Considering a return. Your thoughts?

[Deso]

Hi all,

Desorceri's player here. It's been a few years, and I'm getting the urge to play again even though Savants are no where near being released. How is the sorcery profession doing? I've read over some updates. What do you think of the new curse? Balefire? 740 as a gold ring? 740 as a 712 chant? Any new hunting grounds? Alchemy? Components? Twilight Hall? Any old friends still around? What's the current rate for silvers nowadays? I pretty much sold everything off and donated profits so I'd have to start over with gear.

Thanks,
Steven

[Allereli]

yay! come back.

1. Curse of the star is awesome, so is balefire with demon
2. I like the 740 as gold ring, hate the demon part
3. don't use 740 as a 712 chant
4. no, but semi-regular story lines often have accompanying temporary capped hunting grounds
5. alchemy is still not what it could be
6. components are still heavy
7. Twilight is on the upswing, a bunch of us just re-upped as officers (me, Kethore, Asenora)
8. 1 mil=$7-8

[Manamethis]

Good from what I hear, new curse people like, same as balefire and 740 changes. Nelemar? The scatter? Ew. Ew. Yes. Probably. Around 8. Come back.

[subzero]

Good from what I hear, new curse people like, same as balefire and 740 changes. Nelemar? The scatter? Ew. Ew. Yes. Probably. Around 8. Come back.

Which people like the 740 changes, again? I don't think they play sorcerers...

[Kastrel]

Which people like the 740 changes, again? I don't think they play sorcerers...

I have personally seen nothing but benefits from it. I haven't had a minor failure since the change, and long range transport is running me only 21k a pop versus the 40k I was paying before.

There are reports of people with horrendously bad luck, but at least "theoretically", the new demon failure rate is somewhere in 1 in 1000 for sorcerers who are well trained enough. I PERSONALLY like them, but if people keep having bad luck, I'll keep side with the disgruntled majority to have it changed, if it seems necessary.

[subzero]

I have personally seen nothing but benefits from it. I haven't had a minor failure since the change, and long range transport is running me only 21k a pop versus the 40k I was paying before.

There are reports of people with horrendously bad luck, but at least "theoretically", the new demon failure rate is somewhere in 1 in 1000 for sorcerers who are well trained enough. I PERSONALLY like them, but if people keep having bad luck, I'll keep side with the disgruntled majority to have it changed, if it seems necessary.

Well, maybe it isn't as bad for people not logged in 24/7 using the spell after every hunt, but two sorcerers doing just that in Nelemar have produced horrible results for me. Exp per hour has been well under 2k, probably the 1.4-1.8k range with 1.8 being lucky and my recent deaths had been a constant 5. I stopped using it about a week ago and the numbers are back to where they were prior to the change: exp per hour is 2k+, recent deaths currently at 1 and not on the rise. I dunno, maybe it's just really fuckin stupid of me to expect 740 to be superior to 130, especially considering the whole 'gold-ring' fiasco, but it's not. It's a detriment and annoyance. Personally, I feel we have more than enough annoyance without this last slap in the face. I can use 130 all day every day and have absolutely zero worry. Tell me, why is it acceptable for 740, our pinnacle spell, to have this problem?

Might as well add a 1 in 1000 chance for torment or cloak of shadows to unleash a demon if it's simply about the RP and all that, eh? Why not make maelstrom have a chance to hit the sorcerer with strong elemental backlash; we're far from elemental masters, so it's only natural that those powers get away from us at times. We're not masters of spirit, either, so why not add a chance for those spirits that aid our minor spirit spells to lash out at us instead of our target? Who's to say that the particular spirit isn't more inclined toward our enemy than us?

It's a joke. We lack any real sorcerer proponent among the ranks of GMs and suffer this sort of shit because of it. Outside of cross-realms travel, I'm done with 740.

[nindon]

You'll like bolt spells now that we have Curse of the Star. Balefire is awesome. I use Balefire and Web bolt all the time on the second floor of Nelemar. The key to enjoying Balefire is having enough mana control training to have a high probability of a demon flare. Demon flares are more powerful than the splash flares from ball spells. Without the demon flare, you might as well just use Spirit Fire.

