Not Panicking Yet....

[FaenorDragonfly]

Paypalled someone 500.00 on Sunday for a character and still no word, all they needed to do was give me account info since it was a takeover. Emailed them, pm'd them, nothing yet. Not panicking yet but starting to get a little worried....

[SHAFT]

Was this the warrior with the adamantine shield?

[FaenorDragonfly]

No, a female ranger.

[SHAFT]

Good luck to ya. May they burn in hell if you don't get your character.

[Tgo01]

500 dollars for a female ranger? This must be some uberly post capped ranger, right?

[FaenorDragonfly]

Post capped with some nice items. Worth $500.

[FaenorDragonfly]

Well, I just found out that the guy who sold me the ranger also scammed someone else for a character. So please beware of TheRogue and Reltov420, and don't send any paypal money to reltov420@hotmail.com or Ken Yeager. I, in the meantime, am out $500. So awesome.

[Tgo01]

That sucks. Reltov420 used to post here quite a bit didn't he?

What was the name of the character he was selling?

[FaenorDragonfly]

Turns out he is Mxenna of the recent wizard scam too, at least he uses the same paypal email address.

[thefarmer]

Turns out he is Mxenna of the recent wizard scam too, at least he uses the same paypal email address.

Reltov was the dude with the rock climber with the brain surgery, wasn't he?

[Tgo01]

Reltov was the dude with the rock climber with the brain surgery, wasn't he?

Pretty sure he is.

[Androidpk]

Yeah. Last time he posted he said his cancer became terminal and he had under a month to live because he was stopping the chemo treatments. Don't think he is alive anymore.

[thefarmer]

http://www.mylife.com/reltov420

[Allereli]

Yeah. Last time he posted he said his cancer became terminal and he had under a month to live because he was stopping the chemo treatments. Don't think he is alive anymore.

I think that was all bullshit after seeing all these scams

[Gizmo]

Yeah. Last time he posted he said his cancer became terminal and he had under a month to live because he was stopping the chemo treatments. Don't think he is alive anymore.

Everything on the internet is truth.

[Candor]

Everything on the internet is truth.

Right. They couldn't put something on the Internet if it wasn't true. I even saw a woman say this in a commercial.

[FaenorDragonfly]

I have been reading his posts, and more than a few talk about his shifty merchanting. I so should have read them all before I sent him money, but I went by his good rep and familiarity with him in general. This has been an expensive lesson, but I have learned more than one thing from this. There was an impressive picture of his head with a boatload of stitches though, so I just don't know. Maybe he died and someone is using his email? Maybe he lost 83% of his brain and he now scams in his sleep and has no recollection? Maybe he is reading all of this on a new pc handle and laughing hilariously whilst wiping his ass with my 500 bucks?

[Velfi]

That's a bummer, man. Hopefully it's just bad timing on their part and it eventually works out!

[Tgo01]

Reltov420 hasn't been on the forums since 05-20-2012.

TheRogue created his account on 01-27-2013 and this (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?78414-That-sinking-feeling&highlight=) is the only thread he has posted in.

How did this sale come about? Do you talk to this person outside of the forums I take it?

[FaenorDragonfly]

He contacted me through pm with TheRogue, we talked back and forth a bit, he answered some questions, I said I was interested. I was wary because of the nature of his handle, but he gave me reltov420@yahoo.com as his email address. I knew of reltov420, I saw that he had not been on in a while, but I myself have changed pc names when I left and returned, so I was not super worried. His paypal was verified, so I told him I would take her, he said he would send me her info when he recieved the payment. I sent the paypal, and that is the last I heard from him.

[Androidpk]

You can always dispute the charge with Paypal right? For that amount of money I would have definitely have made sure he had references.

[FaenorDragonfly]

Does anyone know who his characters were?

[TheEschaton]

I do remember the pic with the massive stitches on the side of his head, and they were of the same guy who posted the rock climbing pics, so unless he's stalking a rock climber with serious head injuries, the story might be legit.

Maybe he's gone all Breaking Bad, since he's terminal he's just like, fuck it, I need the money to take care of my pregnant wife and my kid with Downs. Sounds like a fan fic you should write. Except you're not a fan, you're a victim of his. A vic fic? That sounds way too slasher-y. A scam fic? That's just a John Grisham novel. A nemesis fic? I like it.

[Drew]

I believe you can reverse the charges or if he's claimed the money you can dispute it?

http://www.ehow.com/how_5839729_reverse-paypal-payments.html

https://www.paypal.com/c2/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/CaseManagement/customerservice/EducationBuyerOverview-outside

[Kuyuk]

Haha, I used to own Reltov for a while in gemstone, along with his wiz Gemleshil or something... long time ago, he cried and cried and I made him buy him back or resold him or something...I DONT KNOW BUT I MADE $1100 ON IT!

[Stabbyrogue]

Just going to chime in here. Gemleshil and Reltov are two different people. Gemleshil's a stand up guy, and I've exchanged thousands of dollars worth of items with him. Reltov, notsomuch, but I should have his IM in my buddy list. I have to leave for work now, but I'll check it out once I get home.

[ashronsjunky]

I wish you luck in getting either the character or your money back. You can dispue it through paypal. its a lengthy process that can take up to a month to complete. Only issue is going to be how you sent the money. Did you gift it? ebay items? goods ect... That's gonna make a huge difference. Did you put in the notes anything saying GSiv Character or money for character so and so? Because they do very little for "virtual items". Their policies are more geared to physical items such as through ebay, payments for utilities, credit cards ect and bank transfers. Ive had to dispute payments sent to people for not getting characters and I was told by a rep to dont send the money as a "Gift". That selection there is the hardest to dispute. Second virtual items such as in game weapons armor character items ect is not something you can illegitimately sell due to the virtual item actually being owned by the company owning the game ect.. (you need their permission or whatever to sell game type items) Hense back in the day when people sold characters they would put as a "disclaimer" all characters items and such is sole property of Simutronics bla bla bla. Good luck!

[Allereli]

I had brain surgery last week, too

http://lh4.ggpht.com/-J5vY4givqsw/Sf27P1hXtoI/AAAAAAAAAiE/lPfPWWNt0wA/s720/50%20Stitches.JPG

see, not so hard to fake

[Suppressed Poet]

Maybe the policy should change that you don't PayPal the money until the character transfer occurs or you have the logins to the account.

If someone steals a character without paying, at least the community has some recourse that they can make that near unplayable by kicking his ass when they login.

[Buckwheet]

I have toyed with the idea of trying to do third party trades. The idea being that the buyer sends me the cash, and I don't release the cash until they confirm the receipt of the character. The problem with it is that if they do a charge back on their CC it could come out of my pocket.

It just sucks all around.

[Parkbandit]

Before I buy a character from someone I didn't know.. I would do a little investigating about his past dealings. Had that been done in this case, there would have been a number of red flags that popped up.

[Allereli]

Maybe the policy should change that you don't PayPal the money until the character transfer occurs or you have the logins to the account.

as a personal policy I don't send money unless I know the person is absolutely reputable, or if they give the item/character/silvers first. Paypal is not changing their virtual item policy anytime soon.

[everan]

What if the standard were to do character transfers using silvers? It's one step removed from cash. I realize that someone could still take someones elses silvers and then not deliver the character, but I'm not sure you can ever fully insulate from a con artist. I was on the other side of a proposed transfer recently and my thought process was that it would be better if I received silvers because the buyer can't cancel the transaction after I transfer my character.

[Gilralyn]

That model would work well with a trusted middle man.

[Lolleia]

Before I buy a character from someone I didn't know.. I would do a little investigating about his past dealings. Had that been done in this case, there would have been a number of red flags that popped up.

This. Unless it's someone I've dealt with personally or that person is well known, I always do a little research.

I've never had any dealings with Reltov but I have had a recent large cash transaction with FaenorDragonfly. During our character sale there was an issue on simu's end that held up the transfer for a few days and she was super patient and understanding about it. She doesn't seem like the type that would jump the gun and QQ over nothing as sometimes happens in these situations. I really hope it works out for you hon :(

[Wrathbringer]

:( Sorry to hear about this. Hopefully all turns out well. If it doesn't, try to consider the quality of life a person must be experiencing to feel the need to attempt to do this kind of thing to someone else in a small community with which he/she has much in common and pity them.

[Allereli]

If it doesn't, try to consider the quality of life a person must be experiencing to feel the need to attempt to do this kind of thing to someone else in a small community with which he/she has much in common and pity them.

