Politics

[Drew2]

Seeing as how election time is coming up in a few months and everyone is all OMG U HAVE TO VOTE!!!1 IF U DON'T UR SUX AND U WILL BE TEH PWND!!!11 i figure it would be good to get enough information so that I feel comfortable voting.

Now, my Mexican side of my family is all OMG KERRY<33333 and my mother is all OMG BUSH <3333 and I've never really taken the time to see exactly where these parties stand, or even what issues are being tossed around this election.

I know of the gay marriage thing, the war, aaannd... that's about it, I think. I hear a lot of "Bush is taking this money from here and that's BAD" but I mean there has to be a reason for it, right? Where is the money going?

I know there are a LOT of people more informed than I and I'm just starting this whole voting thing so I'd appreciate it if someone could give me a sort of Cliff Notes on the partys' platforms and stuff. Please keep it as 'middle' as you can. I don't want any right/left wing extremists trying to turn this thread into a OMG VOTE 4 BUSH/KERRY!!!!!!!!!!11


Also I'm sure a few of the other young voters here could stand to be more informed.

[Edited on 7-27-2004 by Tayre]

[Trinitis]

do what I do. Vote other every time, and put your name in the other slot. Maybe one day..you'll get lucky :P

[Back]

Holy shit Tayre is taking something seriously. When you really think about it, yeah, voting is pretty important. And bravo for wanting to have a well-informed non-biased view of the options.

My technique is just cruise major news outlet's websites and read read read. Google news is like having access to the entire world's news publications in real time.

Its really hard not to run into extremism at this point, unfortunately. Careful sifting of the news required.

CliffNotes Election 2004

The son of a Texas oil man, who got us into a war with the wrong people, spent the federal surplus and sent us back into trillions of dollars of debt, wants you to vote for him because voting for him will keep you safe from the boogeyman.

A Massachusetts playboy wants you to vote for him because he will make everything you can think of right.

[Wezas]

Kerry/Democrats
Bigger Government
Pro-Choice
Pro-Gay (Marriage)
Pro-Affirmitive Action
Seperation of Church & State


Bush/Republicans
Bigger Military
Pro-Life
Anti-Gay (Marriage)
Anti-Affirmative Action
Gov't to work with "faith based" communities

I'm going on the basis that the parties involved will have similiar beliefs of their party, which seems to be how they are.

Let me know of any additions or incorrect statements.

[Edited on 7-27-2004 by Wezas]

[Drew2]

Haha F bush hard in the ass if that's an accurate synopsis of his platform.

[Artha]

Anti-Gay

That's the religious right. Those of us who aren't stupid aren't anti-gay. Maybe anti-gay marriage, but not anti-gay.

Democrats also want to raise taxes, and/or repeal Bush tax cuts. They're both basically the same on the war, except Kerry's goal would be stability, while Bush's is democracy. Democrats are generally Pro-Palestinian, while republicans are generally pro-Israel. Democrats want stricter gun control, while republicans either want no change or less strict rules. Democrats are generally also pro-choice, republicans generally aren't.

edited because I thought of something else.

[Edited on 7-27-2004 by Artha]

[Drew2]

rofl and he's only 16 and he's the pwnpwn on politics.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Artha

Anti-Gay

That's the religious right. Those of us who aren't stupid aren't anti-gay. Maybe anti-gay marriage, but not anti-gay.

I realized my mistake, it has been corrected.



Democrats also want to raise taxes, and/or repeal Bush tax cuts.


That there is a bit bias, unless you want to add exactly what the democrats would have done with the money. Here's a snippet from Clinton's speech last night.



(Clinton saying that he received a tax cut because after leaving office, he became part of the wealthiest 1%)

"They chose to protect my tax cut at all costs while withholding promised funding to the Leave No Child Behind Act, leaving 2.1 million children behind."

"They chose to protect my tax cut, while cutting 140,000 unemployed workers out of their job training programs, 100,000 working families out of their child care assistance, and worst of all, while cutting 300,000 poor children out of their after-school programs when we know it keeps them off the streets, out of trouble, in school, learning, going to college and having a good life."

"They chose - they chose to protect my tax cuts while dramatically raising the out-of-pocket costs of health care to our veterans and while weakening or reversing very important environmental measures that Al Gore and I put into place, everything from clean air to the protection of our forests."

I haven't confirmed the numbers that he stated, but if even 1/3 of that is true, it might help people realize why the Democrats think a tax break might not be the best idea.

[Drew2]

Ok to change this a bit...

Someone give me a reason to vote Republican. I'm seeing none.

[Wezas]

Because Kerry might not have earned all 3 of his purple hearts?

(yeah, I can't think of a reason either, Tayre)

[Artha]

Someone give me a reason to vote Republican. I'm seeing none.

Because they actually stand for something. Kerry, as of now, does not.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Artha

Someone give me a reason to vote Republican. I'm seeing none.

Because they actually stand for something. Kerry, as of now, does not.

So when the debates come around and the republicans can no longer stand on that leg, what will be their reasoning then to vote Republican?

[Artha]

Republicans stand for one set of things. Smaller government, bigger military, less taxes, etc. Democrats stand for another set of things. Larger government, smaller military, more taxes that go into social programs/foreign aid. Which ever you agree with, votex0r.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Wezas
Because Kerry might not have earned all 3 of his purple hearts?

(yeah, I can't think of a reason either, Tayre)

Does he have those purple hearts or not? I can't remember if he threw them over the fence or not....... He said he did, then he didn't, then he did, then he didn't......

Kerry switches sides more then Anne Hesche. Pick a damn side and stick to it.... Maybe then he could earn my vote if I truly knew what side he was on. I don't need much of a reason not to vote for Bush, but Kerry certainly doesn't have one at least to me.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Artha
Republicans stand for one set of things. Smaller government, bigger military, less taxes, etc. Democrats stand for another set of things. Larger government, smaller military, more taxes that go into social programs/foreign aid. Which ever you agree with, votex0r.

Lets not forget the Pro-Choice/Pro-Life and also gay marriage.

I think those two issues will definately help some people decide.

[longshot]

Originally posted by Artha
Democrats are generally Pro-Palestinian, while republicans are generally pro-Israel.


I disagree a bit with this.

Republicans favor the Israeli hard liners. Sharon, Nettanyahu (Who makes Sharon look like the Dhali Lama).

The democrats favor more "dovish" leaders who are less likey to smash at the neighboring hornets nest.

Clinton basically appointed Ehud Barak. James Carville, democratic campaign strategist guru, ran his entire campaign.


Here is a related article about how the far right helps to dictate foreign policy in Israel.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0420/perlstein.php

The article is from the Village Voice, which is notoriously left wing. It is also one of the great independent papers in America. Just take it for what it is though... a lot of it is centered on gay/minority issues in NYC, but there are some really great articles.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Backlash
The son of a Texas oil man, who got us into a war with the wrong people, spent the federal surplus and sent us back into trillions of dollars of debt, wants you to vote for him because voting for him will keep you safe from the boogeyman.

A Massachusetts playboy wants you to vote for him because he will make everything you can think of right.

hhahahahahah. Jesus you are really such a hippy you blind yourself to reality.

[Drew2]

Way to not contribute to the conversation in any way. Counter his view, don't bash it, dumbass.

[Hulkein]

Tayre, I'm pretty sure what he said was a joke. No one in their right mind believes Kerry (or any politician) can fix EVERYTHING. I was laughing at his joke... get it?

Oh, and just so you know Tayre, Kerry isn't in favor of gay marriage either. I don't know why Wezas said that.

[Drew2]

Holy shit you have to be one of the dumbest people alive.

He wasn't saying that literally, you retard. He was saying that Kerry CLAIMS he will make everything right. It was humor but the way you reacted to it makes you look like a jackass.


And I'm not even sure I'm for gay marriage, so that's not really an issue for me.

[Hulkein]

I'm the dumbest person alive because I realized what he said was a joke and countered with a hippy joke?

....ok.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Tayre
And I'm not even sure I'm for gay marriage, so that's not really an issue for me.

Well how about you share what's important to you in the election. That may help everyone give you views from Bush/Kerry on the issues that matter to you.

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Hulkein
hhahahahahah. Jesus you are really such a hippy you blind yourself to reality.[/b]

Yeah. Very fucking funny joke.

Just stop talking please.



Anyway, it's kind of hard for me to nail down specific issues when I have such a weak grasp on current events. Until lately, I've always just brushed off the news as "that show before Smallville on Wednesday night" and didn't really give a flip about what happened outside of my neighborhood.

I'm trying to get into this stuff because I do realize it is kinda important... and stuff.

[Edited on 7-27-2004 by Tayre]

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
Well how about you share what's important to you in the election. That may help everyone give you views from Bush/Kerry on the issues that matter to you.

Now that's a good idea.

[Drew2]

Ok, how about this.

