Shield Pin

[Suppressed Poet]

Anyone try this out? Looks interesting. I'm curious to see how much weighting it adds to the attack.

[Ardwen]

tried it cant tell without alot more attempts

[tallkris3]

I've got it... pre req for a different move I believe.

I'll see if I can play around with it a bit later. Haven't had a need to do anything but use trample since the Shield points came out. Trample, the CMAN points back from shield bash and the extra CvA from focus make the shield changes all worth it.

[Suppressed Poet]

I don't have a warrior so I can't see how it works.

Does shield pin do a bash and an automatic follow up melee attack, or is it just that it provides that benefit on your next manual attack? If it is the former, how much RT are you seeing?

[HeyJoe]

This is with 3 ranks of bash and 3 ranks of pin.

You attempt to expose a vulnerability with a diversionary shield bash on a grey orc!
[Roll result: 204 (open d100: 95) Bonus: 4]
Your bash connects!
You manage to expose a vulnerability for the briefest of moments!
You swing a maple-hafted veil iron broad axe at a grey orc!
AS: +179 vs DS: +94 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +67 = +190
... and hit for 49 points of damage!
Hard blow to the grey orc's ear!
Deep gash and a terrible headache!
The grey orc is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

[Danical]

I took a few hours to write a VBA module for an MS Access database that analyzes the text data of one or more text files (i.e., GS logs).

It inserts relevant data into Access and then runs a production job in SPSS to determine the interaction between crit weighting and the Shield Pin Result Roll. As always, it seems difficult to pin down crit weighting given PC Dex Bonus + weapon weighting + creature padding + GoS sigils + Unicorns.

Since I don't have an active account, it would seem easier to directly ask Coase:

(1) what is the formula? If not (1), then (2), (3), (4).
(2) does the result roll from shield pin experience diminishing returns?
(3) what is the base crit weighting added, if any?
(4) is there a cap to the amount of crit weighting added?

[Suppressed Poet]

This is with 3 ranks of bash and 3 ranks of pin.

You attempt to expose a vulnerability with a diversionary shield bash on a grey orc!
[Roll result: 204 (open d100: 95) Bonus: 4]
Your bash connects!
You manage to expose a vulnerability for the briefest of moments!
You swing a maple-hafted veil iron broad axe at a grey orc!
AS: +179 vs DS: +94 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +67 = +190
... and hit for 49 points of damage!
Hard blow to the grey orc's ear!
Deep gash and a terrible headache!
The grey orc is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Hmmm...so it appears that it really doesn't do a shield bash with the knockdown / damage / stance pushing effects, but rather it's just an attack that only adds critical weighting. Is that right?

I wonder if the weighting added is based upon the roll result to the bash.

[Suppressed Poet]

Also I wonder if flares or spikes have a chance to activate before the attack swing of the weapon.

[SpiffyJr]

Also I wonder if flares or spikes have a chance to activate before the attack swing of the weapon.

I can test that real fast.

[SpiffyJr]

First two swings... it's like the game knew I was testing. Is there a number cruncher able to tell the amount of crit weighting that added? It's elegant, so +2% DF which gives it 0.2805 against that armor. So, 55 points of raw damage and 41 points of crit damage?



[Roll result: 140 (open d100: 49) Penalties: 19]
Your bash connects!
You manage to expose a vulnerability for the briefest of moments!

** A spike on your spiked glaes greatshield jabs into the frost giant! **
... 10 points of damage!
Strike through the palm!
You swing an elegant vultite morning-star at a frost giant!
AS: +274 vs DS: +151 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +15 = +167
... and hit for 29 points of damage!
Nice puncture to the back, just grazed the spine!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>
STAM:[87/102] (-15)
shield pin giant
You attempt to expose a vulnerability with a diversionary shield bash on a frost giant!
[Roll result: 217 (open d100: 126) Penalties: 19]
Your bash connects!
You manage to expose a vulnerability for the briefest of moments!

** Your spiked glaes greatshield releases a blast of vibrating energy at the frost giant! **

... 25 points of damage!
Strong blow to left leg breaks it!
It is knocked to the ground!
The frost giant is stunned!
You swing an elegant vultite morning-star at a frost giant!
AS: +274 vs DS: +97 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +93 = +299
... and hit for 96 points of damage!
Shot to back shatters bone and vertebrae!
[You have earned 45 recognition points.]

