If you've got a business, you didn't build that!- Obama

[Wrathbringer]

The White House has released the transcript of President Obama’s recent speech in Roanoke, Virginia, and it holds a number of noteworthy statements.

“Channeling Elizabeth Warren,” in the words of Jazz Shaw at Hot Air, Barack Obama said that successful Americans “didn’t get there” on their own.

The official transcript relates:

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
He continued:

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

What an idiot. I'm not amazed that he said this. I'm not. I just find it hard it hard to believe that he thought it was cool to say this. Wait, wait, no, I don't find this hard to believe. This is about right. This is the guy that recently said, "When working people do well, everybody does well." What an idiot. The fact that this guy will still get votes in November is disheartening.

[TheEschaton]

Are you successful?

Did you do it on your own?

Do you have an IQ above 90?

[WRoss]

I'm with the E on this one. How's your reading comprehension? He's simply saying that there are a lot of things that had to come together in order for your business to be successful, such as roads and bridges.

[ClydeR]

The White House has released the transcript of President Obama’s recent speech in Roanoke, Virginia, and it holds a number of noteworthy statements.

“Channeling Elizabeth Warren,” in the words of Jazz Shaw at Hot Air, Barack Obama said that successful Americans “didn’t get there” on their own.

The official transcript relates:

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t — look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.
He continued:

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

What an idiot. I'm not amazed that he said this. I'm not. I just find it hard it hard to believe that he thought it was cool to say this. Wait, wait, no, I don't find this hard to believe. This is about right. This is the guy that recently said, "When working people do well, everybody does well." What an idiot. The fact that this guy will still get votes in November is disheartening.


I can't remember the last time I was this offended.

[Latrinsorm]

It's obviously true, but it's probably not too prudent, because there are plenty of people like Wrathbringer who view it as a personal insult, not to mention fake people like ClydeR.

[Wrathbringer]

Are you successful?

Did you do it on your own?

Do you have an IQ above 90?

Yes, yes, 140. Your point?

[Wrathbringer]

I'm with the E on this one. How's your reading comprehension? He's simply saying that there are a lot of things that had to come together in order for your business to be successful, such as roads and bridges.

That's ridiculous. Using that logic, we all owe Christopher Columbus for our successful businesses since hey, if he hadn't discovered America, we wouldn't have these businesses. Get real.

[Showal]

It's obviously true, but it's probably not too prudent, because there are plenty of people like Wrathbringer who view it as a personal insult, not to mention fake people like ClydeR.

Virtually anything ClydeR gets offended by is not cause for offense.

[Showal]

That's ridiculous. Using that logic, we all owe Christopher Columbus for our successful businesses since hey, if he hadn't discovered America, we wouldn't have these businesses. Get real.

A man is not an island!!!!!!

[diethx]

Yes, yes, 140. Your point?

Maybe time to start acting like it.

[Wrathbringer]

Maybe time to start acting like it.

If you folks can't see the socialist agenda in those comments, I can't help you.

[Parkbandit]

I'm with the E on this one. How's your reading comprehension? He's simply saying that there are a lot of things that had to come together in order for your business to be successful, such as roads and bridges.

I have to question your reading comprehension. Obama is saying that there is nothing special about individuals.. that anyone could have done what successful people did in the past given the same set of circumstances.

That's bullshit, plain and simple.

[Latrinsorm]

I have to question your reading comprehension. Obama is saying that there is nothing special about individuals.. that anyone could have done what successful people did in the past given the same set of circumstances.Let's also consider the President's first paragraph:
-I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there.
-It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

Our context is a smart, hardworking person who happens to be successful. I'm glad I could help clear this up for you. :)

[4a6c1]

Yes, yes, 140. Your point?

http://www.thegimcrackmiscellany.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/rofl.jpg

[Lord Orbstar]

You cannot explain the thought process of an independant thinker and conservative to our liberal/socialist leaning compatriots here. It is a sad truth of our society that is dragging us all down.

They cannot satisfactorily explain their position to us either. that is why we have two parties following differing paths to what each of us consider the end result of "success". I dont want help or interference with my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness; liberals think it is the collective duty to help all and ensure a fair world (or their version of fair) in same said pursuit.

[Wrathbringer]

You cannot explain the thought process of an independant thinker and conservative to our liberal/socialist leaning compatriots here. It is a sad truth of our society that is dragging us all down.

They cannot satisfactorily explain their position to us either. that is why we have two parties following differing paths to what each of us consider the end result of "success". I dont want help or interference with my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness; liberals think it is the collective duty to help all and ensure a fair world (or their version of fair) in same said pursuit.

True, but you'd think they could at least do basic math and see that their ideas aren't sustainable. See: Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, etc...

[WRoss]

I have to question your reading comprehension. Obama is saying that there is nothing special about individuals.. that anyone could have done what successful people did in the past given the same set of circumstances.

That's bullshit, plain and simple.

I see him saying that successful people didn't get their all on their own. They had teachers who taught them and used public infrastructure to become successful. Does that mean that you don't have to work your ass off to be successful? Not at all. Sure, maybe some people are born "silver spoon in hand". I just think this thing is blown way out of proportion.

