Regarding Bans

[Tsa`ah]

Unfortunately there are those that don't care. Even worse is that while some or most GMs may care, the folks at Simu HQ don't.

Just look at all of the people that still play that have been banned. Sure, they don't play the character or account that was banned, they just play on another account that they purchased. Simu, the GMs, and every other customer knows the person has been banned, but it is still income.

Look at all the people that should be banned. People that would have been banned 5 or more years ago.

The days of Simu caring about the customer that paid the bills and salary are long gone. The days of caring about the game atmosphere have long since passed into myth and what we are left with is a few hundred Klaives, Seans, Vifs, and Lisus.

Simu, for a few years now, has only been about squeezing every dollar they can out of the cash cow before it dries up.

If that's not evident by now, I don't know what else to tell you.

[StrayRogue]

The above sentiments make me laugh. People always say it used to be so good, and their never used to be idiots. BULL SHIT. Get over yourself. Its a buisness. Not some evil empire of hate and recrimination. A buisness. Now if you wanted to have a harsh stance on people who were banned never playing, fine. Then on idiots like Klaive, Vif, etc. Fine. But where do you draw the line? And if you did that, how many customers do you think you'd have left?

I'm betting the game would shut down quicker with mass bannings than it would with today's rules. But thats my opinion. Maybe the concept of a company making money, can then continue to make both money and product, is alien to you?

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
The above sentiments make me laugh. People always say it used to be so good, and their never used to be idiots. BULL SHIT. Get over yourself.

Why Stay, that wouldn't be you putting words into my post could it? No.... it couldn't be. But .... if it isn't, then that means you don't have any comprehension skills.

I didn't even allude to anything you said. Let's go over my post again. I'll spell it out for you.


by me ...
Unfortunately there are those that don't care. Even worse is that while some or most GMs may care, the folks at Simu HQ don't.

There are players that do not care about the abuse of bugs. Perhaps you are one of them? Wouldn't surprise me. There are obviously GMs that care about the abuse of bugs. They have contributed a great deal of time developing and implementing game systems that create a sort of balance. A select few abusing a bug to create an unfair gain cheats the rest of the player base, thus an imbalance is created. The folks at HQ evidently do not care about people breaking their policies, nor do they care about the frustrations of the GMs that have to enforce those policies. GM recommends someone for account suspension, HQ says "Whatever, so long as we don't lose money".


again by me ...
Just look at all of the people that still play that have been banned. Sure, they don't play the character or account that was banned, they just play on another account that they purchased. Simu, the GMs, and every other customer knows the person has been banned, but it is still income.

People like Sean, evidently like solescape, Ben perhaps? There are plenty if any one feels the need to compile a list. These people were banned for being disruptive to the game play of others, exploiting bugs (dupping scams) ... It's a long list. They had the potential of causing an economic loss to the coffers. They were banned for a specific reason or reasons, yet they play still. Why? Not because they reformed, but because they bring cash. It is not likely they will stop coming back should they get banned for another reason, they will just buy another account and resume as normal. HQ doesn't care because there is a 50% reduction in potential loss. For you I will explain further ... They could have lost 2 customers, but instead the customer on their way out forked over the account to the customer that was kicked out for no shirt and shoes.

We're getting into the third portion of my post and I have yet to see any reference to the olden days and lack of idiots.

We have you, but we already knew you were an idiot.


me again ...
Look at all the people that should be banned. People that would have been banned 5 or more years ago.

The days of Simu caring about the customer that paid the bills and salary are long gone. The days of caring about the game atmosphere have long since passed into myth and what we are left with is a few hundred Klaives, Seans, Vifs, and Lisus.

5 years ago, perhaps more, the aforementioned would not be tolerated. Players were routinely banned or locked out for acting the way these examples do. Sometimes they never came back, sometimes they reformed, sometimes they pushed it to ban, but there was some semblance of policy enforcement. Now there isn't. There were idiots back then, just as there are today. Back then, I can't believe I'm saying that, there were more people on at peak times and idiots a plenty, but it wasn't uncommon to find one less idiot due to lockout. Now, they get pulled and they get put back in and the idiocy continues.

If you need me to spell out the last part, in case it wasn't clear enough for you, just let me know.


Its a buisness. Not some evil empire of hate and recrimination. A buisness. Now if you wanted to have a harsh stance on people who were banned never playing, fine. Then on idiots like Klaive, Vif, etc. Fine. But where do you draw the line? And if you did that, how many customers do you think you'd have left?

I'm betting the game would shut down quicker with mass bannings than it would with today's rules. But thats my opinion. Maybe the concept of a company making money, can then continue to make both money and product, is alien to you?
[/quote]

Well historically they had more. Even the less obvious MA populous wasn't as big as it is now. Let's say just over 1000 at peak times, 750 of those single account holders, the rest multis. 800 off peak, 150-200 multis.

What is it now on peak, non-event? 700 average, at best?

Sure, account prices have jumped, but they would have to raise those, there are fewer accounts, fewer players.

So now we have fewer players, do we have fewer GMs? (I wonder), yet we don't have fewer idiots, we have more. The problems are more severe, the abuse more blatant. Hmmm.... looks like banning worked and ... it didn't hurt the bottom line.

This is of course just my observation, you are free to make yours, but do so without putting words in my mouth and don't be an idiot when you attempt it. I know that's a chore for you, but at least make the attempt.

[StrayRogue]

I don't read your drivel Tsa'Ha, because the entire first half of my post was dedicated to the most inaccurate of your comments:

"Look at all the people that should be banned. People that would have been banned 5 or more years ago. "

Bullshit. This is where you are making allusions to it being better and so much idiot free. Which it wasn't far, far, far from it. The rest of your post was pretty much moot to me, as you're the atypical prick like Celtar who thinks it was so much better "back in his day", and who bring in baseless, stupid statements such as your one above.

We have more GM's now. We have more than 700 at a peak. Alot more. As for being an idiot, you should read your own one-sided BS some time. Retard. An learn something about trying to talk about something that people know more than you about.

[Tsa`ah]

Excuse me, your dog fuck you in the ear this morning or something?

You are doing nothing but proving that you don't know how to comprehend what is in front of you and will attempt to shove words and meaning into a post that you don't understand.

