The Last SimuCon ever?

[Gelston]

Ok...we'll just get straight to the point.

Every year, we have a certain number of room nights that we're responsible for covering. Reaching this goal means we don't have to pay the hotel for the meeting room space and allows us to spend that money on entertainment, prizes, snacks/food, etc.

There are multiple tiers. If we hit the top tier, we get all our meeting rooms for free. If we hit the second tier, we pay a large chunk of change. If we fall under that second tier, we have to pay a much larger amount.

In years past, we've never even come close to that second tier and we've always gotten all of our meeting rooms comped.

This year, however, we're still about 35 room nights short from the second tier, and 55 rooms short of the first tier.

What does this mean?

In a nutshell, it means that if we don't pick up enough room nights to hit at least the second tier, virtually our entire budget will have to go to the hotel. This isn't negotiable. We can't go to the hotel at this point and ask for fewer meeting rooms in the hopes of paying less money because it's unlikely they'll be able to book anyone into those rooms to make up the money they'd be losing. If we don't get enough room nights to reach the first tier, then roughly half of our budget goes to pay for the rooms and will put a dent in any plans we have.

Our room block will remain open until June 9th. If you are coming to the Con and haven't taken care of your room situation yet, PLEASE make sure you are booked in our block ASAP. If you are on the fence about coming to the Con, now would be a GREAT time to decide to come! We're working on some fun things that we can do in the games for attendees (special items, shops, etc.) as a bit of extra incentive to come this year, so if that will help make up your mind and join us, then that would be fabulous!

I will also say with a certainty, that if we end up having to blow all this money on the meeting rooms because of low attendance, then there will be very little discussion about whether we actually have a Con next year or not. This is a lot of work and if it's gotten to the point that folks don't want to come anymore, then that will be unfortunate, but this will be the last one. I absolutely hope that's not what it boils down to, but that's the simple fact of the matter.


Solomon

Maybe they need to scale back, but I think this could end up being the last one. I know GS has about 30+ coming... I guess DR is lagging behind? They are coming with less.

[Gelston]

http://www.play.net/simucon/2012/
"
I'm not sure if it'll let you book without a ticket to SimuCon though. There is a "special room rate" link on there though.

[Reliel]

$100-120 bucks to attend a con? No wonder people aren't going.

[turtles]

Would it be possible to purchase 3 tickets to Simucon for myself and 2 friends and then get the 2 rooms? I noticed registration for Simucon was closed, but figured that maybe an exception could be made to help everything. :)

I found this link, -- Reserve your room online now!! -- (https://www.starwoodmeeting.com/Book/Simucon2012), on the Simucon registration page that seems to take you directly to the page where can book your rooms and having it be counted as part of the room block, and get the discounted price.

[Archigeek]

I'm sure they'll sell you a ticket. Send Solomon an email.

I've been to Simucon a couple of times. It's a good time and definitely worth $120. Not in the cards this year, but it's a good time.

[Kronius]

I'd be procrastinating on my room bookings. Went ahead and got my 4 nights.

This is kind of sweet too

We're working on some fun things that we can do in the games for attendees (special items, shops, etc.) as a bit of extra incentive to come this year, so if that will help make up your mind and join us, then that would be fabulous!

Pulling a shop out of it would be fucking SWEET.

[magiceatsyou]

I've heard a bit of rumor on this subject, I was hoping it wasn't true. As understandable as it is.

[Kronius]

Once again, I feel their marketing of this has put a damper on things. I guess they figure people know what to expect at a SimuCon, but for those that have never gone, they're basically left in the dark.

Why doesn't Simu let people know about the giveaways and in-game prizes one could win from attending? Once again, it seems like they're scrambling last minute.

When there is a virtual economy basically at their fingertips, how hard would it be to offer some nice in-game incentives to attend these events?

No more SimuCon, what's next, shutting down servers? Staff cuts? Doesn't look good. I hope it works out.

