Warning: Character Purchasers

[Kitsun]

Just tossing out a warning for people that buy characters; you need to check references and be careful what characters you buy.

Warnings are bound to the CHARACTER. Just because you transfer it off, does not mean you get a brand new slate.

There are people (like Inspire/Kizun/Leodan/SylvanCode) that use the PC as a dumping grounds for characters after he's been caught scripting. He keeps dodging the banhammer because he sells them to someone else an buys a clean replacement with your money. Meaning if somewhere down the line, you make a mistake and get busted, you can get all of your accounts banned because you did not know someone else stacked warnings.

There has also been a streak of scams where the buyer flat out loses a few hundred bucks when the seller simply vanishes.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

1. Meet the character ingame. Or at the very least, make them login and change the PROFILE QUOTE to a line of your choosing. MAKE SURE IT EXISTS AND HAS THE RIGHT RACE, PROF and LEVEL.

2. Ask for references, friends. Ask your friends if you know who this guy is.

3. Check out the properties of any items of worth the person claims is on the character.

Only YOU really give a fuck about your money.

[Androidpk]

+1

[Ardwen]

I'd also suggest in some cases finding a trustworthy middleman/person/thing

[waywardgs]

Inspire hasn't killed himself yet? I thought for sure by now...

[Kitsun]

I'm realizing I left a lot of recommendations off the initial post. Will fix soon.

[Kitsun]

Some general guidelines that I use.

I'll categorize them into "Red Flags" or items that should set your spidey sense tingling because it is a tactic used by scammers. It is only a flag because there could be a possible legitimate explanation. However, enough red flags in one deal means the guy you're dealing with is probably trying to scam you. If someone sets off a dozen red flags and you still feel you can trust the guy, then you're likely a sucker. You need to step back, recognize your lot in life and probably unsub to the internet. You aren't meant for this world and that Nigerian prince isn't going to get back to you anytime soon.

The second category of problematic issues when buying something is "Show Stopper". This means collect all the logs, posts, PMs, emails with screenshots and post them up because this guy just tried to dupe you in the butthole.

Red Flags:
*Will not provide character name
*Can not provide consistent character information (as a rule, I ask for ALL info shots on a character - info, skill, skill full, convert, artisan skills, age, justice history, friend list, etc. Make sure it all matches.)
*Has no references or friends(IG or on the boards)
*Has little or no history of previous transactions on the PC or else where
*Will not log character into the game to meet up
*Inconsistent item data

Show Stopper:
*Refuses to use Paypal - while paypal is not the be all and end all of payment options; it is widely used and reliable. People that scam typically have no access to PP because they burned that bridge and it is a pain to reopen another one. It does not afford you MANY options when dealing with a scammer, it does give you some recourse.
*Will use Paypal but only wants payment as a GIFT. You can not get gifts back. Suck it up and take the fee on your end or tell him to suck it up and he should have added it into the pricing.

Hints to make transactions go more smoothly:
*If you want to do the swap, communicate with each other in REAL TIME. Use AIM, Skype, Lich, telephone, whatever. Lots of deals get a false positive on a scam situation simply with poor communication. If you're going to insist on transacting through PMs AND you're going to be going on a trip to bumfucknowhere for the next 4 weeks, do NOT accept payment until you can deliver. Or do, but don't bitch that your rep got trashed because you decided to have a fucking holiday in the middle of a business deal.
*Use a middle man that is well known and trusted by both parties.

[Ardwen]

Good list here

[BriarFox]

Agreed.

[diethx]

If someone sets off a dozen red flags and you still feel you can trust the guy, then you're likely a sucker. You need to step back, recognize your lot in life and probably unsub to the internet. You aren't meant for this world and that Nigerian prince isn't going to get back to you anytime soon.

I've missed you.

[Methais]

I'd also recommend finding out their address so you can burn down their house irl.

[thefarmer]

Search for the paypal address they give you to send payment before you pay them. It takes a minute or two tops.

Not only here but in a wider Google/Bing/etc search. Chances are if they've scammed someone, anyone, with that email there's a post about it.


edit: The rock climber guy with brain damage came up on some wow forum with the paypal email he used to scam that person here just recently. The wow forum didn't say he was a scammer, but it shows plenty of people use the same paypal email for more than one game/reason.

[Buckwheet]

Ask on the forum to the general populace if you want global feedback on buyers or sellers.

[BUBBAcHEWY]

Thank you guys for the tips. Im looking to buy and sell very shortly here and I appreciate the info. I dont know how people could do that to others, but I understand it happens.

Stay safe and happy buying and selling!

[Nahkaev]

*Will use Paypal but only wants payment as a GIFT. You can not get gifts back. Suck it up and take the fee on your end or tell him to suck it up and he should have added it into the pricing.

as someone currently selling a character, and accepting paypal as a payment method- but only accepting gifts, I now feel compelled to explain why. "Virtual Goods" are not things paypal protects sellers for, *at all* and can be reversed on a whim by the buyer, without a requirement of any sort of proof, with absolutely no recourse for the seller.