[Parkbandit]

I see him saying that successful people didn't get their all on their own. They had teachers who taught them and used public infrastructure to become successful. Does that mean that you don't have to work your ass off to be successful? Not at all. Sure, maybe some people are born "silver spoon in hand". I just think this thing is blown way out of proportion.

I think it goes more to his "Collectivism" thought process. He honestly believes in the socialist / communist theory.. he believes in collective salvation. It's all about the entire group and not individuals.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing.. I'm saying it's just not based in reality. I simply don't believe that if you put me in a room with all the roads, Internet and other "blessings" from other people, that I could create the next generation of super computer.

[Wrathbringer]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/179132_10151039977511575_2112823652_n.jpg

[ClydeR]

I see him saying that successful people didn't get their all on their own. They had teachers who taught them and used public infrastructure to become successful. Does that mean that you don't have to work your ass off to be successful? Not at all. Sure, maybe some people are born "silver spoon in hand". I just think this thing is blown way out of proportion.

Oh please! Now you have jumped the shark, as they say. It is abundantly evident to every thinking person that many, many people, like Mitt Romney, go through their whole lives without any government employed teachers. People without government teachers tend to turn out just fine.

As Mitt Romney said, people should be able to get all the education they can afford (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7RDXPyuy8). If you can't afford it, you should borrow the money from your parents, Romney said (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1t6IkWPMRQ). It's not the place of government to equalize the playing field.

Obama just finished paying off his government subsidized student loans a few years before he was elected president. Is he really the kind of person we want running the country?

Don't even get me started on that business about roads.

[TheEschaton]

I'm not saying that's a bad thing.. I'm saying it's just not based in reality. I simply don't believe that if you put me in a room with all the roads, Internet and other "blessings" from other people, that I could create the next generation of super computer.

That's literally not what he's saying. At all. I love how you guys wail and gnash your teeth and cry "Reading Comprehension fail!" when you can't even understand pretty clear paragraphs like that one.

[Parkbandit]

That's literally not what he's saying. At all. I love how you guys wail and gnash your teeth and cry "Reading Comprehension fail!" when you can't even understand pretty clear paragraphs like that one.

No one is crying.

No one is gnashing teeth.

And read the post I was referring to when I posted reading comprehension.

Is anyone at all surprised that you are defending Obama and the liberal agenda? I doubt it.

But as usual, thank you for your very, very valuable contribution. :blah: http://www.mvagusta.net/forum/images/smilies/jerkoff.gif

[TheEschaton]

No, I'm defending reality versus your idiocy. Sorry.

[Parkbandit]

No, I'm defending reality versus your idiocy. Sorry.

You using the term "reality" or "idiocy" should be against the ToS of this forum, given your posting history.

[Tgo01]

The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

Wait the government invented the internet so all companies could make money off the internet?

[Latrinsorm]

I think it goes more to his "Collectivism" thought process. He honestly believes in the socialist / communist theory.. he believes in collective salvation. It's all about the entire group and not individuals.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing.. I'm saying it's just not based in reality. I simply don't believe that if you put me in a room with all the roads, Internet and other "blessings" from other people, that I could create the next generation of super computer.I can't help but feel you're intentionally missing the point.

What the President is saying is that no one succeeds entirely on their own. This does not imply that their success is entirely due to the group's efforts. The point is that any one today who makes a modern super computer or performs brain surgery or would be incapable of doing so without infrastructure, history, etc. that is entirely beyond their control. That they could not succeed without X does not imply X is the [i]only condition for success.

If the President had said "every human who succeeds has to breathe oxygen", it would be very silly to blast the President for claiming a person only has to breathe oxygen to succeed.

[Bobmuhthol]

It's pretty disturbing how retarded conservatives are. I don't like Obama and I understand exactly what he's actually saying (not what I want to pretend), just like anyone with a fucking brain should.

[4a6c1]

But don't you ever just wake up and say, "I really want to blow shit out of proportion today." I know I do.

[Warriorbird]

You cannot explain the thought process of an independant thinker and conservative to our liberal/socialist leaning compatriots here. It is a sad truth of our society that is dragging us all down.

They cannot satisfactorily explain their position to us either. that is why we have two parties following differing paths to what each of us consider the end result of "success". I dont want help or interference with my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness; liberals think it is the collective duty to help all and ensure a fair world (or their version of fair) in same said pursuit.

I understand you want a cross between the 1890s and the Articles of Confederation, I just played Bioshock.

[Warriorbird]

That's ridiculous. Using that logic, we all owe Christopher Columbus for our successful businesses since hey, if he hadn't discovered America, we wouldn't have these businesses. Get real.

Without customers, business doesn't exist. If the entrepreneur doesn't have teachers and mentors, business doesn't exist. If the entrepreneur has no roads or no routers, business doesn't exist.

This doesn't mean the entrepreneur hasn't done anything. How hard is this to grasp?

[Latrinsorm]

About 10 minutes after I made that post it occurred to me how to make the point much more briefly...

Necessary
Sufficient

The end.

[Parkbandit]

I can't help but feel you're intentionally missing the point.

