Empath Build From You More Experienced Empaths

[Wheelerm]

I bought this character to help my younger characters and my friends hunt in tougher areas. The build is pretty good in a lot of respects, but seems to be lacking in other areas. Being this is a hybrid build, I sort of expected as much. Just wondering if you more experienced empaths could look at this and see what (if anything) you might improve. It may be I just don't know how to actually use him to his full potential.

Anyway, here is his build: Level 69 Human Empath

STATS:

STAT|Normal|Bonus|Enhanced|Bonus
STR|73|16|74|17
CON|92|21|91|20
DEX|70|10|71|10
AGI|76|13|77|13
DIS|88|19|89|19
AUR|90|20|91|20
LOG|88|24|89|24
INT|79|19|80|20
WIS|100|25|106|28
INF|100|25|106|28


And his skills:

SKILL|RANKS|NOTES
ARMOR USE|35|WEARING BRIG
PHY FIT|138|
ARC SYM|25|
MAG ITEM USE|25|
HARN POWER|81|
MENT MANA CONT|69|
SPIR MANA CONT|24|
SPIR LORE: BLESS|71|
MENT LORE: MANIP|71|
MENT LORE: TXFRM|71|
PERCEP|50|
CLIMB|63|
SWIMMING|50|
1ST AID|50|
..........|..........|
MAJ SPIRIT|30|
MIN SPIRIT|35|
EMPATH|88|


He has 172HP and 239 Mana. CS is 340. DS is 439.

Knows all of the Empath circle spells, up to 230 in Major Spiritual, and up to 135 in Minor Spiritual.

The good things about this build, he can heal down rank 3 scars in about 5 sec RT, CS is pretty good. I can hunt Krag Yetis and Dwellers while self-spelled with no real problems as long as I don't let myself melt or get crowded.

The bad things about this build, his Bolt AS is bad. I have a 64 Bolt AS, which means I'm limited to hunting only things with frames.

He gave me some idea of the direction he was taking with the training. He was hoping to suspend or even stop Men Lore: Transformation as soon as his organ scar healing got down to 3 sec. and then start bringing up his Spiritual Lore to about 120 ranks. After that, start bringing up Mentral Lore: Manipulation. Eventually, he was going to work on the Spell Aiming to improve the Bolt AS.

As far as I can tell, the ML: Transformation only helps with healing RT. I think a 5 sec Rank 3 organ scar heal RT is pretty good. Do you think I can stop training in this to free those points up for the SL: Blessing? If so, should I 2X Blessing? Seems Blessing will be more beneficial than Manipulation unless I misunderstood their intents.

Also, the Spirit Mana Control is sort of low, and he said that he only trained in it to be able to send mana to a wizard and ranger character he had. But SMC is the primary mana control skill for Empaths, isn't it? If so, then this skill counts more for the mana return per pulse, and if that is indeed the case, I think I need to do better than 24 ranks.

I don't really think I need any more climbing...I think he may have too many ranks of climbing as it is. What do you think?

I wonder why there are 81 ranks of harness power. If I read the HP KP article correctly, this only really amounts to an additional 12 mana points, which is two more casts of Boneshatter. Being this character is a CoL Master and can Wrack, I wonder why the slight overtrain in HP?

Any feedback you can offer will be greatly appreciated. I have been reading everything I can on the Empath profession ever since I bought the character more than a week ago, and I think I may have read so much that I might have only confused myself a little more.

[TheOne]

My 2 cents, granted i'm only 48, but I've read a lot on empaths

He has 172HP and 239 Mana. CS is 340. DS is 439.

Knows all of the Empath circle spells, up to 230 in Major Spiritual, and up to 135 in Minor Spiritual.

The good things about this build, he can heal down rank 3 scars in about 5 sec RT, CS is pretty good. I can hunt Krag Yetis and Dwellers while self-spelled with no real problems as long as I don't let myself melt or get crowded.

The bad things about this build, his Bolt AS is bad. I have a 64 Bolt AS, which means I'm limited to hunting only things with frames.

