Trample

[tallkris3]

Man I love the new move trample.


You raise your mithril aegis before you and charge headlong towards a triton radical!
[Roll result: 184 (open d100: 63) Bonus: 15]
Your charge connects!
You slam into the triton radical, who is sent careening headlong into a nearby group of combatants as he falls to the ground!

A triton magus is struck!
[Roll result: 210 (open d100: 74) Bonus: 25]
The triton magus is knocked to the ground!

A triton combatant is struck!
[Roll result: 177 (open d100: 56) Bonus: 15]
The triton combatant is knocked to the ground!

A triton radical is struck!
[Roll result: 142 (open d100: 21) Bonus: 15]
The triton radical is knocked to the ground!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
R>stance off
> mstrike
Your rage causes you to use all of your skill in an all out attack! You are unable to change your stance.
>
You are still a bit winded from your last flurry of attacks, but you focus to push the strain in your muscles from your mind.
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With instinctive motions, you weave to and fro striking with deliberate and unrelenting fury!
You swing a vicious onyx-handled spikestar at a triton radical!
AS: +618 vs DS: +298 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +12 = +363
... and hit for 112 points of damage!
Bladder impaled, what a mess!
You swing a vicious onyx-handled spikestar at a triton magus!
AS: +618 vs DS: +320 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +82 = +415
... and hit for 173 points of damage!
Massive blow punches a hole through the triton magus's chest!
The triton magus gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on his face.
The bright luminescence fades from around a triton magus.
A triton magus seems to lose an aura of confidence.
A triton magus is no longer moving so silently.
A triton magus appears less powerful.
The silvery luminescence fades from around a triton magus.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a triton magus.
The warm glow fades from around a triton magus.
A triton magus seems slightly different.
You swing a vicious onyx-handled spikestar at a triton radical!
The triton radical rolls to one side and parries the attack with his trident!
You swing a vicious onyx-handled spikestar at a triton combatant!
AS: +618 vs DS: +206 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +44 = +478
... and hit for 135 points of damage!
Awesome shot collapses a lung!
You swing a vicious onyx-handled spikestar at a triton magus!
AS: +618 vs DS: +304 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +35 = +384
... and hit for 133 points of damage!
Tremendous blow crushes skull like a ripe melon.
The triton magus gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face.
The bright luminescence fades from around a triton magus.
A triton magus seems to lose an aura of confidence.
A triton magus is no longer moving so silently.
A triton magus appears less powerful.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a triton magus.
A triton magus returns to normal color.
The air about a triton magus stops shimmering.
You swing a vicious onyx-handled spikestar at a triton combatant!
AS: +618 vs DS: +163 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +91 = +568
... and hit for 136 points of damage!
Left arm ripped from socket at the elbow!
The triton combatant gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on his face.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a triton combatant.

Your flurry of strikes leaves you off-balance and out of position.
Roundtime: 8 sec.

[Middian]

Looks good

[Fallen]

That looked surprisingly effective. Nice.

[Archigeek]

It's awesome if you're trained right for it. With lot's of MOC, shield training, trample and trample mastery, you can get some nice knock downs. Most I've gotten so far was 5.

One trick is to stun the easiest critter in the room, then knock it down for a sure knock down... everyone else in the room then has to pass/fail. If you try the toughest thing in the room and fail, no one else faces the check.

[Jace Solo]

What's the stats on that star?

[tallkris3]

It's awesome if you're trained right for it. With lot's of MOC, shield training, trample and trample mastery, you can get some nice knock downs. Most I've gotten so far was 5.

One trick is to stun the easiest critter in the room, then knock it down for a sure knock down... everyone else in the room then has to pass/fail. If you try the toughest thing in the room and fail, no one else faces the check.

5 critters? You sure? Reading all the info on Trample and Trample Mastery, the max should be 4 critters.

I think the only thing that could make my trample better was if I used a tower over a large shield.


What's the stats on that star?

7x, 4lbs, perfect forging, disintegration flares, with one of those fluff only snakes on it.

[Archigeek]

Skill Name: Shield Trample Mastery
Mnemonic: tmastery
Hostile: No
Stamina Cost: None
Other Requirements: 30 Ranks of Multi Opponent Combat.
Available to: Warriors.
Prerequisites:
Shield Trample (at rank 3)
Shield Point Cost:
Rank 1: 8
Rank 2: 10
Rank 3: 12
Description: You have perfected the art of maneuvering your foes into the most vulnerable positions to trample under.
Mechanics: Each rank of Shield Trample Mastery adds an additional foe to the maximum number of targets of a Shield Trample attempt.

