Michael Moore again...

[GSTamral]

<<<

Bush Invited to 'Fahrenheit' Screening
Tuesday July 27 6:21 AM ET


Filmmaker Michael Moore is bringing his blockbuster documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" to President Bush's adopted hometown and has invited the film's star to attend.

When it appeared that no movie theater in the president's home county would show the anti-Bush documentary, Moore promised a copy to the Crawford Peace House, a facility for seminars, meetings, or workshops dedicated to peace.

A theater in Waco picked up the movie last week, but Moore later offered to come to Crawford to introduce his movie and discuss it afterward.


Organizers expect about 1,000 people to attend the show Wednesday night at a football stadium parking; police said demonstrators against the film were also expected.

"I personally think we're just a little town, and it's kind of an invasion in our small town," said Fran Shelton, whose family owns the Crawford Coffee Station. "Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I'd be happier if he didn't bring it to Crawford."

Moore, on his Web site, invited Bush to attend, saying he wanted a chance to thank him personally for starring in the film. "And let's face it, you've got some of the funniest lines in the film!" he wrote.

A White House representative did not return a call early Tuesday.

Moore's condemnation of Bush's actions regarding the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks recently became the first documentary to top the $100 million mark domestically.

>>>


What Moore Says: "I'm bringing this film to Bush's hometown"

What Moore means: "I have complete and utter disrespect for the will and desire of the town, and the rights of the township theatres to not show this film. I will therefore bring this film into a potentially volatile situation and screen it at a community center, knowing that there will be very vehement protests to it. I also believe in my freedom to show no respect for the fact that this town consists of mostly elderly people who have no love for violence or conflict. I will bring it there anyway because I can.

What Moore Says:
"I want to thank Bush for starring in this film and having some of the funniest lines!"

What Moore means:
"I want to humiliate you personally because I don't like your opinion. The fact that I am an ultra-liberal propagandist who lied in calling this film a documentary, and only later retracted it to call it just entertainment does not sit well with the fact that we have differing views. I was very upset that my first film went over budget because I am a retard and attempted to film it in England and Canada, only to find out the gun laws there were not only LESS strict, but they also had less gun crime. I am also too stupid to realize that other factors, such as poverty, population per square foot, etc.. also have a role to play in violent crime (under which London far exceeds any major (2M population+) city in the United States. Furthermore, I also realize that Bush bashing is very hip right now with the liberal crowd, and I know that there are many more extremist liberals than extremist conservatives, and that the liberal core displays far more zeal than does the conservative side.

What Moore said
"Sept 11 was preventable based on all the facts, and the way it was handled was terrible"

What the REALITY IS:
Nobody has access to all of the classified materials involved, and nobody understands the implications of acting upon every threat warning and piece of information. During the Cuban Missile Crisis, no less than 17 times did President Kennedy receive an "IMMINENT" warning of nuclear launch into Turkey if the boats were stopped. Had the president acted on every single threat presented that had even an ounce of credibility, this nation would grind to a halt. People who choose only to hate (which is odd coming from liberals, although they seem to endorse hatred the most), fail to see the reality of the matter. Did a threat come through stating attacks? Sure. So did 700 others. Do we act on all of them? Not unless every person in the country decides to work for the government giving them enough manpower to do so.

I am sure Michael Moore would suggest we pull all troops out of the Middle East, give all terrorists a big hug and kiss, and them ask them nicely to be nice to us and give up their guns. But that's why he's Michael Moore. Those who went to watch his movie for entertainment, I have no issue. Those who actually tried to draw fact and conclusion from it, well, I can only say you're stupid, and I thank god that you aren't in charge of anything important.

[Wezas]

What Tamral Says:
All that crap you just read

What Tamral Means:
I'm terrified that Kerry is going to win.

[Hulkein]

If Kerry wins I'd like to hope Democrats won't actually attribute it to anything Michael Moore has done.

[Wezas]

You know that's exactly where the Republicans will be pointing their finger afterwards. "He used scare tactics!"

