chance of winning against the Heat. Thunder was like 10%, Spurs maybe 15% change of winning.Like you say it's immaterial, but I would still rank OKC as a bigger threat because of their higher ceiling. When Westbrook is hitting jumpers, he actually is an elite offensive player, and that's hard to keep up with even for Miami. That he is on average an average shooter is why OKC wasn't a real threat, but as I say the ceiling was higher. I feel like the Spurs are always at their ceiling because they have a good coach and have had the same team for a thousand years.

[SHAFT]

Nate Robinson is going off right now

[Kembal]

well, the rockets have a shot at winning a game now. (hopefully tonight, since i'll be there)

[Latrinsorm]

The Bulls-Nets series is really setting basketball back 20 years, but at least no one will ever argue Deron Williams is an elite point guard ever again (wishful thinking).

[Latrinsorm]

Tirico said something tonight that struck me, after mentioning that LeBron is about to become the 5th player with 4+ MVPs in NBA history: that we're seeing LeBron at the apex of his game, mentally and physically... but what if we're not? We saw him decide to become a legitimate spot-up threat this year, what else could he just decide? 85% free throws? 60% from the field? Only McHale and Barkley have ever scored 25+ with 60%+, and he already holds the record for highest FG% with 100+ 3P makes (surpassing Stockton's .542 with .565). Gun for 72? 33? I don't see how he could get substantially better compared to this year, but I thought that last year too.

I am surprised at how little attention Carmelo's poor play is getting. He's averaging 33, but he's also averaging 4.5 rebounds, 1.0 assist, 4.3 turnovers, a usage rate in the 40s, and his +/- has been worse than the team's margin in every game but one. Overall he's sitting at +17, the Knicks are at +30. The rest of the starters: Felton +46, Shumpert +45, Chandler +36, then [Copeland +11 to +7 and Prigioni +21 to +23] or +33 to +30. Every Knick starting spot but Carmelo has a better +/- than the team. How are other star players doing in this playoffs by this metric I just made up now?

LeBron - +57 to +59
Steph Curry - +36 to +14(!)
Chris Paul - -27 to -9
Kevin Durant - +36 to +35
James Harden - -32 to -35
Paul George - +16 to +11

Spurs - Lakers has some results that seem interesting at first, but the repeated blowouts seem to skew things:
Tim Duncan +26, Tony Parker +37, Kawhi Leonard +32, Tiago Splitter +1, Danny Green +6 all to +64

Long story short (too late), I think Carmelo is assuming the recently vacated mantle of "look how many points he scores, he's great!".

.

Finally, lol Dwight. The least he could have done was tune up Tony Parker to get thrown out, hasn't he watched Laker basketball the past couple years?

[Latrinsorm]

Couple more thoughts on Dwight: finishes this postseason 16 for 36 from the free throw line - 44.4%. That seems (and is) really bad at first, but how does it stack up historically for people with that many or more free throw attempts? Well, Wilt did that or worse 5 different years, bottoming out at 38.0%. 3 for Shaq, worst 37.4%. Happened twice last year: Evans 42.5% and Splitter 37.2%. Happened a couple other times here and there, but the winner is Ben Wallace: 3 times, worst 27.3%. I mean...

But back to Dwight:
2009 reaches the Finals, DPOY.
2010 reaches ECF, DPOY.
2011 rises from 4th to 2nd place in the (admittedly farcical) 2011 MVP vote, DPOY.
2012 7th in MVP, 3rd in DPOY, has a major injury, team falls apart, generally acts the fool off the court, coach is fired, leaves ignominiously.
2013 finishes 14th in DPOY. Not safe to assume receives 0 MVP votes given the idiotic LA voters, but will get very few. Is arguably the main reason a team that finished 3rd with 5 playoff wins last year finished this year barely making the playoffs with 0 (because nobody will ever blame Kobe for anything).

Talk about your tail-spins.

[Drew]

Round 2 can't come quickly enough. Is it just me or is pretty much every series really boring?

[SHAFT]

Round 2 can't come quickly enough. Is it just me or is pretty much every series really boring?

Watch the Knicks vs celtics, warriors vs nuggets, nets vs bulls. All have been excellent.

[Latrinsorm]

So I was pretty sure the Thunder would be fine until I read Cardinal Lowe's recent article, including... "Again: Oklahoma City introduced some variety on Monday — more two-man stuff with Kevin Martin (somehow relegated to the bench in favor of both Jackson and Derek Fisher when the Thunder needed a game-tying hoop after a timeout on the last play of regulation)"

I failed to account for Brooks. The Thunder could easily lose their first round series now. I can only hope Brooks is by analogy as good an announcer as Collins.

[Androidpk]

Celtics making their comeback! Can they force a game 7?

[Latrinsorm]

Addendum: I didn't think Iverson's life could get more depressing after No Crossover. I was wrong: (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-04-19/sports/38666036_1_allen-iverson-sixers-nba-s)

Iverson stood during a divorce proceeding in Atlanta in 2012 and pulled out his pants pockets. “I don’t even have money for a cheeseburger,” he shouted toward his estranged wife, Tawanna, who then handed him $61.

“I just want to see him,” Croce said. “I don’t even know what he looks like.”

“I worry about him,” Larry Brown said. “A lot.”

But more than 600 pages of transcripts and court documents from the divorce proceeding suggest that spurts of questionable behavior during his career weren’t just layers to Iverson’s character. They were warning signs.

According to a bank statement submitted in the divorce, the couple’s checking account was overdrawn by more than $23,000 in July 2011. In a single day, $23,255.36 was deducted – at a diamond store, a hat shop, a steakhouse and a hotel.

“I love u,” Iverson wrote to [his wife] in a text message submitted in the divorce filing. “I miss your pretty face & I’m sorry! Ppl make mistakes!”

Earlier this year, Michel contacted Iverson. She’d heard about the divorce and wanted to know how he was doing. Fine, he told her, and she chose to believe him.

.

And this is in a sport where athletes aren't saddled with permanent brain damage (looking directly at you, football). Athletes make ridiculous millions of dollars, but they're still human beings, and as such they are pretty screwed up.

[DoctorUnne]

Smith said Tuesday he'd have been playing golf instead of practicing had he played in Game 4, and players wore black to the game Wednesday as if they were heading to the Celtics' "funeral."

J.R. Smith, back from his one-game suspension for elbowing Jason Terry with the Knicks way ahead late in Game 3, missed his first 10 shots and finished 3 of 14 for 14 points.

Suck it JR.

Boston had NY right where it wants them. Down 3-0 in a best of 7

[Latrinsorm]

Nothing (in basketball) would make me happier than the Celtics and Knicks beating the crap out of each other and being completely worn out when it comes time to play Miami. Bonus points for the increasingly contrived explanations Knick fans give for Carmelo having 20x as many touches as assists, not to mention JR Smith and Jason Terry being indistinguishable but vigorously denigrated by either fan base. Fight on, lads, fight on! Shane Battier's ridiculous mustache is waiting.

Also I saw an incredible graphic on Sportscenter this morning. The Knicks have won as many playoff games this year as they had won in the preceding 12. Ha! Ha! Isiah.

[Latrinsorm]

Also - Courtney Lee, how you lose your minutes to Terrence Williams? Bro had a negative 5.2 PER before tonight. Jordan Crawford I... I know how you lost your minutes.

[Atlanteax]

It was interesting watching Barkley and the others discuss how OKC was still expected to win, but that being minus Westbrook is *really* hurting OKC (who would had thought? Guess otherwise, it underestimated the pressure it keeps off Durant to be making offensive play after offensive play) ... and that OKC is having serious match-up problems when it comes to 'small ball'.

[Latrinsorm]

I think it's really overblown.

1. After the first game the teams have been very evenly matched, with an overall margin of 3 points (not per game, 3 points total). Remember that game 4 came within a missed Ibaka uncontested put-back of going OT. Westbrook's presence or absence has absolutely nothing to do with that - when a single play decides a game, it's a matter of luck. Sometimes the ball bounces one way, sometimes the other.

2. The Thunder's ORtg in games 3 through 5 is 109.3, Houston's is 111.5. OKC's offense has been very nearly as good (3.1 worse) as it was in the regular season, it's their defense that has fallen apart (8.9!!! worse), and Westbrook is not a good defender.

3. The Thunder not matching up well only has to do with Brooks being a bad coach. Inexplicably playing Fisher over Martin for the last 7 minutes of game 5 (dumb), or playing Collison only 6 minutes in game 5 total (unbelievably dumb), or in game 4 playing Martin the first 10.5 minutes, then going offense-defense with Sefolosha (smart), then leaving Sef in on offense with a timeout left (dumb).

[thefarmer]

If we (Houston) can play like we did for the next two games, we have a good shot of being the first to win being 0-3.

This reminds me. I need to buy a beard for game 6.

[Latrinsorm]

Don't remember what my predictions were, but I'd love wins from Celtics, Grizzlies, and Thunder (by 20). James Harden and the Beardettes will have next year, let's stamp out this "Westbrook really was good!" nonsense.

I like Paul a lot, which is why I want the Clippers to get bounced so he goes somewhere else as a FA. Somewhere with nice weather, near to his home/college, without an established star point guard, no state income tax to lessen the hit of a lower contract, championship pedigree, chance to play with an all-time great and reigning MVP... I have no idea if the Heat could possibly sign him, but COME ON that would be awesome, and none of us are ready for the Clippers to actually be better than the Lakers. In fact, here's the trade:

Paul for Chalmers, Miller, Jones, Lewis, Anthony. (Also re-sign Andersen.) Miller is still better than Allen, but they're not playing him anyway and he makes more so might as well throw him in. That gives Miami $16.9m to play with, $1.4m for Andersen on vet's minimum and Paul makes $15ishm a year. He only makes $17.7 this year, and between the tax thing and the endorsement bump from winning 9 straight titles he should be okay.

[thefarmer]

Red rover, red rover, send Chris Paul right over (to the Rockets)

[Latrinsorm]

66 combined halftime points in BOS-NY and IND-ATL. Yiiiiiikes.

[Atlanteax]

They need to invoke the mercy rule @ Boston.

More turnovers than field goals in the 4Q.

[Atlanteax]

LOLs, and after I say that, Boston just gets a bucket to make it 14 points in a row, and another NY turnover => bucket for 16

75-66 now...

WTF is going on ?!?

