Slammers

[Straight-up]

Heh so I was running through the East Market invisible in OTF today and saw this...


[Old Ta'Faendryl, East Market]
A twisted limb has snaked its way through a fissure in the crumbling wall, stretching its way into the open plaza as if struggling to squeeze past, into the sunlight. Twigs and branches claw at the crumbling stone on each edge of the gap, as if intent on forcing enough open space for the entire tree to enter. You also see a war griffin that is flying around and a twisted crystal-tipped staff.
Also here: High Lord Virilneus who is lying down
Obvious paths: north, east, west
Virilneus just left.


I hate slammers, especially those who seem to think they are the shit as far as a good hunter.

He didn't disco either :

Virilneus left at 6:57 pm.


Anyway..feel free to rant on about the idiots you see slamming.


Straight

[Edited on 8-16-2003 by Straight-up]

[Scott]

The griffin will just come back with a AS of 975. He'll probably die anyway.

[Scott]

That actually brings me to another point. Most of the time when you slam, you tend to get nailed. The thing I've seen a lot is a rogue ambushing something and parrying, then he logs. When he comes back he's in full defensive. Or if a wizard and a rogue get knocked down, the wizard and rogue slam. They come back, the wizard gets his head splattered while the rogue with redux lives.

If you want to stop slammers it's really quite easy, however the GM's are just too stupid to realize it. Instead they put code in to every critter to fix it.


QUIT/EXIT
RT: 20 seconds

How simple is that?

[Artha]

That's retarded, and I hate games that do that.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Artha
That's retarded, and I hate games that do that.

You hate games that make you wait to log out?

[CrystalTears]

Because then you can't cheat. :D

[Bobmuhthol]

<<The griffin will just come back with a AS of 975. He'll probably die anyway.>>

That only happens if you're stunned.. I think.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<The griffin will just come back with a AS of 975. He'll probably die anyway.>>

That only happens if you're stunned.. I think.

Not in OTF for sure, and I believe other places. I'm 100% sure if you are knocked down by a Griffin in OTF and log, you will deal with a griffin who has a 975 AS. I'm pretty sure if you are knocked down by any critter with a ewave/callwind/sweep or tackle, and log, you deal with the super critter.

[Zentoph]

You hate games that make you wait to log out?
-Gemstone101

Heh, I'd hate if I had to wait twenty seconds for Gemstone to quit. Say I'm playing late, go to shutdown my computer and it says "Gemstone is not responding. End Now or wait?" Slammers don't impact the game in such a bad way that it is crumbling the intricate web of roleplay which Elanthia has had weaved by its players..

Oh.. Wait, what roleplay?

[Scott]

Originally posted by Zentoph
You hate games that make you wait to log out?
-Gemstone101

Heh, I'd hate if I had to wait twenty seconds for Gemstone to quit. Say I'm playing late, go to shutdown my computer and it says "Gemstone is not responding. End Now or wait?" Slammers don't impact the game in such a bad way that it is crumbling the intricate web of roleplay which Elanthia has had weaved by its players..

Oh.. Wait, what roleplay?

Lets say you are playing Gemstone that late at night that you want to shut down your computer...... is it THAT much of a hassle to wait 20 seconds? Slammers have impacted the game. When someone actually disconnects from the game, they get a super critter. That DOES effect me. 20 seconds isn't a big deal. If you have plans to leave at 11:00PM to go to the bar, then quit gemstone at 10:59 and 40 seconds. 20 seconds doesn't hurt your schedule....

[StrayRogue]

You can log in front of a critter, IF you are not stunned/incapacitated due to its attacks.

[Zentoph]

Well, in trying to 'save' roleplay, you'll also be hurting it. Say someone stumbles across your character while the roundtime is happening, and tries to interact, whatever. Say it is a close friend, husband, or someone who your character really need to talk to for an important reason.

I don't care if they do something to try and prevent slammers, but not twenty seconds of the Wizard still being open, or the wizard closed and your character still in the game.

[Bobmuhthol]

Let's say I have a gun pointed at my head. The guy says, "Get out of GemStone in 19 seconds or you're dead." That 20 second roundtime will kill my character if I'm hunting, and will kill me because it took too long.

[Weedmage Princess]

It does suck, but putting in a 20 sec. rt to disconnect would be more of a pain than a help. Like mentioned above, it's not THAT big of a deal to implement something that big.