That was not Bringing the Wrath

[Buckwheet]

What if the standard were to do character transfers using silvers? It's one step removed from cash. I realize that someone could still take someones elses silvers and then not deliver the character, but I'm not sure you can ever fully insulate from a con artist. I was on the other side of a proposed transfer recently and my thought process was that it would be better if I received silvers because the buyer can't cancel the transaction after I transfer my character.

This would work okay as long as there is someone always around with massive amounts of silvers for sale. If I wanted to buy Tsin for example I would need 137.5m silvers first and if I all I had was cash that could be hard to source.

[crb]

Paypal really tries to get you to pay with your checking account, don't. Always use a credit card through paypal for any questionable transactions. Paypal is ultimately in the business to protect Paypal. Your credit card company doesn't give a fuck about Paypal, by law if you say it was a fraudulent charge they can't charge you more than $50 for it, and most charge $0. Paypal knows this of course, which is why they try to encourage you at every stop not to use your CC. And if you do use a CC and file a paypal dispute you'll also find them far more helpful since they know they're only a phone call to your bank away from being forced to issue the refund in full.

Credit card really is the safest way to pay online - for buyers. For sellers it isn't because just as there are lying sellers there are lying buyers who'll buy something then lie about not receiving it.

[crb]

I have toyed with the idea of trying to do third party trades. The idea being that the buyer sends me the cash, and I don't release the cash until they confirm the receipt of the character. The problem with it is that if they do a charge back on their CC it could come out of my pocket.

It just sucks all around.

Escrow.com

[Buckwheet]

Escrow.com

That would add a cost of $40 to $70 for my Tsin transfer which is not terrible, but I could not find a clear policy on virtual items.

edit found it and it doesn't look good for what we are trying to do.



Escrow.com only accepts credit card and PayPal payments for Premier Service transactions. Please note that Premier Service transactions are limited to $5000 USD. In addition, Escrow.com has strict policies governing the acceptance of credit card and PayPal payments. PayPal payments are currently only available when both the Buyer and the Seller are located in the United States. Below are some common reasons a credit card or PayPal payment may not be accepted for your transaction:

The transaction involves the purchase of a vehicle.
The transaction does not involve shipping to the credit card or PayPal confirmed address.
Information provided to Escrow.com is determined to be incorrect, or, in certain situations, when we cannot reach you at the phone number you provided.
Our transaction security team detects certain fraud indicators for a transaction.
Escrow.com also limits credit card use when it involves certain merchandise. This merchandise includes, but is not limited to, the following:
Time sensitive goods (i.e. tickets), software, services, website content, watches, jewelry, cellular phones, currency, gift certificates, clothing, art, designer products, wedding dresses, signed items, vehicles, live animals, transactions where we cannot determine what merchandise is being sold, and items where we cannot confirm delivery.
Escrow.com may refuse to allow a credit card or PayPal as payment for any reason in our sole discretion. Any rejection of credit card or PayPal as a form of payment is not necessarily determined by information provided by the cardholder. We apologize if we are unable to accept a credit card or PayPal payment for your transaction.

[Jarvan]

Sad, but there is no real good way to deal with "virtual items" yet. You can fully document everything being done, including webcam chats with the buyer and screen capture of the transfer. They can still dispute the charge and get their money back, because Paypal, CC's and pretty much everything does not recognize virtual items as real items. Even with proof.

I actually had a virtual item sale in another game where I had a webcam chat with the buyer. And screen captured the transfer. I got a message from paypal that the 500$'s was being refunded because of "possible fraudulent charges". The guy called paypal and told them that he didn't buy this, someone used his account, it wasn't him.

I called paypal, and told them I had a video of the guy, where he showed his DL (the picture was clearly him) agreeing to the purchase. They said ok, send it over. I did. He then said I never gave the item. I sent them the Screen capture clearly showing I gave it, and that he accepted it. 2 Days later I get a call from paypal telling me that due to the fact that it was a virtual item, they can't stop the charge back since Paypal has no way to prove I really did give it.

The ONLY way I can see around all this is to actually sell something completely different. Like an artistic rendering of (in this case) of Tsin. Along with the artistic rendering will be instructions on how you too can own a char like Tsin. Then you mail them the rendering, with delivery confirmation and signature required. Make it absolutely clear they are BUYING the rendering, and getting the virtual char as a bonus. This way you have a real life paper trail, and delivery.

Legally, I am sure it's murky as hell, but it got to be better then just straight up getting screwed.



As for the OP. Track the guy down and clip off his balls.

[Helsfeld]

I've talked to Goyt in game about the rolaren claidhmore... he said ken died... these leaves me to believe he has access to his e-mail because he had access to his accounts. He is either alive or dead and fucking everyone in the ass. OR there is someone else playing identity thief.

As for charcters first and information first? NOT so much especially with people you don't know which is 80 percent of the game...

you could always just buy shit from me or buck people who are trusted and won't rip you off its a pretty simple solution

[Suppressed Poet]

Working in merchant services, I know a bit about this subject.

Digital goods ARE in fact covered under the card brand's umbrella.

If you don't get a resolution from Paypal, the next step is to call your card issuing bank.

The bank is responsible for enforcing the rules of Chargebacks. If it is a good bank, they should help you.

The burden of proof lies on the seller. Digital goods are just like services...they can be charged back if you pay for and don't recieve your product\service.

[Suppressed Poet]

The problem is a lot of banks don't effect the rules properly. If I was in this situation, I wouldn't take no for an answer.

[Luftstreitkräfte]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm willing to put up $25 to contribute to a group pool to hire some kind of private investigator to look into this. We need to call the cyber police, this person done goofed and is compromising the integrity of our market and players. Let's wreck em. We need to stalk the hell out of this scammer.

[Jhynnifer]

Paypal really tries to get you to pay with your checking account, don't. Always use a credit card through paypal for any questionable transactions. Paypal is ultimately in the business to protect Paypal. Your credit card company doesn't give a fuck about Paypal, by law if you say it was a fraudulent charge they can't charge you more than $50 for it, and most charge $0. Paypal knows this of course, which is why they try to encourage you at every stop not to use your CC. And if you do use a CC and file a paypal dispute you'll also find them far more helpful since they know they're only a phone call to your bank away from being forced to issue the refund in full.

Credit card really is the safest way to pay online - for buyers. For sellers it isn't because just as there are lying sellers there are lying buyers who'll buy something then lie about not receiving it.

This is really, REALLY good advice. I honestly had absolutely -no- idea this was an option. Thank you!

[Suppressed Poet]

Somebody commented on rep about the merchant (seller) not actualy owning the goods. It's a grey area, but shouldn't matter.

I wouldn't get into specifics when calling your bank. You agreed to purchase something and it was not recieved. You have tried contacting the seller and they have been unresponsive. Let the bank do the work. The seller isn't going to respond anyways and has no recourse.

[FaenorDragonfly]

Paypal really tries to get you to pay with your checking account, don't. Always use a credit card through paypal for any questionable transactions. Paypal is ultimately in the business to protect Paypal. Your credit card company doesn't give a fuck about Paypal, by law if you say it was a fraudulent charge they can't charge you more than $50 for it, and most charge $0. Paypal knows this of course, which is why they try to encourage you at every stop not to use your CC. And if you do use a CC and file a paypal dispute you'll also find them far more helpful since they know they're only a phone call to your bank away from being forced to issue the refund in full.

Credit card really is the safest way to pay online - for buyers. For sellers it isn't because just as there are lying sellers there are lying buyers who'll buy something then lie about not receiving it.

I paid with money that was already in my PayPal account from a previous character sale I had made. It didn't go through my credit card.

[Buckwheet]

Also, if you get the Paypal Mastercard, its not owned by Paypal its owned by GE Capital, no matter how you try and send money it always sets the default payment to the credit card.

[Candor]

Someday there will be standard protections against virtual theft, and the crime will be treated by the law just like the theft of a real item. We're probably a couple decades away from that, however.

[Drakefang]

Someday there will be standard protections against virtual theft, and the crime will be treated by the law just like the theft of a real item. We're probably a couple decades away from that, however.

Once the gov't starts taxing the transactions, they'll probably start protecting them.

