HVAC Installer Causes Damage - Possible Advice?

[Buckwheet]

Yeah I know, the internets, but I am looking for suggestions on how to resolve the following.

HVAC guys came out and put in a new $8.5k system. During the install they cut the hard line for phone/DSL into my home which is located right next to where they put in the AC unit.

I have ~$25k in computer equipment running in my basement to make a little extra money per month. Total profit at this point is about $60 per month but that is because of the equipment costs being paid off. When they cut my DSL line this of course took all the equipment off line. They did not tell me they cut the line I had to find it out on my own and they did the install on a Friday. So I was without service for three days. I then had to take a day of PTO so the phone company could come out and repair the line.

During the repair, the phone tech made the situation worse, but left without resolving the issue. I was down until the following Saturday. I called their customer service line and bitched and they waived the repair fee, gave me credit for the service, and compensated me under their SLA that I have for the service.

The HVAC company is refusing to pay anything towards the three days of downtime plus my PTO because CenturyLink comped the repair. It is a little over $500 right now between the loss of profit(not revenue) and my PTO cost if I was to purchase the PTO back from my day job. The only thing the HVAC company tried to do was give me a $195 annual service contract for free, which we turned down at the initial purchase because we are trying to buy a new house by October/November.

So, am I wrong in asking them to cover the $500 in "loss" from their mistake? Should they only be responsible for getting the line back and working, which by another companies mistake is getting paid for so they have no responsibility? I paid for the entire purchase on a credit card, is this something it would be worth opening a dispute on just to tie up their money for 30-90 days?

[Allereli]

Customer usually wins when they dispute with the credit card company, it's worth a shot, but I highly doubt for the PTO, that's a loss.

[Archigeek]

You were wrong to let them know that CenturyLink comped the service to you. You could have sent CenturyLink's bill to them. It's going to be hard to get them to pay for your PTO or lost revenue. Who was the HVAC company by the way? I've had mixed luck with HVAC companies around here.

[Buckwheet]

You were wrong to let them know that CenturyLink comped the service to you. You could have sent CenturyLink's bill to them. It's going to be hard to get them to pay for your PTO or lost revenue. Who was the HVAC company by the way? I've had mixed luck with HVAC companies around here.

They wanted a copy of the bill from CL. So I asked CL for one and they said since they "waived" the fee instead of crediting it back it would not appear on my bill. So I felt I had to tell them something about why I was not able to produce paperwork for a claimed repair. Otherwise, yes I would have just submitted the CL bill to them for a check. Either way tho I feel their installer should have noticed the florescent green wire hanging down from the ceiling running to the DSL modem. There was a bright white plastic box for the jack on the floor joist that had in red DO NOT UNPLUG. They cut the wire maybe 6 inches from this white box.

The company is Standard Heating and Cooling. I also should mention I called them on that Friday when I found the wire and they sent a general repair guy out to look at it. He saw the phone cords hanging from the ceiling cut, so they know it wasn't made up.

[AnticorRifling]

Ask them which local news channel they prefer to be on.

[Back]

Your first problem is you should have taken the case off in the first place. Or at least drilled a few holes in it. Now you're fucked.

But in all seriousness I guess you have to weigh the monetary value versus the hassle. Is it really worth the amount of money you are asking for to go through all that trouble? I know its a principal thing but bottom line its really about time and money.

[jpatter123]

I'm not an attorney....what does your contract for the HVAC repair service look like? Depending on the wording you may or may not have a claim. I can't imagine they don't have some wording that limits their liability. Either way it would be handled through their liability insurance assuming you can prove causation. With the other variables like this being a residence and not presented as a commercial job may or may not play in to the liability. In the end most likely if they don't just hand you the money it would take an attorney to figure out what exactly you may be entitled to. My honest guess.. entitled to repair of damage and not entitled to loss of income due to down time, but that is an absolute guess. Even an honest company would be hard pressed to hand you the $500 based on the scenario. Lastly is the HVAC company a local one or is it a chain?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

For $500 bucks it doesn't sound like it's worth the effort to me.

[Buckwheet]

The HVAC company is not really a chain. They are a local company. The issue is not so much the $500 as it is they price matched a competitor by $400 to get my business and the principal that I am just not happy with their work. This basically nulls out the reason I chose them in the first place. My concerns are with the overall install hassles:

- $500 in lost money/time due to the line cut.
- They disconnected my security alarm and did not put it back. This protects against flooding in my basement.
- They disconnected the fire alarm in the basement and threw it on the floor without re-attaching it.
- They set the fire alarms off and I was billed for the automated call to the fire department.
- They brought in a fresh air intake line and dumped this outside air right into my workshop where I do a large amount of electronics work. IE - no dust filter.
- They did not tell me they cut the line and tried to repair it.
- They did not connect the AC unit back to the saver switch on the outside of the house. They also neglected to tell me they did not do this.