[Scott]

I guess I don't see the problem in waiting 20 seconds. It just doesn't seem like a big deal to me..... The only problem I see is if little billy isn't suppose to be playing Gemstone and Mommy comes home and he can't log off quick enough to avoid getting caught.

[imported_Kranar]

Simple solution would be to not allow logging out while you're stunned.

So you type "quit", and if you're stunned, the game automatically disconnects you when you unstun.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Kranar
Simple solution would be to not allow logging out while you're stunned.

So you type "quit", and if you're stunned, the game automatically disconnects you when you unstun.

But that doesn't help people who log out when they botch an ambush, someone who is call winded, ewaved, or bound.

[imported_Kranar]

Fine, add RT in there too.

Just make it so if you can't move into another room, then you can't disconnect either.

[StrayRogue]

I think the system works fine as it is. It is hardly a regular tactic used and abused by all.

[Scott]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I think the system works fine as it is. It is hardly a regular tactic used and abused by all.

I completely disagree. Go to fireguardians once for 5 minutes and I'll bet you see AT LEAST one person log out on a cloud...... I see it all the time, it's sad really.

[imported_Kranar]

<< I think the system works fine as it is. It is hardly a regular tactic used and abused by all. >>

If it isn't a regular tactic used and abused by all, then what do you stand to lose if it's implemented?

If it's true, that the majority of players do not slam, then what difference would it make if a system were put in place such that if you're prone in some form, you are unable to disconnect immediately?

Honestly I think a system whereby typing "quit" waits until your no longer prone would be a perfect solution, it is also what every other MUD game I've seen uses.

Graphical games use the timer.

[Edited on 8-17-2003 by Kranar]

[StrayRogue]

Ah that does sound OK. Not stunned/bound/slept etc would probably be good actually.

[Artha]

when I type quit, I want to quit now. Not in 20 seconds, not in 5 seconds.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Artha
when I type quit, I want to quit now. Not in 20 seconds, not in 5 seconds.

When I see people slam I want to see them die, however we all don't get what we want.

If you wanna slam, open the SGE and highlight a locker character before you go hunt.

When you get stunned, lick the button and your stunned character will disconnect, escaping any future retribution.

- --[ Klaive ]-- -

[GS4Gurl]

lick the button? Okay are you getting the boards mixed up with silvergate again?

lol

[Terrorize]

Originally posted by Demon Lord Kage
If you wanna slam, open the SGE and highlight a locker character before you go hunt.

When you get stunned, lick the button and your stunned character will disconnect, escaping any future retribution.

- --[ Klaive ]-- -

Why is it everytime Klaive speaks I somehow feel a lil bit like I am in a Jerry Springer show?

[StrayRogue]

Weird. I always feel smarter somehow.

[Edited on 17-8-03 by StrayRogue]

Log out, but leave the character ghosted for 20 seconds then.

- Arkans

[Gokkem]

In another game I play it takes a minimum of 20 seconds to log out. If you've been in combat recently, that timer is upped to closer to 40 seconds. You cannot quit while dead (when you relog in you have 'decayed').

I think slamming is a sad part of the game, and those who say it isn't abused or whatnot are just flat wrong, because even with implementation of 'super critters' it still happens all the time.

[Reyek]

i admit it i slam to save myself sometimes. but only if im out in the middle of no where where i know i'll decay

a night mare stuns you...
quit
welcome back
sign darkness
the darkness enfolds you
...safe on the ledge

Yey no RT no stun im alive no decay. Only done that 2 times ever and only because no one in the world is around at 4AM in steeds and mares....

[CrystalTears]

You're abusing mechanics to get out of the stun to be able to sign out though.

Take your death (and/or decay) like a man.

[Edited on 8/17/2003 by CrystalTears]

[Scott]

That crap should be a straight, no warning, 60 day ban, if you get caught a second time... permaban

[HarmNone]

It seems that people can always come up with an excuse to abuse the system, yet are quick to complain when the abuses result in changes to the system made for the express purpose of stopping the abuse.

Amazing, really.

HarmNone

[Artha]

If you see it happening, report them for Mechabuse. It's against policy.

[Taernath]

I don't slam, but I don't want to see a 20 second quit RT tacked on either. That just punishes everyone when there are easier methods to deal with slammers.