[everan]

Somebody commented on rep about the merchant (seller) not actually owning the goods. It's a grey area, but shouldn't matter.
I agree that it shouldn't matter, because we don't really sell the 'item,' we sell the right to use the item. We don't own any item or character at all, we merely pay for the right to use a computer program that simulates the items. When I sell a character, I'm really just selling my rights to sign into a network and pretend to be a particular character.

[Dain]

Yeah if you were involved with Reltov, then you have my sympathy.

That guy has been part of few shady transactions.

These were ones I found:
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?62423-MR-913-enhancive-pin
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?57816-Max-lightened-FGB

And here is another discussing his shady practices:
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?61594-Greater-black-ora-flamberge

In one or both of those threads he gives his email, which is the one you sent money to.

I wouldn't trust this guy with anything.

[crb]

I paid with money that was already in my PayPal account from a previous character sale I had made. It didn't go through my credit card.

Yup, transfer that to your bank account first to zero out your paypal balance, then make the payment with a credit card. Safest way for a buyer.

[everan]

Profile info:
Last Activity 05-20-2012 03:56 PM

That's odd as well. Does he have another profile he's using?

[Tgo01]

Profile info:
Last Activity 05-20-2012 03:56 PM

That's odd as well. Does he have another profile he's using?

I think she said Therogue is claiming to be Reltov420.

[msconstrew]

Here is "TheRogue's" current info for login:

Join Date 01-26-2013
Last Activity 02-11-2013 07:48 AM

[Candor]

Paypal really tries to get you to pay with your checking account, don't. Always use a credit card through paypal for any questionable transactions. Paypal is ultimately in the business to protect Paypal. Your credit card company doesn't give a fuck about Paypal, by law if you say it was a fraudulent charge they can't charge you more than $50 for it, and most charge $0. Paypal knows this of course, which is why they try to encourage you at every stop not to use your CC. And if you do use a CC and file a paypal dispute you'll also find them far more helpful since they know they're only a phone call to your bank away from being forced to issue the refund in full.

Credit card really is the safest way to pay online - for buyers. For sellers it isn't because just as there are lying sellers there are lying buyers who'll buy something then lie about not receiving it.

I have significantly reduced the number of checks I write. I used to write a check for pretty much everything. Now except for close friends and family, I try to never write a check for a payment if at all possible. My ATM card is of course also a debit card, but I *never* use it as a debit card. Credit cards are the way to go.

[FaenorDragonfly]

I am getting a lawyer, I have an appt tomorrow to speak with a consumer fraud attorney. If I have to pay $2000 to make sure he doesn't get to keep my $500, I happily will.

[WRoss]

Maybe the policy should change that you don't PayPal the money until the character transfer occurs or you have the logins to the account.

If someone steals a character without paying, at least the community has some recourse that they can make that near unplayable by kicking his ass when they login.

Inspire has been playing as Leodon and no one seems to give a shit. Given enough time, that character would be forgotten about or join an MA crew where interaction didn't matter. In short, people have short attention spans for scammers like these. Zimzum comes around occasionally, Meureii is playing again, then there's Inspire, and apparently Reltov.

[Jhynnifer]

Inspire has been playing as Leodon and no one seems to give a shit. Given enough time, that character would be forgotten about or join an MA crew where interaction didn't matter. In short, people have short attention spans for scammers like these. Zimzum comes around occasionally, Meureii is playing again, then there's Inspire, and apparently Reltov.


Inspire has actually begged someone not to out Leodon apparently. Enough of us remember and he makes a big enough ass out of himself that no one takes him seriously in-game.

[WRoss]

Inspire has actually begged someone not to out Leodon apparently. Enough of us remember and he makes a big enough ass out of himself that no one takes him seriously in-game.

Hopefully he's been banned from LNet for posting personal information, again.

[Androidpk]

He isn't banned from Lnet.

[thefarmer]

Inspire has actually begged someone not to out Leodon apparently. Enough of us remember and he makes a big enough ass out of himself that no one takes him seriously in-game.

Geard is him too.

[Jhynnifer]

Geard is him too.


I thought that was IW?

[thefarmer]

I thought that was IW?

Nah. IW will always tell you who he is.

Also, I bet 20 Dave&Buster tokens this (http://forum.gsplayers.com/member.php?7823-Manamethis) guy is Inspire too.

[Jhynnifer]

Nah. IW will always tell you who he is.

Also, I bet 20 Dave&Buster tokens this (http://forum.gsplayers.com/member.php?7823-Manamethis) guy is Inspire too.

That is so weird, I swear during EG IW came out and said he was Geard. WELP, another name to put on ignore. Thank you sir.

[Luftstreitkräfte]

Nah. IW will always tell you who he is.

Also, I bet 20 Dave&Buster tokens this (http://forum.gsplayers.com/member.php?7823-Manamethis) guy is Inspire too.

I was IW here on PC. I play Zentalin (rolled 1999), Andreaus (my first char - 1995) (they are 100 Khanshael Cleric and 72 Khanshael Empath), Dero (15 Dhe'nar Ranger), Qaatil, Taajir and Mujtahid (all Tehir - 82 Wiz, 44 Bard and 51 Empath) (the latter 4 chars rolled up in the past 2 years)

I have owned Deron who I bought from Crazymage and sold to JustDan, Madmountan who I bought from Hels and sold back to Khariz, and Sindawe who I bought from Ruty and sold to Drauz. I have no purchased characters currently, all of my guys are raised from level 0 by me. I am not Geard, though I was talking to him a lot at EG and I suspect he's probably Inspire, although he never had any of those angry tirades that Inspire always has with Leodon. I suspected he also could be Jukes. To my knowledge, Inspire plays Leodon, Merindow, and I used to see him using Doppelganger as well. There are other alts of his I just forget.

[AnticorRifling]

IPs don't match anything with the Reltov420 posting handle. IPs do match that other scam that was mentioned earlier; Mxenna I believe.

[Lolleia]

Anticor's wiener dogs to the rescue!

[DrZaius]

My guess is someone picked up the "Reltov420@yahoo.com" email address (maybe the original Reltov was on aol or something) and has been using that name to trade off the other guy's rep. That, or someone has hacked his email and figured out there's a lucrative business scamming a set of 300 people who pay hundreds of dollars for text? Either way, sorry you got scammed- that sucks.

-DrZ

[msconstrew]

I am getting a lawyer, I have an appt tomorrow to speak with a consumer fraud attorney. If I have to pay $2000 to make sure he doesn't get to keep my $500, I happily will.

This sounds like throwing good money after bad. Yes, $500 is a lot of money and it's an expensive lesson to learn, but you're not going to get any kind of satisfaction out of this. Further, it's unlikely consumer protection statues will protect you because they're usually not directed towards this kind of behavior on the part of an individual (if you can even identify the guy's real name and address).

[everan]

Spend the money on a private detective and prove that you can track him down. Everyone seems to think they're so anonymous. With a few dollars you'd be amazed on what you can do.

[waywardgs]

Spend the money on a private detective and prove that you can track him down. Everyone seems to think they're so anonymous. With a few dollars you'd be amazed on what you can do.

Then what?

[Lolleia]

Poop on his lawn!

[DCSL]

Oh please. We all know that the next logical step is to burn his house down.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I am getting a lawyer, I have an appt tomorrow to speak with a consumer fraud attorney. If I have to pay $2000 to make sure he doesn't get to keep my $500, I happily will.

Did you get my PM? Was any of that accurate? I didn't get a response...

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

According to my brief stint playing Digital Detective, someone who got a hold of Reltov420 email, would also have gotten a hold of the AIM name, the mylife account, some stupid blog, and a couple of other completely unrelated to Gemstone things. ALL with the same name and location behind it...it doesn't seem plausible that everything would get hacked all at once and the Scammer would assume the complete identity of said person. People generally just aren't that smart.

An Internet never forgets.

[WRoss]

Spend the money on a private detective and prove that you can track him down. Everyone seems to think they're so anonymous. With a few dollars you'd be amazed on what you can do.

I was able to track him down last night in about 5 minutes. No need for a PI. Though, it's none of my business and we have only heard one side of the story, so I'll keep that info for myself.

[waywardgs]

An Internet never forgets.

Internet's attention span, however, is painfully short.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I was able to track him down last night in about 5 minutes. No need for a PI. Though, it's none of my business and we have only heard one side of the story, so I'll keep that info for myself.

Which is why I haven't posted said person's Phone, Address, and place of employment on here.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Internet's attention span, however, is painfully short.

