New Shield CMANs

[Lord Orbstar]

It looked interesting enough to dust off my level 57 paladin. Anyone played with them yet? I fixskilled into this, but have not hunted yet:

Methous, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shield Bash sbash 5
Shield Charge scharge 2
Specialization I wspec1 4
Surge of Strength surge 2

Number of days remaining in your current 30-day unlearning cycle: 29 days
>shield info
Methous, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Tower Shield Focus tfocus 4
Shield Charge charge 5
Shield Forward forward 3
Protective Wall pwall 2
Shield Strike strike 4
Steely Resolve resolve 1


Methous (at level 57), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Shield Use.........................| 218 118
Combat Maneuvers...................| 193 93
Blunt Weapons......................| 218 118
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 145 45
Physical Fitness...................| 165 65
Dodging............................| 157 57
Harness Power......................| 148 48
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 114 28
Perception.........................| 35 7
Climbing...........................| 99 23
Swimming...........................| 86 19

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 30

[Jace Solo]

57 and not in FP. Tisk

[Lord Orbstar]

I could...but would hate to give up my spells! Mbp is ok.

[thefarmer]

Methous (at level 57), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Shield Use.........................| 218 118
Combat Maneuvers...................| 193 93
Blunt Weapons......................| 218 118
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 145 45
Physical Fitness...................| 165 65
Dodging............................| 157 57
Harness Power......................| 148 48
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 114 28
Perception.........................| 35 7
Climbing...........................| 99 23
Swimming...........................| 86 19

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 30


You're doing it wrong.

[Homur]

I see you have 2 ranks of charge from cmans and 5 ranks from shield; do the systems stack on top of one another for uber bashing?

Your shield-mans look fine though, I think you'll enjoy them alot. I was debating switching my paladin to dual maces, but after these were released the thought hasn't crossed my mind.

As for training, if you drop dodging you could justify grabbing a tower shield & free up 285/114 to dump into armor & almost get to 1635. Though with a shield i dunno that either of those really need to be priorities given that you're gonna be pretty tough to take down already.

Also, Pwall owns.

[lordsmo]

Carrying a tower shield and wearing MBP your 57 ranks of dodge are generating approximately 13 melee DS in offensive stance, so there may be a better use for those points. Also, as mentioned by thefarmer, 90 ranks of armor will minimize Paladin circle spell hinderance for MBP, and 1635 is extremely good.

[Lord Orbstar]

i will up the armor to 90, drop some dodge or all of it and get 1635. Thank you for the advice. I just reactivated him yesterday

[Lord Orbstar]

Dropping Dodge gave me a LOT of points to use. It will be a while since I have to migrate, but it will be better. Also, my CMANs were mistaken..I meant to have a couple ranks of disarm weapon and not duplicate shield charge in both systems. Thank you for pointing that out.

Methous (at level 57), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 180 80 90 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Shield Use.........................| 218 118 118
Combat Maneuvers...................| 193 93 96 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Blunt Weapons......................| 218 118 118
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 145 45 55 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Physical Fitness...................| 165 65 87 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Dodging............................| 156 56.968 0 55 days, 1 hour, 5 minutes
Harness Power......................| 148 48 48
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 114 28 28
Perception.........................| 35 7 7
Climbing...........................| 99 23 23
Swimming...........................| 86 19 19

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20 20

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 30 35 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Training Points: 0 Phy 0 Mnt (30 Phy converted to Mnt)


Methous, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Tower Shield Focus tfocus 4
Shield Charge charge 5
Shield Forward forward 3
Protective Wall pwall 2
Shield Strike strike 4
Steely Resolve resolve 1


>cman info
>
Methous, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shield Bash sbash 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 2
Specialization I wspec1 4
Surge of Strength surge 2

Number of days remaining in your current 30-day unlearning cycle: 29 days
>

[DrZaius]

I tried Prop Up. Turns out, crits don't knock me over that often; mostly it's random other crap (like storm giants blowing me over, that sort of thing).

I am a big fan of shield strike, and have now put my points in shield strike mastery, which I hope to test out soon.

I also got Protective Wall since I have a nice tower shield, and it seemed like an area where I was taking the most damage (i.e., prone and stuck in RT while in offensive). I may go back to large shield if it proves to not be as effective, plus I like my large shield better (it flares!)