[DeV]

Originally posted by Hulkein
If Kerry wins I'd like to hope Democrats won't actually attribute it to anything Michael Moore has done. Why would they. Moore seems to be hated pretty equally. At least anyone with a brain would not take this man's word as the Bible.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by GSTamral


What Moore means: "I have complete and utter disrespect for the will and desire of the town, and the rights of the township theatres to not show this film. I will therefore bring this film into a potentially volatile situation and screen it at a community center, knowing that there will be very vehement protests to it. I also believe in my freedom to show no respect for the fact that this town consists of mostly elderly people who have no love for violence or conflict. I will bring it there anyway because I can.

He isnt bringing conflict and violence. He is bringing a dissenting voice. Ask any of those people in that town who are moaning about Moore's film whether they support freedom of speech, or freedom of speech as long as it isnt around them.

If there is violence and conflict, those responsible are those that engage in it. No-one else.

[peam]

Oh the horror!

And two days ago, Teresa Heinz Kerry told a reporter to "Shove it!"

WHAT KIND OF MONSTERS ARE WE BREEDING?!?!

[Hulkein]

I'd say what Moore did here goes over dissent into the disrespect category.

He makes it his MO to disrespect any groups/people who *GASP* don't share the same opinion as him. It's really no surprise.

[Artha]

And two days ago, Teresa Heinz Kerry told a reporter to "Shove it!"

It's funny, because that was right after she encouraged more civility in politics. I wonder what she did with her "asses of evil" button.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Hulkein
I'd say what Moore did here goes over dissent into the disrespect category.


That's bullshit. He's not forcing anyone to go see it. Some theater owners decided for everyone that they shouldn't see the movie. Whoever it was who gave Moore permission to show it wherever it's now being shown obviously disagreed and is letting people decide for themselves whether to go watch it or not.


Originally posted by peam
WHAT KIND OF MONSTERS ARE WE BREEDING?!?!

The kind who tell someone to 'go fuck yourself'?

Raven

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas
You know that's exactly where the Republicans will be pointing their finger afterwards. "He used scare tactics!"

Well.. we could go around the country for the next four years and cry, "But we got the popular vote! It's not fair!! I hate Florida! It was FIXED! I want my MAMA!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Wezas
You know that's exactly where the Republicans will be pointing their finger afterwards. "He used scare tactics!"

Well.. we could go around the country for the next four years and cry, "But we got the popular vote! It's not fair!! I hate Florida! It was FIXED! I want my MAMA!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

Man I hope it comes down to a situation like Florida again. It would be amusing to see the flip-side of what happened and how quickly legislation is put in for polling reform.

[Carl Spackler]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold

Originally posted by Hulkein
If Kerry wins I'd like to hope Democrats won't actually attribute it to anything Michael Moore has done. Why would they. Moore seems to be hated pretty equally. At least anyone with a brain would not take this man's word as the Bible.

The problem with that is that most young people do. It has to do with the Liberal professors who teach at our colleges, and most young voters can't distinguish between being liberal and being the ultra liberal, propagandist that Moore is.

To sum it up, he is a fat fuck and I am embarassed that he wears and Michigan State hat.

[Back]

George Bush is the only one responsible for his not getting re-elected.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Backlash
George Bush is the only one responsible for his not getting re-elected.

Yup. Ultimately, he's the only one to blame. There's always been spin doctors like Moore, this coming election isn't any different.

[Hulkein]

I agree, too bad it seems some people may be giving Moore a little to much credit, especially if Kerry wins.

[Tsa`ah]

Change what "Moore means" to what "Tamral reads" and you have some credibility.

It's already been pointed out that Moore is not responsible for any violence that occurs any more than you are the next time some lib nut job gets beat down.

Disrespect? You think what Moore is doing falls under disrespect?

Do you live in the town? Do you know the people? Do you not think there are some residents that want to see it? Do you not feel it disrespectful that theatre owners in that town have opted to not show it?

I give theatres my money to watch movies, I don't give theatres my money to make personal and political choices for me. If blood, gore, gratuitous nudity/sex, and explosions are good enough for the screen, then I should say a film like Moore's is good enough. This is beside the point however.

You put words into Moore's mouth and head and expect credibility?

Interestingly enough you people still claim Moore is lying and that he is utilizing propaganda, yet other than a political add(removed from the dvd) and an iffy part of the Hesston interview, you have not provided any proof of lies or propaganda.