I mean at some point I just feel in general I got screwed. There is nothing they or I can do about the list above because its just shit they do when they install it. I guess because I am fairly particular about where and how stuff goes I look at their shitty install and think I would have done it differently on the finishing aspect. I would have rather gone with the other company at this point for $9k.

[Nuc]

Generally in the construction industry we backcharge contractors for damage, provided your contract allows for it. In your own case, if you paid by credit card, put a hold on the payment to the company and tell your credit card company the service provided was not complete. This will force the HVAC company to either take you to small claims court where you will most certainly win or renegotiate their fee. Judging by the details of your original post, it will be cheaper for them to renegotiate with you and try to split the difference than waste time in court. Usually if the owner is willing to split the difference the contractor will bite, but if not you may end up in small claims court.

Also, it is likely that they will put a lien on your property for failure to pay. This wouldn't matter except that you're looking to sell your home and you won't be able to clear the lien to do so, though you could bond it (which would cost you more than settling this issue with the HVAC contractor).

[Nuc]

Oh and you definitely need to take lots of pictures and send all communication via 2 forms of traceable delivery (ie fax, certified mail, email). That way, you're guaranteed the W if you do go to court.

[Archigeek]

I got excellent results from Standard Water Control, but have never used Standard Heating and Cooling. I used to have an HVAC company (Sedgwick) I would recommend but they got sold, and the quality of their maintenance guys went way down hill after that. The old owner now owns Pronto, so I would recommend them in the future.

Based on your updated list of screw ups I would recommend taking your complaint up the chain at the company. The installers failed you on a whole lot of levels there, and the upper level of management deserves to feel your pain. There's a fair chance they'll pay to get you off their back, and more importantly, it seems to me like they deserve to. Plus, if those are the screw ups you've seen so far, what do you think the chances are that there are more you haven't seen? A company with service that shoddy is fairly likely to have other problem as well.

[crb]

You have an abnormal situation, the average person is not going to be running a commercial enterprise in their basement. Your loss from their negligence is abnormally high, it doesn't excuse their negligence, but they may feel, and a court might find, that it is an unrealistic expectation for them to know the importance of the line to you.

Chargebacks usually work, as a business owner I hate how they usually work, but I've done them myself as a consumer. Regardless they'll be hit by a $25 or so chargeback fee, which hurts. But as someone posted above, you could possibly end up with a lien.

You could also just take them to small claims court, which is generally the venue in which disputes of this type and size would be solved. Filing fees, paid by you, are typically around $25, and people usually represent themselves - but then you have time and hassle. And it isn't even that clear cut. They are at fault for cutting the line, but are they at fault for how long it was down? That is less clear.

The cheapest method is just to send a letter to the manager or business owner, send it certified if you like, explaining what happened and your preferable solution. You don't need to threaten further action, people are often more threatened by a polite professional certified letter than any actual threats or belligerence.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

The HVAC company is not really a chain. They are a local company. The issue is not so much the $500 as it is they price matched a competitor by $400 to get my business and the principal that I am just not happy with their work. This basically nulls out the reason I chose them in the first place. My concerns are with the overall install hassles:

- $500 in lost money/time due to the line cut.
- They disconnected my security alarm and did not put it back. This protects against flooding in my basement.
- They disconnected the fire alarm in the basement and threw it on the floor without re-attaching it.
- They set the fire alarms off and I was billed for the automated call to the fire department.
- They brought in a fresh air intake line and dumped this outside air right into my workshop where I do a large amount of electronics work. IE - no dust filter.
- They did not tell me they cut the line and tried to repair it.
- They did not connect the AC unit back to the saver switch on the outside of the house. They also neglected to tell me they did not do this.

I mean at some point I just feel in general I got screwed. There is nothing they or I can do about the list above because its just shit they do when they install it. I guess because I am fairly particular about where and how stuff goes I look at their shitty install and think I would have done it differently on the finishing aspect. I would have rather gone with the other company at this point for $9k.

So that's different that what I originally read, which was you were out $500 bucks vacation pay. I still think it's nitpicking over something that, had you wanted a perfect install, you probably should have supervised it all yourself in the firstplace or at least told them about all the things to avoid, but if you are going to pursue the $500 bucks on principle - I'd call and tell them basically what you just said. Something like - Look, you guys came in, did a shitty job, it cost me time, money and effort to basically fix all the things you fucked up, above and beyond just having my cable fixed. These are the specifics (like you bullet-ed above, take pictures and what not). You might just say exactly to the installer what you said to us - you feel like you should have gone with the competitor for $500 bucks more, because of all the issues - what does he think of that?

