Opinions on going past 1x CM please

[Tepin]

I've recently re-activated my account and my main char is a level 48 rogue I rolled in '96.

By dumb luck I did it in time to get a fixskills. This is what I'm working with right now:

XXXXX (at level 48), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Shield Use.........................| 148 48
Combat Maneuvers.......... ...| 169 69
Edged Weapons..................| 200 100
Ambush.............................| 198 98
Physical Fitness..................| 196 96
Dodging............................| 149 49
Arcane Symbols.................| 70 15
Magic Item Use..................| 35 7
Harness Power...................| 20 4
Survival............................| 86 19
Disarming Traps..................| 194 94
Picking Locks......................| 194 94
Stalking and Hiding..............| 200 100
Perception.........................| 196 96
Climbing............................| 90 20
Swimming.........................| 50 10
First Aid...........................| 149 49

My main goal with my fixskills is to get to 2x dodge and cut back to 1x Perception. Originally I was just doing to dump my FA and survival for it, but fudging around a bit I found that I could easily get the 2x dodge and get to a full 1x FA and survival if I cut back CM to 1x. If I drop the survival completely I can still make 63 ranks of CM and still bring all my core skills but disarm to level.

I'd also like opinions on hauberks and MBP. I'm currently wearing a 5x SWCP (and probably lightened) hauberk, but with the scaling of damage factors I wonder if I'd be better of in something as simple as a 4x MBP.

Lets throw in shields to while we are at it. I'm currently carrying around a 6x medium, is switching to a small shield only advantageous if it's the same enchant or higher?

For weapons I currently swing a 4x fel hafter and 4x handaxe. I'm a Voln master and won't be changing society's so I'm thinking about selling the fel hafter and finding a 6-7x perfect handaxe. This would help alleviate my biggest concern with cutting back on CM, which is AS.

Maneuvers anyone? I'm currently capped in Surge and Shadow mastery with 2 ranks of weapon spec. I've read many times that Surge isn't worth the investment past the 3rd rank early on so I'll probably cut that back, but SMastery seems worth it. What will help me be effective in combat? What can help me uphunt without Bravery, Strength, Surge, and Courage?

Guild training .. when I did (what little) guild training in the past there were plenty of folks around for partner reps. What is effective today? What is viable to train in? I have 29 ranks of Sweep, and negligible ranks in anything else.

And my last question is .. am I an idiot for dragging my feet on moving my 21 wiz to another account? It seems I can get a lot more enjoyment out of the game if I open up a second account for a pocket wizard compared to going Premium again. I also wonder if I couldn't script hunt past level 21 in 30 days with a claid.

[JustDan]

{activates the Gibsignal}

My $0.02:

Save skinning (FA and Survival) for the end of your training plan. Dodge, Perception (to 2x), and CM should all come before FA and Survival.

MBP > Hauberk unless you're casting spells in the wild. (and shoot for plate)

Smaller shields if you have more dodge than shield use, bigger shields if the opposite is true (<--- hearsay, but pretty sure it's accurate)

A perfect handaxe is a nice tool, but fel hafters are pretty nice, as well. For now I'd keep the two that you have, that way you have a "living critters" and a "dead critters" weapon.

Get Vanish. Holy Fuck, get Vanish. I also enjoy Divert. Read up on them on Krakii first, but I'd recommend both of those highly.

Guild Training... can be difficult to find partners for reps, so Stun Maneuvers are nice, as are tricks (things you can do without having to hunt for partners). Stun Maneuvers can also save your ass if you get caught out in the open.

Pocket wizard is a GREAT tool for a rogue. Haste imbeds, spellups, disks, ewave amulets... it's your call as to whether or not it's "worth it", but it's a huge help.

And you could ABSOLUTELY script past 21 in 30 days... or so I've heard....... :)

Others with a lot more technical knowledge will be along, but that's my quick stab at your questions. Welcome back.