The current way could be improved by just getting rid of that stance reset to defensive when you log back in. Make it so you log in to whatever stance you were in when you left.

[Betheny]

Or the game could just not re-set the RT timer and your stance.

[Betheny]

By the way, I really hate people that use 130, and for whatever reason (They're in danger, they're lazy, they're really dumb) they log out and login again to escape the roundtime.

If you don't want to accept the consequences of using 130 (albeit the consequences do SUCK) then don't freaking use it. I've seen at least 5 people do this during invasions when they slam, login, cast 213 -- and then are saved. Ugh.

[AnticorRifling]

I like the come back in the position, stance, and with the RT you had idea. If that carries over and the enraged critter shows up people will learn real fast not to slam.

I buy deeds for a reason. If I make a mistake in combat I do this weird thing called dying. What fun is there in hunting if you can't ever die? The fun in that just escapes me. But then you have the folks that say well no one is around I don't want to decay, I don't want to lose the 10k exp, blah, blah blah. Then don't hunt then/there. I've had a few 100k exp lvls and I just went through them. People that always look for the easy way out piss me off and need a kick in the gums. It's a lack of backbone, mettle, whatever you want to call it it's lacking.

[Betheny]

Death's a part of life in Elanthia. Deal with it, or become an empath. Or reroll and hunt rats if you really hate dying all that much.

Sacrifices must be made to gain a reward. If you want to train to a higher level, you've got to risk your ass. Quitting out when you get your butt kicked is a lot like stacking the cards, or using a video camera to see what the dealer's holding, or whatever you want to define 'CHEATING' as.

Originally posted by Maimara
Death's a part of life in Elanthia. Deal with it, or become an empath. Or reroll and hunt rats if you really hate dying all that much.

Sacrifices must be made to gain a reward. If you want to train to a higher level, you've got to risk your ass. Quitting out when you get your butt kicked is a lot like stacking the cards, or using a video camera to see what the dealer's holding, or whatever you want to define 'CHEATING' as.

Not true. I don't slam myself, but I don't need to. I just badly underhunt. I have never once been killed during the course of a "normal" hunt. All of the times I've died have either been by my own hand, another player's hand, some miscellanious odd occurance (lightning bolts, jumping out of a tree, suffocating, falling from a climb, forgetting either my weapon, shield or spells) or passing by a monster much older than me who I never had any intention of hunting.

I hunt way below my head to ensure that my chances of dying are basically non-existant. That's the fun of GS for me.

- --[ Klaive ]-- -

[Reyek]

yea i know its wrong to do it. doesnt mean i cant be smarter then the system. honestly i thought i would die from it anyway didnt think the steeds would let me darkness before they returned from the fray

[CrystalTears]

And the day you get caught, don't come crying here when we told you that you can get banned for it. I think getting a death and decay would be better than getting banned, don't you?

[Soulpieced]

And the day you get caught, don't come crying here when we told you that you can get banned for it. I think getting a death and decay would be better than getting banned, don't you?

.

<------- Has never decayed before. Anyway, I remember I used to slam all the time back on AOL. But I certainly have never attempted to with the new rage mechanic.

[Reyek]

not arguing about it being against policy and shouldnt be done. Not like i do it all the time only did it twice. personally i think there should be code written to prevent things of the sort. no 20 second departure wait. but like cant use certain powers and spells upon arrival for maybe 10-20 seconds.

[Reyek]

Speaking of mechanics abuse or game bugs.... When Nations first came out you used to be be able to get the ferry between Vaalor and Ta'illistim take it back to Vaalor and sell it for 1 mil silver. was able to do this over and over again. YOu also could drop the ferry in victory court and it woudl do all the actions its supposed to do when your on it. I reported that and that stopped instantly like before the next ferry would even show up
they also cleaned out the silver that i made from it from my bank account. kinda funny how they would even put a price tag on a item like that or how a character can even pick up a ferry and put it in his backpack. It only weighted 5 lbs if i remember correctly

[HarmNone]

**I remember I used to slam all the time back on AOL. But I certainly have never attempted to with the new rage mechanic.**

Exactly my point. Many of the most irritating things in GS can be traced to efforts to stop people from abusing that which they should know not to abuse in the first place. Warn and critter rage are just a couple of them.