I REALLY REALLY enjoy being able to bolt, and feel like it's a major advantage when selecting where to hunt. You can hunt things w/o frames, you just have to use wither (1115)

He gave me some idea of the direction he was taking with the training. He was hoping to suspend or even stop Men Lore: Transformation as soon as his organ scar healing got down to 3 sec. and then start bringing up his Spiritual Lore to about 120 ranks. After that, start bringing up Mentral Lore: Manipulation. Eventually, he was going to work on the Spell Aiming to improve the Bolt AS.

I STRONGLY believe the manipulation ranks are an absolute waste of MTPs. The bonus the provide to bone shatter is very little from what i've read.

As far as I can tell, the ML: Transformation only helps with healing RT. I think a 5 sec Rank 3 organ scar heal RT is pretty good. Do you think I can stop training in this to free those points up for the SL: Blessing? If so, should I 2X Blessing? Seems Blessing will be more beneficial than Manipulation unless I misunderstood their intents.

Blessings give you better bread and better 1107 which doesn't really matter to you since you're CoL. I don't see much reason to 2x it.

Also, the Spirit Mana Control is sort of low, and he said that he only trained in it to be able to send mana to a wizard and ranger character he had. But SMC is the primary mana control skill for Empaths, isn't it? If so, then this skill counts more for the mana return per pulse, and if that is indeed the case, I think I need to do better than 24 ranks.

Empaths are hybrids so MMC provides the same bonus as SMC. Although with the new spell changes, SMC will provide a bigger bonus to your multicast number for spiritual spells, where as the higher of the two will count fully towards empath ranks, and half of the lower will apply half to empath ranks. I'd recommending 1Xing both at your train (if you drop the manip lore).

I don't really think I need any more climbing...I think he may have too many ranks of climbing as it is. What do you think?

Seems like a lot to me but this would be better answered by someone that hunts in higher train areas.

I wonder why there are 81 ranks of harness power. If I read the HP KP article correctly, this only really amounts to an additional 12 mana points, which is two more casts of Boneshatter. Being this character is a CoL Master and can Wrack, I wonder why the slight overtrain in HP?

Yeah i'd just 1x, i don't see you running into mana issues except maybe if you're hunting something with wither, even then 12 points won't make a difference.

Any feedback you can offer will be greatly appreciated. I have been reading everything I can on the Empath profession ever since I bought the character more than a week ago, and I think I may have read so much that I might have only confused myself a little more.

[TheOne]

Also...get to 3x PF ASAP. Biggest improvement you can make to ANY empath.

And if you want to skin get to 2x FA, it's not like it's expensive.

Also congratulations on buying one of the funnest classes in the game.

[Wheelerm]

My 2 cents, granted i'm only 48, but I've read a lot on empaths.

You may be only level 48, but you know a hell of a lot more about empathing than I do, so any feedback is very much appreciated. I wish everyone would put their 2-cents.


I REALLY REALLY enjoy being able to bolt, and feel like it's a major advantage when selecting where to hunt. You can hunt things w/o frames, you just have to use wither (1115)

I agree. This has really, really tied my hands. I'm fine at Wehntoph, but had a problem hunting the first plane of Rift.


I STRONGLY believe the manipulation ranks are an absolute waste of MTPs. The bonus the provide to bone shatter is very little from what i've read.

Interesting...my reading of KP gave me an entirely different impression. Out of all of the Lores I could train in, this one seemed to be the most relevant and beneficial. All of the other Lores were either irrelevant, or only slightly helped with utility-type spells. Maybe I misunderstood what I read.


Blessings give you better bread and better 1107 which doesn't really matter to you since you're CoL. I don't see much reason to 2x it.

KP indicates that this Lore will help with both spiritual circles and only with 1102, 1103, 1104, 1105, and 1107. Seems like the main objective was to maximize the benefits to the spritual circles. Since the character has no CMAN training, it's not like he'll be using any CMANs that will require stamina use, so not really sure that 1107 is a useful spell for me anyhow.


