Just Some General Things

[Asrial]

UAF: 400 vs UDF: 195 = 2.000 (capped) * MM: 103 + d100: 86 = 292

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He has a completely severed right arm, a completely severed left arm, a completely severed right leg, a completely severed left leg and some minor cuts and bruises on his chest.

(done by jabbing, haha)

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AIMING adds 1 RT.

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Remember the old days of clerics hunting pyrothags? Bash them in the head twice to generate a rank 2 wound so you can hide on them to ambush the head for the kill.

Jab the eyes a few times to blind something, despite doing hardly any damage...

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Ambushing can start you at higher tiers and gives you the standard defense pushdown effect. Ambushing is actually pretty damn effective. I was still getting one shot kills with kicks and punches to the eyes on near same level foes (didn't try jabs or grapples). A boot to the eye sounds nasty....

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Auto pickup with both hands is really annoying as an ambusher, haha.

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I'm pleased with the offensive output of ambushing with UAC. However, I think ambushing with a fist-scythe is faster, safer (bow/shield in the left hand), and more accurate. Time will tell on this.

For sure, UAC is powerful.. and if you're running a training plan that has no shield/ranged training.. you're probably better off using UAC instead of a brawling weapon (not one of the UAC friendly ones.. ones that you'd use for ambushing; I always go with a fist-scythe because of DF). It's that close IMO and what makes normal ambushing better is the ability to have something in your left hand and still be effective.

I'm curious to see how gear (boots/gloves/weapons) will affect ambushing.

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I'll add more to this as I play around with it and update this post with any changes from discussion (here or elsewhere). It's just meant to be an informative post with little tidbits as we figure stuff out.

[Asrial]

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Hunting%20and%20Combat/Unarmed%20Combat/view

Found the UAC folder. Some good info there and a lot of what I mentioned is there. If you're serious about wanting to really know the mechanics.. I recommend reading through it.

[Wheelerm]

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Hunting%20and%20Combat/Unarmed%20Combat/view

Found the UAC folder. Some good info there and a lot of what I mentioned is there. If you're serious about wanting to really know the mechanics.. I recommend reading through it.

Thanks a lot, I just learned that I do NOT have to train in TWC to use two approved brawling weapons simultaneously. I also learned that I might be better off without any weapons at all, depending on the situation.

[Asrial]

I think the deal with allowing weapons might be for people wanting to mstrike without having to pull the weapons out, mstrike, then put them away to brawl.

[WRoss]

I'm assuming you converted? How's that going at higher levels?

[Asrial]

Me?

We can't convert existing characters until about a month after the first new monk makes level 40.

I was just posting here because this seemed like the most logical place to talk about the UAC stuff.

This is with my level 72 rogue.

[Lulfas]

Thanks a lot, I just learned that I do NOT have to train in TWC to use two approved brawling weapons simultaneously. I also learned that I might be better off without any weapons at all, depending on the situation.

So does twc do nothing at all for UAC then?

[droit]

Regarding punch, grapple and kick mastery:



The masteries provide +5 MM per rank and +5% tier up chance per rank, each when using the appropriate attack type.

GameMaster Oscuro

[Drakefang]

So does twc do nothing at all for UAC then?

Based on the one or two sentence response on the officials, I'd say nothing except if you are actually using the older AS/DS styled attack using brawling weapons. Essentially, no.

[Riltus]

So does twc do nothing at all for UAC then?

Galen is correct.

TWC uses the AS/DS engagement system. UCS is an entirely unique system. So the answer is no. You can hold two of the approved brawling weapons but they are best described as equipment that attaches to your hand, rather than weapons; your hands and feet are the weapons.

Brawling weapons only provide a platform for enhancements (Enchant bonus, weighting, flaring and a DF boost). The DF bonus is offset by a penalty to MM.

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Unarmed_combat_system

Read the section: Weapons Compatible with Unarmed Combat

Mark

[Lulfas]

Hmm. Makes me wonder if twc is worth the points then. You get the extra ds if you carry the weapons.

[Wheelerm]

Me?

We can't convert existing characters until about a month after the first new monk makes level 40.

I was just posting here because this seemed like the most logical place to talk about the UAC stuff.

