Abuse of Smile

[Samin]

I really, really hate the abuse of smile, so when Tealcie runs into TSC and does this...
Tealcie smiles as she walks by wearing a sandwich board sign proclaiming The Fluffy Puff Grand Opening! Ladies Fashions From Across The Lands The First Boutique Ye Find East of the Brewery.

I go to her own shop and do this..

You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Immolation...
Your spell is ready.
>
You are visible again.
You gesture at Tealcie.
CS: +315 - TD: +81 + CvA: +12 + d100: +63 - -5 == +314
Warding failed!
Wisps of black smoke swirl around Tealcie and she bursts into flame!
... 50 points of damage!
Left arm incinerated. Unfortunate.
She is stunned!
... 55 points of damage!
Flame consumes Tealcie's right arm all the way to the shoulder.
... 70 points of damage!
Fire completely surrounds Tealcie. Blood boils and heart stops.

* Tealcie drops dead at your feet!


A nearby goodwife screams, "Murder!"

Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
* Tealcie just bit the dust!

[Bobmuhthol]

She was doing that like 3 hours ago.

I'd have killed her, but I hate killing people I know because whining = sucks.

[Numbers]

Did you at least try to ask her to stop beforehand? And explain to her that she was abusing the smile verb?

[Kitsun]

She may have abused the smile verb but does that really give *you* the right to go to her shop and kill her?

Is your character really such an unreasonable prick that he doesn't like women's clothing boutiques? Do you really have any kind of ingame justification for lashing out at her? Do you suffer from control freak issues?

Her use of the verb was tacky at best, but I don't see how it warrants the use of PvP force. Did she even have any idea WHY you off'd her?

Did you even attempt to contact her about your concern over her choice of advertisement techniques?

[Samin]

Well, I guess she knows now.

[Drew2]

Ignore the RP police.

Killing was the way to go. :thumbsup:

[Jonty]

How's that abuse?

[Samin]

Okay, I'm a fucking prick. And no, he doesn't like wearing women's clothing.

Cool! I get to get into an arguement now! I know I was wrong, but it found it funny. Few others did too.

[Samin]

Its abuse because She isn't wearing a sign. Thats just like giving people 5674567456 coins using smile.

[Blazing247]

Technically, it isn't abuse of the smile verb. It's a stupid use of it, but not abuse of it.

Abuse of the smile verb would be using it to make another person feel and/or do something against their will.

i.e. "Samin smiles at Tealcie, and Tealcie, overwhelmed by feelings of whoreish-ness, jumps down to her knees and begins to give him brains."

Many people have (un?)successfully but legally used the smile verb over the years to portray deaf and/or dumb characters by using sign language or writing on a sign that their character didn't possess.

[Samin]

She was using the smile verb to add things to her character that she didn't have....

So according to you, I could smile and gives you 200000 silvers which you quickly pocket! and thats not abuse? Its the SAME THING. Its using smile to portray something I don't have or didn't give you. Using smile to create a fake sign is basically showing you something that she DOESN'T HAVE so you couldn't SEE IT.

[Edited on 2004728 by Samin]

[Bobmuhthol]

No because that forces my character to do something. I may have thrown the coins in your eye socket inside of pocketing them!!!!111

[Kitsun]

Her use of the smile verb did not make her have any item of value or change anything ingame that was out of context of a roleplaying game.

Someone that is happy/proud/elated that their new shop is open can go out, grab a piece of card and a pen and make up a sign for their shop to show off. Gemstone mechanics do *not* allow for that to be made at whim but it doesn't mean that characters shouldn't be able to do it.

And I'm hardly the roleplay police. For people that jump on a bandwagon to chastise others for bringing OOC into the game, you sure do love blurring lines when its something you enjoy giggling at.

[Blazing247]

<She was using the smile verb to add things to her character that she didn't have....

So according to you, I could smile and gives you 200000 silvers which you quickly pocket! and thats not abuse? Its the SAME THING. Its using smile to portray something I don't have or didn't give you. Using smile to create a fake sign is basically showing you something that she DOESN'T HAVE so you couldn't SEE IT.>

She added things to HER character. Your analogy is wrong. A better analogy would be, you smile, heft your coin purse, and say there are 200 million coins in it. Which isn't against smile policy. Again...making others FEEL/ACT against their will is abuse of the smile verb. Making yourself do things you normally can't, or have things you really don't (within limits), isn't abuse.