Yes, but there is always a record of something somewhere. Anonymity on the internet requires constant work.

[msconstrew]

Which is why I haven't posted said person's Phone, Address, and place of employment on here.

Given the fact that Anticor said that the IP doesn't match the "original" Reltov but, instead, matches Mxenna, how can you be sure you've got the right person?

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Thats just it. I can't be 100%. All I am saying is that there are a whole lot of different things that match up that would be really weird for a scammer who got one email and PC account. I suppose he/she could've used the email to access everything else, doing password resets and what not. And on the off chance that I am wrong, I am not trying to screw someone's reputation over so I patiently await the findings of someone better at this than me and then we can all burn their house down together.

[everan]

Given the fact that Anticor said that the IP doesn't match the "original" Reltov but, instead, matches Mxenna, how can you be sure you've got the right person?They can always repeat the same process with the other set of information. That was kind of my point, track the person down and let them know you know who they are IRL. Then what? That depends on their appetite for justice. Sometimes a virtual bully or thief only flourishes because they think they are 'unknowable.' Once you remove the veil it occasionally changes their perspective. On the other hand, we may find out this is some 12 year old who thinks they're untouchable. It seems to me there was some kid buying stuff on ebay back in the day and then not paying for it.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

They can always repeat the same process with the other set of information. That was kind of my point, track the person down and let them know you know who they are IRL. Then what? That depends on their appetite for justice. Sometimes a virtual bully or thief only flourishes because they think they are 'unknowable.' Once you remove the veil it occasionally changes their perspective. On the other hand, we may find out this is some 12 year old who thinks they're untouchable. It seems to me there was some kid buying stuff on ebay back in the day and then not paying for it.

From what I can determine, HE just turned 28 and lives with his parents.

[Tisket]

I am getting a lawyer, I have an appt tomorrow to speak with a consumer fraud attorney. If I have to pay $2000 to make sure he doesn't get to keep my $500, I happily will.

So you spend 2 grand to find out where he lives so you can sue him in small claims court for 500 dollars? You then, assuming you win the small claims case, still have to collect it from him. Very time consuming. Of course, you could choose to turn it over to a collection agency. I'm not sure exactly how they operate but I assume they'd get a chunk of anything collected. But hey, you'd get the satisfaction, right? This is of course, all predicated on the hope that he even resides in the U.S.

Or you know, you could lick your wounds and consider yourself poorer but wiser and just move on.

[diethx]

So you spend 2 grand to find out where he lives so you can sue him in small claims court for 500 dollars? You then, assuming you win the small claims case, still have to collect it from him. Very time consuming. Of course, you could choose to turn it over to a collection agency. I'm not sure exactly how they operate but I assume they'd get a chunk of anything collected. But hey, you'd get the satisfaction, right?

Or you know, you could lick your wounds and consider yourself poorer but wiser and just move on.

Yeah, what the old lady said.

[Tisket]

Shut up.

[Tgo01]

Why are you people talking someone out of drama inducing goodness?

[Tisket]

Why are you people talking someone out of drama inducing goodness?

Oh right. My bad.

Hey! I know! Maybe the OP can convince Anonymous to go after the guy. Expose his personal details to the world. That'll show him.

[SHAFT]

My 2 cents, chalk this up to a $500 life lesson and move on.

[diethx]

Shut up.

Hehehehe. <3

[TheEschaton]

I'll admit, I started searching through obits about halfway through this thread. I found a guy with the same name, but he was 52. I found the 28 year old version in Ohio as well, but no obit associated with it.

[Suppressed Poet]

My 2 cents, chalk this up to a $500 life lesson and move on.

Usually $500 life lessons involve getting bailed out of jail.

At least your bumbum is unscathed.

[waywardgs]

I'll admit, I started searching through obits about halfway through this thread. I found a guy with the same name, but he was 52. I found the 28 year old version in Ohio as well, but no obit associated with it.

That's cause he's not dead, he's 500 bucks richer.

[everan]

I'll admit, I started searching through obits about halfway through this thread. I found a guy with the same name, but he was 52. I found the 28 year old version in Ohio as well, but no obit associated with it.
Ohio, eh, you want I should pay him a visit? Oh wait, I'm not nearly as fearless in person. Never mind.

[diethx]

This thread has taken a turn for the weird.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

This thread has taken a turn for the weird.

Don't they usually? So whats the verdict?! Anyone wanna call this guys house and get confirmation? I already PM'ed pertinent information to FaenorDragonfly, whether or not anything gets done really isn't up to me. But it would be nice to have confirmation of this douchebag so he could be blacklisted from PC and sent demonic in game in whatever guise he's in.

[Tisket]

lol @ internet vigilantism badassery

[SHAFT]

Usually $500 life lessons involve getting bailed out of jail.

At least your bumbum is unscathed.

Speak for yourself.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

lol @ internet vigilantism badassery

It gives me something to do on my breaks...besides...it would be nice if everyone could make future transactions without worrying who the scumbags are or aren't. I recently bought a rogue from Topaz and was needlessly worried about it the entire time even though everything worked out perfectly. I am sure there is good way to handle this without showing up on their front porch even though that might be more entertaining.

[Lolleia]

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc483/sbearington/cyberpolice_zps9b095762.jpg

[Candor]

It gives me something to do on my breaks...besides...it would be nice if everyone could make future transactions without worrying who the scumbags are or aren't. I recently bought a rogue from Topaz and was needlessly worried about it the entire time even though everything worked out perfectly. I am sure there is good way to handle this without showing up on their front porch even though that might be more entertaining.

I think it is safe to say those most character transactions go through without any problems.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I think it is safe to say those most character transactions go through without any problems.

Which is all fine and good unless you're part of the smaller percentage that got fucked. It has happened to me. I was only out like 185 bucks and it was a long time ago, but it still sucked.

[FaenorDragonfly]

Spend the money on a private detective and prove that you can track him down. Everyone seems to think they're so anonymous. With a few dollars you'd be amazed on what you can do.


No...

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

No...

Woo hoo! So I was wrong. Now what are you going to do?

[DCSL]

Too late! I saw and C&Ped the address and I'm not going to do anything with it other than look up his house on Google Maps! MUAHAHAHAHAHA. Hilariously, he appears to live in the middle of a turd-shaped man-made lake.

[Buckwheet]

Anticor is going to get a workout..

Quick everyone quote that address!

[Lolleia]

He's going to need to invest in a new wiener dog.

[everan]

Interesting, on the far side of Cleveland, not that far from our Cleveland office. On the interesting side, that appears to be a vacant lot or maybe a pond.

[Lolleia]

Interesting, on the far side of Cleveland, not that far from our Cleveland office. On the interesting side, that appears to be a vacant lot or maybe a pond.

Is the pond shaped like a penis??

[DCSL]

Nah. If you move a little to the west, there's a house. It's just a large lot of land in the country. With a turd log-shaped pond.

[Buckwheet]

Probably more like a gaping vagina that swallows people's money for stuff that doesn't really exist.

[FaenorDragonfly]

Awwww Anticor Meaniehead edited my post! But, suffice it to say, I have his current address. It is indeed in Ohio. I already spoke to an attorney, she is going to take my case, and we shall see how it goes.

[AnticorRifling]

Wasn't reltov the one that went of the deep end and threatened to .357 us in the face?

[Tgo01]

Well, that escalated quickly.

[DCSL]

Wasn't reltov the one that went of the deep end and threatened to .357 us in the face?

I obviously missed that. I thought he was the (sexy) guy who climbed boulders and had a brain tumor.

[Tgo01]

Wasn't reltov the one that went of the deep end and threatened to .357 us in the face?

I'm not sure. I do remember him acting like a tough guy and giving an address (supposedly his) and telling someone if they have something to say they should come say it to his face.

[Buckwheet]

Apparently its more like $357 to the face after he steals it from someone else first.

[audioserf]

If you are going to pursue legal action you should probably close this thread and edit all your posts out.

[Paradii]

I'm not sure. I do remember him acting like a tough guy and giving an address (supposedly his) and telling someone if they have something to say they should come say it to his face.


Nah that was me. And you're a little bitch, why don't you come fight me. I live at the following address:

Anticore's House
123 Anticore Lane
Anticore, Indiana, 46201

Once again, you're a little bitch. And my name is Anticore.

[waywardgs]

Nah that was me. And you're a little bitch, why don't you come fight me. I live at the following address:

Anticore's House
123 Anticore Lane
Anticore, Indiana, 46201
Anticoria


Forgot the country!