What the President is saying is that no one succeeds entirely on their own. This does not imply that their success is entirely due to the group's efforts. The point is that any one today who makes a modern super computer or performs brain surgery or would be incapable of doing so without infrastructure, history, etc. that is entirely beyond their control. That they could not succeed without X does not imply X is the [I]only condition for success.

If the President had said "every human who succeeds has to breathe oxygen", it would be very silly to blast the President for claiming a person only has to breathe oxygen to succeed.

No one is claiming that someone creates a business ENTIRELY on their own, but that idea.. that drive.. that hard work is what got it there.

But you are right.. without oxygen, those businesses would never have been created. We should all thank the mighty OXYGEN for allowing us to create businesses.

[Parkbandit]

It's pretty disturbing how retarded conservatives are. I don't like Obama and I understand exactly what he's actually saying (not what I want to pretend), just like anyone with a fucking brain should.

I suppose you will take this back, after Rush Limbaugh uncovered the truth about the new Batman movie.. saying the villain "Bane" was brought to the big screen at this time to remind us how evil Bain Capital is and help the Obama re-election campaign.

IN YOUR FACE!

[crb]

If everyone could start a successful business, invent something, write a bestseller, everyone WOULD do these things.

I know people who have absolutely no ambition to improve their lot in life from one of doing menial jobs requiring no education. This people are not the same as successful people.

There is an underlying philosophical problem where progressives tend to think you owe your success to your government, your wealth to the government, your job to the government. They are entitled to all the benefit of your economic output, and anything they let you keep through the tax code is a gift from them to you. Fiscal conservatives/libertarians/classical liberals, believe the opposite. You own your success, you own your economic output, the government is not entitled to anything from you, and anything it does take, it is in fact taking from you, so it better have a good damn reason to do so.

In a free society the government does not own your success, own your economic output, or own your productivity. Quite the opposite in fact, you own the government, not the other way around.

It is also disingenuous to use examples like roads and bridges and the Internet (which was invented at the defense department, a part of government progressives like cutting, and would have been invented anyways). For one, the best roads you'll ever drive on are toll roads. Smooth and well maintained. But really, no one dislikes government spending on roads. Everyone likes roads. If you want to cut government spending you're always against roads and bridges. Maybe, just maybe, you'd like instead to cut Solyndras, transfer payments, bureaucracy, etc. It is also disingenuous to claim that a business owner owes more to road than any other private citizen. So the grocery store owner wouldn't be able to sell products without roads, okay, and the grocery store shopper wouldn't be able to buy food without roads. I don't see how one owes more to roads than the other. You can't live without food, afterall. But can you really expect anything but disingenuous propaganda from an intellectually bankrupt economics position?

I mean, come on, who honestly thinks raising taxes will increase job creation? If only taxes were higher the economy would be better? To honestly favor tax increases you must either believe that higher taxes will help the economy, or that government bureaucrats can more efficiently spend money, despite moral hazard, than private individuals who earned the money. Or, you must simply not care about the economy and just want to punish successful people and increase the tax burden (burden, not rate) of 65% that the top 5% currently shoulder into something more. Progressives would never admit it, but ultimately they're the latter, they'd rather have a "fair" system where the rich pay everything and the poor pay nothing, as narrow a base as possible, and they don't care if they'd hurt the economy and everyone in it to get there. Their notion of fair is more important to them than economic growth.

That is your choice in November.

[Fallen]

It is also disingenuous to claim that a business owner owes more to road than any other private citizen. So the grocery store owner wouldn't be able to sell products without roads, okay, and the grocery store shopper wouldn't be able to buy food without roads. I don't see how one owes more to roads than the other. You can't live without food, afterall.

I don't usually make daily trips with my fleet of semis to/from the grocery store to pick up my goods. Maybe some do, like Stanley or something, but I dont.

[Wrathbringer]

Without customers, business doesn't exist. If the entrepreneur doesn't have teachers and mentors, business doesn't exist. If the entrepreneur has no roads or no routers, business doesn't exist.

This doesn't mean the entrepreneur hasn't done anything. How hard is this to grasp?

You've aptly illustrated a very basic concept that should go without saying. Obama is a great speaker. If he'd wanted to just be Captain Obvious and state what you just did, he could have. Why didn't he? Why did he go the extra mile and state, "You didn't build that" and "It's not because you're smart" and "It's not because you work hard?"

It's because the guy discounts personal intelligence and hard work in favor of daddy government and his socialist agenda. How hard is this to grasp?

[Back]

You've aptly illustrated a very basic concept that should go without saying. Obama is a great speaker. If he'd wanted to just be Captain Obvious and state what you just did, he could have. Why didn't he? Why did he go the extra mile and state, "You didn't build that" and "It's not because you're smart" and "It's not because you work hard?"

It's because the guy discounts personal intelligence and hard work in favor of daddy government and his socialist agenda. How hard is this to grasp?

Dude, overreact much? All he was (poorly) attempting to say was we are all in this together from the bottom to the top and from the top to the bottom. We, Americans together, have accomplished much that we all benefit from. All income levels, all races, all creeds, government and private.