[Tgo01]

I'm confused. What do these conventions cost Simutronics other than the meeting hall spaces? I've never been to a Simucon so what all is there that costs Simutronics money to do this? If they're getting the meeting halls comped and each person is paying 100 dollars just to show up then where is all of that money going to?

[Archigeek]

I'm confused. What do these conventions cost Simutronics other than the meeting hall spaces? I've never been to a Simucon so what all is there that costs Simutronics money to do this? If they're getting the meeting halls comped and each person is paying 100 dollars just to show up then where is all of that money going to?

One reason people go is to meet with GMs and other staff. It's nice to put a face to a name, and I'm sure it's good for them to meet each other in person now and again too. Those people should get at least some portion of their trip comped and some other compensation if that's at all possible. Additionally, there used to be a big dinner, door prizes, etc. All that stuff costs something. 100 bucks doesn't really go that far, but maybe the real answer is that they need to look to the old days and see how the first couple of Simucons went. I believe they were small affairs.

[Warriorbird]

They're run this questionably for a long time. With that said, I do think it's nice there is still a Con.

[jpatter123]

One reason people go is to meet with GMs and other staff. It's nice to put a face to a name, and I'm sure it's good for them to meet each other in person now and again too. Those people should get at least some portion of their trip comped and some other compensation if that's at all possible. Additionally, there used to be a big dinner, door prizes, etc. All that stuff costs something. 100 bucks doesn't really go that far, but maybe the real answer is that they need to look to the old days and see how the first couple of Simucons went. I believe they were small affairs.

lots of GM's go to gatherings at no cost to the players and nothing comped to the GM's. Also seems to me the first couple simucons were fairly big affairs with a schedule of events. All that said economy is down, number of players are down, and they should take that into consideration. Most likely the $100 ticket to the event isn't as prohibitive of a cost as the travel expenses and hotel cost.

[Archigeek]

lots of GM's go to gatherings at no cost to the players and nothing comped to the GM's. Also seems to me the first couple simucons were fairly big affairs with a schedule of events. All that said economy is down, number of players are down, and they should take that into consideration. Most likely the $100 ticket to the event isn't as prohibitive of a cost as the travel expenses and hotel cost.

A gather is not the same as Simucon. I'm sure some GMs pay their way to Simucon, but going to the gather in your state vs getting on a plane and flying to St Louis are entirely different things.

I am pretty sure you're correct in your economic analysis, as well as on that last statement.

[Gweneivia]

actually to my knowledge GMs do not have to pay the cost of registration, which may help explain why there seems to be such a high GM to player ratio of attendees. In previous years they have given out some neat door prizes, when attendance was higher and they presumably had a surplus. I know someone who won a laptop, for example. Last year was all ig prizes only but some still made it worthwhile.

[afordhere]

I had planned on going this year. My sis in law lives in St. Louis and she wanted to visit too... However, I'll be having a fun fun fun bypass surgery Aug 3rd and recovery from that is more important.

[magiceatsyou]

The GM's do have their expenses paid for. Besides that though, this is just leading to the argument of "Well they would do better if they advertised and did this and that". Unfortunately the higher ups could care less what direction GemStone or SimuCon's take as long as they have a profit. And any of the GM's who actually CARE hold less stature and are unable to do anything about the situation.

The economy right now has a lot to factor into flying from wherever to St. Louis... It all adds up to be a pretty big expense. If they do end up cancelling SimuCon, I can only hope it won't be forever. Then again, there is still a part of me grasping onto the idea of GemStone turning around and beginning to flourish again.

[thefarmer]

The GM's do have their expenses paid for.

No.

[magiceatsyou]

No.

You're right, I misunderstood. Asked again and she told me they don't have to pay for their ticket to get INTO the convention but they do have to pay for everything else.

[Archigeek]

You're right, I misunderstood. Asked again and she told me they don't have to pay for their ticket to get INTO the convention but they do have to pay for everything else.

That has varied over the years I'm sure. 10 years ago, some top level GMs got more than just their access paid for. Now? I doubt anything more than minimum is in the budget. Personally I'd love to see them work a face to face anual meeting into Simucon, for all of their GMs, but can't see it happening.

