Touch of homework help..

[Trinitis]

Ok, I need to come up with a final "bug" for my PC Hardware class by thursday. I've been wracking my brain and I can't really think of one.

My assigned bug is a video problem on a computer, but the error must be done via hardware..so settings and such in XP can't be used.

My first thought was a spliced cable, or maybe a bent pin. But the prof said he wanted something not so simple. My friend said I should open the case and yank a single wire off on the video card, but since we are working on College computers, I dono how well that'd go over.

Any ideas?

[Blazing247]

I just had to troubleshoot a video card problem last night for my work.

They bought a video card, put it in, and sat there for two hours trying to figure out why it didn't work. These are people with C. Engineering degrees. Turns out, the MoBo had onboard graphics and they didn't go to the setup to turn it off.

Of course, your professor might consider the BIOS settings on a MOBO as software, but it really is a hardware conflict.

[Prestius]

This may not be "sexy" enough for a college-level hardware class, but one of the more common problems we run across all the time is : a not properly seated video card. One that is kinda in sometimes actually sorta works but with severly unpredictable results.

-P

[El Burro]

Unplug your monitor? ohh better yet, stick a big magnet in the center of the screen!

Would updating the video cards bios with the wrong one be software?

[jabst192]

overclock it to overheat it and freeze the computer...thermal tempature is definatly hardware

[Artha]

Pull a stick or two of ram out a bit.

[Soulpieced]

If you have 2 sticks of ram of unequal amounts will the computer even boot up? Like if you have a 125 and 256 stick in at the same time.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
If you have 2 sticks of ram of unequal amounts will the computer even boot up? Like if you have a 125 and 256 stick in at the same time.

Depends on the Mother Board. Some yes, some no.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Blazing247
I just had to troubleshoot a video card problem last night for my work.

They bought a video card, put it in, and sat there for two hours trying to figure out why it didn't work. These are people with C. Engineering degrees. Turns out, the MoBo had onboard graphics and they didn't go to the setup to turn it off.

Of course, your professor might consider the BIOS settings on a MOBO as software, but it really is a hardware conflict.

This is a good idea, and I think I'm going to use this as a primary. But I do need to come up with a backup, incase we can't get ahold of a Motherboard with onboard graphics.

Of course, I've never delt with this problem, so If you gotta min, I could use a quick step-by-step of how to turn off the onboard as well :)

[Drew]

Unplug the onboard fan on the video card, will work for a couple of minutes then freeze up.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Drew
Unplug the onboard fan on the video card, will work for a couple of minutes then freeze up.

Will this cause damage to school property? ;)

[Meos]

I think most video boards are gonna have some kind of thermal switch that locks it up before there is hardware damage, once it cools it should start right up? But I guess that depends on the make. Maybe there is a capacitor somewhere you could reverse polarity on :grin:

[imported_Kranar]

<< Of course, your professor might consider the BIOS settings on a MOBO as software, but it really is a hardware conflict. >>

BIOS is software.

Go with the overclocking, but instead of overclocking, try underclocking it. This way no physical damage is done, and if you underclock it enough the computer will be worthless.

[imported_Kranar]

<< I think most video boards are gonna have some kind of thermal switch that locks it up before there is hardware damage, once it cools it should start right up? >>

Only Pentium IV's have this feature. Heck even AMDs don't do this.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< I think most video boards are gonna have some kind of thermal switch that locks it up before there is hardware damage, once it cools it should start right up? >>

Only Pentium IV's have this feature. Heck even AMDs don't do this.

I'd not be so sure bro. I had a problem with my home system a few months ago. It would start to boot up, then shut down. The cause was a $10 fan. The fan on the CPU would not work, thus the computer shut itself down once it hit a set temp. Also, I'm running an AMD. :)

[imported_Kranar]

<< The fan on the CPU would not work, thus the computer shut itself down once it hit a set temp. >>

The motherboard protected the chip.

Pentium IV's have this ability built into the chip, AMDs do not, but some AMD motherboards will shutdown if the temperature gets too high.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< The fan on the CPU would not work, thus the computer shut itself down once it hit a set temp. >>

The motherboard protected the chip.

Pentium IV's have this ability built into the chip, AMDs do not, but some AMD motherboards will shutdown if the temperature gets too high.

Ah, good to know :)

<-- is new to most the hardware stuff. I'm a software/programming guy.

[imported_Kranar]

<< <-- is new to most the hardware stuff. I'm a software/programming guy. >>

Good stuff... programming is where it's at, heh.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< <-- is new to most the hardware stuff. I'm a software/programming guy. >>

Good stuff... programming is where it's at, heh.

Yeh, up untill about a week ago, I had planned on getting all areas of computers covered at the college. Thus taking PC Hardware and such. But I've desided to aim for what I like the most, the programming.

