The Jihad vote.

[longshot]

It was brought up in the "stick a fork in Kerry" thread, and I thought it deserved it's own thread...

I too believe that given a choice between Bush and Kerry, the Islamicists would much rather have Bush.

Bush makes recruiting easy.

He started a war that many view as unjust, and illegal.

He, like his father, has gone to war to kill Islamic folk.

I'm not making a value judgement on Iraq.
I'm not saying the Iraq war was illegal.
I'm not saying that this is a valid reason to vote for John Kerry.

This is a perspective issue.

I'm just saying... if radical Islam needed a poster boy as a reason for existing, justification for doing all of the terrible things it does, Bush provides it. And some.

To put it in perspective,... if you wanted to mobilize republicans to vote, who would you want the Democratic candidate to be?

John Edwards? No way...

The word "Hillary" sends chills through the body.

This is my point.

People think that the arabs were for Kerry.

They aren't.

For every terrorist that's bombed, 10 other terrorists and his 30 cousins are ready to join the fight.

Bush helps fuel this anger... he is the scapegoat. (It's not his fault that Islamic countries base their wealth on the oil in the ground, and not their people... I'm not suggesting it's Bush's fault).

Think about this before you respond. I saw Dave (Edine) say that the opinion I express is horseshit. You may think so too.

I want to reiterate that this is NOT in any way a reason to have voted for Kerry.

I'm curious what you think.

Please try to stay on topic.

[Edited on 11-5-2004 by HarmNone]

[Betheny]

I don't think you're wrong.

However, I believe no opinion is wrong.

No one can really know what these people think. I'm not Islamic, I'm not from Iraq or Afghanistan...

[Edaarin]

Originally posted by longshot
I saw Dave (Edine) say that the opinion I express is horseshit.

Oh, sweet irony.

[Delirium]

I can see both sides. If Bush wins recruiting will be easy and it will be easier to manipulate him into action. On the other hand if Kerry wins i dont think he would be as "hard" and their plotting and planning could get by easier to set up something big. Guess it all depends on what the terrorists priorities are. Just my 2 cents.

[SiKWiDiT]

Just because Bush 'may' give them a scapegot or a reason to do the things that they do, does not make the things that they do right.

I'm all for someone that's willing to stand up and kick some ass whenever it needs kicking, whether it be Republican or Democrat.

[Keller]

Originally posted by SiKWiDiT
Just because Bush 'may' give them a scapegot or a reason to do the things that they do, does not make the things that they do right.

I'm all for someone that's willing to stand up and kick some ass whenever it needs kicking, whether it be Republican or Democrat.

He asked you to specifically not make comments such as these.

[Nakiro]

Terrorist (not necessarily point at any arab culture) need no reason or justification for their scapegoat.

[Back]

Bush in office could be motivation for them to recuit. But, on the other hand, it might freak them out. Think about it. From their perspective there is an entire country, America at that, that voted the man back into office.

The rest of the world has pretty much formed the opinion that he is a dumb cowboy. There have been protests worldwide about his decision to go into Iraq, WTF protests, NAFTA and the list goes on. Al Queda must’ve been emboldened by this world opinion. Not saying it is a majority opinion, but it has been voiced very loudly. Now America has said it wants him back.

It could be they did want Kerry so the fighting could stop. They could all take a break, chill with the fam, bathe, go back to their women, sleep in nice beds again...

We’ll never know how things could have gone, or would have gone, at this point. The die is cast, and we await the numbers.

[Parkbandit]

Talk to Saddam's two sons and ask them who they would prefer.

Oh wait.. you can't.

First off.. who the hell cares?

Second of all, I think you have completely gone mad since Kerry lost.

I agree with PB here. Also, we can all sit and try to blame America for terrorist actions all we want, but the fact is, these people need to take responsibility for what they do.

- Arkans

[Cayge]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Talk to Saddam's two sons and ask them who they would prefer.

Oh wait.. you can't.


HAHAHAHA. Although I largely disagree with your conservative views, that was just fucking hilarious. Just thought I'd point that out.

Edited to note that Jihad is a funny word, I like to blurt it out on OOC every now and again.

[Edited on 11-5-2004 by Cayge]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Cayge

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Talk to Saddam's two sons and ask them who they would prefer.

Oh wait.. you can't.


HAHAHAHA. Although I largely disagree with your conservative views, that was just fucking hilarious. Just thought I'd point that out.



I will get you converted into a Republican yet... this is merely the first step. Comforting the enemy.

My plan issssss working perfectly.

COBRA!

[xtc]

Longshot it is rare that I agree with you but here we see eye to eye.

Jihad is a fun word to yell out. I do it often.

JIHAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Arkans

PS: I have a game.. WWIII. You can play as Iraq and they yell thin

[xtc]

As an aside I thought I would post the meaning of Jihad. First off it isn't a pillar of Islam. Jihad means struggle and primarily refers to the struggle within one's self to be better person. The secondary meaning is to defend Islam when attacked.

[Latrinsorm]

What's an Islamicist?

I'd say the informed terrorists wouldn't much care either way who won. It's not like Kerry was going to radically change American policy. The uninformed ones are unpredictable.

I also think you purposefully blurred/eradicated the line between Muslim and terrorist, and that wasn't cool.

[Back]

I always thought Jihad was the traditional word for holy war.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Backlash
I always thought Jihad was the traditional word for holy war.
Oh it is, that alternate definition came from the original meaning. IE: I'm having a jihad against my alcoholism. Calling it anything other than a holy way is a hippy way of defending Islam.

[longshot]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

I'd say the informed terrorists wouldn't much care either way who won. It's not like Kerry was going to radically change American policy. The uninformed ones are unpredictable.

I'm not talking about an individual.

I'm talking about the movement.

I'm talking about the extremist element of Islam gaining acceptance from the mainstream.

This is not an attack on Bush... there's no need to defend him. And you're right, Kerry might not have altered foreign policies.

But, do you think Kerry drums up the same images of injust oppresion that Bush does?

If you do, you're kidding yourself.

I'm not saying that the current state of Islam is the fault of Bush... they are the sorriest fuckers on the planet for a different reason: themselves.

Of course they are going to blame America... it's easy.

[HarmNone]

Hookay. Islam, in and of itself, is NOT the "sorriest" anything. It is a religion...a set of beliefs, just like Christianity, or Judaism, or Catholiscism, or Hinduism. Because it is not YOUR belief system, and because it might not espouse those things that your religion (or lack of same) espouses, does not make it less. It simply makes it different.

There are idiots from every walk of life. There are those who feel that their way is the only way and all who do not follow it should die. We've got 'em here, and they've got 'em there. By lumping all of anything together and calling it "sorry", we only feed into the same hatred and bigotry we're supposedly standing against.

[Chelle]

I don't agree about a religion being sorry, its just some people don't even understand their own religion and become extremists.

Also....

Uh, I must go take my temperature, for I find myself agreeing with longshot in his first post of this thread. I think I need to go take a shower, and a nap and pretend it was just a dream. Yeah, thats it.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by longshot
But, do you think Kerry drums up the same images of injust oppresion that Bush does?I know you said there's no need to defend Bush, but I don't think the kind of people who would be swayed by that kind of propoganda really care who they're burning in effigy. It can't be that hard to make a bad guy out of Kerry, look what happened right here in America.
Originally posted by Chelle
Uh, I must go take my temperature, for I find myself agreeing with longshot in his first post of this thread. I think I need to go take a shower, and a nap and pretend it was just a dream. Yeah, thats it.When he's not being a bigot or a drunken asshole, longshot makes some pretty good points. :yes:

[longshot]

I don't mean to come off as a bigot.

I'm not.

I do believe that this "war on terror" is synonomous with a war on Fundamentalist Islam.

It's a danger that people need to understand.

Now, disputes between groups for strictly political reasons can more easily be Islamified. There are many examples of this.

Chechnya, Palestine, Phillipines, the South of Thailand...

So, I'm sorry if I came off as a bigot. It's just when you look at the big picture, it's quite frightening. It costs us a fortune to go to war. It costs them nothing to pop out kids on UN food aid.

It is a war of attrition. Bush helps rally the other side better than the other guy. That's all I'm trying to say.

You bring up a good point that whoever the president is will be hated. This is true. However, there will be no hesitation by mainstream Muslims to embrace a violent movement that they feel is growing incresingly necessary to counter American intervention and Western influence.

As for me being a drunken asshole sometimes... well, you take the good with the bad.:saint:

[longshot]

Originally posted by HarmNone

There are idiots from every walk of life. There are those who feel that their way is the only way and all who do not follow it should die. We've got 'em here, and they've got 'em there. By lumping all of anything together and calling it "sorry", we only feed into the same hatred and bigotry we're supposedly standing against.

Yes, but they have their own cooky Islamic republics where all the idiots can congregate and subjugate those that aren't like them...

Fine.

As long as there is oil in the ground, they can keep their women in bee keeper suits, and ship people back to their own countries when they die, because it is illegal to perform burial rights.

But, when they come into democratic settings and attempt to erode it the country from within? Taking advantage of the very civil liberties which they seek to destroy through Caliphate and Fatwah?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1345678,00.html

This is just the beginning for Europe. It can happen here if we let it.

They do not respect democratic ideals. There is an inherent contradiction.