The frost giant cries out in cold agony one last time and dies.
The deep blue glow leaves a frost giant.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

[SpiffyJr]

So, I have a flaring/spiked tower shield with a flaring weapon. That means, for 15 stamina, I get a chance at a spike flare, two regular flares, and crit weighting. Another clip:



You attempt to expose a vulnerability with a diversionary shield bash on a frost giant!
[Roll result: 152 (open d100: 67) Penalties: 24]
Your bash connects!
You manage to expose a vulnerability for the briefest of moments!

** Your spiked glaes greatshield releases a blast of vibrating energy at the frost giant! **

... 10 points of damage!
Blow connects with abdomen.
You swing an elegant vultite morning-star at a frost giant!
AS: +274 vs DS: +151 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +7 = +159
... and hit for 27 points of damage!
Blow to back cracks several vertebrae.

** Your vultite morning-star flares with a burst of flame! **

... 30 points of damage!
Nasty burns to chest make you wish you never heard of heartburn.
The frost giant is stunned!
The frost giant howls in agony as the flames dance over his body!
... 30 points of damage!
Nasty burns to abdomen, a frost giant shrieks in pain!

Roundtime: 5 sec.

[celtani]

First hit, rank 3 crit to the back, 15 crit damage, 14 raw damage. Crit divisor is 7, minimum damage+weighting to get a rank 3 crit is 21. So that's at least 7 points of weighting.

Second hit, rank 8 crit to the bank, 40 crit damage, 56 raw damage. Crit divisor is still 7, minimum damage+weighting to get a rank 8 is 56. Can't tell anything there.

edit: Third hit, rank 2, 10 crit damage, 17 raw, minimum damage+weighting 14, maximum damage+weighting 34 (because if you got to 35, you couldn't get a rank 2). So the maximum weighting here is 17.

[SpiffyJr]

First hit, rank 3 crit to the back, 15 crit damage, 14 raw damage. Crit divisor is 7, minimum damage+weighting to get a rank 3 crit is 21. So that's at least 7 points of weighting.

Second hit, rank 8 crit to the bank, 40 crit damage, 56 raw damage. Crit divisor is still 7, minimum damage+weighting to get a rank 8 is 56. Can't tell anything there.

edit: Third hit, rank 2, 10 crit damage, 17 raw, minimum damage+weighting 14, maximum damage+weighting 34 (because if you got to 35, you couldn't get a rank 2). So the maximum weighting here is 17.

Hrm, not too bad. 14-17 points of weighting for a 150 end roll isn't too shabby at all. That's only 4 ranks of bash and 3 ranks of pin.

[celtani]

If this works the same way as most of the other shield attacks, there's a hidden roll in the middle, so we probably won't be able to find a direct connection between cman endroll and weighting added.

edit: To clarify, on that third hit, there's no specific amount of weighting that is definitely present -- you could get that hit with no weighting at all. We just know you didn't get 17 or more points of weighting, because then you would've hit him harder.

[Suppressed Poet]

Don't forget to factor in the mysterious natural dex weighting based on your characters dex bonus, but still this looks like a pretty bomb ass cman if you use a tower spiked and flaring shield for the point cost. Ensorcell would be a nice thing too with a return to stamina.

[tallkris3]

I played around with it for a day... I'd rather open ambush the critter's head with my 50 ranks of ambush / 202 ranks of CM then bother using pin.

While the weighting is nice (no clue how much it is) the shot to the head/neck is FAR more fatal.

[Emo]

I played around with it some. Using Shield Strike and Shield Strike Mastery is more fun. With shield strike, you can knock down and then follow up with a swing in the same amount of RT as a swing (at least with my morning star and +22 AGI/DEX bonus). With Shield Strike Mastery and 30 ranks of MO, I get two attacks followed by a chance for knockdown.

[Danical]

If anyone wants to send me some logs, I would be very appreciative. You'll have to include your Dex Bonus. You can't use a crit weighted or damage weighted weapon and you can't use Funfist sigils against hated foes.

[Suppressed Poet]

As a bard, I'm actually jealous of warriors right now. They really have come a long way in development recently from the armor points to all of this new stuff in quick time.

[Danical]

As a bard, I'm actually jealous of warriors right now. They really have come a long way in development recently from the armor points to all of this new stuff in quick time.

No profession comes close to the effectiveness and efficiency of Bards in a post-cap environment with their wildly broken spells (e.g., 1030, 1035). Every time I switched from Gnimble to my warrior or paladin I always felt so much slower. Can you believe I actually had to "set up" creatures? What is this nonsense?! Granted post-cap being part of the puzzle, so to speak.

Although, it is interesting to note that if the population of the game was what it was around 94/95, Bards wouldn't be able to pop of open 1030 haphazardly without making a whole lot of enemies.