Given that my paypal connects directly to my bank account- even if I draw out the funds- if at any time in the future a buyer decides to "screw me," (which has happened to me before in other online sales) paypal will draw cash right out of my checking account and give it to them. It's pretty messed up.

Granted I am not selling some big fancy expensive character or anything, it still seems odd that you would call that sort of transaction a "show stopper," when really in my opinion it should not be.


Here's what a reversal looks like to a seller; (in this case, I had sold some in game currency to someone in a game called Lineage 2)

eBay Payment Received (Unique Transaction ID #1EJ67371GU723561M)

This transaction has been reversed.
For further details please see transaction 4UM77175JG5492342
Original Transaction
Date Type Status Details Gross Fee Net
Sep 20, 2004 Payment From Joel Bourque ReversedPayPal reversed this payment because of a dispute or payment review. The money has been returned to the sender's PayPal account.PayPal reversed this payment because of a dispute or payment review. The money has been returned to the sender's PayPal account. ... $252.00 USD -$7.61 USD $244.39 USD

Related Transactions
Date Type Status Details Gross Fee Net
Sep 20, 2004 The funds that were placed on temporary hold have been reversed Removed Details -$252.00 USD $7.61 USD -$244.39 USD
Sep 23, 2004 Reversal Completed Details -$252.00 USD $7.61 USD -$244.39 USD
Total: $0.00 USD $0.00 USD $0.00 USD

Total amount:
$252.00 USD
Fee amount:
-$7.61 USD
Net amount:
$244.39 USD
Date:
Sep 20, 2004
Time:
12:06:56 PDT
Status:
Reversed


There's no way to dispute it at all.

[Kitsun]

Mostly this was written from the perspective of a a) buyer dealing with b) someone they do not know and c) potentially having scam flags.

I've sent and accepted gifts from people I trust. But that is something that has to be worked out. Someone on one end or the other has to have enough reputation to be the trusted party. Or use a damn middle man.

If I am buying from someone that is new to the boards, has not dealt with any transactions of note, no one to back their honesty, then also them stomping their feet and demanding payment in gift form is a show stopper for me.

[BriarFox]

Yeah, asking for a payment to be sent as a gift is something that, as a seller, you work your way up to.

[thefarmer]

There are people (like Inspire/Kizun/Leodan/SylvanCode) that use the PC as a dumping grounds for characters after he's been caught scripting. He keeps dodging the banhammer because he sells them to someone else an buys a clean replacement with your money. Meaning if somewhere down the line, you make a mistake and get busted, you can get all of your accounts banned because you did not know someone else stacked warnings.


http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?78560-Level-78-Elf-Wizard&p=1509359#post1509359

[FaenorDragonfly]

Explain to me how a middle man protects either party. If I use Goat as a middle man and then reverse payment, or the seller doesn't deliver, what does the middle man do? Eat the loss? Fork over his own character? I just don't understand how a middleman would be any different. I am probably missing something.

[Kitsun]

Step 1. Middle man gets account info, verifies character is legit, and meets agreed state.
Step 2. Middle man gets payment via Paypal via Gift.

At this point, middle man is holding both character and payment. Both sides have pants down.

3. Middle man delivers account info and cash payment to the recipients.

Can't revoke payment since it was a gift. If really paranoid, the middle man could change PW, blank billing and security question on the account.

Middleman needs to be trusted because both sides give up their "safety" of being the second one to bring the goods to the table.

[Ardwen]

Or in the case of items middle man gets item, seller awaits payment, its verified, new owner gets said item, I've done this a few times for fidgety folks

[FaenorDragonfly]

Okay, but what if I reverse payment after I get the character? Is the middleman going to have to be willing to eat the loss?

[Gelston]

You can't reverse a gift.

[Androidpk]

Buck said that if the payment is done with a credit card then you can still reverse a gift.

[Gelston]

Buck said that if the payment is done with a credit card then you can still reverse a gift.

You aren't reversing the gift. You are reversing payment to paypal.

[Androidpk]

Same thing in a round about way. Just pointing out that not even gift is 100% secure.

[Nahkaev]

Same thing in a round about way. Just pointing out that not even gift is 100% secure.

it is not the same thing, because paypal will not draw down your bank account without telling you, like they do for a normal payment if some a-hole reverses it.

[Latrinsorm]

The rock climber guy with brain damage came up on some wow forum with the paypal email he used to scam that person here just recently.What a weird epitaph that guy ended up with.

[Buckwheet]

it is not the same thing, because paypal will not draw down your bank account without telling you, like they do for a normal payment if some a-hole reverses it.

True, but not the full story. They will set your account to be negative the amount they disputed. You can then not use your account until the negative amount has been satisfied.

Look, there is no 100% in these transactions. I can decide to scam anyone at anytime, even if that chance is one in 100 million. If you are that one in 100 million that it happens to then you are still screwed. There is a reason that people like myself tell people we are only going to pay say 70% for an account sell out. Its because if we get scammed we need a way to make up the difference. In the billions of silvers of sales I have done I certainly do not have thousands and thousands of dollars or billions of coins/items just laying around. Sometimes we get scammed, sometimes we get 100% markups.