The way each of them wants to deal with the nation's budget was touched on... could you elaborate?

I mean... where is Bush moving all this money to/from and where does Kerry say it should go?

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Tayre

Originally posted by Hulkein
hhahahahahah. Jesus you are really such a hippy you blind yourself to reality.[/b]

Yeah. Very fucking funny joke.

Just stop talking please.

I'm sorry you didn't find it funny Tayre... It's been my longtime goal to please you at all times too, damnit.

You're the one who actually thought that what he said was a legitimate 'view', otherwise you wouldn't have told me to stop bashing it. Retard.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Tayre
Ok, how about this.

The way each of them wants to deal with the nation's budget was touched on... could you elaborate?

I mean... where is Bush moving all this money to/from and where does Kerry say it should go?

There are two reasons why the deficit is larger now with Bush. One being the war, and two being tax cuts he gave us to spur the economy. The tax cuts worked and we've seen a lot of economic growth in the past year or so.

Kerry would repeal the tax cuts and put that money towards balancing the budget.

I'm sure Tamral can go a lot more in depth if you really want, he knows his stuff when it comes to the economy etc.

[Edited on 7-27-2004 by Hulkein]

I just was informed I am now an official statesman of the Independent Party. This means that I will probably be persuaded not to vote Bush. My political wealth of knowledge is BLEH, BLEH DAMNIT. Anyone coax me into why I should vote non-Bush this upcoming election?

[Drew2]

He gave a couple short sentences on what each party wants you to believe they stand for. That's all he did. His statement wasn't meant to make me lean one way or the other.

Just fill in the rest of this post with me calling you all kinds of names and pointing out the massive amount of stupidity that has accumulated between your ears. I don't feel like wasting the energy to give you a specialized pwning.




On that note, are either candidates for or against inventing drugs to make people not stupid?

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Tayre
On that note, are either candidates for or against inventing drugs to make people not stupid?

No, but Kerry is for initiating programs to give confused Mexican males social aid for sucking dick by the poolside. :thumbsup:

Looks like that tops your agenda, eh?

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tayre
Ok, how about this.

The way each of them wants to deal with the nation's budget was touched on... could you elaborate?

I mean... where is Bush moving all this money to/from and where does Kerry say it should go?

That's tough to answer without creating a political flamewar.

I think it's safe to say that Bush wants to keep the tax cuts which gives money back to the people.

Kerry wants to bring the taxes back to where they were before Bush started cutting taxes so that the money can be used to further support Education, Healthcare, Social Security, and getting rid of the deficit.

Here is a snippet of my daily propaganda sent to me by my fellow activists:

The United States faces an enemy unlike any it has faces before. Osama bin Laden and his followers, with their 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon that killed thousands, demonstrated a capacity to wreak havoc in a major city and destroy or damage key symbols of America's economic and military might. In the aftermath of 9/11 the U.S. launched a preemptive attack on Iraq even though no link between Saddam Hussein and the events of 9/11 had been demonstrated and he, unlike bin Laden, posed no imminent threat to the U.S. Both major parties supported the attack and the continued conduct of this war. They, and their presidential candidates, still do. However, millions of Americans, indeed, what is now a majority of the people in this country, no longer support it.

blah blah blah...
blah...

ENTER RALPH NADER, a genuine American hero, who declared his second succesive run for the presidency not, as before, as a candidate of the minor party, but as the independent candidate of all those Americans who believe that the two parties have so aligned themselves that there was no candidate opposed to the war and the policies that led to it. NADER IS WILLING TO SPEAK THE TRUTH about the extent to which the major parties collude to overdetermine our political agenda consistent with the needs of special interests (from the trade unions to the multinational corporations) to an extent that serious policy dialogue much less genuine reform, has become.... impossible.


WELL FOLKS, IT LOOKS LIKE MY SUPERIORS ARE GOING TO MAKE ME A NADER FANBOY THIS UPCOMING ELECTEROO'

[Wezas]

Groups allied with President Bush are encouraging their conservative members to do the seemingly unthinkable: attend a convention Saturday to help put left-leaning independent candidate Ralph Nader on the Oregon presidential ballot.

The groups -- with the encouragement of some Republican political operatives -- are telling their members that Nader would draw votes from Democrat Sen. John Kerry and boost Bush's chances of winning Oregon.


I'm sure this isn't Oregon exclusively.

Somehow, on the side of the Independent-Left, I sincerely doubt that their delegates are in secret or unbenounced cahoots with the right wing.

Then again, I could/am be completely wrong and this is just a matter of business as usual.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tayre
Someone give me a reason to vote Republican. I'm seeing none. Bush does what he thinks is right.

Kerry does what he thinks is popular.

Nader does mary J, and lots of it.

[Drew2]

Bush doesn't come off as very intelligent, so I'm not so sure what he thinks is right has any credibility.

At least Kerry is paying attention to what the people want, no? I mean, it is our country, isn't it?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tayre
Bush doesn't come off as very intelligent, so I'm not so sure what he thinks is right has any credibility.

At least Kerry is paying attention to what the people want, no? I mean, it is our country, isn't it?

The problem is.. Kerry thought the war was a good idea when the rest of the country thought it was.. and now that the war isn't as popular.. wants to retract his vote.

Kerry is probably one of the worst candidates to be nominated for President by the Democrats in some time... almost any other candidate would have this election in the bag by now.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tayre
Bush doesn't come off as very intelligent,No, no he doesn't.
so I'm not so sure what he thinks is right has any credibility.You're welcome to your (wrong) opinion. ;)
At least Kerry is paying attention to what the people want, no? I mean, it is our country, isn't it? You're the one with the Eye in the Sky, you tell us.

Paying attention to what people want is like being stubborn or being highly motivated. It isn't good or bad in and of itself. If what the people want is good for them, then it's good. If what the people want is bad for them, then it's bad. We don't need a genie in the white house. (OMG I JUST THOUGHT THAT UP AND IT SOUNDZ REALLY KEWL)

[Back]

For those of you who are following along... the cartoon in PB's post, not to mention his avatar, is true, honest-to-god, pure grade-A propoganda. Thank you for playing.

[Artha]

Aren't all political cartoons propaganda of one sort or another? Or that movie you totally <3, F9/11?

I totally want patronage-fed beurocracy income to the tune of $1k+ if I end up voting for whoever I'm told to.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Somehow, on the side of the Independent-Left, I sincerely doubt that their delegates are in secret or unbenounced cahoots with the right wing.

Then again, I could/am be completely wrong and this is just a matter of business as usual.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=216

Raven

Thanks for the read.

At least I'd like to think the Independence Party is being "taken more seriously," even by the means cloak and dagger tactics. It beats the early 90 FEC tyranny against Nader by Larry Noble, I'll tell ya that.

[Parkbandit]

What this country needs is a viable, moderate, 3rd party.

[Ravenstorm]

I'll drink to that.

Raven

[Skirmisher]

It amazes me that any of the various Bush puppeteers had the gall to attack someone who actually went to war for their country when he couldnt even tough out a stay in the National Guard stateside.

What is even more amazing and really quite sad is how many fell for the painfully obvious attempt to decoy attention from Bush's own simply painful charade of fullfilling his military duties.


Yes, please, lets talk about the man who actually was IN combat and earned every right to question whatever the heck he wants about the war and not look at the one who's daddy not only got him the cushy stateside gig, but couldnt even finish that.

[Ilvane]

I’m going to get into some of the specific things I think are different between Kerry and Bush.

1) Bush supports a ban on gay marriage, by an amendment to the constitution to ‘define marriage’. Kerry does not agree with gay marriage either, but believes it should be a states issue, as opposed to a federal issue. He is also a supporter of equal civil unions, while Bush believes in ‘traditional marriage’.
2) Bush went to war on false pretenses and then refuses to accept responsibility. I really don’t think that he will ever accept that the information he used was incorrect, or at least somewhat misleading. Kerry wants to rebuild the relationships we had with other countries, including those that didn’t want to go to Iraq, and take away some of the burden of troops, by having the UN help out.
3) The Republicans talk about fiscal responsibility, but meanwhile, under a Republican administration with a Republican House and Senate, spending has increased dramatically. He has the second largest deficit in history, and the spending continues. This isn’t fiscal responsibility, at least in most people’s eyes. Kerry’s ideas are along the lines of the Clinton years, which brought surplus to the national scene, and he was paying down the national debt. What Bush is hoping is that inflation won’t affect things, but with enough national debt, it’s going to start to creep in eventually.
4) The tax cuts that Bush gave benefit rich people more than anything. As far as middle class tax cuts, that’s not what he is doing. He’s more interested in giving the fat cats more money. It’s not trickling down, and trickle down economics has been proven not to work over and over again. Kerry wants to give tax cuts to the working and middle classes. This is really where it belongs, and where it makes sense. If you give money to the middle class, we are going to be very busy spending more, consumer wise.
5) Bush has lost millions of jobs during his administration. While new jobs have been created, they are not the same quality of the jobs that were lost. People are getting further in debt, and living paycheck to paycheck. Minimum wage in most places is not a living wage.
6) Bush ignores the healthcare issues in the country, and meanwhile healthcare premiums are getting bigger, the hospitals are taking more debt, because there are so many uninsured, and the malpractice insurance is out of control. Bush doesn’t fight against these guys, because he is given so much money by them!
7) Bush is pro-life. I have no problem with that inherently, but I don’t want him to make decisions on my body. Kerry believes life begins at conception, but he also believes in the right to choose. That is important. The women who went through the butchers when abortion was illegal, they were the poor women. My mother who worked in the ER in Boston at that time said the women who were rich still got them, meanwhile the poor were coming in and practically dying from these same procedures. It’s about bringing safety to the women who choose to do so.