Greater Elementals: 703, 720
Sentries: 703, 704, 708 (optional), 713
Defenders: 704, 708 (leg), 713
Maguses: 118 (or 410 if the magus is hidden), 713
Radicals: 118, 713
Combatants: 717

Using bolt spells takes a lot of TP investments for a sorcerer. In addition to spell aiming, you've got to have mana controls for the demon flares, spirit summoning lore for the webs, demon lore for DF and demon mana capacity, and harness power for the considerable mana requirements. I also use 307, 211 and 513 in additional to a few enhancives.

If you don't have the training to use web bolt, then you can easily come up with several other ways to handle radicals and maguses. Mind Jolt is good on maguses. Limb Disrupt is good for both maguses and radicals. And e-wave is good for everything.

Balefire is pretty good for bandits too. I have found bolts to be an inefficient hunting strategy in the Rift. The old reliable CS spells seem to work better there. And I mainly use CS spells in OTF.

I've mostly been on Teras since the changes to 740. I don't use 740 much on Teras, so I don't have a strong opinion about the changes. When I go back to Icemule soon, I'll be using it on every hunt.

[caelric]

Agree with Curse of the Star being a nice bolt AS bonus, and balefire hitting like a ton of bricks, especially if your Demon Lore is high. Balefire demon flares are great, also, although keeping a demon around is a PITA, whether or not you bothered to go through the illusions guild work. I'd have to check KP for the exact numbers, but the DF for 713 is significantly higher than 111, and generally most sorcs have much higher demon lore than summoning lore.

740 changes are crap. They had an opportunity to make a good spell, and get rid of some of the component crap, and they missed the mark. Sure, the increased amount of demons coming around is neat, but as a 40th level transport spell, it's crap. Might as well use 130 for the return from hunt spell. Or really, just use ;go2. Cross realms travel is neat, but with the recent changes to chrono-mages, that's not worth all that much.

Components are still just as bad as before, for all spells, and alchemy is still something only a masochist could love.

[Deso]

Thanks for the updates. I don't know if I'm equipped to use a demon for Balefire. I know I could cast them in a summoning chamber, but wasn't really interested in them or animates. What do you think I could adjust? Here are my stats/skills from when I left. Would I get a skill migration if I come back? Advice on my training? Is it still viable for today's Elanthia? I prefer Nelemar to the Scatter.

Name: Desorceri Incarnatus Race: Dark Elf Profession: Sorcerer (shown as: Arcanist)
Gender: Male Age: 268 Expr: 12095331 Level: 100
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 94 (22) ... 94 (22)
Constitution (CON): 90 (15) ... 90 (15)
Dexterity (DEX): 90 (30) ... 90 (30)
Agility (AGI): 90 (25) ... 90 (25)
Discipline (DIS): 100 (15) ... 100 (15)
Aura (AUR): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Logic (LOG): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Intuition (INT): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Influence (INF): 96 (18) ... 96 (18)
Mana: 310 Silver: 0

Desorceri (at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Arcane Symbols.....................| 250 150
Magic Item Use.....................| 250 150
Spell Aiming.......................| 302 202
Harness Power......................| 203 103
Elemental Mana Control.............| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 201 101
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 191 91
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 175 75
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 120 30
Perception.........................| 179 79
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 160 60
First Aid..........................| 120 30

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 80 (500 CS, self spelled)

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 88 (452 CS, self spelled)

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 135 (530 CS, self spelled)

[Asha]

Your training is spot on. I'd throw another 20 ranks into necro for max benefits though.
And yeah you'll get a fixskill but you don't need it.

[rolfard]

Why 91 ranks of spirit summoning? Most sorcerers I know quit at 20 or maybe 30 unless they are quite far past cap. I'm 2x cap with 20 ranks currently

[Allereli]

http://carabele.com/LoreBenefits.htm check out how many of our spells summoning affects

[rolfard]

On our circle...curse? Honestly that surprised me. No other profession spells though...

[Allereli]

On our circle...curse? Honestly that surprised me. No other profession spells though...