[Robo Internet Police]

I'm watching both of you.

[waywardgs]

Finally, some law and order.

[Internet Police Police]

I'm watching both of you.

And I am watching you.

[Showal]

Wasn't reltov the one that went of the deep end and threatened to .357 us in the face?

YUP!

[Gnome Rage]

We used to talk every now and again, he was a pretty alright dude. I texted him and said DUDE YOU SHOULD GIVE THAT CHICK HER CHARACTER OR HER MONEY BACK BRAH.

so... I've obviously done all I can do.

[Robo Internet Police]

And I am watching you.

I've been upgraded.

"Drop it."

[Rolis]

We used to talk every now and again, he was a pretty alright dude. I texted him and said DUDE YOU SHOULD GIVE THAT CHICK HER CHARACTER OR HER MONEY BACK BRAH.

so... I've obviously done all I can do.

If he replies then would be the time to panic. Surely this would confirm all suspicions that this SOB came back as a Gemstone IV playing zombie to cheat people of there monies. --He is dead, right? Or undead now? Dafuq...

[Buckwheet]

That will just confirm if the person the OP hires to track down the thief needs a bless or not.

[Rolis]

That will just confirm if the person the OP hires to track down the thief needs a bless or not.

Damn, shit in this threat just got real. :D Sorry, not trying to make light of the situation. I hope things work out for you Faenor.

[waywardgs]

This thread should now be crosslinked to the zombie uprising thread. They don't just want brains, they want that paper.

[SHAFT]

That will just confirm if the person the OP hires to track down the thief needs a bless or not.

Zombies are weak to fire! Kill it with fire!

[Tgo01]

I guess the gun threat and the tough guy "here's my address" threat was the same post.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?36834-Respond-to-Reputation-Comments&p=1412705#post1412705

[DCSL]

Zombies are weak to fire! Kill it with fire!

And we're right back to what I said: Burn his house down.

[Buckwheet]

And we're right back to what I said: Burn his house down.

If you do it with tear gas canisters then you can say it was not intentional.

[Warriorbird]

This thread should now be crosslinked to the zombie uprising thread. They don't just want brains, they want that paper.

Zombiggie!

http://beerymethod.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/BIG26-copy1.jpg

[everan]

I guess the gun threat and the tough guy "here's my address" threat was the same post.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?36834-Respond-to-Reputation-Comments&p=1412705#post1412705Another non-house address, but again suspiciously close to a turd shaped pond. Maybe he lives in an RV?

[Jhynnifer]

I obviously missed that. I thought he was the (sexy) guy who climbed boulders and had a brain tumor.

He did both.

[Buckwheet]

Just out of curiosity, I know how you do rock climbing. How do you do a brain tumor?

[waywardgs]

I guess he did epilepsy too, which is why he did agro .357'ing

[Candor]

I guess the gun threat and the tough guy "here's my address" threat was the same post.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?36834-Respond-to-Reputation-Comments&p=1412705#post1412705

Dang, I thought that was a joke. I stand corrected.

[diethx]

lol at hiring a lawyer over this. You made a naive mistake and didn't do enough research before you sent $500 to someone you didn't know. Chalk it up to a learning experience, unless you just want to lose another 2 grand.

If you do want to lose 2 grand, might I suggest you send it to me instead? I will buy clothes with it and then share photos of all my new pretty things, so you can get some enjoyment out of it, too.

[Lolleia]

If you do want to lose 2 grand, might I suggest you send it to me instead? I will buy clothes with it and then share photos of all my new pretty things, so you can get some enjoyment out of it, too.

And take me to Fogo, we can eat assorted meats and laugh at the salad bar!

[Tgo01]

What I've learned from this thread: if given thousands of dollars the first thing women want to do is buy clothes, buy shoes and sample assorted meats in groups.

[Latrinsorm]

Usually $500 life lessons involve getting bailed out of jail.

At least your bumbum is unscathed.
Speak for yourself...which part?

[diethx]

And take me to Fogo, we can eat assorted meats and laugh at the salad bar!

I'm sorry, but that's just blasphemy. The salad bar at Fogo is amazing. Equally as good as the meats-o-plenty. And it has the best, best bacon I've ever had.

[Androidpk]

Give me the $2000 instead and I will write you story full of revenge and erotica.

[Tgo01]

Give me the $2000.

[Lolleia]

I'm sorry, but that's just blasphemy. The salad bar at Fogo is amazing. Equally as good as the meats-o-plenty. And it has the best, best bacon I've ever had.

I have issues with lettuce, it's shady. Never trust anything that is slimy and squeaks.

[Androidpk]

I have issues with lettuce, it's shady. Never trust anything that is slimy and squeaks.

It's slimy because rabbits are always peeing on it.

[diethx]

To discredit the entirety of Fogo's salad bar because you don't like lettuce is insanity.

[Mtenda]

Coincidentally, I returned to Gemstone this past July and attempted to track down my original character. Mxenna contacted me and acted very shady as we talked about the potential deal. Then, after he stopped responding to me I had a friend of mine reach out to him about buying the character. He again disappeared after trying to sell the character to him when he realized that said friend and I were in contact about it. About a year and a half before that, Reltov420 had a thread trying to sell this same character and even had pertinent information about the character. I can only assume at this point that the two of them are either in cahoots with these scams or are the same person or Reltov died and Mxenna is pretending to be him.

[waywardgs]

The plot-gravy thickens.

[Buckwheet]

Are we sure this is not Tuiasosopo who has make up Mr. Yeager because he loves several of you on the forum?

[Latrinsorm]

In Gemstone, no one can hear your ECG monitor.

[FaenorDragonfly]

I am starting to realize that the thing I am most sad about in this whole affair is that I really wanted that ranger! I was super excited about getting her. 500 bucks comes and goes, this was a nice female capped character.

Also, I am 98% convinced that this really is the original Reltov, just from reading past posts, and from info I have now from other people. I try to be a glass half full type of chick, so I will take deep breaths and hope that my money has benefited him in some way.

[Androidpk]

Even for a post cap ranger $500 is kind of a lot. What items was it supposed to have come with?

[FaenorDragonfly]

Even for a post cap ranger $500 is kind of a lot. What items was it supposed to have come with?

Some 7x armor and weapons, a doeskin vest, other random stuff. $500 may have been too much, but I wanted her. She was a race I liked, she had perfect stats, lots of bounty points. Female capped characters for sale are few and far between. I think she was worth $500 in general, she was certainly worth $500 to me. Of course that is beside the point now.

[Tgo01]

What was the name of this mystery ranger?

[FaenorDragonfly]

I don't know, I didn't ask.

[Tgo01]

Are you pulling my leg? :p

[poloneus]

Reltov was outted as a scammer quite some time ago. For some reason I never understood, he was able to keep doing business after he was exposed.

see the link:
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?63410-List-of-known-thieves-scammers-and-worthless-merchants

[FaenorDragonfly]

Okay. These are the things I have learned:

1. Never pay with Gift. Even though it is the common practice with buying and selling GS items, and I have in fact been returned money on Paypal that I paid as Payment to someone for a character and instructed to resend it as Gift, even though everyone wants Gift, never pay with Gift. If you pay with Gift, you have zero recourse with PayPal. None. They will not even make an attempt to do any kind of intervention. They simply say, you paid with Gift, talk to the person that you sent it to. Goodbye and Good Day. Getting really upset about it also surprisingly seems to have no effect. From now on, if someone will not accept my Paypal payment as Payment, then I guess they will have to sell whatever it is to someone else. I have had like 30 private messages instructing me to simply contact Paypal and they will reverse payment or whatever. No, they will not, because I paid with Gift.

2. Never buy from someone a) with a total of three posts ever, or b) someone who has not been logged in for more than a year. If they are selling something I really want, then do some damn research first. This all could have been avoided if I had simply read some old posts. When I learned it was Reltov420, I just said, oh yeah I know that guy, and hey look at all the green rep he has. That was the extent of my thought process on the subject.

3. Don't let myself get complacent. I have bought about a dozen characters, sold about that many, bought many many items with cash, bought items, player shops, silvers... over the course of many years. I have never had even the slightest issues, in fact I have been so impressed with the general honesty and integrity of the PC community that I just kind of took it for granted that everyone was honest. I am by no means going to start assuming that everyone is dishonest, because I know that is not true and I am not going to become bitter and suspicious over this. I just need to be a little more self-preserving and aware of my surroundings.