If you can't see the difference, that's your problem.

Samin smiles and bows in a regal manner with his finely-stitched black cloak.

Samin smiles and bows in a regal manner, causing you to drop your sword in reverance.

One is ok, one isn't. Damn man, don't be so thick headed.

[Samin]

It doesn't matter if its of value or not. Its creating something that doesn't exist. In real life, you can't just make a sign appear, you gotta get one made or make it. SAME THING. She could easily just yell out ads, and wait to get an alter later.

[Skirmisher]

Maybe you had a bad day or something, and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you did as you are being so closed minded about this situation as to take away any credence you may have been given.

No one impacted on your RP with her walking around with a sign about her new store.

She did not say she was shoveling flyers into all your pockets, or placing them in your hand as you walked by. She simply said what was on the sign.

You did not show you trying to explain to her how she was hurting your game experience, or us for that matter.

Please try again. This thread is not portraying you in the best light.

[Kitsun]

Okay, one last try.

There's a not-so-thin line between mechanics abuse and roleplay.

You can feel free to call in a GM to see if they can tell the difference, or post on the official boards and ask. But we're telling you, as fairly reasonable people, that what she did really wouldn't even get her a slap on the wrist as far as mechanics abuse is concerned. While the other instances listed would probably get an unofficial warning(ie handing out nonexistant coins).

I've witnessed these types of arguements before and for some reason, select people are unable to free their minds from the mechanical background of GS to experience the use of imagination within the boundaries of the game itself.

So while her smile usage was borderline, you freely admit you were wrong in what you did. This makes you a better person how? "u bhig tuff dewd wit big CS, lok at meh."

To sum up this scenario:
Somebody obviously enjoying themselves with a new release tries to roleplay a sales pitch(however bad). You don't like it, so you go and blast her. You have fun and laugh. You attempt to ruin her day, damn the consequences.

Basically, you're a big flippin' dense dirtbag. Welcome to the PC.

[Artha]

One is ok, one isn't. Damn man, don't be so thick headed.

What if he doesn't have a regal black-stitched cloak?

[Samin]

I don't have a damn cloak at all! I have a SATCHEL instead. And you can't speak for more than yourself anyways. You are not people, you are a person.

Besides, its a non event anyways, we are friends now. SEE! THATS HOW YOU MEET PEOPLE! YOU SLAUGHTER THEM FIRST!

[Skirmisher]

These things require one to think for a second.

If someone walks around full time, always with some sign placed upon them with smile verb usage, that would be seen as abuse.

If soneone is using it occasionaly for a rather innocuous purpose that is rather believeable rpwise, there just is no reason to decide to go all punisher on her.

Try to think for a minute what the spirit of the rule intended.

Sorry, this is not someone abusing smile.

:no2:

[Edited on 7-28-2004 by Skirmisher]

[Samin]

She was using it for like 3 hours prior.. Thats a fairly long time for a smile.

[Skirmisher]

I'm glad you worked it out.

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Samin
And you can't speak for more than yourself anyways. You are not people, you are a person.


If you'll pay attention, there's more than one of us here that thinks you're dense.

[Samin]

Yeah, and theres also two people that agreed with me, so I'd say its even.

[Samin]

[quote]Originally posted by Kitsun
She may have abused the smile verb but does that really give *you* the right to go to her shop and kill her?

You even AGREED it was an abuse.. So umm.. Being a little inconsistent to agree with people that don't agree with me?

[Edited on 2004728 by Samin]

[Kitsun]

Bob and Tayre's one to two liner supporting chants of KILL KILL KILL BECAUSE I R A REPRESSED RETARD IN SHACKLES OF OPPRESSION OF THINGS THAT SURPRESS AND STUFF don't count. Both of them are mentally unstable and kill on whim... well I guess I see a pattern now.

[Samin]

Umm... That still doesn't make them any less of a person than you are. Your opinion isn't greater than theirs.