I wonder how much fun the game would be, and how much easier for the GMs to work in, if people would simply act like adults in the first place, without the need for tweaks to the system to force them to change their behavior.

[Bastard]

>>In another game I play it takes a minimum of 20 seconds to log out. If you've been in combat recently, that timer is upped to closer to 40 seconds. You cannot quit while dead (when you relog in you have 'decayed'.<<

I'm glad Mythic had the foresight to put that particular mechanic in place. I'm honestly baffled why Simutronics hasn't done the same, when slamming has been a persistant problem for years.

Twenty seconds just isn't a big deal. Hell, adjust it so that there's no log out timer unless you've been in combat within the last 30 seconds or something. Seems like a no-brainer.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Allright. I guess I will stand up at be the first to admit to frequent slamming.

I will slam when stunned while hunting, Call winding, maneuver attack RT. I do it because I cannot stand dealing with clerics and will depart when I die. I do not slam during duels or when others are around.

If they added a 20 second RT I wouldnt complain, but I certainly dont want them to change the quit verb. As for the retribution attack of creatures it can vary in both time and circumstance. If you are disabled in front of some creatures they will appear when you log in and often attack immediately or prep a spell. The time maxes out at around 4-5 hours until it is safe to return. This fact alone makes it a tough choice to slam, as you just bought yourself a halfday lockout more often than not.

Remove my leather
Wear my plate
Post Def
....Flame away...

[Edaarin]

It was funny watching some warrior (think his name was Envim or something) during the Jant invasions. He'd tackle, and if he missed he'd slam. I wound up reporting it, because I was getting sick of seeing him log in and out every 7 seconds. Next time he did it, a marchlord whacked him into next week and stole his warlord mace or something like that.

[Bobby]

Wouldn't it be cool just to have QUIT/EXIT not work in hunting areas?

I can just imagine what some people would say about that idea!

:bounce:

[Artha]

Uhhh...no.

[Scott]

Sounds good to me. Make it so you have to be on a node, sancted area, or in town to log out..... Then you don't have to worry about 20 seconds to log out......

[Scott]

Back to the 20 second RT for logging out idea!

[Artha]

So...what happens if you're walking between the landing and Zul Logoth, and you have to leave the game for whatever reason? 'Sorry that you are, for whatever reason, suffering massive bleeding to the head, but you may not log out.'

It's fine the way it is. If someone logs out because an ambush failed, report them for mech abuse.

[Ben]

It's a bitch and a half to log out of ultima online

[Gokkem]

Why Ben?

[Ben]

Cuz if you aren't in an Inn or in your house when you log out you stay logged into the game for like 10 mins and just stand there. Your computer can be off and you'll still be standing there like a zombie.
So basically anytime you get booted from the game you come back in dead.

[Gokkem]

Oh now that's stupid. I don't see why everyone bitches about a 20 sec rt/40 sec if in combat to exit. I've heard alot of excuses like "If I have to go somewhere in an emergency I can't wait 20 sec!". Well, um, who said you have to sit there for 20 sec? Type exit and walk away; after 20 sec (or 40) the connection is dropped and the wizard closes. I don't see the big deal here.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Gokkem
Oh now that's stupid. I don't see why everyone bitches about a 20 sec rt/40 sec if in combat to exit. I've heard alot of excuses like "If I have to go somewhere in an emergency I can't wait 20 sec!". Well, um, who said you have to sit there for 20 sec? Type exit and walk away; after 20 sec (or 40) the connection is dropped and the wizard closes. I don't see the big deal here.

2 reasons:

1. They slam themselves and they don't want that taken away
2. They aren't allowed to play and their parents will kill them if they catch them playing. When their parents get home they have to sign off ASAP, 20 seconds would get them caught.

[Gokkem]

Well it's something that not only would be easy to implement, but I think overall the Gemstone population wouldn't mind it. It puzzles me why it hasn't been implemented. Could it be that some of our current decision makers are or have been slammers themselves? I'm not sure, speculating here. Give me some feedback. Or just tell me to stfu I don't care.

[Taernath]

STFU Gokkem. :yes:

My dislike of the 20 second wait timer has nothing to do with me slamming or my parents catching me (heh). It's just pure inconvenience. Would you want to have to wait 20 seconds before your browser closes?

