Am I legally allowed to detain someone on my property?

[Tgo01]

For the past 10 days or so there have been houses near me that have been vandalized nightly. Nothing too serious, eggings, TPing, shit like that. Normally I would just shrug and move on with my life but 10 days in a row is a bit much. I'm just wondering if I happen to catch these little shits on my property am I legally allowed to detain them until the police arrive? How am I allowed to detain them? Can I tackle someone and keep them pinned until cops arrive?

Would the cops even do anything about a couple of kids egging someone's house? I know it's not exactly murder or anything but they are trespassing and damaging my property.

[Kastrel]

I would look into state specific laws. I am almost certain they vary by state, and what is legal in one may be illegal in another.

If its literally be 10 days, try calling the cops first, and see if they will keep a watch.

[4a6c1]

How is it possible that Terrence owns property.

[Reliel]

It's vandalism and if you manage to catch one of them, as long as you don't use lethal force or break some bones, you can restrain them until the cops arrive.

[Tgo01]

I would look into state specific laws. I am almost certain they vary by state, and what is legal in one may be illegal in another.

If its literally be 10 days, try calling the cops first, and see if they will keep a watch.

People have been calling the cops, every time the cops basically say "Kids, what ya gonna do?" Yeah they said they will supposedly send a patrol out but they can't possibly patrol our neighborhood all night.


How is it possible that Terrence owns property.

Same way YOUR FACE!

[Reliel]

Also, 10 days? Really? Are the property owners assholes or something?

[TheEschaton]

You can detain them, but you can't use force. You can block an exit, but exercise of force outside of self defense is usually reserved for a police authority. Some jurisdictions are obviously more fast and loose with these things. In most places you can probably get away with tackling them and sitting on them "in defense" of property.

[Tgo01]

Also, 10 days? Really? Are the property owners assholes or something?

Not to my knowledge. No one has any idea why this is happening all of a sudden and for so long.

[Reliel]

Not to my knowledge. No one has any idea why this is happening all of a sudden and for so long.

I'm not even sure what the point of 10 days of vandalism is. Cops been called every day it's occurred?

[Tgo01]

You can detain them, but you can't use force. You can block an exit, but exercise of force outside of self defense is usually reserved for a police authority. Some jurisdictions are obviously more fast and loose with these things. In most places you can probably get away with tackling them and sitting on them "in defense" of property.

Someone saw one person run away from their house, get into their car and speed off. The other thing I was thinking of doing if I happen to stumble upon such a situation and I catch them unaware, is running to their driver's door and taking the keys out of their ignition so they would really be screwed, they could run away but I have their car sitting in front of my house. Would this be legal or would I be charged with some bullshit grand theft charge or something?


I'm not even sure what the point of 10 days of vandalism is. Cops been called every day it's occurred?

I'm not sure if every person has called the cops but I do know a few people have and the cops just said they'll send a patrol out.

[Reliel]

Catch the license plate. That's a much safer bet. You don't know if it's one person or several. You could walk up expecting a simple grab of the keys and it turns into two guys beating your ass. Would be a funny twist but don't take the risk.

[Warriorbird]

In Virginia you can shoot them if they're facing you.

[Tgo01]

I just checked out my state's rules for a citizen's arrest, basically I can only perform a citizen's arrest if I witness someone commit a felony, if a police officer asks for my assistance or if I'm a business owner/employee and have reason to believe someone is shoplifting.

Surely this can't possibly mean I can stand 10 feet from these people and watch them egg my house and all I can legally do is call the cops and hope they get there before they run away? Citizen's arrest and detaining someone has to be two different things, right?


Catch the license plate. That's a much safer bet. You don't know if it's one person or several. You could walk up expecting a simple grab of the keys and it turns into two guys beating your ass. Would be a funny twist but don't take the risk.

I'll kick all their asses! Even if it's 50. Okay maybe not. I'm not SoTT.


In Virginia you can shoot them if they're facing you.

Time to move to Virgnia.

[Bobmuhthol]

The other thing I was thinking of doing if I happen to stumble upon such a situation and I catch them unaware, is running to their driver's door and taking the keys out of their ignition so they would really be screwed, they could run away but I have their car sitting in front of my house.What kind of idiot walks away from their unlocked, running car?

[Reliel]

What kind of idiot walks away from their unlocked, running car?[/COLOR]

With the current price of gas? Only a maverick with a truly righteous cause.

[4a6c1]

Same way YOUR FACE!

Okay I'm just sayin!!!! You are like the PC mascot you are on here morning noon and night ALL THE DAYS OF THE YEAR. You must have the most awesome job ever is all I'm sayin.

