Trying to decide what to do with my half-elf rogue

[kutter]

XXXXX (at level 49), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 171 71 71
Shield Use.........................| 198 98 98
Combat Maneuvers...................| 181 81 81
Edged Weapons......................| 200 100 100
Ambush.............................| 182 82 82
Physical Fitness...................| 130 35 35
Dodging............................| 182 82 82
Arcane Symbols.....................| 54 11.733 10 2 days, 2 hours, 32 minutes
Harness Power......................| 35 7 7
Elemental Mana Control.............| 10 2.993 0 3 days, 6 hours, 24 minutes
Survival...........................| 50 10.965 0 2 days, 23 hours, 44 minutes
Disarming Traps....................| 200 100 100
Picking Locks......................| 200 100 100
Stalking and Hiding................| 200 100 100
Perception.........................| 200 100 100
Climbing...........................| 108 26 26
Swimming...........................| 74 16 16
First Aid..........................| 50 10.965 0 2 days, 23 hours, 44 minutes

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4 4
Training Points: 13 Phy 219 Mnt

I am currently unlearning Arcane Symbol to 10, not conventional I know but I like it for RP stuff. I am also unlearning all ranks of First Aid and Survival, that is all holdover from GS3 stuff I never fixed, I was gone a long time, skinning changed so much if I want/need skins I will find/create a ranger. I am also getting rid of my mana share, that too is a hold over from GS3 when it was easier to share with someone that over trained even if you had almost none.

I currently hunt ambush from hiding, I have pretty good success with things my age and up unless they have really good perception, then I would say it was fair. I am wearing MBP and hunt with a short sword and use a large shield.

I have a fixskills available and was wondering what holes folks are seeing on where I am. I need to get PF up to 1X, I know that. One question I have is I have been doing a lot of research today on dodge vs. shield, actually for a friend, but it got me thinking about me as well and the trade-offs. The numbers are not conclusive, at least to me, so I was looking for some real life experiences. I have picked up climb and swim as I could in the past and may have more luck now, don't really know how much we should end up with for those. I will probably continue to single in armor till cap to get to 120; for some reason I remember that number being important for MBP, can't recall why right now though. If I can find the points I would like to get to 2X in CM, Ambush, and Dodge, as well as maintain the other items I am doubled in. I have not crunched the numbers yet to see if that is realistic.

So let me have it, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

[subzero]

I'm not real spectacular with rogues when it comes to hunting, but I can say a couple things. First being that you're trained in pick locks and disarm and say that arcane symbol training isn't conventional... I'd say it's quite normal. Perhaps even for those not trained in lockpicking. Which kinda leads to the other thing; spellburst. Spellburst sucks. To hunt in areas where it is in place (if you're using spells not known to you, anyway), you need to train in various magic-related skills. Far more than you'd probably want, really. So, the short of it is, I wouldn't be in any hurry to drop those AS and HP ranks. You're going to end up learning them later anyway and might have a harder time fitting them back in the training plan.

[kutter]

i will be leaving Arcane Symbols at 10 for now and I am not reducing Harness Power at all, in fact at some point I expect to add to it since post cap I would love to get to at least 410 since it is only 6 more ranks; but I'm not sure if it is worth trying since I hunt in MBP the lowest I can get my hindrance down to is 16 so I am not sure about hunting with 410 with one cast in 6 failing.

I am still hoping for insight into dodge vs. shield and training in each. I played with the shield program someone had written, interesting for sure, I may have to think about going down in size at some point, although that seems counter intuitive to me.

[Rhovan]

Arcane Symbols and Magic Item Use are both easy ways to get small spells for a rogue through scrolls/magical items. AS are great because you need some ranks anyway if you are disarming boxes and it is slightly cheaper. MIU is probably better if you aren't picking though, because it is much easier to buy small spell imbeddables than get the same scrolls. It's great to get both if you have the TP's for it.

I can't speak much from experience in the dodge/shield debate as I went purely dodge all the way. I can say that the larger shield you are carrying around, the less DS you'll get from dodge, which is why most rogues say to use a small shield that I know of.

You will need more climing and swimming ranks, but it all depends on where you hunt. They are cheap enough, just get them when you need them.

As for armor, if you are going for MBP, do what you need to to get up to 80 ranks. At 70, you are trained for the roundtime, but not maneuverability. The 120 you have in your head is because you'd get a nice drop in the action penalty. Rogues can also train in armor specialization now. Unfortunately they pretty much decided to give all squares a benefit except heavy armor wearing rogues. Your only option is to use armored evasion for a minimal benefit to the action penalty, but use what you can. At 120 ranks, you'd get 3 ranks with your next coming at 140. Each rank only helps the action penalty by 1 point, so don't worry too much about getting the next one until you've spare time past cap. Being able to cast in MBP is a fine goal, but it's pretty far out there and other things would help you first, but that's a long way off.

Looking at you training plan, you should get up to 404 in minor elementals if you are going to pick (and getting 406 isn't bad either), but they can cost a lot. Boxes vary, but I think you'll have a hard time opening them by 65 without them. Until you add spells into your plan, drop the harness power (unless you're GoS).

2x hiding in MBP should work well enough for a long time yet. I didn't have any real problems until I was mid 80's in the Rift (though I also avoided the undead). I still make it work with 2x, but you might have to sneak into a room instead of hide outright. I also dropped vanish as it wasn't worth the cost compared to the success rate from the penalties you get from plate (did I mention squares saw some nice benefits except for heavy armor rogues?).