That's three on top of what you get for trample training, which I think is 2:



Skill Name: Shield Trample
Mnemonic: trample
Hostile: Yes
Stamina Cost: Base 20 (-5 Rank 1, -3 Rank 2)
Other Requirements: Smaller shields provide a penalty to success chances.
Available to: Warriors.
Prerequisites:
Shield Charge (at rank 2) or CML Shield Charge (at rank 2)
Shield Point Cost:
Rank 1: 2
Rank 2: 4
Rank 3: 6
Rank 4: 8
Rank 5: 10
Description: Instead of attempting to wound your foes with a shield charge, you have learned how to best send them careening into one another, knocking them down and sowing havoc on the battlefield.
Mechanics: If you are successful upon attacking your primary target, it will be sent careening into another foe on the battlefield before falling to the ground. If a secondary maneuver check is passed, that foe will also be knocked down. All foes successfully affected by this maneuver will suffer Roundtime.

Here's a sample with 5 knock downs:


>shield tramp bear
You raise your krodera wall shield before you and charge headlong towards a grizzly bear!
[Roll result: 219 (open d100: 18) Penalties: 10]
Your charge connects!
You slam into the grizzly bear, who is sent careening headlong into a nearby group of combatants as he falls to the ground!

A human bandit is struck!
[Roll result: 222 (open d100: 85) Bonus: 22]
The human bandit is knocked to the ground!

An arctic wolverine is struck!
[Roll result: 323 (open d100: 71) Bonus: 12]
The arctic wolverine is knocked to the ground!

An arctic wolverine is struck!
[Roll result: 315 (open d100: 69) Bonus: 12]
The arctic wolverine is knocked to the ground!

A grizzly bear is struck!
[Roll result: 218 (open d100: 19) Penalties: 13]
The grizzly bear is knocked to the ground!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

[rolfard]

its like a game of 10 pins, who can trample the most!

[tallkris3]

Yep I stand corrected. My own clip below.

I thought you got 1 as a base, and mastery added on three more.


You raise your mithril aegis before you and charge headlong towards a human thug!
[Roll result: 203 (open d100: 83) Bonus: 15]
Your charge connects!
You slam into the human thug, who is sent careening headlong into a nearby group of combatants as she falls to the ground!

A dwarven robber is struck!
[Roll result: 212 (open d100: 91) Bonus: 12]
The dwarven robber is knocked to the ground!

A half-elven thug is struck!
[Roll result: 196 (open d100: 75) Bonus: 12]
The half-elven thug is knocked to the ground!

An elven rogue is struck!
[Roll result: 144 (open d100: 18) Bonus: 12]
The elven rogue is knocked to the ground!

An elven thief is struck!
[Roll result: 135 (open d100: 9) Bonus: 12]
The elven thief is knocked to the ground!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

[Fallen]

Is this maneuver cheap enough for it to be considered a solid method of crowd control for warriors? Or is it prohibitively expensive to use it more than 3-5 times a hunt?

[Jeril]

20 stamina a pop is pretty cheap for stamina cost. At cap with 3x PF I can run surge my whole hunt and still have plenty of stamina to feint and other things without running out.

[Archigeek]

Is this maneuver cheap enough for it to be considered a solid method of crowd control for warriors? Or is it prohibitively expensive to use it more than 3-5 times a hunt?

It is hands down the best method of crowd control in my opinion, assuming you use a shield of course. The success rate is higher than tackle, which makes zero sense, but that's how it goes in Gemstone right? Maybe tackle will catch up. With the right training, you can use it with a high rate of effectiveness, even reasonably well when uphunting.

[tallkris3]

It is hands down the best method of crowd control in my opinion, assuming you use a shield of course. The success rate is higher than tackle, which makes zero sense, but that's how it goes in Gemstone right? Maybe tackle will catch up. With the right training, you can use it with a high rate of effectiveness, even reasonably well when uphunting.

Ditto

Like Jeril I run surge, and feint/mstrike during my hunts and with 3x PF I use this all time with no stamina issues.

All for 5 seconds. Most of my other moves, tackle, bash, charge, etc don't really work very well on Radicals. Ignoring negative rolls I have a 100% chance to ward them with this...