[Tgo01]

What kind of idiot walks away from their unlocked, running car?[/COLOR]

Idiots do it all the time.

[Tgo01]

Okay I'm just sayin!!!! You are like the PC mascot you are on here morning noon and night ALL THE DAYS OF THE YEAR. You must have the most awesome job ever is all I'm sayin.

What are you going on about? I haven't even posted much the past couple of days.

[Latrinsorm]

Catch the license plate. That's a much safer bet. You don't know if it's one person or several. You could walk up expecting a simple grab of the keys and it turns into two guys beating your ass. Would be a funny twist but don't take the risk.Yeah, it doesn't even have to be two guys. Even if I had training I wouldn't bet my life on subduing an unknown opponent unless they were like 10, and even then I wouldn't be super sure about it. Plus you can't get away with it unless they're black.
What are you going on about? I haven't even posted much the past couple of days.I was going to welcome you back! But you were gone for less than a day, so it would have been weird. love, greg the grigori WAIT IS THIS A REP OH NO.

[4a6c1]

I assumed your mom made you clean out the basement.

[Tgo01]

Yeah, it doesn't even have to be two guys. Even if I had training I wouldn't bet my life on subduing an unknown opponent unless they were like 10, and even then I wouldn't be super sure about it.

Screw it, my clone will just carry on.


I assumed your mom made you clean out the basement.

Why are you so interested in my life anyways? Do you have a penis or something?

[4a6c1]

A BIG one.

[Archigeek]

Just run out and take a shit ton of photos or video, make sure you get one of the car too. They're probably kids someone in your neighborhood knows... mail copies of the photos to their parents and see what happens.

[Tisket]

What are you going on about? I haven't even posted much the past couple of days.

She is on far more than you with far less to say of any interest. I've noticed she tends to fling senseless accusations a lot. Someone should pull the plug on her clone too. The future will thank us.

Also, you can sit on me any time, Tg.

[Reliel]

Wait, don't you normally do the sitting Tisket?

[Parkbandit]

In Virginia you can shoot them if they're facing you.

Same in Florida. Heck, I'm not even sure they have to be facing you...


Wait, don't you normally do the sitting Tisket?

I'll reserve a special seat for her....

[subzero]

For the past 10 days or so there have been houses near me that have been vandalized nightly. Nothing too serious, eggings, TPing, shit like that. Normally I would just shrug and move on with my life but 10 days in a row is a bit much. I'm just wondering if I happen to catch these little shits on my property am I legally allowed to detain them until the police arrive? How am I allowed to detain them? Can I tackle someone and keep them pinned until cops arrive?

Would the cops even do anything about a couple of kids egging someone's house? I know it's not exactly murder or anything but they are trespassing and damaging my property.

Keep some eggs nearby. If the fuckers show up, pelt them instead.


Same in Florida. Heck, I'm not even sure they have to be facing you...


Yeah, we're not allowed to put slugs in someone's back.

[AnticorRifling]

Ghillie suit, HK-91 (mostly because the sound that rifle makes when you chamber a round rings louder than anything else around CLICK FUCKIN CLACK), problem solved, problem stayin solved.

[Parkbandit]

Yeah, we're not allowed to put slugs in someone's back.

That's some fucking bullshit. We need to change the laws!

[Delias]

I say you cap those skittle eatin' motherfuckers.

[Warriorbird]

That's some fucking bullshit. We need to change the laws!

Change I can believe in. I don't dig on crazy methheads ambling through the vineyard.

[AnticorRifling]

WB is racist against methheads.

[Delias]

WB is racist against methheads.

"Meth addict! Crack is for losers."

[Warriorbird]

WB is racist against methheads.

I am. Damn white people. Get off Grandpa's lawn!

[Showal]

Okay I'm just sayin!!!! You are like the PC mascot you are on here morning noon and night ALL THE DAYS OF THE YEAR. You must have the most awesome job ever is all I'm sayin.

Oh come on. We are all on here too much and it takes absolutely minimal effort to do so. Youre one of my favorite people on here, Rojo, but this is silly.

[crb]

In Virginia you can shoot them if they're facing you.

In texas you can shoot them if they're running away.

[Keller]

In texas you can shoot them if they're running away.

Please never reproduce.

[Stanley Burrell]

Ghillie suit, HK-91 (mostly because the sound that rifle makes when you chamber a round rings louder than anything else around CLICK FUCKIN CLACK), problem solved, problem stayin solved.

This is seriously why flashbangs should be legally licensed. The SWAT guys I knew couldn't own them (legally on the system) because they're "incendiary explosives". My ass. Why would you use a 91 anyway? No long arm, handgun or shotgun is going to work as well as more better explodey stuff. I'm not saying that because I actually want to injure or maim people with better explodey stuff, but Indendence Day is always shitty here.