4. The most important thing I have learned, I really already knew. I have recieved a plethora of green rep and positive, supporting pm's over this. People have been so awesome and so sweet and supportive. This is why I play GS, and why I come to PC, for the amazing community. The biggest thing really is just the anger and embarrassment of being scammed, and no one has made me feel stupid. Thanks guys <3

[Buckwheet]

You are going to have an issue with 1. We can not charge you for Paypal's fee because it is against their terms of service. So if you contact paypal and report someone for charging you extra they can suspend our account. Just buy from trusted people and ask for references in the future before buying something.

That being said, http://www.gregledet.net/ppfcm.html is a good site for you to use to be proactive in sending your payment. The ranger would have cost you $15.24 more.

[FaenorDragonfly]

You are going to have an issue with 1. We can not charge you for Paypal's fee because it is against their terms of service. So if you contact paypal and report someone for charging you extra they can suspend our account. Just buy from trusted people and ask for references in the future before buying something.

That being said, http://www.gregledet.net/ppfcm.html is a good site for you to use to be proactive in sending your payment. The ranger would have cost you $15.24 more.

There needs to be a paradigm shift in this attitude. You are basically refusing to pay a 2.9% transaction fee to Paypal, and forcing buyers to use a payment method in which they have no way to dispute anything. And they are buying digital content, of which the sale of is not supported by GS, so as I have just learned, if you decide not to make good with whatever you are selling, the buyer is screwed.

And the calculator you posted is fine, I would have been happy to have paid 15 bucks to have some buyer protection. Maybe Paypal fees can be split between the buyer and seller. I don't know. But regardless, if refusing to accept Payment means I can no longer ever buy anything from PC, then so be it. Fool me once.

[Buckwheet]

I think you are going overboard. Look at it from a reverse point of view. You were selling your $500 ranger. You transfer this character off the account and then someone does a charge back through paypal and gets the $500 back. You now also lost your character. Would you prefer that? Or would you prefer to have some form of protection? Neither Paypal or Gemstone condone any selling of virtual items. So when the chargeback happens you as the seller are also screwed because the answer Paypal gave you about your purchase is what they would tell you again if you contacted them.

It is far too easy for people to dispute charges on their CC with Paypal. Because the dispute goes through the CC company. There was just another thread about this posted up where basically we listed how easy it is for people paying with a CC to open a dispute.

If Paypal is used either the seller or the buyer is open to 100% guaranteed fraud. You just were the victim of it here while I have been the victim of it several times due to charge backs. If you had done a simple request for references on this forum or just asked on the forum yourself for references you would have been told not to do the deal. Allen was able to scam people because he had long time records of trust and just decided to bail. Unfortunately, there really is no way to detect that.

[FaenorDragonfly]

I think you are going overboard. Look at it from a reverse point of view. You were selling your $500 ranger. You transfer this character off the account and then someone does a charge back through paypal and gets the $500 back. You now also lost your character. Would you prefer that? Or would you prefer to have some form of protection?

Yeah it sucks either way. Who deserves protection, the buyer or the seller? Because it is apparently one or the other. There needs to be a way both parties can have protection. Have we actually had someone charge back Paypal on someone, or is this just a hypothetical situation?

[Buckwheet]

Yeah it sucks either way. Who deserves protection, the buyer or the seller? Because it is apparently one or the other. There needs to be a way both parties can have protection. Have we actually had someone charge back Paypal on someone, or is this just a hypothetical situation?

Several people have had people do charge backs, myself included. It also happens all the time for other digital items in other games like WoW. The seller deserves the protection because again as a buyer you just need to ask here to have long time members post up in support of the person or nix it. You would have been protected by the community if you had just asked.

[FaenorDragonfly]

Allen was able to scam people because he had long time records of trust and just decided to bail. Unfortunately, there really is no way to detect that.

And that is exactly the problem with the third party idea. I don't know you, in fact to my knowledge have never even done any business with you. You have a good merchanting rep, but you could get a brain tumor and fall off of the side of a mountain tomorrow and start scamming people.

[Buckwheet]

I am not going to argue the point because you have already decided how you are going to try and purchase things in the future and are content on not buying anything for cash again if people don't conform to your ideals. I think you are taking this way to far and this event is nothing like Allen or me scamming you. This was a WELL KNOWN scammer and you would have been told that if you had asked before sending someone $500 on the internet. I am sorry you got fucked, but that is no cause for you to call for paradigm shifts for transactions that have worked for the majority of people for like 20 years. I was trying to point out to you that you need to take a breath and wait a while to let this pass. Then come back and only buy from trusted people and ask questions in the future.

Edit:

You have gone from not panicking to panicking, to wanting to spend $2k on a lawyer, to calling Paypal, to getting your lawyer to take your case, to sadness you lost $500 and didn't get the ranger. It has been a wild and crazy day for you and it really does bother me that you got scammed and that I am one of the people who could have help stop it. I think its fine you don't want to do transactions with folks anymore and it probably is a good thing because shit scammers will target previous scammer's targets just because someone else succeeded. Take a break for a while and let yourself recover.

[FaenorDragonfly]

You have gone from not panicking to panicking, to wanting to spend $2k on a lawyer, to calling Paypal, to getting your lawyer to take your case, to sadness you lost $500 and didn't get the ranger. It has been a wild and crazy day for you and it really does bother me that you got scammed and that I am one of the people who could have help stop it. I think its fine you don't want to do transactions with folks anymore and it probably is a good thing because shit scammers will target previous scammer's targets just because someone else succeeded. Take a break for a while and let yourself recover.

I.... what? I am in no kind of emotional turmoil here. My decision to not leave myself open to be scammed again by paying with gift was not made after sobbing on my bathroom floor, like you have made it out to be. Really, why do you care? If you will only take gift, and I will not pay with gift, then I think it is safe to say that our merchanting paths will not be crossing. If you think that my post will influence other people, then good, I hope it will, but I think people are capable of making decisions on their own. I have nothing to recover from, I am pissed as anyone would be, but in no ways distraught. It's $500 bucks, if I couldn't afford to lose it, I wouldn't have spent it on a text character to begin with. Really, I do see your point. And it is a valid point. And I do not have an answer for how everyone can be protected. But as you yourself just said a few posts ago, someone with a good rep went rogue just recently. It could happen again. What kind of an idiot would I be if I did not take steps to protect myself after having been scammed once?

[Buckwheet]

You are the one who posted all that stuff I just summarized it.


What kind of an idiot would I be if I did not take steps to protect myself after having been scammed once?

The one who says they hired an attorney to go after their $500, threatens to spend $2k to get their $500 back, and then claims the $500 is nothing to them because if it meant anything they wouldn't have thrown it away on a text based character in the first place and they can afford to lose $500 and then claims there was no emotional turmoil involved but says they are pissed off. You used the word turmoil but I do not think it means what you think it means.

Oh PS. I care because myself and several others could have told you he was a scammer. I hate seeing scammers win.

[SHAFT]

What goes around comes around. Whoever ripped you off has it coming to em big time. They'll probably try it again and eventually it'll bite em in the ass.

[Archigeek]

Not that I have that much to add, but I bought a handaxe from Reltov a couple years back, though I took the usual precautions with someone who seemed to be a bit flighty. I had no problems. My experience with him leads me to believe thatI'm not sure that he wasn't this calculating, which in turn makes me think this is someone else. That's just speculation though really. Hope you get your character that you wanted eventually.

[Drew]

Personally I wouldn't buy from Reltov or anyone who owned him because I know he scammed someone in '06. I wouldn't buy from anyone who owned the handle of known scammer even if they said they bought the character from someone else. I also wouldn't buy from someone with 420 in their email because that tells me they are young and/or immature. You can say that's judgmental or over the top, but I've never lost any money by being scammed.