[Buckwheet]

You have an abnormal situation, the average person is not going to be running a commercial enterprise in their basement. Your loss from their negligence is abnormally high, it doesn't excuse their negligence, but they may feel, and a court might find, that it is an unrealistic expectation for them to know the importance of the line to you.

The cheapest method is just to send a letter to the manager or business owner, send it certified if you like, explaining what happened and your preferable solution. You don't need to threaten further action, people are often more threatened by a polite professional certified letter than any actual threats or belligerence.

When the sales person came out I walked with them through the house. They told me what they were going to do, and in fact when we made our way into the secluded spot in the basement they stopped and said, "If this is a grow operation we need to stop right now.". I laughed and showed the sales person it was just a computer room with extra AC and they needed to see what was in there because I wanted the new unit to help partially cool the room. They had no problem including the room and equipment into the calculations or bid process. Yes I guess I assumed this meant they were aware of the semi-industrial nature of the room.


So that's different that what I originally read, which was you were out $500 bucks vacation pay. I still think it's nitpicking over something that, had you wanted a perfect install, you probably should have supervised it all yourself in the firstplace or at least told them about all the things to avoid, but if you are going to pursue the $500 bucks on principle - I'd call and tell them basically what you just said. Something like - Look, you guys came in, did a shitty job, it cost me time, money and effort to basically fix all the things you fucked up, above and beyond just having my cable fixed. These are the specifics (like you bullet-ed above, take pictures and what not). You might just say exactly to the installer what you said to us - you feel like you should have gone with the competitor for $500 bucks more, because of all the issues - what does he think of that?

I have called them, they did not respond to me for two weeks. They finally called me back today to say there is nothing they are going to do, but hey if you want here is a free $195 yearly tune up package. Too which I declined.


Generally in the construction industry we backcharge contractors for damage, provided your contract allows for it. In your own case, if you paid by credit card, put a hold on the payment to the company and tell your credit card company the service provided was not complete. This will force the HVAC company to either take you to small claims court where you will most certainly win or renegotiate their fee. Judging by the details of your original post, it will be cheaper for them to renegotiate with you and try to split the difference than waste time in court. Usually if the owner is willing to split the difference the contractor will bite, but if not you may end up in small claims court.

Also, it is likely that they will put a lien on your property for failure to pay. This wouldn't matter except that you're looking to sell your home and you won't be able to clear the lien to do so, though you could bond it (which would cost you more than settling this issue with the HVAC contractor).

I like this idea, thanks for the information. I was not aware you could put a stop payment on a credit card, I thought it was just chargeback/dispute type stuff. I guess that will be my next step to get them to talk to me. Supposedly the president of the company will be contacting me soon. But I am not holding my breath.

[WRoss]

You could also just take them to small claims court, which is generally the venue in which disputes of this type and size would be solved. Filing fees, paid by you, are typically around $25, and people usually represent themselves - but then you have time and hassle.

I'm not sure about Minnesota, but in my county in IL, small claims fees are a few hundred.

[Bobmuhthol]

"A few hundred" sounds excessive, but I wouldn't put it past Illinois. Here's Massachusetts:


The filing fee for small claims of $500 and under is $40. The filing fee for claims of $501 to $2000 is $50. The filing fee for claims of $2001 to $5000 is $100. The filing fee for claims of $5001 to $7000 is $150. The filing fee for claims of property damage of more than $7000 arising from an automobile accident is $150.

Also, the court filing fee can be awarded to the plaintiff if he wins.

[Archigeek]

I'm not sure about Minnesota, but in my county in IL, small claims fees are a few hundred.

Fees have gone through the roof here in MN. Why do you think we called him Tim fees-a-Pawlenty? When you are foolish enough to sign a no new taxes pledge, but need to raise revenue, I guess this is how you do it. You can only write so many speeding tickets in an attempt to balance the state budget.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Fees have gone through the roof here in MN. Why do you think we called him Tim fees-a-Pawlenty? When you are foolish enough to sign a no new taxes pledge, but need to raise revenue, I guess this is how you do it. You can only write so many speeding tickets in an attempt to balance the state budget.

Maybe he'll renegotiate all your union contracts and save some money for ya :)

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Maybe he'll renegotiate all your union contracts and save some money for ya :)

Wait, never mind. I see you have a Dem now.

[Buckwheet]

Well thanks to the advice here from Nuc, I called them back and played a little more hardball telling them I was going to ask the card company to withhold payment. They have extended their offer to two years of their maintenance service, and it will be transferable to new owners when we sell the house. I have it in writing by fax, and will just be waiting for the official documents to arrive by mail.

Thanks for the advice Nuc it really helped. And to everyone else as well. Basically CRB was right in that if they had approached the install as business to business it would have been a different install group and different contracts etc. I assumed when the sales person came out they would just know what install group/service would be best for the particular job. Anyways live and learn I guess.