[AnticorRifling]

This is seriously why flashbangs should be legally licensed. The SWAT guys I knew couldn't own them (legally on the system) because they're "incendiary explosives". My ass. Why would you use a 91 anyway? No long arm, handgun or shotgun is going to work as well as more better explodey stuff. I'm not saying that because I actually want to injure or maim people with better explodey stuff, but Indendence Day is always shitty here.

Because I have HK-91s in the safe, I don't have flash bangs.

I think a flamethrower would also be good here, kick off a burst of fire towards a safe zone and watch them shit themselves. Dragon breath rounds would work too .... problem is finding a safe fire zone when I'm camped out in front of my house.

[EasternBrand]

Just run out and take a shit

Couldn't agree more, just remember to maintain eye contact with the perps the whole time.

[Showal]

Wow. I wouldnt be back in a neighborhood if i was trying to be a hoodlum and some guy ran out of his house, dropped trow, and took a shit in front of me. Thats the definition of awesome right there. Never fucking around near him.

[subzero]

Couldn't agree more, just remember to maintain eye contact with the perps the whole time.

Ewww, brown-eye contact complete with explosive, flash-bang diarrhea bombs!

[Stanley Burrell]

I'd be poop shy taking a shit in front of prowlers and having to lob grenades simultaneously. It wouldn't go very well, I'd have to tell the scoundrels to wait for it. I'm not a real man.

[Showal]

I'd be poop shy taking a shit in front of prowlers and having to lob grenades simultaneously. It wouldn't go very well, I'd have to tell the scoundrels to wait for it. I'm not a real man.

Exactly, that takes SERIOUS skill.

[Showal]

I doubt any of us, except maybe PB, are man enough to pull that off. And PB just because he's incontinent.

[Tgo01]

Well I asked a police officer and he said in this state we're not allowed to use any sort of physical contact in defense of property. I asked him about the shitting idea and he said it's only legal if I bring a roll of toilet paper.

While I have everyone's attention what do you feel about lighting? Does it deter this type of stuff? I always thought it was a no brainer, more light = more crime. Criminals love being able to do shit in the dark when no one can see them. However I've been reading up on this and there appears to be a group of people who say lighting does deter crime and another group who says lights actually increase crime, the former group claims the latter group is just being manipulated by astronomers who want a nice, dark sky.

Anyone have any insight on this? Do you keep your house lit at night?

[subzero]

Well I asked a police officer and he said in this state we're not allowed to use any sort of physical contact in defense of property.

That's some bullshit. I'd be a law violating motherfucker when some asshole is trying to commit crimes on my property.

[Tgo01]

That's some bullshit. I'd be a law violating motherfucker when some asshole is trying to commit crimes on my property.

That's what I was thinking. He even said he felt it was unfair but that's just the way it works. He did say we can use force in defense of a person though so I would imagine if someone was actually in my home I could argue that I felt myself and my family were threatened, so I don't know. That doesn't do me much good about the problem with these little shits running around, heck maybe they know the law better than I do which is why they've been doing this for so long.

[Warriorbird]

That's what I was thinking. He even said he felt it was unfair but that's just the way it works. He did say we can use force in defense of a person though so I would imagine if someone was actually in my home I could argue that I felt myself and my family were threatened, so I don't know. That doesn't do me much good about the problem with these little shits running around, heck maybe they know the law better than I do which is why they've been doing this for so long.

Paintball "accidents" would occur if this were me.

[4a6c1]

Try this.

http://www.lighthouseinn-ct.com/lighthouse-pictures/tall-sky-blue-lighthouse-yard-ornament.jpg

If I was a criminal, I would avoid people with personal light houses.

[subzero]

Paintball "accidents" would occur if this were me.

I was going to suggest that earlier, but I imagine the welts those can leave behind might cause more of a problem added to the fact that you're using a weapon. If they were to throw shit at your house, though, I would say you could step outside and claim they were throwing shit at you. At that point, mutual combat can commence.

[Methais]

Invest in bear traps.

[Stanley Burrell]

Well I asked a police officer and he said in this state we're not allowed to use any sort of physical contact in defense of property. I asked him about the shitting idea and he said it's only legal if I bring a roll of toilet paper.

While I have everyone's attention what do you feel about lighting? Does it deter this type of stuff? I always thought it was a no brainer, more light = more crime. Criminals love being able to do shit in the dark when no one can see them. However I've been reading up on this and there appears to be a group of people who say lighting does deter crime and another group who says lights actually increase crime, the former group claims the latter group is just being manipulated by astronomers who want a nice, dark sky.