Empaths are hybrids so MMC provides the same bonus as SMC. Although with the new spell changes, SMC will provide a bigger bonus to your multicast number for spiritual spells, where as the higher of the two will count fully towards empath ranks, and half of the lower will apply half to empath ranks. I'd recommending 1Xing both at your train (if you drop the manip lore).

Okay, I wasn't sure if it was both or just one of them. Thanks.


Seems like a lot to me but this would be better answered by someone that hunts in higher train areas.

I don't know...I've walked around Elanthia a lot with him and haven't had any problems yet. I have not gone to Teras with him yet, though...


Yeah i'd just 1x, i don't see you running into mana issues except maybe if you're hunting something with wither, even then 12 points won't make a difference.

Wither...heh...I either miss a lot with that, or the 7% spell failure my brig gives me seems to wait speicifically for me to cast this spell before it decides to interfere.

Thanks a lot for the feedback.

[Wheelerm]

Also...get to 3x PF ASAP. Biggest improvement you can make to ANY empath.

Thanks, but not sure where I'll get the points for that. :/


Also congratulations on buying one of the funnest classes in the game.

I bought this character to help power level my younger characters, but after playing with him for a few days, I find I'm having a lot of fun with him. As a matter of fact, the only thing I cared about when I bought him was, "can he bind whatever my little guys are hunting? Great, he can. Good enough - I'll take him."

Now, I want to "fix" him, if you can call it that. He's really not that bad at all, so if the seller reads this post, please don't take offense. I'm not unhappy with him, just wondering if there is any room for improvement. :)

[Allereli]

As a matter of fact, the only thing I cared about when I bought him was, "can he bind whatever my little guys are hunting? Great, he can. Good enough - I'll take him."

you really fuck your treasure potential when you do that

[Nilandia]

I'd made a post on the officials not too long ago to break down the training plan I advocate for empaths derived from taking one as a caster from 0 to cap, as well as give advice on stat placement and attack spell usage. It's a long read, but there's a lot of information since it also includes the reasons for the recommendations. Someone was nice enough to save the post on Krakiipedia, so you can read it here: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Empath_training_suggestions_(saved_post)

Granted, this is just my opinion on empath training, so you're more than able to agree or disagree with my findings as you choose.

Gretchen

[Wheelerm]

you really fuck your treasure potential when you do that

Really? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious about this. My rogue that I'm doing this with has never been busier opening boxes since I've brought the empath along.

[Wheelerm]

I'd made a post on the officials not too long ago to break down the training plan I advocate for empaths derived from taking one as a caster from 0 to cap, as well as give advice on stat placement and attack spell usage. It's a long read, but there's a lot of information since it also includes the reasons for the recommendations. Someone was nice enough to save the post on Krakiipedia, so you can read it here: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Empath_training_suggestions_(saved_post)

Granted, this is just my opinion on empath training, so you're more than able to agree or disagree with my findings as you choose.

Gretchen

Thank you. I had not run across this yet in my readings.

[Allereli]

Really? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious about this. My rogue that I'm doing this with has never been busier opening boxes since I've brought the empath along.

Q3: I enjoy taking my capped Empath out with my low level friends to help them hunt. Will my friends have no chance at special goodies if I help?
A3: Weapons and shields wielded by creatures are just as likely to be found regardless of your presence. Outside of that, if your help comes in the form of buffing up your friends or healing, you will have no effect on their chances for loot. If, however, you are Binding, Sympathizing, Unbalancing, or similarly assisting them with killing the creatures, then yes, the creature loot will factor in that you are underhunting significantly.
Warden

from http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Creature_loot_and_experience_changes_(saved_post)

[Buckwheet]

You will probably see more benefit with power leveling when you make 211/215/219 group spells and can keep them running.