Did you play 5 years ago? Did you play while it was on AOL/Prodigy/Compuserve/Genie?

You can say bullshit up until the very minute you realize that is exactly what you are spewing, but unless you played then and have something to make a comparison to, then your statements are pretty baseless.

Me an atypical prick? That mean so much to me when it comes from a clusterfuck that creates accounts to back up his own arguments. Say .... why don't you go create another right now and chime in as your room mate or a visiting relative that doesn't play the game but is just soooo fucking interested in what is said on a game forum.

Why was the rest of my post moot to you? Because you can't understand the fucking words being displayed upon your screen.

"An learn something about trying to talk about something that people know more than you about." What the fuck is that? You probably know more about the game at present than I do, you probably know squat about the gaming environment before mom and dad signed you up for the babysitter.

Do me a favor, read a post 5 times, think about your response, read another 5 times, and then try to judge if your response will make any sense or have any credibility, then attempt to post something intelligent. Until then, don't attempt to debate people who don't really care about your existence.

[StrayRogue]

Yeah, I played over five years ago. About a year or two prior to that. The rest of your post, as I do with most of your posts, I didn't bother reading. As for my "second account", doesn't exist, it was a flat mate. You think I give a fuck about some moron on a message board not believing me? I believe Kranar even got his MSN name from him. God knows, it was dealt with in U2U's by them.

Genie/AOL etc, wasn't 5 years ago, chum. Talk more about 7 or 8. Five years ago, the game was pretty much similar to how it is now. It was around 97 and 98 when things started to change alot. Thats when alot of the old legends started leaving en masse. Even then, Ban's weren't just handed down for nothing. I've only ever heard of a few perma bans for people, not just accounts. One involved Whatley, another was some very severe hacking. So, dumbass, I do know what the fuck I'm talking about.

So Celtar, or whichever fucking ICEager you which you were, get over it. As for the rest of your post being moot, when I recognize some person trying to pawn off stupid remarks as a truth, I tend to ignore them. Hell, I tend to consider them an idiot. And after reading your third paragraph in your first post, I just laughed.

[Tsa`ah]

Never played during ICE, nor did I say playing through proprietary services was 5 years ago. Again, putting words in posts you are apparently incapable of understanding.


I do know what the fuck I'm talking about.

You make the claim, but you fail to show it. I must say, it is very typical of you.

[StrayRogue]

What sorry, I can't post scans' of my bills. I think that the only person who plays today that might remember my character is Graysalin. I'll ask him later. And if you're not an ICE ager or whatever, how the fuck do you even begin to think you know what you're talking about? You obviously weren't even here 5 years ago, let alone 10. You seemingly can't even get the dates right. And you're not even close on them.

[Tsa`ah]

Does everything have to to be laid you for you?

Are you really this dense?

What do you not understand about NOT PUTTING WORDS IN MY POSTS? What do you not understand about UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU ARE READING?

Do me a favor and take my advice on posting.

[StrayRogue]

No. But when I talk to someone, I expect that they atleast know what they are talking about. Be it through either experience, which you seemingly lack, or through evidence which they have, which again, you're lacking. I'm not putting words in your post. I'm making simple conclusions from your posts. You don't know what you're talking about in this thread. Point 1. You don't know your dates, facts and figures, in regards to GS. Pont 2. You're not an ice ager, nor were you in game 5 years ago, therefore you cannot judge if it was better or worse, if bans were easier come by or not. Point 3.

[Tsa`ah]

Stay .... you haven't given any justification that you yourself know what you are talking about, let alone what I am talking about.

You jump on my post like I'm talking out of my ass, yet offer nothing to substantiate your claim. You continue to misinterpret what I post and continue to jump on points, fact, and claims that I did not make.

Stop putting fucking words in my posts and start understanding what the fuck is said. I know English is your native language, show that you have some semblance of intelligent thought and read the fucking post before you reply, and reply to what is there, not what you think is there.

[Allycat]

:fence:

[Anebriated]

maybe its just me but Im with Stay on this one...

1. Things have changed recently, yes, but nowhere near as drastically as they did before I started.

2. There have always been idiots playing, there always will be.

3. Stay's posts did make sense. While they may not have been the most thought out post I was still able to comprehend the message he was trying to get across.

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by Elrodin]

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Elrodin
maybe its just me but Im with Stay on this one...

On what he said, or what he said I said?

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[StrayRogue]

I jumped on your post because its bullshit. The same bullshit I've heard countless times from people like Celtar and such. And every single time I've heard that from him, its been totally baseless. Just like your posts. But if you don't believe me, go ask on the officials. Go ask the GM's about their banning policy. You yourself have posted you weren't in the game back then. That there is clear indication you don't know what the fuck you're on about.

Your petty digs about the flat mate, and my grammar is merely trying to cover up the fact your "argument" doesn't have a leg to stand on. But please, ask anyone. Ask them when AOL/Genie shift was. It wasn't five years ago. Nor was it a haven for good RP and less idiots.

Hell, when it shifted to AOL it was terrible. This was way before 1999 though, as anyone with any sense will tell you.

[CrystalTears]

I can't really say for sure if they are punishing/banning less these days. Maybe it's because I had been playing for so long, but the idiots just seemed worse to me because I probably didn't have a tolerance for the stupidity anymore. There's always been idiots, but I think they stand out more to those who become jaded with the game after a while, or who focus on their antics.

That's just my opinion. I don't think anyone can say for certain how much or how little they are enforcing bans. I can say, though, that money is their focus at times (understandable being a business but sometimes it's a bit excessive) and that the player base is not as large as it used to be.

[xShadowMerchantx]

Get a room you two.

[xShadowMerchantx]

Simu has stopped banning. I even know a few folks who have been reinstated that previously were told their business was not wanted by Simu.

[Tsa`ah]

STAY you horse fucked limp dicked slack jawed booger eating MORON.

READ MY MOTHERFUCKING POST AND STOP PUTTING WORDS IN THEM!

Did I once fucking say the shift was 5 years ago? No... you did. I did not even imply that. I never cracked on your grammar, you perceived what you DID NOT UNDERSTAND as baseless, I never said I wasn't in the game "back then", I said I never played ICE, I played pre-unlimited up until oh ... 3 months ago.