My goal was to get some more ranks of sbash/shield strike, but I may consider shield forward if everyone says it's awesome. Currently I think I have 3 ranks each of sbash/sstrike.

-DrZ

[Archigeek]

I tried forward, and found the duration (15 seconds) to be too short for my liking. I otherwise like it, and it may be more to the benefit of a paladin than a warrior, since we (warriors) can more cheaply get ranks of shield use, so an extra 30 ranks doesn't mean as much. Additionally, if you were using strike all the time it would be a very nice combination. I was using trample, so in many cases I end up knocking down everything in the room, so the extra shield defense rarely came into play.

If melee attacks were my prime method of attack, I think I would for sure be testing out strike. It sounds effective. If I could set it up to hurl instead of swing, I'd be all over it.

[DrZaius]

I tried forward, and found the duration (15 seconds) to be too short for my liking. I otherwise like it, and it may be more to the benefit of a paladin than a warrior, since we (warriors) can more cheaply get ranks of shield use, so an extra 30 ranks doesn't mean as much. Additionally, if you were using strike all the time it would be a very nice combination. I was using trample, so in many cases I end up knocking down everything in the room, so the extra shield defense rarely came into play.

If melee attacks were my prime method of attack, I think I would for sure be testing out strike. It sounds effective. If I could set it up to hurl instead of swing, I'd be all over it.

I also am trying to do warcamps now without getting murmaidered, so anything that improves my survivability against a group of enemies wailing on me is appreciated. The way I warcamp (hiding in the front door, bailing as soon as it gets too hairy) makes me think that 15 seconds would be a long enough duration for most of what I need the extra DS for.

EDIT: Paladins also only get to 2x Shield Use; another reason to be more discerning in our Shield Skills.
EDIT2: I also wonder how useful Protective Wall will be, considering I can 1635 my way out of 4/6 conditions it helps with, and it forces me into using a tower shield.

[Archigeek]

I think you should try it in combination with strike: the strike gives you the offensive shield maneuver and your main attack all in one and thereby saves you RT, and it would activate shield forward all in one. In one maneuver, you'd get a knock down, an attack, and a shield DS/blocking bonus. Sounds like win win to me.

[Archigeek]

I use protective wall, and while I think it's helpful, it's one of those that's a little hard to gauge just how helpful it is. I think it's one of those skills that will save your butt and you won't even know it.

[Danical]

I also am trying to do warcamps now without getting murmaidered, so anything that improves my survivability against a group of enemies wailing on me is appreciated. The way I warcamp (hiding in the front door, bailing as soon as it gets too hairy) makes me think that 15 seconds would be a long enough duration for most of what I need the extra DS for.

EDIT: Paladins also only get to 2x Shield Use; another reason to be more discerning in our Shield Skills.
EDIT2: I also wonder how useful Protective Wall will be, considering I can 1635 my way out of 4/6 conditions it helps with, and it forces me into using a tower shield.

Pickles totally agrees.

[DrZaius]

I use protective wall, and while I think it's helpful, it's one of those that's a little hard to gauge just how helpful it is. I think it's one of those skills that will save your butt and you won't even know it.

I think it may end up being a "nice to have" as opposed to a "required". I have not yet gotten a chance to use shield strike mastery, and am looking forward to the results. Additionally, since my Paladin is only 38 there are a limited number of skills I can fiddle around with given the fact I only have so many ranks.

-DrZ

[Lord Orbstar]

On my paladin, I have been less than impressed with Shield Strike. I have done it several times with only a couple knockdowns and laughable damage. It does activate my Shield Forward though. I have used Shield Charge too and have missed with it too much. It is bettter just to bash them with my damn morningstar.

[Drinin]

I'm similar in level on my paladin so I'll throw him up:

at level 60), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 230 130
Shield Use.........................| 220 120
Combat Maneuvers...................| 211 111
Edged Weapons......................| 224 124
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 162 62
Dodging............................| 120 30
Harness Power......................| 160 60
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 50 10
Climbing...........................| 70 15
Swimming...........................| 70 15

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 35
Training Points: 30 Phy 14 Mnt
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Medium Shield Focus mfocus 4
Shield Bash bash 5
Shield Strike strike 5
Shield Strike Mastery strikemastery 1

Available Shield Training Points: 2

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 4
Feint feint 5
Specialization I wspec1 3
Surge of Strength surge 1
Cunning Defense cdefense 5

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 2


I'm liking shield strike so far. I get a decent amount of knockdowns and a swing all in 5 seconds of rt. I'd love to find a sancted 6x+ shield that I can throw some guiding light flares on.

