Violation System Questions

[Parkbandit]

Ok.. couple questions:

1) What is to prevent me from making 3 different accounts.. Parkbandit, Falgrin, The Mighty Dwarf and simply moving from one account to another when the demerit points approach my banning?

2) Will there be a system in place that keeps track of our demerit points or do we have to manually add up all of our U2U warnings?

3) Am I the only one that thinks this demerit thing is a little over the deep end?

[imported_Kranar]

1) What is to prevent me from making 3 different accounts.. Parkbandit, Falgrin, The Mighty Dwarf and simply moving from one account to another when the demerit points approach my banning?


Violations are issued to a member, not to an account. Your violation count is the sum of all violations from all your accounts. If you get a count of 49 on 3 accounts, and I finally determine that those three accounts are one member, than your violation count is 147, and you would be banned for 441 days.



Will there be a system in place that keeps track of our demerit points or do we have to manually add up all of our U2U warnings?


Every time you are issued a violation, your total violation count will be told to you.



3) Am I the only one that thinks this demerit thing is a little over the deep end?

No you're not. I have had the details of this system for a long time and always had it as a last resort.

Unfortunately, we're at that point.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Just start banning people. Grow a set and do it, and you don't need the "desperate last measures".

Three people banned and your problems go away. Maybe four. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to see who drops fuckstain, shit, loser and bitch in ever post. What does that add?

U2U me for suggestions.

[Edited on 10-28-2004 by Suppa Hobbit Mage]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Just start banning people. Grow a set and do it, and you don't need the "desperate last measures".

Three people banned and your problems go away. Maybe four. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to see who drops fuckstain, shit, loser and bitch in ever post. What does that add?

U2U me for suggestions.

[Edited on 10-28-2004 by Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Hey fuck you, you loser fuckstain bitch. Keep me out of it! I HAVE AS MUCH RIGHT TO BE HERE AS YOU DO!

To keep on topic, how many demerits would I have gotten from the above comment IF I did it post 11/1

Edited to add the term : Shit.

[Edited on 10-28-2004 by Parkbandit]

[HarmNone]

Heh. Probably none, PB. :D

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Just start banning people. Grow a set and do it, and you don't need the "desperate last measures".

Three people banned and your problems go away. Maybe four. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to see who drops fuckstain, shit, loser and bitch in ever post. What does that add?

U2U me for suggestions.

[Edited on 10-28-2004 by Suppa Hobbit Mage]

It isnt always that easy either, look at Bob's situation and how people reacted to that. When it has come down to discretion, it's arguable. WHen there are clear guidelines/systems, it gets rid of the perceived bias.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

In our efforts to be "fair" we subject ourselves to immaturity and annoyance.

And PB is a fuckstain bitch loser shithead.

[imported_Kranar]

This forum has been through several staff members and administrators who have quit from thinking that the solution to these problems would easy. It's been shutdown once by an administrator, and came close to getting shutdown again by another administrator.

Running the forums isn't as easy as it may look, and as stupid or silly as this system may be, it is the best thing I have to maintain the 800+ posts and 300 000 hits a day we're getting.

[Parkbandit]

I hope it maintains the 800+ posts and 300,000 hits per day when this system is implemented. You really won't have to worry about a demerit system when the post count drops to 5 per day by your MOD crew.

Ask Klaive.

[Nieninque]

A little overdramatic PB

[Parkbandit]

I've seen it happen to popular message boards that are now non-existent.

And SHM is a loser bitch fuckstain shit for brains.

[HarmNone]

For me, there will be little change from what I've been doing all along. I think that's true for most of the posters, as well as the moderators.

Kranar has stated that the system will evolve to meet the needs of the boards. Instead of assuming that this is the beginning of the end, let's wait and see how things work out. I'm betting there will be little, if any, noticeable difference for the vast majority of posters. :)

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I've seen it happen to popular message boards that are now non-existent.

And SHM is a loser bitch fuckstain shit for brains.

Yeah but this message board is popular because of the people that post here, not just because of the boards themselves.

The staff are the same, the rules are the same. The posters are the same and with a bit of luck the only things that will be different will be a lack of the arseholes like Coiner and Psykos etc.

The boards will still be the best

[imported_Kranar]

<< I hope it maintains the 800+ posts and 300,000 hits per day when this system is implemented. >>

I wouldn't mind taking a drop in posts and in hits if it means getting rid of a lot of the junk that's posted.

300,000 hits and 800+ posts is nothing to brag or even care about if they're coming from non-stop flamers and those who want to use the entire forums to themselves to chase others away.

Since I don't make a penny off of these forums, infact I lose more money the more people come here, I don't gain anything from the quantity of the forums. This month I had to upgrade the server the forums run on yet again, to compensate for increased volume. So my only gain, if any, comes from the quality of the forums as a community.