I'm going to say this one last fucking time your fucked up tard, STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY POSTS.

If you can't understand what I have posted without inserting your inane prattle into the context of the post or subjecting my logic to your half backed troll thought, then fucking refrain from even attempting to debate the issue.

If you wish to call it BS, call it BS, don't twist and pull what I said until it half-assed supports your dull thought process.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by StrayRogueYou're not an ice ager, nor were you in game 5 years ago, therefore you cannot judge if it was better or worse, if bans were easier come by or not. Point 3.

Bans were MUCH easier to come by. Atleast lockouts were. I had friends that were locked out more than a half dozen times. Typically for cursing in game, or killing another character more than once, even if the other character came back and instigated for round 2.

Granted, they never got banned. I've had a couple of old friends that have been out of the lands for years now, ask me about coming back. One of the first questions from half of them is "Is Simu still so anal about PvP?". They're clearly not anymore. Sometimes that's a good thing, other times I see it as a bad thing.

[Blazing247]

I can't say whether it's because Melissa is more lenient than Fawn, or if it's because of a different cast of SGM's now as opposed to 7 years ago, but things are different when it comes to being banned. I am living proof, as I and a few others have been reinstated from life bans. Furthermore, many of my warnings and the warnings my friends received were for doing things that I see as very commonplace now.

i.e. I got a warning and a 30 day lockout for saying "this is bullshit" about 8 years ago from Draug. Another one of my bans came from killing someone who poached my vruul. Again, this is something that I see happen all the time now. Not saying it's out of control now, but they certainly have loosened the reigns a little bit.

[DeV]

They definitely are alot more lenient now. PvP was pretty rare and if it was happening constantly like what you see in game now, it was dealt with. Lockouts were more common than bannings though. With the change in times, comes a change in how things are dealt with. Simu has its reasons for allowing things to happen that would have been frowned upon in the 90's. Profit is number one on that list I'd assume.

[GSLeloo]

I think certain people should definitely be banned and have it stay that way. In other words, Solescape.

[Weedmage Princess]

I'll have to agree with Blazing, which means I agree with Tsa'ah. There is a LOT more lienency these days than there was before. I think I've mentioned that I've had my mouth washed out with soap for saying the word "whore" at a table. That was back around 97 or so, in Prime. I've seen the words whore, harlot, ass and bitch tossed around since with no repercussion in Prime (up til 2001 atleast.) and even more recently in Plat a time or two. Again, no repercussions.

My reasoning for this though is I believe it all comes down to the GM on duty. There are GMs who are real sticklers for certain things, like language, whereas others really don't care as long as you're not saying shit or dropping f-bombs. This goes not only with sends, warnings and bans, but with other things--alterations, bugs, you name it. That's been a major issue with Simu for a long time now, they're not terribly consistent.

[Trinitis]

Heh, my rogue uses the whore word a lot. But then again, its part of his RP. He is bitter, angery, and loves to cause the same emotions in other chars.

He uses whore, wench, BOY (which pisses of a LOT of guys in game, its great) and a few other choice words.

I say "SON OF A BITCH" all the time yet I cannot say "God damnit," or "pimp," without an automated warning.

[The Eternal Klaive]

Since I'm being consistently mentioned, please allow me to point out that I've been in GS since Fall 95, and Klaive's been in GS since 97.

By my estimate, that's more than 5 years ago and he (Klaive) was most assuredly far and away more abrasive and annoying than he is today.

I've never been locked out in GS. Not once. And I don't plan on being locked out in the future.

Kthx! :)

[Trinitis]

well, Simu is HUGE on the god related things.

They made me change my name like 5 times when I first started GS, because they were all "god releated"

Like Yahweh..

But I snuck Trinitis through :D

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by The Eternal Klaive
Since I'm being consistently mentioned, please allow me to point out that I've been in GS since Fall 95, and Klaive's been in GS since 97.

By my estimate, that's more than 5 years ago and he (Klaive) was most assuredly far and away more abrasive and annoying than he is today.

I've never been locked out in GS. Not once. And I don't plan on being locked out in the future.

Kthx! :)

Oh sure, shatter our hopes and dreams :(

[Parkbandit]

I disagree.. I don't think they are more lenient today than they were.

Perhaps full out bannings, but I bet you that lockouts for a month or two are higher today than they ever have been.

People would kill other characters because they looked at them wrong and not get in trouble. Today, with all the "He's picking on me tools" it forces the GMs to watch more and more characters.

I imagine Falgrin is and was on the perma watch list. "Falgrin stole from me and now he won't give me back my stuff! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Ban him now!"

[Trinitis]

Park, give me my 15 silver back, bitch ::CRIE::

[Hulkein]

I see what Tsa'ah is saying and I agree with him on this part of it.

Today in Gemstone it is almost impossible to get locked out for flat out game disruption. You can be the biggest fucking MORON on the face of the Earth, bring it straight into Gemstone, and do whatever you want without getting locked out. Be it going OOC, dragging people around, slamming when you get caught stealing or are stunned by someone who is protecting themself... In short, you will not be banned for being an asshole who offers no roleplaying to the game or its story lines. To me this was the most important part of what Simu used to do. 12 year olds talking like Tupac drive away a hell of a lot more customers then someone who attacks another for a remark made in character but in their eyes, it's PvP.

That leads me to the next part... they will still lock you out for PvP. Infact that is about the only thing you can get locked out for.

I'm not saying that people who attack others shouldn't ever be locked out, but I sure as hell wish they'd deal with the chronic MA'ers who don't roleplay, the shitheads who slam, the kids who talk "like dis , lets go 2 teh well and rest r minds i m full of EXP dude" and make judgment calls to lockout guys like solescape before they attack 50 people and drive away 10 good roleplayers.

[StrayRogue]

My initial point was that the policies are pretty much exactly the same now as they were five years ago. What pissed me off was the gimp's "facts".

He doesn't know what it was like back then. He wasn't there.
He has no evidence to back up his "facts".

Therefore his "facts" are wrong. He is wrong. I don't give a shit what else he has to say because he has no basis for saying anything in this argument.

Now people who were here 5 years ago, they are free to give opinion, as they have been doing. I've already disputed most of his post, mainly being that the player base is larger than he thought, and that there is more GM's. Whether or not bans (not lockouts) were harder or easier to come by is up on debate here. I believe it wasn't much easier/harder, and that its pretty much the same.