Where are they?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas
Man I hope it comes down to a situation like Florida again. It would be amusing to see the flip-side of what happened and how quickly legislation is put in for polling reform.

You make it sound like Florida did something so differently than any other state. The only reason it was an issue in Florida was because the vote was so close.

The same exact thing happened in every state that used the punch type ballot. There was plenty of reform due to the 2000 election in Florida.

So much for your spin there Wezas... maybe you can get a job with Gore to supply him with more towels.

[GSTamral]

You know Tsa'ah, I'm not arguing that Moore is doing anything illegal. As to the desires of the people to watch the movie, sure, I am sure there are, and they can do so without making it a MAJOR PRESS EVENT!. They can buy the dvd.

You would say much the same of me should I walk into a heavily gay supportive neighborhood and start screening movies of people killing gays for being gay. They are just movies right?

There is a fine line between displaying your opinion proudly, and imposing your opinions and dissent upon others who have no desire for it. Why don't you try exercising your free speech and show movies about the pork industry and the benefits of eating pork in a Jewish community? I mean, you have the freedom to do it. There is no LAW against it. But you want to try and tell me now that doing that would not cause a great deal of unrest which could result in violence? Please. and Whatever.

And until Moore has his hands on every piece of classified file used in making the decisions, I'd say he's ill equipped to determine whether or not inappropriate action was taken.

You want facts? How about this. Mr Gore accepted money from a Chinese general who was one of the many who ordered the slaughter of peaceful students during the massacre in Tienneman's Square. He shook this mans hand and took his money. He gave this money back after it was found out what he did.

Half truths are not facts. They are half truths.

[Edited on 7-27-2004 by GSTamral]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Hulkein
I was speaking about his insulting remarks about Bush throughout the past few months. That is disrespect, not just dissent.

[Edited on 7-27-2004 by Hulkein] The president insults our intelligence on a regular basis. I wouldn't consider it disrespect, I call it politics. Seriously, is there such a thing when it comes to politics.

[Hulkein]

Sorry, I deleted that post DEV, was going to elaborate.

Moore is more then a dissenter because of the way he goes about things. It's disrespectful to portray Heston the way he did, and it's disrespectful to say the things he does about the president and others in the political limelight without facts. He connects dots that can't be connected and people believe him.

[Edited on 7-27-2004 by Hulkein]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
yet other than a political add(removed from the dvd)I heard it was removed from the VHS, YOU BIG LIAR HEAD!!!!!!!1

(this post was made partly [namely, the part all in caps] in jest)

[StrayRogue]

So you're saying you think its wrong for Moore to "lie" to the public? Surely then it was wrong for Bush/Blair to say that we are going to war because we have factual evidence that Iraq has MODs? Which was a lie. Freedom of speech Moore has, atleast when he talks he doesn't send thousands of people to their deaths. Unlike some.

[Latrinsorm]

Oh, before we go through this again, can we define what a lie is? My money's still on intentionally misleading or speaking falsely.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
So you're saying you think its wrong for Moore to "lie" to the public? Surely then it was wrong for Bush/Blair to say that we are going to war because we have factual evidence that Iraq has MODs? Which was a lie. Freedom of speech Moore has, atleast when he talks he doesn't send thousands of people to their deaths. Unlike some.

Moore is an ultra-liberal. Like Kerry, they are anti-war, peace loving individuals. If I really thought the rest of the world was like this.. I would vote for John Kerry in a heartbeat. The problem is that you cannot hug the terrorists into leaving us alone. You can't talk to them. You can't sit them down at the table and be diplomatic with them.

I think that George Bush was acting in the best interest of the United States when he sent our men and women into Afganistan and Iraq. To say that he lied about WMDs in Iraq is not only foolish.. it's untrue. The entire WORLD (well.. except one poster here that currently holds the Dumb Shit award) thought he had WMDs.. so don't simply blame Bush for faulty intelligence.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold

Originally posted by Hulkein
I was speaking about his insulting remarks about Bush throughout the past few months. That is disrespect, not just dissent.

[Edited on 7-27-2004 by Hulkein] The president insults our intelligence on a regular basis. I wouldn't consider it disrespect, I call it politics. Seriously, is there such a thing when it comes to politics.