So I expect to be in HTML/Java classes next quater. I also fully expect you (and CT) to teach me XMB. Cause I wanna learn it ;)

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< <-- is new to most the hardware stuff. I'm a software/programming guy. >>

Good stuff... programming is where it's at, heh.

:stupid:

[Trinitis]

Still accepting ideas for this, I've got till 5pm tomorrow to get it figured out. Toss out any realistic ideas you may have :)

[Edited on 7-29-2004 by LordAdredrin]

[Blazing247]

<BIOS is software.

Go with the overclocking, but instead of overclocking, try underclocking it. This way no physical damage is done, and if you underclock it enough the computer will be worthless.>


No shit, Kranar. The problem is resolved through settings in the BIOS, but it IS a hardware conflict. Again, underclocking your CPU is using your BIOS and/or your OS settings, so I'm not sure I see the distinction.

[imported_Kranar]

<< The problem is resolved through settings in the BIOS, but it IS a hardware conflict. >>

No, it's a software conflict. A hardware conflict is when something in one or more pieces of hardware is malfunctioning. You can not correct a hardware conflict using software. You can, however, detect a hardware conflict using software and even use software to just ignore the hardware conflict, but the conflict itself would still exist.

Just like if you went into Windows Device Manager and started messing around with the hardware settings, you would end up with a conflict. This conflict would have nothing to do with the hardware and the hardware would be perfectly fine. The problem is that the software doesn't know how to make use of the hardware.

BIOS is an operating system, it is not a chip, it is not a piece of hardware. BIOS is typically stored on two pieces of hardware called the ROM chip and the CMOS chip, but that doesn't make it hardware just like Windows XP isn't hardware even though it is stored on a hard drive.

When you mess around with BIOS, or if the settings that BIOS uses are incorrectly configured, the problem is that the software doesn't have the proper information to make use of the hardware. The hardware is perfectly fine, there is no conflict with the hardware and there is nothing wrong with it, the problem is simply that the software doesn't know how to properly make use of the hardware.

That is why it is a software conflict, and trying to fix a software conflict by treating it as a hardware conflict can in many cases lead to catastrophic results (eg... Windows XP IRQ_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL BSOD faults).

[imported_Kranar]

<< Again, underclocking your CPU is using your BIOS and/or your OS settings, so I'm not sure I see the distinction. >>

Clocking can be done using BIOS, but the result is usually insignificant and amateurish.

If you want to do some serious clocking on your computer, you're best to do it the real way and do it via hardware. That's how you can get a 2.8 GHz PIV to become a 4.0 GHz PIV monster. BIOS overclocking just doesn't produce any real significant results.

It doesn't involve anything in BIOS and involves changing either the FSB multiplier on the motherboard, or in some cases actually making circuit changes on the chip itself.

[Edited on 7-29-2004 by Kranar]

[Anebriated]

What is the best way to go with computer related majors now? CS is completely overdone at this point. Im planning on switching to Computer Engineering sometime in the next semester but I was just wondering what the opinions where of those who are already out in the workforce. As of right now I dabble in a bit of everything, software, hardware, just dont know where ill end up except to say that ill be in a computer related field.

[Blazing247]

Kranar, simply put, you are wrong.

It's a fucking hardware conflict. It's two pieces of computer hardware fighting for the same resources which causes both to function improperly. Or are you trying to say that installing two hard drives and setting both to master isn't a hardware conflict, either? In your definition, there would never, ever be a hardware conflict. Note the word conflict: a problem between two hardware devices. Not a hardware malfunction. You are WRONG.

To make yourself sound further like an ass, you say something like this:
<That's how you can get a 2.8 GHz PIV to become a 4.0 GHz PIV monster.>

Okay buddy, stop slinging the shit. Even with a compressor cooled system with the best thermal paste out there, you will fry your CPU if you overlock a P 2.8 to 4.0. I've never, ever heard of such a thing. If you have a 3.4, you MIGHT be able to reach 4.0 but with high instability. So this is FALSE, too.

<It doesn't involve anything in BIOS and involves changing either the FSB multiplier on the motherboard, or in some cases actually making circuit changes on the chip itself. >

To top it off, you disprove your own argument. Changing the FSB multiplier and Vcore are done VIA THE BIOS. Or maybe in Canaduh, you have found another way to do this. The only other way I know of is to actually fuck with the processor bridges themselves, which is dangerous and stupid unless you have a lot of experience. Most processors have limit locks on the multipliers, at any rate. So this is FALSE, as well.

Anything else you want to bullshit about?

[Blazing247]

IMHO, the best way to get a good tech job is to have certifications. To this day, having a CCSA, CCNA, MCSE, etc. all look better than a shitty four year degree.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Okay buddy, stop slinging the shit. Even with a compressor cooled system with the best thermal paste out there, you will fry your CPU if you overlock a P 2.8 to 4.0. I've never, ever heard of such a thing. If you have a 3.4, you MIGHT be able to reach 4.0 but with high instability. So this is FALSE, too. >>

It can be done simply by increasing the voltage on the PIV from 1.5V to 1.7V by changing the voltage pin on the chip itself. Pins 3 and 4 are the voltage pins.

