Young Bard Advice

[Elgrim]

I'm picking back up on my bard after about 12 years of him hitting on his butt. I'd like to go somewhat-pure with brawling as a secondary ability. Since he's fairly low level he has a while before he can actually hunt as a pure, so the brawling will be his primary attack form for a while. I level fairly slowly so he will have the yearly respec before he gets in the 50 level range I'm sure.

Race: Human Profession: Bard (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 27 Expr: 792136 Level: 26
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 63 (11) ... 63 (11)
Constitution (CON): 78 (14) ... 78 (14)
Dexterity (DEX): 75 (12) ... 75 (12)
Agility (AGI): 78 (14) ... 78 (14)
Discipline (DIS): 87 (18) ... 87 (18)
Aura (AUR): 75 (12) ... 75 (12)
Logic (LOG): 91 (25) ... 91 (25)
Intuition (INT): 84 (22) ... 84 (22)
Wisdom (WIS): 81 (15) ... 81 (15)
Influence (INF): 56 (3) ... 56 (3)
Mana: 79 Silver: 0

(at level 26), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use.....................| 111 27
Shield Use...................| 154 54
Combat Maneuvers.........| 111 27
Brawling.......................| 154 54
Physical Fitness.............| 111 27
Harness Power..............| 111 27
Elemental Lore - Air.........| 111 27
Mental Lore - Manipulation.| 111 27
Perception...................| 111 27
Climbing.......................| 70 15
Swimming.....................| 70 15

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental..............| 0

Spell Lists
Bard............................| 27


So my question, is this viable? Am I missing anything that is a must have? This plan really doesnt have room for mana share or MIU/AS right now. I plan on using a sonic cestus and a shield, trying to keep my defense fairly solid.


Thanks!

[EDubbs]

I'm on a similar path. I'm 2x brawl, and I stopped armor use at 27 ranks for studded leather. I'll pick it up again at some point, maybe after I get 425. I really don't know how useful it is going to be for me, but I feel like it might be.

My training is
1x armor to 27 ranks
2x brawl
.5x dodge
1x pf to max hp
1x hp
24 ranks Mental mana control
9 ranks telepathy lore and the rest is manipulation lore
4 ranks air lore, planning on gaining more soon as Song of Tonis will become available
20 ranks perception, climb, swim

Minor Elemental 15 ranks

Bard - 34 ranks, 1x

I play a flute, and I tried hunting without swinging, and my hunts end VERY fast due to mana. If I get lucky, I can use 1002 to kill a few, but sometimes I take 30 mana to kill a critter. I only have a little over 100 at 32 trains. So far, I've abandoned using 1030 except for crowd control. I hunt with 1003, 1007, 1010, and 1019. My renewal cost is 27 mana. If I have 1012 running, then I'm over 30 mana, and that's a third of my mana just to upkeep. I've tried dropping 1007 to save mana, but it makes my UAC useless. Maybe the CM training will make all the difference. UAC is my primary attack right now, and it is working quite well. So far, I haven't been able to successfully use 1013 to refill my mana from critters, but wands are ok. You're missing mana control, so it isn't viable for you, and I feel like it's a waste of time anyway. Instead of selling them, I stock up on them and just burn em all on a fun hunt destroying critters with 1030.

Are you planning on using a shield while using UAC? It gets in the way, and lowers your UAS quite a bit. This is why I opted for .5x dodge instead of shield. I have 18 ranks right now, and with song of mirrors up, that's slightly over 1x in dodge ranks. My DS is decent in offensive self spelled with a small statue to stay relatively safe. If I get blurs, and colors, it adds a little bit, but it is a fragile build. Using 410, 1002, and 1005 keep me safe, and I bought a few mana regen enhancives to help out, but I don't always need to wear them. 410 is really useful for things that dont have a weapon, and can't be hit with 1005. My build has committed a little more to being a pure, as I dropped CM and shield for going after 425, and guards. I figured at level 50, when I get 425, I'll have the equivalent AS of 50 ranks of CM, along with all the other utility spells. Arguably, if I dropped MnE entirely, as you did, I could probably pick up CM and fully 1x dodge with points to spare to bring armor use up to 1x with the hopes of chain by 50 ... chain armor vs all the spells though? Its a toss up. then again, add another 10 levels, and I've got 430 (+15 DS) vs being another 10 levels out of double chain. You'll have much more UAS due to CM training, but maybe we'll both be singing much more than swinging at that point? That also means that perhaps you'll be safe and sound holding a shield, while I'm still trying to dodge swings with insufficient training.

I'm pretty sure shields will cause an issue with UAC, and perhaps going the remove shield/wear shield to swing path might be better than a sonic shield. Your MM will already be -10 or whatever from using the cestus even though your UAS is higher. It kind of balances out with the difference in DF. I've mostly used weapons as a way to hunt undead and living critters in the same area, flaring gauntlets, get blessed weapon for undead. Your MM will suffer another penalty from having the shield in hand. I'm guessing it'll be -15 or so. My bard is much less successful than my rogue with UAC. 3 ranks of punch mastery makes a huge difference. It's a shame we can't learn it.