[Edited on 2004728 by Samin]

[Edited on 2004728 by Samin]

[Kitsun]

Geez, talk about nit picking arguements. The "may" in the sentence preceding the "abuse" was allowing for the offchance that by some fluke in reality you may be right. Or you could read it as a minor abuse due to the fact it was damnably tacky. I even noted earlier that I didn't think her use was absolutely entirely appropiate.

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Samin
Umm... That still doesn't make them any less of a person than you are. Your opinion isn't greater than theirs.


If you really want to count two ill thought out, possibly jesting posts as a real opinion that is your perogative.

[Samin]

Everything you say can and will be held against you! So don't make mistakes!

[Artha]

You should get an RPA for killing her.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Both of them are mentally unstable and kill on whim...>>

Thank you for telling me what I do. You know Celexei did that earlier, and she lost an altered tempered heavy greataxe because of it.

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Samin
Everything you say can and will be held against you! So don't make mistakes!

Okay Mr. Four Edited posts out of a total of 18.

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<Both of them are mentally unstable and kill on whim...>>

Thank you for telling me what I do. You know Celexei did that earlier, and she lost an altered tempered heavy greataxe because of it.

How exactly does her saying something lose her an axe?

[Artha]

From what I understand of it, it went like this.

Jayvn: Drop container
Bob: Grab container
Celexei: Here's an axe for the container
Bob: Thx
Lots of people: You should give the axe back
Bob: *Pretends to drop axe in well*
Lots of people: You dick.
Bob: Lolz
*like an hour later
Bob: Here's your axe
Celexeii: <3

[Samin]

They are edited yeah, BUT I FIXED THE SHITS so you can't really say much

[Bobmuhthol]

Jayvn didn't drop it. I thought it was Hance (Geoffani) transferring items like a fucking retard in TSC because he kept picking up the items Nihahtghtkas (or something) was dropping. Turns out they were Celexei's after I laughed my ass off. Indica said to be the man and return it, and I was like, "Well I fucking hate you so no." Then Celexei TOLD ME that I would never give it back, and somehow expected it back thinking she asked nicely. I've never kept anything like that but suddenly have this reputation for it. Then I get Jolena telling me she'll pay 500k for it and I refer them to Phone Booth where Stu was offering to pay the guy to rent the booth and all the guy wanted was respect. Basically everyone was too stupid to see my point except one guy who agreed with me. A billion other people started offering me shit, and Celexei says she'll give me an altered tempered heavy greataxe for it, so I agree (not because I was greedy -- I showed that already, but because personal loss = lesson learned). We had a third party do the exchange and I went hunting. I got at least 6 offers ranging from 500k to a harness to a claidh to 5mil. Then I put up a bogus log of me dropping it in the well. A while later I handed it to Celexei and all of the people who said shit about me decided, "Hmm I was wrong but I'll never admit it publicly," so fuck them.

[Mersaydes]

Because Tealcie wasn't directly affecting anyone, I think it's just.

If she smiled and gave you silver, she'd be using her smile as a false interaction - but because the smile was isolated - I do not believe it is abuse.

Of course, there is a thin line that can only be defined by a GM. If she were to walk in and pull out a mega death sword - it wouldn't work.

But sandwhich boards are rather frequent and littered throughout Gemstone. I see no reason why a character couldn't possess one. Thus - I see no fault in her advertisement. Sure, it's annoying, but killing her is a bit uncalled for.

I just think you're cranky.

[Samin]

I know you are but what am I?

[Mersaydes]

dammit bitch. Don't make me tell you twice.

Cranky

[Artha]

But sandwhich boards are rather frequent and littered throughout Gemstone.

Show me five.

[Faent]

:wtf: :stfu: :talktohand: :boring: :break:

Samin = :newbie:

Sorry pal, it's not abuse.

-Scott

[Artha]

Dear Faent/Scott,

I meant in GemStone. I'm sorry if this was not clear.

Also, none of those is a sandwich board.

<3,
Artha

[Edited on 7-28-2004 by Artha]

[Amberlei]

I actually think it was a rather cute and creative way to advertise. It wouldn't make me rush to her store to take a look, but I can think of very few things that would.