Tsa' has no right to argue however, as he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about simply because he wasn't there and has no evidence or idea about how it was. He can merely speculate, and to a lesser degree than anyone who WAS around back then.

Theres always been idiots in Gemstone. The PC certainly amplifies our awareness of them. Lets face it, without this forum we wouldn't know the name of half the people on our "idiot list". But to say it was so much harsher five years ago...no. I don't agree.

The populace was huge then, and thus much more difficult to manage.

Maybe a few years before that, before AOL, it was a bit better. But not in regards to banning, but player enforced law and order. But hey, what am I to know, I'm unable to prove I was even here five years ago. Except my premium start date, etc. Dick.

[CrystalTears]

He isn't taking about back in the day. That's not even his point, that's yours that you keep on bringing up. He was saying that they are tolerating way more these days than they used to compared to about 5 years ago because lookouts and bans seemed to be done more then than now.

I don't even see where he says that idoits weren't around. There have always been idiots. However I will agree that things are tolerated and shrugged a hell of a lot more now than a few years ago, and yes I WAS around 5 years ago, and in my perspective, more people get away with more these days than then.

We really don't know how many bans were done then in comparison to now. However some can see that actions that couldn't be done a few years ago without a hand slap are forgivable and almost acceptable now.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by LordAdredrin
Park, give me my 15 silver back, bitch ::CRIE::

http://members.cox.net/legendwezas/adredrin2.jpg

[Drew]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
However some can see that actions that couldn't be done a few years ago without a hand slap are forgivable and almost acceptable now.

Amen to that.

[Wezas]

Also, can someone delete the other post in game mechanics. It's a bit distracting.

[HarmNone]

I'll throw my two cents into Tsa`ah's collection bin on this one; however, I think the misperception lies in the use of the word "ban". I don't think they banned more people "back in the day", but I think there were more lock-outs, and more "little talks" than there are today.

That said, I don't play now, and haven't played in about five years. I left because I felt things were getting out of hand then. From what I see here, things have degenerated even further as far as GM control of player behaviors is concerned. Simu staff may not have banned more often then, but they were certainly more active and interested in maintaining some semblance of roleplay and non-disruptive behavior than it appears they are today. :shrug:

HarmNone

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by HarmNone
I'll throw my two cents into Tsa`ah's collection bin on this one; however, I think the misperception lies in the use of the word "ban". I don't think they banned more people "back in the day", but I think there were more lock-outs, and more "little talks" than there are today.

That said, I don't play now, and haven't played in about five years. I left because I felt things were getting out of hand then. From what I see here, things have degenerated even further as far as GM control of player behaviors is concerned. Simu staff may not have banned more often then, but they were certainly more active and interested in maintaining some semblance of roleplay and non-disruptive behavior than it appears they are today. :shrug:

HarmNone

You only see the bad things that happen in the game today.. so you are basing your opinion using a very small portion of the information. Of course you believe it's worse now than it was.. because all you see is the bad.

I've been playing since before AOL went unlimited.. and I really haven't seen a huge difference.

[HarmNone]

Like I said, PB, I don't play now so my opinion is based only on what I see here and in other places, or what I hear about. However, as I also said, I left because things were starting to degenerate even that long ago. I can only assume that the trend has continued, since that seemed to be the way things were heading. A more lenient attitude was being adopted because the player base was getting younger. :)

HarmNone

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by HarmNone]

[CrystalTears]

With what PB and HarmNone said, it makes you wonder if the addition of message boards, chats and PsiNet isn't what's causing it to seem worse than it is.

People tend to post what bothers them that they catch in the game. You don't tend to see people mention the good roleplaying they witness. So it stands to reason that those who read any game-related boards (including the official boards) and speaking in chats about the game will be exposed more to the idiotic antics of the morons in the game than you normally would when you play. I would almost venture to say that people can even get jaded faster after reading such negativity all the time than those who don't read anything in OOC mediums.

In all the time I played, as much as I dealt with idiots and such, I didn't run into the things that I read about here. Maybe it really isn't as bad as we think, we're just exposed to it more now. :shrug:

[Edited on 8/4/2004 by CrystalTears]

[HarmNone]

That might be true, to an extent, CT. However, message boards related to the game existed then, too. As I remember it, you didn't see the veritable plethora of flaming jackassery posted that one sees today. Remember Bel's BBB? :D

HarmNone does...and, is jackassery a word? If it isn't, it should be!

[Shari]

I think agree with CT. I think it existed, but there wasn't as many places (such as BB's) that you could plaster other people with the information of jackasses.

I honestly cannot remember how long ago, or how long I have been playing. I remember my brother introduced me while we were on Prodigy, and you had those shitty purple BB's (or were they blue?) that you could rant on, and I used to RP via the "chatrooms" (LOL) that were on there. So sad.

If anyone remembers this and can give me a timeline, that would be great.

That being said, I don't remember such blatant OOCness as I do now, and it was rare I would see anyone's character kill another. Of course the oldest character I had back then was level 12. (I know, so sad.) But I did hang out in the Landing that entire time and don't recall it being as bad as it was. And since I was younger I didn't really swear very much until I got into HS and didn't try to cause any trouble in game.

Ah how things change.

[Hulkein]

I have to disagree with the killing part Jesae.

I started playing a few months to a year before unlimited (Foggy memory, was young and a long time ago) and from what I remember attacks in the catacombs and outside towns happened with a pretty good regularity.

Then again I was young and was probably hanging out in areas where that type of stuff happened often because that is what was most amusing to me at the time.

A lot of these attacks were actually for a reason and roleplayed out, something that is sorely lacking now.

[Weedmage Princess]

Originally posted by Jesae
and you had those shitty purple BB's (or were they blue?) that you could rant on, and I used to RP via the "chatrooms" (LOL) that were on there. So sad.

If anyone remembers this and can give me a timeline, that would be great.



They were purple and I'm going to say the timeframe was 94-96 (March of 96 is when Gemstone came to Prodigy if I remember correctly. I know that's when I started playing it there.)

I used to RP in those chat rooms too..haha. Does the Paradise Inn or Vampire Lounge ring any bells? Heh.

