New sorcerer stat placement

[Vossin'87]

So I decided to roll up a sorcerer, and I was wondering how my stats looked. I doubt he ever makes it past 50 really, but tell me what you think. He's a dwarf btw. I didn't worry about influence because I didn't think it would affect to much for him and like I said I doubt I get past train 50.



Level 0 Stats for T, Dwarf Sorcerer

Strength (STR): 79
Constitution (CON): 69
Dexterity (DEX): 87
Agility (AGI): 90
Discipline (DIS): 49
Aura (AUR): 59
Logic (LOG): 69
Intuition (INT): 79
Wisdom (WIS): 59
Influence (INF): 20

Also, any pointers on anything you can think of is greatly appreciated!

[Kastrel]

Your stats are a little weird. Its like you wanted to come really close to setting for growth, but cut back.

The BIGGEST thing is that your Intuition is way too high. As it stands, it is your second stat to hit 100, yet it is arguable the second or third LEAST useful stats for a Sorcerer. Since you don't seem to care about stats being at 100, take that down 20 points and distribute them elsewhere.

3 more points in Strength will buy you TWO more strength bonus; thats a huge benefit for the investment. Likewise, 4 points in Constitution will buy you 2 more Con bonus; that is also huge. It factors into a lot of things, including maximum health. Thats 7 points right there taken from Intuition that will buy you such a huge gain in carrying capacity and the like. Put 9 more of the remaining 13 in Discipline, and you can get that up to 100 as well, and Discipline is a fairly important stat for Illusions and experience and mental TPs. That will still leave 4 points to distribute at your leisure; you could put them back in Intuition if you cared to, or use them to bump up some magical stats like Aura or Wisdom.

Another question: do you plan to swing a weapon? Because I am curious why your Dexterity is so blatantly high. It will hit 100 at level 65, and unless you are aiming for fast claid swinging or something, there is little reason for it, since bolting isn't viable until high levels. Also worth pointing out, sorcerers make for the worse melee class in the game.

So yeah, take home message:
-20 to Intuition
+3 to Strength
+4 to Con
+9 to Discipline
Consider dropping Dexterity a little

Tell us a bit more about your skill build and intented hunting style as well.

[Vossin'87]

I did have the stats placed for growth somewhat, but right now he's 8 trains and swinging a claidh right now until I can get him a few more trains which you are right that's why I did bump up dex/agi. I'm planning on making him a runestaff holder later, but right now with hardly any mana it's alot easier just letting him swing away. When I switch to the runestaff, how far would you suggest dropping dex/agi? I appreciate the advice Kastrel

[Darcthundar]

A little different point of view.

Kastrel is right about intuition and dex. I would argue strength is not a top priority. First, you are a dwarf and get +10? str bonus as it is and second, encumbrance will never be an issue as long as you remember that phase (704) is your friend. But that is just my opinion.

Also, why runestaff? I prefer the shield/brawling route with the pures I have. Nor have I ever regreted this route. To me being disarmed and prone is not an option I want to be in. I know it cost more but to me the advantages outweigh the cons. With the relative low cost of sorc offensive spells (702 and 705), CoL and dwarven spirit regen rate, you can have plenty of mana to easily fry with only 1x in harness power.

I have tried to tailor my reponse to the advantages dwarves have and my advise may not apply to other races. I may caution you to not set a goal of only 50 trains for your sorc. You may find out this is a highly versatile profession and want to go further.

But this is only my two cents.

[Vossin'87]

A little different point of view.

Kastrel is right about intuition and dex. I would argue strength is not a top priority. First, you are a dwarf and get +10? str bonus as it is and second, encumbrance will never be an issue as long as you remember that phase (704) is your friend. But that is just my opinion.

Also, why runestaff? I prefer the shield/brawling route with the pures I have. Nor have I ever regreted this route. To me being disarmed and prone is not an option I want to be in. I know it cost more but to me the advantages outweigh the cons. With the relative low cost of sorc offensive spells (702 and 705), CoL and dwarven spirit regen rate, you can have plenty of mana to easily fry with only 1x in harness power.

I have tried to tailor my reponse to the advantages dwarves have and my advise may not apply to other races. I may caution you to not set a goal of only 50 trains for your sorc. You may find out this is a highly versatile profession and want to go further.

But this is only my two cents.

To be honest I hadn't given brawl/shield any thought really until you mentioned it. This is my first sorcerer build, so I'm open to suggestions! I'll definitely be adjusting his stats from what you two have said. Is it a big advantage going with the brawl/shield setup?

[msconstrew]

To be honest I hadn't given brawl/shield any thought really until you mentioned it. This is my first sorcerer build, so I'm open to suggestions! I'll definitely be adjusting his stats from what you two have said. Is it a big advantage going with the brawl/shield setup?

Unless you're buying a 50+ sorcerer, brawl shield is incredibly expensive during levels when you'll want/need your CS to be higher. I've got a brawl/shield build on my level 67 sorcerer and I think it works very well (10x shield, though) and will continue on through cap (LOL). But I would never recommend a younger sorcerer even attempt it because it's so expensive and you'll sacrifice CS through the TPs you spend.