[Ker_Thwap]

They'd be better of having separate conventions for each game. Gemstone wouldn't need a conference room, with the small number of attendees from GS, people could just party in a suite.

St. Louis flat out sucks in every way, since the hotel is in the middle of nowhere. Need more booze, take a cab? The only place in walking distance is the Sushi place, nothing like "fresh" seafood from America's heartland.

I'd suggest we all just have our own convention/gathering during Dragon Con in Atlanta which has about a billion times more activities available.

[JustDan]

In my industry, there's a week-long developer-run convention every year in Las Vegas. It's crazy expensive (though still much cheaper than it would be if you went independent of the convention), and incredibly useful for people in my line of work. Lots of training, insight, feedback, etc etc etc.

Now then... not many companies are real anxious to send their production staff to VEGAS for a week, for some odd reason. I've never been able to talk someone into sending me.

So they offer a significantly reduced "online" pass. You can watch all the presentations via the web, participate via chat or videoconference, get all the materials that were distributed, etc etc etc. More than 10 times the actual attendees use this method, and they make much more money off of those people than the ones that were actually there.

Make a SimuCon Virtual pass. Offer it for 50 bucks. Attendees get some in-game benefits (alters, access to test instances, a custom title, 3 free months of Premie access, a giftbox item, a pull from the DM prize pile, etc etc etc), and get to witness all of the events/lectures/bitch sessions. They'd make all the money they needed to keep this going for at least a few more years.

[HouseofElves]

So they offer a significantly reduced "online" pass. You can watch all the presentations via the web, participate via chat or videoconference, get all the materials that were distributed, etc etc etc. More than 10 times the actual attendees use this method, and they make much more money off of those people than the ones that were actually there.

Make a SimuCon Virtual pass. Offer it for 50 bucks. Attendees get some in-game benefits (alters, access to test instances, a custom title, 3 free months of Premie access, a giftbox item, a pull from the DM prize pile, etc etc etc), and get to witness all of the events/lectures/bitch sessions. They'd make all the money they needed to keep this going for at least a few more years.

That's just too damn smart for Simu.

[leifastagsweed]

Bailing out on this one, kids, I just can't make it happen. Hope you guys that are going have fun! Feel free to eat my dinner and/or use my $100 to pay for those pricey conference rooms.

[JustDan]

That's just too damn smart for Simu.

I emailed the suggestion to Solomon. I have NO idea if he reads all his emails, much less responds, but I figured it was worth a shot. I'd buy a SimuCon Virtual pass in a heartbeat.

[Gweneivia]

Advertising on the website and in game for a random chance to run in a limited (ten tickets only) droughtman's with the original tier of prizing might bring some more people in, too.

Also...Leifa, WTF.

[kookiegod]

That has varied over the years I'm sure. 10 years ago, some top level GMs got more than just their access paid for. Now? I doubt anything more than minimum is in the budget. Personally I'd love to see them work a face to face anual meeting into Simucon, for all of their GMs, but can't see it happening.

This would be correct. Used to be depending on your paygrade and also what you were doing. Just showing up wasn't good enough, had to run presentations, forums, q&a, as well as be door guards, etc. to get stuff comped.

However, its was easier when you had 1000+ register vs 50 or so, had a lot more cash to work with.

~Paul

[Makkah]

GS is dying :(

[Warriorbird]

This would be correct. Used to be depending on your paygrade and also what you were doing. Just showing up wasn't good enough, had to run presentations, forums, q&a, as well as be door guards, etc. to get stuff comped.

However, its was easier when you had 1000+ register vs 50 or so, had a lot more cash to work with.

~Paul

Simu implements change 10 years after they should (IE: Monks.) The Con should have been addressed 10 years ago. It could've been highly profitable given the former number of attendees. The whole "Not having vendors." notion was idiotic and that's only one problem.

[fuzzhead]

I can tell you that every year there are at least 4 of us that get together at DragonCon. Ker_Thwap, if you or others want to join us this year we would love to get together at some point during the Con.