[FaenorDragonfly]

They one who says they hired an attorney to go after their $500, threatens to spend $2k to get their $500 back, and then claim the $500 is nothing to them because if it meant anything they wouldn't have thrown it away on a text based character in the first place and they can afford to lose $500 and then claims there was no emotional turmoil involved but says they are pissed off. You used the word turmoil but I do not think it means what you think it means.
You are purposefully misintepreting everything I have said and giving it an emotional spin that is completely fabricated. Yes, I lost $500, and yes I am willing to pay an attorney to get it back. Should I just let him keep it if I can afford to pay someone to help me get it back? It is not about the $500. It has nothing to do with that, it is about not letting a scammer profit off of me. The reason that he is still doing this is because people have continued to let him do it. I am not going to let him do it to me. I don't have to be emotional or verklempt to come to that decision. And I don't think YOU know what the word turmoil means. Being pissed off != turmoil. I'm not arguing with you over this. You are just upset because you want people to pay you with gift and I think that is a bad idea and I am not going to do it. As I said, I understand your point of view, and I don't have a mutually satisfying answer.

tur·moil
[ túr mòyl ]
1.confused disturbance: a state of great confusion, commotion, or disturbance
2.event causing confusion: a disruptive event that causes confusion, commotion, or disturbance

[Buckwheet]

And I do not have an answer for how everyone can be protected. But as you yourself just said a few posts ago, someone with a good rep went rogue just recently. It could happen again. What kind of an idiot would I be if I did not take steps to protect myself after having been scammed once?

The answer is really quite simple. Simutronics would actually need to give a shit firstly, and secondly they would need to embrace the method EVE Online uses. People purchase game time cards from the makers of EVE. EVE Online then has a secure way to sell your game time cards for in game money. Sale of silvers from player to player is now secure.

EVE also has a secure form to fill out that allows you to sell your character for in game currency. So now character sales are secure.

EVE Online lets you turn your game time cards into items that can be sold inside the game. So then the circle would be complete. You would buy game time cards, trade them in for silvers, buy your items or buy game time cards and trade them in for silvers and purchase characters.

This works flawlessly for EVE Online, but again it requires Simutronics to give a shit.

I would say getting scammed out of $500 is a disruptive event that caused a disturbace. Unless you are pissed off all the time. I am not putting any kind of emotional spin in what you said. That is a 100% factual statement. You said everyone of those things almost in that exact same order. If you can afford to lose $500 why would you spend $2k to try and get it back? Why wouldn't you just find another capped ranger and offer the seller $1k for the character and be $1k money ahead?


It is not about the $500. It has nothing to do with that, it is about not letting a scammer profit off of me.

Or as the Joker said: "Its not about the money, its about sending a message." Sounds emotional to me.

I am not upset because I want people to pay me with gift. I prefer people pay that way sure, but I also take Wells Fargo direct deposit, Amazon Payments, Walmart Payments, Bitcoin Payments, and MonkeyPak payments. Hell I am about the friendliest when it comes to options people have to purchase stuff with cash. Hell, I even directly processed a credit card a month back with my merchant account. This is joke now. I have said what other people in the thread have already told you and you just continue to make angry post after angry post at me. I have sold billions in items and coins and I think that is what will determine if people want to buy stuff from me, not if I am taking paypal gift payments or not.

Still sorry to see you get scammed.

[Suppressed Poet]

I think you are missing the bigger lesson here.

1) Don't buy items/characters from an old school text game with real money.

Or

2) If you must buy those things with real money, caveat emptor. It is a good idea to obtain necissary information like a government issued picture id, social security number, last two years audited tax returns, three personal references, a sample of blood, and the all important list of their greatest fears PRIOR to handing over said money. Had you obtained this information and this happened to you, it would have been $500 well spent.

[FaenorDragonfly]

Why wouldn't you just find another capped ranger and offer the seller $1k for the character and be $1k money ahead?

I would love to. The only female characters I get offered are sorcerers.

[Buckwheet]

I would love to. The only female characters I get offered are sorcerers.

I will keep my eyes open for you. Are you looking for any female characters or just capped female? Anything but a sorcerer?

[FaenorDragonfly]

I will keep my eyes open for you. Are you looking for any female characters or just capped female? Anything but a sorcerer?

Preferably capped, but at least 80. Ranger or bard would be super awesome, wizard or rogue would be good. No empaths or clerics, definitely no sorcerers. I've posted that I am looking for a capped female character several times. I have gotten a bunch of offeres for sorcerers, and once a rogue who was way too much but I probably should have bought anyway.

[Tisket]

She hasn't sounded emotional or overwrought in any of her posts. I think she was being silly about spending 2k on a lawyer but even then she didn't sound like she was gnashing her teeth or anything that absurd. Who wouldn't be pissed off at losing 500 bucks anyway. I think she's been very calm about it.

That said...have we decided who here gets the 2k? I want to throw my name in the ring. I promise to use the funds to buy a ticket to the scammers location. Once there, I will carefully place a bag of dog poop on his stoop, light it on fire, and ring the doorbell before tearing out of there. I'll even put a tag on the bag with the PC url so there is no mistaking where this act of vengeance originates.

[FlayedAngel]

That said...have we decided who here gets the 2k? I want to throw my name in the ring. I promise to use the funds to buy a ticket to the scammers location. Once there, I will carefully place a bag of dog poop on his stoop, light it on fire, and ring the doorbell before tearing out of there. I'll even put a tag on the bag with the PC url so there is no mistaking where this act of vengeance originates.

Is this going to become the PC equivalent of Troll Watch?

[Tgo01]

That said...have we decided who here gets the 2k? I want to throw my name in the ring. I promise to use the funds to buy a ticket to the scammers location. Once there, I will carefully place a bag of dog poop on his stoop, light it on fire, and ring the doorbell before tearing out of there. I'll even put a tag on the bag with the PC url so there is no mistaking where this act of vengeance originates.

But what will you be wearing while doing all of this?

[Tisket]

I don't know what that is. I like the name though.

[Tisket]

But what will you be wearing while doing all of this?

If she sends me 2k I'll go naked as a jaybird and I'll take pictures.

[FlayedAngel]

http://trollwatch.newsvine.com/


But what will you be wearing while doing all of this?

...is the better question, though.

[FlayedAngel]

If she sends me 2k I'll go naked as a jaybird and I'll take pictures.

I sense a Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/) in the works already, heh.

[Tisket]

lol, I'm finding Flayedangel educational tonight.

[Helsfeld]

Just a heads up I put the current owner of Goyt which use to belong to reltov on blast on lnet... he claimed he only had a few of his items and was a shared account yet the guy said ken died... He also told me he took over his accounts which I believe to be true I've done like 150 with reltov no problems pretty sure its his buddy or someone stole his dead identity and is sending the money via paypal gift to his own after having the password for the reltov420 account. Well long story short after I blasted him on lnet about it he then tuned off lnet seems someone was admitting guilt?

[FlayedAngel]

lol, I'm finding Flayedangel educational tonight.

For some inexplicable reason, that reminds me of this:


http://youtu.be/Tp_a9TLISoM

Also, given the context, there's probably a joke about putting you through med school in there... somewhere.

[Tisket]

The only way that Christopher Walken could be creepier is if he put on clown makeup. The stuff of nightmares right there.

[FaenorDragonfly]

If I really thought that I could get pictures of Tisket running naked with a bag of flaming poop, I might be very very tempted to send her $2000. I have had a girl crush on Tisket for years. The flaming poop thing would just be funny.

[FlayedAngel]

If I really thought that I could get pictures of Tisket running naked, I might be very very tempted to send her $2000. I have had a girl crush on Tisket for years.

Just a li'l reminder, here's that link again: http://www.kickstarter.com/

[msconstrew]

...Yes, I lost $500, and yes I am willing to pay an attorney to get it back. Should I just let him keep it if I can afford to pay someone to help me get it back? It is not about the $500. It has nothing to do with that, it is about not letting a scammer profit off of me.

A good lawyer would tell you that pursuing something because of the principle of the thing is a waste of time, money and emotion.

[Androidpk]

A good lawyer would tell you that pursuing something because of the principle of the thing is a waste of time, money and emotion.

I don't know about that. I'm not sure how much stock I would place on someone unwilling to stand for their principles because it might be a waste of time, money and emotion.

[Luftstreitkräfte]

Even for a post cap ranger $500 is kind of a lot. What items was it supposed to have come with?

I bought Radom for 600 and sold for 700.. $500 was a good deal IMO. Radom had near perfect stats and his giftbox enhancives and 11m, though.

[diethx]

You know, since Simutronics cares only about money, it honestly surprises me they haven't tried to get in on this sort of racket before. Instead of ignoring the fact that these sales go on, they should cash in on it. They can host the sales, that way both buyer and seller are protected, and charge a fee for it. They'll know the ins and outs of each transaction, and if one of the parties tries to screw the other, they have the recourse to withhold items, characters, silvers, etc. Granted I dunno how feasible this really would be, but it seems like just another way they could make money and somehow make these transactions safer for both parties.

