US Makes Amnesty International’s 2005 Report

[Back]

US listing in Amnesty International’s 2005 report (http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/usa-summary-eng). And lets drop the Disnefied term “abuse” and call it what it really is. Torture.

Guantánamo and Abu Garib are what scares people about the Patriot Act, Real ID, and giving the Homeland Security people our rights to privacy. People being put in jail and tortured without trial or representation. And we all know how accurate the CIA and FBI’s intelligence is.

[Parkbandit]

LMFAO. I saw this report on the news a few days ago and thought of you Backlash. Wonder why it took you so long to put it up.

I actually agree that we need to do something about the prisoners we have in Guantánamo. I think they should stand trial and either be set free, jailed with specific charges or executed.

[Blazing247]

Move out of the country. I hear Africa is great this time of year.

In all seriousness, hearing someone bitch and raise conspiracy theories seven days a week about a country they VOLUNTARILY live in pisses me the fuck off. It's kinda like making yourself a shit sandwich, and then complaining about how it tastes. Move.

[Back]

To the media’s credit, it was reported earlier this week. I think it was Monday or Tuesday.

Look up the UK, the biggest dupe in the Coalition of the Coerced.

“The UK’s highest court ruled that indefinite detention without trial of non-deportable foreign “suspected international terrorists” discriminated against them unjustifiably and was unlawful. Another court held that “evidence” obtained by torture of a third party would be inadmissible only if it had been directly procured by UK agents or if they had connived in its procurement. The authorities sought to circumvent their obligations under international and domestic human rights law in respect of the conduct of UK armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. Self-inflicted deaths, self-harm, overcrowding and detention conditions in prisons were of major concern. Public inquiries into cases of alleged collusion by security forces in killings in Northern Ireland were announced. However, the authorities further delayed the establishment of an inquiry into the killing of Patrick Finucane.”

Pretty embarrassing for the US.

[Blazing247]

Oh, and about the abuse, I'm not so sure I agree with it, but if it saves a life with the information they gain from it, so be it. They would hold no quarter for us, either.

[Back]

Originally posted by Blazing247
Move out of the country. I hear Africa is great this time of year.

In all seriousness, hearing someone bitch and raise conspiracy theories seven days a week about a country they VOLUNTARILY live in pisses me the fuck off. It's kinda like making yourself a shit sandwich, and then complaining about how it tastes. Move.

Actually, I think you and people like you should get the fuck out and quit giving this country a bad name, bitch.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Blazing247
Move out of the country. I hear Africa is great this time of year.

In all seriousness, hearing someone bitch and raise conspiracy theories seven days a week about a country they VOLUNTARILY live in pisses me the fuck off. It's kinda like making yourself a shit sandwich, and then complaining about how it tastes. Move.

If I really thought the government was out to get me in all the ways Backlash posts here.. I certainly would have moved a LONG time ago. Why would you stay in a place like that?

I don't mind questioning the government in the country in which you reside.. but to come up with all the bullshit theories that have so little fact to back them up JUST to bash the current administration makes me believe the individual is a fucking wacko who probably has tin foil on his head right now to prevent the FBI and CIA from wiping out his mind with their new MIND ERASER RAY!

[Warriorbird]

Shockingly enough, part of democracy is based on dissent, Blazing.

If you object, rumour has it that North Korea is looking for immigrants.

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I don't mind questioning the government in the country in which you reside.. but to come up with all the bullshit theories that have so little fact to back them up JUST to bash the current administration makes me believe the individual is a fucking wacko who probably has tin foil on his head right now to prevent the FBI and CIA from wiping out his mind with their new MIND ERASER RAY!

Heh, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone from Amnesty International wearing tinfoil hats. In fact, the only people I see waving around absurd claims is the current administration. AND those absurd claims are backed by the mysterious and magical thing called religion.

Its not a conspiracy when its happening right in front of your fucking face.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I don't mind questioning the government in the country in which you reside.. but to come up with all the bullshit theories that have so little fact to back them up JUST to bash the current administration makes me believe the individual is a fucking wacko who probably has tin foil on his head right now to prevent the FBI and CIA from wiping out his mind with their new MIND ERASER RAY!

Heh, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone from Amnesty International wearing tinfoil hats. In fact, the only people I see waving around absurd claims is the current administration. AND those absurd claims are backed by the mysterious and magical thing called religion.

Its not a conspiracy when its happening right in front of your fucking face.

So you got out of my post that I was talking about AI and not you. Sorry I wasn't more clear.. tinfoil boy.

:P

[Back]

No no, I knew what you said was aimed at me. And it was funny, But when you start pulling diversion tactics like that, I have to call you on them. My argument being guilty by association. Association with a world renowned human rights advocate, which is the safest bet, sure, but none-the-less valid.

You really need to use your spin powers for good. Get out of the park and go run for mayor of your town.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
No no, I knew what you said was aimed at me. And it was funny, But when you start pulling diversion tactics like that, I have to call you on them. My argument being guilty by association. Association with a world renowned human rights advocate, which is the safest bet, sure, but none-the-less valid.

You really need to use your spin powers for good. Get out of the park and go run for mayor of your town.

Spin much?

Amnesty International is a very VERY left wing organization. They condemn the US for having capital punishment for crying out loud.

"World renowned" is a label I wouldn't use with Amnesty International. They have their own agenda as much as the Evil Empire under George Bush does.

[Warriorbird]

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/FASCISM_NOT_US.jpg

[Back]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Spin much?

Amnesty International is a very VERY left wing organization. They condemn the US for having capital punishment for crying out loud.

"World renowned" is a label I wouldn't use with Amnesty International. They have their own agenda as much as the Evil Empire under George Bush does.

Classic.

Left = EVIL OH NOEZ

Think about that for a second or two. You want to label people who genuinely want good things for not just themselves and their neighbors, but the environment we exist in, as the “problem with America?” Do you really like couches on front porches?

Next, just having an agenda does not mean its right. The KKK has an agenda. The old if-they-can-do-it-we-can-too argument. Thats bottom of the barrel, man.

[Latrinsorm]

Traditionally, when you put words inside quotation marks, someone is supposed to say them before you did.

I'm still at a loss to where this "right to privacy" business came from. Torture is wrong, sure. I don't follow how the Real ID is a passport to torture though.

[Warriorbird]

"I'm still at a loss to where this "right to privacy" business came from. Torture is wrong, sure."

= I'm a shill for Guantanamo!

Did you even read the link?

Talk about focusing on something unrelated.

[Edited on 5-28-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Blazing247]

<Shockingly enough, part of democracy is based on dissent, Blazing. >

And dissent - action = Backlash. He's fucking annoying, and while I ignore 99 percent of his posts, this one piqued my interest. It's all fine and dandy to disagree with things, but it's almost as if he sits there 24 hours a day waiting to find some news link so he can go "AHA, I told you they were fucking corrupt". Get over it.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/FASCISM_NOT_US.jpg


Originally posted by Warriorbird
Talk about focusing on something unrelated.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
I'm still at a loss to where this "right to privacy" business came from. Torture is wrong, sure. I don't follow how the Real ID is a passport to torture though.

WE ARE BEING TORTURED BECAUSE OUR RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS ARE BEING STOLEN FROM US!!!! YOU MIGHT JUST AS WELL SHOVE A BAMBOO SHOOT UNDER MY GOD DAMN NAILS!!

OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Did you even read the link?
Originally posted by Amnesty International
Evidence came to light that the US administration had sanctioned interrogation techniques that violated the UN Convention against Torture.
Torture and ill-treatment of detainees outside the USAYes, torture is obviously not related at all to what they're talking about. Wherever did I get that idea.

If you're talking about the privacy thing, I was responding to an earlier post. That's how it works. People say things, then other people respond to them. Check it out, I'm going to do it again:
Originally posted by Parkbandit
GOD :O

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Originally posted by Parkbandit
GOD :O

Being a Republican doesn't always mean you have to believe in God and that if you use His name with the word Damn after it you are going to go to hell automatically.

[Warriorbird]

Hmm. Fascism and torture unrelated? Perhaps.

Torture and the id card system unrelated?

We have a winner!

[Edited on 5-28-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Hmm. Fascism and torture unrelated? Perhaps.

Torture and the id card system unrelated?

We have a winner!

[Edited on 5-28-2005 by Warriorbird]

Then the real "winner" is Backlash, who believes the two are intertwined:


Originally posted by Backlash
US listing in Amnesty International’s 2005 report (http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/usa-summary-eng). And lets drop the Disnefied term “abuse” and call it what it really is. Torture.

Guantánamo and Abu Garib are what scares people about the Patriot Act, Real ID, and giving the Homeland Security people our rights to privacy. People being put in jail and tortured without trial or representation. And we all know how accurate the CIA and FBI’s intelligence is.

[Warriorbird]

I dunno. On the edge or not, the personal freedom removal acts probably would be a lot less frightening to the small portion of the country they frighten if we didn't have abuses of human rights to compound them. Seemed pretty dead on to me.

Then to derail things, because he likes making excuses for the behavior that results through the actions of the administration, Latrinsorm pinpoints a small portion and tries to make it out as the whole argument. It wasn't.

I tend to take Amnesty International more seriously than I do Backlash. You don't, Parkbandit. I posted the image in response to your dismissal of it. Thus making the image pretty related. If they do it, it's terrible. If we do it, it's not a problem.

It's certainly okay to you if American client states do Fascist nonsense or our allies or our trading partners...but if we violate human rights it clearly doesn't mean we have a problem, or "they had it coming!", or that damn prejudiced UN shouldn't be able to convict Americans. It's nonsense, Parkbandit. Emo conservative tomfoolery to shill for the "culture of life." which is anything but.





[Edited on 5-28-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I dunno. On the edge or not, the personal freedom removal acts probably would be a lot less frightening to the small portion of the country they frighten if we didn't have abuses of human rights to compound them. Seemed pretty dead on to me.

Then to derail things, because he likes making excuses for the behavior that results through the actions of the administration, Latrinsorm pinpoints a small portion and tries to make it out as the whole argument. It wasn't.

I tend to take Amnesty International more seriously than I do Backlash. You don't, Parkbandit. I posted the image in response to your dismissal of it. Thus making the image pretty related. If they do it, it's terrible. If we do it, it's not a problem.

It's certainly okay to you if American client states do Fascist nonsense or our allies or our trading partners...but if we violate human rights it clearly doesn't mean we have a problem, or "they had it coming!", or that damn prejudiced UN shouldn't be able to convict Americans. It's nonsense, Parkbandit. Emo conservative tomfoolery to shill for the "culture of life." which is anything but.



There was far more public outcry over the "torture" of the poor innocent "victims" of Abu Garib then there was the video tapings of Americans getting their heads sawed off with a dull knife on this board. How many threads brought up all the "atrocities" of Abu Garib.. I don't remember one thread brought up about the American truckers who were killed, dragged through the street and hung up on a bridge.

So you will excuse my yawn and rolling eyes when I hear about how fucking bad America is.

And I thought the thread was about America's "human rights" violations.. when did we become responsible for our trading partners? So now we should be blamed for any country we do trade with that has a blemish on their human rights sheet with AI?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Edited on 5-28-05 by Parkbandit]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I tend to take Amnesty International more seriously than I do Backlash. You don't, Parkbandit.

I take almost everything more seriously than Backlash. He's nothing more than amusing to me... in a sad way.

[Back]

Kill the messenger. Thats how its done these days, Newsweek knows. I’d never recommend taking me seriously. Seriously? Lol.

That photo makes me want a cappuccino..

[Warriorbird]

"There was far more public outcry over the "torture" of the poor innocent "victims" of Abu Garib then there was the video tapings of Americans getting their heads sawed off with a dull knife on this board"

Because, of course...we should torture people because they beheaded them. Shows our oneupmanship.

[Warriorbird]

"when did we become responsible for our trading partners?"

Of course we're not responsible for what they do. With that said, we have the simple choice to not trade with them. Sadly, however, both parties suck up to China and other morally bankrupt countries, yet blow their own horns about morality.

[Warriorbird]

http://oldamericancentury.org/LIB_GAS.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Being a Republican doesn't always mean you have to believe in God and that if you use His name with the word Damn after it you are going to go to hell automatically. Oh that wasn't what I was surprised about. I thought it was against the rules to invoke the blessing (or anti-blessing) of a being one doesn't believe in.
Originally posted by Warriorbird
Then to derail things, because he likes making excuses for the behavior that results through the actions of the administration,Sure.
Latrinsorm pinpoints a small portion and tries to make it out as the whole argument.Let's break down what I said...
Traditionally, when you put words inside quotation marks, someone is supposed to say them before you did. Helpful suggestion. :saint:
I'm still at a loss to where this "right to privacy" business came from. ... I don't follow how the Real ID is a passport to torture though.Backlash said Guantanamo is what scares people about the Patriot Act (makes sense) and the Real ID (doesn't). I'm sorry all of my posts can't be about only your points, I guess, but your portrayal of my motives and implications is way off (not that this is anything new).

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Backlash said Guantanamo is what scares people about the Patriot Act (makes sense)



I dont see how these coincide.

[Edited on 5-29-2005 by Dave]

[Slider]

OK..let me get this straight WB...we should just "not trade with" those countries that make AI's list of "bad countries" in the world, right?

alright then, lets take a look at this list, shall we? I mean, how many countries can there be on this list? Surely it must be a small number that fail to live up to AI's standards of Human Rights and equality in this world, and surely the U.S. can afford to "just not trade with" these countries, right?

So...here is the list, copied from AI's very own web sight, of countries that deserve an official "Bad Guy" rating from AI.

Africa

Central Africa
Burundi
Cameroon
Central African Republic
Chad
Congo
Democratic Republic of Congo
Equatorial Guinea
Rwanda

Southern Africa
Angola
Malawi
Mozambique
Namibia
South Africa
Swaziland
Zambia
Zimbabwe
East Africa
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Kenya
Somalia
Sudan
Tanzania
Uganda

West Africa
Burkina Faso
Cote D'ivoire
Ghana
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Liberia
Mauritania
Niger
Nigeria
Senegal
Sierra Leone
Togo


Back to top ^^


Americas

Central America
El Salvador
Guatemala
Honduras
Mexico
Nicaragua

South America
Argentina
Bolivia
Brazil
Chile
Colombia
Ecuador
Guyana
Paraguay
Peru
Uruguay
Venezuela
North America
Canada
USA

Caribbean
Bahamas
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Haiti
Jamaica
Trinidad & Tobago


Back to top ^^


Asia and the Pacific

East Asia
China
Japan
Mongolia
North Korea
South Korea
Taiwan

South-East Asia
Brunei Darussalam
Cambodia
Indonesia
Laos
Malaysia
Myanmar
Philippines
Singapore
Thailand
Timor-Leste
Viet Nam
South Asia
Afghanistan
Bangladesh
Bhutan
India
Maldives
Nepal
Pakistan
Sri Lanka

Pacific
Australia
Fiji
New Zealand
Papua New Guinea
Solomon Islands


Back to top ^^


Europe and Central Asia

Eastern Europe
Czech Republic
Hungary
Poland
Romania
Slovak Republic

Baltic States
Estonia
Latvia
Lithuania

Western Europe
Austria
Belgium
Finland
France
Germany
Ireland
Italy
Portugal
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
UK
Commonwealth Of Independent States
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Georgia
Kazakstan
Kyrgyzstan
Moldova
Russian Federation
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uzbekistan

South-East Europe
Albania
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus
Greece
Macedonia
Malta
Serbia and Montenegro
Slovenia
Turkey


Back to top ^^


Middle East and North Africa

Middle East
Bahrain
Iran
Iraq
Israel/Occupied Territories
Jordan
Kuwait
Lebanon
Palestinian Authority
Saudi Arabia
Syria
UAE
Yemen
North Africa
Algeria
Egypt
Libya
Morocco/Western Sahara
Tunisia

well shit....WTF? Did they leave anyone out? Does anyone in the fucking world live up to AI's exacting standards for Human Rights? I mean...Switzerland? Oh, and look....Canada even made the list for being "evil" in the eyes of AI. Holy shit...that bastion of Liberal Goodness France even made the list.....

So tell me WB....according to you....we are supposed to use this list to determine who we trade with, correct? So tell me....who does that leave for us to export to? Mars? Alpha Centauri maybe...Maybe the lil green men will meet AI's standards.......

[DeV]

I think we can all agree that most if not all of the countries listed belong on that list. Nothing wrong with bringing the shit to light. It sparks debate and somewhat "controversy" and that's kinda the purpose, is it not...

[Warriorbird]

That really isn't what I suggested at all, Slider. But thanks for wasting a post.

:)

My definition of morally bankrupt does not match up exactly to Amnesty International's.

Shocking. Independent thought.

Let's ban it!

[Edited on 5-29-2005 by Warriorbird]

Yeah putting just about every country on the list really makes sense. It really will make people come down hard on the countries on the list. I mean the atrocities that Canada commits every year are right up there on par with the ones North Korea does. We should invade them both.

[Warriorbird]

Of course most intelligent people don't put them on the same level. That isn't a reason to say, "It's okay that we abuse human rights!" however.

Conservatives ought to love Amnesty International, though. A lot of those countries are on there for supporting the death penalty (which I, unlike Amnesty International, believe in.) and conservatives should be right along with them on that. Culture of life, baby! Preserve life!



[Edited on 5-29-2005 by Warriorbird]

Warriorbird, there is a difference between an innocent life and a evil one.

[Warriorbird]

In one of two testaments there is. Curiously enough that one's shared with other religions.

I believe in the death penalty myself.



[Edited on 5-29-2005 by Warriorbird]

Your point?
Do you really think that every "conservative" is some uber religious fanatic?
I know I don't think that every liberal is a free loading socialist.


You hold so many prejudices towards anyone that does not hold your same political views its unbelievable.

[Slider]

WB, I was merely making a point, and thanks, but I think I'll be the one to decide if I "waste a post" okay?

You said, and I quote; "Of course we're not responsible for what they do. With that said, we have the simple choice to not trade with them"

I merely pointed out that "simply not trading with them" was a pretty moronic thing to say. Tell me, how are we supposed to make up the loss of billions of dollars of money every year, the US jobs lost to other countries, and the imports from these countries if we do that? The economic impact of your simplistic approach is devestating to the US.

As far as independent thought goes, hell, I'm all for it...if it IS thought...and not merely knee-jerk reaction. All to often your idea of "thought" is "anything that makes Bush/the US look bad" is true, and anything else is merely "emo conservative bullshit", is how you put it if I recall correctly. (Oh and WTF is emo?!?!?!)

[Back]

You know, people claim I post things like this just to make the administration look bad. Thats a fucking laugh. This administration is doing it without any help from me, especially considering I did not vote them in. Read the Senate reports. Go to Google news and read the top stories from around the globe. You can even figure it out from watching Fox for fuck sake.

Its time to call bullshit on this whole “we are saving the Iraqis thing.” What is the rationale behind claiming to be the great Iraqi liberator then slamming Amnesty International?

[Ebondale]

Glad to see that Tibet isn't on that list of dangerous countries.

[Warriorbird]

It still eludes your grasp that I don't think that entire list of countries is "bad." Slider.

And the whole "anything that makes Bush/the US" looks bad is a ridiculous line. I love my country. I quite frankly don't post at nearly every "opportunity" I have to. If I wanted to, I could probably put up five posts a day to "make Bush look bad." I don't.

"Emo" conservatism is the whole "we have it so bad being conservative." shtick. These "liberals oppress us!" Look at the "lies they make up!" Waah. When the shoe's on the other foot and Democrats are partially in power, it is twice as bad. When the shoe ISN'T it is twice as bad. The conservative party is far better at spinning. That's one of the reasons I knew Kerry was going to lose long before he did.. The Lee Atwater/Karl Rove school is brilliant at what they do. (Look, I just praised conservatives!)

The China situation certainly IS thought from my part, quite frankly. I spent most of two semesters of college in courses related. The Democrats (and certainly Al Gore, gods, he got up to some ridiculous stuff RE China) support trading with them.

But of course, I "can't think independently" because I'm not a Republican. Emo conservatism at its finest.

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/images/BE_MUM.jpg

[Warriorbird]

"Glad to see that Tibet isn't on that list of dangerous countries."

If you actually take a look at that list (like actually clicking on a country), quite a few of the reasons make sense, even if I don't agree with them all.

[Edited on 5-29-2005 by Warriorbird]