I hope that gives you some ideas of what the differences are. :) I know a lot of people have mentioned some of the things I did, but I wanted to get into more detail.;)

-A

[Edited on 7-28-2004 by Ilvane]

[Wezas]

What pissed me off last night is that I was flipping between stations and I left it on Fox news (The supposedly *unbias* news station) and they hammered on Kerry's wife's speech. I can't find anything on their website about it this morning, but they were all going around the table commenting on how she didn't say enough about *this* or she said too much about *that*, and how it was an awful speech. Every single other station I turned too was commenting on how great the speech was and playing back certain parts of it.

Fox News really has to get rid of that "Fair and Balanced Coverage" crap. Two nights ago one of their reporters was saying/complaining how partisan this convention was. It's the fucking Democratic National Convention! You think the republican convention is going to be fair to both parties?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
It amazes me that any of the various Bush puppeteers had the gall to attack someone who actually went to war for their country when he couldnt even tough out a stay in the National Guard stateside.

What is even more amazing and really quite sad is how many fell for the painfully obvious attempt to decoy attention from Bush's own simply painful charade of fullfilling his military duties.


Yes, please, lets talk about the man who actually was IN combat and earned every right to question whatever the heck he wants about the war and not look at the one who's daddy not only got him the cushy stateside gig, but couldnt even finish that.

It amazes me that when Clinton was in office, you and the rest of the liberals were saying that armed service doesn't matter.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[DeV]

Kerry at least had the balls to go to war and fight. Bush didn't, neither did Clinton.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
Kerry at least had the balls to go to war and fight. Bush didn't, neither did Clinton.

Having the "balls" to go to war? Come on man.. did you enlist? Oh, then automatically.. you are a nutless wonder.

I had the opportunity to enlist.. and chose college instead. You think I made that decision because I was scared?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I’m going to get into some of the specific things I think are different between Kerry and Bush.

<< insert useless biased drivel>>

I would go point by point to show how you would be wrong, but it would be a waste of my time... much like reading your post was.

I'll never get back those wasted 3 minutes... :sniffle:

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I had the opportunity to enlist.. and chose college instead. You think I made that decision because I was scared?

<pussy>
That would be one of my reasons.
</pussy>

[Parkbandit]

Perhaps for you it was Wezas.. but for me.. the year was 1983. Not a war in sight. I was actually thinking about going ROTC and going into the Air Force, but I received a scholorship that I couldn't say no to.

It was purely an economical decision.. and not one made by fear.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Perhaps for you it was Wezas.. but for me.. the year was 1983. Not a war in sight. I was actually thinking about going ROTC and going into the Air Force, but I received a scholorship that I couldn't say no to.

It was purely an economical decision.. and not one made by fear.

Jesus you're fucking old.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
Kerry at least had the balls to go to war and fight. Bush didn't, neither did Clinton.

Having the "balls" to go to war? Come on man.. did you enlist? Oh, then automatically.. you are a nutless wonder.

I had the opportunity to enlist.. and chose college instead. You think I made that decision because I was scared? Yes, yes I do think you choose college because you were scared. :lol: And no, no I did not enlist. I was one month from 16 when I graduated from highschool so they kinda would'nt let me join at the time.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas
Jesus you're fucking old.

:(

I'm experienced.. not old :P

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Wezas
Jesus you're fucking old.

:(

I'm experienced.. not old :P

No, if you graduated HS in the 80's, you're just plain old.

[Ilvane]

You have your right to your opinion, PB.

Have a nice day.

-A

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Wezas
What pissed me off last night is that I was flipping between stations and I left it on Fox news (The supposedly *unbias* news station) and they hammered on Kerry's wife's speech. I can't find anything on their website about it this morning, but they were all going around the table commenting on how she didn't say enough about *this* or she said too much about *that*, and how it was an awful speech. Every single other station I turned too was commenting on how great the speech was and playing back certain parts of it.

Fox News really has to get rid of that "Fair and Balanced Coverage" crap. Two nights ago one of their reporters was saying/complaining how partisan this convention was. It's the fucking Democratic National Convention! You think the republican convention is going to be fair to both parties?

Actually if you kept watching it they turned it over to a few democratic members and they said 'who said it was bad? Republicans?' and then were talking about how it is a good speech.

It is fair and balanced, ie they let both sides get time.

[Parkbandit]

Fox News is balanced? You mean like ABC and NBC?

It's as balanced as the other networks are... from an opposite point of view.. but it's far from balanced.

[Hulkein]

Yeah, I concede that. I'm just saying Wezas turned it off before Fox gave the time to the other side of the political spectrum, which is their idea of fair and balanced.

[Disrupture]

Just waste your vote like me in November and vote Libertarian.

[Artha]

According to O'Reilly, Kerry told people not to 'Bush bash.' Cool move on his part.

[Ilvane]

Fox is not fair and balanced. It bashes everything not Republican. I turned it on and found Newt Gingrich on there.

The man who talks about family values, and traditional values..a man who left his wife while she was fighting cancer. Ah yes, family values..

-A

[Wezas]

So I decided not to watch Fox News for tonights convention. I watched CNN. I'm not sure which is worse.

First was Bob Dole in a talking round table. Every time he was given the opportunity to speak, he made a negative comment about Kerry & the Democrats. Even if the discussion was a totally unrelated topic.

Also, it looks like CNN has the O'Reilly method of news making. They watched Edwards speech - and then had people who had an obvious bias and did nothing but slam the speech.

So which channels are *supposedly* not Uber-Conservative?

[Latrinsorm]

Comedy Central I find to be just a touch to the right, although the studio audience is radibly Democrat.

[Delirium]

Just because they have a republican critiquing the speeches at the democrat convention doesnt make them have a conservative bias(CNN at least). I bet you will see the opposite at the republican convention. Some democrats saying what they think of the speech. Imagine if we all agreed here,no one would post and likewise if its just a bunch of democrats hooing and hawing over the democrat convention no one would watch.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Fox is not fair and balanced. It bashes everything not Republican. I turned it on and found Newt Gingrich on there.

The man who talks about family values, and traditional values..a man who left his wife while she was fighting cancer. Ah yes, family values..

-A

This coming from a Democrat... come now.. that is one glass house you don't want to live in.

[Kefka]

You'd have to be a far right neocon to call Fox News 'fair and balanced.' Moderates won't dispute that FNC's only agenda is the republican agenda. Hannity, Colmes (far right liberal. Yeah right), Coulter, O'Lielly, FOX (Bush) and friends.

Murdoch makes no secret about where he stands politically. His far right views are reflected through his staff, and they serve their GOP masters well. Any with an opposing view are fired on the spot. Ask Keith Olbermann. It's funny when people will go out of their way to defend FNC when their own staff will admit that they're slanted.

How much convention coverage have you seen on FNC? How much coverage have you heard on Teresa Heinz Kerry's 'shove it' remark? Unfortunately, the other networks aren't far behind. CNN, MSGOP... Hardball's the only show worth watching nowadays. If you want full convention coverage, watch C-Span.

[Back]

Originally posted by Wezas
So which channels are *supposedly* not Uber-Conservative?

PBS was running the convention Monday night. They don't get A-list people to talk, and show speeches in their entirety.



In the world of politics, Republicans act like 10 year olds. This is not an attack, as a Republican will think it is, but an observation. Republicans take any criticism or observation that may shed them in any negative light, however dim, as a personal attack that then gives them, in their minds, the right to come out swinging.

Republicans are the best at smear campaigns, spin, and mud slinging there is no doubt. Those tactics, however, show how pathetic and scared they can be. Everyone likes good spirited 'trash-talking' of the opponents, sure. But a Republican will be the one to take it to the personal level first. Its not sporting and shameful.

Republicans seem to want a divide in this counrty. They need things to be their way or the highway. If you aren't with them, you are against them.

This country is about people working together to get things done and I'll bet somehow some Republican somewhere will find a way to twist that statement against me, find something I said somewhere that contradicts that, or uncovers something in my past to discredit me.