[Gelston]

That sort of thing could possibly lead to them being legally involved as well though, as well as a very good argument that the character and bit of code then actually belonging to the player rather than Simutronics. They likely don't want to have anything to do with that sorta thing.

[diethx]

True, fair enough.

[Vorpodu]

Simutronics could just roll up base characters at high levels and sell em to the player base. Put a cap on it though of course, say level 50. Then if somebody who played before wants to come back but doesnt want to start at level 0, they can just buy a higher level character from Simu itself. Sounds like a good idea to me.

[Gelston]

Simutronics could just roll up base characters at high levels and sell em to the player base. Put a cap on it though of course, say level 50. Then if somebody who played before wants to come back but doesnt want to start at level 0, they can just buy a higher level character from Simu itself. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Perhaps if they sold EXP packages or something. I don't want them to do this though!

[DrZaius]

Simutronics could just roll up base characters at high levels and sell em to the player base. Put a cap on it though of course, say level 50. Then if somebody who played before wants to come back but doesnt want to start at level 0, they can just buy a higher level character from Simu itself. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Not having to hunt rats with a caster seems like it'd make that plan completely worthwhile. Can I pay them to master me in CoL too? I'm sick of running errands for that damned Poohbah.

[Gelston]

If they ever do get SimuCoins into GS, I wouldn't really want anything more than EXP boosts, like Lumnis or RPAs for purchase. You technically already can buy RPAs, but in requires running and winning Night at the Academy.

[Tisket]

Simutronics could just roll up base characters at high levels and sell em to the player base. Put a cap on it though of course, say level 50. Then if somebody who played before wants to come back but doesnt want to start at level 0, they can just buy a higher level character from Simu itself. Sounds like a good idea to me.

I would probably play again if this was an available option. If I could have some input on the name, stat placement, skills, and gender, that is.

[DrZaius]

I would probably play again if this was an available option. If I could have some input on the name, stat placement, skills, and gender, that is.

Whose to say those options aren't all something they could charge for? +$5 so you don't have brooding eyes, etc.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

That shit would get out of hand quick.

[everan]

You know, since Simutronics ...., it honestly surprises me they haven't tried to get in on this sort of racket before. Instead of ignoring the fact that these sales go on, they should cash in on it.....
They basically do cash in albeit to a very limited extent by charging the character transfer fee. But to stand in the middle of the transaction as an escrow would probably be more expensive. They could charge, say $50 or a flat percentage of the transaction. You agree to pay $350 for a character, you pay Simu, Simu transfers the character and extracts its fee, Simu pays the seller. A very secure transaction overall. That's if they want to acknowledge character transfers. That, or Buckwheet could establish a GSIV clearinghouse and do all these things :)

[Buckwheet]

Its not worth the hassle with the shrinking player base.

[Drew]

That sort of thing could possibly lead to them being legally involved as well though, as well as a very good argument that the character and bit of code then actually belonging to the player rather than Simutronics. They likely don't want to have anything to do with that sorta thing.

They could do what EVE does and only let characters be sold for silvers which are an in-game item. Then people buy silvers but they turn a blind eye to that.

[Buckwheet]

They could do what EVE does and only let characters be sold for silvers which are an in-game item. Then people buy silvers but they turn a blind eye to that.

Eve lets you pay for their coins with time cards that are purchased through their store. So they still don't like people buying outside of that and endorse the money for time option.

[Drew]

Eve lets you pay for their coins with time cards that are purchased through their store. So they still don't like people buying outside of that and endorse the money for time option.

Yeah I play Eve so I know that, but Simu doesn't have to go as far as Eve does if they're worried about the sticky wicket of who owns what, doing only silvers is a way to keep it entirely in game.

[Buckwheet]

Yeah I play Eve so I know that, but Simu doesn't have to go as far as Eve does if they're worried about the sticky wicket of who owns what, doing only silvers is a way to keep it entirely in game.

I gotcha.

[Mtenda]

Just a heads up I put the current owner of Goyt which use to belong to reltov on blast on lnet... he claimed he only had a few of his items and was a shared account yet the guy said ken died... He also told me he took over his accounts which I believe to be true I've done like 150 with reltov no problems pretty sure its his buddy or someone stole his dead identity and is sending the money via paypal gift to his own after having the password for the reltov420 account. Well long story short after I blasted him on lnet about it he then tuned off lnet seems someone was admitting guilt?

Good information. I'm leaning towards this theory as well. So anything with the names Reltov, Mxenna, or Goyt on them is a very big red flag.

[Vorpodu]

Nah, anything like that you would have to do yourself. And you wouldn't be able to buy experience after the character was rolled. So if you say wanted to start out at level 20, you could. But you couldnt come back later and say 'Aww I meant level 30'. And the option could only be available to somebody who already has a leveled character attached to their account.

There was supposed to be a quote with this...

[Gelston]

Nah, anything like that you would have to do yourself. And you wouldn't be able to buy experience after the character was rolled. So if you say wanted to start out at level 20, you could. But you couldnt come back later and say 'Aww I meant level 30'. And the option could only be available to somebody who already has a leveled character attached to their account.

There was supposed to be a quote with this...

I could actually see EXP packs being more viable (and possible). There certainly is a way to reward players with EXP/Fame instantly in the game right now, I could see that automated system existing. Also, they'd probably sell more this way as well. Someone buys to level 20, and they are like.. Away, these levels still suck, I wanna be 40 now. Obviously, the way EXP scales as you level, it would get more and more pricey as you did get more levels.

[m444w]

That sort of thing could possibly lead to them being legally involved as well though, as well as a very good argument that the character and bit of code then actually belonging to the player rather than Simutronics. They likely don't want to have anything to do with that sorta thing.

Simutronics owns every character, every item... every line of code. Read the ToS. You have no legal write to anything that you acquire in GS if Simutronics decided to take it away from you so that Whatley could resell it and smoke hash in Tanzania with the proceeds.

All you are licensing by paying your monthly fee is the privilege to use their software.

[SHAFT]

Is smoking weed in Tarzana the same as smoking hash in Tanzania? If so that's pretty easy for me.

[Androidpk]

Is smoking weed in Tarzana the same as smoking hash in Tanzania? If so that's pretty easy for me.

No, hash is so much more delicious. So I have heard anyways..

[m444w]

Is smoking weed in Tarzana the same as smoking hash in Tanzania? If so that's pretty easy for me.

http://www.miserableretailslave.com/Encino%20Man%20Fraser%20Astin.jpg

[milesalpha]

It is a generational thing. Later in life it is harder on the lungs to smoke hash or oil, and hot knifing? Forget it. Or so I have heard anyways....

[WRoss]

It is a generational thing. Later in life it is harder on the lungs to smoke hash or oil, and hot knifing? Forget it. Or so I have heard anyways....

Cooking it is the most effective way anyways.

[SHAFT]

I ate a cookie for the first time a few weeks ago. I got so fucked up. I spent the next day puking and I didn't leave my bed. I think I had too large of a dose but I'm cool on edibles.

What was this thread about originally?

[Androidpk]

Edibles can be strong, especially if you aren't used to them. I had some brownies once and wasn't feeling anything, so I ate some more. Baaaad mistake.

[WRoss]

I'll partake in pot once or twice a year, and prefer edibles. Last time we got a half, made a few ounces of olive-pot oil, and I cooked a full dinner. Started with oil and bread, followed by a mixed green salad with oil and balsamic, then some sorta pasta dish that I forgot. By the time we got to the pasta dish, we couldn't even function, so we saved that for the next day. The past dish was 2x as strong. I couldn't even get up off the couch. That was about a year ago and I'm hesitant to do that again.

[Stanley Burrell]

How 'bout some ether?

What is this thread? Yeah, the guy and then the thing.

[Luftstreitkräfte]

Any result on the $500?

Also amateurs.. hit me up on LNET for a proper mild recipe.

[Gelston]

Simutronics owns every character, every item... every line of code. Read the ToS. You have no legal write to anything that you acquire in GS if Simutronics decided to take it away from you so that Whatley could resell it and smoke hash in Tanzania with the proceeds.

All you are licensing by paying your monthly fee is the privilege to use their software.

Courts don't care about TOS. I'm not saying it would completely make the customer correct that they own the code, but it would give them more ground/standing then currently exists.