No clue if race matters but I'm a giant... so I'm not sure I could make it any better if I tried outside of using a tower shield over a large shield.

[Archigeek]

I don't use surge, so I can trample all day long.

I am going to explore a few more of the active maneuvers since we are in the grace period, but being a hurler most of the ones that involve parrying and counter striking just don't work with my hunting method. Will probably play around with pin and a couple of others.

So far I am loving Griffin's Voice though for a new CMAN, and some of the passive shield maneuvers. Here's my shield training so far:


Kerl, your Shield Specialization training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Tower Shield Focus tfocus 5
Shield Charge charge 2
Deflection Training dtraining 3
Deflection Mastery dmastery 5
Guard Mastery gmastery 3
Protective Wall pwall 2
Shield Trample trample 5
Shield Trample Mastery tmastery 3

Available Shield Training Points: 55

[Buckwheet]

Kerl, just curious here, do you use a tower only because your tower base stats are so exceptional?

[thefarmer]

There's no reason for him to use anything else. Even excluding his specific krodera one.

[Aganii]

Im curious about the crit weighting on shield pin. Warriors really got some love with these manuevers

[Buckwheet]

There's no reason for him to use anything else. Even excluding his specific krodera one.

I would have thought a medium shield would have performed better with some of the new re-active maneuvers like the knockdown on melee attack where the larger shields get a penalty.

I only ask because with the new skills I am debating on continued use of a small shield on my 3x dodge rogue or moving into a larger shield and using the new abilities to reduce the dodge penalty. Using a small shield with the new ability granted me quite a bit more defense.

[Fallen]

They needed it.

With the armor and shield updates, what would you warriors say the profession needs now? I am hoping for dodge mans primarily for rogues and monks, but with a decent amount of spillover to warriors.

[thefarmer]

Even with the changes, I don't see going down a size, or more, outweighing overall tower shield benefits.

[Buckwheet]

Even with the changes, I don't see going down a size, or more, outweighing overall tower shield benefits.

Such as?

[Archigeek]

Kerl, just curious here, do you use a tower only because your tower base stats are so exceptional?

I converted a large shield to a tower when conversion was first offered because I never thought I'd learn more than 2x dodge, and from a TP perspective, (if you're a warrior and using a shield), you get far more bang for your buck from a larger shield. I have no intention to switch shields at this time because the shield is superior to anything else I've found so far, (6x/4x krodera). It's also an RP/style choice. Wall shields are cool ya know.

The shield maneuvers I've chosen work to the advantages of a tower shield. Where the DS benefits of dodge may be higher, the blocking ability of the tower is superior, and provides a very high DS vs projectiles. These tower-centric shield maneuvers are icing on the cake.

[Archigeek]

I would have thought a medium shield would have performed better with some of the new re-active maneuvers like the knockdown on melee attack where the larger shields get a penalty.

I only ask because with the new skills I am debating on continued use of a small shield on my 3x dodge rogue or moving into a larger shield and using the new abilities to reduce the dodge penalty. Using a small shield with the new ability granted me quite a bit more defense.

I would probably stick with the small shield as a rogue.

As a warrior using a shield regularly, (read: I don't just unsling it when not using my two-hander as some do), I think the tower benefits outweigh the small DS benefits of dodge. It isn't the easiest thing to measure though, since we don't see block/parry/evade formula in action. The numbers we see are the DS ones, so I think some folks focus on that a little too much. There's a lot of value in blocking half the blows aimed at you and never even seeing a DS resolution.

Additionally, it's important to note that I am a hurler. The reactive benefits are inferior to my standard combat methods. Why would I reactively swing a weapon when I can hurl it and face a lower DS with the same DF and lower RT? This is particularly true in The Scatter, where vs some of the creatures, swinging from the open without first setting up is nearly always a futile exercise. In fact, it's worse than futile, as the critters in there are fast, and you're standing there in roundtime that gained you nothing, waiting for them to do something.

[Buckwheet]

I would probably stick with the small shield as a rogue. I think as a warrior using a shield regularly, (read: I don't just unsling it when not using my two-hander), I think the tower benefits outweigh the small DS benefits of dodge. It isn't the easiest thing to measure though, since we don't see block/parry/evade formula. Additionally, it's important to note that I am a hurler. The reactive benefits are inferior to my standard combat methods. Why would I reactively swing a weapon when I can hurl it and face a lower DS with the same DF and lower RT? This is particularly true in The Scatter, where vs some of the creatures, swinging from the open without first setting up is nearly always a futile exercise. In fact, it's worse than futile, as the critters in there are fast, and you're standing there in roundtime that gained you nothing, waiting for them to do something.