I didn't specify profession spells, we cast 2 other circles of spells.

[Kastrel]

I don't know if I'm equipped to use a demon for Balefire.

Elemental Mana Control.............| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 201 101
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 175 75


You would be great for Balefire.

Demonology lore will give you about .062 extra DF on it.
Your controls give you a 96% chance for a flare off a demon, if it has mana.
Your mana capacity on demons is around 14 on a Grantris and Igaesha (7 flares) and 40ish on a Shien (20 flares).

You can summon valence specific with 100% success, and archetype specific with 100% if you are in chamber.

You would make a great Balefire user. Could you train more to improve it? Yes, mostly in the form of more DF and mana capacity on the demons, but you are already well trained for the spell.

Also, I don't think anyone mentioned the mana control and spell duration updates.

Basically:
- Almost all self-cast buffs have a standard duration of 20 minutes + 1 minute per spell rank, stackable. This doesn't mean a TON to Sorcerers, but it does make Spirit Defense, and E. Targetting and Barrier stackable to 4 hours. It is a lot more influential on classes like the Paladin, Wizard, Empath and Cleric (who had either tons of non-stackable spells or spells with very short durations).
- Spells cast from scrolls or magic items now have a duration of 10 minutes +30 seconds per relevant skill rank. For Sorcerers, as users of Scroll Infusion, this is relevant. Many spells had their scroll cast duration increased, such as Strength (mostly stuff that had previously had poor duration). Several had their duration decreased, such as Thurfel's Ward and Spirit Shield (anything that already had a good duration). Evarin took a look at all the changes, and I recall that despite the losses, he considered it an improvement overall for Sorcerers with high Arcane Symbols.
- Potions, which do not recieve bonus duration from MIU or AS, were reduced from 20 minutes to 10. Users of Pure Potions everywhere lamented their loss.
- You can now multicast spells based on controls. For every 25 ranks in the relevant control, you can cast a spell for double mana/double duration. For instance, with 75 ranks in Spirit MC, you can cast Lesser Shroud for 4x the mana and 4x the duration. Saves time and screen scroll.
- For every 75 ranks of mana control (with secondary controls counting for half on hybrids like Sorcerers and Empaths) you can MANA SPELLUP to cast almost all self-cast buffs instantly, for no mana cost, 1 time per day. At your training, you could do so 2x a day, with Sorcerers having the potential to do it 4x a day if they were doubled in both controls at cap.
- You can now use MANA PULSE to access your next pulse "early". For every 1 rank of controls you have, you can do this 1 second early. So at your skill, you could get a pulse then instantly get a SECOND pulse if you wished. When the normal pulse time rolls around, you don't get anything though. Good for the last kill or two on a hunt.
- There is now an ingame spell active display that shows spell duration remaining.

[Deso]

Why 91 ranks of spirit summoning? Most sorcerers I know quit at 20 or maybe 30 unless they are quite far past cap. I'm 2x cap with 20 ranks currently

I was hunting with 110, 111, 118 back in the day. I wanted to locate cross realms. I also liked having strong cursed gems for thieves or trickery. :)

[nindon]

Being singled in both mana controls gives you an admirable 76% chance of a demon flare. To reach the maximum 96% chance, you need to be doubled in both controls. That's a lot of TPs for the extra 20 percentage points. I am very slowly working toward that goal, but it is not a high priority.

For purposes of demon flares with balefire, having 90 ranks in each mana control is just as good as having 101 ranks in each mana control. It's based on skill and a summation table. If you do a 90-110 split, you increase the probability to 78%.

[Kastrel]

Being singled in both mana controls gives you an admirable 76% chance of a demon flare. To reach the maximum 96% chance, you need to be doubled in both controls. That's a lot of TPs for the extra 20 percentage points. I am very slowly working toward that goal, but it is not a high priority.

For purposes of demon flares with balefire, having 90 ranks in each mana control is just as good as having 101 ranks in each mana control. It's based on skill and a summation table. If you do a 90-110 split, you increase the probability to 78%.

Just realized I totally read the Krakiipedia entry wrong, and gave misleading info. Thanks for pointing out the correct flare rate!