[Wrathbringer]

Dude, overreact much? All he was (poorly) attempting to say was we are all in this together from the bottom to the top and from the top to the bottom. We, Americans together, have accomplished much that we all benefit from. All income levels, all races, all creeds, government and private.

I don't believe Obama poorly says anything. He's too smart and too good of an orator. If he wanted to say what you just did, he could have done so without all the rest I mentioned. I certainly agree with your statement. Perhaps you're a better orator than Obama?

[stormcrow]

I think the problem here is that the government does not produce any money. The roads, internet and all these things that Obama claims were made by the government were actually funded by the taxpayers. So the guy who made the business and paid taxes actually built the roads since he paid for them. So the statement should have been the government didn't do anything on it's own and all the things the government has been able to do was because of all the hard working Americans that sent in their taxes to fund all these projects.

[Parkbandit]

Everyone likes roads except all the Republicans who complained about Obama investing in them and bridges, crb.

It's also hardly just "the government" but more society as a whole. You only think about yourself though, so you don't get it. You wouldn't have a business without customers either.

Lulz.

REPUBLICANS HATE ROADS AND BRIDGES!!!

[Warriorbird]

Lulz.

REPUBLICANS HATE ROADS AND BRIDGES!!!

LOLZ blocking infrastructure spending!

[Keller]

Yes, yes, 140. Your point?

Tamral?

Only Tamral would answer the yes/no question "Do you have an IQ above 90" with his made-up IQ.

[Keller]

That's ridiculous. Using that logic, we all owe Christopher Columbus for our successful businesses since hey, if he hadn't discovered America, we wouldn't have these businesses. Get real.

If reincarnation is the afterlife, I hope you come back as a Mongolian herder, but have the distinct memory of the really, REALLY stupid shit you said in this thread.

[Parkbandit]

LOLZ blocking infrastructure spending!

So, if someone doesn't want to spend money on something, that automatically means they hate it.

Is that seriously your position?

[Wrathbringer]

If reincarnation is the afterlife, I hope you come back as a Mongolian herder, but have the distinct memory of the really, REALLY stupid shit you said in this thread.

Was there a rebuttal in there somewhere or are you conceding my position and resorting to insults per your norm?

[Warriorbird]

So, if someone doesn't want to spend money on something, that automatically means they hate it.

Is that seriously your position?

You were the only one who brought the word hate into this exchange. Telling, that.

[Keller]

Was there a rebuttal in there somewhere or are you conceding my position and resorting to insults per your norm?

No rebuttal; no insults.

I merely hope you have the opportunity to be something other than a white male born into the most powerful/industrialized/wealthy nation in the world. That way you can work really hard herding sheep and see how far you go in life.

[Showal]

Can we all just calm the fuck down and realize how far stretched Obama's statement has gotten in this thread? If not, let me know so I can join in with even more absurd posts and bring this party to the next level.

[Delias]

That's ridiculous. Using that logic, we all owe Christopher Columbus for our successful businesses since hey, if he hadn't discovered America, we wouldn't have these businesses. Get real.

Please google L'anse aux Meadows.

[Back]

Can we all just calm the fuck down and realize how far stretched Obama's statement has gotten in this thread? If not, let me know so I can join in with even more absurd posts and bring this party to the next level.

Hey we haven't had a good political thread blowout in while, you banana-eating mother-fucker!

[Keller]

Hey we haven't had a good political thread blowout in while, you banana-eating mother-fucker!

Slayed me.

[Delias]

Slayed me.

Sounds like a hate-crime.

[Wrathbringer]

No rebuttal; no insults.

I merely hope you have the opportunity to be something other than a white male born into the most powerful/industrialized/wealthy nation in the world. That way you can work really hard herding sheep and see how far you go in life.

Hmm, so this is about race for you and you're implying it's about race for Obama as well? Or wait, no, this is about you believing that hard work gets one nowhere and that's what Obama was saying? Discussions go better when you flesh out your position with clear and concise relevant points rather than disguising your points, if any, in veiled and bigoted personal attacks that leave them well open to personal interpretation. Could you try that next time?

[Keller]

Hmm, so this is about race for you and you're implying it's about race for Obama as well? Or wait, no, this is about you believing that hard work gets one nowhere and that's what Obama was saying? Discussions go better when you flesh out your position with clear and concise relevant points rather than disguising your points, if any, in veiled and bigoted personal attacks that leave them well open to personal interpretation. Could you try that next time?

(i) You are a pretentious and arrogant individual to have said that you are successful on your own.

(ii) If there is such a thing as an afterlife, I hope that you are born into a station in life where you don't have all of the benefits you've enjoyed in your current life, but have taken for granted, and that you are aware of the statements you made in your current life that portrayed you as a pretentious and arrogant individual.

It's really quite simple and I'm disappointed someone with your IQ needed it explained in such painstaking detail.

[Latrinsorm]

No one is claiming that someone creates a business ENTIRELY on their ownStop here, because that is all the President is saying. Everything else is kerfuffle.
There is an underlying philosophical problem where progressives tend to think you owe your success to your government, your wealth to the government, your job to the government. They are entitled to all the benefit of your economic output, and anything they let you keep through the tax code is a gift from them to you. Fiscal conservatives/libertarians/classical liberals, believe the opposite. You own your success, you own your economic output, the government is not entitled to anything from you, and anything it does take, it is in fact taking from you, so it better have a good damn reason to do so.