[Latrinsorm]

4Q NY starts up 22, goes up 26 with 9:48 remaining on a Shumpert two.

9:32 Smith missed 3
8:55 Carmelo missed 3
8:32 Kidd turnover
7:52 Carmelo missed layup
7:28 Smith turnover
7:20 Smith turnover
6:56 Felton turnover
6:39 Kidd turnover
6:16 Carmelo missed layup
6:11(?) Chandler missed putback
6:09 Chandler missed putback
5:48 Carmelo missed 3
5:20 Smith missed 21 footer

Knicks still up 6, Celtics with the ball.

5:09 Shumpert steal and layup, breaking a 4:43 game time Knicks scoring drought (which Shumpert was on the bench for 2m of) and a 20-0 Celtics run.

.

The Heat are going to sweep the Knicks if this performance is any indication. Just pathetic.

[SHAFT]

What a finish to the clippers vs grizzlies game.

The Knicks won't make it past the pacers.

[Geijon Khyree]

The Heat are just sitting there watching all these joke basketball franchises flounder saying feed me, feed me.

[Latrinsorm]

LeBron finishes one vote (http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9244504/lebron-james-miami-heat-1-vote-shy-unanimous-mvp-honor) shy of unanimous MVP. Okay, it's dumb but at least Durant was the best player on the other 1 seed and had a historically great shooting season...

...wait... CARMELO??? Are you KIDDING ME???

-LeBron played 9 more games and 1 more minute per game,
-had 2 less points, 1 more rebound, and 4.5(!) more assists per game,
-plays defense (c.f. 2nd place DPOY) (again). Fun fact: Carmelo has received 0 DPOY votes in his career, less than David Lee, Hedo Turkoglu, and Devin Harris,
-played on a team with a TWENTY SEVEN GAME WIN STREAK that finished 12 games ahead of Carmelo's team, and
-was a better jump shooter than Carmelo this year, with an effective field goal percentage of 52.6% to Carmelo's 48.7% on jump shots.

Okay so Carmelo was a less efficient scorer, worse shooter, worse rebounder, worse passer, and much worse defender, but what about his teammates? Well, Carmelo finished 0.2 win shares ahead of the second place player on his team (Chandler), 9.5 to 9.3. LeBron finished 9.7 ahead of Wade, 19.3 to 9.6. The gap between James and Wade was bigger than Melo's overall contribution.

Inexcusable. I have every faith in Bill Simmons to find out this idiot's identity so public shaming can commence.

[Latrinsorm]

With Carlesimo out more noise about Jackson returning somewhere in some way, and let me just say I am pretty terrified of the triangle featuring James Harden. It would also be pretty awesome for Lin to be benched by D'Antoni because D'Antoni is a dope, then Lin to be benched by Jackson because Jackson is a genius.

Speaking of New York coaches, I was looking at the Memphis-OKC box score and one thing Woody does deserve credit for is unleashing the kraken vis à vis the 3 pointer. It's a tough sell for traditionalists, but it's very clearly the way to go and it has optimized New York to a very significant degree, so kudos to Woodson for that. This ridiculous fantasy about him putting J.R. in a Pokéball, not so much.

[Drew]

It's just mind blowing that someone could vote for him for any other reason than "Screw you LeBron/Miami"

[Latrinsorm]

Carmelo 35 for his last 110, 31.8%, 2.5 assists per game. MVP! MVP! MVP! I know what you're thinking: "Lartronsom, you dopamine-addle-addict, you're just cherry picking." Bro, both of those stats got even worse after this most recent game. "Latinstorm, you libtardouche, LeBron is just as bad against Boston and Jeff Saturday." LeBron averaged 54.1% (72 of 133) and 6.7 in the regular season against them, you ignorant slut.

[Drew]

Just saw this in the ESPN comments sections:


AlexanderTheDestroyer
Top 5 reasons to be a Heat fan after being a Laker fan for life:
1. Kobe's old so we ain't winning the title
2. DWight Howard is a baby so we ain't winning the title
3. Steve Nash is WHITE and OLD so we ain't winning the title
4. Pau Gasol is WHITE, SOFT, and OLD so we ain't winning the title
5. Mike D'Antoni can't coach for S*it so we ain't winning the title


All in all I'd rather he just stay a Lakers "fan".

[Keller]

I really hope the Heat get past the Bulls so I get the pleasure of talking shit to Drew and Lartarrrsrormr for the next year.

[Drew]

I really hope the Heat get past the Bulls so I get the pleasure of talking shit to Drew and Lartarrrsrormr for the next year.

The conference finals don't last a year.

[DoctorUnne]

LeBron finishes one vote (http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9244504/lebron-james-miami-heat-1-vote-shy-unanimous-mvp-honor) shy of unanimous MVP. Okay, it's dumb but at least Durant was the best player on the other 1 seed and had a historically great shooting season...

...wait... CARMELO??? Are you KIDDING ME???

-LeBron played 9 more games and 1 more minute per game,
-had 2 less points, 1 more rebound, and 4.5(!) more assists per game,
-plays defense (c.f. 2nd place DPOY) (again). Fun fact: Carmelo has received 0 DPOY votes in his career, less than David Lee, Hedo Turkoglu, and Devin Harris,
-played on a team with a TWENTY SEVEN GAME WIN STREAK that finished 12 games ahead of Carmelo's team, and
-was a better jump shooter than Carmelo this year, with an effective field goal percentage of 52.6% to Carmelo's 48.7% on jump shots.

Okay so Carmelo was a less efficient scorer, worse shooter, worse rebounder, worse passer, and much worse defender, but what about his teammates? Well, Carmelo finished 0.2 win shares ahead of the second place player on his team (Chandler), 9.5 to 9.3. LeBron finished 9.7 ahead of Wade, 19.3 to 9.6. The gap between James and Wade was bigger than Melo's overall contribution.

Inexcusable. I have every faith in Bill Simmons to find out this idiot's identity so public shaming can commence.

:lol2:

[Androidpk]

I really hope Lebron breaks a leg so Latrino stops foaming at the mouth about his boyfriend.

[Keller]

The conference finals don't last a year.

But the glory does.

[Latrinsorm]

I really hope Lebron breaks a leg so Latrino stops foaming at the mouth about his boyfriend.As his lawyers keep reminding me, LeBron is in a committed and happy relationship. Doesn't matter. We were meant to be. LeBron and I; Wayne "the Main Brain of Pain" McClain, discoverer of the latrino particle (potty-cle?).

Anyway, it turns out it was a Boston writer (http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/05/05/yes-voted-carmelo-anthony-for-mvp-and-for-good-reason/Yo08ZgzGaxzlt9KF0JDfqM/story.html) (of all people), and honestly I would have been less disappointed if he had done it out of spite. His big points are...

-The Knicks won a division title for the first time in a long time: #1 WHO CARES, #2 if that's your criterion your vote goes to Chris Paul.
-Jordan got robbed a bunch of times, too. (???)
-Jason Kidd, Marcus Camby, and Rasheed Wallace are old, Chandler (noticeably failed to mention in his SC interview) and Amare were hurt. Fails to mention Ray Felton (while going out of his way to tout Chalmers as "fearless"), Iman Shumpert, Steve Novak.

In sum, he claims Carmelo helped his team more because the Heat would be a "fifth or six" seed without LeBron, the Knicks would be in the lottery. Let's examine that claim, shall we? The fifth and sixth seeds in the East had 45 and 44 wins, respectively, so LeBron was therefore worth 20 wins to his 66 win team. (And the stats roughly bear that out.) To go from the Knicks' 54 wins to the lottery, Carmelo would have to be worth between 17 wins (9 seed) and 35 wins (15 seed). Even if we grant his "lottery team" claim, it doesn't immediately follow that Carmelo is worth more.

Incidentally, the Knicks were 7-8 without Carmelo this season, good for just over 38 wins over an 82 game season... tying them with Milwaukee for the 8 seed.

There's also the fact that there is absolutely no statistical basis for Carmelo being worth that much: as mentioned earlier he generated 9.5 Win Shares, his on/off value of +4.7 points per 100 possessions would only translate into 48.7 wins vs. 55.8 via the Pythagorean method. (For LeBron those values are 34.9 to 68.5. Just sayin'.)

.

Bottom line, the guy's a dope. He glanced at the rosters from the perspective of 2005 and called it a day. Everybody's free to their opinion, but I don't see what he's done to justify his opinion having historical relevance.

[Keller]

Let's not give the guy from Boston too hard of a time.

Face it - none of the rest of you voted for Lebron, either. So you're no better off than he is.

[thefarmer]

http://mmoqq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/30axsms.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Cepg9BaueeM/UYIkUZDKNmI/AAAAAAAAHcs/9UT-nmPC1W8/s640/Okc+double+flop+2.gif

Got an alert just now on my phone. "5k fine on Fisher".

That's it?

What a joke.

[Latrinsorm]

That's not so bad. Not to go Zapruder on it but he could have gotten tangled up with Martin, who definitely was not flopping. Derek Fisher is really strong, but physics is physics.

The fact that they both did the "whoooooa I got knocked down!" pose makes it look worse than it is.

[thefarmer]

That's not so bad. Not to go Zapruder on it but he could have gotten tangled up with Martin, who definitely was not flopping. Derek Fisher is really strong, but physics is physics.

The fact that they both did the "whoooooa I got knocked down!" pose makes it look worse than it is.

This would have been the perfect time to lay out these REALLY HARSH RULES AGAINST FLOPPING IN THE PLAYOFFS! Especially considering how floppy Fisher was that entire series.

Instead, they punked out.

[Keller]

Dear Miami Heat,

The Bulls scare me. Please beat them.

Thank you,
A Pacers Fan

[Latrinsorm]

Thibs deserves more credit for being willing (even eager) to consign Boozer to the bench. His defensive breakdowns were killing them through all 3 quarters, it's no coincidence he played 0 minutes in the 4th and the Bulls were +11.

Spo gets a little credit for trying Miller over Battier, but the play is trying Miller over Allen. The closing lineup of Chalmers Wade Allen James Bosh was successful during the regular season, but this wasn't the matchup for them.

Still, Battier-Allen-Chalmers-Miller are going to shoot better than 4 for 17 from 3 next game, the conditioning will be better, hopefully the officiating will be better. Big win game 2, sweep the two in Chicago, come home close it out and get ready for Indy-whatski.