I really like using sonic weapons with UAC, as adding flaring gloves gives 3 chances to flare per swing, but I haven't yet seen it. I've liked the idea so much that I'm kind of thinking of one day using 1012, 1007, 1017, 1010, 1019, and running 1035 into a warcamp. 1 second punches with 425 running, fully spelled with song of noise taking out the casters ability to harm me? It sounds really fun, and with enough air lore, and flaring gauntlets, that's a lot of chances at flares. Run in, raise hell, then run out and renew whatever I need to renew.

I like the build, and really like being a bard. Too bad I started on a physical polearm build and put too much into agi/dex for lance swinging. It'll be a long time until I can get a fixstat potion, but it's fun anyway. If I were you I'd miss casting MnE spells, and I might regret needing a shield. Your CM will probably make up for that. When I was asking on Lnet, someone told me that 2x brawl, or 1x shield, or 1x dodge would be enough DS in guarded, but I didn't find this to be true. Anyway, it is pretty fun ... and good luck. Some people told me that I should have waited for a bigger mana reserve before going pure, but the polearm build was getting old.

[Elgrim]

A small shield should give -15 MM with 2x training, add -5 MM for a single cestus, and that gives a total of -20 MM. Given the additional protection of the shield I think its a fair tradeoff, but that is one of the main reasons I was looking for feedback on the build. My main problem is that there are so many skills it seems the bard needs, yet it is really high to fit them in properly with the training point costs. I'd love to have some Mana Control: Mental as well as MnE ranks, but they seem really hard to fit in this early. I'm shooting for about 30 or so CM ranks to train some of the skills that will help defend against attacks later on.

I could save points dropping the Armor Use to 8 ranks and just sticking with doubles, but those saved physical TPs really wont buy me much. I do know that I won't have the mana pool at the lower levels to play as a pure, as you saw yourself, so having a viable attack is a must. I considered just going 1x in brawling, which would probably be enough to get by, but I wasn't sure if people thought that would be enough.

If dodge wasn't so insanely expensive I'd put more there and consider dropping the shield, but for a bard it seems really pricy.

[Jeril]

It kind of depends on what you are doing but on my bard I had 0 combat maneuver training to free up the points for spells, I considered it a fair trade off because at 25 I had 425 which was more AS then I'd be seeing from having combat maneuvers, not to mention all those other useful 400 spells without having to rely on getting them from someone else. And 410 is nifty to have out in the field. He was also only 1x in shield use until recently as well.

[Kastrel]

Whats normally seen as the best race for a bard? Or at least, the races in the running for best race? Would there be a "best melee bard" and "best caster bard"?

[Jeril]

If you want the best bard, I'd say dark elf in the long run, enough dex and agl to swing a lance in five seconds before tonis, and +10 AUR for CS never hurts. Elves aren't bad either, better dex/agl total, INF is a lot higher and they have +5 AUR, the INF helps when you start with increased renew times and makes 1005 a lot more effective.

[Suppressed Poet]

Giants make excellent physical OHEs and archer bards.

Elves are great casters and lancers, but the discipline penalty sucks which affects a lot of things like multi-song penalty.

I think Erithians are a great multi-purpose choice.

[Musicalia]

If you want the best bard, I'd say dark elf in the long run, enough dex and agl to swing a lance in five seconds before tonis, and +10 AUR for CS never hurts. Elves aren't bad either, better dex/agl total, INF is a lot higher and they have +5 AUR, the INF helps when you start with increased renew times and makes 1005 a lot more effective.

Who cares what race? Why worry about stats? Just play whichever is the cutest. Sheesh! C'mon people. Worry about stuff that actually matters!

[Whirlin]

You missed dodge in your training, and still a bit too young for pure-ing. I think you really need to wait til 40-50ish before swapping to pure, but that's my opinion. Once you have 1030 and 425, you're probably good to go.

Race is completely subjective. You may also want to consider spirit regen if you're planning on pure for Wracking with COL. If you're never swinging, AGLDEX doesn't matter. Or if you want to RP, maybe the RP implications of a race is important? Whatever, do what you want!

[Jeril]

I think the low DIS is only a factor when you are low level after a while the renew times are much longer and you have more bard songs which help to offset any multisong penalty.

I don't think races plays as much of a factor in it for wracking as you think, unless you set yourself up with 10 AUR from the start and don't run any of the other spirit draining signs you are only going to wrack once a hunt anyway. If you are around to wrack more the once, you are out there too long and doing it wrong.

[ashleyturnier]

I'm pretty sure shields will cause an issue with UAC, and perhaps going the remove shield/wear shield to swing path might be better than a sonic shield. Your MM will already be -10 or whatever from using the cestus even though your UAS is higher. It kind of balances out with the difference in DF. I've mostly used weapons as a way to hunt undead and living critters in the same area, flaring gauntlets, get blessed weapon for undead. Your MM will suffer another penalty from having the shield in hand. I'm guessing it'll be -15 or so. My bard is much less successful than my rogue with UAC. 3 ranks of punch mastery makes a huge difference. It's a shame we can't learn it.

[Tenlaar]

Oh you clever spammer.

[Stanley Burrell]

Oh you clever spammer.

Haven't seen that before either.

[Rucca]

Who cares what race? Why worry about stats? Just play whichever is the cutest. Sheesh! C'mon people. Worry about stuff that actually matters!

Oh I agree. AFK, rolling up a dainty half-krol!