Not all Republicans are like this, I know, but unfortunately the behaviour evidenced above has become acceptable in this day and age.

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Wezas
So I decided not to watch Fox News for tonights convention. I watched CNN. I'm not sure which is worse.

First was Bob Dole in a talking round table. Every time he was given the opportunity to speak, he made a negative comment about Kerry & the Democrats. Even if the discussion was a totally unrelated topic.

Also, it looks like CNN has the O'Reilly method of news making. They watched Edwards speech - and then had people who had an obvious bias and did nothing but slam the speech.

So which channels are *supposedly* not Uber-Conservative?

CNN?? Conservative??? My Grandparents are THE most Democratic people you will ever meet and their television is GLUED on CNN. My mother (the Republican) hates CNN because it's "too liberal".

You must be watching a different CNN.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Delirium
I bet you will see the opposite at the republican convention. Some democrats saying what they think of the speech.

The difference being the ratio of republicans vs. democrats that were interviewed about the speeches was like 10:1. My bet is at the republican convention, there will either be an equal number of democrats vs. republicans interviewed on the speech, or the majority will be republicans.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Backlash
Backlashes post

I disagree. Bush is personally attacked and demonized moreso then anyone else in politics. He isn't just criticized, as that is the right of any American, he is downright insulted to a point where anyone conservative just gets fed up.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
In the world of politics, Republicans act like 10 year olds. This is not an attack, as a Republican will think it is, but an observation.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

That has to be one of the funniest things I've read here.

[Edited on 7-29-2004 by Parkbandit]

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Backlash
[quote]Originally posted by Wezas

In the world of politics, Republicans act like 10 year olds. This is not an attack, as a Republican will think it is, but an observation.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

That has to be one of the funniest things I've read here.

Man, you must be a republican. You totally quoted me for something Backlash said.

[Parkbandit]

LMAO.. not sure how that happened... sorry Wezas. I'll edit it.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
LMAO.. not sure how that happened... sorry Wezas. I'll edit it.

Not that I disagree with what he said.

:lol:

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
(Posted a rather large juvenile pot-shot graphic without refuting anything.)

Thanks for proving my point.

[DeV]

I was thinking the same thing Backlash. :lol:

[Delirium]

In the world of politics, Republicans act like 10 year olds. This is not an attack, as a Republican will think it is, but an observation.

I think this is because you are a democrat. I see bad things in democrats that stink of truth to me that would seem as an attack to you. Plus i mean come on its politics. Go watch some Al Franken and then come back and tell me he isnt just as childish as those republicans.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Parkbandit
(Posted a rather large juvenile pot-shot graphic without refuting anything.)

Thanks for proving my point.

Sorry.. I keep forgetting that to some people I need to explain everything to. Here you go.

It's a widely held belief that the ones who act immature in politics are the Democrats.. as that 'juvenile pot-shot' picture clearly states. Go listen to Al Gore's speech just the other day how he cried through the entire session about his loss in 2000. I looked for a similar one on the Republicans.. but all I found were Democratic ones.

I didn't make the picture.. just do a quick google search for "crybaby" and that one comes right up. Must be a coincidence.. with no truth to it. :rolleyes:

[Back]

Originally posted by Delirium

In the world of politics, Republicans act like 10 year olds. This is not an attack, as a Republican will think it is, but an observation.

I think this is because you are a democrat. I see bad things in democrats that stink of truth to me that would seem as an attack to you. Plus i mean come on its politics. Go watch some Al Franken and then come back and tell me he isnt just as childish as those republicans.

I agree with you, Delirium, about there being wacko whiney Democrats... never said there weren't. What I should have specified was I meant Republicans in the RNC. The actual elected members of the Republican party.

As for my own political leaning, its whatever strikes me as the right way to go. Right now, its Democrat. Now I'll get accused of flip-flopping by who?

My view on this election is the Republicans had their shot, both the President and his Cabinet, and the Senate. They made some major mistakes. Mistakes that cost lives. Time for the Democrats to fix things.

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Parkbandit
(Posted a rather large juvenile pot-shot graphic without refuting anything.)

Thanks for proving my point.

Sorry.. I keep forgetting that to some people I need to explain everything to. Here you go.

It's a widely held belief that the ones who act immature in politics are the Democrats.. as that 'juvenile pot-shot' picture clearly states. Go listen to Al Gore's speech just the other day how he cried through the entire session about his loss in 2000. I looked for a similar one on the Republicans.. but all I found were Democratic ones.

I didn't make the picture.. just do a quick google search for "crybaby" and that one comes right up. Must be a coincidence.. with no truth to it. :rolleyes:

If Bush had lost the Electorial College vote, but won the popular vote, you can bet he'd do the same. And thats the whole point of the 2000 election, PB. Gore won the popular vote by close to half a million vote I think it was.

In the NFL we now have replay reviews. I guess crying counts for something when its really important.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
If Bush had lost the Electorial College vote, but won the popular vote, you can bet he'd do the same. And thats the whole point of the 2000 election, PB. Gore won the popular vote by close to half a million vote I think it was.

In the NFL we now have replay reviews. I guess crying counts for something when its really important.

Actually, I would bet that George wouldn't carry on as Gore has for the past 3 1/2 years.. sorry.

While I do not agree with the Electorial College process.. it is the reason Gore lost.. not Jeb Bush, George W Bush, The Supreme Court or the CIA...

[Back]

Interactive Political Map (http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/politics/2004_ELECTIONGUIDE_GRAPHIC/index.html)

From the NY Times. Really cool interactive map that shows all kinds of data per state and even has a section to let you choose the outcome of the election.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Backlash
My view on this election is the Republicans had their shot, both the President and his Cabinet, and the Senate. They made some major mistakes. Mistakes that cost lives. Time for the Democrats to fix things.

The only 'mistake' that cost lives was one in which Kerry and Edwards were both equally responsible for.

[Back]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by Backlash
My view on this election is the Republicans had their shot, both the President and his Cabinet, and the Senate. They made some major mistakes. Mistakes that cost lives. Time for the Democrats to fix things.

The only 'mistake' that cost lives was one in which Kerry and Edwards were both equally responsible for.

Funny, I thought no one was responsible.

Tenet didn't just decide on his own that he needed to fabricate information on WMDs/Robot spyplanes/nuclear weapons programs/links to Al Queda on his own just because he wanted to go to war. Perhaps you think some CIA lacky did?

I'm going to tell you who was. The President of the United States and his Cabinet. Thats who. They perpetuated the lie to get everyone on board.

[Artha]

Arguing with conspiracy theorists is so amusing.

[Parkbandit]

I love how you know this Backlash... even though this was not the outcome according to the 9-11 commission.

Hey.. while you ARE in the know and all.. can you tell us:

What really happens in Area 51?

Are there really secret tunnels under the White House?

Do we really have Bin Laden captured and will let the world know a week before the election?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Artha
Arguing with conspiracy theorists is so amusing.

Just mocking them is more fun :)

[Back]

Conspiracys do exist. They are very real. Ask some of your local law enforcement officials. There are many charges dealing with conspiracy.

Conspiracies are hidden plans. The administration did the conspiring with its "slam dunk" information no one had access to to lead us into uneccessary war.

Sure, none of us want to accept the reality of it, all those innocents and their families scarred forever... the possibility that our country could fuck up something so badly...

It must be tough for supporters of this administration to admit to a 'mistake'. (I love the dumbed down terminology here) Its harder still to find the cause of that mistake. It came from the top.

[Edited on 7-29-2004 by Backlash]

[Artha]

:yes:

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Artha
Arguing with conspiracy theorists is so amusing.

Yeah really, it's about as productive as washing your hands with piss.

It might actually constitute a healthy argument when you're stoned and with your other buddies who are also high, but other then that using conspiracy theories as the basis of arguments is weak.

[Artha]

OH BUT HULKEIN NOW U R ACTING LKIE 10 YTEAR ODL OMG/

[Hulkein]

ROFL, for anyone who continued to watch CNN while the music was playing (After Kerry's speech), the guy who calls when the balloons to fall was going nuts because they weren't coming down. He goes

'WHERE THE HELL ARE THE BALLOONS, DROP THE FUCKING BALLOONS', or something to that extent. ahhahahahahaha, nice job CNN. Open mic they didn't know about.

[Edited on 7-30-2004 by Hulkein]

[Back]

Heh. How funny is it they played U2's "It's a Beautiful Day" at the end of his speech? I thought it was awesome.

[Hulkein]

Yeah that was a good choice, I liked that too.

I watched the speech with an open mind and not that I think it was bad, but I don't know how he succeeded in getting swing voters riled up. It was a good speech if you're a Kerry follower but he didn't really come out and give independents a reason to vote for him. I mean he talked about his Senate work for like ten seconds and threw nothing new in general.

[Edited on 7-30-2004 by Hulkein]

[Back]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Yeah that was a good choice, I liked that too.