[DoctorUnne]

Turned the game off and went to bad last night with the Warriors having extended their lead to 16 with four minutes left. Fucking awesome. That has to be close to some kind of record no? I know the Celtics came back from down 25-26 in the 4th in the playoffs back in the 'Toine days against the Nets, but has there been a playoff game with a blown lead that large with less time remaining? My money's on no.

Also love to see the ghosts of Celtics past haunting the Heat with Nate Robinson blowing by Ray Allen.

[SHAFT]

Have a stat related question? Latrin will find your answer in a jiffy!

[Latrinsorm]

That's an Elias question if I ever seen one, sorry. :(

[SHAFT]

According to wilbon, teams who were down by 16 or more with 4 minutes to go we're 0-392 until last night.

[Latrinsorm]

Even crazier that they did it largely without Duncan, who unlike Westbrook actually is critical for his team's success.

[SHAFT]

The Knicks are smoking the pacers. This game is a wrap! If only the pacers had someone who could bring them back

[Drew]

This Heat - Bulls game is really testy! It was more testy in the first half when the game was closer, now the Heat are up 25 but it's still chippy.

[Keller]

I don't know if it is testy, or if it's just that Lebron acts like he gets a flagrant every time he is touched.

[Drew]

I don't know if it is testy, or if it's just that Lebron acts like he gets a flagrant every time he is touched.




https://farm1.staticflickr.com/64/227818368_243e7f6d85.jpg

Yes let the hate flow through you. It makes you stronger, soon you will join us and we will rule the galaxy together!

[Latrinsorm]

I don't know if it is testy, or if it's just that Lebron acts like he gets a flagrant every time he is touched.I thought he was unusually restrained this game. Usually he is not afraid to embellish contact.

I thought Noah's conduct was embarrassing. Chalmers puts two hands on him and he goes flying, then he blows up LeBron on a screen and starts complaining about flopping? No, Jo. No. Butler also had a pretty good head snap back to draw an offensive foul on LeBron early.

And Gibson's conduct was just inexcusable. Kudos to Nazr for repeatedly yelling at him to try and get him to stfu, though. Especially when your team is scraping for warm bodies, to get thrown out of a game as a bench player because you didn't get two borderline calls (one of which was 100% non-contact)? If I were Stern I would suspend him a game just for being a crybaby.

I would honestly be worried as a Bulls fan. Most Miami players didn't even play their A game today - Wade got stuffed by the rim, at least two Miami passes bounced off Heat hands, a good % but medium volume night from 3, the FT numbers are inflated by the aforementioned techs and Ray Allen's resultant 6 point play. The only player who really played to their ceiling was Norris Cole (who had a fabulous game in all phases), although Battier's +42 in 22 minutes is pretty eye-catching. (The raw rebounding margin is not indicative. Miami got 8 of their 28 misses = 28.6%, Chicago got 12 of their 49 = 24.5%. Factor in that 8 minutes were bench only and Miami's bench is dramatically better than Chicago's and it was probably even at best.)

[DoctorUnne]

Noah is obnoxious and annoying. And ugly. He is really good though.

I'm now rooting for GS to make the finals.

[Atlanteax]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0509/nba_u_noahfinger_300.jpg

Amazingly Lady-like.

[Latrinsorm]

1:40 PM: Joey Crawford announced to referee tonight's game in Chicago.
1:41 PM: Dwyane Wade has already received 5 technicals (3 of which were deserved).

[SHAFT]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0509/nba_u_noahfinger_300.jpg

Amazingly Lady-like.

Anyone read this broad's backstory? She's nuts

http://deadspin.com/the-bird-flipping-miami-fan-was-once-accused-of-murderi-498713885

Imagine being married to that

[SHAFT]

Noah is obnoxious and annoying. And ugly. He is really good though.

I'm now rooting for GS to make the finals.

Agreed on GS. Miami vs GS would be a killer matchup.

[Drew]

Anyone read this broad's backstory? She's nuts

http://deadspin.com/the-bird-flipping-miami-fan-was-once-accused-of-murderi-498713885

Imagine being married to that

Yeah LeBatard was talking about this lady for 2 hours yesterday. He interviewed the guy who wrote the original story about the husband dying.

[Latrinsorm]

I was pleasantly surprised by how restrained Crawford was, although that's probably no consolation to Shane Battier.

Word in the broadcast was that Deng has lost 15 pounds to illness, and he wasn't exactly Deron Williams before. Scary stuff, he needs to take the rest of the playoffs off.

It's astonishing how well Chicago played in the regular season with how atrocious Boozer is on defense. It's really hard to watch. Even with Noah and Nazr there are 10 minutes per game at the center position unaccounted for, and it seems like the Bulls would just get demolished in those 10 minutes.

Speaking of that, mooooonster game from Bosh. It's really encouraging how balanced the Heat attack is now, Wade didn't force anything and James only forced a few shots. (25/8/7 on 17 shots, ho hum.) I also liked how Chalmers was the first guy to congratulate Cole after the game. He wasn't excited about it, but he wasn't crying either, good for him.

Miami continues to keep the rebounding battle roughly even. I don't know if it's fatigue on Chicago's part or what, but with them already being so far behind in so many other categories, it's hard to see them winning without dominating the boards. It also bodes very well for the potential next round matchup with Indiana.

[Latrinsorm]

Random note: there was some noise about Spoelstra winning the Coach of the Year this year and he ended up finishing 2nd. How many times has a team had the MVP (first awarded 1956) and the COY (first awarded 1963), and how did that go for everyone? It turns out it has happened 11 times, which is more than I expected, but each player and coach are members of only one pairing so far. A lot of the names are pretty easy to guess in advance, though:

LeBron James and Mike Brown - 2009 Cavaliers (lost in Conference Finals, Brown fired a year later, LeBron traded (;)) two years later)
Steve Nash and Mike D'Antoni - 2005 Suns (lost in Conference Finals, D'Antoni gone 3 years later, Nash stuck around for awhile)
Tim Duncan and Gregg Popovich - 2003 Spurs (won it all, still goin')
Allen Iverson and Larry Brown - 2001 76ers (lost in Finals, Brown was gone 2 years later)
Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson - 1996 Bulls (won, won, won)
Magic Johnson and Pat Riley - 1990 Lakers (lost in 2nd round, Riley retired immediately and apparently before his award, which must have made for a very awkward award ceremony, Magic retired after 1 year)
Dave Cowens and Tommy Heinsohn - 1973 Celtics (lost in Conference Finals which was the 2nd round then, both hung on for 5+ years)
Willis Reed and Red Holzman - 1970 Knicks (won, following which both were Knick lifers)
Wes Unseld and Gene Shue - 1969 Bullets (Unseld was also ROY, got swept out of the first round, both stayed on for many years)
Wilt Chamberlain and Dolph Schayes - 1966 Warriors (lost in Conference Finals after first round bye, Schayes fired, Wilt saddled them with two more MVPs and a championship before they were able to get rid of him, what a bum)
Bill Russell and Red Auerbach - 1965 Celtics (leading up to their 7th straight title, Auerbach hung it up after the next year)

All told 4 for 11 in winning the championship, which doesn't seem that impressive straight away but if I said you had a 36% chance of winning the title, that sounds pretty good.

The most interesting name not on the list for me is Kareem, you'd think with 6 awards just by random chance a coach would have gotten it, but no. It's even stranger when you look at some of the coaches he had in MVP years: Jerry West (who doesn't love Jerry West???), Bill Sharman (won it once in the ABA and once in the NBA but 0 for 2 with Kareem as MVP), Costello in Milwaukee (9th best winning % of coaches with 10+ years).

[Latrinsorm]

I heard a certain anchor on Sportscenter today blame the Thunder's turnover problems on lack of Westbrook.

1. The Thunder had the second highest turnover % and the Grizzlies had the second highest turnover % forced in the regular season. It was going to be a major problem for them in this series.

2. Westbrook is bad at not having turnovers. His mark of 3.3 per game was sixth worst in the NBA. (Kevin Durant is also bad at this, but he is not being touted as a savior vs. turnovers.)

3. As Zach Lowe detailed (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/57980/the-z-bo-issue-the-grizzlies-are-a-threat-to-emerge-from-the-west-but-only-if-zach-randolph-gets-right), even before the injury smart people were talking about Memphis as an upset threat.

4. Let's take a look way back at the 2011 composite box score (http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2011_WCS.html). OKC (with homecourt and Westbrook) won in 7: MEM, OKC, MEM (sound familiar?), OKC, OKC, MEM, OKC. Total margin of +28 points for OKC, or about 4 and a half per game, or really really close. Here are the players with >80 MP for each team:

Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Perkins, Ibaka, Collison, Sefolosha, Cook, Maynor, Mohammed
Randolph, Conley, Gasol, Mayo, Allen, Battier, Young, Arthur, Greivis Vasquez

What's changed for OKC?

Westbrook -> Jackson, Harden -> Martin, Maynor -> Fisher, Mohammed -> Thabeet, Cook's minutes spread around.

a. Westbrook and Maynor gave them 28.7 points, 6.7 rebounds, 10.5 assists, and 6.0(!!!) turnovers. Jackson and Fisher are giving them 24, 6, 2, and 3. Losing 5 points and 8 assists is a big deal, but getting 3 turnovers back is as well.

b. Harden to Martin is pretty even in points and rebounds, but another -3 assists with no appreciable turnover recovery.

c. Meanwhile, Durant is at +10 points, +4 rebounds, and +5 assists (and +2 turnovers). In terms of stars and point play, we're at a net of +5 points, +3 rebounds, -6 assists, and -1 turnover. Why then, are the Thunder at -10 points? Look at the bigs: Ibaka - Perk - Collison - Mohammed/Thabeet gave them 24.3 in 2011 and under 14 in 2013. This has nothing to do with Westbrook, who assisted on less than 4 of those points per game.

Just some facts to keep in mind before we all decide Westbrook was awesome and all the very real flaws people pointed out about him were mere haterade because now they're losing!!!!!

[SHAFT]

Lets go Indy! Fuck the Knicks

[Latrinsorm]

Knicks held to under 20 points in 3 out of 4 quarters last night, and managed a whopping 20 in the other. Indy meanwhile barely cracks 80 (97 ORtg, would rank 31st in the league over the regular season) against a mediocre defense. What would Chicago or Miami hold them to, 70? 60? Just putrid.