[DaCapn]

I agree with JustDan on survival/FA, MBP, shields, and stun maneuvers. I think I already gave my thoughts on your weapon of choice.

I'd get combat mobility before vanish. Well, I'd get it before anything else, really.

[Terzl]

I'd get combat mobility before vanish. Well, I'd get it before anything else, really.

+1

Just one rank of mobility gives a 50% chance of standing while prone, which is an advantage that will save you from death a good amount. Not to mention how much safer this makes foraging/heirloom tasks that require you to prone out in the wilds, in addition to helping survive proned-RT-lock in bandit swarms, etc, etc.

[top shottah]

JustDan, DaCapn & Terzl all give sound advice. I agree with them 100%. Getting that 2nd rank of mobility is a must.

For your armor, get into MBP. Find a wizard to imbed 410 in anklets/amulets for you. No spell hinderance there. As you get closer to cap you can start worrying about spells.

[JustDan]

Find a wizard to imbed 410 in anklets/amulets for you

See previous statement about a pocket wizard. :) Best tool a square can have (almost).


As you get closer to cap you can start worrying about spells.

The thing to remember... a lot of rogues consider the end goal for armor to be full plate. That's going to mean no field casting, so you're going to want to hold off on spells until you're ready to push hard for 425 and 430. For just about everyone, that's a post-cap goal. When thinking combat-useful spells, think imbeds for a loooooong time, unless you're intending to shell out a ridiculous amount of cash/coin for some crazy padded leathers.

You CAN cast in augmented breastplate / Hauberk with maxed armor training, but it's still got an annoying hindrance percentage.

[Tepin]

Thanks for all the replies.

Everyone has encouraged me to hold onto my fel hafter so I'll do that for now and concentrate on replacing my armor instead.

I don't plan on training past 404 for a long time.

It looks like I have just enough CMAN points for:

5 ranks of Shadow Mastery
2 ranks of Combat Mobility
3 ranks of Surge of Strength
2 ranks of Vanish

Should be applying my fixskills tonight to migrate to:

Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Shield Use.........................| 148 50
Combat Maneuvers.......... ...| 169 69
Edged Weapons..................| 200 100
Ambush.............................| 198 100
Physical Fitness..................| 196 100
Dodging............................| 149 100
Arcane Symbols.................| 70 15
Magic Item Use..................| 35 7
Harness Power...................| 20 4
Survival............................| 86 0
Disarming Traps..................| 194 94
Picking Locks......................| 194 100
Stalking and Hiding..............| 200 100
Perception.........................| 196 50
Climbing............................| 90 20
Swimming.........................| 50 10
First Aid...........................| 149 0

I'll miss being able to do skinning tasks, they were easy :(

[Middian]

You might want to get armor to 90 ranks for MBP and Armor Specialization 3 (evasion/stealth).

[Natso]

I noticed no MOC training. You may want to get up to 10 ranks to negate getting your DS pushed down with 3 bandits in the room. It can be a life saver.

[Tepin]

You might want to get armor to 90 ranks for MBP and Armor Specialization 3 (evasion/stealth).

Thanks for this advice, I honestly wasn't even familiar with Armor Specialization until you mentioned it. Would you recommend one over the other regarding evasion and stealth?



I noticed no MOC training. You may want to get up to 10 ranks to negate getting your DS pushed down with 3 bandits in the room. It can be a life saver.

I know I need to get this up eventually but it's not fitting in my training plan right now, I'd have to cut back 8-10 ranks of CM or somewhere else to afford it. Do other people recommend having ranks in MOC around lvl 50? These points would have to come from combat skills. Watching Lady Nyte work in the E Tower is what motivated me to be a rogue, I would never go below 2x pick/disarm with lores.