[Wheelerm]

Q3: I enjoy taking my capped Empath out with my low level friends to help them hunt. Will my friends have no chance at special goodies if I help?
A3: Weapons and shields wielded by creatures are just as likely to be found regardless of your presence. Outside of that, if your help comes in the form of buffing up your friends or healing, you will have no effect on their chances for loot. If, however, you are Binding, Sympathizing, Unbalancing, or similarly assisting them with killing the creatures, then yes, the creature loot will factor in that you are underhunting significantly.
Warden

from http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Creature_loot_and_experience_changes_(saved_post)

Interesting. Thanks a lot for pointing this out.

I think I get it. The fact that the capped empath has engaged the creature with a hostile attack automatically causes the treasure system to evaluate the treasure drop based on the capped empath's level vs. the level of the creature it attacked. If the delta between the empath and the monster is high enough, the treasure is reduced significantly. Therefore, everyone in the group suffers accordingly.

If this is right, then we should be able to over-hunt and somewhat compensate for the treasure nerf. The difference between us and my cleric is only about 25levels.

[Wheelerm]

Thank you. I had not run across this yet in my readings.

Wow, very good read. I had not gotten to the strategy part of the read yet, because I'm mostly interested in the build right now.

Okay, so from what I have read, it sounds like I could drop Mental Lore: Manipulations and replace it with Spirit Lore: Summoning. I will keep Blessing and Transformation.

It looks like I was right that 63 ranks of climbing is probably too much. I can drop it to 30 or 40 and be fine and free up those TPs.

I understand now why there are 24, and only 24, ranks of SMC. Seems to be the magic number, and I'm already at 1x on MMC.

Now onto some questions for you:

1. "- Arcane symbols and magic item use, once per level for life. You'll make your living on scrolls and wands in your early levels, especially since you can invoke scrolls one-handed with enough training (making it fantastic for attack spells) and you won't suffer any DS loss for holding either a scroll or a wand in your hand. In your later levels, both skills are cheap for boosting the defense your runestaff gives, it makes the spells you cast from scrolls and magic items more useful, and you can use items even while encumbered (your skill roll is penalized the more encumbered you are)."

Are you saying 1X in each skill, or 1X evenly between them (0.5X each skill)? I assumed 1X per skill, but since you have them together, I thought it best to ask.

2. Is there any need to overtrain in the Minor and Major Spririt circles? In other words, do I need to get more than 40 ranks in either skill?

[Nilandia]

1. Are you saying 1X in each skill, or 1X evenly between them (0.5X each skill)? I assumed 1X per skill, but since you have them together, I thought it best to ask.

2. Is there any need to overtrain in the Minor and Major Spririt circles? In other words, do I need to get more than 40 ranks in either skill?
1. Correct, 1x each in arcane symbols and MIU.

2. Going past 40 ranks in the spirit circles tends to be for people who are post-cap or who want to boost the CS for either spirit circle. If you rely mostly on empath CS attacks as opposed to spirit CS attacks, you'd want to focus on empath spell ranks.

Gretchen

[Jeril]

You see benefit in training those two circles in the form of increased DS from some of the spells as well. 102 and 120 both give +1 to DS on even numbered ranks up to your level. With the 200s, you get a tiny DS boost from 203 with continued training, only +1 DS per 3 levels above the spell, further training also factors into 220 success. Training more in either circle will also increase your durations, not quite the issue with recent changes, and increase your CS of those respective circles, which some do find to be useful.

About the MIU and AS, if you never really use scrolls or magic items for spells, not much use in training either beyond 40 ranks, training them more will help your runestaff defense a bit but runestaff DS tends to take care of itself.

About the PF, seeing any major benefit in training beyond x2 is mostly about where you hunt and the race of your character, especially with being in CoL. If you get hit with a lot of creature maneuvers or things like boil earth and spikethorn more PF would help there, but if not, it is mostly a waste of points.

About the loot thing, I was hunting with a friend the other night and even not taking part in any of the kills, their loot was terrible. As soon as I left, they were getting good loot again. Not the first time I've seen this happen either.

[Gibreficul]

I fixed him. :)