The biggest thing that has hurt the GS cash transactions was gsauctions going away. Sergey bought coins at $6.5 million guaranteed and sold them for $10 or whatever it was for small amounts because he was assuming 100% of the risk. Everyone knows that if you are going to ask someone to assume all the risk and be your pawnshop, that the goal is for them to cover their liability and get compensated for their time.

There are several people I trust without question, but that is not to say that they will never scam but those of us who have no overall intention to become the next Tsin or Ciston are the best hope for cash transactions until Simu implements something on their own.

[Tgo01]

In the billions of dollars of sales I have done

Damn, GS has more economic activity than most countries.

[Buckwheet]

Hah I stealth edited! Although I am probably approaching 100k in sales over my lifetime, Ciston was profiting that much or something during his heyday. I have maybe 200m in trinkets that could be called profits.

[Ardwen]

Ciston was doing well over 100k a year in his heyday, I am into the billions in profit at this point, over tens of billions of deals. Most of the time the margin is minimal. Buying items can be risky for many reasons, values can crash as easily as they skyrocket. Have had my share of bad deals of course, thankfully none to people still playing, and whenever possible I try to warn folks of shady deals, and/or offer advice to those that ask

[Candor]

Really dumb question here, but why are warnings tied to the character? That doesn't make much sense. Warnings should be tied to an account. Warnings in a characters record should specially list the account the character was tied to at the time.

Is this SIMUs way of saying that they don't like characters being bought and sold?

[Ardwen]

I always though they were tied to both, which in many ways is how it should be, if your mage lieks to meteor town, both the mage and the player should geta tagged, then if your ranger starts furying town the ranger and player should get tagged, leaving 1 mage 1 ranger and 2 player warnings

[Vorpodu]

And yes, Simu doesn't like the buying and selling of characters.

[Gelston]

Really dumb question here, but why are warnings tied to the character? That doesn't make much sense. Warnings should be tied to an account. Warnings in a characters record should specially list the account the character was tied to at the time.

Is this SIMUs way of saying that they don't like characters being bought and sold?

It is tied to both. I doubt the reasoning is due to Simu hating character sales, but rather to prevent someone from accumulating warnings and then creating a new account and transferring all their characters to it to have a clean slate.

[AnticorRifling]

Per the requests I've stickificated this thread.

[AestheticDeath]

When/why did gsauctions stop their business? Not enough sales etc?

[SonoftheNorth]

their prices were too high and no one bought anything.

[Tisket]

When/why did gsauctions stop their business? Not enough sales etc?

The ultimate pessimist returns. Welcome back.

[SHAFT]

The ultimate pessimist returns. Welcome back.

Pot, meet kettle

[Tisket]

I don't think that word means what you think it means...

[SHAFT]

I don't think that word means what you think it means...

Sensitive sensitive. Give the guy a break.

[Tisket]

Sensitive sensitive. Give the guy a break.

lol, AD has a defender! Hide your razor blades.

[SHAFT]

Ad never did a thing to me. I do know he was once a GS player and if the guy is returning to play its good for all of us who do play. Returning players are great for GS.

Sorry, can't say I agree with talking shit to people on the pc when they return just to do it.

Talking shit to you is ok because it's apparent you'll never leave. And you take it so well.

[Tisket]

I promise that if you leave I won't talk shit about you either. Until you return that is.

[Gelston]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m26xa8FeGw1r8f18ho1_400.gif

[Latrinsorm]

I mean, I can understand people (BOURGEOIS people) disliking Tisket, because it would be a funny old world if we were all the same, but I do not understand calling her a pessimist of all things. I stand by my assessment of her as unfailingly kind and sweet hearted, or whatever I said before, and I stand copper-sheathed.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I'd also recommend finding out their address so you can burn down their house irl.

That's how I roll.

[Tisket]

I mean, I can understand people (BOURGEOIS people) disliking Tisket, because it would be a funny old world if we were all the same, but I do not understand calling her a pessimist of all things. I stand by my assessment of her as unfailingly kind and sweet hearted, or whatever I said before, and I stand copper-sheathed.

Liar! Take that back!

[Latrinsorm]

Part 1: I could make an incredible dual reference to Reboot and a rep Tisket once sent me but Tisket was at least 80 years old when Reboot came out. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

[subzero]

My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

He said he got tired of you wanting him to watch you all the time.

[DivePirate]

Just did a very smooth character purchase with Coldrider for a 56 empath. Thank you very much!

[jon1833]

Do not buy from this Symbiotic. Apparently he sold me an account he did not own, and did not have authorization from the owner to access or sell it. It appears he may have gotten the blodscrip and the silvers he is selling, from that account. I have asked for a refund multiple times, with no response. I'm working with Chris from Simu to try to get the situation resolved, but they are limited on what they can do, besides getting the account back to the original owner(which has been done), and attempt to recollect the items that were dispersed. Symbiotic is a scammer.