Training Help (30 day respec)

[Alaunyll]

Ok, my 30 days will be up in a little less then two weeks, so I don't think I'm going to make a whole lot more progress so figure it's a good time to start thinking about any skill/stat changes that I should make. I'm a polearm user, I'm currently using a halberd but would like to start using a lance ASAP so please keep that in mind with any stat suggestions, I'm trying to figure out if moving my strength down a bit to bump up my Agi or Dex to get my bonus up would hurt my AS or where I should find these points.

Could also you some suggetsions on CMAN training, as it stands now I have one rank of each Charge, WSpec1, and Surge. The +2 from WSpec1 is doing nothing for me at present, even with just my 2x halberd at 12 I'm able to get my AS up to 210 on a regular basis without the WSpec bonus. Should I focus on just one for the time being? I find surge and charge helpful even with only 1 rank, with 1611 I can have some success with charge it seems. Also debating feint, that could be really helpful if it would be effective at a low train.

For gear, just a 2x weapon, and 4x fusion brig that I plan on using until I get into Augmented Chain, I was planning on skipping Haubrek and going right to MBP after that. I am curious when would be a good time to start picking up ambush as well. For spell training I'm planning on going to 1635 and then probably pumping my armor skill up until I get to plate, then going back for some 100 spell training, it's pretty easy for me to get those from my friends currently so just don't see a rush to get there.

I picked up 5 ranks of MoC for the first unfocused MStrike which in the low level camps I've been doing has been awesome. Now that I've passed 10 though a lot of the casters in the camps are using e-wave so not sure if that mstrike and added RT are as valuable and I should wait until later trainings to pick it back up, or if I should actually try to continue training in it now? Below are my current stats/skills and my original stats. I have found my biggest issue so far being 1) not enough mana to keep spells/sigils running 2) not enough stamina. Again though my main priority is to use a lance ASAP in terms of my stats. Thanks for any and all feedback.

Level 0 Stats for Alaunyll, Dark Elf Paladin

Strength (STR): 80
Constitution (CON): 75
Dexterity (DEX): 80
Agility (AGI): 80
Discipline (DIS): 60
Aura (AUR): 60
Logic (LOG): 75
Intuition (INT): 60
Wisdom (WIS): 60
Influence (INF): 30

Name: Alaunyll Race: Dark Elf Profession: Paladin (not shown)
Gender: Female Age: 125 Expr: 197524 Level: 13
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 86 (18) ... 86 (18)
Constitution (CON): 79 (9) ... 79 (9)
Dexterity (DEX): 84 (27) ... 84 (27)
Agility (AGI): 84 (22) ... 84 (22)
Discipline (DIS): 66 (-2) ... 66 (-2)
Aura (AUR): 63 (16) ... 63 (16)
Logic (LOG): 76 (13) ... 76 (13)
Intuition (INT): 63 (11) ... 63 (11)
Wisdom (WIS): 66 (13) ... 66 (13)
Influence (INF): 41 (-9) ... 41 (-9)

Alaunyll (at level 13), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Combat Maneuvers...................| 58 12
Polearm Weapons....................| 114 28
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 82 18
Dodging............................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 70 15
Perception.........................| 50 10
Climbing...........................| 25 5

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 13

Alaunyll, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Charge charge 1
Specialization I wspec1 1
Surge of Strength surge 1

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 3

[DrZaius]

I've found Surge and Wspec to be underwhelming. Surge in particular; you can find much better cmans for the money than something that can only give you temporary AS and carrying capacity. I preferred the passive cmans that got me out of trouble, rather than active ones that marginally improved my offense.

I'd work on more dodge; 1x is going to be tough for a polearm user. I liked to get a few of the 100s (up to 103 or so) before I went into paladin, and catch up on Paladin to get 1625 at 25.

You've only got a 49 AGIDEX bonus; that's only -3 off RT. If you plan to use a lance (and you should plan to use a lance, just so we're clear); make sure to get it to 53 ASAP to get the maximum modifier as a dark elf. However, 49 isn't that far off from 53; and if you can survive not using a lance immediately it may make more sense to grow into it, rather than sacrificing other stats.

I personally went heavy into armor to try to get into MBP quickly, 2.5-3x. However, my Paladin was shield/blunt; so the math is a bit different.

Highlights:
* There are better cmans out there! Charge is good, Surge / Wspec are boring.
* More dodge; otherwise you'll regret it. 103 is a great spell, and worth getting early. You won't be using 1615 for a while.
* Not enough stamina means you need more PT! 1.5x wouldn't be a terrible plan.
* You're only 13; mana is going to be an issue. It will even itself out as you level.

I don't know enough about stats to give you more advice than that.