Infact I recall reading a benchmark of a 2.8 PIV being overclocked to 4.5GHz using really sophisticated cooling techniques, but that's really pushing it. Intel processors aren't supposed to run at anything beyond the 1.8-1.9V mark because they suffer from erosion which can quickly deterioate the system, but PIVs initially sell running at 1.5V which is very conservative and changing it to 1.7V isn't dangerous at all, infact AMD chips run at 1.6-1.7V.

As I said... the amateurish way of overclocking is going into BIOS and playing around with the keyboard thinking you know everything about how a computer works and patting yourself on the back afterwards. But real overclocking is done physically via multipliers that are found on the hardware itself. This is very standard stuff and information about the which pins do what can usually be found on the manufacturers website.

<< Or are you trying to say that installing two hard drives and setting both to master isn't a hardware conflict, either? >>

Clearly you know little on this issue. A hard drive must be physically set to master before you can get BIOS to recognize it as a master drive. To have a hard drive set to master or SLAVE requires you to actually configure the pins on the back of the hard drive using jumpers. Once the hard drive has been configured, then you get BIOS to either treat it as a master or as a SLAVE. If you get BIOS to treat a master drive as a SLAVE, then it is a software issue, not a hardware issue as the software simply doesn't understand or know what the device is supposed to be configured to. The hardware works perfectly fine.

<< In your definition, there would never, ever be a hardware conflict. Note the word conflict: a problem between two hardware devices. Not a hardware malfunction. You are WRONG. >>

This isn't my definition vs. your definition, this isn't a subjective thing we're discussing here where we can just go and make up whatever we think feels right. There are rules that govern how a computer works and how it operates and these rules are beyond our control, they are specified by the manufacturers themselves. You either know them, or you don't.

<< Or maybe in Canaduh, you have found another way to do this. >>

In any country in the world, the multipliers are controlled physically via pins that can be turned on and off.

[Edited on 7-30-2004 by Kranar]

[imported_Kranar]

<< What is the best way to go with computer related majors now? CS is completely overdone at this point. >>

CS is indeed overdone because of the sheer volume of people who take it and the fact that not every university teaches the same material. CS isn't standardized so to speak so having a CS degree can mean one of many things.

<< Im planning on switching to Computer Engineering sometime in the next semester but I was just wondering what the opinions where of those who are already out in the workforce. As of right now I dabble in a bit of everything, software, hardware, just dont know where ill end up except to say that ill be in a computer related field. >>

Either computer engineering if you're into hardware and want to actually design computers in the future. Not just put computers together or fix them but actually design new chips and circuit boards for anything from calculators, to modern equipment that make use of specialized computers. In computer engineering that's what you specialize in, making use of computers, either large scale microchips that will power the PCs of tomorrow, or creating calculators or small scale computers specialized for a company or industry. It's much more intensive than software engineering, that's for sure.

Software engineering is focused more on the design and creation of software. It is not a programming degree, even though programming is involved. One of the most important things you'd learn is that sitting infront of a computer typing lines of code makes up maybe 5 percent of what goes into a successful computer application. Coding isn't even always done by software engineers, the software engineers focus mostly on the designing and the architecture and then send it off to a coder who does the rest.

Between the two, who makes more money? I'd have to say computer engineers, but software engineering is just darn fascinating.

[Edited on 7-30-2004 by Kranar]

[imported_Kranar]

<< Anything else you want to bullshit about? >>

Feel free to insult me or call me on this bullshit all you want.

I mean, with politics or social sciences it's one thing because I'll admit I'm not expert on it so if someone wants to give me the dumb shit award for something I say about Iraq or the U.S. I have no choice but to respect the difference of opinion and ignore it.

When it comes to computers though... I live and breathe this stuff every single day of my life for hours, and I assure you, I won't hesitate one bit to call you or correct you on anything you say that I know for a fact is incorrect.

The only single insult you can sling at me regarding computers in which I am completely defensless against is the fact that I am a geek, a nerd, and probably have no life outside of computers and if you want to insult me that way by all means do so... because I take it as a compliment.

[Edited on 7-30-2004 by Kranar]

[imported_Kranar]

Figured I'd provide some outside references to support my claim.

While I can't find a particular example of a PIV 2.8 GHz being overclocked to 4.0GHz, these guys managed to take a PIV 2.4GHz to 3.5 GHz:

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NDcx

That's an extra 1.1 GHz they manage to squeeze out of it and this is from a 2.4GHz. The multiplier on a 2.8GHz would make it much more flexible to work with. They actually get the 2.4GHz to run at 3.3 GHz using nothing more than a cheap stock cooling system.