When did George W. Bush insult your intelligence? Please show me because I must have missed it.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Moore is an ultra-liberal. Like Kerry, they are anti-war, peace loving individuals. If I really thought the rest of the world was like this.. I would vote for John Kerry in a heartbeat. The problem is that you cannot hug the terrorists into leaving us alone. You can't talk to them. You can't sit them down at the table and be diplomatic with them.

No, the problem is that you (general you) keep trying to equate Iraq with the war on terrorism. Was Kerry against Afghanistan? Were the majority of Democrats against it? That was completely and totally justified and you'll see almost /no one/ saying otherwise, even the majority of your so-called liberal, peace loving individuals.

There is a HUGE difference between being against the war in Iraq and being against the war on terrorism. Republicans like to pretend there isn't in order to scare Americans into voting for Bush.

Raven

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by DarkelfVold

Originally posted by Hulkein
I was speaking about his insulting remarks about Bush throughout the past few months. That is disrespect, not just dissent.

[Edited on 7-27-2004 by Hulkein] The president insults our intelligence on a regular basis. I wouldn't consider it disrespect, I call it politics. Seriously, is there such a thing when it comes to politics.

When did George W. Bush insult your intelligence? Please show me because I must have missed it. He insults our intelligence by 'thinking' and then acting on it.

[GSTamral]

Parkbandit, to clarify, Kerry is very liberal, but not an ultra-liberal. He is nowhere near the order of Moore.

[StrayRogue]

I'm not blaming Bush for faulty intelligence. I'm blaming him for lying about having "facts" when he clearly did not.

[Carl Spackler]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm not blaming Bush for faulty intelligence. I'm blaming him for lying about having "facts" when he clearly did not.

Bush did have facts, he had facts from Three different countries who all said Iraq had WMD's, Clinton had those same facts as well.... The intellegence was faulty... you can't blame bush for that, he isn't the one gathering it.

[GSTamral]

While we're at it, why not bash Clinton for not having Osama brought into custody when given the chance?

Also, how about let's bash Truman for authorizing and ordering a nuclear weapon to be used against partially civilian targets because of intelligence provided by McArthur?

And since we're on the topic, we should also bash Kennedy for invading Vietnam based on horrendous intelligence regarding the spread of Russian influenced communism?

Bad intelligence happens. Bush wasn't the one gathering it. Blaming someone for acting on bad data in a way that may have been acceptable had the data been accurate is utterly hypocritical.

Don't mistake this to mean I approve in any way of what happened. But the WMD argument is at best a shitty argument. The intelligence was wrong. Let's not forget many of those field officers were hired by people who were under the command of the people under the command of the people under the command of people appointed by Clinton. Blame Clinton!

[Back]

Originally posted by GSTamral
While we're at it, why not bash Clinton for not having Osama brought into custody when given the chance?

Also, how about let's bash Truman for authorizing and ordering a nuclear weapon to be used against partially civilian targets because of intelligence provided by McArthur?

And since we're on the topic, we should also bash Kennedy for invading Vietnam based on horrendous intelligence regarding the spread of Russian influenced communism?

Bad intelligence happens. Bush wasn't the one gathering it. Blaming someone for acting on bad data in a way that may have been acceptable had the data been accurate is utterly hypocritical.

Don't mistake this to mean I approve in any way of what happened. But the WMD argument is at best a shitty argument. The intelligence was wrong. Let's not forget many of those field officers were hired by people who were under the command of the people under the command of the people under the command of people appointed by Clinton. Blame Clinton!

Lets not forget either that Herbert Walker was director of the CIA before Regan.

Your hired-under-Clinton comment dosen't wash either because both recent reports on the war and 9-11 don't implicate either president. So I'll take it for what it is. Bait for an argument.

Kennedy fought communisim. Not that I think communism is inherantly bad, just some people have corrupted it like people tend to do with just about everything.

Bad intelligence = Bad war, agreed. I'm going to bring up Sun Tzu again, Art of War, last chapter. Wolfowitz tried to add an addendum, but it didn't quite work out. Premtive war still has a few kinks to work out.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Carl Spackler
Bush did have facts, he had facts from Three different countries who all said Iraq had WMD's, Clinton had those same facts as well.... The intellegence was faulty... you can't blame bush for that, he isn't the one gathering it.