In a free society the government does not own your success, own your economic output, or own your productivity. Quite the opposite in fact, you own the government, not the other way around.Do you really feel that either extreme could possibly be correct? For that matter, do you really feel that anyone literally believes either extreme?
For one, the best roads you'll ever drive on are toll roads.This may be true in Michigan (you live there, right?), but it is not true everywhere in America. Just look at I 95. It's miserable in Providence but great in eastern Connecticut, even though both stretches are entirely non-toll. Route 8 is a great drive, no tolls. The Merritt had tolls before my time but it was supposedly worse then, then good in the recent past, and now they're intentionally ruining it - that's state government for you.
You've aptly illustrated a very basic concept that should go without saying. Obama is a great speaker. If he'd wanted to just be Captain Obvious and state what you just did, he could have. Why didn't he? Why did he go the extra mile and state, "You didn't build that" and "It's not because you're smart" and "It's not because you work hard?"

It's because the guy discounts personal intelligence and hard work in favor of daddy government and his socialist agenda. How hard is this to grasp?There are some posts I have made that I look back on and regret. I have a feeling this post will fit that bill for you.

What the President said was that 'it's not just because you're smart', 'it's not just because you work hard'. (Please note how I am using single quotes, because we are both paraphrasing.) To go back to what I said before, these conditions are not sufficient for success. Everybody knows this! Everybody knows someone who's really smart, hard worker, never succeeded in life for whatever reason. But when the President says it you people are outraged, outraged! It's pretty sad.

[Wrathbringer]

(i) You are a pretentious and arrogant individual to have said that you are successful on your own.

(ii) If there is such a thing as an afterlife, I hope that you are born into a station in life where you don't have all of the benefits you've enjoyed in your current life, but have taken for granted, and that you are aware of the statements you made in your current life that portrayed you as a pretentious and arrogant individual.

It's really quite simple and I'm disappointed someone with your IQ needed it explained in such painstaking detail.

Yes, yes, I understand you're upset with me because of my position and that you believe I'm wrong. Please explain how these "points" you've made are pertinent to the OP we're currently discussing? Or are you not attempting to regard Obama's statements at all?

[g++]

I think what Keller is saying is pretty obvious. Maybe we just communicate in a lower level language...here

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/pjaaay1/220px-RavenMatrix.gif

That should clear it up.

[Keller]

Yes, yes, I understand you're upset with me because of my position and that you believe I'm wrong. Please explain how these "points" you've made are pertinent to the OP we're currently discussing? Or are you not attempting to regard Obama's statements at all?

I am not upset with you. I think you are a pretentious and arrogant individual.

I do not believe you are wrong, I know you are wrong.

The points I've made are pertinent to the OP insomuch as the OP is about how the President believes no one is successful based on hard work and intelligence alone, and you have stated that you are successful on your own.

I do not feel that I need to address the President's comments because they are unquestionably true. It is clear you think there is some question whether they are true, and that is precisely why I hope that you may be born as the smartest, hardest working son of a sheep herder in the history of Mongolia, so that you may prove all of us wrong.

I hope I've laid out my response in a simple enough way that a man of your (self-professed) intelligence will understand it.

[Androidpk]

I do not feel that I need to address the President's comments because they are unquestionably true.

I thought you were smarter than that, guess not.

[Wrathbringer]

I am not upset with you. I think you are a pretentious and arrogant individual.

I do not believe you are wrong, I know you are wrong.

The points I've made are pertinent to the OP insomuch as the OP is about how the President believes no one is successful based on hard work and intelligence alone, and you have stated that you are successful on your own.

I do not feel that I need to address the President's comments because they are unquestionably true. It is clear you think there is some question whether they are true, and that is precisely why I hope that you may be born as the smartest, hardest working son of a sheep herder in the history of Mongolia, so that you may prove all of us wrong.

I hope I've laid out my response in a simple enough way that a man of your (self-professed) intelligence will understand it.

Ok, so you're not addressing the OP. Thanks for trolling. As for your position on success, is the obverse also true? If you fail, it's everyone else's fault, not yours? Or, as others have suggested, to not put it so exclusively, if you fail is it mostly everyone else's fault? I happily own my success and failures. That's called, "taking responsibility" for my actions. I know no one wants to do that anymore (especially Obama. "I tried! It's the House's fault! Gimme 4 more!), but if I do otherwise I do myself a disservice, as I believe you do. We'll agree to disagree.

[Keller]

As for your position on success, is the obverse also true? If you fail, it's everyone else's fault, not yours?

I realize you're really smart and logical, so I'm probably setting myself up to be embarrassed by your rationale, but what caused you to suggest I'd think the "obverse" is true?

It is a very basic observation that we are not solely responsible for our successes, but that we should be grateful for our opportunity to be successful. There are people, institutions, and basic societal infrastructure, that has provided us the opportunity to be successful. I recognize that I am successful because I've been placed in a position that has allowed my hard work and natural intelligence to be recognized and rewarded.