Anyone have any insight on this? Do you keep your house lit at night?

The first thing that would matter is whether or not the criminal(s) is/are professional. Lighting being a detterence or acting as synergy for a crimeset is extremely variable. Using true tactical analysis, you would maximize so much shit before narrowing it down, that it would be a real pain in the ass. You could go with something as an analogy; say, storefront casing. Lighting inside, visibility of a commercial target, beatclock + patrol within X radius ... then tie it into the vandalism. Look for tracks and patterns. And, again, maximize things to the point where you are literally seeing as to whether the litter factor, alone, of said vandalism is an indicator and why (who, what, when, where, how). I wouldn't go out of my way to make data sets for light in these instances. What I would do, taking the crux of this thread into notice, is create aggregation by having neighbors, passerbys and goddamn local flora hammering Dispatch. Except you'd want it on Officers' logs or codes that're going to be put into near-instant visibility at the Dept.

[Izalude]

Have you witnessed any of this vandalism first hand, or just seen the aftermath? Definitely write down their license plate next time you see them and pass it along to the police. If that doesn't work, then your only option is to take matters into your own hands using non-lethal/non-serious bodily harm revenge.

I personally probably wouldn't have involved the cops to begin with, and waited for them just to chase one of them down to subdue them. I would have had them believe I was some sort of psycho that was going to come after all of them for SERIOUS revenge. Since that's no longer an option being that the cops are already involved, and like usual, they don't appear to be doing anything about it, I think the paintball option would be best, especially if you had a friend or two in camo outside waiting for them with you. Make sure you're out there at least 2 nights in a row just to be safe... and make sure you repaint their car while you're at it.

[Tgo01]

Well I decided the best course of action is to be waiting for them in the squatting position so I waste no time in taking a shit. As soon as I see them approach I'm going to hit the flood lights which will light up my entire yard plus an accent light that will light up just me in a dark corner. Before they can even say "That guy is taking a shit!" I'm going to have two of my friends up on the roof start shooting them with paintball guns. As they start to flee they will all get their feet trapped in bear traps that suddenly appeared behind them. After I've finished wiping I'm going to release them from the bear traps and try to convince them that I'm crazy.

I'm figuring this has a 40, maybe 45% chance to work. Anyone better with numbers that can give me a more accurate estimate? I'm guessing the kids are between the ages of 15 and 17 if that will help at all.

[Showal]

Well I decided the best course of action is to be waiting for them in the squatting position so I waste no time in taking a shit. As soon as I see them approach I'm going to hit the flood lights which will light up my entire yard plus an accent light that will light up just me in a dark corner. Before they can even say "That guy is taking a shit!" I'm going to have two of my friends up on the roof start shooting them with paintball guns. As they start to flee they will all get their feet trapped in bear traps that suddenly appeared behind them. After I've finished wiping I'm going to release them from the bear traps and try to convince them that I'm crazy.

I'm figuring this has a 40, maybe 45% chance to work. Anyone better with numbers that can give me a more accurate estimate? I'm guessing the kids are between the ages of 15 and 17 if that will help at all.

"To work", please clarify. I disagree with your thought that it has a 40-45% chance of working, because this, without a doubt, will cause them to believe you're the crazy one (99% chance +/- %). If you mean it's success rate of actually going down like you're describing, I give it a 73.2% chance +/- 12.7%. Why the wide margin? There's truly a lot going on in this scenario and a lot of timing. However, this tactic, while very risky, has the possibility of being very effective.

Very effective.

I do think that the best place for you to be waiting in squat is on the roof of their car. This eliminates their ability to leave without seeing all that is about to take place. This location change would increase the chance of success.

[Warriorbird]

Well I decided the best course of action is to be waiting for them in the squatting position so I waste no time in taking a shit. As soon as I see them approach I'm going to hit the flood lights which will light up my entire yard plus an accent light that will light up just me in a dark corner. Before they can even say "That guy is taking a shit!" I'm going to have two of my friends up on the roof start shooting them with paintball guns. As they start to flee they will all get their feet trapped in bear traps that suddenly appeared behind them. After I've finished wiping I'm going to release them from the bear traps and try to convince them that I'm crazy.

I'm figuring this has a 40, maybe 45% chance to work. Anyone better with numbers that can give me a more accurate estimate? I'm guessing the kids are between the ages of 15 and 17 if that will help at all.

I love it when a plan comes together.

[Some Rogue]

33.33 repeating of course.

[AnticorRifling]

33.33 repeating of course.

LEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOOY!

[subzero]

Yes, the paintballers must shout Leeeeerooooy Jeeenkiins when they begin to unload. This should add an extra 'shock and awe' element to the surprise weltings.