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View Full Version : Allies Not in Formation on Kerry's Troops Plan



Parkbandit
08-09-2004, 01:29 PM
Nations have a hard time supporting his proposal to use their soldiers to fill out the force in Iraq.

By Paul Richter and Maria L. La Ganga, Times Staff Writers


WASHINGTON — Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry has staked much of his campaign on a proposal he hopes will convince voters that he can extricate the United States from Iraq more quickly and at less cost than President Bush.

But Kerry's plan, which promises to effectively shift much of the Iraq war burden from America to its allies, so far is failing to receive the international support the proposal must have to succeed.

Kerry in recent appearances and interviews has been intensifying his effort to spotlight what he sees as the Bush administration's mistakes in Iraq — especially the failure to broaden international involvement — as a fundamental difference between the two candidates. But Kerry's proposals depend on changing the minds of foreign leaders who do not want to defy their electorates by sending forces into what many consider to be a U.S.-made mess.

"I understand why John Kerry is making proposals of this kind, but there is a lack of realism in them," Menzies Campbell, a British lawmaker who is a spokesman on defense issues for the Liberal Democratic Party, said in a typical comment.

Many allied countries may welcome a new team in Washington after years of friction with the Bush administration. But foreign leaders are making it clear they don't want to add enough of their own troops to allow U.S. forces to scale back to a minority share in Iraq, as Kerry has proposed.

Allies say they are ready to consider further financial aid and other help for the fragile new Iraqi government. But some officials overseas already are fretting about Kerry's talk of burden-shifting.

"Some Europeans are rather concerned that Mr. Kerry might have expectations for relief [from abroad] that are going to be hard to meet," said one senior European diplomat in a statement echoed in several capitals.

In an interview with The Times last week, Kerry said that by building up international support, it would be a "reasonable goal" to replace most U.S. troops in Iraq with foreign forces within his first term. There are now about 140,000 U.S. troops stationed there, or 88% of a total international force of about 160,000.

In the last several days, Kerry has begun arguing that he could substantially reduce the number of U.S. troops within the first six months of a Kerry administration. In an interview with National Public Radio on Friday, Kerry said: "I believe that within a year from now, we could significantly reduce American forces in Iraq, and that's my plan."

Parkbandit
08-09-2004, 01:33 PM
Man.. sucks to be Kerry.. he finally puts down some details and it's pretty much chalked up to wishful thinking and pipe dreams.

:lol:

Kefka
08-09-2004, 02:18 PM
Hmmm. Must have alot to do with those leaders thinking the war in Iraq is wrong and based on greed. No worries. Kerry will place Bush's Foreign Policy plan in the trash, have a huge bonfire and the world will reunite once again.

Scott
08-09-2004, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Parkbandit
Man.. sucks to be Kerry.. he finally puts down some details and it's pretty much chalked up to wishful thinking and pipe dreams.

:lol:

Time for him to flip sides again.

Parkbandit
08-09-2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Kefka
Hmmm. Must have alot to do with those leaders thinking the war in Iraq is wrong and based on greed. No worries. Kerry will place Bush's Foreign Policy plan in the trash, have a huge bonfire and the world will reunite once again.

Kerry would have already believed this.. and yet he still came up with this foolish 6 month plan once he gets into the White House.

Once again it demonstrates that Kerry simply hasn't a clue and that being President takes more than just saying something.

Latrinsorm
08-09-2004, 02:36 PM
To be fair, though, the only named source of discontent is a guy named "Menzies", which I'm sure is Old English for something like "Dances with Pixies".

Kefka
08-09-2004, 02:37 PM
And what was Bush's plan? It keeps changing

Parkbandit
08-09-2004, 02:38 PM
A plan that doesn't change doesn't work. Adapt and overcome because change is inevitable.

Business 101.

ThisOtherKingdom
08-09-2004, 03:00 PM
Then what's wrong with Kerry changing his plan?

Wezas
08-09-2004, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by ThisOtherKingdom
Then what's wrong with Kerry changing his plan?

Dummy, when Bush changes, it's a change. When Kerry changes, it's a flip-flop. Haven't you listened to O'Reilly lately?

Artha
08-09-2004, 03:16 PM
When Bush changes, it's because somethings not working. When Kerry changes, it's because the polls are down.

Kefka
08-09-2004, 03:29 PM
Ah. Like when the polls showed more and more people against the war, Bush jumps ship to keep the public eye out of Iraq. Mission accomplished.

Parkbandit
08-09-2004, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by ThisOtherKingdom
Then what's wrong with Kerry changing his plan?

Dummy, when Bush changes, it's a change. When Kerry changes, it's a flip-flop. Haven't you listened to O'Reilly lately?

To a point.. I do believe this is true. O'Reilly has never been an unbiased source though.

And I believe we can all agree Bush doesn't do things that are always popular.. as Kerry tries to do.

Ilvane
08-09-2004, 06:52 PM
Got to love it. If Bush changes his plans it's a brilliant strategic decision. If Kerry does, he's a flip flopper..

And you say I am blind!!

Come on boys, tell me exactly what is so great about Bush. No one can seem to give me a straight answer about that.

-A

:punch:

Parkbandit
08-09-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Ilvane
Got to love it. If Bush changes his plans it's a brilliant strategic decision. If Kerry does, he's a flip flopper..

And you say I am blind!!

Come on boys, tell me exactly what is so great about Bush. No one can seem to give me a straight answer about that.

-A

:punch:

You are blind.

Things I like about Bush:

1) I believe him and trust him.
2) He does what he says he is going to do.
3) I know where I stand with him.
4) He brought honor back into the office.
5) I believe that his tax cuts helped our economy after 9-11.
6) I agree with many of his conservative ideals.

I would have said that he's not John Kerry, but I didn't want to steal your only idea for your candidate. Feel free to use that for your list.

08-09-2004, 08:19 PM
You know I have no problems with anybody changing their plans to something more feesible, but the pertainent question is "What is he going to change it to?".

The only feesible solution is to continue to keep US troops in country which kinda blows the wind out of Kerry's sails on his Bush bashing.

08-09-2004, 08:22 PM
oh, and something else I thought of. Kerry has pretty much backed himself into a hole. There is probaly *nothing* he can do at this point (besides losing the election) to come out on top with this Iraq thing. Many, many people see Kerry as the person who will right Bush's "fuck up" and draw the US out of Iraq.

If he pulls out hes dooming the country and only making things worse for terrorism and international sentiment. If he doesn't draw out then he pretty much has sacrificed his integrity on the very first and probaly most important issue of his presidency. Hes fucked if he does, and fucked if he doesn't.

If he can somehow pull this out of his ass I'd actually be impressed.

Ilvane
08-09-2004, 09:40 PM
I'm sure Bush is a nice guy if you talk to him, but he's not known for his intellect.;)

-A

Latrinsorm
08-10-2004, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by Ilvane
Got to love it. If Bush changes his plans it's a brilliant strategic decision. If Kerry does, he's a flip flopper..How did this abruptly become a topic about changing plans? I thought it was a topic about international folks looking at Kerry's plan to have them fight in Iraq and saying "No thx".