Strikemastery is OK. I haven't decided on that one yet as it's only firing off on about 50% of my mstrikes.

I'm planning on picking up eblock by the time I'm in OTF to hopefully reduce my chances of dieing to those goddamn crystal flares. Other than that I'm not sure where I'll spend the rest of my SHIELD points.

[thefarmer]

I see a few builds with dodge and shield use.

I'm going to suggest that you dump dodge all together and get more shield ranks. We didn't need dodge before with shield builds, now there's even more reason to get as many shield ranks as possible.

At least get shield use to max, then if you really want a few piddly DS points, you can fill in any extra trps with Dodge.

[Drinin]

Before the shield CMAN's I was 1x in dodge and shield use. I fixskilled over to a 2x shield/.5x dodge and saw around a +10 increase in offensive DS. Another 2 levels and I'll be caught up on doubling CM and then . . . I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my tp's. My only goal is to have 140 by level 90. Suppose I can pick up some lores or something.

[DrZaius]

On my paladin, I have been less than impressed with Shield Strike. I have done it several times with only a couple knockdowns and laughable damage. It does activate my Shield Forward though. I have used Shield Charge too and have missed with it too much. It is bettter just to bash them with my damn morningstar.

It's been hit or miss with me.

My current issue is that I may need to carry 2 different shields; I have a sancted tower that is less effective but can hit undead, and a lighting flaring large that I will probably use more often. My shield strike on strike mastery is going off most of the time; the monster has to not be knocked prone from the mstrike, and the mstrike needs to be focused.

Shield forward is working (I think); I just wish there was some messaging or timer for when it was on/expired. I may do some testing later to see how effective it is.

Dumb question:
Am I getting any benefit from my shield ranks in offensive, or do I need to be in advanced to see their benefits? The DS formula on krakiipedia leads me to believe in offensive I'm multiplying by 0.

[HeyJoe]

I've noticed with shield forward that it does pop in and out of my active spells window on SF.

[Lord Orbstar]

I wonder is my shield strike is less effective because I am using a tower. Is it easier to pop off an offensive cman with a smaller shield? I have a 6x bucker and 4x medium (fusion) and 4x tower shield currently.

[thefarmer]

Got spikes?

[Archigeek]

If you read the help doc's, some of them will tell you if there's an advantage or a requirement for a large or small shield, or even in some cases each size has an advantage.

I have a bunch of random shields laying around. I'll see if any of them are sancted and can lend them for testing. I believe I saw an eonake aegis in the pawnshop yesterday. Probably in Icemule.

[Lord Orbstar]

I have no spikes. :( perhaps a shield I could put guiding light flares on would be best

[Archigeek]

Spikes are over-rated. The flares are underwhelming and the penalty is irksome. If you have the shield points to train in spike mastery or whatever maybe that would make them worth it, but as paladins I doubt you have the points to spare on that.

Also, I just checked and out of 20 random shields I own, none of them are santified. I could have sworn I owned at least one. Guess not.

[lordsmo]

Dumb question:
Am I getting any benefit from my shield ranks in offensive, or do I need to be in advanced to see their benefits? The DS formula on krakiipedia leads me to believe in offensive I'm multiplying by 0.

The "stance modifier" in that formula is actually 0.5 + stance/2, so in offensive the modifier becomes 0.50. In advance its 0.6, forwards 0.7 neutral 0.8, guarded 0.9 and defensive 1.0. So definitely still a lot of DS being generated by shield ranks in offensive stance.

[rushblitz]

Big thing about shield forward for me has been not the added shield ranks for DS but the increase in BLOCK %. It doesn't say how much it is but it seems noticeable to me.

Took a look at shield forward wording again. Doesn't say increase % to block but just additional ranks of shield. What I might be seeing from the increase of shield ranks is that I'm hitting the 2x threshold when up hunting. Example lvl 50, fully 2x against a level 54 creature. I'm 4 levels behind it, yet with shield forward 10 ranks = 5 levels. I gain 5% block.