[Natso]

This is what I've been able to do at your same level. A bit over 1.5x in PF and CM. My dodge needs work but I've never had any problems.

xxx (at level 48), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:

Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 180 80 80
Shield Use.........................| 149 49 49
Combat Maneuvers...................| 175 75 75
Edged Weapons......................| 200 100 100
Ambush.............................| 198 98 98
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5 5
Physical Fitness...................| 175 75 75
Dodging............................| 149 49 49
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15 15
Harness Power......................| 50 10 10
Disarming Traps....................| 202 102 102
Picking Locks......................| 202 102 102
Stalking and Hiding................| 202 102 102
Perception.........................| 202 102 102
Climbing...........................| 90 20 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20 20

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4 4

[DaCapn]

Everyone has encouraged me to hold onto my fel hafter so I'll do that for now and concentrate on replacing my armor instead.
My recommendation was for a high-enchant perfect weapon (maybe I made this recommendation to someone else). The enchant will make up for 5+ points of weighting and you'll reach a rank 1 critical that much more often. That's the threshold for weighting to kick in. Any time you don't hit that endroll (~150 handaxe vs. plate), you're just going to plink with little effect. Your required d100 roll for that rank 1 critical drops by 23 with a 7x perfect weapon compared to a 3x weapon.

Thanks for this advice, I honestly wasn't even familiar with Armor Specialization until you mentioned it. Would you recommend one over the other regarding evasion and stealth?
If you look that the formulae, you'll notice that one of them gives you zero bonus if you're wearing plate-class armor.

I know I need to get this up eventually but it's not fitting in my training plan right now, I'd have to cut back 8-10 ranks of CM or somewhere else to afford it. Do other people recommend having ranks in MOC around lvl 50? These points would have to come from combat skills. Watching Lady Nyte work in the E Tower is what motivated me to be a rogue, I would never go below 2x pick/disarm with lores.
You could probably just wait a little while. You'll make 10 rank of MOC in a couple of levels. Something to look forward to.

[Gibreficul]

Now for my 2 cents. Vanish is totally stupid if you aren't sniper/ranged. There's way better combat oriented cmans you can spend those CMan points on. The penalty to hiding rolls for heavier armors makes that even more true. As for keeping CM at 1x, yes, that's a good idea to free up TPs, especially with the heavy picking build.

The reason vanish is stupid is because you're going to come out of hiding every swing. A sniper is not, and so they'll be well off to vanish when they do in fact come out of hiding. It's just too costly to use on an every attack interval.

As for the MBP/Hauberk thing, I agree, hauberk is stupid. I'd also put 2x dodge as a priority over going more than 2x S&H, especially with a sword/board build. Since you're going to be in the open, that defense is crucial. I'm probably late to the party but better late than never. Carry on rogues.

[Tisket]

I'm probably late to the party but better late than never.

Wrong. "Never" is always the best option for you. Try to keep that in mind.

[Gibreficul]

Tisket, you've just earned yourself the first IGNORE that I've done on the forums. I'd bet you're a lonely crazy old cat lady IRL. Kill yourself.

[Tisket]

Tisket, you've just earned yourself the first IGNORE that I've done on the forums. I'd be you're a lonely crazy old cat lady IRL. Kill yourself.

Pussy.

[Tisket]

Seriously, how weak and feeble-minded does a person have to be to be unable to handle the occasional insult, so much so that he needs to utilize an ignore function? That someone should have his internet connection severed.

[Drew]

Seriously, how weak and feeble-minded does a person have to be to be unable to handle the occasional insult, so much so that he needs to utilize an ignore function? That someone should have his internet connection severed.

Or something else severed.

[Tisket]

Or something else severed.

He wouldn't miss something he doesn't have. As evidenced by his use of the ignore feature.

[Drew]

Good point, pics of flexing nerd incoming.

[Tisket]

I wonder what happens if I send a friend invite to someone who has me on ignore. Maybe it makes their monitor blow up. I'm going to try it!

[Tisket]

Well friend request tendered. Seems suspect that you can send one to someone who put you on IGNORE so I'm thinking he lied.