[Edited on 10-28-2004 by Kranar]

[imported_Kranar]

<< The boards will still be the best >>

Every now and then someone makes the claim that the end of the Players' Corner has arrived.

And every now and then, the forums get that much bigger.

The irony is that the only consistent threat the Players' Corner has ever had, is of growing so big that no one would be willing to pay for it.

so take donations again :snickers:

[Xcalibur]

I think it's a very bad idea.

It's like treating posters as children, who cannot behave.

Example: Me laughing of Nien thing because she plays a bug character in gemstone.

Now every now and then, she bashes on me, alter my pictures, et cetera.

Who is the stupid in all this? The 2, I agree.

Still, that demerit stuff won't change that.

I would suggest putting a 60 seconds counter between each post, and increasing it for "bad posters", to become 10 seconds each time, bla bla bla.

That demerit point is open to subjective judgement, and we all saw what happened with that with Power Tripper Tsa.

[imported_Kranar]

<< It's like treating posters as children, who cannot behave. >>

Many of whom are children or act like one and don't behave. Correct.

<< so take donations again >>

This is a possibility.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< The boards will still be the best >>

Every now and then someone makes the claim that the end of the Players' Corner has arrived.

And every now and then, the forums get that much bigger.

The irony is that the only consistent threat the Players' Corner has ever had, is of growing so big that no one would be willing to pay for it.

I hope you don't think I was forecasting the end of the PC.. because I didn't. I am simply voicing my concerns over an anally retentive demerit system. I tend to toe the line when it comes to the TOS.. so I don't think I have anything to worry about. I haven't received a single warning that I am aware of here yet.. but it's still a concern as to how far this new system will go.

[Xcalibur]

It's a measure against 1% of people, including me (I'm not that stupid).

So I think all of this is too much, just put a counter of those people, 60 seconds per post, or something.

You'll save yourself a lot of time. Or just ban them as said suppa stuff.

No one likes a controled situation, and even less with conditions as this.

[crazymage]

Is X getting less coherent?


P.S Parkbandit is a sperm guzzling fuck nugget

[imported_Kranar]

The other alternative was to keep this system hidden from you guys.

I mean one way or another, a systemic means of keeping track of violations was going to be implemented. The violations folder on the Players' Corner was an absolute monster, it was hard to filter through past violations and keep track of many of the new ones. It simply wasn't intended to keep track of the over 4000 posts made with regards to forum violations over the past 14 months.

So I could have implemented this system and just never told anyone other than staff about it, and that's still possible too if people have a problem with terms like "demerit" or "points". I just figured I'd let you guys know how violations will be dealt with in a specific manner.

[Edited on 10-28-2004 by Kranar]

[imported_Kranar]

And having said that, what would you guys prefer?

Should this system be one that's run in the background? That way it doesn't seem so much in your face and you don't feel so pressured and pushed around by it?

Or is doing that insincere on the part of staff? Having a way of enforcing policy but not being open and straight forward about that enforcement?

As far as that issue goes, I am entirely indifferent. I just know I need the system as a means of keeping track of violations and getting staff on the same page, but as far as the appearance of the system for member of the forums, whatever floats your boat I'm happy with doing.

I can see arguements for and against hiding the system, I just figured most members would be complaining if we did keep it in the background rather than openly admit it.

[Xcalibur]

Only seen by the one having those points.

example: I have 30 points, I can see it, no one beside the mods can also know about it.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Only seen by the one having those points. >>

How is this different from what is now being proposed?

[Parkbandit]

I would prefer to not let everyone see the points. I know I will be inspired to get people I dislike banned when they approach 50 points.

Call it a character flaw :D

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I would prefer to not let everyone see the points. I know I will be inspired to get people I dislike banned when they approach 50 points.

Call it a character flaw :D

Or being an asshole. :saint:

[Parkbandit]

Heh.. yea.. that too.

:D

PS - TELL me you wouldn't do it either bitch!

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
It's a measure against 1% of people, including me (I'm not that stupid).

So I think all of this is too much, just put a counter of those people, 60 seconds per post, or something.

You'll save yourself a lot of time. Or just ban them as said suppa stuff.

No one likes a controled situation, and even less with conditions as this.

I think you would be very correct in saying that this is a measure against a small percentage of the membership. It is after all a very small percentage of the membership that is problematic.

The problem has never been with post counts, and mechanics are already in place that prevent machine gun posting. I don't believe that has ever been a problem.

[Parkbandit]

Xcalibur

Une histoire à oublier

Posts: 5223
Registered 6-16-2003
RPG Character:
Location: Québec
Status: Offline

Mood: 19" and growing

Demerit points: 49


TELL me you wouldn't post something to goat him into saying something against TOS!

[Nieninque]

I would!
I would!

[Xcalibur]

It will happen, that's very obvious.

People will provoke others hoping it will get to that.