Storyline this morning on Sportscenter: Carmelo needs more help!!!!!!!!! (Carmelo: 21 points on 24.84 touches, 1 assist, 4 turnovers, worst +/- of any starter.) Maybe Carmelo should pass the baaaallllll come on Stephen A.

It frustrates me how people decide storylines. LeBron doesn't do well over 3 possessions down the stretch of one game - LeBron is a choker. LeBron does well - he got lucky (never that a 3 possession stretch is a stupid, stupid measurement to make). Durant does the same - Westbrook is valuable, or Durant is a great shooter (never Westbrook isn't valuable). The Knicks win - Carmelo is awesome. The Knicks lose - Carmelo is awesome.

What would it take for those people to say Westbrook wasn't that valuable? Or that Carmelo is a black hole and his teams win despite him? It's frustrating.

[Latrinsorm]

Chandler wins DPOY 2012, 2nd team All-Defensive.
Gasol wins DPOY 2013, 2nd team All-Defensive. Chandler 1st team.

Logically, next year Gasol will be 1st team and someone not mentioned in either team this year will be DPOY. My hypothetical money's on Jimmy Butler!

eta: Oo, or Durant! LeBron MVP and Durant DPOY, that will make no sense whatsoever and is therefore perfect.

[SHAFT]

Nah, tony Allen is going to the lakers on a 1 year deal and he 'll be dpoy

[Latrinsorm]

It would be fun to watch the best 3P shooting backcourt of all time take on the worst 3P shooting backcourt of all time 4 times a year.

Oh that's right, Kobe's going to miss most of next year. Never mind then.

[Latrinsorm]

Knicks lose, Carmelo 1 assist, leads the Knicks in turnovers, worst +/-, same stuff, different day.

Knicks down 3-1 but with homecourt" the last team to win the series in such a situation was two-time reigning MVP Steve Nash's Suns over all-time great Kobe Bryant's Lakers, and by the rules of Highlander that means Steve Nash is also an all-time great. He just knows how to win over a guy who just knows how to win. His big mistake was playing a team in the Mavericks with no guy who just knew how to win, it's a classic blunder. His big mistake the next year was playing a team with Cheap Shot Rob Horry, another classic blunder, you don't expect to see that from a cerebral player like Nash.

[SHAFT]

Shumpert 0/6 and smith 7/22 didn't help either. Jump shooting teams don't last long.

[Latrinsorm]

Yay. :)

If someone could throw out (burn) Dwyane Wade's knee bandage, that would be great. There definitely wasn't anything suspicious about his sudden recovery. Let us never speak of it again.

It seemed like minutes 6 to 1 of the fourth took about an hour, then the last minute was over in 10 seconds, especially that last Bulls' possession. Crazy!

The Belinelli - Hamilton splits are pretty dramatic: -17 in 14 Belly minutes, +12 in 35 Rip minutes, finished -3 overall. It's weird because Belinelli was leading the Bulls in +/- through the first 3 games, maybe he just gassed out? Rip was certainly well rested, and going against Ray Allen can get anybody going. Also surprising not to see more minutes for Nazr with how poorly Noah played offensively and how Boozer (has always) played defensively, but whatever.

Bring on the Pacers!

[DoctorUnne]

I'm going to barf if OKC, GS and NY all lose. These playoffs had so much potential and pretty much the worst case outcome has happened for any casual fan.

[Latrinsorm]

Speaking of the Thunder, it continues to be annoying when TV announcers refer to Chris Andersen as having played for them, when he in fact played for the New Orleans / Oklahoma City Hornets. I blame Bush.

And the last thing I'll post about the continuing fantasy that Westbrook would have saved OKC: OKC bigs scored 93 points on 144.36 touches in this series (which is if possible even worse than it sounds) and 164 points on 177.92 in 2011 against Memphis. Restricting them to the same number of touches gives 133 points, or a 40 point improvement, or 8 points per game, or an OKC sweep.

Westbrook and Maynor: 201 on 240.4 (.836 points per possession). Jackson and Fisher: 116 on 116.36 (.997).

Durant needed more help, yes, but not from the people you'd think.

[Latrinsorm]

After reading today's Grantland article about NBA travel horror stories back in the day, I found my way to a thoroughly impossible Wilt Chamberlain story. 1962, the season he averaged 48.5 minutes per game, missing 8 total minutes in the season all in one game due to a second technical. Everyone knows that (impossible) story, the thoroughly impossible part is this:

January 17th, game in Detroit against St. Louis (overtime)
January 18th, game in Philadelphia hosting Cincinnati
January 19th, game in Boston against Detroit
January 20th, game in Philadelphia hosting Detroit
January 21st, game in Utica (UTICA) against Syracuse (overtime)

Wilt played every single minute of a back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back (traveling every day!!!). With two overtimes this comes to 250 minutes...

...and he scored 275 pts and got 126 rebounds, or 55.0 and 25.2 per game (and 3.2 assists!), and shot 50.2% from the field and 68.8% from the line. His season averages were 50.4, 25.7, 2.4, 50.6%, and 61.3%.

Thoroughly impossible.

[Warriorbird]

After reading today's Grantland article about NBA travel horror stories back in the day, I found my way to a thoroughly impossible Wilt Chamberlain story. 1962, the season he averaged 48.5 minutes per game, missing 8 total minutes in the season all in one game due to a second technical. Everyone knows that (impossible) story, the thoroughly impossible part is this:

January 17th, game in Detroit against St. Louis (overtime)
January 18th, game in Philadelphia hosting Cincinnati
January 19th, game in Boston against Detroit
January 20th, game in Philadelphia hosting Detroit
January 21st, game in Utica (UTICA) against Syracuse (overtime)

Wilt played every single minute of a back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back (traveling every day!!!). With two overtimes this comes to 250 minutes...

...and he scored 275 pts and got 126 rebounds, or 55.0 and 25.2 per game (and 3.2 assists!), and shot 50.2% from the field and 68.8% from the line. His season averages were 50.4, 25.7, 2.4, 50.6%, and 61.3%.

Thoroughly impossible.

I'm way too young to have seen Chamberlain play. I stopped thinking things were impossible in the NBA every single time I saw Michael Jordan play though.

[Latrinsorm]

Box score A: 28 points, 28 field goal attempts, 3 turnovers, 0 assists
Box score B: 24 points, 23 field goal attempts, 3 turnovers, 1 assist

Headline A: Carmelo Anthony helps Knicks down Pacers to stay alive
Headline B: Pacers take 3-1 series lead as Knicks shooters go cold

smh

[SHAFT]

After reading today's Grantland article about NBA travel horror stories back in the day, I found my way to a thoroughly impossible Wilt Chamberlain story. 1962, the season he averaged 48.5 minutes per game, missing 8 total minutes in the season all in one game due to a second technical. Everyone knows that (impossible) story, the thoroughly impossible part is this:

January 17th, game in Detroit against St. Louis (overtime)
January 18th, game in Philadelphia hosting Cincinnati
January 19th, game in Boston against Detroit
January 20th, game in Philadelphia hosting Detroit
January 21st, game in Utica (UTICA) against Syracuse (overtime)

Wilt played every single minute of a back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back (traveling every day!!!). With two overtimes this comes to 250 minutes...

...and he scored 275 pts and got 126 rebounds, or 55.0 and 25.2 per game (and 3.2 assists!), and shot 50.2% from the field and 68.8% from the line. His season averages were 50.4, 25.7, 2.4, 50.6%, and 61.3%.

Thoroughly impossible.

What's better? That story or him shagging over 10,000 ladies?

[Latrinsorm]

I mean, as an incredibly famous professional athlete / millionaire the 10k ladies seems almost inevitable if you put your mind to it, which he obviously did. It's not like we're talking about Tom Chambers.

Being able to play above an MVP level 5 nights in a row with 0 rest, 1960s travel, nutrition, racism, medicine... it's just impossible.

.

I had a thought last night: what if OKC and LAL traded coaches? The Thunder were the best or second best offense in the league this year and their system was 0010 everybody clear out for Westbrook 0020 everybody clear out for Durant 0030 goto 0010, imagine what they could do with a real O-coach. Brooks is obsessed with playing big men, the Lakers have two of the top five centers in the league, and when Kobe comes back he loves the "everybody clear out for me" offense.

What would happen is both teams would get worse, but I submit more fun to watch.

[SHAFT]

Talk about crumpling in the 4th. 2 minutes left and Anthony is 1-7 with 2 to's in the 4th. Jr smith is a joke.

[Androidpk]

It's not too late.

[SHAFT]

Hibbert's rejection of Carmelo's dunk was one of the coolest things ever. Total rejection.

[Latrinsorm]

I know he started slow, but it's still pretty weird he didn't make the All-Star team. Although looking over it now it's not that easy to argue with Garnett, Bosh, Noah, Chandler, and Lopez being ahead of him, and 5 is already center-heavy.

I'm pretty stoked that I got the ECSFs exactly right. My WCSFs... anyway, I got the ECSFs exactly right! lol @ Carmelo's 8 assists. For the playoffs that gives him a little over 16.3 FGAs per assist. Here are the players who have done that (or worse) more than once for a postseason in which they played more than 200 minutes:

Carmelo Anthony
James Edwards (including with the second Bad Boys championship team)
Patrick Ewing
Elvin Hayes
Serge Ibaka
James Jones
Moses Malone
Bob McAdoo (3 times)
Yao Ming
Mike Mitchell
Peja Stojakovic (3 times, including Dallas 2011)
Amar'e Stoudemire
Kevin Willis (of course)

All told, these repeat offenders are 2 for 26 at winning championships. Including all the one timers paints a picture interesting for different reasons: 2012 Heat (Bosh), 2011 Mavs, 2008 Celts (Powe), 2007 Spurs (Elson), 1995 Rockets (Jones), 1994 Rockets (Herrera), 1990 Pistons, 1963 Celtics (TOMMY POINT), 1960 Celtics (Conley, no relation), 1957 (Loscutoff, count the rings Kobe), 1954 Lakers (Lovellette). Noticeably, none of these championship black hole players were the most important or arguably even second most important to their teams. Indeed, only Lovellette and Heinsohn are Hall of Famers, and only Bosh has a reasonable chance of getting there someday on basically the same principle of being on a dynasty team. Not saying the Heat will, but that if they do combined with Bosh's strong individual numbers it makes a pretty strong Hall case relative to the other folks in already.