[Gibreficul]

06-15-2012 04:10 PM
You can run but you can't hide.
Tisket
06-15-2012 04:09 PM
I wonder if my message will show up here since I...
Tisket

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I think I penetrated the 400 pounds of fat rolls and somehow hurt her vagina. Poor stupid lonely bitch. Poor poor bitch. Get a life, really.

[Tisket]

06-15-2012 04:10 PM
You can run but you can't hide.
Tisket
06-15-2012 04:09 PM
I wonder if my message will show up here since I...
Tisket

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I think I penetrated the 400 pounds of fat rolls and somehow hurt her vagina. Poor stupid lonely bitch. Poor poor bitch. Get a life, really.

How's that ignore feature working for you?

[moonshine]

(at level 98), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
~
Armor Use..........................| 150 50 (2 ranks Armored Evasion, brigandine armor)
Shield Use.........................| 200 100 (buckler)
Combat Maneuvers...................| 300 200
Edged Weapons......................| 300 200 (get a nice dagger and axe)
Ambush.............................| 250 150
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 50 10
Physical Fitness...................| 225 125
Dodging............................| 300 200
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20
Harness Power......................| 93 21
Disarming Traps....................| 325 225
Picking Locks......................| 300 200
Stalking and Hiding................| 325 225
Perception.........................| 250 150
Climbing...........................| 150 50
Swimming...........................| 150 50
Minor Elemental....................| 10

~

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 4
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 5
Combat Mobility mobility 1
Surge of Strength surge 5
Evade Mastery emastery 2
Divert divert 5
Cunning Defense cdefense 5
Vanish vanish 3

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 9

~

You have 59 ranks in the Stun Maneuvers skill.
You have 34 ranks in the Lock Mastery skill.
Master of Sweep.
Master of Subdue.
Master of Cheap Shot.
Master of Rogue Gambits.

70 mana
125 stamina

tons of fun

[msconstrew]

It looks like I have just enough CMAN points for:

5 ranks of Shadow Mastery
2 ranks of Combat Mobility
3 ranks of Surge of Strength
2 ranks of Vanish


I think opinions may vary on this issue, but I use Vanish 1000x more than I use Surge (and I am in MBP). Surge is costly and doesn't last terribly long, and the AS buff really isn't a lifesaver. But Vanish can be a lifesaver, despite Gib's assertions about its uselessness to those of us in heavier armor. So, personally I would finish Vanish before Surge, but that's just me.

[Gelston]

Seriously, how weak and feeble-minded does a person have to be to be unable to handle the occasional insult, so much so that he needs to utilize an ignore function? That someone should have his internet connection severed.

I will say, based off of this.... You are just trolling him. So yes, he does have a reason to ignore you. You don't play GS anymore right? But you are responding to him in a GS based thread right? As much of a dick as he is, you are being a bitch here. And no, being a bitch isn't a good thing and never was.

[Mumblz]

Except when you are surfing and all like, Yo that wave was totally bitchin dood!

Also, I never used my CMAN points as a rogue in full plate to get back on my feet but I do have the one that allows me to vanish in RT....I have about 150 Cmans points and won't be getting up to 200 until I've mastered a second weapon style (hurled), cuz i'm so hurly BITCHES!

[Scintillion]

Should be applying my fixskills tonight to migrate to:

Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Shield Use.........................| 148 50
Combat Maneuvers.......... ...| 169 69
Edged Weapons..................| 200 100
Ambush.............................| 198 100
Physical Fitness..................| 196 100
Dodging............................| 149 100
Arcane Symbols.................| 70 15
Magic Item Use..................| 35 7
Harness Power...................| 20 4
Survival............................| 86 0
Disarming Traps..................| 194 94
Picking Locks......................| 194 100
Stalking and Hiding..............| 200 100
Perception.........................| 196 50
Climbing............................| 90 20
Swimming.........................| 50 10
First Aid...........................| 149 0




A complete waste of a fixskills.