[Samin]

OH SHIT! FAENT HAS BEEN A MEMBER OF PLAYERS CORNER FOR 3 MONTHS!!!!!!!!! DAMN! I'M SUCH A NEWBIE COMPARED TO YOU.. dork.

[Samin]

And by the way, if you think its not, then don't use a bunch of smileys like a fucking valley girl, how about arguing your point?

[SpunGirl]

I can *kind* of see how it could be considered abuse. Including what was said on the sign and assuming all gathered in the room can read it is lame, because not everyone would be necessarily be able to read the language it was written in. There are some people in-game who RP characters who can't read at all.

Having said that, it wasn't necessary to go kick her ass for it. You could have reported it and let the GMs handle it if they thought it was that big of an issue.

You could also be less lame on these boards.

-K

[Samin]

No, I will kick everyone's ass. Thank you.

[DeV]

The sign appeared to be more of an annoyance than abuse. Killing her for it I'm sure gave you a sense of satisfication. However, it was unnecessary.

[Kitsun]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Including what was said on the sign and assuming all gathered in the room can read it is lame, because not everyone would be necessarily be able to read the language it was written in. There are some people in-game who RP characters who can't read at all.


When a character inability is for RP purposes, I believe it falls onto the player to just ignore specifics and play as if the character never saw it.

I mean, if a character were colorblind, there are all these items that show color. Do we now remove all types of color from items to respect their RP? More likely we expect the player behind the character to figure out what is/isn't distinguishable.

[Prestius]

The title of this thread should be "Abuse of Immolation"

-P

[Faent]

>>OH SHIT! FAENT HAS BEEN A MEMBER OF PLAYERS CORNER FOR 3 MONTHS!!!!!!!!! DAMN! I'M SUCH A NEWBIE COMPARED TO YOU.. dork. -Samin

:lol:

>>And by the way, if you think its not, then don't use a bunch of smileys like a fucking valley girl, how about arguing your point? -Samin

I prefer to just call you a :noob: There's no sense in arguing with rocks. :rock:

Now :stfu: and go :jerkit:

-Scott

[Samin]

.... You are just bursting with intelligence. And no, I jacked off earlier today.

[Izalude]

I think you should have warned her verbally or through whispers first instead of just outright blasting her. I personally don't think that what she did with the sign was abusive, however if they tried to smile and hand you something, or pass you coins, then yes. That's abuse.

If you think someone is abusing the smile verb, then report instead of killing someone. Outright killing someone like that, with no roleplay whatsoever will get you into some hot water with the GM's.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Kitsun


When a character inability is for RP purposes, I believe it falls onto the player to just ignore specifics and play as if the character never saw it.



That's a really good point, actually.

-K

[SpunGirl]

Also, Samin, insulting the intelligence of everyone who disagrees with you makes you a loser.

-K

[Faent]

>>And by the way, if you think its not, then don't use a bunch of smileys like a fucking valley girl, how about arguing your point? -Samin

>>You are just bursting with intelligence. -Samin

Try that comment again after you learn both how to spell and how to properly punctuate your run-on sentences.

Kthx.

-Scott

[No, I didn't edit this to fix a spelling error. ]

[Edited on 7-28-2004 by Faent]

[Samin]

I'm sorry Mr. Scott. I didn't know my english paper was due.

I'm not insulting everyone that disagrees with me, by the way. I'm insulting people who are trying to insult me.

[CrystalTears]

I don't think any abuse of smiles should be an invitation for another character to kill them for it. If you felt it was that troubling or insulting to your gaming experience, you should have just reported the incident. Killing her was just petty.

With that being said, I would have considered her use of smile to parade a sign she doesn't have as abuse. She doesn't possess the sign. It's not tangible so to me, it would have been considered imaginary. I would look at her and not see a sign anywhere. That is why I would consider it abuse.

I do seem to remember a debate one time about someone talking to their imaginary dragon or pet or something and people basically agreed that it was abuse. Why is that abuse, the smile act to produce a pet, and the holding up of a sign isn't? You either have the object or you don't.

So as long as I don't affect anyone else, I can conjure up an object I don't actually possess through a smile or act and it will be okay according to this conversation? Groovy.