EDIT: Just reading krakipedia RQ, Charge, Feint, and Cunning Defense would be decent CMANs to think about. Focus on training one before the other; a variety of mediocre cmans is worse than 1 good one.

[Androidpk]

I'm going to disagree on the 1x dodge not being good enough. At lvl 63 (or somewhere around there) I have just under 1x dodge and it hasn't caused a single problem for me yet and I swing a claid. For a lance you'll be fine at 6 seconds for a long time. Definitely shoot for 2x PT.

[DrZaius]

I'm going to disagree on the 1x dodge not being good enough. At lvl 63 (or somewhere around there) I have just under 1x dodge and it hasn't caused a single problem for me yet and I swing a claid. For a lance you'll be fine at 6 seconds for a long time. Definitely shoot for 2x PT.

If you say so. (I'm not using sarcasm; I've only played sword/board paladins. If someone who has played a 2hander says 1x dodge is enough, then I'll take their word for it).

-DrZ

[thefarmer]

If you say so. (I'm not using sarcasm; I've only played sword/board paladins. If someone who has played a 2hander says 1x dodge is enough, then I'll take their word for it).

-DrZ

1x Dodge is plenty. Paladins are supposed to, and should, be in full plate which kills most dodge anyway. 1x'll give you enough dodge to get by and let your plate and semidux (when you get it) be your secondary defense and let you stand around long enough for your main defense (Huge ass AS) work.


As for training plans and stats and such, especially for pole/2hd builds, there's a ton of threads most of us have posted in here. Take a search.

[Alaunyll]

1x Dodge is plenty. Paladins are supposed to, and should, be in full plate which kills most dodge anyway. 1x'll give you enough dodge to get by and let your plate and semidux (when you get it) be your secondary defense and let you stand around long enough for your main defense (Huge ass AS) work.


As for training plans and stats and such, especially for pole/2hd builds, there's a ton of threads most of us have posted in here. Take a search.

Thank you for reminding me, I don't want y'all to feel like your other posts have gone ignored. I've read most every thread I could find about polearm paladins, and cman's and bonding in this section. That's where I got the basis for what I've started.

My main concerns are

1) Would reducing Str to improve my Agi or Dex bonus for a lance be a bad idea (given AndroidPK's reponse I'm thinking I don't want to mess with it, a 6 sec rt when group hunting won't get me killed, and I can make up some bonus with enhancives on a temp basis if it really bugs me) so mostly answered I think.

2) Does anyone see a glaring issue with the stat's like, damn that influence being so low is going to suck for XYZ that I don't know about, and I don't know much so break it to me easy.

3) As Dr.Zaius pointed out perhaps there are more useful CMAN's that I'm not aware of. I'm not familiar with CMAN's really, and just read in this form that that charge, trip. surge, sbash, wspec seem to be rather commonly used. So if there are suggestions or thoughts on CMAN's I'd just like to hear those, and more specifically if it's a better idea to focus my CMAN training or to spread it out as I'm doing presently.

4) While I've read a lot of the training guides, I am unfamiliar with a lot of these mechanics to a degree. Especially ambush, aiming I've seen through many posts is certainly useful for crit's it would seem and so I'd like to go that route, but I haven't seen anything as to when that training actually pays off and so when one should start training in it. I'm tight on TP at the moment so was thinking to save it until later unless someone were to point out that say with 10 ranks you could start aiming (exaggerated example) at which point I may want to reconsider training in it sooner.

Sorry if these questions were not clear, and maybe they are answered somewhere in one thread or another, but I have tried reading most anything I could find on the subjects in this section.

Thanks,

[Alaunyll]

Oh yeah question #5) Is 5 ranks of MoC a good or bad idea at this point? It was useful in early camps, but with e-wave and stuff now I'm not sure the added RT for unfocused is a good idea. Would I be better of dumping that in something like dodge/cman/pt and picking it back up later on, or keeping it as is for now. Kind of similar to my question about ambush, just when is a good time to work on this.

Thanks again

[lordsmo]

My THW Paladin stayed 1x in MOC until 35 ranks, giving me a 4-target mstrike, or a 2-swing focused mstrike. Mstrike is useful and fun, and combined with a high DF weapon will be devastating, especially if set up with 1630 first. MOC will also mitigate FoF DS pushdown, which is useful in warcamps or other swarmy areas. But if you are finding mstrike slow with a halberd, it's going to be even slower with a lance.

For offensive Cmans, pick one good set up maneuver and get it to rank 4 at least before getting anything else. It's better to have one maneuver that you can consistently generate good endrolls with, rather than several marginally effective ones. Charge is good, but slow. Feint is also good, and fast, and leaves you much less exposed. For a 3 second RT, you have a chance to put the critter in full offensive stance with 8 seconds of RT.

As for Surge, I personally find one rank to be worthwhile. Its main function for me is to extend my hunt by reducing encumberance when I get bogged down with treasure.