It takes a very conceited and ungrateful individual to take full credit for their success. I am not one of those people.

Are you?

[Androidpk]

I guess we should thank Keller's mom for spreading her legs to allow him to post on these forums.

[g++]

Its not a logically correct argument to begin with.

The obverse of "no one is successful based on hard work and intelligence alone" is not "If you fail, its everyone else's fault". The second phrase is in no way related to the first...at all.

[Keller]

I guess we should thank Keller's mom for spreading her legs to allow him to post on these forums.

Should I pass along your gratitude?

[Androidpk]

Should I pass along your gratitude?

ASAP

[Parkbandit]

You were the only one who brought the word hate into this exchange. Telling, that.

Let me rephrase then:

So your position is that if someone doesn't want to spend money on something, that automatically means they DISLIKE it?

[Parkbandit]

I think you are a pretentious and arrogant individual.

I do not believe you are wrong, I know you are wrong.

lulz.

[SHAFT]

Well I heard the chick from Total Recall with 3 boobs is real and you can pet the third one for 20 bucks if you find her.

[Jarvan]

I have a question for all the Obama defenders on here.

My family on my mothers side are farmers, have always been farmers. Some of them are American Indian, and frankly have been here LONGER then the Government, farming.

Are they Successful farmers due to help from Society and the Government? Is the only way the food they grow is eaten because Society helped them or made it possible? They delivered and sold food Before roads and bridges. Hell, even the Colonies had businesses before government roads and bridges. I am sure if we looked hard we could find some businesses still left over from before the founding of our country, do those count? Since we didn't build the roads and bridges at the time that they were created?

I understand what Obama was trying to say, No one accomplished all that they do on their own. THAT being said.. Have any of you people ever watched Kitchen Nightmares?

50 different people can open a new Restaurant. Each one of them Can be smart, and Hardworking. Does that really mean that all 50 will succeed? They each have all the same advantages, All have roads, all had teachers. So why do some fail? Far as I can tell, I am sure Obama would think it wasn't their fault. It must be Societies fault for not eating there as much, even if their food sucked, and their kitchen was disgusting.

If a contractor builds a shoddy deck and it falls apart, and his business fails, I am sure it is all our fault for not teaching him the right way, nor using his service more without complaining.

I take it if I or someone else, where to figure out cold fusion, and build a small reactor that produces unlimited energy, or figured out FTL travel thru space, I am sure that wasn't something we did. It was all due to the Government. I don't see why I should follow any patent laws at all anymore, since after all, they were only able to do that with help from MY government that I pay taxes for. So frankly, they owe me for the ability to have done what they did.

I would like my checks mailed to me now please.

[Bobmuhthol]

Okay, you might think your family has been around longer than the government, but you haven't. So there's my answer, as an Obama defender.


50 different people can open a new Restaurant. Each one of them Can be smart, and Hardworking. Does that really mean that all 50 will succeed? They each have all the same advantages, All have roads, all had teachers. So why do some fail? Far as I can tell, I am sure Obama would think it wasn't their fault. It must be Societies fault for not eating there as much, even if their food sucked, and their kitchen was disgusting.

Arguing against a negation is really pointless, so I am highlighting this as something to completely ignore.

Furthermore, why is everyone attacking Obama by saying things like, "The government didn't feed my dog who then went on to run four simultaneous cat murdering businesses"? At no point did Obama say that the government is responsible for progress. He very, very obviously said that society is.

[Deathravin]

I have to question your reading comprehension. Obama is saying that there is nothing special about individuals.. that anyone could have done what successful people did in the past given the same set of circumstances.


That's bullshit, plain and simple.


He's NOT saying that. He's saying that you live in a society and you used the advantages afforded to you by American infrastructure. Your business didn't build the roads & bridges you use, your business alone didn't pay for the public education of the workers you hire, your business alone didn't pay for the power, water, sewer or rail infrastructure. Society as a whole has paid for that.

Would Apple have been as successful if Steve Jobs had attempted to build and grow his business in Yemin or Syria?

Every single conservative argument I've seen in this thread has been the result of a problem with language comprehension. He's saying your businesses thrived because of your own hard work and because you used the American infrastructure and engine to drive it.
Elizabeth Warren saying the same thing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOyDR2b71ag)


Now if you want to debate his point: "should successful businesses and the rich be asked to pay more because of their success" - then by all means. But lets stop this complete red herring/quote mining argument.

[Showal]

I have a question for all the Obama defenders on here.

My family on my mothers side are farmers, have always been farmers. Some of them are American Indian, and frankly have been here LONGER then the Government, farming.

Are they Successful farmers due to help from Society and the Government? Is the only way the food they grow is eaten because Society helped them or made it possible? They delivered and sold food Before roads and bridges. Hell, even the Colonies had businesses before government roads and bridges. I am sure if we looked hard we could find some businesses still left over from before the founding of our country, do those count? Since we didn't build the roads and bridges at the time that they were created?

I understand what Obama was trying to say, No one accomplished all that they do on their own. THAT being said.. Have any of you people ever watched Kitchen Nightmares?