[Kitsun]

Okay, say her hands weren't empty. Say she was holding 'a piece of parchment.' Would that then be okay with you? She's got an item inhand that resembles the image she's trying to get across when you look at her, but you wouldn't be able to read it without the assistance of her player guiding her character.

A pet dragon I would see as a form of abuse, but honestly I don't put these two in the same category.

For the longest damn time, I had to try to collect pieces of items to form signs for alters. This was an annoying process. My character was well trained in all mannerisms of magical item usage yet he can't make a sign. I actually had to get a stick, a piece of parchment, some charcoal or paint and some string to hold it all together. Now my character can sit there and wonder why he can go raiding dimensional portals but can't get this sign assembled.

Or other players could try to help life along by imaginging there's a sign, a very mundane item.

[CrystalTears]

I would prefer the parchment, actually.

I debate these types of things all the type, but the truth of the matter is I don't say anything in game about them. I don't report anyone for them, and I certainly don't kill them for it. My character simply does not care. I, as the player however, see things differently so I discuss and argue it.

Saying and doing things in the game usually doesn't accomplish anything but annoy the other player(s) and their enjoyment of the game. Discussing the pros and cons of such actions in an OOC medium helps me feel as though maybe the people who do such things and will think them through a little. Not everyone in the game makes other players feel like noobs and jerks for not knowing what makes people tick.

My characters would have seen her waving the sign and followed her to her store. I the player would have thought the smile act was poorly done and smirked at it. :shrug:

[Blazing247]

<With that being said, I would have considered her use of smile to parade a sign she doesn't have as abuse. She doesn't possess the sign. It's not tangible so to me, it would have been considered imaginary.>

I don't play a cleric in real life. I imagine it through text. Oh wait, isn't that what this game is about? Roleplaying and imagination?

Or are you really trying to say imagining something in an imaginary game is a bad thing? It's a good thing, in my opinion, as long as you stay within reasonable confines. A dragon is not reasonable. A sign, however, is.

[CrystalTears]

Hey, imagine all you want. I don't have to agree with how people create items out of thin air to roleplay.

[Blazing247]

Again, you are failing to understand the difference between what is reasonable, and unreasonable. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of policy. It isn't abuse, or at least wasn't back when the dumb dwarf (forget his name) used to talk via a large chalkboard and chalk utilizing the smile and act verbs. End of story.

Fact is, the GM's agree with me. If you don't believe me, do an assist and ask the Host. Not that they know much, but they can certainly look up policy.

[CrystalTears]

I didn't really mean it was the kind of abuse that would get a slap on the hand by a GM. I meant it more in the sense that you're using it to make it provide something you don't have.

I'd love to ask a host about it but unfortunately I don't play anymore. I hardly think they would pull up anyone for a smile like that, however I bet that someone would think it was a little much. So with something like that, I think it could very well be up to personal opinion. Apparently not everyone sees it the same.

I see it no different than creating a hat, a sign, a flower, a mirror, a fan, or anything else that's "reasonable".

[Blazing247]

I understand what you're saying, but think of how boring a game it would be if our imagination were limited to what the GM's allowed us to play with/utilize. If she had done all this with the act verb, would it have been different?

[CrystalTears]

Nope, I wouldn't have seen it any different with an act.

Um... I have never conjured up an object to roleplay, and I know hundreds of others who didn't need to either.

[SanGreal]

All that and you still went to her shop.

Annoying Advertisements: 1
You: 0

[Tsa`ah]

This thread got a bump and I had to read.

It has been stated by several GMs on the official boards, albeit years ago when I actually read them, use of smile and act to create an item you do not have is abuse of the verbs.

Specifically signs. Augie and Grabs used to venture to TSSW and hold up signs that they were indeed stealing ... Spanked. Holding up a sign while silenced ... Spanked.

Holding a stick and writing in the dirt ... iffy.

Unless you don't know how to read or search, I don't see how you can't understand that the use of smile or act to create ANYTHING you do not have on your person or another person you are interacting with is abuse.

Smiling and pulling a cookie from a GM's or GH's pocket ... is abuse. Signs ... are abuse.

If you don't believe what has been told to you, go ask on the official boards or write a GM or Feedback ... they may respond to the trivial. If it differs from what has been said here, post it and link it.