[Latrinsorm]

And ok, wow, 46 to 18 FTAs. How about the paint attempts? Well, 33 to 28, so... that's a little sketchy. Whatever, neither team was beating Miami anyway.

[SHAFT]

I'm going to barf if OKC, GS and NY all lose. These playoffs had so much potential and pretty much the worst case outcome has happened for any casual fan.

Engage barf now?

[Drew]

I was really hoping to play the Nets then the Knicks and beat two New York teams. Now it went from 2 chances to shove it in their smug faces to none.

[Keller]

Are we making this interesting, Drew?

[Drew]

Are we making this interesting, Drew?

So Keller and I have agreed that whoever's team wins the series gets to set the loser's forum title (below the username) until the next NBA regular season begins.

Keller wins if the Pacers win the series.

Drew wins if the Heat win the series.



Agreed Keller?

[Keller]

Agreed.

[AnticorRifling]

So Keller and I have agreed that whoever's team wins the series gets to set the loser's forum title (below the username) until the next NBA regular season begins.

Keller wins if the Pacers win the series.

Drew wins if the Heat win the series.



Agreed Keller?



Agreed.


Winner is to contact me to assign the loser's title. Title is up to my very loose discretion for approval.

[SHAFT]

Both Keller and drew owe me money. Until I get paid there cannot be further bets! Pay up bitches!

[Latrinsorm]

You don't want to get cut off from the author and font of all tits and wine.

[Drew]

You don't want to get cut off from the author and font of all tits and wine.

Payment has already been arranged.

[DoctorUnne]

Engage barf now?

:puke:

[SHAFT]

I had no idea that Jeanie buss did playboy back in 95. Hot damn!

[Latrinsorm]

Just glancing at the per-game averages from the ECSFs for the starters of both teams, recognizing that Hill was out one game:

Indiana - 75.4 points, 38.1 rebounds, 16.1 assists (led by Paul George's 5.0), 30 3PM on 27.5% shooting.
Miami - 73.4 points, 24.4 rebounds, 19 assists, 13 3PM on 33.3% shooting.

Both teams sort of have a 9 man rotation:
Indiana - D.J. Augustin (15.6 minutes per game off the bench), Tyler Hansbrough (12.3), Ian Mahinmi (8.5), Sam Young (8.2)
Miami - Norris Cole (22.9), Shane Battier (21.8), Ray Allen (21.5), Chris Andersen (12.8)

I would suspect that Indiana is very competitive in or even wins the 1st and 3rd quarters (especially in the first game), but gives it all up as the benches come into play (especially as the series wears on). Miami's depth also gives it a huge advantage in case of foul trouble or injuries - Mike Miller would start for the Pacers, and he's the 10th guy for Miami.

Heat in 5!

[SHAFT]

In the immortal words of bill Simmons, "Why take hibbert out?"

[Drew]

In the immortal words of bill Simmons, "Why take hibbert out?"


That foul on George wouldn't have been called in 99 of 100 end game situations. That's what we call an RGF, revenue generating foul. NBA was trying to add another game on to this series, didn't work.

[Keller]

I assume the refs will get a hefty fine for calling 5 fouls on the King.

They should get fined for giving the game to the Heat. So many blown calls.

[Keller]

That foul on George wouldn't have been called in 99 of 100 end game situations. That's what we call an RGF, revenue generating foul. NBA was trying to add another game on to this series, didn't work.

Star player takes 3-pt shot to win, gets hacked on the arm, and you don't think it gets called?

Had they not called it, it would have been even more obvious that they were trying to give the game to the Heat. Get out of here.

[Drew]

Star player takes 3-pt shot to win, gets hacked on the arm, and you don't think it gets called?

Had they not called it, it would have been even more obvious that they were trying to give the game to the Heat. Get out of here.

WTF "hacked"????????? Are you on crack?

[Keller]

WTF "hacked"????????? Are you on crack?

It is always easy to spot a Miami/Lakers fan. They are the fans who have become so accustomed to star treatment that they react with shock to what the rest of the sports-watching world understands is an obvious foul.

Wade, trying to recover from getting crossed over, extended his hand into George's shooting arm during the shooting motion. Not sure how much more contact you want to see. It wasn't intentional, but it was hard contact during the shooting motion. Do you think George air balls a 3 short and wide to the right without getting hacked?

[Drew]

Do you think George air balls a 3 short and wide to the right without getting hacked?

HACKED?

Alright here's a screen cap of George immediately before releasing the ball. Wade does not touch him at all during his shooting motion before the ball is released:

http://i.imgur.com/C6CzqnV.jpg

Here is Wade's hand about to graze Paul's hand AFTER the shot is released:

http://i.imgur.com/nEqwohu.jpg

And here is the HACK (which it turns out is a hand grazing another hand after the shot is long gone):

http://i.imgur.com/FNCPKIb.jpg



So Keller, you're happy with that being a call refs make with the game on the line, the "hand graze after the shot" foul is one we should be calling? Speaking of shameless homerism, if Reggie Miller can't be objective he shouldn't be calling Pacers games.

[SHAFT]

I think the realization that the pacers will lose in 5-6 is beginning to set in for most pacers fans. There was hope prior to last night.

Also, drew thanks for paying me for your lost bet. Keller? Pay me my money? 2m or 25 dollars us currency will do.

[Atlanteax]

I thought the foul call that put George at the line was underwhelming.

However, I enjoyed Indiana taking the lead after he made all 3.

Then I was disappointed that Miami ended up being able to score with 2 seconds left and winning.

As it would be more engaging for this series to be a slug-fest in a sense.

[Keller]

Talk about cherry picking screen caps. Pretty disingenuous to leave out a few dozen frames.

[Latrinsorm]

It was a strange game, something seemed off all night. It was as if both teams were rusty, and the officials were rusty, and there was a general suspension of rust particles in the air... but honestly in retrospect there didn't seem to be any egregious calls. Wade did foul George; a touch foul is still a foul. The number of fouls was pretty intense, especially on the offensive end, but it was obvious the NBA wanted to prevent another Bulls meltdown series. This is especially important with a team in Indiana populated so heavily with fake tough guys, who need to posture in an attempt to cover up for their wimpiness. (Note how David West and Udonis Haslem do not posture.)

Bad coaching decision by Vogel, no way to spin it. There's no point in having a switching line-up when there's only 2.2 seconds left. LeBron barely had time to make a layup (and if we want to talk about iffy reffing, they could very easily have called a travel before and after his single dribble on that move), he could not possibly have had time to drive and kick, and even if he did nobody shoots 80% on jump shots. After the first half I noted how when LeBron goes to the bench, the Heat still run their offense and defense, just not as well, but when Hibbert goes to the bench, the Indy defensive scheme just falls apart. Vogel has been through a whole season of that, plus the 1-3 inverted pick and roll (Miami's new pet playoff play with Cole) leading to Hill getting destroyed by LeBron towards the end of regulation.

That he is nevertheless a good coach only goes to show how ignorant basing any large scale judgment off of one play is. Consider how we got to overtime in the first place: Ray Allen doesn't hit 2 of 2 free throws (1 of 5 chance of that happening), George hits a miracle 30 foot twisting off-balance 3 (generously a 1 in 5 chance as well). Then to close OT we have George hitting all 3 of 3 free throws (1 of 2), then for Indy to win LeBron would have to miss a layup (1 in 5). All told an Indiana win is 1 in 250... but if Shane Battier makes a wide open 3, or Lance Stephenson lays slightly fewer bricks, we never get that far in the first place. Close games mean nothing for the future, only for the standings.

One thing's for sure: the Pacers really miss Westbrook and Rudy Gay.

[Keller]

I think the realization that the pacers will lose in 5-6 is beginning to set in for most pacers fans. There was hope prior to last night.

Also, drew thanks for paying me for your lost bet. Keller? Pay me my money? 2m or 25 dollars us currency will do.

You're going to make me log into GS. When?

[Keller]

It was a strange game, something seemed off all night. It was as if both teams were rusty, and the officials were rusty, and there was a general suspension of rust particles in the air... but honestly in retrospect there didn't seem to be any egregious calls. Wade did foul George; a touch foul is still a foul. The number of fouls was pretty intense, especially on the offensive end, but it was obvious the NBA wanted to prevent another Bulls meltdown series. This is especially important with a team in Indiana populated so heavily with fake tough guys, who need to posture in an attempt to cover up for their wimpiness. (Note how David West and Udonis Haslem do not posture.)

Bad coaching decision by Vogel, no way to spin it. There's no point in having a switching line-up when there's only 2.2 seconds left. LeBron barely had time to make a layup (and if we want to talk about iffy reffing, they could very easily have called a travel before and after his single dribble on that move), he could not possibly have had time to drive and kick, and even if he did nobody shoots 80% on jump shots. After the first half I noted how when LeBron goes to the bench, the Heat still run their offense and defense, just not as well, but when Hibbert goes to the bench, the Indy defensive scheme just falls apart. Vogel has been through a whole season of that, plus the 1-3 inverted pick and roll (Miami's new pet playoff play with Cole) leading to Hill getting destroyed by LeBron towards the end of regulation.

That he is nevertheless a good coach only goes to show how ignorant basing any large scale judgment off of one play is. Consider how we got to overtime in the first place: Ray Allen doesn't hit 2 of 2 free throws (1 of 5 chance of that happening), George hits a miracle 30 foot twisting off-balance 3 (generously a 1 in 5 chance as well). Then to close OT we have George hitting all 3 of 3 free throws (1 of 2), then for Indy to win LeBron would have to miss a layup (1 in 5). All told an Indiana win is 1 in 250... but if Shane Battier makes a wide open 3, or Lance Stephenson lays slightly fewer bricks, we never get that far in the first place. Close games mean nothing for the future, only for the standings.

One thing's for sure: the Pacers really miss Westbrook and Rudy Gay.

There was also an egregious travel by Norris Cole in the first half (inbounds to him and he takes 3 steps without a single dribble), multiple over-the-back non-calls, the Hansborough foul, the numerous Wade/Battier flops.

The officiating left a lot to be desired.

[SHAFT]

You're going to make me log into GS. When?

Ill be home later today. Ill send you something on aim

[Latrinsorm]

Side note: who do you suppose is the leader in the category of 10 assist, 3 block playoff games since 1986? (LeBron had such a game last night.)