[CrystalTears]

Yeah killing was done mostly while roleplaying. The scenarios of someone coming along and killing someone because "I heard you talking shit about the character I have on my girlfriend's account and you don't know me and so-and-so told me in IMs and in chat that you said blah blah blah and now you die" wasn't done as often.

[Bobmuhthol]

Or the ever popular, "YOU USE PSINET, LOSER," or, "YOU CHECKED MY FRIEND'S MAGICAL STATUS USING PSINET AND I HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR EIGHT YEARS IT'S BAD I ALSO USE IT."

[Shari]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess

Originally posted by Jesae
and you had those shitty purple BB's (or were they blue?) that you could rant on, and I used to RP via the "chatrooms" (LOL) that were on there. So sad.

If anyone remembers this and can give me a timeline, that would be great.



They were purple and I'm going to say the timeframe was 94-96 (March of 96 is when Gemstone came to Prodigy if I remember correctly. I know that's when I started playing it there.)

I used to RP in those chat rooms too..haha. Does the Paradise Inn or Vampire Lounge ring any bells? Heh.

Fuck I have been playing a long time. And my oldest char ever was 28, that is SO depressing. I don't particularly remember the chat room names, but my chars name was Ceceillia or something like that.

I think back to those days and shake my head in shame, hehe.

[Blazing247]

STOP THIS DEBATE NOW. WHAT WE SAY DOESN'T MATTER, AND IS ALL WRONG ANYHOW. LET US CALL IN THE DEFINITIVE AUTHORITY ON "BACK THEN", CELTAR, AND SEE WHAT HE HAS TO SAY AS HE IS THE FIRST PERSON TO EVER PLAY GEMSTONE, BEFORE IT WAS EVEN CALLED GEMSTONE AND WAS JUST AN IDEA IN WHATLEY'S BRAIN. THAT'S RIGHT, CELTAR RULED THE LAND OF GEMSTONE WHILE IT WAS STILL ONLY AN IDEA IN THE BRAIN OF DAVID.

IF WE HAPPEN TO DISAGREE WITH HIM, WE ARE OF COURSE INFERIOR AND THEREFORE WRONG, PLUS AVAIA WILL COME IN AND TELL US WHY. WELL SHE WON'T REALLY TELL US, SHE'LL BE TOO BUSY KISSING CELTAR'S ASS, BUT SHE'LL IMPLY THAT WE ARE WRONG BY ASSOCIATION. BY THE WAY, I CAN'T GET MY CAPS LOCK UNSTUCK, BUT THIS WHOLE MESSAGE SEEMS MORE IMPORTANT AND LOOKS COOLER IN UPPER CASE LETTERS ANYHOW.

[Edaarin]

Things are much more lax now than they used to be. About half a year after I started playing, I once killed 5 people in the span of a week. I killed Valdrak in the lesser orc area for poaching my kill (past the clearing), and immediately got pulled by Isigrii who told me they'd been watching me for the past week, and then spent two weeks in the consultation lounge.

Now? You have morons like Dwai et al whose sole purpose in the game is to stir shit up and nothing gets done about it. The part I DON'T get is how policy is enforced. Faelenor's player was banned for stupid shit, and he's been trying to get his account back for the better part of 3 years. Why are they trying so hard to keep someone out who doesn't even hold up a candle to some of the idiots that play now?

Sure, Simutronics is a business. However, they have set guidelines and policies that need to be enforced. Otherwise why have them at all? If policy isn't being followed, they're not being a very good company. Businesses have costs to meet, yes, but they also have an obligation to release a product that is satisfactory. Part of that needs to be in enforcement of their rules, in my opinion.

[Artha]

What is it now on peak, non-event? 700 average, at best?

I'd say now was peak and there's nothing going on.

>who

>Active Players: 920


edited because of violations with the Department of Redundancy Department.

[Edited on 8-5-2004 by Artha]

edit II: I agree that bans need to be reinforced, and would also say that ALL policy needs to start being reinforced.

[Edited on 8-5-2004 by Artha]

Hate to say it, but it's not anymore lax now than it was before. It was extremely lax during the AOL days and it is now. In fact, it's pretty much the same.

I remember when I first started playing as my Giantman Warrior during AOL. I never really hunted rats, but kobolds was always a fun place to go. Drama would *ALWAYS* start in kobolds. There would be rampant thieving, killing because of poaching, high level characters going there to get involved in the fights and none of it was RP'd. Absolutely none of it.

It wasn't just there, either. I remember this sort of killing and meyhem was going on in Icemule too. When I went demonic as my warrior, I rolled up a ranger there and was chased all around outside of South Gate for poaching and was murdered. I remember going back out and see the same people up to it again. They kept at it too!

The only time I remember someone getting banned was because they wanted to "get it on" on top of Frith's Inn and not inside the latched rooms, but he had a history longer than my, well, y'know (Ocean's 11).

Hell, I remember when I first hit level 2 and wanted to attack someone so I legged a random Ranger. Nothing happened to me. It was rampant as ever and perhaps more so simply because more people were playing.

- Arkans

[Galleazzo]

Simu has its reasons for allowing things to happen that would have been frowned upon in the 90's. Profit is number one on that list I'd assume.
Sure must be. I been around a long time me own self, and it's like wading through shit sometimes now. Wonder why Simu doesn't give a fuck about all the folks who cancel because they can't take it any more? Now there is profit for ya.

:penis:

[Scott]

Originally posted by Galleazzo

Simu has its reasons for allowing things to happen that would have been frowned upon in the 90's. Profit is number one on that list I'd assume.
Sure must be. I been around a long time me own self, and it's like wading through shit sometimes now. Wonder why Simu doesn't give a fuck about all the folks who cancel because they can't take it any more? Now there is profit for ya.

:penis:

I'd assume the people that quit for that reason is far less then the number of bannings that would be handed out because of unwarrented PVP, swearing, etc.

[Caiylania]

I'd assume the people that quit for that reason is far less then the number of bannings that would be handed out because of unwarrented PVP, swearing, etc.

-------------

Yes, but those cancelling are people who want to RP in an RP game. And letting them leave and allowing perps to stay in the game, keeps NEW players away.