But, BUT, I'm smart, unlike many:saint:

[SpunGirl]

I think demerit points should be between the staff and the member, of course, but I would prefer that the system is run with full knowledge of the members. Before the Bob incident, I wasn't aware we had violation folders in the mods area.

Also, Kranar, I would fully donate again. I already did once, because I :heart: PC, good, bad, and X.

-K

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Just ban the idiots and then we don't have a need for it. If it was my boards, I'd just whack the shit out of a few people that post only to cause problems. 1 wk ban here and there, they'd eventually stop or get perma banned.

My ban list would include X, Klaive, rangerprincess or whatever her name is, Stainly before he reformed, Psykos... maybe a couple more.

You are implimenting a whole structured violations system for a relatively small amount of people. Just start the common sense "you are disruptive, sit in a corner for a week" bans and things will get fixed by themselves.

Just my opinion, but shit, do we need rules for everything? It's common sense, not rocket science.

[Xcalibur]

I totaly agree with the old fart.

Spun, you like me? EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Latrinsorm]

Violation System Question:

Will mods be held to the same, higher, or lower standards in regards to # of demerit points needed for ban and # of demerit points assigned for breaking a rule?

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Xcalibur

But, BUT, I'm smart

:rofl:

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Violation System Question:

Will mods be held to the same, higher, or lower standards in regards to # of demerit points needed for ban and # of demerit points assigned for breaking a rule?

Logicaly, the same.

That's why it must be hidden, otherwise if we see that, for example, that mod has 20 demerit points... Impartiality will be hard to keep and so on.

That system won't work, anyway, but hey.

Nieninque: enough, already. Stop your 1 smily post, please.

[Edited on 28-10-04 by Xcalibur]

[Edited on 10-28-2004 by HarmNone]

[Brattt8525]

You are implimenting a whole structured violations system for a relatively small amount of people. Just start the common sense "you are disruptive, sit in a corner for a week" bans and things will get fixed by themselves.
SHM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I like his idea better then the demerit system. We are talking about a very small group of people who fall in the "need" of this new system.

[Ravenstorm]

People were crying favoritism over Bob's ban; I don't want to read another hundred threads about every other ban if Kranar should decide to do so every time he just thought one fo the problem children crossed the line. This way there's at least some concrete, measurable scale to determine when enough is enough.

I'll agree though that one's demerit score should not be public knowledge if that were even being considered. I don't recall seeing that it would be however.

Raven

[HarmNone]

Raven has hit squarely upon the problem. If bannings were arbitrary, like some are suggesting, there would be nothing but whining, puling, and feuding over whether or not someone should have been banned. I don't blame Kranar one bit for not wanting to be subjected to that crap!

[Brattt8525]

Ok I can see your point, but who is to say they aren't going to whine EVEN with the points? Well so and so said this and they didn't get 2 points for it....etc etc etc.

The other way it would rid the boards faster, of the disruptive posters. Also, you know how many points it takes to get banned, so you ride the line. Do you honestly think, they won't?

[HarmNone]

Obviously, that's not the way Kranar sees it. He spent a lot of time and effort to develop a system he feels will be equitable for everyone. Personally, I think we should give it a chance.

[HarmNone]

Another thought...if the only person to see the demerits is the poster against whom they are assessed, nobody will know whether so-and-so got 2 points for what he/she said, or not. ;)

[imported_Kranar]

I didn't mean hidden as in people publically knowing what other members violation counts were... I meant in that a worry many people are having is that the violation system makes them feel like children, or they are worried about all the rules and having to keep track of them and not knowing what to post or what not to post.

To me, these are all problems with appearance of the system, not the system itself. Problems that exist with the wording, like people feel demerit reminds them of school punishments.

If the appearance of this system is an issue, then the system can be hidden so as to not cause this general feeling of worry or intimidation. Because ultimately, this system added only 1 new rule and that's with regards to thread derailments. Apart from that, all this system does is give staff a systemic way of keeping track of violations and a uniform way of applying those violations, and if that systemic way is getting members worried, then I have no problem hiding it if it means keeping enough members comfortable about it.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
I totaly agree with the old fart.

Spun, you like me? EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I meant that I love this board, X, and that I take the good with the bad (hopefully until the bad bans itself into oblivion). Since "bad" does not adequately describe you, I felt that you deserved your own little mention in my post. Satisfied?

-K

[Xcalibur]

I consider myself in the "bad" side of the forum, I'm not that hypocrite, you know.

At least 75% of the time actually.

Then for the question, I'd say shown.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
I consider myself in the "bad" side of the forum, I'm not that hypocrite, you know.

At least 75% of the time actually.

Then for the question, I'd say shown.

This begs a question. If you know you are "in the bad side of the forum", why do you continue to post in the way you do? Are we to assume that your purpose for being here is to disrupt the boards, Xcalibur? Enquiring minds want to know...