As I am a socialist Kenyan, it is obvious that I would only bring this up because the answer is TIE.

Tim Duncan and Scottie Pippen at 3 apiece. T-Mac and Drexler have 2. The singles are some usual suspects (LeBron, Jordan, Garnett, Webber) some shockers (Ewing, McMillan, Stockton) some 50/50 (Olajuwon, Robinson, Sampson, Penny).

[Latrinsorm]

There was also an egregious travel by Norris Cole in the first half (inbounds to him and he takes 3 steps without a single dribble), multiple over-the-back non-calls, the Hansborough foul, the numerous Wade/Battier flops.

The officiating left a lot to be desired.A flop is not a foul, and there were plenty of non-calls on guys falling down. If the NBA hands down fines, then we can talk.

Hansbrough should be called for fouls on general principle.

That Cole travel was pretty bad.

I did not notice any particularly bad otb non-calls, but it's a call that is generally pretty vague anyway.

[Keller]

A flop is not a foul, and there were plenty of non-calls on guys falling down. If the NBA hands down fines, then we can talk.

Hansbrough should be called for fouls on general principle.

That Cole travel was pretty bad.

I did not notice any particularly bad otb non-calls, but it's a call that is generally pretty vague anyway.

By flops I mean called fouls that were NOT fouls. The high pick by David West where Wade went flying (called moving pick; was actually Wade acting as if West threw his shoulder), the LBJ flop setting a pick on DJ "140 lbs soaking wet" Augustine, etc. I'll be the first to admit I noticed them because I am a Pacers fan, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. I'll also admit the Pacers may have flopped (I didn't notice it, but I wasn't looking for it).

The Hansborough call was attrocious. Battier close-lined him and somehow it is a foul on Hansborough. Inexcusable.

The OTB that I remember most vivedly was James going over George's back on the baseline. George was going for a rebound that was actually over the end line and James came OTB to knock the ball lose and out of bounds on George. He didn't make a ton of contact, which is probably why it was a no call, but it was clearly over the back with contact. Same caveat applies here as above. Obviously I'm coming from a Pacers fan's perspective.

[Latrinsorm]

You can't blow up a guy setting a screen, no matter how big he is, no matter what his reaction is. LeBron got called for a flagrant doing that to Boozer who barely budged. If LeBron engaged in some theater for referee benefit, which he obviously did, although I think people underestimate the effect of center of gravity, it doesn't matter. It was a foul, it was called a foul = good call.

That was a tangle-up, and Battier is very well-spoken, so the foul arrow points to Hansbrough. Sheesh, it's like you don't even read the rulebook.

I think you're thinking about Wade doing that, but Marv confused the two about a thousand times during the telecast so I won't hold it against you. In any event hustle plays always get the benefit of the doubt, in any sport (c.f. Jeter).

.

That reminds me though: Drew, what was up with Wade wearing a mouth guard last night? I can't ever remember seeing him do so, he always chewed gum.

[Keller]

You can't blow up a guy setting a screen, no matter how big he is, no matter what his reaction is. LeBron got called for a flagrant doing that to Boozer who barely budged. If LeBron engaged in some theater for referee benefit, which he obviously did, although I think people underestimate the effect of center of gravity, it doesn't matter. It was a foul, it was called a foul = good call.

That was a tangle-up, and Battier is very well-spoken, so the foul arrow points to Hansbrough. Sheesh, it's like you don't even read the rulebook.

I think you're thinking about Wade doing that, but Marv confused the two about a thousand times during the telecast so I won't hold it against you. In any event hustle plays always get the benefit of the doubt, in any sport (c.f. Jeter).

.

That reminds me though: Drew, what was up with Wade wearing a mouth guard last night? I can't ever remember seeing him do so, he always chewed gum.

The point of a screen is to physically impede the defensive player from continuing to guard an offensive player. It requires the screener to be contacted by the defender. It is the screener's OBJECTIVE to make contact with the defender. In this case, LBJ was successful. In addition, he flopped, selling the contact as more than it was. Obviously you bought it.

[Keller]

Kyle Neddenriep ‏@KyleNeddenriep (https://twitter.com/KyleNeddenriep)1m (https://twitter.com/KyleNeddenriep/status/337645349390917632)
Final thought on the LeBron/Pacers play from last night: Jordan would have dunked it.

[Latrinsorm]

Not at all, not at all. The screener's objective is to impede the defensive player period. This can be accomplished by the defender going around (over or under), the defender committing a foul by intentionally invading the screener's legally permitted space, or the defender unintentionally getting KOed by doing the same. Your right to swing your fist does not extend to my jaw, your right to defend does not extend to my bosom. If you are waving your arms around like an enraged octopus (like you like to do) and so happen to connect with my jaw, that is a gray area.

[Latrinsorm]

All-NBA Teams

First
Paul and Bryant
James and Durant
Duncan

Second
Westbrook and Parker
Anthony and Griffin
Marc Gasol

Third
Harden and Wade
George and Lee
Howard

.

It's a joke.

The forwards aren't terrible, although George being behind either of Griffin and Anthony is pretty sad. The centers are okay.

The guards are a j-o-k-e joke. Here's how it should go:

Paul and Harden
Westbrook and Wade
Parker and Curry

Give me a break here. Kobe hasn't played defense in two years. His team was first round road kill. His personal stats were poor. Tell me why Kobe should make it above any of the guys I picked.

[SHAFT]

Latrin, you ever been to the player haters ball?

If not, you should attend. With all that hatin you do, you'd be a shoo-in for player hater of the year.

[Latrinsorm]

I got a little tipsy and interrupted Ice. You know how that works out.

Seriously, though!!!

[SHAFT]

You the most diabolical, hatin son of a bitch this side of the Mississippi!

[Latrinsorm]

Hey, I'm all for giving Kobe his proper respect. He's surely in the top 50 of all NBA players of all time, and his team success stacks up very well with pretty much any other #1/#2 fella. His offensive production at his advanced mileage is astonishing (and a little suspicious h8 h8 h8).

Neither MVP nor All-NBA is (or should be) a career achievement award. Neither MVP nor All-NBA is (or should be) normalized for being old. I'm not going to campaign for LeBron as MVP when he's 37 and doing nothing but shooting corner 3s for the Moscow Setskaies. You can take that to the bank. To the blood bank.

[SHAFT]

Kobe had a solid year, you hater. Sometimes it isn't about the numbers. He passed the eye test this year.

[Androidpk]

Sometimes it isn't about the numbers.

Said no ClydeR/Latrinsorm ever.

[Latrinsorm]

I don't know how you watched Kobe on defense and concluded anything but fail. Here are pictures for your eyes, your special eyes whose brand is in fact carried by 1-800-CONTACTS:

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2013/1/11/3864814/kobe-bryant-is-ruining-kobe-bryants-historic-season

Or the improbably named Coach Nick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bvJivGNoUw

Just keep your eye on Kobe, and reference one play where he takes two steps off the ball. He's playing old man defense, which is fine because he is in fact an old man, but don't piss on my armoire and tell me it's Laker gold and purple, and also you should definitely get that checked out, that sounds like a horrific infection.

(And yes, the numbers are also catastrophically bad.)

[SHAFT]

I agree. He took the year off of defense. I don't need links, which are the internets versions of pop-ups, to know Kobe didn't play d this year.

[Keller]

Sometimes it isn't about the numbers.

Great.

Let's take away the championships (that he won riding Shaq's/Phil's/Pau's coattails) and we can all finally agree LBJ is far better than Kobe.

[SHAFT]

Jordan didn't win without pippen. Shad didn't win without Kobe and wade. Magic had kareem and worthy. Lebron couldn't win without wade and bosh.

What's your point Keller?

[Keller]

Jordan didn't win without pippen. Shad didn't win without Kobe and wade. Magic had kareem and worthy. Lebron couldn't win without wade and bosh.

What's your point Keller?

That it is insincere of you to ignore numbers and rely on the eye test when the last remaining argument in the Kobe v. Lebron "debate" is the number of Kobe's championships.

[SHAFT]

Yeah maybe it is. Why even have a lebron vs Kobe debate? Kobe's career is damn near over and lebron has 8 or more years of dominant basketball left.

Lebrons peers who he should compared with are Carmelo and Durant.

Kobe should be compared to Duncan if we're talking win and championships.

[Keller]

Why even have a lebron vs Kobe debate?

Because LA fans and LBJ haters insist that Kobe is in Lebron's league as a player.

[SHAFT]

I'm a huge lakers fan and even I would take lebron over Kobe. Lebron may not win as many championships and kobe, but as an overall player he's much better. Now and in their primes even.

Kobe is still one of the greatest players of all time. I know he relaxed on defense this year to focus more on offense, but watching Kobe in his 17th year at age 34 have the season he had this year was a treat.

[Keller]

I'm a huge lakers fan and even I would take lebron over Kobe. Lebron may not win as many championships and kobe, but as an overall player he's much better. Now and in their primes even.

Kobe is still one of the greatest players of all time. I know he relaxed on defense this year to focus more on offense, but watching Kobe in his 17th year at age 34 have the season he had this year was a treat.

This is all that I ask for.

Like Latrin said - Kobe is one of the top 50 players for sure. But LBJ is top 5 of all time. That is really, really, really rare air.

[Latrinsorm]

I agree. He took the year off of defense. I don't need links, which are the internets versions of pop-ups, to know Kobe didn't play d this year.Alright, then how can we say he's one of the two best guards in the NBA if he only played half of any given game? Compare to Harden, who is also not much of a defender but inarguably did more offensively, and whose team was slightly more successful with a much worse supporting cast. Compare to Wade, who did less offensively but was a wrecking ball defensively, and whose team was dramatically more successful with a much better supporting cast.

It's just a bad award.
Jordan didn't win without pippen. Shad didn't win without Kobe and wade. Magic had kareem and worthy. Lebron couldn't win without wade and bosh.

What's your point Keller?We're getting a little afield here, but...