[JustDan]

GS is dying :(

DM runs sold out like hotcakes. They have a smaller, but still very much active, player base. Monks just got released. Voln was updated. They have new blood at the GM position.

SimuCon is dying because it's outdated, poorly planned and implemented, and has never changed it's format to account for the fact that all the teenagers and twenty-somethings are still playing, but are now entrenched with families, real jobs, and mortgages. Makes it a lot harder to jaunt off to STL for no real reason other than to "party".

GS is doing fine, and will continue to do fine. SimuCon will die a quick painful death unless they make changes.

[Archigeek]

It's time for Simu-cruise!

[leifastagsweed]

SimuCon is dying because it's outdated, poorly planned and implemented, and has never changed it's format to account for the fact that all the teenagers and twenty-somethings are still playing, but are now entrenched with families, real jobs, and mortgages. Makes it a lot harder to jaunt off to STL for no real reason other than to "party".

^This.

I have reeeeally been looking forward to this event and you guys know it. I have posted discussions here on PC, the officials, and on Facebook and yammered on about it endlessly on Lnet in hopes of getting answers/sparking interest in this event. I have asked Simutronics and past attendees repeatedly "what are we actually DOING at Con?" (since I've never been before and still there is no schedule) and the 'official' response so far has been "wrap IT up in one day" (again, what is IT?) and give everyone 1 rail pass to do their own thing for the other 4 days. Meanwhile, my roommate also backed out who was sharing expenses/traveling with me. In this economy and my personal financial situation, I just cannot in good conscious spend $1k + in hotel/airfare to trek across the country to St. Louis, Missouri, just to party in a hotel bar with a handful of internet friends.

Super bummed.

[Tessrail]

I would suggest posting that you are looking for someone to share a room with. A friend did that one year and had no problem finding someone to share a room.

[Gelston]

^This.

I have reeeeally been looking forward to this event and you guys know it. I have posted discussions here on PC, the officials, and on Facebook and yammered on about it endlessly on Lnet in hopes of getting answers/sparking interest in this event. I have asked Simutronics and past attendees repeatedly "what are we actually DOING at Con?" (since I've never been before and still there is no schedule) and the 'official' response so far has been "wrap IT up in one day" (again, what is IT?) and give everyone 1 rail pass to do their own thing for the other 4 days. Meanwhile, my roommate also backed out who was sharing expenses/traveling with me. In this economy and my personal financial situation, I just cannot in good conscious spend $1k + in hotel/airfare to trek across the country to St. Louis, Missouri, just to party in a hotel bar with a handful of internet friends.

Super bummed.

Dude, the State of Elanthia thing is wrapped up in one day. There is other shit. You still aren't understanding. Whatever.

[Drakefang]

Dude, the State of Elanthia thing is wrapped up in one day. There is other shit. You still aren't understanding. Whatever.

I think she hit it right on the head. You're paying however much hundreds or a thousand or so, in order to go meet players and party. The official stuff is only somewhat enlightening, if that, which a large minority skips. The perks you get for going are alright, but not worth the money it cost to go. What might be worth the money is putting people with their characters...but beside that I think it's a waste of cash. I'd be more impressed if they ran with Briarfox's idea.

[Gweneivia]

Ask someone else to share, most people booking rooms got roped into double bed rooms anyway and probably wouldn't mind splitting their cost. You are still going, you just haven't been harassed enough. I'll get on it.

[magiceatsyou]

Oh gosh, reading this is bumming me out.

[BriarFox]

I think she hit it right on the head. You're paying however much hundreds or a thousand or so, in order to go meet players and party. The official stuff is only somewhat enlightening, if that, which a large minority skips. The perks you get for going are alright, but not worth the money it cost to go. What might be worth the money is putting people with their characters...but beside that I think it's a waste of cash. I'd be more impressed if they ran with Briarfox's idea.

JustDan's idea, not mine.

[JustDan]

JustDan's idea, not mine.