I watched the speech with an open mind and not that I think it was bad, but I don't know how he succeeded in getting swing voters riled up. It was a good speech if you're a Kerry follower but he didn't really come out and give independents a reason to vote for him. I mean he talked about his Senate work for like ten seconds and threw nothing new in general.

[Edited on 7-30-2004 by Hulkein]

The 'Band of Brothers' thing was a nice touch. Sure, it was scripted, but still...

Kerry answered the call, got his medals. What does Bush have? Missing records.

Kerry is smart. He's been playing his cards close. Tonight, he showed his hand. Aces.

[Hulkein]

Heh, ok, whatever you say. :cool:

[Ravenstorm]

I thought it was an excellent speech. I'd have liked a bit more of substance but that will come out during debates. It better come out during debates.

Raven

[Back]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Heh, ok, whatever you say. :cool:

What happened to that cool button you had, Hulk? Only curious because I thought it was hysterical enough to put up in my cube along with the Bush-Cheney button that declares freedom is war.

[Edited on 7-30-2004 by Backlash]

[Hulkein]

I got tired of it. I don't want to look like a political propagandist so I took it down. I like debating politics but I figured it can get annoying to someone else when I'm posting in a thread about sports to be reminded of politics.

[Prestius]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
I thought it was an excellent speech. I'd have liked a bit more of substance but that will come out during debates. It better come out during debates.

Raven

I thought the substance of what he had to say was right on the money. He articulated very well who he was and what the difference between the parties is.

I will say I was a little disappointed in the delivery. I thought he blew through the thing way too fast. He had several solid-gold sure-fire crowd-pleasing lines but he never paused long enough after he said them to get the full impact. I guess that matters a lot more if you're interested in style over substance <shrug>

As to the debates - heh - Raven .. I fear the presidential debates will be exceeedingly dull. Do you honestly think that Bush's handlers will let him speak freely and have to answer questions without a script? Not a chance. That debate will have so many restrictions, caveats and riders on it so-as to render it worthless.

The VP debate on the other hand, should be a real barnburner. I can't wait to see Cheney and Edwards go at it. That'll be some fun.

-P

[Artha]

I hope Edwards is all like "Go fuck yourself" and Cheney is all like "Assassinate him." And the moderator dude is like "Fatality!"

[Hulkein]

I hope during the debates Kerry comes out with substance and makes some sense of his all to often pussy-footing and downright flip-flopping too. At least that way if Bush does lose I can at least fathom how people can vote for someone who has yet to exhibit himself as a man of conviction. Sure his daughters can say a lot about his integrity, but what the hell has he done in the Senate for four terms? He had one thing that has his name on it in the Senate, and it was the work he did with McCain for Vietnam POWs. Four terms and that is all you can show for yourself to the country?

[Edited on 7-30-2004 by Hulkein]

[Back]

Originally posted by Artha
I hope Edwards is all like "Go fuck yourself" and Cheney is all like "Assassinate him." And the moderator dude is like "Fatality!"

But then they whip out the spirit of Lee and slice Cheney in the cancer and its over.

[Artha]

But then it would be revealed that he's actually a cyborg who runs on oil and a fuel made from babies, and he would eat Edward's face.

[Back]

Originally posted by Artha
But then it would be revealed that he's actually a cyborg who runs on oil and a fuel made from babies, and he would eat Edward's face.

Thats fine, as long as he started with the mole on his left upper-lip. Besides, no one would be suprised that Cheney runs on oil. All them Texans do.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Prestius
I thought the substance of what he had to say was right on the money. He articulated very well who he was and what the difference between the parties is.

By substance, I mean details. A few more details. Not just what but how. Though I wasn't expecting it as that wasn't a forum to get into that kind of detail.

His delivery was excellent I think: for him. He's obviously not an orator. Hell, Sharpton is better at talking than he is. I'm sure everyone gave a huge sigh of relief that he did as well at it as he did.

Raven

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
LMAO.. not sure how that happened... sorry Wezas. I'll edit it.

Promises, promises.

[Kefka]

Actually, Kerry did alot more than just make a great speech. He set the tone of the convention. I wondered about his call not to bash Bush, but thinking about it now, it seems brilliant. By not bashing Bush, he drew a line that he's daring those at the RNC to cross. If they bash Kerry, they lose those swing voters. Can the repubs make it through an entire convention without bashing Kerry?

[Hulkein]

Can the democs actually walk the walk? They say no bashing him, yet they still take shots at him and I'm sure the ultra left will continue to.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
I thought it was an excellent speech. I'd have liked a bit more of substance but that will come out during debates. It better come out during debates.

Raven

To me, he seemed to rush through the speech.. never giving the crowd time to applaud and cheer. He seemed very uncomfortable with it and tried to start his next line 3 or 4 times before the crowd quieted down.

And I just got a sense of him saying things the audience wanted him to say without a real plan to get there... as if he has some magical powers. I'm just wondering where these magical powers were for the past 20 years of him being a member of Congress.

One of my favorite parts of the speech though was when he was done berating George W... he called for a election process to be based on facts and not negative. Reminds me of so many idiots in Gemstone after they kill someone.. they use WARN INTERACTION. :rolleyes:

I think his speech was good.. just not the homerun he needed. We'll see how he fairs in the debates and if he will be able to come up with some details by then.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Artha
But then it would be revealed that he's actually a cyborg who runs on oil and a fuel made from babies, and he would eat Edward's face.

He may have a chance with Edward's face.. but the cyborg would fail if he tried to eat Kerry's face.. there's just too much to digest.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Kefka
Actually, Kerry did alot more than just make a great speech. He set the tone of the convention. I wondered about his call not to bash Bush, but thinking about it now, it seems brilliant. By not bashing Bush, he drew a line that he's daring those at the RNC to cross. If they bash Kerry, they lose those swing voters. Can the repubs make it through an entire convention without bashing Kerry?

You need to go listen to the speech again.. because I think you fell asleep for the first 30 minutes. And if you don't think there was any Bush bashing during this convention.. please vote for Kerry because he needs stupid people.

Thanks.

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Kefka
Actually, Kerry did alot more than just make a great speech. He set the tone of the convention. I wondered about his call not to bash Bush, but thinking about it now, it seems brilliant. By not bashing Bush, he drew a line that he's daring those at the RNC to cross. If they bash Kerry, they lose those swing voters. Can the repubs make it through an entire convention without bashing Kerry?

You need to go listen to the speech again.. because I think you fell asleep for the first 30 minutes. And if you don't think there was any Bush bashing during this convention.. please vote for Kerry because he needs stupid people.

Thanks.

Bush has bashed himself through a failed presidency. Kerry talked about the real America, with a future built on freedom, not fear. War when needed, not at a whim. Strong at home and respected in the world.

So lets talk tactics. Yeah, the Dems said no Bush bashing all convention, then Kerry really lays it on. They had his vet buddies introduce him which was brilliant. Finally, the generation who suffered the real frustrations of the Viet Nam era are in a position to do something about it.

I thought it was a home run. Solid. I said it earlier, Kerry is shrewd. He's played his cards close all this time and then pops out with the winning hands.

[Artha]

Yeah, saying "No Bush bashing" and then doing it is wonderful.

[Back]

Originally posted by Artha
Yeah, saying "No Bush bashing" and then doing it is wonderful.

Weepy bleeding heart conservative wuss. Suck it up. LOL

Seriously though, when you are campaigning for the job of president, to even suggest you are better than the guy in office could be considered bashing. Casual mention of Bush's missteps could be consider bashing. Or, unpatriotic, according to some people.

[Kefka]

Pointing out bad policies and mistakes in the administration is not Bush bashing. Guess what? They're running for president. They're suppose to point out what's wrong and how they're gonna make it better. They didn't call him a chimp or an idiot. They didn't resort to name calling. Kerry's campaign speaks on values and what he plans to do for America. Bush's campaign is all attack all the time.

[Artha]

Weepy bleeding heart conservative wuss. Suck it up. LOL

But it hurts me so deep inside! :cry:

[Edited on 7-30-2004 by Artha]

[Parkbandit]

LOL.. two bleeding heart liberals cannot agree whether he did or did not bash Bush.

Personally, I believe Backlash has it correct.. they claimed they wouldn't, but they did. I do believe it was toned down, but clearly it was there.

But, he didn't draw a line in the sand... the Republicans have a clear record of his weak stance on defense over the past 20 years.. and will certainly use it. And no "WARN INTERACTION" or "WARN HARASSMENT" from Kerry will prevent it.

Suck it up bitch...

[Parkbandit]

I can't wait to listen to Limbaugh today... should be entertaining to see his spin on things. I've already heard that conservatives are making fun of his opening "Hi, I'm John Kerry and I'm reporting for duty" line..

Personally, I thought it was pretty good.