There's no cure for mana shortages except time. Sunfist sigils are just more demanding to run constantly than CoL signs. 2x PF will improve your stamina situation however, and will also provide maneuver defense and increase your redux at higher levels. 2x PF will also indirectly improve your mana situation, as increased stamina/stamina regen makes Sigil of Power more useable.

[lordsmo]

Also, with respect to your ambush question, I am not an expert in open aiming but here are a couple things to keep in mind:

The lance is the hardest weapon in the game to aim. My understanding is that producing consistent headshots will require large amounts of CM and 30-40 ranks of Ambush. The lance is also slow to aim. With max AGIDEX, a Dark Elf will still take 8 seconds for an aimed strike.

[Jace Solo]

A paladin can get by safely at .75x dodge.
Armor up as fast as you can.
Feint is amazing. Four ranks of that is worth it. CDef is probably next on the list. Then you can get charge up to four ranks as you're approaching 60-70s.
For spells, I think I went, 1619 then 120, then back up to bonding but depending on the weapon I was hoping to use I might go up to 1625 then back for 120.

My pally was Duel Wielding before I sold him off but he started out with the whole THW approach.

[Androidpk]

120 seems more like a goal to get when you're closer to cap. It's far more beneficial to get 1635 as soon as possible.

[Alaunyll]

Thank you, this was exactly the kind of information I was looking for, very helpful.

[Menos]

A few things pop into my head.

On stats, You're going to hit +53 combined dex/agi at level 24. You will be fine swinging a halberd/naginata/jeddart/HoK until then. I would however still drop both strength (to 60) and inf (to 20). Those extra points will let you move aura to 82, wisdom to 63, and int to 65 (or logic to 80 if you rather spend the last 5 points there). This will cost a little AS at lower levels (and nothing at all later) but is going to position you much better for higher levels in terms of TD/CS/DS (or exp gain if you do logic).

On Cmans, I am going to buck the group here a little bit and suggest you stick with the passive skills for now. The offensive skills (like charge, disarm, feint) are best when you can have 1.5x CM ranks, 1611 running, and 4+ ranks in the skill. For almost any paladin build, that is not remotely possible until past level 40. I would get toughness for sure, and mix in the early (lost cost) ranks of your favorite selection of other passive skills. I like wspec, but movement and surge are both popular as well. Once you can have 1.5x ranks per level and are high enough level to spend them on 4 ranks of the same skill, migrate over to charge+wspec (for the bonus to charge) or charge+toughness.

Aiming with polearms is something I am actually quite familiar with. As a paladin, I would not even consider ambush ranks until you are near or fully 2x in combat maneuvers. Both CM and ambush count the same in the ambush formula, but CM also gives Cman attack strength, CML points to spend, and AS. In my experience to aim the lighter poles well, you want something on the order of 150-200 aiming ranks (CM+ambush). So even if you start to sneak in some ambush later on, don't plan on doing a ton of aiming until your 60's. You can make it a bit easier by opening with 1615 (easier to aim at prone foes) and picking easier spots (like head instead of eyes), but make no mistake, aiming is a very late game strategy for a poler-paladin. To aim a lance, 303 aiming ranks is still not quite perfect (our max, and what my guy has).

MOC- If you have the points to spare, MOC is always nice. This is double true for high swarm grounds like warcamps where they can start to push your DS down. You can set your max mstrike number lower to avoid the high RTs if you need to.

For spells, If you are a loner, pick up 101, 102, and 103 and keep your paladin spells at one below level (max you can do without paying the 2x costs). Do not be afraid to use 102 when hunting with a pole against foes that either call wind or throw ranged attacks at you. If you have friends who can cast 101, 103, and 107 all the time for you, just stick with the paladin circle at your level and ignore the minor spirit circle. Keep up 1x spells until at least 38 ranks (1635, 103). After that you have to decide if you want to spend the points on more spells (107 and 120 are popular destinations after that) or if you want to spend them on getting armor to 150 ranks for full plate, MO up for focused mstrikes, or bringing CM up to 1.5x for Cman charge.

I suggest doing armor, then CM, then back to spells, then MO after the rest, but it is a matter of preference. I do armor first because my builds tend to be very defensively minded, CM next because Cman charge is so incredibly effective with a lance, then back to spells for protection, and ending last on Mstrike.

Dodge- 1x is the best you're going to be able to pay for before the cap and is where you should aim to get. You can even survive fine as low as .5x if you have friends/scrolls and must have the points somewhere else for your character build. I hate being that low though.

[Nathala Crane]

Just adding my voice to those praising Feint. It's great for opening a fight, delaying the casting of a spell, buying some time in a multi-opponent encounter, de-turtling a defensive mob - really, there's just so much you can do with it.