Someone comes in, is greeted and sees people rping are more likely to stick around than staring to play and getting poached from, insulted, and killed in the first few hours.

[HarmNone]

Actually, PvP and general chaos are what a lot of players are looking for these days. ;)

HarmNone thinks so, anyhow

[LordSagan]

OK, let me throw my 2 cents worth into this debate.

First, a clarification:

Banning means you are no longer allowed to log into that account, ever. The account is gone, you will never get it back.

Locked Out means your account is placed on suspension until the amount of time has passed which has been decided by the SGM who approves the lockout.

Perma Banned was rare. It means you are no longer welcome in Simutronics products. Ever. Under any account, even a friends. If you are found (with proof) to be in the game in any form, then the account you are found on will also be Banned.


Now that I've clarrified what the different phrases mean...

It is nearly impossible to be banned these days in game. I would venture a guess and say they do not Perma Ban at all anymore.

Lockouts still happen, but they are much rarer these days. Warnings are even rarer. I would attribute this to the staff being more lienient than they were back in the day. When the GM's were more strict, and more agressive, with the policies then warnings and lockouts were more frequent. I do not know if the leniency of the staff is due to a management decree or due to the staff in general just being a kindler and gentler group of folks.

Back in the day, people like myself...Draug...Pentar...Cyper...a host of others...we were *very* agressive in the policing of the policies. Keeping the policies enforced was a large part of what we did, and we were strict about it. I don't think Simu as a company wants that these days. Even back around the time I was leaving, they were phasing that style of GMing out because they were losing customers over it. Some might argue that the customers we were losing are ones that were bad for the game...but the bottom line was money.

Simu Management changed the way GM's enforced policies, either by attrition of the old staff and hiring new staff who was more lenient...or by directly telling the GM's to lighten up. I don't know which is the case, but it is obvious to those of us who not only played back then, but enforced the policies back then, that something has definetly changed in the game.

Whether I agree with Stray or Ts...I dunno. It's just my take on the whole discussion.

[Weedmage Princess]

:offtopic: When did Icemule open up?

[Trinitis]

All I know is I got nailed for two offical warnings in one act. That don't seem "soft handed" to me :P

[StrayRogue]

It would seem that the idea of GM's and GM policy being more lax is an opinion split by the players. Sagan is the only person really here who'd have any idea of what it was like on the GM side, though I believe he was no longer with the company 5 years ago, which is what I am discussiong. As I initially said, only today do we have comprehensive means of communicating who is doing what. There wasn't a PC then, to my knowledge. Nor PSInet. These are two forums where we can all witness idiots at play without actually seeing or hearing about them in game.

Anyway, my stance is the same, I don't think much has happened in regards to the power of policy enforcement in the last 5 years.

Oh, and atleast I can finish a game recommended for 12's and over. Retard.

[Caramia]

They were banned for a specific reason or reasons, yet they play still. Why? Not because they reformed, but because they bring cash.

How about because it can't be proven they are the locked out person? There are ways to cover it up. IP spoofing, billing address and info belongs to a friend -- I'm sure there are plenty of ways to fool Simu.

They still ban people, for the twit that posted they don't, because Solescape just came here and posted he was banned! About once a month or so, someone posts they were banned for unfair reasons. We read the log, we call the person a loser and say it was justified.

Maybe they lock people out less often now, which some of you whiners should be happy about, since many people complained it was often done for little or no reason. Since they now promote that they make sure there is sufficient evidence, it's ironic you complain they've cut down. It seems the only lockouts and bans that are not being made are the ones done for all the wrong reasons.

:blah:

[Bobmuhthol]

<<IP spoofing,>>

A company that decides whether or not to ban because of IP likes to lose business. You'd basically have to use someone else's account to not get caught. And that's exactly what people do.

[Pulpit]

I just wanted to chime in on this, Now are fokes doing more Idiotic things these days and get away with it perhaps.

I can't say ya or na I was away from the game for many years after it jumped to the web. One thing I can say is when I first signed up and even later when I came back, I really didn't go around trying to cause trouble like some do today .

I do remeber when if you wanted to join Voln you had to take all your things off and wear a robe to get in the pool there
I asked a total stranger there to hold and watch my stuff, Well lets just say he ran off with it ..

Later month or so went by I found him in the Crypt I lit in to him like there was no tomorrow was thru the arch there. blew off his limbs thats when there was break a limb but thats the only time I really went after someone ..

I think what the problem is today is GS4 has been out almost a year now and the death mechanics arn't there for anyone to really care if the die and depart with the up coming changes to the death mechanics.

I think you will see a big change, Your not going to want to get killed & decay more then once within a given amount a time.

So with that I think with just that hopefully that will change the way fokes approach PVP conflits we shall see.

On a side note just thought I would let anyone out there that might not have played in awhile (meaning if you canceled your account ) I just reactivated one of my accounts and they told me there is a promotion right now giving you a free 30 day Basic account .Now I am not sure what that all involves, So if your interested in seeing how things have changed take advantage of the offer and come back for a month and see how you like the changes ..

Pulpit

[Blazing247]

Stray, dork, dweeb, whatever your fake online friends call you, you really don't take well to people disagreeing with you huh?

Just about every time you speak you make an ass out of yourself, yet you seem to think you're pretty cool about it. It's ok to disagree without making fun of another person because of what God did to you when you were born. Oops, I guess I can't even follow my own advice.

[StrayRogue]

No, because whenever I get into an argument, I generally know about what the fuck I'm talking about. Hence why I bother. He didn't, so I called him on it.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
No, because whenever I get into an argument, I generally know about what the fuck I'm talking about. Hence why I bother. He didn't, so I called him on it.

What did you call me on Stay? Your opinion?

You didn't prove you knew what you were talking about, nor did you prove that I did not.

You only proved that you read what you want to read, comprehend what you agree on, and fill posts not belonging to you with your own editorial while not actually covering any points of the post you're arguing against.

I noticed you didn't jump all over Sagan's post, could that be because you couldn't refute it by calling it BS?

I'm not going to say that post proved my case, but I will say it gave my post a bit more substance than you will probably feel comfortable with.

[Edited on 8-6-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Caramia

They were banned for a specific reason or reasons, yet they play still. Why? Not because they reformed, but because they bring cash.