Yes, everybody needs help to win championships (except Hakeem, although you could say Michael playing baseball counts), but Kobe's lack of success without help is stunning when compared with other all time greats. The Los Angeles Lakers missing the playoffs by 11 with Kobe's 2005 squad was their worst showing since 1958. The Lakers going 4 years without winning a playoff series has happened twice since the 16 team bracket was introduced: 2005-2007 and 1992-1994. There is a lot of middle ground between that putridity and winning a championship. LeBron got to the Finals with Ilgauskas and 8 stiffs, why couldn't Kobe even come close to making the playoffs with a future 6MoY and a future 2-time All-Star (and, granted, 6 stiffs)? Heck, even Gervin's teams did better (only ever missing the playoffs by 1 game), and they played in friggin' Texas.

[SHAFT]

Latrin, don't mention James Harden in the same sentence as Kobe Bryant again please. James harden is a baby compared to Kobe. James harden needs to put in some serious work to even be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe. Kobe has played 17 years and is in the twilight of his career. Who's shocked James harden had a better statistical year than Kobe THIS year. I haven't double checked the numbers and I'm assuming you're right of course on that.

Also, I didn't vote on the all pro ballot. I haven't a clue as to why Kobe got in before harden. Maybe it's because he's 34? I dunno.

Lebron got there in a weak, weak, WEAK, eastern conference. Who cares? He got curb-stomped by the spurs.

[Latrinsorm]

Latrin, don't mention James Harden in the same sentence as Kobe Bryant again please. James harden is a baby compared to Kobe. James harden needs to put in some serious work to even be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe. Kobe has played 17 years and is in the twilight of his career. Who's shocked James harden had a better statistical year than Kobe THIS year. I haven't double checked the numbers and I'm assuming you're right of course on that.

Also, I didn't vote on the all pro ballot. I haven't a clue as to why Kobe got in before harden. Maybe it's because he's 34? I dunno.That's just it, though, we're not talking about the Team of the Decade, we're talking about the Team of 2013. Kobe could (and is probably going to) play 27 years and it wouldn't mean he was the best guard in 2023. In 2013, Harden was better than Kobe, so Harden should get better awards for the 2013 year.
Lebron got there in a weak, weak, WEAK, eastern conference. Who cares? He got curb-stomped by the spurs.He beat the Pistons who beat the Lakers. BOOM, lawyered.

[SHAFT]

Year to year teams are different. The pistons team that beat the lakers wasn't the same as the one lebron beat to reach the finals. There was a 3 year difference. Come on latrin, you're better than this.

Lemme compare Kobe to harden this year. Ill get back to you.

[Latrinsorm]

You're just not thinking four dimensionally, Marty.

[Keller]

Are you convinced the officials are in the bag for Miami yet?

Jesus Christ

[SHAFT]

Keller, is that you sitting court side near the Miami bench in the gold jacket?

[Keller]

Yes

[Keller]

This is laughable. 5 on 8.

[Latrinsorm]

Aw man, I already deleted the game from my TiVo, is Kelly featured in any screen caps?

I made a snide remark about how bad the Indiana offense was against the Knicks, a middling defensive team, but suddenly the Pacers are producing incredible ORtgs. Here is their track record starting in game 1 against the Knicks:

112.1
93.4
97.3
109.8
88.0 (enter snide remark)
126.8 with .507 FT/FGA
106.2 with .289
116.6 with .394

For reference, the Pacers in the regular season sported a value of .219: at #7 in the league, pretty good. Miami defensively gave up .200: #14 in the league, middling. It is plausible that Miami would foul the Pacers more than usual given their respective styles, but for the Pacers to be in the .4-.5 range is obviously unsustainable. Check out the number of games each CF team has had 30+ FTAs this postseason...
SAS - 0
MIA - 3 (2 against CHI, 1 against MIL, 0 against IND)
MEM - 5
IND - 7
...so give me a break, Kel-kel. :)

I'm still confident Miami wins in 5. The Pacers are playing at their ceiling (career game for Hibbert), Miami is in 3rd gear. The Heat went 5 of 18 and 7 of 22 from 3 the first 2 games - low % and low attempts. Some of that is Indy, but the Heat are also just missing open looks, and as we saw last night the Heat always have a fresh 3 point shooter, while the Pacers are already deeper into their bench than they'd like to chase people around. Meanwhile West is shooting something like 70%, that's not going to last no matter how bad the match-up is.

Finally, I look forward to Keller and I arguing for days over where West was aiming when he flagrantly elbowed Chalmers in the shoulder.

[Keller]

M

[Latrinsorm]

...f?

[Latrinsorm]

What if I told you that the Pacers would...

-have more fast break points
-hit more 3s at a better %
-dominate the boards
-have only 10 turnovers
-have a better AST/FG ratio
-get more than half again as many FTAs (for example, Hibbert having more than Wade and James combined)
-get 20 and 17 from Hibbert, 21 and 10 from West
-hold LeBron to 22, 4, and 3

...and not only lose at home, but get blown out.

The Heat are just too good and too deep for the Pacers when they play serious. Last night it was Haslem who caught fire: hadn't put up 17 and 7 at all since November 2010, hadn't done it in the playoffs since the 2006 Finals. Next game it could be Battier, or Allen, or Miller, or Andersen might make 9 shots on 6 attempts... or one of the big 3 might have a monster game. Where's it going to come from for the Pacers? George Hill is who he is, Hibbert and West are already playing phenomenally, the less said about the bench the better. Paul George played great considering he got bulldozed by LeBron all night, and the Pacers have no other option defensively. Sam Young can't defend anyone, Lance Stephenson doesn't have the size, David West doesn't have the speed.

With that said, we saw last night and have seen throughout the season that the Heat's attention can waver. Even for LeBron it's hard work bashing bodies in the post, even for Wade's vintage athleticism it's hard work flying around on defense. The Heat can beat themselves, but they're still so good they overcame that for a 27 game win streak, do the Pacers have any chance at winning 3 of the next 4? Keller? Now's your chance to talk it up so that when it happens you can be smug.

[SHAFT]

The heat vs the spurs doesn't do much for me. Not that it would happen, but the spurs vs the pacers sounds even worse. I suppose it'd be interesting to root for the massive underdog if the pacers beat the heat. Hahahaha, wait, what am I saying?

I was actually excited about the grizzlies vs spurs prior to the beginning. The grizzlies have been overmatched since the tip off of game 1. Pitiful.

Jeff van Gundy said backdoor. Hehe.

[Latrinsorm]

One thing's for sure, the Grizz definitely miss Rudy Gay. That they never got this far with him and have therefore done better without him is in no way evidence that they're better off without him. Just so we're all clear on that: any time a team loses at any point, it's because the guy the stupid nerds don't like is actually awesome. Stupid nerds!!!

And Heat Spurs would be awesome. The Eurostep Bowl, payback for 2007, Chris Andersen making Boris Diaw look like a fat slob. We haven't had a great coach and all-time great player on each side of the Finals too terribly many times. 1991 maybe was the most recent time, and even that's questionable. One thing's for sure, if the Spurs lose at any point this postseason, they'll be missing Captain Jack's toughness and intangibles.

[Keller]

do the Pacers have any chance at winning 3 of the next 4?

Of course they do. They won one in Miami. They should have won a second. They just need to win one more in Miami.

[Keller]

Smart writing.

Dwayne Wade is a dirty, flopping cheater. (http://www.cbssports.com/general/blog/gregg-doyel/22311531/way-of-wade-flopping-dirty-plays-for-the-win)

[Atlanteax]

Smart writing.

Dwayne Wade is a dirty, flopping cheater. (http://www.cbssports.com/general/blog/gregg-doyel/22311531/way-of-wade-flopping-dirty-plays-for-the-win)

Heh, Bruce Bowen looks like a class act in comparison.

[Keller]

Joey Crawford is officiating.

Lance Stephenson already assessed a technical foul.

[Latrinsorm]

Of course Wade is dirty, but I'm not sure how any Indy fan can feel righteous commenting on it when David West plays on your team. (Tyler Hansbrough is also a cheap-shot artist, but nobody cares about Tyler Hansbrough.)

I also find the language comically overblown. "hurl"ing Rondo, "smashing" Stephenson, "throwing" himself out of bounds. Frankly I expected better from a man who covers Brooksville Hernando for a living.

[Keller]

Wade and Battier are, in their own rights, dirtier players than Tyler and David West combined.

[Drew]

Wade and Battier are, in their own rights, dirtier players than Tyler and David West combined.

You are so cute.

[Keller]

You are so cute.

Your seductive powers will not work on me.

[gs4-PauperSid]

Go spurs! :yes2:

[Latrinsorm]

Tyler Hansbrough has played 4854 minutes in the regular season, has 10 technicals and 1 flagrant. In his playoff career: 529, 2, and 1.
West: 21520, 50, 4; 1727, 8, 1.
Wade: 24556, 69, 4; 4812, 8, 3 counting this retro one.
Battier: 28536, 4, 1; 2712, 1, 1.

Rates for each, given in fouls per 1000 minutes:
2.23, 0.37
2.49, 0.22
2.62, 0.24
0.16, 0.06

The only reason Wade has more raw flagrants than Hansbrough is because Hansbrough barely plays. Wade and West are almost indistinguishable. Battier never does anything, obviously, you just hate him because he plays defense. :D

[Keller]

On pace for pacers win. 216-0. Suck it Drew and Eric.

[Keller]

And the Joey Crawford effect begins. Congrats on going up 3-1, Heat.

[Keller]

Barrier is a dirty motherfucker

[Keller]

Battier. Damn autocorrect.

[Drew]

The amount of flopping the Pacers are doing is shameful.

[Keller]

The amount of flopping the Pacers are doing is shameful.

Trolls only work when there is an element of truth to them. This is complete fabrication and it will not rustle my jimmies because I know it to be a lie.

[Drew]

Trolls only work when there is an element of truth to them. This is complete fabrication and it will not rustle my jimmies because I know it to be a lie.

Your team is intentionally trying to sprain ankles now, but no, they aren't dirty.

[Drew]

Haha David West literally just flopped at the end of the 3rd because LeBron had his arm against him. I have honestly never seen a more shameful team. At least the Bulls played tough, these guys play weak. Granted they are maximizing their chances but it's embarrassing.

[Keller]

Your team is intentionally trying to sprain ankles now, but no, they aren't dirty.

Bosh has always been the softest player in the NBA. Literally impossible to blame that on him.

[SHAFT]

Bosh has always been the softest player in the NBA. Literally impossible to blame that on him.

Softest player in the nba with a championship?

[Keller]

Softest player in the nba with a championship?

No. Period.