I'll quote the CIA analyst that was quoted regarding his report on Iraq:


"What's the point? The powers to be have already made up their mind that we're going to go to war. So ahead and send it if you want, but it's not going to make much difference."

Perhaps if Bush wasn't looking for an excuse to invade Iraq, he might actually have looked at all the evidence thatran directly counter to what the "intelligence" stated. The intelligence, mind you, formed by an agency who knew what the White House wanted to hear.

Did Bush order anyone to lie? Probably not. But the whole Henry II routine is just bullshit: "Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?"

Raven

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by GSTamral
You know Tsa'ah, I'm not arguing that Moore is doing anything illegal. As to the desires of the people to watch the movie, sure, I am sure there are, and they can do so without making it a MAJOR PRESS EVENT!. They can buy the dvd.

Wait and buy the DVD? Perhaps they want to see it before the elections? Perhaps Moore wants people to see this film prior to the election as well? Moore, if you see it or not, is making a point.


You would say much the same of me should I walk into a heavily gay supportive neighborhood and start screening movies of people killing gays for being gay. They are just movies right?

These are two very different things on two different ends of the spectrum. You are assuming that everyone in Texas and in this small town has a hard on for Bush. I would say you are far from correct. Walking into a gay community as espousing anti-gay views and promoting violence against homosexuals is morally corrupt. Moore showing a movie that raises questions about the current administration is not something that is going to cause riots, although I think it should.

You comparing hate against a group to a dissident voice is like saying the tour de France akin to a dog fight.


There is a fine line between displaying your opinion proudly, and imposing your opinions and dissent upon others who have no desire for it.

Here again you assume that this community is in complete agreement that they don't want this movie shown inside it's village lines. I'm sorry, but I don't buy that at all.


Why don't you try exercising your free speech and show movies about the pork industry and the benefits of eating pork in a Jewish community? I mean, you have the freedom to do it. There is no LAW against it. But you want to try and tell me now that doing that would not cause a great deal of unrest which could result in violence? Please. and Whatever.

You assume I eat pork and think other Jews should as well? Why would I do this, I have no belief in this at all. I, a Jew, do indulge in pork if served to me as a guest to another home. On rare occasion I'll eat pepperoni or sausage on a pizza, but this is me. I do advocate a number of different, and very unpopular, thoughts on the laws held within Leviticus whenever I'm speaking with a group of Jews. What is your point? Do you honestly believe Jews would fight other Jews and riot because of opposing beliefs? Oye .... Heated arguments sure. You should watch Chasides and Noahides go at it.


And until Moore has his hands on every piece of classified file used in making the decisions, I'd say he's ill equipped to determine whether or not inappropriate action was taken.

He's demanding proof to back the action taken and he's raising eyebrows with the Saudi connections.


You want facts? How about this. Mr Gore accepted money from a Chinese general who was one of the many who ordered the slaughter of peaceful students during the massacre in Tienneman's Square. He shook this mans hand and took his money. He gave this money back after it was found out what he did.

Half truths are not facts. They are half truths.

How ... political of you. I don't give a rat's ass about Gore. I did not vote for him, I did not vote for Bush, I did not vote for Clinton, I did not vote for Dole. I voted Perot and have voted Libertarian every election since.

Half truths? I asked, and have asked several times, to point out the lies and propaganda, and you side step and point to something a fucknut did. I don't give a crap about what Gore did, I don't trust him. Gore is not our president, Bush is. I want you to prove that Moore is lying, I want these half truths and propaganda pointed out.

Again, We have a campaign add that was edited and apologized for, and we have a bit of a stretch on time frame in the Hesston interview.

List the lies, list the half truths and list the propaganda. Back it up or shut up.

[Edited on 7-28-2004 by Tsa`ah]

[Hulkein]

I read this earlier today Tsa`ah, I don't know what you'll have to say about it, but I found it pretty well written and somewhat informative. I believe it addresses the 'list the half truths and list the propaganda' statement you raised.

<EDINE>
http://www.larryelder.com/911/debunking911.html
</EDINE>

[Edited on 7-28-2004 by Hulkein]