[Blazing247]

Funny that you should say that, Tsa'ah. There were more than a few characters that relied on the act and smile verbs to use a chalkboard, write in the sand, or hold up a sign as they played their character as a mute. Never, ever, did they get in trouble.

Augie probably got busted cause she is a dirty, dirty whore.

[CrystalTears]

This type of abuse is comparibly up there with Vishra's use of smile and act to change the pronoun. It's not going to be enough for the GMs to pull up anyone for it, but that doesn't make the use any less abuse on some level.

[DCSL]

Here's some real smile abuse:

Foxs smiles intriguing as loose strands of her platinum hair blow across her indigo eyes, slightly obscuring her view, aimlessly. In a swift yet delicate motion the few loose strands are placed and laid back behind her sharply pointed dark elven ears. You notice light reflecting off of her eyes giving her a seductive yet demonic appearance. You soon find yourself gazing into her eyes in an almost hypnotic state.

[Numbers]

Ugh, that's terrible.

[CrystalTears]

Okay, that's total abuse, and it makes me want to gouge my eyes out with a fork. :break:

[Nieninque]

Should have said "look at me like that again Lady, I'm sticking an arrow in yer eye!"

[DCSL]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Should have said "look at me like that again Lady, I'm sticking an arrow in yer eye!"

Heh, well, I would have 'cept for two things. 1. I don't have any archer characters 'cause I'm lazy. 2. The particular character I'm on likes to go unnoticed if at all possible.

But yes, it was a stupid smile that forced my character to be hypnotized by a generically attractive and wholly unremarkable Faendryl that she wasn't even looking at.

Besides, since when is light reflecting off eyes seductive or demonic? When I see light reflecting off someone's eyes, I don't think to myself, "Damn, I want to bang that person so bad, but they're quite scary!" 'course, that could just be me....

[Parkbandit]

Report Foxs is abusing the smile verb with: "Foxs smiles intriguing as loose strands of her platinum hair blow across her indigo eyes, slightly obscuring her view, aimlessly. In a swift yet delicate motion the few loose strands are placed and laid back behind her sharply pointed dark elven ears. You notice light reflecting off of her eyes giving her a seductive yet demonic appearance. You soon find yourself gazing into her eyes in an almost hypnotic state. " I'm not in a hypnotic state and she's a dumbass... can I kill her?

[Apathy]

Personally I wish there were a few more verbs with smile's versatility. Something like a verb for anger, sadness, and surprise that could all be used freely.

Smile while he closes his eyes and thinks deeply of love long past...

doesn't really work :(

[Fallen]

Act verb.

[Apathy]

( ) = suck

[Caiylania]

It would be nice if they did the same for frown at least. The two basic mouth visuals for emotion would be covered.

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Report Foxs is abusing the smile verb with: "Foxs smiles intriguing as loose strands of her platinum hair blow across her indigo eyes, slightly obscuring her view, aimlessly. In a swift yet delicate motion the few loose strands are placed and laid back behind her sharply pointed dark elven ears. You notice light reflecting off of her eyes giving her a seductive yet demonic appearance. You soon find yourself gazing into her eyes in an almost hypnotic state. " I'm not in a hypnotic state and she's a dumbass... can I kill her?

Please tell me you made that up for your own amusement. Smiles intriguing??!?!?

Barf.

-K

[Miss X]

LOL no she really did do that. I was pissed, there is no way Chica would gaze into a Faendryl's eyes. Although, she is just SO seductive and demonic, perhaps its natural to stare at her! ;)

[HarmNone]

Just barf on her and tell her you're really sorry but you saw that flash in her freaking eyes and thought she was on fire. :whistle:

HarmNone might do that

[Tsa`ah]

Or imbed an axe in her head and sit there poking her with a stick while asking if the ugly is dead yet.

[HouseofElves]

K, go to the Landing or she is normally outside the gates a lot since she got banished and just GLANCE FOXS. She will turn back at you and hit her lovely little macro.

She has some others too. One of them is braiding her hair in an ancient Faendryl style that hasn't been seen since before Ashrim was destroyed or something like that.

She makes me want to do mean things to her ancient Faendryl parents for having her.