How about because it can't be proven they are the locked out person? There are ways to cover it up. IP spoofing, billing address and info belongs to a friend -- I'm sure there are plenty of ways to fool Simu.

You have got to be kidding me.

IP spoofing, let's redefine that as connecting via proxy, unless Simu and the entire up stream to the person connecting is still using technology from the days when 2x86 was uber fast.

To do that one would need to find a host, most of the time this costs, willing and able to route the packets from pc, to host, to Simu, and back again. I would say this is extremely uncommon for a locked out/banned person to do.

Billing information and account belonging to a friend ... again we go back to IP and common sense. Unless the friend and the person by-passing a lock-out/ban have the same ISP and live in the same area (very probable especially with AOL) you would think the people looking at IPs would be able to tell .... X person logged on at such and such a time with this IP, consistent with the account activity, then we have an IP that comes from a different service, different area, and the character behavior is pretty similar to the behavior leading up to player Y's banning .... well then it gets pretty damned simple.

Are there plenty of ways to fool Simu? Sure, but how fucking stupid does Simu have to be in order to be outsmarted by Super Sean or half of the other idiots that continue to come back?


Maybe they lock people out less often now, which some of you whiners should be happy about, since many people complained it was often done for little or no reason. Since they now promote that they make sure there is sufficient evidence, it's ironic you complain they've cut down. It seems the only lockouts and bans that are not being made are the ones done for all the wrong reasons.

For the people that whine about lockouts, warnings, and bannings, sure. I for one have never thought these things were done for no reason or too harshly. I've never been locked out myself, I don't push the rules and boundaries of policy.

My point is that enforcement is too lax and it seems to me that Simu, not the necessarily the GMs, have given up. Maybe it would be better to say, Simu has sold out. It just became more transparent these last few years.

I personally think there is one hope for GS, and that is for Simu to crash and burn financially forcing Whatley to sell it off the products to the first one to come through the door with enough cash to buy him a shiny low mileage NSX.

Hopefully that person will be of the same mind that some sort of policy has to be enforced.

[Edited on 8-6-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[LordSagan]

Actually, there are more ways than you can count on how to fool Simu. They're not that difficult to figure out, nor are they even things that some people do conciously.

Simu needs to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that this is the same person in order to ban their account.

If the billing information is different, you can't prove it.

If the IP address is different, you can't prove it (Keep in mind, if you connect through a major IP and do not have a static IP address, then the IP address is different. Connect through AOL, you always have a free pass. It's not that difficult.)

Player makes *no* mention in game that they are the same person. If the player admits it, they're caught...if they never admit it, then they are pretty much free to do what they please. They *must* admit this in game for it to be proof.

There's three examples of ways someone can get "caught" playing while banned. It's pretty damn hard to catch someone without a shadow of a doubt unless they admit it in game. I use to be in the position to have to prove these things, and trust me...it is not easy.

You cannot blindly say "Simu are morons for not knowing that's the same person". Knowing is one thing. Proving it is another thing entirely.

How would you feel if everyone in the game claimed you were Klaive (sorry Klaive, you're name is easy to use here)...and he was banned for something. Then Simu came along and said "Hey, everyone says you're Klaive so we're banning you too.". You'd be pretty pissed off that you were banned because there was no proof, wouldn't you? Yep, thought you would...so that is why it is so difficult to prove.

Sorry for the rambling...I'm not entirely awake yet.

[LordSagan]

Oh, and a side note...

I quit just about 5 years ago so I was heading out the door just about the time you're talking about, Stray.

[StrayRogue]

Thanks, I thought that was around the time Sagan. As for not "jumping on Sagan", I knew he was around in the time period to actually have an opinion. You, Tsa' were not. And I dislike it when some idiot who wasn't there tries to say how things were.

[Tsa`ah]

Stay, honestly, you don't know a damned thing.

Sagan, Simu is perhaps the only game on the net that feels it "needs" to prove someone is circumventing a ban or lock-out, other games leave it to a customer to prove they are not, or are not allowing a person to use their account. Perhaps that is the difference.

How would I feel if everyone claimed I was a certain banned player in the game? I would feel pretty idiotic for behaving like an ass clown worthy of the association for one and wonder what the hell I had been doing wrong to piss so many people off in a game for one. Second I would be more than miffed to receiving a ban that someone else earned. On the other hand, if my account became suspect for some reason and I received a lockout I would be more than willing to fork over copies of phone bills and credit card transactions or whatever else it took to prove that I was not associated with said person.

It would be easy enough for me, I don't share my password and I call/visit friends routinely. For someone that shares their account, it would be a good lesson to not share their account now wouldn't it.

[StrayRogue]

I know more about GS five years ago than you do. Thats my point. Thats why I jumped on your bullshit statement about it being "different". You have no basis for saying that it was because not only do you lack any evidence to back up your claim, you weren't even in game to have an opinion at that time.

[Tsa`ah]

Stay, start a new thread.

Title it "I know more about GS than Tsa`ah does" ... Prove that you do and see how much I care about you knowing more about a game than I do.

Take it there or debate the issue or debate the issue at hand here, not both.

From here on out, in this thread, you stick to the issue. I'm not going to put on the mod hat to enforce that, I'm going to ask Harm and Weeds to do that.

So let me make it clear again. Debate the issue at hand and I will do the same, persist with the garbage and it's going to get moved ... again ... to it's own thread.

So if you want to prove your superior GS knowledge, be my guest .. in a different thread.

[StrayRogue]

No. You made a statement with no evidence to support it. Its simple as that. Sagan is probably the only one here with any real authority to talk about the bans in GS, and he was no longer a GM in the time frame we're talking about.

[peam]

Having been on the recieving end of a 30 day lockout in 1998, 2000, and 2003, I will say that each one was progressively harder to attain.

[Drew2]

WAY TO BREAK A THREAD, PEAM.

Yay I fixed it.

[Edited on 8-6-2004 by Tayre]

[CrystalTears]

Stray, could you point out where Tsa'ah said that he wasn't playing 5 years ago? All he said was he wasn't playing in the ICE age. I haven't seen where he said that he wasn't playing 5 years ago, so if I missed it you'll have to show me where he said it.