2x perception is nice to have, but it isn't necessary. With TP's being short, drop that to 1x. By your level, I think that would be plenty for boxes.

[DaCapn]

The light armor benefits are a little rough because the three that are pretty much supposed to help out light armor (evade mastery, slippery mind, and vanish) cost 24 points each to master plus a 4-rank smastery prerequisite ofr vanish. That's 92 CM points total. Even if you're going for a middle-ground, you're looking at a large commitment. You wouldn't be able to pull those skills off at level 40 but you could easily pull off MBP at level 40 at a much cheaper training cost (and to much greater effect).

If you're headed for MBP, you should hold off on getting 410 (you're not going to be casting it in MBP). If you want to be casting 410 at lower levels, consider chain shirt as your max. Right now you have to round out your physical skills.

Dropping the tertiary skills is a good move, 10 ranks of AS is pretty standard for scarabs. I's drop swim (there's only a few places out there that require it and 16 ranks won't get you very far) and 25 ranks of perception. I think that will get you exactly enough points for 1x PF and 80 ranks of AU. After that, how you want to balance dodge/shield is up to you. Without training in AU thereafter, you'll quickly accumulate points to finish off other skills (ambush, 2x PF, etc).

For shield vs. dodge, Celephais made a thread with some EBP research with different shield sizes, armors, and training configurations. You may want to check that out.

What do your CMs look like? Combat mobility is a must. Dirtkick is probably the best offensive CM.

[Rhovan]

Thanks for mentioning PF Capn. I meant to say something and forgot. I bumped PF to 2.5x as my first priority after cap. It's used in so many things, it'd be silly not to go 1x as a square.

[DaCapn]

Thanks for mentioning PF Capn. I meant to say something and forgot. I bumped PF to 2.5x as my first priority after cap. It's used in so many things, it'd be silly not to go 1x as a square.

Rogues are capped at 2x PF. 3x is warriors, monks, and empaths only. It's stupid.

EDIT: It's silly for any profession to not go at least 1x it, really.

[Rhovan]

Once again, I bow to Capn's wise words. I only hope my brain starts firing on all cylinders again once I shake this cold.

[kutter]

Thanx for the insight everyone, just to clarify, I am already trained through disarm enhancement.

A lot of my training is left over from GS3. I took a long break, PF was not nearly as important in GS3 as it seems to be now so I will be getting that up soon.

I am in MBP right now, as Rhovan pointed out, while my RT is fine with it, maneuvering is non-existent. If I am doing guild skills I have to break my chain back out so I will be getting that up to 80 as well.

I do not expect to look at training in spells again for some time, probably not even until post cap so casting in MBP is not a big deal for now.

Capn, et. all, is there a thought process on perception? I had always learned whatever you trained in for other picking skills was what you trained in for perception, has that thought process changed? If so what is recommended 1.5, 1.7, etc?

As for CMAN this is what I currently have:
Shadow Mastery smastery 3
Silent Strike silentstrike 4
Combat Mobility mobility 1
Predator's Eye predator 3

I went through and made changes so here is where I am right now:

XXXXXX (at level 50), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 172 72 80 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Shield Use.........................| 199 99 99
Combat Maneuvers...................| 183 83 83
Edged Weapons......................| 200 100 100
Ambush.............................| 183 83 83
Physical Fitness...................| 145 45 50 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Dodging............................| 183 83 83
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10.865 10 5 hours, 2 minutes
Harness Power......................| 35 7 7
Elemental Mana Control.............| 5 1.906 0 15 hours, 52 minutes
Survival...........................| 45 9.527 0 15 hours, 52 minutes
Disarming Traps....................| 201 101 101
Picking Locks......................| 201 101 101
Stalking and Hiding................| 201 101 101
Perception.........................| 201 101 75 1 day, 19 hours, 20 minutes
Climbing...........................| 108 26 26
Swimming...........................| 74 16 16
First Aid..........................| 45 9.527 0 15 hours, 52 minutes

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4 4
Training Points: 0 Phy 11 Mnt (252 Mnt converted to Phy)

[DaCapn]

Capn, et. all, is there a thought process on perception? I had always learned whatever you trained in for other picking skills was what you trained in for perception, has that thought process changed? If so what is recommended 1.5, 1.7, etc?

The trap discovery formula takes disarm and perception into account so you can shave a little perception if you're low on points. It just comes at the expense of detecting traps that are way over your head. As long as you stick within your functional range, it's not much of a risk at all. These days, there's not a lot of service picking done. You're going to need to be 90+% reliant on finding your own boxes unless you have friends who count on you.

[kutter]

The trap discovery formula takes disarm and perception into account so you can shave a little perception if you're low on points. It just comes at the expense of detecting traps that are way over your head. As long as you stick within your functional range, it's not much of a risk at all. These days, there's not a lot of service picking done. You're going to need to be 90+% reliant on finding your own boxes unless you have friends who count on you.


Capn now that I hear you say that I would have to say you are absolutely correct. The other day a friend of mine who hunts OTF jokingly asked me if I would open a box for him, he had looked at it and there was no trap on it. I told him sure, you never know, I pull weak boxes off critters all the time so sure. Out of habit when he handed it to me I checked it for traps, it had one in the mid 700's, which is probably 500 or so higher than I could probably get. I guess that should have been a pretty good indicator that my perception was a little on the high side. I brought it down to 1.5 so we will see how that works for a while.