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
LOL.. two bleeding heart liberals cannot agree whether he did or did not bash Bush.

Personally, I believe Backlash has it correct.. they claimed they wouldn't, but they did. I do believe it was toned down, but clearly it was there.

But, he didn't draw a line in the sand... the Republicans have a clear record of his weak stance on defense over the past 20 years.. and will certainly use it. And no "WARN INTERACTION" or "WARN HARASSMENT" from Kerry will prevent it.

Suck it up bitch...

No one doubts the Repubs will fight dirty with smear tactics trying to discredit Kerry. The Dems showed how to do it right. Like good sportsmen. The Repubs lost with http://www.kerrypicksedwards.com. Real classy.

Even though I said Kerry bashed Bush, I still think it was done by default and that if anyone is to blame for Bush looking bad, its Bush.

[Artha]

By that logic, if anyone's to blame for Kerry looking bad, it's Kerry.

[Parkbandit]

How DARE you use his faulty logic against him Artha! You heartless bitch!!

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Backlash
No one doubts the Repubs will fight dirty with smear tactics trying to discredit Kerry. The Dems showed how to do it right. Like good sportsmen. The Repubs lost with http://www.kerrypicksedwards.com. Real classy.


You know anyone can buy a domain name and forward it to any site they want, right?


Honestly Kerry could've squatted and pinched a steamy loaf on the podium and started soft tossing it to the delegates and people as ultra left wing as Kefka and Backlash would've applauded the symbolism.

It didn't matter how Kerry did, it was brilliant, say it enough times and maybe the swing voters who matter will believe it. Not.

[Edited on 7-30-2004 by Hulkein]

[Kefka]

<<Honestly Kerry could've squatted and pinched a steamy loaf on the podium and started soft tossing it to the delegates and people as ultra left wing as Kefka and Backlash would've applauded the symbolism. >>

No thanks. We'll keep those steamy loaves to the far right where they belong.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Backlash
Heh. How funny is it they played U2's "It's a Beautiful Day" at the end of his speech? I thought it was awesome. I saw Bono at the convention, too. I'm so conflicted. :(:(:(
Finally, the generation who suffered the real frustrations of the Viet Nam era are in a position to do something about it. Uh, WTF are you talking about? Does Kerry have a time machine or something?

[Back]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Uh, WTF are you talking about? Does Kerry have a time machine or something?

No one has made one that works... yet. The concept of time travel has gained somewhat more of an acceptance these days. Yeah, due to study of the atomic and quasar worlds, time theory has advanced...

But I don't think that is what you were wondering about. You are clearly confused by the Viet Nam statement. I'll spell out what I meant.

Kerry requested to be sent to Viet Nam. He served with hundreds of thousands of young men in America because he thought it was the right thing to do. After his service, he questioned why what he and many others had been through.

Now, he is of the age, and in the position, through a lifetime's worth of service, to steer this country in the direction our fore-fathers died to create.

Ok, that sounded like a Kerry speech. I'll leave it up for what it is.

I think Kerry was frustrated by Viet Nam, like so many people are, and if he gets elected, won't lead us into it again.

[edited because I became a propoganda spewing ultra left wing freak. now, watch this hatrick]

[Edited on 7-31-2004 by Backlash]

[longshot]

I understand that Kerry and the Democratic party leave a lot of things to be desired in many circumstances.

I do have a question though for the people here who are supportive of the Republicans this time around.

Do you think that what the republican party represents the same ideals that it did 5 years ago? Before the George W. era?

I'm still undecided, and I grew up in a household that was very very republican. What I see today I feel is quite different than what it was. Maybe this needs it's own topic, but I was curious what you guys think. Again, I'm just curious of your opinion.

[Back]

Originally posted by longshot
Do you think that what the republican party represents the same ideals that it did 5 years ago?

I think Republicans want what all Americans want. Security. Fiscially and at home. Not rabies. The only problem is, they don't like to share with the rest of us.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Backlash
I think Kerry was frustrated by Viet Nam, like so many people are, and if he gets elected, won't lead us into it again.I'm always surprised by people who think Iraq is somehow going to morph into Vietnam.

5 years ago, I wasn't paying attention to politics. :( My bedtime was before the Daily Show. So I can't say whether the Republican message has changed.

[longshot]

The party used to be about small federal government.

It used to be about the states' rights, and against federal laws.

It used to not religously crazy enough for Pat Buchanan, but now you don't hear anything about him because the crazy Christian "void" has now been filled by the republican party.

It used to be about being fiscally conservative. We have record deficits now.

Spending 1.5 billion on a campaign to get people to marry? That sounds like some democrat B.S. to me... spending government funds on needless (or discretionary) public programs.

This is not about Bush as a president, but where the party is now, compared to where it was. I just don't see how it's the same.

Having grown up in a republican voting household, I see it as being so different now than it was.

Backlash, I understand what you are saying about security, but that's not what I meant. I'm saying that ideologically, the republican party is in a much different place than it used to be.

[Valthissa]

Originally posted by longshot
The party used to be about small federal government.

It used to be about the states' rights, and against federal laws.

It used to not religously crazy enough for Pat Buchanan, but now you don't hear anything about him because the crazy Christian "void" has now been filled by the republican party.

It used to be about being fiscally conservative. We have record deficits now.

Spending 1.5 billion on a campaign to get people to marry? That sounds like some democrat B.S. to me... spending government funds on needless (or discretionary) public programs.

This is not about Bush as a president, but where the party is now, compared to where it was. I just don't see how it's the same.

Having grown up in a republican voting household, I see it as being so different now than it was.

Backlash, I understand what you are saying about security, but that's not what I meant. I'm saying that ideologically, the republican party is in a much different place than it used to be.

I agree

the party you remember was almost a permanent minority in the house and senate. now that they have been in power for a reasonably large percentage of the past 12 years they are revealed as identical to democrats - they can't resist the urge to spend more money than they should, they just apportion it to support the thing that seems to matter the most to politicans - re-election (they spend money on differnet things than democrats to get votes).

I've said in other threads, after many years of political activism I am convinced that the only good government is divided government. My favorite line up would be a republican house, a strong democratic majority in the senate, and a republican president.

C/Valth

[imported_Kranar]

<< I've said in other threads, after many years of political activism I am convinced that the only good government is divided government. My favorite line up would be a republican house, a strong democratic majority in the senate, and a republican president. >>

I'm the same way, but for Canada, heh. I vote Conservative for provincial (state) governments and Liberal for federal governments. I do this because I feel being conservative should be more of a personal characteristic. Conservative governments restrict the rights and ideals of liberals, while liberal governments do not restrict the rights and ideals of conservatives. I mean both countries are capatalist in nature so even with many of the social programs that liberal governments offer, conservatives can still maintain their conservative philosophy without government infringing on it.

With a conservative party in power, however, those who are liberal have a much harder time maintaining a liberal philosophy since conservative governments impose far more restrictions to maintain their values. I'll admit for the most part I do hold conservative values but those are personal values for me and I don't need the government to help me maintain those values.

So, the one piece of insight I can give you is that if you share conservative values, you can still vote for a liberal government so long as you don't feel that a liberal government will endanger your personal rights or force you to abandon your personal philosophy (which liberal governments can do when they get carried away).

In the long run, that is the real and possibly only danger that governments present, either liberal or conservative. Governments become so powerful and manipulative that they slowly start to shape the lives of their citizens rather than the citizens shaping the face of government.

[Latrinsorm]

Kranar, do they have real liberal and real conservative politicians in Canada? For the most part, we only have moderates down here, what with the pandering to the voters and all.

[kheldarin]

Hello. My name is John Kerry, I approve this message. I'm running for President. Please consider my qualifications as set forth in the following resume.

Resume of JOHN F. KERRY

RESIDENCE:
Seven mansions, including Washington DC, worth multi-millions.

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:
College:
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my counterpart George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get admitted to Harvard or graduate with an M.B.A. However, as long as Jay Leno and David Letterman make fun of his intelligence, the American people will think I am smart.

Military:
I used three minor injuries to get an early discharge from the military and service in Vietnam after only 4 months in Vietnam. I then returned to the US, joined anti-war groups in protesting the war, and insulted returning Vietnam vets, claiming they all committed atrocities and were baby killers. I threw my medals, ribbons, or something away in protest. My book "Vietnam Veterans against the War: The New Soldier" shows how I truly feel about the military.


PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
I ran for U.S. Congress and have been there ever since. I have never worked in the private sector now would I. As the voters in Massachusetts can attest, in my 32 years, not a single piece of legislation bears my name. I have no real world experience except marrying a rich women and running HJ Heinz foundation vicariously through my wife Teresa.


ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS US SENATOR:
I set the record for the most liberal voting record, exceeding even Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton. I have consistently failed to support our military and CIA by voting against budgets, thus gutting our country's ability to defend itself. Although I voted for the Iraq War, now I am against it and refuse to admit that I voted for it. I voted in favor of every liberal piece of legislation. I have no plan to help this country but I intend to raise taxes
significantly if I am elected. I have been too busy over the past two years while running for President to participate in Senate votes but I did make it back to vote against a bill that would outlaw partial birth abortions. I make no or little charitable contributions of my own and have never agreed to pay any voluntary additional taxes in MA, despite family wealth in excess of $700 million. I voted to cut every law enforcement, CIA and defense bill in my career as a US Senator. I ordered Boston to remove a fire hydrant in front of my mansion, thereby endangering my neighbors in the event of fire. Although I claim to be in favor of alternative energy sources, Ted Kennedy and I oppose windmills off Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard as it might spoil our view of the ocean as we cruise on our yacht.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
None.

PERSONAL
My wealth so far exceeds that of my counterpart, George Bush, that he will never catch up.
I ride a Serotta bicycle ($6,500). My Gulfstream V Jet I call "The Flying Squirrel."
I named my $850,000 42 foot Hinckley twin diesel yacht the "Scarmouche. I am the candidate for the average man. I have accused my opponent of sending millions of jobs overseas although our family business (Heinz) now has the majority of its plants located outside the United States. I don't own any SUVs but my family does, including one parked at my Nantucket summer mansion, though I am against large polluting inefficient vehicles and blame George Bush for the energy problems. I am fascinated by rap and hip-hop and you had better listen to it as it reflects our real American values and culture.

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

[Boobstastegreat]

Originally posted by kheldarin
Hello. My name is John Kerry, I approve this message. I'm running for President. Please consider my qualifications as set forth in the following resume.

Resume of JOHN F. KERRY

RESIDENCE:
Seven mansions, including Washington DC, worth multi-millions.

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:
College:
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my counterpart George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get admitted to Harvard or graduate with an M.B.A. However, as long as Jay Leno and David Letterman make fun of his intelligence, the American people will think I am smart.

Military:
I used three minor injuries to get an early discharge from the military and service in Vietnam after only 4 months in Vietnam. I then returned to the US, joined anti-war groups in protesting the war, and insulted returning Vietnam vets, claiming they all committed atrocities and were baby killers. I threw my medals, ribbons, or something away in protest. My book "Vietnam Veterans against the War: The New Soldier" shows how I truly feel about the military.


PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
I ran for U.S. Congress and have been there ever since. I have never worked in the private sector now would I. As the voters in Massachusetts can attest, in my 32 years, not a single piece of legislation bears my name. I have no real world experience except marrying a rich women and running HJ Heinz foundation vicariously through my wife Teresa.


ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS US SENATOR:
I set the record for the most liberal voting record, exceeding even Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton. I have consistently failed to support our military and CIA by voting against budgets, thus gutting our country's ability to defend itself. Although I voted for the Iraq War, now I am against it and refuse to admit that I voted for it. I voted in favor of every liberal piece of legislation. I have no plan to help this country but I intend to raise taxes
significantly if I am elected. I have been too busy over the past two years while running for President to participate in Senate votes but I did make it back to vote against a bill that would outlaw partial birth abortions. I make no or little charitable contributions of my own and have never agreed to pay any voluntary additional taxes in MA, despite family wealth in excess of $700 million. I voted to cut every law enforcement, CIA and defense bill in my career as a US Senator. I ordered Boston to remove a fire hydrant in front of my mansion, thereby endangering my neighbors in the event of fire. Although I claim to be in favor of alternative energy sources, Ted Kennedy and I oppose windmills off Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard as it might spoil our view of the ocean as we cruise on our yacht.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
None.

PERSONAL
My wealth so far exceeds that of my counterpart, George Bush, that he will never catch up.
I ride a Serotta bicycle ($6,500). My Gulfstream V Jet I call "The Flying Squirrel."
I named my $850,000 42 foot Hinckley twin diesel yacht the "Scarmouche. I am the candidate for the average man. I have accused my opponent of sending millions of jobs overseas although our family business (Heinz) now has the majority of its plants located outside the United States. I don't own any SUVs but my family does, including one parked at my Nantucket summer mansion, though I am against large polluting inefficient vehicles and blame George Bush for the energy problems. I am fascinated by rap and hip-hop and you had better listen to it as it reflects our real American values and culture.

PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

lol lol lol lol!

[Latrinsorm]

Everyone knows CT > MA, so Bush will win. There, I said it.

[Ilvane]

Bush didn't have a record to run on in the first election aside from what he did in Texas, which was enough.

I think Kerry did a great job on his speech. I think now, he needs to get out and get his message across.

And the world can end, I agreed with longshot.;)

-A

[Prestius]

I suppose "lol lol lol lol!" except that most of the stuff in that that "resume" can easily be snoped as false or as out-of-context mischaracterizatons. But hey ... as a comedy peice it's worth a courtesy chuckle, I suppose.

-P

[Ilvane]

George W. Bush: Resume

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."--George W. Bush

Education (highlights):

With my daddy's help, I got into exclusive Andover, where I was a mediocre student.

Was in the bottom 20 percent of students as a freshman at Yale, where I also joined the secret Skull and Bones society.

Applied to the University of Texas Law School and was rejected.

Past work experience:

Ran for congress and lost.

Served for a decade on the board of a company that financed several R-rated slasher B movies.

Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, so the company went bankrupt. Sold all my stock just in the nick of time to a wealthy Saudi friend of my father.

Bought a small portion of the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that forcibly took land using eminent domain and taxpayer money. Most notable decision: Traded Sammy Sosa to the White Sox for Harold Baines. Most notable profiteering: Parlayed a $605K loan into a $14.9 Million profit using taxpayer money and eminent domain laws to evict homeowners, obtain land and increase the value of the shares in the Texas Rangers.

Accomplishments While Governor of Texas (1995-2000):

Relaxed pollution laws for power and oil companies (I "grandfathered" the dirtiest coal burning power plants, making them exempt from clean air laws, for example) and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union, in 1999. The same year, Houston had the "highest ozone level reading in the nation", and was second most ozone-polluted city in the country from 1997 through 1999.

Slashed taxes, reduced state revenue to the point of bankruptcy and put the Texas government in debt for billions in borrowed money, the interest for which is now paid for by the Texas taxpayer.

Set a record for the most executions by any Governor in American history and became famous for publicly mocking Faye Tucker, a Christian female death row inmate, for her clemency plea before she was executed.

Appointed US President, on a questionable decision by a highly partisan Supreme Court, after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes.

Accomplishments While US President (2001-present):

Attacked and invaded two countries so far, losing more US soldiers after I claimed "Mission Accomplished" than the total number who were killed during full combat operations in both wars combined.

Spent the largest surplus in the history of the country and nearly bankrupted the treasury.

Shattered records for the biggest annual deficit in history.

Presided over all time economic record for most private bankruptcies filed during any Presidency, beating the previous record, which was set during the depression years.

Set all-time record for biggest loss of value in the history of the stock market during any Presidency.

Helped "push" through Congress and then signed into law the largest overtime pay cut in US history, despite the fact that 3 out of 4 Americans opposed it.

First President in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any President in US history.

After taking the entire month of August 2001 off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history, the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips of any President in US history.

In my first three years in office over 3.3 million Americans lost their jobs.

Presided over the all-time U.S. record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.

Set the record for the fewest amount of press conferences of any President since the advent of television.

Presided over perhaps the biggest energy crisis in US history and refused to intervene when ENRON corruption was revealed and many states faced bankruptcy.

Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans while posing on aircraft carriers in a flight suit and despite praising the troops at every opportunity.

Inspired the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest a US decision to go to war (15 million people).

My administration is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history, surpassing the secrecy of the Nixon administration at its darkest moments.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice, had a Chevron oil tanker named after her).

Presided over the worst fiscal crisis to hit all 50 states of the Union since World War II.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud (ENRON, WorldCom, Global Crossing) of any market in any country in history.

First President in US history to order an unprovoked attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.

First President in US history to start a war against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

Created the largest new government bureaucracy (Department of Homeland Security) in the history of the United States.

Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any President in US history.

First President in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

Along with my Attorney General, John Ashcroft, I have eroded the civil liberties of American citizens more than at any other time in US history.

After the 9/11 attacks, I lobbied for and signed into law the "rush job" Patriot Act, which legalized "Big Brother-like" surveillance of US citizens for the first time in history.

I disregard states rights when it suits me, but I always run for office on a platform that holds states rights above federal rights.

I've imprisoned more sick people for growing and smoking medicinal Cannabis than any other president, in violation of states rights, of course, and against the wishes of the states and local voters.

Withdrew from the World Court (International Court of Justice) and I refuse to recognize it unless it gives my administration, the US and global corporations special immunity.

I have kept 660 prisoners of war in Guantanamo Bay for two years without charging any of them. I've cleverly classified them as "enemy combatants", thereby allowing me to circumvent the Geneva Convention when I feel like it.