50 different people can open a new Restaurant. Each one of them Can be smart, and Hardworking. Does that really mean that all 50 will succeed? They each have all the same advantages, All have roads, all had teachers. So why do some fail? Far as I can tell, I am sure Obama would think it wasn't their fault. It must be Societies fault for not eating there as much, even if their food sucked, and their kitchen was disgusting.

If a contractor builds a shoddy deck and it falls apart, and his business fails, I am sure it is all our fault for not teaching him the right way, nor using his service more without complaining.

I take it if I or someone else, where to figure out cold fusion, and build a small reactor that produces unlimited energy, or figured out FTL travel thru space, I am sure that wasn't something we did. It was all due to the Government. I don't see why I should follow any patent laws at all anymore, since after all, they were only able to do that with help from MY government that I pay taxes for. So frankly, they owe me for the ability to have done what they did.

I would like my checks mailed to me now please.

Lol you should talk to Gibreficul about your family's history.

So do you think I need to thank the government for my ability to maintain a full firm erection or is this something I can thank myself for? If so, thank you Obama and thank you society.

All the idiot obama supporters, if I shit on your porch, who is to blame? Me or society or Obama? If you say me, I say I can see your socialist agenda. If you say society, I wonder if that's because I used society's roads to get society's food to create society's shit on your porch that society supported you to achieve, you fucking Socialist. If you say it's Obama's fault, you're finally right. Let's admit that everyone else thinks you're being racist. Blacks wouldn't say this shit is Obama's fault because they'll vote for him even if he rapes a child on TV because he is black so we can't take their opinion as worth anything.

Listen, the issue here is simple. What if I lived on a deserted island but became successful, should I thank the banana tree for providing me the nutrition to survive long enough to be successful or will you assholes finally let me take a bit of pride in my accomplishments? You'll probably just call me a banana eating mother fucker. We can't even thank SotT for that because the banana eater ate bananas and made him think of that and SotT should tell his boss its the banana guy's parents fault for making him like bananas in the first place.

Socialists.

Racists.

Fuck everyone here.

I hope this clears everything up for you. If you fail to get it now, its because of poor reading comprehension, racism, a socialist agenda, your IQ, your inability to follow logic, or because society has failed you.

[Tgo01]

I wonder what Obama's biography is going to be titled. "Barack Obama: I didn't accomplish a single thing on my own"

[Delias]

Lol you should talk to Gibreficul about your family's history.

So do you think I need to thank the government for my ability to maintain a full firm erection or is this something I can thank myself for? If so, thank you Obama and thank you society.

All the idiot obama supporters, if I shit on your porch, who is to blame? Me or society or Obama? If you say me, I say I can see your socialist agenda. If you say society, I wonder if that's because I used society's roads to get society's food to create society's shit on your porch that society supported you to achieve, you fucking Socialist. If you say it's Obama's fault, you're finally right. Let's admit that everyone else thinks you're being racist. Blacks wouldn't say this shit is Obama's fault because they'll vote for him even if he rapes a child on TV because he is black so we can't take their opinion as worth anything.

Listen, the issue here is simple. What if I lived on a deserted island but became successful, should I thank the banana tree for providing me the nutrition to survive long enough to be successful or will you assholes finally let me take a bit of pride in my accomplishments? You'll probably just call me a banana eating mother fucker. We can't even thank SotT for that because the banana eater ate bananas and made him think of that and SotT should tell his boss its the banana guy's parents fault for making him like bananas in the first place.

Socialists.

Racists.

Fuck everyone here.

I hope this clears everything up for you. If you fail to get it now, its because of poor reading comprehension, racism, a socialist agenda, your IQ, your inability to follow logic, or because society has failed you.

I think I just came.

[Warriorbird]

I wonder what Obama's biography is going to be titled. "Barack Obama: I didn't accomplish a single thing on my own"

I hear tell that Tgo01 is totally self reliant. He even built the Internet that we're speaking on. All by himself.

[Tgo01]

I hear tell that Tgo01 is totally self reliant. He even built the Internet that we're speaking on. All by himself.

Damn right I invented the internet, and porn, although saying those two seems kind of redundant. I also invented Christianity but shhh, don't tell anyone.

[AbnInfamy]

I have a question for all the Obama defenders on here.

My family on my mothers side are farmers, have always been farmers. Some of them are American Indian, and frankly have been here LONGER then the Government, farming.
.

Which side are you on? A whole lot of farmers nowadays get government subsidies for their crops.

I'm of the belief the more money you make, the more taxes you should spend, flat tax, baby.

Before anyone slings nonsense at me, I have an engineering job, and I paid taxes last year, don't want free stuff, don't care about paying taxes.

To get where I am, I got the Monty GI bill, learned from expert professors in their field, and was taught hard work from my NCOs growing up. No man is an island.

[Latrinsorm]

50 different people can open a new Restaurant. Each one of them Can be smart, and Hardworking. Does that really mean that all 50 will succeed? They each have all the same advantages, All have roads, all had teachers. So why do some fail?In addition to being universally reliant on other people (society, government, whatever you'd like to call it), people are universally subject to the whims of fate, or God, or luck, or the Force, or Joe Pesci (especially Joe Pesci). Again, this is not to say that people's success (or failure!) has nothing to do with their performance, effort, talent, skill, etc. It is merely to point out that in modern America there is a huge overstatement of how much causal impact the individual has.