I'd be both shocked and impressed, to be honest. I've made any number of "suggestions" over the years (in the dozens), to include one shining moment years back where I had a tremendous amount of spare time on my hands, and designed a hunting area. 39 rooms, full descriptions, ambient messaging, fully fleshed out critters, herb types in each room, skin types and values, tie-ins to the pre-existing areas around it. I've never once heard a whisper of reply to anything I've sent them, save the one time I complained about an official warning that I didn't deserve. That response was a one-line affair, something along the lines of "The warning has been removed from your account with our apologies".

They don't seem particularly keen on listening to suggestions, even if they seem like they make a tremendous amount of sense.

[Fallen]

I'd be both shocked and impressed, to be honest. I've made any number of "suggestions" over the years (in the dozens), to include one shining moment years back where I had a tremendous amount of spare time on my hands, and designed a hunting area. 39 rooms, full descriptions, ambient messaging, fully fleshed out critters, herb types in each room, skin types and values, tie-ins to the pre-existing areas around it. I've never once heard a whisper of reply to anything I've sent them, save the one time I complained about an official warning that I didn't deserve. That response was a one-line affair, something along the lines of "The warning has been removed from your account with our apologies".

They don't seem particularly keen on listening to suggestions, even if they seem like they make a tremendous amount of sense.

Many GMs don't read the boards. You'd have better luck sending something that detailed directly via e-mail to the GM responsible for that area. I've always heard hunting grounds are an absolute bitch to get up and running, and the GM that "claimed" that area may have been gone in all but title. Still, I imagine if you wrote directly you'd hear something back.

Unless of course you DID e-mail this to that area's guru, in which case that blows donkey dick.

[JustDan]

Many GMs don't read the boards. You'd have better luck sending something that detailed directly via e-mail to the GM responsible for that area. I've always heard hunting grounds are an absolute bitch to get up and running, and the GM that "claimed" that area may have been gone in all but title. Still, I imagine if you wrote directly you'd hear something back.

Unless of course you DID e-mail this to that area's guru, in which case that blows donkey dick.

Just about everything I've suggested (after advice from an IG GM referral) has been to feedback (save this most recent one about SimuCon, which I sent directly to Solomon, and to my absolute lack of surprise, I've heard nothing back). This was several years ago, and was a suggestion for a 50-something hunting area southwest of Icemule. I'd heard the same as you reference, that new hunting grounds are a pain in the ass, and I'd always heard that the reasons were: You have to plan out EVERY room, EVERY creature, EVERY herb... etc etc etc. So I thought I'd take a stab and see what that might entail. Took a couple of days of playing with it, but it wasn't too awful, then I thought maybe some GM somewhere would be able to use it in some fashion, so sent it in. I kinda expected at least a severely patronizing pat on the head ("Aw... THANK YOU... we'll put that right here on the fridge and maybe we'll use it some time!"), but never heard back.

Maybe I'll dig it out and send it to the area guru... the thought honestly never occurred to me.

[Fallen]

Couldn't hurt, especially if you put that much effort into the proposal. GMs may not use something immediately, but most claim to keep a batch of ideas which they will take from various sources (IE your fridge reference).

[Fortybox]

JustDan pl0x come back to shattered. <3

And screw SimuCon in its current state. Simu needs to be more innovative.

[JustDan]

JustDan pl0x come back to shattered. <3

I've thought about it... getting close to probably doing it. That account is my bard in Prime, and he only gets called in for spot duty, so I can still play all my regular guys in Prime whilst refining my scripting in Shattered. We'll see.

[JustDan]

OK. I spoke to the hotel today and here's where we stand:

We need 16 more room nights or we're going to be in really bad shape.

I got them to extend our deadline until the 19th, so we have 7 days to hit our goal.

Even if people aren't "officially" coming to the Con and they're planning on crashing, PLEASE make sure your room is booked in our block. If you're not supporting the Con by buying a ticket, I hope you'll at least help make sure our budget doesn't get wiped out.

I want to extend a huge thank you to those who made sure their rooms were booked over the last few days, but we aren't out of the woods yet.