[Keller]

I have honestly never seen a more shameful team. At least the Bulls played tough, these guys play weak.

Glad you agree. The Heat are a national embarrassment.

[Drew]

Bosh has always been the softest player in the NBA. Literally impossible to blame that on him.

They went under LeBron too, just literally sticking his foot under LeBron's as he came down.

[Keller]

They went under LeBron too, just literally sticking his foot under LeBron's as he came down.

Lebron can either be the best athlete in the world, or tripped up by a bunch of scrubs. Your choice.

I tend to think he is flopper. Like the rest of the Heat squad.

[Drew]

Lebron can either be the best athlete in the world, or tripped up by a bunch of scrubs. Your choice.


The best athlete in the world still comes down after he jumps. Being a good athlete doesn't mean you don't have ankles. Also your boy George just hit Wade on the head and didn't get the flagrant, pretty much classic Joey Crawford fucking Miami.

[Keller]

The best athlete in the world still comes down after he jumps. Being a good athlete doesn't mean you don't have ankles. Also your boy George just hit Wade on the head and didn't get the flagrant, pretty much classic Joey Crawford fucking Miami.

Call me when George throws a flying elbow at Wades head.

Then it will be even and we can talk about whether the next flying elbow deserves a foul call.

[Drew]

LOL that foul. If it wasn't super clear before, it is now.

[Keller]

Out on Miami. Thankfully they have to replay that for America to see. Otherwise it is in Miami ball.

[Keller]

LOL! Miami gets the call. No surprise there.

[Keller]

Officials call a travel of D Wade? Their paychecks will suffer for that

[Atlanteax]

Wade tried for an offensive flop, but got called on it, Travel.

[Keller]

Think the NBA can will the Heat to a 3-1 series lead?

Stay tuned!

[Keller]

Wade tried for an offensive flop, but got called on it, Travel.

Drew is bitching to no end on instant message about that call. Fucking Heat fans.

[Androidpk]

Go Indiana!

[Latrinsorm]

The travel call was incorrect, the 5th and 6th James fouls were incorrect. West is going to get a flagrant for hitting Wade from behind in the head while airborne. Lance Stephenson is too much of a goofball to have done the Bruce Bowen ankle breaker on purpose, he gets a pass.

Bosh had 2 fouls in the 1st, Wade had 2 fouls in the 1st 4 minutes, LeBron had an unbelievably phantom technical in the first. Seriously, of all the times he complains and gyrates, they call the technical on that? Tell me again how the refs are conspiring for Miami.

In the end, what sunk the Heat was missing open shots. They're going to make them more often than not, so they're going to win the series. I also want to point one thing out: last year without Bosh the Heat won in 6. This year with Bosh they'll do no better than winning in 6. That's how bad Granger was for the Pacers, and as pathetic as they look on offense without him, they make it work. Ball-stopping bombers, whether Granger, Gay, Kobe, whoever, are just not good for a team.

[Atlanteax]

2-2 ... I can only imagine the evisceration that Lebron will get for 'not winning' the championship this year, should Indiana ultimately pull off the upset.

[Keller]

Tell me again how the refs are conspiring for Miami.

You should just watch the games an you can tell yourself how.

[Keller]

Dan Dakich ‏@dandakich (https://twitter.com/dandakich)1m (https://twitter.com/dandakich/status/339589765701697536)
Pacer fans..Joey tried..he gave it his all but Big Roy too much

[Keller]

Pretty funny that Heat fans want to complain about the Wade travel (which was a travel) and the sixth foul on James (which was his seventh of the game), but neglect to mention the missed 24 second call, which was a +4 pt swing for the Pacers.

Homers gonna homer for the Heat.

[DoctorUnne]

Both fans complaining about the refs probably means it was pretty even. The only call I saw that was noticeably horrible was the shot clock violation when hibbert's shot clearly hit the rim. Glad Indiana won so this thing isn't over in five. Will be good to see some drama hopefully and more bad blood.

Just remember LeBron is a blown fourth quarter Celtics lead away from still being ringless and ridiculed.

[Androidpk]

Just remember LeBron is a blown fourth quarter Celtics lead away from still being ringless and ridiculed.

He got a ring last year, as much as it pains me to say.

[Keller]

Left Latrin rep, but I can't give more today so Drew is saved. Here is what would have gone in your rep.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18p4oblhv9c83gif/ku-xlarge.gif

[Atlanteax]

Lebron certainly does seem to be backing up his statement about flopping as a viable strategy.

That is pretty horrible for 'the best basketball player in the world' ... you would have never seen MJ do that.

(yes the Pacer guy tried to flop after feeling Lebron on him and flopping off, but Lebron is clearly the worse offender there)

[Keller]

Lebron certainly does seem to be backing up his statement about flopping as a viable strategy.

That is pretty horrible for 'the best basketball player in the world' ... you would have never seen MJ do that.

(yes the Pacer guy tried to flop after feeling Lebron on him and flopping off, but Lebron is clearly the worse offender there)

LeBron tripped West. Look at the feet.

I love LBJ. I've been pretty consistent that I think he is the best basketball player on the planet. I'd say the most dominant non-center in the NBA ever. But this has got to stop. He doesn't have enough goodwill with non-Miami fans to overcome this. MJ didn't flop like that. Kobe didn't flop like that. Lebron - stop flopping.

[DoctorUnne]

He got a ring last year, as much as it pains me to say.

Celtics had a double digit lead in game 7 against Miami, and had a lead in the 4th quarter. Miami was obv the better team, but that series very easily could have gone the other way and then LeBron wouldn't have his ring

[Atlanteax]

LeBron tripped West. Look at the feet.

Sure there is that, but West is throwing up his hands and adding a stumble to it. He probably could had held his ground, but just did not want to miss out on getting a foul/flop called on Lebron and/or to protect himself from being whistled for a foul due to Lebron's flop.

[Latrinsorm]

Pretty funny that Heat fans want to complain about the Wade travel (which was a travel) and the sixth foul on James (which was his seventh of the game), but neglect to mention the missed 24 second call, which was a +4 pt swing for the Pacers.

Homers gonna homer for the Heat.Pointing out your rabid paranoia is not the same as complaining. It is possible for both you and the Miami fans supposedly complaining about officiating to be incorrect, and this is one of those times.

I also don't understand how the 24 second call (which was missed) resulted in the Pacers not playing defense on the other end, Joey Crawford is more powerful than I give him credit for. At best the call cost you 2 pts from Hansbrough's lay-in, and I say "at best" because it may not have happened if Miami hadn't stopped at the whistle.

And the Wade travel was not a travel. You get two steps, his second foot was still down, just like everyone else who has ever taken a step-back jumper. The travel before that was a travel, but that's not what they called.
That is pretty horrible for 'the best basketball player in the world' ... you would have never seen MJ do that.How quickly they forget... I am on record declaring MJ as the best of all time, but nostalgia has blinded you. Don't take my word for it, take a stroll down youtube.
Kobe didn't flop like that.Manu Ginobili's nose would like a word with you.

[Latrinsorm]

And it's definitely true that except for the time he won a championship, LeBron has never won a championship. I'm not totally sure why that matters, or how that makes him different from any other player in the natural universe, but it's true.

[DoctorUnne]

I'm not drastically altering history to make the statement I made. And I'm not trying to detract from his championship, just pointing out that there is a pretty fine line between winning and losing in reality, but there's a gigantic gulf in perception.

[Androidpk]

This is both sad and hilarious all at the same time.



http://i40.tinypic.com/1oskzb.jpg

[DoctorUnne]

I didn't realize how bad Wade has been this postseason. Averaging only 14 ppg after 21 in the regular season. Not getting to the line at all. A 2nd team all-NBA player according to Latrin should play better than this. It's a testament to how good LeBron is that Miami can still dominate at times despite this.

[SHAFT]

Both teams fined for flops

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1656319-nba-fines-lebron-james-david-west-and-lance-stephenson-for-game-4-flop-fest

[Keller]

Both teams fined for flops

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1656319-nba-fines-lebron-james-david-west-and-lance-stephenson-for-game-4-flop-fest

I would be fucking livid if I were Lance.

[Atlanteax]

I would be fucking livid if I were Lance.

Yes, if he got fined $5k, both Lebron and West should be getting fined like $25k.

[Latrinsorm]

Stephenson's is worse because he was trying to draw an elbowing foul, which is an automatic ejection. LeBron's is the most physically outrageous, but he would only have drawn a personal foul. I'm not totally sure why West got dinged, especially since (presumably) the same office had (correctly) retro-called him for the flagrant already.

Really, after you peoples' hysterics over LeBron's non-elbow last year, I would have thought this would be pretty obvious.
I didn't realize how bad Wade has been this postseason. Averaging only 14 ppg after 21 in the regular season. Not getting to the line at all. A 2nd team all-NBA player according to Latrin should play better than this. It's a testament to how good LeBron is that Miami can still dominate at times despite this.He has an owie, and all three Miami opponents were strong defensively in the regular season: Pacers #1, Chicago #6, Milwaukee #12. Plus (or perhaps consequently) his Usage rate has declined from 29.5 to 23.6: 80%. It's not inconceivable that the injury and going against elite defenses would represent the 83% drop in efficiency to get to the overall rate of 67% production.

[Androidpk]

Wade doesn't flop. He has an aggravated knee that makes him fall. :lol:

[Narthsin]

Wade doesn't flop. He has an aggravated knee that makes him fall. :lol:


Riiiight. (http://www.hoopgifs.com/2013/05/dwyane-wade-flop-heat-pacers-game-3.html)

I'm amazed he wasn't fined too.

[Keller]

LOL! Birdman doesn't get ejected for that?

You still want to argue about the refs Drew and Eric? Really?

[Ardwen]

how did Hansborough get a tech for that? I didnt reallize getting hit, twice, was a cause for a call

[Keller]

how did Hansborough get a tech for that? I didnt reallize getting hit, twice, was a cause for a call

He had the wrong jersey on.

[Ardwen]

Your jersey got in the way of Birdman's hands, T on you!

[Keller]

Heat might be the dirtiest team in the NBA. Embarrassing to the sport of basketball.

[SHAFT]

Too bad for pacers fans nba games aren't 2 quarters.

[Keller]

Seriously.

Let me be clear on two points. First, it is undeniable that the refs are in the bag for the Heat. Second, it doesn't matter because Lebron.