All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

My personal friend and biggest lifetime campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

Instead of springing into action as Commander in Chief after I learned that the US was under attack on 9/11, I read a book called 'The Pet Goat' to schoolchildren for a while so I wouldn't alarm them.

First US President to establish a secret shadow government, and I did this without the knowledge or participation of the opposition parties in congress.

Squandered world sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

With a policy of 'disengagement' and open public support for alleged war criminal, Ariel Sharon, allowed and condoned the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

First US President in history to have a majority of the people of Europe view the US as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

First US President in history to have the people of South Korea feel more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.

Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'. Additionally, I have failed to bring to justice anyone else responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

Failed to capture the anthrax suspect(s) who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capital building.

After intense pressure from families of 9/11 victims and others, I finally consented to a public 9/11 investigation over a year after the attacks. But my first nominee to head the Commission, Henry Kissinger, resigned because of his secret ties to Middle Eastern business interests.

In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every economic category into a sharply downward trend.

Did nothing about the failing US power grid during the first two years of my presidency, despite repeated warnings, and later presided over the largest total power blackout in US history that incapacitated several states and part of Canada.

In order to prevent financing abortions in China, I cut off all $34 million of aid to the U.N. Population Fund, which was also used to provide medical care to teenagers with defective pregnancies.

I have done a lot to weaken environment regulations in America. My administration has: Rolled back clean air standards; broken a promise to address global warming; slowed the clean up of toxic waste dumps while making taxpayers foot the bill; changed regulations to allow more arsenic in tap water; advocated a forest policy that will vastly increase timber cutting; cut back protections for endangered species; fought for oil drilling in the pristine Arctic National Wildlife Refuge; allowed America's dirtiest power plants to keep polluting; opposed renewable energy and reversed course on energy efficiency; and given key positions in the White House to former energy executives and lobbyists.

Records and References:

At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available).

My daddy pulled strings to get me into the Air National Guard and make sure I didn't have to serve abroad during the Vietnam war, and then I went AWOL and deserted the military during wartime, for which I was not punished.

I've never taken drug tests and I've been evasive about whether I've used any illegal drugs or not.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed and unavailable for public view.

Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed and unavailable for public review.

For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (they can be reached at their offices of the secretive Carlyle Group, which has ties to the family of Osama Bin Laden).

[Artha]

The Kerry one was funnier.

[Back]

LOL. Yeah, the Kerry one was funnier because it was so obviously full of bullshit.

Where'd you get that, Ilvane? Or did you compile that yourself? :worship:

[edit for misspelled nomenclature of a goddess, and we all know how goddesses can get when ired]

[Edited on 8-3-2004 by Backlash]

[Ilvane]

I wish I had compiled that, though my rants can go that long sometimes. :grin:

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushresume.htm

I'm heading to sleep, we'll talk more about this later!

-A

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I'm heading to sleep, we'll talk more about this later!Yippee, a head start!

First: description of post-college pre-Governer life was much more humorously (and succinctly) summed up as "wandered around in a drunken haze" by the Daily Show.
Spent the largest surplus in the history of the country Le stare.
Shattered records for the biggest annual deficit in history.So we (I know I do, anyway) want to be safe from terror, but we don't want to spend too much. Got it.
Set all-time record for biggest loss of value in the history of the stock market during any Presidency.Damn, now how did FDR deal with the dotcom bubble bursting?
First President in US history to enter office with a criminal record.Given that pretty much every American who's ever driven on a highway has broken the law, I don't see how this is something we should all wag our fingers about.
Presided over perhaps the biggest energy crisis in US history and refused to intervene when ENRON corruption was revealed and many states faced bankruptcy.
I disregard states rights when it suits me, but I always run for office on a platform that holds states rights above federal rights.So wait, he lets states deal with their own problems, but he doesn't?
First President in US history to order an unprovoked attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.I'm sure Mexico and damn near every Indian nation has something to say about this.
First US President to establish a secret shadow governmentNot all that secret, apparently.
Squandered world sympathy for the US after 9/11Since when are dancing and cheering means of showing sympathy? Because I don't remember anyone dancing and cheering at the last funeral I was at (though I was a bit preoccupied).
In a little over two years created the most divided country in decadesWell golly, I guess that means the 2000 election must have been pretty near unanimous.
while making taxpayers foot the billWho else would he make pay, out of curiousity? Canadians? Illegal immigrants? People who don't have any taxable income?
fought for oil drilling in the pristine Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have. Naughty naughty, just because they're really far apart doesn't mean I won't remember.
First President in US history to start a war against the will of the United Nations How many wars have we had since the inception of the UN, btw?

Have a nice sleep! :) Because I'm totally stoked for your responses.

[Ilvane]

Here's a link for sources and where much of this stuff is taken from.

http://idontfeelsogood.blogspot.com/2003_08_01_idontfeelsogood_archive.html

-A

[Wezas]

Trying to keep as few political threads as possible. What's the deal with the story that Bush's main agenda for his second term is going to be to get rid of the IRS in favor of a more flat tax?

Is it all just hearsay so far? (I've heard it on the radio, and a few bias places (like Drudge).

[Back]

Here you go, Weez. (http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39762)


Read GOP lips: No more IRS
Hastert hints of Bush's secret plan to end income tax in his 2nd term

Interesting rumor, great idea. Too bad it will never happen.

And back to politics, lets talk a little more about conservative spin. Who used to call who "bleeding hearts" then turned around and were all of a sudden concerned about the Iraqi people? Right!

Next thing you know they are going to start espousing leagalizing marjuana. Are conservatives so desperate to recruit that they are becoming more moderate? They could be, and if they do the things they say, they might get some support from the rest of us. Problem is, they don't do everything they promise and the rest of us get the shaft.

The word conservative means you are against change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I can agree with that, but sometimes you need to go back to the drawingboard to get things done. Lets change the stuff we need to, and leave the good stuff that works alone. I'm all for that.

[Back]

Funny Will Ferral Bush Satire video here. (http://whitehousewest.com/)

LOL

[Wezas]

Amusing video. The poke at Fox was one of the more amusing parts.

[Back]

"As you well know... since I took office, things have gotten well, really really really bad."

CUT!

"That seemed like a good one."

LOL. The bold is something I just caught.

[Latrinsorm]

Bill Clinton (yes, the Bill Clinton) will be on the Daily Show this coming Monday. 11:00 PM on Comedy Central. You owe it to yourselves to watch. :thumbsup:

[Jenisi]

Hrmph.

[Artha]

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/DemocraticDuo-X.gif

[Prestius]

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW07-07-04.gif



http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/sb080304.gif

[Latrinsorm]

I don't get the whole "Kerry is smarter than Bush" kick.

[Hulkein]

Didn't Kerry graduate with a C or C+ average at Yale?

[GSLeloo]

I hope I graduate higher than that. Someone also told me my SAT scores were higher than Bush's. What were Bush's scores?

[Back]

Couldn't find Kerry's, but herre is this at least...

Bush/Gore SAT Comparison (http://www.insidepolitics.org/heard/heard32300.html)


Bush

SAT Verbal Score
566 (of 800)

SAT Math Score
640 (of 800)


Gore

SAT Verbal Score
625 (of 800)

SAT Math Score
730 (of 800)

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Backlash
Couldn't find Kerry's, but herre is this at least...Funny how they don't have any grad school comparison there. I would think that'd be the big one.

[Back]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Backlash
Couldn't find Kerry's, but herre is this at least...Funny how they don't have any grad school comparison there. I would think that'd be the big one.

OMFG!! CONSPIRXORZ!!~

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
Couldn't find Kerry's, but herre is this at least...

Bush/Gore SAT Comparison (http://www.insidepolitics.org/heard/heard32300.html)


Bush

SAT Verbal Score
566 (of 800)

SAT Math Score
640 (of 800)


Gore

SAT Verbal Score
625 (of 800)

SAT Math Score
730 (of 800)

Heh.. SAT scores mean shit really. I scored higher than Al Bore and you certainly don't want me as President..

Or DO you??

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Backlash
OMFG!! CONSPIRXORZ!!~ Dude, it was a mellow observation, not a furious accusation. :hippie:

[Back]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Backlash
OMFG!! CONSPIRXORZ!!~ Dude, it was a mellow observation, not a furious accusation. :hippie:

Sometimes I feel like everyone takes my jokes too seriously, and takes my seriousness like a joke. Ah well, its not my fault.

[Back]

This is amazing. (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-PLS&idq=/ff/story/0001/20040806/1244627398.htm)


Hart, 60, vows if elected to work toward keeping “less favored races” from reproducing or immigrating to the United States. In campaign literature, Hart contends that “poverty genes” threaten to turn the United States into “one big Detroit.”

In this day and age??? Yeah buddy, tighten up that gene pool you came from. Even one-cell organisms advance.