[imported_Kranar]

I still maintain that the best solution is the solution used by pretty much all MUDs out there.

If you're stunned, or in RT, or prone in anyway, then when you type exit, the game waits for the instant your RT or stun or whatever wears off, and you're logged off.

[Gokkem]

Originally posted by Taernath
STFU Gokkem. :yes:

My dislike of the 20 second wait timer has nothing to do with me slamming or my parents catching me (heh). It's just pure inconvenience. Would you want to have to wait 20 seconds before your browser closes?

Oh come on! Are you serious? 20 seconds for your browser to close? Big deal! Planning to get off the computer? Walk away. Want to surf to another page? Minimize GS and start surfing in new window. 20 seconds for your browser to auto-close is nothing. I agree with Gemstone101, but obviously the gm's don't think it's a problem. ::shrugs::

[Ben]

Why dont they just make it like UO and have your browser close but you are still IG for the RT.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Ben
Why dont they just make it like UO and have your browser close but you are still IG for the RT.

If you disconnect in UO without setting up camp, you are there until the system determines the connection dead. This can take a less than a minute all the way to 10 minutes depending on traffic. Disconnecting in UO without a camp also prohibits you from logging in another character on any shard until the connection is dropped, except of course the character still in game.

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of exit routine in place. The only time this would be an inconvenience would be if something arose that I had to exit right then and there. Gold rings, major/minor sanct, symbol of return, sign of darkness, and any of the teleporting spells makes a straight disconnect less dangerous.

[AnticorRifling]

Why not have the game bring you back in the stance, position, with the RT, etc that you had when you left?

You miss an ambush and quit you come back and you're in offensive stance, have to wait 6 seconds to do anything and bam an enraged rat takes your head. People would learn it's easier to take the hit from the normal critter than from the enraged one.

[Tsa`ah]

That would do it. The only time you come back in offensive is if you jacked while stunned.

While it wouldn't stop all slamming, it would seriously curb those do it when the initial attack fails.

Edited to add:
Anti should change his signature to "Who's my daddy?!" or "Who's my daddy now?!"

[Edited on 8-28-2003 by Tsa`ah]

[Scott]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
That would do it. The only time you come back in offensive is if you jacked while stunned.

While it wouldn't stop all slamming, it would seriously curb those do it when the initial attack fails.

I'm pretty sure you still come back in defensive when you are stunned....... I'll have to do some testing to see though.

[Artha]

No, you come back in offensive while stunned, and if a critter did it, they come back with a huge AS.

[Scott]

I did a little testing and, while stunned you do come back in offensive.

However if you are in offensive and get ewaved, you come back in defensive and in no RT.

[imported_Kranar]

Is the reason that no one has responded to my suggestion, because it's the one that makes sense?

I really am curious because I plan to use that system in my own game and if there's a problem with it, let it be known.

[Bobmuhthol]

Your suggestion sucks and I hate it and everyone else hates it and we hate you so much we want to cry a lot and a bunch of other stuff.

Seems good.

Now finish your game.

[imported_Kranar]

Heh, I'll let you log on sometime as an Architect. You can make spells now.

[Bobmuhthol]

The sooner the better. And uhh.. do you remember what MUD client I was using? I got rid of my old computer.

[Artha]

Kranar: What if you're leaving to escape a bastard who keeps stunning you, for the only purpose of not letting you leave?

Just let them log out whenever they want, and if they're leaving because of a critter, put them back in offensive, and give the critter +200 AS for that first shot.

[imported_Kranar]

<< What if you're leaving to escape a bastard who keeps stunning you, for the only purpose of not letting you leave? >>

No, my suggestion automatically logs you off the INSTANT you're unstunned. The WizardFE will close, or whatever client you're using will close as soon as you type in EXIT, but your character will remain ghosted until you're unstunned at which point it will log off. It's a computer so the absolute microsecond that you're unstunned you will be logged off automatically by the system.

[Edited on 8-28-2003 by Kranar]

[imported_Kranar]

<< What if you're leaving to escape a bastard who keeps stunning you, for the only purpose of not letting you leave? >>

I should also point out that doing this is game mechanics abuse and the GMs do take it seriously.

If someone is stunning you repeatedly over and over, you are supposed to report them. If you log off, then it's seen as logging off to avoid a conflict and you can get banned for it.