My rogue is also a hurler and I never use the shield itself outside of pure defense. The reactive shield thingy I was talking about is:



Skill Name: Shield Riposte
Mnemonic: riposte
Hostile: No
Stamina Cost: 20
Other Requirements: Training in Shield Bash will increase the success chances of your reactive shield bash.
Available to: Warriors, Rogues.
Prerequisites:
Shield Bash (at rank 2) or CML Shield Bash (at rank 2)
Shield Point Cost:
Rank 1: 4
Rank 2: 8
Rank 3: 12
Description: Attacking around your shield, your enemy thinks he has you right where he wants you. You now have the perfect opening.
Mechanics: This is a Martial Stance. When you are struck by a melee attack while in a forward or greater stance, you have a chance to respond with a free reactive shield bash. This bash deals no damage, but instead knocks your opponent off-balance and into greater roundtime (RT). The chance to react is 50%/75%/100% at Ranks 1/2/3. Larger shields apply a penalty to the reaction chance (-5% per shield size above small), but apply more RT upon a successful bash. Shield Ripostes are limited to one every (6 - Rank) seconds.


So you would be attacking with the shield not the weapon. For me it would really only happened against grizzled griffins or anything in the 550ish attack strength and higher.

[Archigeek]

I may play around with that one, in fact I probably will run it through some testing, but I still wouldn't change shields. Being a martial stance is a bit of a negative for it, as I'm enjoying Griffin's Voice as my martial stance. I can almost continuously run Holler with 3 ranks of Griffin's Voice, for a consistent extra 20 DS.

My main question about that maneuver is "what is free?" No RT? That would be a pretty bug plus. Or does it mean no stamina cost? Which wouldn't matter that much. Shield bash is generally not that effective compared to some other maneuvers, but it's fun when you get a good one. That stance might make it worth picking up spike focus too. I think it's worth testing out.

[Roblar]

I have Ripost running all the time, it is free as in no rt. Being a martial stance also no stamina, except when you first assume the stance or refresh. Unlike normal shield bashes it only incurs reactively incurs rt on whoever hit you when it succeeds, no damage.

Also, regarding Shield Swiftness posted back earlier, you can't use that on larger shields. Medium size is the largest size acceptable. With 3 dodge training, it generated a nice free bump in my DS across the board (about +27 in offensive).

My shield manuevers:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Medium Shield Focus mfocus 5
Shield Bash bash 5
Shield Charge charge 3
Shield Push push 3
Shield Swiftness swiftness 3
Shield Riposte riposte 3
Deflection Training dtraining 3
Deflection Mastery dmastery 5
Spell Block spellblock 2
Shield Mind mind 1
Shield Trample trample 4
Shield Trample Mastery tmastery 1

Available Shield Training Points: 1

[Archigeek]

Swiftness was one of the first ones I tried, to no avail. That's a huge DS bump in offensive. With a smaller shield that would surely be on my list.

Guard mastery is another huge one. With full guard mastery, the person you're guarding gets your full block percentage and you lose none. That is a pretty great benefit. In fact it's so good, that I have to debate whether or not I'm better off attacking to defend the person I'm guarding or to just sit there turtled. It's so effective it's probably abusable. A caster could sit there and fire away all day long while a fully trained wall shield toting warrior blocks nearly every attack coming in.

[Donquix]

Swiftness was one of the first ones I tried, to no avail. That's a huge DS bump in offensive. With a smaller shield that would surely be on my list.

Guard mastery is another huge one. With full guard mastery, the person you're guarding gets your full block percentage and you lose none. That is a pretty great benefit. In fact it's so good, that I have to debate whether or not I'm better off attacking to defend the person I'm guarding or to just sit there turtled. It's so effective it's probably abusable. A caster could sit there and fire away all day long while a fully trained wall shield toting warrior blocks nearly every attack coming in.

Step 1) Find all the dwarf warblades
Step 2) full dwarf warrior group
Step 3) Full phalanx, guard mastery, side-by-side training
Step 4) Doesn't matter, no one can do step 1