Regardless, I feel that the standards of punishment have been decreasing, I would say even in the past 3 years only because I knew of people who would get their hand slapped then for things I've seen people do now and no one says boo to them. One thing is loosening the chains from what they were once, but sometimes I feel that they let the chains go altogether just to keep the clientele and not lose anymore.

[Edited on 8/6/2004 by CrystalTears]

[StrayRogue]

"Never played during ICE, nor did I say playing through proprietary services was 5 years ago. Again, putting words in posts you are apparently incapable of understanding."

[StrayRogue]

PS, start doing your job and stop thread hijacking? K? I know you like posts regardless, but have SOME control.

[CrystalTears]

He said he never played during the ICE age and that playing through AOL/Genie/Prodigy didn't occur 5 years ago. That doesn't say anything about not playing 5 years ago.

Do my job? I'm not allowed to post my opinion now? WTF is your problem?

[Edited on 8/6/2004 by CrystalTears]

[StrayRogue]

Doing your job has nothing to do with posting your inane opinion. I don't care when or where you do that. However, when threads get hijacked I expect mods to do something to stop it, especially when its occuring in three folders.

[CrystalTears]

Report the hijackings please if it's that much of a problem rather than attacking me for posting my opinion, especially because it doesn't agree with yours.

[StrayRogue]

I did. But I don't think I should have too with the amount of mods around here. Again though, it does go hand in hand with your "more posts = good" philosophy.

[CrystalTears]

Nothing was reported so we can't check what isn't reported.

You sure love putting words into people's mouths.

[StrayRogue]

I sent a U2U to Harmnone, because no one else was doing anything. Ask her, if you please. And the only reason you're pissed off is because I wouldn't rat on my friend in the Joke thread.

[Scott]

So how about those bans?

[CrystalTears]

I'm pissed now? :lol: I asked, you didn't want to answer, fine, I don't care.

Whatever, Stray. Continue making assumptions about what people said, you're really good at that.

REPORT the posts from now. Sending one U2U to one person won't really solve anything.

[StrayRogue]

I don't see why I should have to waste any more of my time when you have people do the job of MODERATING the threads.

[Weedmage Princess]

Damn, talking about being uneccessarily harsh.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by peam
Having been on the recieving end of a 30 day lockout in 1998, 2000, and 2003, I will say that each one was progressively harder to attain.

Haha. How about Culg, he ever get one after I left?

Oh no, son.

[peam]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by peam
Having been on the recieving end of a 30 day lockout in 1998, 2000, and 2003, I will say that each one was progressively harder to attain.

Haha. How about Culg, he ever get one after I left?

Oh no, son.

Nah, I closed that account down not too long afterwards. I've been debating opening it back up though. They don't want none, son.

[HarmNone]

Stray, the U2U I received from you was asking me to stop a word war between you and Blazing247. I did post asking the two of you to stop. However, it would have been much easier, in my opinion, if you had just stopped responding.

I must say, I fail to understand why it is MY responsibility to make YOU behave responsibly. I posted, as you asked, but the matter COULD have been handled without moderator intervention. In my opinion, it should have been.

HarmNone, cleaning out the sandbox

[StrayRogue]

I'll respond to anyone who posts. Its not my job to manage threads or inter-thread wars. I had no problem letting it go on aslong as it did, I took the time to ASK you to sort something out in a hope that it wouldn't start annoying more folks. As I said in the U2U, I could easily have been more aggressive and take it even farther. Next time, from your response, I most definately will do UNTIL you people do something.

[Weedmage Princess]

Last I checked our "job" was upholding TOS. :shrug:

[HarmNone]

As you wish, Stray. The point I was trying to make was that these boards are a community of adults (for the most part). Adults are expected to post with a sense of responsibility. It should not be up to the moderators to see that the adults who post here behave responsibly. That SHOULD be up to the adult in question.

That said, if two (or more) people here decide to abdicate their responsibility for their actions, that is their choice. I won't interfere unless it becomes "over the top". Personally, I don't feel like babysitting perfectly capable adults. :grr:

HarmNone ain't gonna go there

[StrayRogue]

I'll remind you of that next time you intervene in a flame then.

[HarmNone]

You may remind me of whatever you wish, Stray. I will consider what you have to say if, and when, I find it relevant. In the meantime, I still expect adults to post responsibly.

HarmNone says: Whatevah.........

[StrayRogue]

I'll bear that in mind next time I post then.

[HarmNone]

Thanks! I really do appreciate it. :)

HarmNone

Way to be a lil kid stray. Really, you've outdone yourself

[StrayRogue]

Wow, way to be a fucking moron. Congrats.

[HarmNone]

Heeey! Stray has said he will remember to post responsibly. What else can one ask, eh? Let it go, please.

HarmNone, trying to be fair to everyone

[StrayRogue]

And you seriously wonder why I think these forums are going to hell? Theres a time when I actually appreciate the mature nature of the officials.

[HarmNone]

Heh. There are times, Stray, when I agree with you. The forums have their ups and downs, just like almost anything. Yet, they have continued for quite a long time now, and will continue to do so, is my bet.

I may not like everything said here. I may not agree with everyone who posts here, but I realize that not everyone thinks as I do; nor, should they. I try to keep that in mind and allow people the leeway to be themselves within the framework of TOS. That's what all of the moderators try to do.

Because this is a community, with a diverse group of posters, there are going to be disagreements. As adults, we should be able to disagree without resorting to demeaning one another. It doesn't always work that way, though. To keep the boards civil and enjoyable, we must all work together...posters and moderators alike. When we do, these boards are awesome!

HarmNone

Wow, way to be a fucking moron. Congrats.


Wow thanks man. I still have a long way to go before I read your status.

Its amazing on how you bitch about other peoples maturity and this and that, yet you act like a spoiled bitch.

Asking other people to make YOU not post like a fucktard? and then saying other people lack maturity? Give me a fucking break.

Newsflash: No one gives a fuck about what you think of these boards. Didn't you say you were done posting here anyway? Good thing you stick to your promises.

Grow the fuck up and stop being a little bitch.

[Blazing247]

:penis:

[Tsa`ah]

I think the topic, split from the bug thread, has been buried in enough crap now.

I'm going back on my word and putting on the mod cap.

This thread has run far enough off track so I'm sticking the proverbial fork in it.

Better luck next time.


:talktohand: