740 Updated

[Gelston]

Planar Shift (740) has received a number of updates:

1) Interrealm chalk price has been reduced from 50,000 silver to 30,000 silver.

2) Fumbling a cast of 740 will no longer result in the removal of the summoning circle.

3) The success formula for intrarealm travel now adds Sorcerous Lore, Demonology as a factor. This is strictly a bonus as the other factors in the formula have not changed their weighting in any way.

4) The success formula for intrarealm travel has had its 95% success rate cap increased to 99%. Players may still use expensive chalk for guaranteed success with intrarealm travel.

5) The success formula for interrealm travel is now identical to that of intrarealm travel. The net result is nearly all players with less than 108 ranks of Sorcerous Lore, Demonology will see their success rate with interrealm travel increase. Those with 120 ranks or more will now have a 1% fumble chance, but there is no longer a loss of the summoning circle and the critical wound dealt has been reduced significantly in severity from the previous (nearly) guaranteed fatal blow.

6) Sorcerers with at least 40 ranks in Sorcerous Lore, Demonology can attempt to intrarealm travel without a summoning circle. Simply INCANTing 740 will (attempt to) teleport the caster to where they last Planar Shifted from. Using demonic rifts without the protection of a summoning circle is incredibly risky, however, and requires twice as much skill to reduce the chance of failure as it takes with a summoning circle. The maximum success rate for intrarealm travel without a circle is 98%.

7) Due to the overall reduction in failure chance, the chance that a failure will result in unleashing an enraged demon has been increased, since when that happens, it's pretty sweet. A failed cast when no summoning circle is used has an even greater chance of summoning an enraged demon than when a summoning circle is used.

GameMaster Oscuro

This message was originally posted in Sorcerers, Sorcerer Spells. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/235/2628/view/1077

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Using SENSE PATTERN when not holding a rune book will now reset a Sorcerer's bound room for circle-less teleportation to their current room. The bound room is still set to any departure point when using 740. This means INCANT 740 (with at least 40 ranks of Demonology lore) now functions almost identically to a gold ring, where INCANTing 740 is the analog of WEARing a gold ring and SENSE PATTERN is the analog of TURNing a gold ring.

GameMaster Oscuro

This message was originally posted in Sorcerers, Sorcerer Spells. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/235/2628/view/1136

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Sorcerers with at least 40 ranks of Sorcerous Lore, Demonology may now use the circle-less version of Planar Shift (740) with the retribution effect of Cloak of Shadows (712). Simply CHANT RETRIBUTION 740. As with other target-less spells, such as Spirit Guide (130), the cloak will lash out at the caster after the Planar Shift effect occurs.

GameMaster Oscuro

This message was originally posted in Sorcerers, Sorcerer Spells. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/235/2628/view/1187
(http://forums.play.net/forums/19/235/2628/view/1077)

[Makkah]

The demon thing is awesome. Wanna see that happen more.

[Reliel]

I want to see demons.

Get on it folks.

[Kastrel]

There is a contradiction in his post where he says that circle-less travel failure has an INCREASED chance of summoning demons, which could only be summoned through INTER-REALM failures before. He also says that circle-less travel can only be used intra-realm.

This either means that A) He mispoke and chalk-less travel between realms is possible (AKA AWESOME) or B) There has been a change and intra-realm failures can now summon demons (which means with the aid of a unstunner, and the reduced damage of intra-realm failures, deliberate summoning is possible). Either way, the contradiction implies cool things. We either can zip around the world for free with a 2% failure rate OR we can deliberately summon demons without a 70% chance of insta-death due to backlash. Its a win-win.

[Tgo01]

Damn what's with all of the awesome changes lately? I guess Simutronics finally realized that people won't continue to pay for an "ever changing" online game when nothing ever gets changed.

[Fallen]

Nice stuff. No multi-person near-realm travel but still nice. Love the no chalk thing.

[Kastrel]

Relevant Posts:
Post 1:


"Um. . . missed the animates and 3 damage / slay spell umphs, though. ;)" - Doug

"Did I say we were done? ;)" - GameMaster Oscuro


Post 2:


"What I WASN'T expecting was the "failure isn't a loss of the circle" effect. How long is the time until the circle disappears naturally?" - Me

"I believe it's 3 minutes. Not sure offhand, though." - Oscuro

"So this "chalkless travel" is basically like using a gold ring? Thats pretty awesome." - Me

"Yeah, that's what we called it in the design discussions. The "gold ring" version." - Oscuro

"Wait, on part 7: A failed cast when no summoning circle is used has an even greater chance of summoning an enraged demon than when a summoning circle is used. In part 6, you say that circle-less travel is used for intra-realm travel. Does this means that you can now summon demons through intra-realm failures?" - Me

"Yes." - Oscuro

"Does this apply to ALL casts, or just circle-less intra-realm casts?" - Me

"All. Circle-less travel is more likely to summon demons, though. "- Oscuro

"Or should I take this to mean that you can now travel interrealm without chalk?"

"I wouldn't suggest it." - Oscuro

"Basically, there seems to be a contradiction here, and I'd like to find out which it is (demons for intra-realm or no chalk for interrealm)."

"No contradiction. You have a chance to get demons with any type of failure now." - Oscuro

[drigore]

Getting closer to opening my account again. Sweet change overall.

[Kastrel]

If your account is currently deactivated, you likely didn't see the utter shitstorm Virilneus and I raised a few weeks ago. It started with 740 (because Premium characters now get a 50k travel once per month, with prices going up 50k for each, so we claimed it stomped all over 740), and ultimately grew to address the fact that 702 and 705 are the only direct damage spells in the game under level 10 without a lore/skill implementation except for Minor Acid and Elemental Blast, meaning we have 3 of the 4. This also accounts for our entire level 2-9 attack spell range, meaning we cannot "train" for damage dealing like the other classes can, and even Blood Burst doesn't get STRONGER with lore, just better.

The rant was long enough and significant enough that, with enough comparisons to like level spells (Smite/Bane for MD and Bone Shatter for Disintegrate) fortunately, Estild and Oscuro basically chimed in and said that while they didn't think 702 and 705 were underpowered (BS in my book) that they DID need a lore/skill implementation of some sort to increase their effectiveness. I am not the only one expecting that something along these lines is what they mean when Oscuro says they aren't done yet.

There was other nonsense, including ranting about 730's need for components and its lack of use, 725's excessive difficulty to use, and a variety of other junk like accusing 710 of being non-sorcerous and 701/708 of needing extreme upper endroll (read 200+) improvements. I don't expect to see any of that changed. But these were amongst the two or three dozen issues we raised. Hopefully the 702/705 issue is next up, and if there is even a SLIGHT improvement from Lore, I know it will improve my game. (as I'm about .95x in each)

[Wyrmx]

Great changes - Simu is starting to scare me...

[audioserf]

This looks great. I hope they keep the good stuff coming. The game could use this shot in the arm. If they're not going to advertise, then keep existing players happy, and get them using word-of-mouth to bring old players back.

[Gelston]

They seem to be getting a little more aggressive with updates and even trying to get people back... I recently got an e-mail for one of my old closed accounts asking me to come back.

[Kronius]

If there ever was an untapped niche market to bring back old players, it would be the previous players of Sorcerers.

[Kastrel]

More Relevant Posts



First, you said inter-realm failure now has a reduced crit rate. Has this changed intra-realm failure damage? And where does circle-less intra-realm fall in that? In between? - ME
No. Interrealm failure crit damage is now the same as intrarealm, which is the same as circle-less. Circleless just has it happen more often. The crits can certainly still hurt, maim or kill, it's just that interrealm travel failures basically auto-killed you. That won't happen now. - Oscuro


Second, for a sorcerer with baseline training with no Demonology, how high a level would you expect to see 98% proficiency with circleless travel? - Me
Never. It requires at least 40 ranks of demonology lore per the announcement. - Oscuro (was I the only person who missed that?)


How about 1x Demonology? Probably a little too indepth, but it NEVER HURTS TO ASK! - Me
Probably level 75ish. YYMV. - Oscuro


Addressing Virilneus' Concerns:
Concern: "Premium transport is 100% guaranteed success while there was an inherent 10% failure for crossrealm transport unless you had serious training in demonology, and you fail intrarealm teleports 5% of the time regardless of demonology training." Solution: This has now been severly reduced. Basically 1x demonology sorcerers get the 99% success at level 40 and non-demonology get it by around level 60. The only people who saw a reduction in success are the non-demonologists (who aren't making up the training with extra spell ranks or something) just past 40 and people with >= 120 ranks of demonology at any level. However, the failures for crossrealm are far less severe. You don't lose your money now because the circle doesn't disappear, so the failure is basically just a wound and a short stun, with a small chance of summoning a demon. The main reason why failures weren't outright removed was because so many people love the demon summoning aspect of the spell, and we didn't want to take that away.

Finally, to address your "And ya, Demons are cool, but you basically just made us more likely to be arrested," concern: Demons used to have such a small chance of being summoned from interrealm travel that it only happened about 3 times since the spell was released. A lot of time was put into that aspect of the spell, so I thought it should be increased. The chances went from minuscule to extremely rare. - Oscuro


For those of us who are forgetful, it would be nice to have a way to check the location of our last planar shift. That would prevent a lot of accidental circle-less cross-realms accidents. Perhaps whispering to our room book without specifying a pattern number could provide that information. - Kardios
You just get an error message if your last departure point is in another realm. - Oscuro

[msconstrew]

Finally, to address your "And ya, Demons are cool, but you basically just made us more likely to be arrested," concern: Demons used to have such a small chance of being summoned from interrealm travel that it only happened about 3 times since the spell was released. A lot of time was put into that aspect of the spell, so I thought it should be increased. The chances went from minuscule to extremely rare.

Is he referring to the major failures on 740? He's got to be exaggerating - I've major failed on 740 twice and released demons (one in IMT and one on Teras) both times. It has definitely happened significantly more than three times. But whatever; I think the possibility of more major failures is pretty damn cool.

[Kronius]

I WANT to Major Failure... I should fixskills OUT of demonology

[Gelston]

Is he referring to the major failures on 740? He's got to be exaggerating - I've major failed on 740 twice and released demons (one in IMT and one on Teras) both times. It has definitely happened significantly more than three times. But whatever; I think the possibility of more major failures is pretty damn cool.

GMS ARE NEVER WRONG MSCONTREW.

[subzero]

It's too bad these 'great changes' do virtually nothing for capped sorcerers.

[Gelston]

Yeah, cheaper chalk, less failure, and not losing circles is very much shit for a capped sorc.

[droit]

It's too bad these 'great changes' do virtually nothing for capped sorcerers.

Ah good, the "Fleurs of Sorcery" has arrived.

[Kronius]

I'm happy with the changes. My dwarven Teras citizen gets chalk now for 23k. That's nothing, really. Yeah, inter-realm isn't really changing for me other than that being 1x in demonology. But not auto-dying and losing the circle is good too.

I'm confident they're not done tweaking

[subzero]

Less failure. Yeah, cause that was such a huge issue before. Net gain: minimal.
Cheaper chalk. Nice, sure. I've said as much, but at the end of the day, I have well over 100M and simply don't cross-realms 740 enough that it will ever matter. Net gain: minimal.
Not losing circles is a nice quality of life improvement, but again, with failure not really being an issue, guess what? Not losing a circle on a failure is also not much of an issue. Net gain: minimal.
'Gold ring' version of 740, a trick/gimmick of the sort that you would expect to see more of in capped casters is useless at cap. Net gain: zero.

I'm not Fleursing anything. I'm not rage quitting or yelling at anyone for making changes. I'm simply pointing out that the changes are pretty minor and I expected more. I'll re-iterate this point: Capped casters should have more tricks and gimmicks where their spells are concerned, not less. This update provides the opposite of that until other changes are made in regard to the teleport restrictions.

[Gelston]

Capped casters should have more tricks and gimmicks where their spells are concerned, not less. This update provides the opposite of that until other changes are made in regard to the teleport restrictions.

This change provides LESS tricks and gimmicks? And as Kronius said, they probably aren't done yet.

[subzero]

This change provides LESS tricks and gimmicks? And as Kronius said, they probably aren't done yet.

For a capped sorcerer, yes. When we reach the pinnacle of our profession, more things like this should be available to us. Truthfully, giving something like this that could be used prior to cap, and then relegated down to uselessness later makes the situation worse. Here's the scenario in a nut-shell: At level 40, a well trained demonologist can attempt gold-ring 740. Gold-ring 740 is reliably useful at ~level 75 (1x demo). From the reliably working point forward, you can use it until you hunt capped areas. Now we're around level 94 and it may as well not exist any longer, which effectively takes the gimmick away from the top-end sorcerers while only providing a rather small window of opportunity for lesser sorcerers (How many people really 2x demonology? This just isn't something that will be used until higher levels and then it get's its balls cut off again by some bullshit teleport restrictions towards cap).

When and where would you ever use the 'gold ring' version as a capped sorcerer? You simply can't use it for the capped hunting areas; two are cross-realms and won't work because of that while the third cannot be ported into. What, are you gonna fuckin 740 from TSC to the gemshop or somethin? Prior to cap it can potentially be used, but I really see no use for it once you enter capped hunting areas. Seriously... I want to know where you guys see this being applied. Hell, it probably won't even be reliable enough to use until 75, so enjoy it from those big levels 75-90ish? Thanks, I guess.

They aren't done with sorcery updates, from what they were alluding to the on officials, but I think it's safe to say they do not have any further plans for 740 at this time. Like Virilneus said, they don't incrementally improve spells in such a manner.

edit:

Thread: 740 Updated

You're kind of a little bitch, aren't you?


Let's see. Changes were made. I say it's a shame changes were virtually useless for capped sorcerers. No, no I don't see how that makes me a bitch. I can tell you who I see as a bitch, though. That'd be the pussy leaving rep comments rather than bringing his big-boy self out here and telling me where I'm wrong (not that my opinion can really be wrong, but...). Please, feel free to illustrate the gains we get here. I'll give you the 20k drop in chalk price. Go ahead and calculate the massive failure rate reduction (lol) and other things we gained in this update. The update was simply underwhelming. Prove me wrong.

[Fallen]

I'd still like to see adjacent-realm chalk get released that is more expensive standard chalk and has less uses, but would allow you to get in/back to OTF, IMT to Pinefar/Rift entrance, etc. It would be a decent money drain and a huge boon to the spell for those well trained enough to use it (IE near capped/Capped sorcerers).

[Kronius]

I still feel they should let us Rift into areas that aren't normally allowed to be teleported into. Hell, Voln can teleport into the Rift and into Nelemar.

The Demonic Planes should be able to reach all of these places.

[Fallen]

I still feel they should let us Rift into areas that aren't normally allowed to be teleported into. Hell, Voln can teleport into the Rift and into Nelemar.

The Demonic Planes should be able to reach all of these places.

Perhaps instead of flat out inability sites likes those simply have higher difficulty checks to overcome.

[Kastrel]

When and where would you ever use the 'gold ring' version as a capped sorcerer?

I can say right now that it is simplifying getting too and from Warcamps, especially the ones which are far from town. I simply don't need to be making two new scripts every time I find a 150 Grim warcamp, and I return to town frequently while working them. Thats one society, true, but there is something. I can also see it being very useful for invasion type scenarios, or getting to out-of-town guilds such as the Illistim Guild. Before, I could script from the Dais to the Pillars faster than I could prepare a circle, but not now. Thats just for ME, my character in particular. I'm sure others have more. But I appreciate where you are coming from, and that you can't go to Nelemar/Rift/OTF. On the other hand, wouldn't it be USEFUL in OTF to set a particular safe-spot to teleport to? I know some use 130 in an emergency, or use rings for increased precision. Wouldn't the targetted 740 be superior to that?

[Allereli]

is it really taking you guys that long to get into the rift and nelemar? I can rift to reasonably close and walk no problems. In the scope of problems we have, getting to the hunting ground faster is low on my list. Not every change is going to be revolutionary. I think the drop in chalk price is reasonable and addressed the problem with the premie transport benefit and the other parts are a bonus (except for increased summoning risk). Of course now everyone is screaming about Voln again when the changes were specifically made to address the premium transport issue.

[subzero]

I can say right now that it is simplifying getting too and from Warcamps, especially the ones which are far from town. I simply don't need to be making two new scripts every time I find a 150 Grim warcamp, and I return to town frequently while working them. Thats one society, true, but there is something. I can also see it being very useful for invasion type scenarios, or getting to out-of-town guilds such as the Illistim Guild. Before, I could script from the Dais to the Pillars faster than I could prepare a circle, but not now. Thats just for ME, my character in particular.

I'll give ya the warcamp thing, but it is not at all some sort of emergency thing for invasions or guild travel unless that is absolutely ALL you use it for. Are you really going to just use 740 to get from town to guild or save it in some emergency escape spot in case of an invasion or somethin? Even if this would apply to a few individuals, overall it's just not a huge benefit. I can virtually guarantee the spell would see a massive increase in use if things were changed to allow porting into the capped areas. Give it a month or two and let's see how many people even know anything changed in this last update, much less use the gold-ring version.


I'm sure others have more. But I appreciate where you are coming from, and that you can't go to Nelemar/Rift/OTF. On the other hand, wouldn't it be USEFUL in OTF to set a particular safe-spot to teleport to? I know some use 130 in an emergency, or use rings for increased precision. Wouldn't the targetted 740 be superior to that?

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I have 1x summon lore and can 740 to any location within OTF without any of the changes. Look, I'm not against the updates. I think the circle-less port is cool. It just fuckin sucks that it is not useful for someone that has reached the pinnacle of the goddamn profession. How does that make sense? And before anyone chimes in with 'well, capped people are only x percent, blah blah', the effect in question isn't something that is supposed to be used UNTIL higher levels. Then at the pinnacle, yoink! It's gone. Do you see how this can be baffling to someone with a capped sorcerer? See how it might be hard to find much real value in the update? I'm not saying there is none; just that it is small overall, and even less so for those who are capped. Unfortunately, it should be the other way around.

[Kastrel]

I have 1x summon lore and can 740 to any location within OTF without any of the changes.

Oh, what I was going for was emergency use. You can already 740 anywhere in OTF, but say you were hurt (and assuming you could cast) and needed to get out . . . I don't train Summoning lore, so if 130 is already doing that for you, then I've got nothing for you. But I meant as in "Oh shit! INCANT 740" kind of situation. It would be one command faster than removing/wearing a ring, and wouldn't have the chance to throw you into a bad spot like 130. But again, you probably know more about 130's reliability than me, so if you say its working fine, then okay.

Basically, my thought was that a prepared Sorcerer could use circleless 740 as a more reliable emergency spell than 130.

[shad0ws0ngs]

referencing demons being summoned via 740 failures, "only happened about 3 times since the spell was released." I find that hard to believe, as I've witnessed 2 or 3 incidences myself.

[Kastrel]

Any chance 2 of those were with msconstrew? Heh.

Yeah, that figure of 3 was kind of surprising honestly, but I know I've never seen it happen, on my own failures or those of others. I remember waiting eagerly for months after release (back when people used it a lot more) for when it would finally happen.

[shad0ws0ngs]

One, at least, was with Zhelas.. maybe two.. Hell, I think one of them is logged on PC somewhere. Dude blew himself up and released a demon at the statue on Teras and the room had a pile of afk people sitting in the nice non-sancted spot. 8 people died before a capped or near-capped sorceress came in and killed the demon. It was awesome.



http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?44493-1-count-of-Demon-Summoning&highlight=Zhelas+vathor

[subzero]

Oh, what I was going for was emergency use. You can already 740 anywhere in OTF, but say you were hurt (and assuming you could cast) and needed to get out . . . I don't train Summoning lore, so if 130 is already doing that for you, then I've got nothing for you. But I meant as in "Oh shit! INCANT 740" kind of situation. It would be one command faster than removing/wearing a ring, and wouldn't have the chance to throw you into a bad spot like 130. But again, you probably know more about 130's reliability than me, so if you say its working fine, then okay.

Basically, my thought was that a prepared Sorcerer could use circleless 740 as a more reliable emergency spell than 130.

What you're talking about would work. It would be more reliable, perhaps, than 130. But, in order to do as you suggest, you essentially give up the potential to use 740 for anything outside of your emergency setup. You'd also need an easier way to set or reset the target location, which has also been suggested. I just don't see why anyone would give up 740 for that sort of limited use. It's not like we don't have 130 or society options. Seems that trading 740 for that particular use is a huge waste to me.

As for demons being released... it's happened at least once in Shattered, as well.

[Kastrel]

You'd also need an easier way to set or reset the target location, which has also been suggested.

Definitely a good point. I'll go echo the sentiment on the other boards. See if we can get a SENSE PATTERN power or something.

[Allereli]

One, at least, was with Zhelas.. maybe two.. Hell, I think one of them is logged on PC somewhere. Dude blew himself up and released a demon at the statue on Teras and the room had a pile of afk people sitting in the nice non-sancted spot. 8 people died before a capped or near-capped sorceress came in and killed the demon. It was awesome.

I think that was Sereg's blooper. Hilarious

[subzero]

Forgot to address this earlier...


Of course now everyone is screaming about Voln again when the changes were specifically made to address the premium transport issue.

Both updates to Voln and Premium subs contributed to the need to update 740. The connection between Voln and 740 exists because this new addition to 740 that was designed to make it more user-friendly for higher level sorcerers is useless with the current teleport restrictions in place. Restrictions whose entire reason for being was nullified when they added Symbol of Seeking (which I have no problem with in itself). How they took the time to design this and completely ignore or miss the realities of the application of 740 is amazing. The spell is primarily used for going between town and hunting areas with the occasional side-trip to spots out of town, such as guilds, or cross-realms travel.

They went and coded a new aspect to be used with this spell that cannot be used by the sorcerers it was intended for because they neglected the fact that most hunting areas have been blocked from teleporting. So, not only do we have an invalid reason for teleport restrictions in place thanks to Voln, but now we've had some fool's gold handed off to us as part of the update that was supposed to give us back a little something after the Premie/Voln updates. I'd say it all ties together rather nicely.

[Allereli]

Both updates to Voln and Premium subs contributed to the need to update 740. The connection between Voln and 740 exists because this new addition to 740 that was designed to make it more user-friendly for higher level sorcerers is useless with the current teleport restrictions in place. Restrictions whose entire reason for being was nullified when they added Symbol of Seeking (which I have no problem with in itself). How they took the time to design this and completely ignore or miss the realities of the application of 740 is amazing. The spell is primarily used for going between town and hunting areas with the occasional side-trip to spots out of town, such as guilds, or cross-realms travel.

They went and coded a new aspect to be used with this spell that cannot be used by the sorcerers it was intended for because they neglected the fact that most hunting areas have been blocked from teleporting. So, not only do we have an invalid reason for teleport restrictions in place thanks to Voln, but now we've had some fool's gold handed off to us as part of the update that was supposed to give us back a little something after the Premie/Voln updates. I'd say it all ties together rather nicely.

If I recall correctly, there wasn't much objection to the Voln symbol when it announced or after it came out, it was only after the premium transport debacle that people were really up in arms. However, none of this really matters, Oscuro and Estild say more is coming, but before even seeing what it is and what the whole picture is, people are telling them how much their work sucked, which is the greatest way to get someone to want to continue to do something for you.

[subzero]

If I recall correctly, there wasn't much objection to the Voln symbol when it announced or after it came out, it was only after the premium transport debacle that people were really up in arms.

Well, it sure had me wondering if they were going to make changes to teleport restrictions when they did the Voln update. The premi update just kinda tipped the cart is all.


However, none of this really matters, Oscuro and Estild say more is coming, but before even seeing what it is and what the whole picture is, people are telling them how much their work sucked, which is the greatest way to get someone to want to continue to do something for you.

Who said their work sucked? What was done is fine, it just has no practical application with teleports being blocked in so many places. See, the fix isn't with 740 now. It's with rooms. Other people will still want more group travel options and whatnot, but I personally don't care too much about that. I asked on the officials and I've asked here. What are the practical applications for 'gold-ring 740'? One person has responded with a single, limited application for it. Remove/tweak teleport restrictions and we have what they intended. Without it, they wasted their effort coding that aspect. Please, tell me where I'm wrong. Who is the target of this change? When, where, and why would they make use of it? This isn't being critical just for the sake of being critical...

[crb]

If I recall correctly, there wasn't much objection to the Voln symbol when it announced or after it came out, it was only after the premium transport debacle that people were really up in arms. However, none of this really matters, Oscuro and Estild say more is coming, but before even seeing what it is and what the whole picture is, people are telling them how much their work sucked, which is the greatest way to get someone to want to continue to do something for you.

I always find honesty to be the best policy. We shouldn't need them to want to do something for us.

They say more is coming, but I'm sure it isn't 740 changes. When can you think of a release where Simu released half the changes to a spell when they were planning more? They may have sorcery changes coming, but 740 is done.

Also, Estild is getting annoying with his constant minimization of our concerns.

This change is meh, for the reasons subzero laid out. 740 can do nothing unique, really. That is really the problem with it, it does nothing unique. Any voln cleric can teleport to more places, better, and cheaper, than we can with 740. There isn't a feature it has that is not duplicated or passed elsewhere. High level spells should be more unique.

Ask yourself this, if 740 was taken away, would you miss it, really miss it? go2 gold rings chronomages. I wouldn't. It was cool when it was released, when it WAS unique.

I'd trade it for 240 in a heartbeat.

[Tgo01]

They should change 740 so when it's cast it turns the sorcerer into a wizard.

[Androidpk]

Ask yourself this, if 740 was taken away, would you miss it, really miss it?

Welcome to 1640.

[Kastrel]

I always find honesty to be the best policy. We shouldn't need them to want to do something for us.

They say more is coming, but I'm sure it isn't 740 changes. When can you think of a release where Simu released half the changes to a spell when they were planning more? They may have sorcery changes coming, but 740 is done.

Also, Estild is getting annoying with his constant minimization of our concerns.

This change is meh, for the reasons subzero laid out. 740 can do nothing unique, really. That is really the problem with it, it does nothing unique. Any voln cleric can teleport to more places, better, and cheaper, than we can with 740. There isn't a feature it has that is not duplicated or passed elsewhere. High level spells should be more unique.

Ask yourself this, if 740 was taken away, would you miss it, really miss it? go2 gold rings chronomages. I wouldn't. It was cool when it was released, when it WAS unique.

I'd trade it for 240 in a heartbeat.

Personally? Would I miss 740? Absolutely. I would never trade 740 for 240. Not even for 240 at double duration or effectiveness. Its not even a close bargain for me. That doesn't minimize the fact that you would, but its not a universal distaste for the spell.

Gold rings? Limited access, have to keep track of them. You can get those chains, but honestly, not even comparable. Chronomages? NEVER would spend 100k on cross-realms travel except in the most dire of Illistim/Vaalor to Teras situations. go2? I don't even know what that is, I can only assume its something Lich related, and that says all it should. People can continually tell me that not using Lich is a handicap I apply to myself, but in the end, try telling that to Simu. We were lucky to get a spell duration change which was inspired by Lich, but to say a spell is useless because of Lich is a choice made by the player, and Simu doesn't have to adapt to that.

I do agree that the 740 changes are done. There is more incoming, and its not 740. If we are lucky, we will get the SENSE PATTERN suggestion, but I think that will be it.

[crb]

Another thing to remember is all the travel times were reduced otherwise as well. So that makes the value of cross realms lower. I walk often to the landing rather than rift. It isn't that far.

;go2 is just a fancy travel script, it is fancier than old style travel scripts, but people have certainly used movement scripts longer than lich has been around.

Maybe I feel different because I played the entire game 0-100 (0-150 technically) without 740.

Remember chronomages are free if you bring them 20 gold rings.

[Tgo01]

People can continually tell me that not using Lich is a handicap I apply to myself, but in the end, try telling that to Simu. We were lucky to get a spell duration change which was inspired by Lich, but to say a spell is useless because of Lich is a choice made by the player, and Simu doesn't have to adapt to that.

I think if a spell is made useless by tools that are available to the player and aren't breaking any rules that Simu should address said concerns.

[Kastrel]

Another thing to remember is all the travel times were reduced otherwise as well. So that makes the value of cross realms lower. I walk often to the landing rather than rift. It isn't that far.

Remember chronomages are free if you bring them 20 gold rings.

I agree on the subject of travel times, and I did not shift to the Landing from Illistim because of it, since I got my chalks for 41k and that was too much. Now, I get them for 24k, and thats quite a bit more reasonable (not to mention an improved success rate). I find myself going back and forth between the Landing and Illistim far more often than I used to these days, and I can forsee spending that much, since its not uncommon for me to find 20k in gems on a hunt these days.

Also, forgot about the 20 gold ring thing. Not that I find them nearly often enough for that. How does it work? Can you backlog free trips, or is it 1 max?

[Kastrel]

Update:


Using SENSE PATTERN when not holding a rune book will now reset a Sorcerer's bound room for circle-less teleportation to their current room. The bound room is still set to any departure point when using 740. This means INCANT 740 (with at least 40 ranks of Demonology lore) now functions almost identically to a gold ring, where INCANTing 740 is the analog of WEARing a gold ring and SENSE PATTERN is the analog of TURNing a gold ring. - Oscuro

Well, there is that problem solved. I'm sure it doesn't appease everyone, but that at least makes it quite a viable escape spell, and tremendously increases the "ease of use" of the gold ring version.

[Fallen]

Now that's something right there.

[Gibreficul]

I didn't catch the log of releasing it, I can only assume it was my sorcerer who did it, but I came home and saw it.. so I figured I'd kill it.

Here's the log:


[Ruined Temple, Third Floor]
You notice a lithe black abyran'ra.
Obvious paths: east, south, west
>Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>inc 719
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
The replenishing effect fades, but you are left with a feeling of wellbeing.
CS: +532 - TD: +555 + CvA: +20 + d100: +46 == +43
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>A lithe black abyran'ra swiftly raises its arms and slashes its talons at you!
Particles of dust and soot rise from the ground at a lithe black abyran'ra's feet as it releases a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward you!
CS: +410 - TD: +434 + CvA: +15 + d100: +59 == +50
Warded off!
>inc 119
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Spirit Dispel spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
The opalescent aura fades from around a lithe black abyran'ra.
A hazy film coats a lithe black abyran'ra.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>A lithe black abyran'ra scythes its talons back and forth as it hisses a sibilant invocation.
>inc 417
You trace a simple rune while intoning the mystical phrase for Elemental Dispel...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
A lithe black abyran'ra blinks and looks around in confusion for a moment.
... 10 points of damage!
Mild electric jolt sends the black abyran'ra into spasms.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>inc 119
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Spirit Dispel spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
A white glow rushes away from a lithe black abyran'ra.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>A lithe black abyran'ra tries to sink its curved fangs into you!
You barely manage to fend off the attack with your runestaff!
>
inc 417
You trace a simple rune while intoning the mystical phrase for Elemental Dispel...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
The deep blue glow leaves a lithe black abyran'ra.
The elemental aura around a lithe black abyran'ra fluxes chaotically!
... 20 points of damage!
Light shock to chest. That stings!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>inc 119
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Spirit Dispel spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
The very powerful look leaves a lithe black abyran'ra.
The white light leaves a lithe black abyran'ra.
A hazy film coats a lithe black abyran'ra.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>inc 417
You trace a simple rune while intoning the mystical phrase for Elemental Dispel...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
A bolt of energy leaps from a lithe black abyran'ra to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>inc 719
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
CS: +532 - TD: +506 + CvA: +20 + d100: +27 == +73
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>A lithe black abyran'ra suddenly spins in spiraling fury, its massive tail whipping out in a frenzy as the serpents crowning its head writhe and hiss!
You nimbly avoid the lashing tail of the black abyran'ra!
>prep 405
You gesture and invoke the powers of the elements for the Elemental Detection spell...
Your spell is ready.
>cast abyr
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
You detect the following spells on a lithe black abyran'ra:

No spells detected.

Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>A lithe black abyran'ra lashes its tail at you in a whip-like fashion!
AS: +470 vs DS: +694 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +63 = -123
A clean miss.
>inc 715
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Curse...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
A thread of brackish blue magic issues forth from you toward the black abyran'ra. It coils itself around it, whirling malevolently before disappearing within its body.
A lithe black abyran'ra shakes slightly and looks very vulnerable!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>inc 719

You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
CS: +532 - TD: +481 + CvA: +20 + d100: +57 == +128
Warding failed!
... and hits for 25 points of damage!
A lithe black abyran'ra is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 5 points of damage!
The black abyran'ra's left hand turns an interesting shade of light blue.
... 25 points of damage!
Light shock to right arm. That stings!
... 5 points of damage!
Stubs right hand finger.
You feel 3 mana surge into you!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>A lithe black abyran'ra tries to sink its curved fangs into you!
AS: +480 vs DS: +694 with AvD: +39 + d100 roll: +38 = -137
A clean miss.
>inc 413
You trace a simple rune while intoning the mystical phrase for Elemental Saturation...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
CS: +496 - TD: +513 + CvA: +20 + d100: +48 == +51
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>inc 719
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
CS: +532 - TD: +481 + CvA: +20 + d100: +71 == +142
Warding failed!
... and hits for 25 points of damage!
A lithe black abyran'ra is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 35 points of damage!
The black abyran'ra winces at the cold blast to the left arm.
... 25 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Blow to back connects lightly.
You feel 5 mana surge into you!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>inc 719
>You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
CS: +532 - TD: +481 + CvA: +20 + d100: +46 == +117
Warding failed!
... and hits for 11 points of damage!
A lithe black abyran'ra is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 20 points of damage!
Chilly blast to the head. Bet the black abyran'ra's ears are tingling!
... 20 points of damage!
... 10 points of damage!
Stubs left hand finger.
The black abyran'ra sustains massive system shock!
You feel 4 mana surge into you!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>A lithe black abyran'ra slithers east!
>inc 720
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Implosion...
Your spell is ready.
You do not currently have a target.
>e
[Ruined Temple, Third Floor]
You notice a lithe black abyran'ra, a silver-rimmed black steel buckler and a coral-hilted sharply tapered longsword.
Obvious paths: east, south, west
>inc 720
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a lithe black abyran'ra!
Smashing blow of air to a lithe black abyran'ra.
+106 Hits.

A number of items ranging from 4 to 6 feet from the void were picked up and sucked toward the blackness, but did no damage. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>inc 720
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Implosion...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a lithe black abyran'ra!
Forceful decompression causes the black abyran'ra to nearly invert!
+254 Hits.

Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>The wall of force disappears from around you.
>A lithe black abyran'ra slithers west!
>w
inc 720

[Ruined Temple, Third Floor]
You notice a lithe black abyran'ra.
Obvious paths: east, south, west
>You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Implosion...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a lithe black abyran'ra!
Debris strikes a lithe black abyran'ra.
+56 Hits.

Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>inc 719
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe black abyran'ra.
CS: +532 - TD: +481 + CvA: +20 + d100: +50 == +121
Warding failed!
... and hits for 20 points of damage!
A lithe black abyran'ra is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 25 points of damage!
Near miss! Ice particles sting the black abyran'ra's eye and it blinks rapidly.
... 50 points of damage!
Heavy shock gives the black abyran'ra fits!
A lithe black abyran'ra's coils whip around frantically as it falls to the ground and dies.
The black abyran'ra appears a bit less vulnerable.
The black abyran'ra sustains massive system shock!
You feel 1 mana surge into you!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>loot
You search the black abyran'ra.
You discard the abyran'ra's useless equipment.
It had nothing else of value.
The black abyran'ra's body bleeds with a shadowy blackness that seeps across its flesh as it melts away into nothing.

And that's how you kill a demon.

[crb]

I don't know if there is a maximum chronomage bank, if there is, it is quite high, I haven't used or sold a gold ring in years. You just give it to the attendant for a 5k credit.

[Kronius]

I don't know why, but I just spent a few minutes incanting 740 back between two rooms in Kharam-Dzu, for no apparent reason. It was kind of fun. I may or may not have been trying for a demon.

[zhelas]

One, at least, was with Zhelas.. maybe two.. Hell, I think one of them is logged on PC somewhere. Dude blew himself up and released a demon at the statue on Teras and the room had a pile of afk people sitting in the nice non-sancted spot. 8 people died before a capped or near-capped sorceress came in and killed the demon. It was awesome.



http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?44493-1-count-of-Demon-Summoning&highlight=Zhelas+vathor

Heck yes... Good times

[Malisai]

I like the changes. I agree that its nothing mind blowing. 740 without the circle is neat. To me the biggest change is that the circle doesnt go poof if you fail. Overall this falls into the neato category. Its an improvement but not enough i think. The GMs need to really consider letting us rift basically anywhere with 740, with cross realm rifting without a circle at massive lore levels.

[subzero]

Quit whining about the 740 changes we are not all 100m rich and capped like you, in fact you are in the minority so stop bitching.

Heeeey, dumbass:


And before anyone chimes in with 'well, capped people are only x percent, blah blah', the effect in question isn't something that is supposed to be used UNTIL higher levels.

When they make something for the minority, it should be useful for that minority otherwise the effort was wasted. I believe we can work through this if you answer some simple questions (that, I'll add, no one seems to want or be able to answer... be the first?):

For what purpose(s) do you use intra-realm 740?
Who are the intended benefactors of the 740 change? (let's think mostly in terms of level here)

Now, I know there are a lot of people that play Gemstone and somehow never get beyond certain levels. Maybe you fall into this category and are completely clueless as to how things work at higher levels. Normally you would be forgiven for this, but normally you would fucking listen when people that know how things work tell you how they work. You have either not done so or chose to ignore the facts, so until you can prove otherwise, I'll have to believe you're an idiot. Anyway, back to the questions!

What level is your sorcerer?
When and why do you see yourself using 'gold-ring 740'? (Granted, the change to allow setting a location does provide some expanded use since many places you cannot teleport INTO can be ported OUT of; we're still limited by a system that is in place for a reason that is obviously no longer an issue considering they've recently allowed it to be bypassed)

[Kastrel]

(Granted, the change to allow setting a location does provide some expanded use since many places you cannot teleport INTO can be ported OUT of; we're still limited by a system that is in place for a reason that is obviously no longer an issue considering they've recently allowed it to be bypassed)

This was something I was personally interested in because of the initial complaints regarding the spell adjustments.

What major areas would this allow porting out of? I think Nelemar, right? Any other significant ones, like the Bowels? I realize this is probably 0 use for the Rift, but I'm curious to see how many locations get improved use due to the SENSE PATTERN change.

[subzero]

This was something I was personally interested in because of the initial complaints regarding the spell adjustments.

What major areas would this allow porting out of? I think Nelemar, right? Any other significant ones, like the Bowels? I realize this is probably 0 use for the Rift, but I'm curious to see how many locations get improved use due to the SENSE PATTERN change.

Most of the higher level areas, I think. I haven't checked all these myself, but I believe these places do not allow inbound teleports:
Darkstone
Broken Lands
Bonespear
Stronghold
Lower eye
Skull temple
Maaghara Tower
Griffin's Keen
Labyrinth/Bowels
The Rift
Nelemar

Darkstone, Bonespear, and Broken Lands are definitely on the lower end of things and are not places I would imagine 740 being used for a whole lot, especially gold-ring style. Regardless of that, there are a good deal of other options at that level. From the Stronghold (critter levels 58, 62, and 67) on, it starts to narrow. Other options in the 58-67 range: I don't know if wind wraiths (61) or soul golems (63) can be ported to or not. Same with the citadel on RR (54-62). Harbs and MTKs (63) in broken lands/darkstone fall into the 'blocked' category. For completion's sake, I guess ice elementals (63) could be ported to (does anyone really hunt them?). Not sure if the glaes caverns are considered part of the lower eye or not, but it's quite possible that area is blocked as well which includes fire elementals, fire sprites, red tsarks, and fire mages (60-71).

Basically from 58 to the low 60s you have the Stronghold, Black Forest, Wind Tunnels/Soul Golems, the Citadel, and MTKs/Harbs. Some of those are definitely blocked, others may be. The only one I know is not blocked is the Black Forest. Beyond that (let's say 64), you're dealing with teleport restricted areas. Skull temple (66-70), Griffin's Keen (64-73), Tsarks and Fire Mages (66 and 71) in a couple different places that may or may not be blocked, Labyrinth (72-78), Maaghara (75-78), Rift (75-104), Bowels (82-89), and Nelemar (92-105) are all blocked. OTF (82-100) is it's own realm, which eliminates efficient use of 740. This effectively covers every hunting ground from level 64-100. Guess where the targets of the 740 change hunt? Yep. All blocked areas.

[rolfard]

there's a GM post, don't ask me which, but it basically says anyplace you can't use a gold ring inbound will also block planar shift.

(and it's hilarious the number of places that are in my book that were formerly allowed or still allowed, that I have found)

[Kastrel]

Maaghara is a bitch for everything, it prevents locating, and even demons.

But just because you can't port in doesn't mean you can't port out, as it looks like for Nelemar (and honestly, I'd rather port out than port in, since outbound I'm more likely to be encumbered for the swim and wouldn't want to be short 40 mana starting a hunt). OTF can't be ported to and from, but you can port to the barrier or a safe room in OTF. I guess I'm just not seeing the lack of functionality. Is it limited? Yes. Is it useless? No. A lot of these places allow out-bound porting, which is 50% of the equation, and OTF allows within realm porting, which is completely useful, if not what some people want to see.

To be honest, I guess I just don't see how people can only consider this spell useful if it lets them move from their resting spot to their hunting ground and vice versa. If thats the precise definition of how this spell must be to be useful . . . well, its not that. And I don't think it needs that to be useful.

[subzero]

But just because you can't port in doesn't mean you can't port out, as it looks like for Nelemar

Right, but you've got to understand. They didn't make the change to allow a location to be set until we complained about it. You would have had to port from town to the hunting area in order to set the return location. Without being able to set the location ourselves, you could not use gold-ring 740 in those areas. Period. What use would the gold-ring 740 have then?


(and honestly, I'd rather port out than port in, since outbound I'm more likely to be encumbered for the swim and wouldn't want to be short 40 mana starting a hunt).

Heh, not an issue for me. I have an empath sitting nearby with a little over 500 mana, even if I wouldn't be able to take that hit to begin with.


OTF can't be ported to and from, but you can port to the barrier or a safe room in OTF. I guess I'm just not seeing the lack of functionality. Is it limited? Yes. Is it useless? No. A lot of these places allow out-bound porting, which is 50% of the equation, and OTF allows within realm porting, which is completely useful, if not what some people want to see.

OTF needs to not be it's own realm and be moved in with the rest of Illistim. The whole reason for it being it's own realm is to prevent people from easily bypassing the skill checks. Apparently it's ok if we spend the money on good chalk, but god forbid anyone get through for pennies. It's just illogical and unnecessary in today's environment.


To be honest, I guess I just don't see how people can only consider this spell useful if it lets them move from their resting spot to their hunting ground and vice versa. If thats the precise definition of how this spell must be to be useful . . . well, its not that. And I don't think it needs that to be useful.

Eh, let's take a look at teleport spells and how they've been applied over the years? I can't believe I have to do this...

225 - ports caster to target player location. Obviously this isn't the type of port we're really looking at. Its primary use is for rescues.
130, 1030, sym return - ports caster and group towards town; used for post-hunt laziness, rescues, and emergency exits.
930 - can create portal for caster and group; used to travel to and from hunting areas and rescues.
gold ring - creates a point-to-point teleport; used to travel to and from hunting grounds.
intra-realm 740 - can port virtually anywhere (until high level hunting areas, of course); used to travel to and from hunting grounds, rescues, and perhaps now emergency exits (I'm still thinking 130 is going to be the safer, more sure route, but hey...)

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the application of teleport spells sure seem to primarily be for use between hunting areas and town. If I'm wrong, I'd absolutely love to hear what the common application of this stuff is, because I sure as shit haven't figured it out in the ten plus years I've been playing. Like I said before, you don't teleport from town center to the gemshop. That's just stupid. So, yeah, when they make a change aimed at higher level characters and that change won't be effective for those characters because of the limits of an outside system (teleport restrictions), the usefulness of that change should be in question. They took a right step by allowing us to set a return location, but it's just a band-aid to cover the real issue that still exists, in my opinion. None of this means I don't like what they did with 740. It simply means that what they did would be much greater and have a bigger impact if the systems around it were changed so that 740 could breathe and do what it's supposed to.

And don't forget, the use that I've been forced to concede has only been granted to us after some of us spoke up. You almost sound as if it's been this way since they first implemented the changes. They may still cling to their teleport restrictions for whatever ancient reason they may have, but they also had to have seen that they had to make it so we could set a return location in order for their change to see any real use and that is the main issue. We all want development within the profession. I sure as hell don't want to see them do things that aren't used because they lacked the foresight to see that their change had real application in the game. It looked great on paper.

[rolfard]

while i really like the circle-less travel, you didn't have to port into nelemar to port out. you simply had to port from town to town before swimming in so if you open casted it would return you to town. the sense pattern adjustment was a boon as the workaround was a use of components and a waste of time.

[subzero]

Yeah, I guess you could have done that. Pretty much goes against the whole making things easier, though, so thankfully they added the sense pattern deal.

[Kastrel]

Yeah, I guess you could have done that. Pretty much goes against the whole making things easier, though, so thankfully they added the sense pattern deal.

And when you raised that issue of "having a pattern sensed for that purpose means you basically can't use the spell for anything else", I agreed that you had a pretty good point, and I pointed that out. I'm glad Oscuro saw the same rationale. It wasn't about making the spell better, it was more about making it more practical.

While I can see the point that the circleless travel has limited applications for end game characters, I also feel like it has given high level sorcerers permanent access to a viable gold ring alternative. It doesn't even require components. A sorcerer could use nothing but that feature and never purchase a runebook or chalk. There is a risk, yes, a 2% failure rate with a risk of catastrophic failure, but I like to think that is a fairly unique feature, even if gold rings aren't the most useful item by that time in the game.

But I guess it really comes down to how you want to look at it. Will this spell teleport you from your node to your hunting ground and back? No, and if that is a primary factor for determining if it is good enough, then yeah, it does fall short. Is there a benefit in having a self-cast gold ring spell? I'd say so as well.

[Gibreficul]

>[sorc_hunt]>prep 740
You begin drawing a faint, twisting symbol while softly intoning the words for Planar Shift...
Your spell is ready.
>[sorc_hunt]>cast #18111629
You gesture at a summoning circle.
A small shadowy rift begins to take form before your eyes. Suddenly, a small black void floats out of the rift and stops directly over you!
... 50 points of damage!
Head is vaporized by decompression!
A dark shadow seems to detach itself from your body, swiftly dissipating into the air.
<tons of spells drop>
...departing in 16 mins...

The rift begins to waver lazily and suddenly implodes upon itself in a large plume of soot-filled black smoke. When the rift clears, a lithe black abyran'ra is standing around, surveying the surroundings.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


I'm gunna leave that one for other people to deal with. ENJOY!

[msconstrew]

Most of the higher level areas, I think. I haven't checked all these myself, but I believe these places do not allow inbound teleports:

Bonespear
Labyrinth



Incorrect. You can 740 into and out of the safe room in Bonespear, and probably other rooms as well. Assuming you mean mintoaurs for the Labyrinth, you can also 740 into and out of there.

[subzero]

Yeah, it's a whole lot less rare now. Apparently I've summoned two Abyran'ra since last night:


You gesture at a summoning circle.
A small shadowy rift begins to take form before your eyes. Suddenly, a small black void floats out of the rift and stops directly over you!
... 30 points of damage!
Eyes burst followed by a stream of blood and brain, what a mess!
The light blue glow leaves you.
The glowing specks of energy surrounding you suddenly shoot off in all directions, then quickly fade away.
The bright luminescence fades from around you.
You feel less confident than before.
You feel your extra strength departing.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves you.
You no longer feel so dextrous.
Your heightened awareness of your own vulnerabilities fades away.
The shimmering aura fades from around you.
A dark shadow seems to detach itself from your body, swiftly dissipating into the air.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around you.
The air about you stops shimmering.
The air calms down around you.
The deep blue glow leaves you.
The powerful look leaves you.
The misty halo fades from you.
The white light leaves you.
The very powerful look leaves you.
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.

It seems you have died, my friend. Although you cannot do anything, you are keenly aware of what is going on around you...

You mentally give a sigh of relief as you remember that the Goddess Lorminstra owes you a favor.

...departing in 13 mins...

The rift begins to waver lazily and suddenly implodes upon itself in a large plume of soot-filled black smoke. When the rift clears, a lithe black abyran'ra is standing around, surveying the surroundings.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You begin drawing a faint, twisting symbol while softly intoning the words for Planar Shift...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a summoning circle.
A small shadowy rift begins to take form before your eyes. Suddenly, a dark cloud emerges from the rift, and begins crushing you!
... 20 points of damage!
Left elbow smashed into a thousand pieces.
You are stunned for 2 rounds!

The rift begins to waver lazily and suddenly implodes upon itself in a large plume of soot-filled black smoke. When the rift clears, a lithe black abyran'ra is standing around, surveying the surroundings.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


Just what I always wanted... reliability!


Incorrect. You can 740 into and out of the safe room in Bonespear, and probably other rooms as well. Assuming you mean mintoaurs for the Labyrinth, you can also 740 into and out of there.

Yeah, I forgot about the room in Bonespear. Kinda surprised about the Labyrinth, though, cause I'm 99% sure you can't 225 into the area.

[Kronius]

Weird, I've been trying my damnedest to get an abyran'ra to come through, circleless traveling all over the place. Haven't even failed =\

[subzero]

I port back from probably 90% of my hunts, so this shit is gonna get out of hand it seems.

[Kastrel]

Whats going on there? I haven't had a same-realm failure of lethal consequences ever before, and this update did not make them more dangerous crit wise. Not to mention, with only a 1% failure rate . . . even 5% before, it was rare to see even 2 failures in one day. Sounds like some really bad fumbles, or something.

[subzero]

Looks like it's working as intended to me! Also looking less and less like I'll continue using 740 on a regular basis. It's about to become nothing more than cross-realms travel, which is sad.

[Delarock]

I've been semi retired for a while... But unleashing demons kinda makes me wanna come back.

[Gelston]

Sorcerers with at least 40 ranks of Sorcerous Lore, Demonology may now use the circle-less version of Planar Shift (740) with the retribution effect of Cloak of Shadows (712). Simply CHANT RETRIBUTION 740. As with other target-less spells, such as Spirit Guide (130), the cloak will lash out at the caster after the Planar Shift effect occurs.

GameMaster Oscuro

This message was originally posted in Sorcerers, Sorcerer Spells. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/235/2628/view/1187

[msconstrew]

Sorcerers with at least 40 ranks of Sorcerous Lore, Demonology may now use the circle-less version of Planar Shift (740) with the retribution effect of Cloak of Shadows (712). Simply CHANT RETRIBUTION 740. As with other target-less spells, such as Spirit Guide (130), the cloak will lash out at the caster after the Planar Shift effect occurs.

GameMaster Oscuro

This message was originally posted in Sorcerers, Sorcerer Spells. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/235/2628/view/1187

Awesome change. It's like chanting 130 without the RT penalty AND with a definite target (but with the possibility of instant death!). I love it.

[Fallen]

Very neat. Very dangerous, though.

[Kastrel]

Very neat. Very dangerous, though.

I'd guess its no more dangerous than chanting 130, especially in places like OTF with random locations. Unless the spell itself is more dangerous to have as a retribution, you can say "Whats more likely to kill me? 2% failure rate with an additional chance for demons, or RT and semi random output location from 130"

Unless you have enough consistancy from 130 to say that you will land in a safe location 98% of the time . . . it seems pretty reasonable. That it would backfire seems to be a risk inherent to 130 as well.

EDIT:



The spell chosen has no effect on the success and/or backlash chances, except in the (two) cases of retribution spells without targets. Spirit Guide (130) and Planar Shift (740) are the only retribution spells that will guarantee a backlash (albeit a weaker one than the 5% chance backlash from attack spells). - Oscuro


So I guess spell difficulty doesn't really factor in. Also some other information on 712, apparently, the website info way wrong:

Retribution chance is 70% +1% for every 2 ranks, culminating at 95% at 50 ranks
If a failure should occur, there is a separate roll to determine backlash, which is a 5%; a 1 in 400 chance of backlash for a fully trained sorcerer using an attack spell
Said retribution USED to attack the Sorcerer until death, but he just limited it to 1 hit which can still kill, but is not a guarantee.

Good stuff.

[Allereli]

If you don't read the officials (I assume most don't), people have been posting the past 2 months about the ridiculous failure/demon rate and other issues they're having with 740. My post from 11/13/12 said:


any answer as to why I'm getting a demon on 100% of failures?

Today Oscuro replied with (http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Sorcerers/Sorcerer%20Spells/view/1345):


After another look and another set of eyes, we found an error with the intra-realm chalk version of the spell causing all failures to be major failures. This should now be resolved. Demons should appear far less often with the standard version of 740, and are unchanged with the circle-less version.

GameMaster Oscuro

[subzero]

If you don't read the officials (I assume most don't), people have been posting the past 2 months about the ridiculous failure/demon rate and other issues they're having with 740. My post from 11/13/12 said:

any answer as to why I'm getting a demon on 100% of failures?

Today Oscuro replied with:

After another look and another set of eyes, we found an error with the intra-realm chalk version of the spell causing all failures to be major failures. This should now be resolved. Demons should appear far less often with the standard version of 740, and are unchanged with the circle-less version.

GameMaster Oscuro

Well that's a huge fucking surprise. The damn demons were a near constant presence in Nelemar due to a grand total of two sorcerers using it after hunts. It wasn't unusual at all for there to be multiple abyran'ra running around out there and they were quite aware of the fact.

[Sorcasaurus]

Has anyone switched to using 740 on their CoS and liked it enough to keep it long term??

Was about to start trying it myself and wondering if, even anecdotally, people are finding the backlash manageable enough to change from 130.

[subzero]

Save yourself the headache and just 130.

[subzero]

"Your knowledge of this game continues to amaze me"

Just what is it that I'm not understanding, genius? The GMs fucked up the spell so that every failure summoned a demon. In Shattered, where two sorcerers used 740 to return from every hunt, that created an abnormal amount of abyran running loose. Prior to them fixing it I switched to using 130 and everything is going just fine. By not using 740, I don't run the risk of death (from 740, 712 could still kill you, but I don't use it in cloak), use 10 less mana (not that it's an issue anyway between GoS and mana pulse), and don't have to re-set my landing point prior to every hunt. It's really simple; 130 is easier, even counting the chalk-less version of 740.

[Kastrel]

Save yourself the headache and just 130.

I simply don't understand (now that the backlash issue is fixed) why 740 is anymore of a headache than 130. Both are going to guarantee a serious stun or death due to 712 auto-lashing out, but 740 has a 2% outright failure rate, while 130 has semi-randomized landing drops and highly randomized RT with massive potential RT. I'm not saying 740 is the amazingly clear cut winner, but you pick the one that appeals to your situation. 130 might be better in Nelemar, where a fog will take you out of the temple, while 740 may be better in OTF where a bad drop might land you in worse trouble than you started with, and the RT/stun can get you killed.

[subzero]

Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 201 101
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 201 101

There's nothing random about my landing spot and the other side effects are pretty minor.

[Kastrel]

Physical Fitness...................| 201 101
Spirit Mana Control................| 201 101
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 201 101

There's nothing random about my landing spot and the other side effects are pretty minor.

I'll get back to you on that in a month or two when I finish testing, but my own results are hardly minor.

Where do you land in OTF with 101 Summoning ranks? What %?

[Sorcasaurus]

I plan on trying it for the next few weeks. I'll post my results too.

Thank you for the input. I'm a long ways away from working on Spiritual Lore - Summoning, so this could be interesting. :biggrin:

[subzero]

I'll get back to you on that in a month or two when I finish testing, but my own results are hardly minor.

Where do you land in OTF with 101 Summoning ranks? What %?

Pretty sure the landing spot is the cottage in OTF. I didn't use the spell out there. As for Teras and success rate, I don't think I can recall it not going to the gates.

[Kastrel]

OTF has a much riskier result for 130 though. If you are 1x in Summoning lore, I suppose that may make 130 a better choice, but thats a pretty high amount of an outside lore. Its somewhat common for Sorcerers, but its fairly unusual to have that much at anything less than post-cap. I would also be interested in success rate numbers for landing in the Cottage.

[Sorcasaurus]

Checking back in on this, It's pretty area dependant which to use for me. I'm not near OTF by any means, 60's range sorc using it with no summoning lore.

Basically it came down to if 130 is within range of a town it was the better choice, if not, I found 740 to be more useful. Since testing started, the backlash has killed me twice. Both times were blood loss deaths near the end of some nasty RT lock. Chances are good I was dead regardless of which spell was selected. A few times I was quite stunned, but picking my location I didn't care too much.

Sometimes, even withing range of a town it was also nice to save myself a run back to some areas. I could just eat weeds before resuming.

If people would prefer %s and actual numbers I'll have to compile it later.