[Darcthundar]

Unless you're buying a 50+ sorcerer, brawl shield is incredibly expensive during levels when you'll want/need your CS to be higher. I've got a brawl/shield build on my level 67 sorcerer and I think it works very well (10x shield, though) and will continue on through cap (LOL). But I would never recommend a younger sorcerer even attempt it because it's so expensive and you'll sacrifice CS through the TPs you spend.

Sacrificing CS is not necessarily true. I was using the limited information provided and making several assumptions. First, that he was going to continue with his claid sorc training for the first 30 days. After 30 days he would re-spec. My assumption was that he was going to be around level 20. I am using GSIV Stat Maximizer and Lost Rangers Utilities for my numbers.

I used the following numbers:

Level 0 level 20 level 100

CON 73 79 100
DEX 78 83 100
DIS 58 68 100
LOG 62 72 100
INT 66 79 95
STR 82 86 100
AGI 88 91 100
INF 46 55 80
WIS 58 68 100
AUR 49 65 100

44/43 tps 46/46 tps

Shield Use 1X 13/0
Brawling 1x 10/2
PT 1x 8/0
Harness P 1x 0/4
Spells 3x 0/32

Total 31/38

That still leaves 15/9 points at level 20 to train in additional skills. Sure he will be bare bones, but his CS will not suffer. It should be pointed out with 15/9 available points you can train 1x in Arcane Symbols (0/2) MIU (0/2) EMC or SMC (0/3) Swim (3/0) Climb (4/0) and Perception (0/3) for a total of 7/10.

Once again I will point out that I am assuming he is level 20 and Master of CoL after his 30 day trial period is over. Sure, it costs more and he will lose training in other areas. But he should not lose any CS.

These are just some quick numbers I have thrown together and they probably should be tweaked. I am just saying Brawling/Shield is a viable option after the 30 day trial period. I definately would not recommend this route for a level 1 Sorc.

[Jeril]

Your TP costs are wrong, you didn't include the cost for 1x and 2x spells, which is an additional 0/8 and 0/16 per level. Also, unless you are worried about getting dispelled it is better to train spirit spells for DS instead of brawling. The cost for 101 ranks of brawling is about the same as 20 ranks of triple spells and if they were placed as MnS they'd net you the same amount of DS.

[Vossin'87]

It is duable I bet, but you are right about the CS being a little weaker. Do most sorcerers 3x in spells?

[subzero]

You don't need to 3x spells. I have sorcerers at cap, ~83, 42, and ~35 and if I've ever tripled spells while leveling, it was on one or two of the lower level ones that I made purely for bot purposes.

[Jeril]

You may not need 3x spells but the difference in CS between 202 and 303 spells is a good chunk, around 50. So, depending on how you hunt that can make things quite a bit easier to be 3x in spells over 2x, to say otherwise is just being stubborn and foolish. Generally, the question is how much utility you want from training in other things over hunting power and obviously the answer is different from person to person.

[subzero]

I tend to do closer to 2.5x spells so that I can have those utility skills.

8 armor
1x PF
1x perception
1x AS
1x MIU
1x HP
2x SA
1x EmC
1x SmC
2.3-2.5x spells
1x summon lore
1.25x sorcerer lore (1x demon, .25x necro)

Then, of course, climb/swim as needed (50 climb, 60 swim at cap) and I believe I had 5 ranks of MoC by 50. I don't have to dispel, curse, or saturate things to hunt and I suppose many would consider half-krolvin less than optimal. Of course you start running into CS issues at cap with some of the crap that's over 100. That's not much of an issue since the vast majority of those critters can be avoided and your first post-cap goal should be to finish 3x spells (or 1x CM. I'd probably advocate 1x CM before finishing spells, actually).

To sum it up, I've never felt like my CS was crippling me or slowing me down by failing to hit or do enough damage on lower endrolls. You're not going to be using 717 very well or hunting post-cap critters, but that's about it. I found that 1x CM was far more effective at keeping me alive and raking in the exp than 3x spells.

[Vossin'87]

Well so far i'm hoping to have him to 12 trains tomorrow, so if I keep at this pace I should be past 20 before my time is up and i'll be forced to decide on my training path. I'm leaning towards the brawl/shield build because well... it's really entertaining seeing my dwarf carrying around 'a tower shield' considering he's a little over four feet. But also, I know it will be a more challenging build at first as some have pointed out but I do like being able to channel open handed and having the tower shield since I won't have any dodge. At least if i'm remembering correctly, the 'tower shield' does help with that, doesn't it?

[Haldrik]

Hmmm.

I've got a dwarf sorcerer too. I was just toying with my stats for level 100 growth and noticed that I can't get 100 in all but 1 stat. I've never had this problem before. Am I doing something wrong? All my over dwarfs (bard, rogue, wizard) but hit 100s in everything but INF.

82 100
73 100
78 100
88 100
58 100
49 100
62 100
52 87
58 100
60 88