This is with my level 72 rogue.

So, are you just training in Brawling? My rogue is a level 35 TWC ambushing rogue. I rolled up a monk to play with the system, and I like it. I am interested in what you did in terms of training for UAC?

Thanks.

[Asrial]

So, are you just training in Brawling? My rogue is a level 35 TWC ambushing rogue. I rolled up a monk to play with the system, and I like it. I am interested in what you did in terms of training for UAC?Guys, I haven't done anything for UAC, lol.

I'm just seeing how it affects my character.

I made the rogue to be what my cleric isn't (picker, ambusher, Fu'er, ranged user).

He's full 2x brawling and basically I can go out and obliterate fire mages as well as I did with my fist-scythe/bow or just the bow. I feel that there's no loss of offensive firepower. However, my defenses are shot from the loss of the bow. I'm contemplating dropping ranged for 3x dodge, but that'd only give me ~50 DS in offensive (currently a full 2x dodge). Also, I'd lose a little bit of TP's that way.

[Wheelerm]

I guess I'm confused...the way it looks, you are doing unarmed combat. Unless I'm not seeing something right.

[Asrial]

I guess I'm confused...the way it looks, you are doing unarmed combat. Unless I'm not seeing something right.Yes. There's nothing you need to train in to do it. A level 0 character with NO SKILLS can do UAC. Just PUNCH TARGET, GRAPPLE TARGET, etc.

However, to make it effective, you need brawling training.

Anyone can go pick up a sword and swing it.. but edged training makes it viable. Same thing here.

[Wheelerm]

Yes. There's nothing you need to train in to do it. A level 0 character with NO SKILLS can do UAC. Just PUNCH TARGET, GRAPPLE TARGET, etc.

However, to make it effective, you need brawling training.

Anyone can go pick up a sword and swing it.. but edged training makes it viable. Same thing here.

I think I see where the confusion lies...

Yes, I get that I can go in game right now and do some UAC but that without brawling skills it would not be very effective. By looking at the log you posted, I had initially (and incorrectly) thought that you were some kind of square that converted over to monk, and I was curious about your training plan. Then, of course, I found out that migration isn't allowed yet, so that really got me interested because you look like you're doing UAC pretty damn good with a square.

I'll cut to the chase:

The monk I rolled up a couple of days ago has a very similar build to my rogue, complete with hiding and ambushing ranks. I think the UAC mechanics are very interesting and a whole lot more fun to play with than my TWC Edged build.

From what I gather out of your replies so far, I should be able to drop all TWC and Edged Weapons trainings and sink those points in Brawling and upping my Dodging to 3X and maybe pick up some more CM or MOC. I might even have a few points left over to get some minor mental spells.

Also, since I have 30 ranks of AU, and I am wearing Brig, does it look like brig will be huge encumberance with UAC? I'm asking all these questions because if I do this, it'll mean a fixskills and I'd kind of like to know what I'm getting into before I pull the trigger.

Thanks.

[Aluvius]

I think brig is doable with the UCS. As far as I know you get half of the AsG's armor penalty taken away from your MM.

[Riltus]

Brig is doable. The brig MM penalty is -6 (it is a flat penalty irrespective of stance equal to 1/2 the armor action penalty rounded down). If your MM is 100 in stance OFF with full leathers, it will decrease to 94 w/ brig. These are the same values used to determine the Dodge DS armor penalty. With dodge they convert to percentages. The brig Dodge DS penalty is 6% and 17% for full plate.

AsG| Name |MM Penalty
1|Cloth|0
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5|Light leather|0
6|Full leather|0
7|Reinforced leather|2
8|Double leather|3
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9|LBP|3
10|Cuirbouilli|4
11|Studded leather|5
12|Brigandine|6
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13|Chain Mail|6
14|Double Chain|7
15|Aug Chain|8
16|Hauberk|9
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17|MBP|10
18|Aug Plate|12
19|Half Plate|15
20|Full Plate|17

Not affected by stance or armor undertraining.

Mark

[Wheelerm]

I'm going to move this discussion over to the Rogue forum, as it has sort of morphed from UAC Monks to UAC Rogues.