Solomon

Man, that sucks. I wish there was some way they could somehow entice people to show up, or an alternate way for this convention to generate revenue and make the playerbase excited about it. It'd be awesome if they could make this feel like an event that everyone could be involved with.

[kookiegod]

Man, that sucks. I wish there was some way they could somehow entice people to show up, or an alternate way for this convention to generate revenue and make the playerbase excited about it. It'd be awesome if they could make this feel like an event that everyone could be involved with.

We did that once.

Gary / Antavian ran Radio Free Simucon with a broadcast stream of con events, live one one ones with GMs and taking questions. Really was a lot of fun.

We also did body shots on one of the hot DR GMs, Phil and me, I think Helena was her name.

[Kronius]

I honestly don't get it. Such a huge marketing fail.

With the economy in the shitter and options limited for consumers, why aren't more incentives provided for attendance?

Again, I asked the question, what is the cost to Simu to offer enticing, in-game items/effects for those who spend the money to attend? A couple hours of coding? QC ? Surely they've got something already coded and ready to hand out?

Every year they've offered door prizes and other things to those who show up, but I never knew about them until someone told me. Why aren't these emphasized?

Communication breakdown.

[Reliel]

The more I read about them not having enough attendees, I have the urge to go. Though I can't afford it right now.

[Kronius]

I gotta imagine they'll be able to get 16 more nights in... or... maybe not. It's only a hundred a night, surely their budget is more than $1600. Worse comes to worse, it might be best for them to plop down the $1600 to buy out the block to keep their comped rooms.

[JustDan]

I keep wondering what the breakdown is by game/realm. I've always had this mental image of DR being far more passionate and populated than GS. Someone over there should step up and plop down a party of 4 for 4 nights.

[JustDan]

We did that once.

Gary / Antavian ran Radio Free Simucon with a broadcast stream of con events, live one one ones with GMs and taking questions. Really was a lot of fun.

We also did body shots on one of the hot DR GMs, Phil and me, I think Helena was her name.

See????? MARKETING! Post a picture of said GM. Advertise the possibility of body shots. Done and done.

(and a broadcast of the event would be awesomesauce, and would absolutely get dollars coming in, especially if coupled with in-game incentives).

[Malok]

Decided that since it may be the last Simucon (& I haven't been since 2002) that I'm going to attend. :)

[Asile]

I honestly don't get it. Such a huge marketing fail.

With the economy in the shitter and options limited for consumers, why aren't more incentives provided for attendance?

Again, I asked the question, what is the cost to Simu to offer enticing, in-game items/effects for those who spend the money to attend? A couple hours of coding? QC ? Surely they've got something already coded and ready to hand out?

Every year they've offered door prizes and other things to those who show up, but I never knew about them until someone told me. Why aren't these emphasized?

Communication breakdown.

They used to make a big deal out of the door prizes and prizes for special stuff, though I think it was more on the SimuCon section of the forums than in the individual games, I forget. But I remember the year when the BIG prize was the new laptop, and of course I remember the year when the iPod was the big prize :D And there were incentives within each individual game, too.

I just honestly haven't seen a lot of promotion over the past few years. There used to be a lot more than just the message when you log into the game, which can get hidden in the scroll of a lot of other stuff, depending what you're running.

There's one thing that's been kinda bugging my brain, and amuses me a bit (besides the actual cost of the room). IIRC, some years ago, there were people who'd hang out around SimuCon, without actually attending, and there was whining and crying about these people booking rooms in the SimuCon block, and I want to say there was a time when they were explicitly told DON'T DO IT. But now there's been a post begging people who might be going just to hang out to PUH-LEEZE book their room in the SimuCon block. Hmmm...

[Lord Orbstar]

It would have been nice if every SIMUCON was not in the midwest...if they moved it east or west every other year.

[Androidpk]

It would have been nice if every SIMUCON was not in the midwest...if they moved it east or west every other year.

Seriously, who the fuck holds a con in Missouri?

[RSR]

Seriously, who the fuck holds a con in Missouri?

Future Arch builders of America.

[Gelston]

Missouri Basketweavers Guild