It is interesting you bring up scientific progress in what you apparently believe is a counter-example. It was Isaac Newton who declared "If I have seen further it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants.", after all.

[ClydeR]

In a speech today, Romney explained the proper role of government..


“I know that you recognize a lot of people helped you in that business,” Mr. Romney told them. “Perhaps the banks. Investors. There’s no question your mom and dad, your school teacher, the people who provide roads, the fire and police. But let me ask you this, did you build your business? If you did, raise your hand?’’

Many hands went up. “Take that, Mr. President,’’ Mr. Romney said. “This is what’s happening in this country. These people are entrepreneurs.’’

More... (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/)


Compare that to Obama's Communist remarks last week..


If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

More... (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/13/remarks-president-campaign-event-roanoke-virginia)

See the difference?

[AbnInfamy]

See the difference?

I must be absolutely retarded, because not really. It all looks like different shades of grey to me.

[Bobmuhthol]

https://www.facebook.com/mittromabsshit

[Showal]

https://www.facebook.com/mittromabsshit

I'm shocked his PR people let him make that page.

[Showal]

I should make my thing say "absolute shithead" instead of "senior member".

[Atlanteax]

But don't you ever just wake up and say, "I really want to blow shit out of proportion today." I know I do.

Not my style... so I was going with "no comment" for this thread.

But now that I've posted, I'll just state that while Obama was technically correct in what he said, he gives the impression that he has little regard (if any) for the American entrepreneurial spirit and is building the case that any single business should have a close working relationship with the government (in whatever form) to be 'successful'.

It is *that* which caused the uproar over this.

[ClydeR]

I must be absolutely retarded, because not really. It all looks like different shades of grey to me.

Then I'll explain it. Romney correctly put investors and bankers before teachers and firefighters. Obama put teachers and firefighters first.

[Delias]

Then I'll explain it. Romney correctly put investors and bankers before teachers and firefighters. Obama put teachers and firefighters first.

Without teachers, you would have damn few bankers and investors... since I believe they generally need to know how to read and write.

[Liagala]

Without teachers, you would have damn few bankers and investors... since I believe they generally need to know how to read and write.
You realize you're giving a serious response to a Clyder quote, right?

[Androidpk]

Without teachers, you would have damn few bankers and investors... since I believe they generally need to know how to read and write.

Unless they're home-schooled or self taught.

[Atlanteax]

Unless they're home-schooled or self taught.

Considering that nowadays home-schooled / self-taught will probably provide better results, education-quality-wise, than public schools.

[Parkbandit]

Without teachers, you would have damn few bankers and investors... since I believe they generally need to know how to read and write.

Without parents having kids, teachers wouldn't have anyone to teach.

OMG!

[Androidpk]

http://i46.tinypic.com/6getxc.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

So close to perfect.

[Some Rogue]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/lrenzo2/1a2.jpg

[Warriorbird]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/lrenzo2/1a2.jpg

Pretty true.

[Bobmuhthol]

Yeah, this is still accurate, regardless of how many business-building pictures happen.

3759

[Androidpk]

http://i50.tinypic.com/mt2gxc.jpg

[Tgo01]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/lrenzo2/1a2.jpg


http://i50.tinypic.com/mt2gxc.jpg

I loled.

[Valthissa]

I thought he was going for something along the lines of "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants" which is a truism. Each of us owes a debt to all previous generations. Without governments we would be squatting somewhere protecting our families and possessions with a club. Civilization is a pretty good deal compared to the alternatives.

I would like to see what the speech writer wrote instead of the " If you've got a business, you did not build that - somebody else made that happen" construction which is just gibberish.

short version: simple idea, poor delivery, need clarification

C

[TheEschaton]

But you know, us liberals are the bad guys if we called out G.W. on his mangling of the English language. ;)

[Parkbandit]

But you know, us liberals are the bad guys if we called out G.W. on his mangling of the English language. ;)

How do you figure? Some of GW's harshest critics were from Republicans. He used to make me cringe when he started speaking.

Thankfully, Obama reads off the TOTUS for almost everything and we only have a glimpse of how badly he speaks when he doesn't. That, um, guy, um, should, um, ............... never, um, be, um, without, um, his, .................um, teleprompter.

[Atlanteax]

http://media.caglecartoons.com/media/cartoons/81/2012/07/19/115418_600.jpg

[Parkbandit]

http://www.craigboyce.com/w/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/You_Didnt_Build_That-Obama.jpg

[~Rocktar~]

http://www.craigboyce.com/w/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/You_Didnt_Build_That-Obama.jpg

LULZ

[Wrathbringer]

3848

[Parkbandit]

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/179166_442681895763281_693675525_n.jpg

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm not sure what I find most offensive: ConservativeDailyNews.com, branco@reagan.com, or how not clever the comic is.

[Stanley Burrell]

Noblesse oblige'd.