Need some training help - Am I missing anything really important?

[masrulez]

I could use a little help with my Sorcie's training goals. Are there any skills that I don't have that I really need or would be very useful? Also, I more than 2X in spells. Do I have reasonable distribution, or should I be spending more points on minor spirit and minor elemental?

Thanks.

(at level 50), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 151 51
Arcane Symbols.....................| 151 51
Magic Item Use.....................| 151 51
Spell Aiming.......................| 202 102
Harness Power......................| 202 102
Elemental Mana Control.............| 151 51
Spirit Mana Control................| 151 51
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 151 51
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 5 1
Perception.........................| 151 51
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 30

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 25

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 55

[Beguiler]

Perhaps some summoning lore, if you wiish to cast Fire Spirit...

[masrulez]

Is there any use for MOC? Should I keep going in Demonology or switch over to Necro at this point. Thanks!

[msconstrew]

I wouldn't double Harness Power. If anything, I would reduce it down to 1x OR leave it where you have it and not train in it until you're the equivalent of 1x in it. Once you're capped, 2x HP can become one of those long-term goals. It's a big TP cost for the second train, for very little gain on the mana. I play a Dark Elf Voln Sorcerer (so no wracking) and by her 50s she was able to hunt and fry, mostly without the use of wands.

That will free up some TPs for you, and you could definitely get 5 ranks of MOC (helps raise your DS with multiple opponents in the room) or you could continue to overtrain in spells for additional CS.

As far as whether you train in ANY lores at all (demon or necro), that is solely up to you in terms of your character and your RP. My sorcerer is singled in demonology because I like to play with demons. I have a couple ranks of necro lore because I like to blood burst things occasionally and get HPs back if she is getting hit. So that's entirely up to you. However, I would keep my demonology lores since they affect not only 725 but also success rates on 740.

[masrulez]

Thanks. That is very helpful. When should I start uping minor elemental and minor spiritual? Should I keep pouring all my spell research into 700s or occaisionally throw something into 100/400?

On lores, I tend to agree with you. I only have the 1 rank in necro for 701.

[msconstrew]

Well, you only have 430 and 125 right now. Obviously you'll want to get to 435 (Major Ewave) and 140 (Wall of Force) before you even consider not training in those circles. I would recommend 1x Sorcerer, 1x MnE or MnS, and if you can triple train then do another Sorcerer spell training because it improves your CS more than the others. This is one of those YMMV things, because if I was at 138 and could triple my way up to 140, I would probably do it for that particular training.

However, don't forget that the MnE circle will increase your CS through the use of 425 and will also increase your TD through the use of 430. I would have to look at it, but I believe that the CS benefit in 425 stops somewhere in the 70s. In addition, continuing to train in MnS will improve your DS through 102 and several others. So it's important to continue training in those circles even if you don't see a concrete benefit in the form of another spell you can use and you should be training in them more than "occasionally".

[Jeril]

If you are looking at most CS per spell, you want to be +21 over level in sorcerer spells, then 2/3 level in MnE before training up more sorcerer spells. As MsConstrew said training in the 100s beyond 140 will continue to give you addition DS from 102 and 120 which can also be useful as well, more likely depends on your scroll collection and how into that you are though. With enough outside spells from scrolls you wouldn't have to worry about having more DS from those two spells. For CS casters I am also more a fan of having spell ranks over harness power, you spend less time hunting that way because you'll connect with your spells more often but either way works really.

[masrulez]

Thanks. I think I am going to try and drop 1 HP rank down to 50 ranks and stop until cap. I'll see if I can grab 5 ranks of MOC and then keep my 700s at least at 1X and dump some extra points into 100s and 400s. I'll see if I can get my 700s to +21 ranks over time, but the MOC ranks are really expensive for sorcies! I greatly appreciate all the advice.

[Sorcasaurus]

Do you find youself using bolt spells very often? Outside of increasing the ball effect I don't see the MoC being all that useful yet. I believe the 5 MoC mark is for your first mstrike, and 10 is the first FoF reduction (pulled from Krakki (http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Moc)). Your problem with crowds is likely not going to be DS pushdown as a sorc.

Sink those points into more spells and enjoy the extra CS. Get as close as you can to +21 ranks in Sorc, if you go from your 5 ranks over to 21 ranks over it's another 12 CS. :wow2:


Edit: Tonight when I am not posting from work I'll put the effort in to check TPs and what not from cutting back on HP.

[masrulez]

Thanks, Sorca. I agree with you that the MOC isn't worth it after researching it. The question is, how much to cut back HP? If I cut it in half I lose 50 mana, which slightly less than 25% of my total mana. I can wrack and I have 10 spirit, but wracking twice in battle is always a dangerous proposition. Will I gain enough DS from dumping some extra points into the 100s that I can feel comfortable not using Sign of Shields, thus enabling me to wrack twice without fearing spirit death? That would solve the mana problem. (i.e. spend all mana, wrack, wait until spirit regains to 6, wrack again).

Your thoughts are appreciated.

[Sorcasaurus]

It really depends on what, and how, you're hunting. Are you using bolt spells or focused implode? If not then all those points in spell aiming aren't helping you too much. Personally, I don't yet use the targeted implode(open cast implode still rocks though). I'm leaving spell aiming for later and using those points to help get my CS as high as possible. For the mobs I usually hunt or have bounties for, a few trains above me, I rarely miss a cast.

Are you using sacrifice at all? It might help give you that extra bit of mana you're looking for and give you more time to regen spirit, or possibly not need a second wrack.

Also, as Jeril said above, if you're putting it into spell ranks, you should see a significant boost in CS. That should reduce the number of casts you need to kill, and help ease the strain on your mana pool.

So for now, what do you hunt, how do you kill it, and what method do you enjoy most for doing it? From there there are several options for tweaking your training.

[masrulez]

I've been hunting in Darkstone (Banshees and Sentinels) and also Stone Giants and Trolls. I use focus implode some as well as dark catalyst. I've found Dark Catalyst is super useful against the giants and trolls. 702 is my go-to espcially to finish critters off. I use 705 if I have lots of mana to spare and I'm in the mood, but I prefer 702. I'm a huge fan of 719. I like 711 a lot, but I'm not clear if I am getting maximum efficiency with it.

I almost never sacrifice. I keep wands if I run out of mana.

For hunting, I basically use 702, 705, 711, 719 and 720. I start out with 711 or 719 and then finish with 702 and 705. I almost always channel 702 and 705.

I use focused 720 when I am in a rush or need to get out of there. I sometimes use open 720, but only when there are 3 or more attacking me.

[Akaylas]

Just a couple observations...

I would go with the route of stop training HP until you hit 1x. Cutting ranks may result in you feeling a little tight on mana simply because of downsizing, while just stopping training will give you some extra TPs per level. If you want to drop some ranks, here's my experience: I was 2x up until about 45 (88 ranks). I stopped training, and around level 70 I didn't have to wrack most hunts.

Reiterating what everyone else said about spells. I would try to 1x mns / 1x sorc with triples going into sorc until you're at +21 sorc and 140, then switch to mne until you're 2/3rds level in mne and +21 over in sorc.

Spell Aiming is always worth keeping for a couple reasons even if you don't bolt. Notably aiming 708 and focused 720. 713/111/118 are nice, but 720 is sort of the great equalizer for sorcerers, and aiming 708 is the tits for disabling, especially when combined with CoS Retribution.

719 will always be a staple against anything that can cast spells (Semis or pures). Stone Giants/Trolls, Illoke Mystics/Shamans, Sheruvian Harbingers, Emaciated Hierophants, Hunch-Backed Dogmatists, etc.

If you can aim 708 well, 708 right arm is the supreme disabler. No attacks, no CMans, no casting.

705 is only useful if the monster is stunned and you can go into Stance Offensive and channel it with reliable 150+ endrolls. At that point, you start seeing a lot of 100-250 point hits. Barring that, 702 is more efficient, and 711 is faster.

As far as lores, there's a lot of RP motivation, but there is some mechanical motivation.
52 ranks gets you the following:
**** phase 26 pound boxes,
**** .0502 DF bonus for Balefire, barely hitting DR
**** 5% (minimum?) failure on interrealm 740
**** No-Fail Valence Specific Demon Summoning

63 ranks of demonology gets you the above and:
**** phase 28 pound boxes
**** .0513 DF bonus for Balefire

So, that's kind of a thing. Honestly, I'd love 76 ranks of demonology for 30 pound boxes, but that's probably a post-cap thing.

711 is a great spell with enough Necro lore. With enough lore, you can get the 35% / 7 second endroll threshold down to 141. Without it, it's a little unwieldy and requires some pretty high endrolls. This spell is most useful against monsters that shake stuns / can't be stunned and can't be limb disrupted reliably, and then, only with sufficient lore training. For your training, 711 is actually terrible. Check out the wiki. If it's still up to date, you can't even force roundtime with it. http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/711

Don't worry about the MOC if you don't bolt. I have 40 ranks of Spiritual Lore, Summoning with 2x Spell Aim, I ended up dropping my ranks.

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So, all in all, I'd keep training spells, and then decide if you want to stop demonology at 52 or 63, and then pick up necromancy. Drop maybe 25 ranks of HP and then stop training in it to get back some points.