Words

[Tisket]

...and how we use them.

Motivated to create a thread by this conversation:


Female is an adjective, woman/girl/lady/human is a noun.


It can be either noun or adjective.

Or maybe I am missing a subtle joke here? It's far more likely that is the case than that Nikki doesn't know this already.


God dammit Tisket, blowing up my spot and making me explain myself. Hrrrrmph.

YES, it can be used either way. Though typically it needs to be used as an adjective prior to a noun before it's used then on as a noun.. i.e. "The female lion waits in her den for the cubs to be born. Once born, the female must protect them from predators and male lions. The female must keep her young protected while she goes forth and yada yada nat geo fuckery fuck fuck."

But really I said that because for fucks sake men everywhere, stop referring to women as "females". It makes you sound so fucking socially retarded and not at all scientific and smart or anything but like you're dipshit loser. If you can legally have sex with a female human being, she is a woman. If you can't, she's a girl. If you want to be a smartass or invoke slang or just do what you want, use girl or whatever else... gal, lady, lass, I don't give a fuck. But use of the word "female" is grating, and annoying as shit, and makes me want to punch face with forks strapped to my knuckles.

That is all and good day.


So you're severely butthurt at someone saying you (general you) using the term "female" while referring to women, regularly, without any sort of humanizing noun additive, makes you sound like a neckbearded mouthbreathing fucktard who tries too hard to sound smart.

Simple solution is take note and to just start calling women, women.

Or you can hard mode solution try to punch me in the cunt and my vagina dentata mauls the shit out of your hand.

Your move PK!


I'm the only woman in the majority of my classes and I'm referred to much more often than not as "the female". As in I'm pretty sure half of my classmates aren't aware I have a name, I am simply "the female". This was something I braced for when I went into the major I did but I'm not going to pretend it's not obnoxious and grating as fuck and it's slowly made me more and more aware of how men the internet over refer to women as such without apparently realizing how assy it makes them sound. By all means they can use whatever terminology they want because "lol fuck females am i right? i r best troll ever!" or write me off as crazy (females are crazy is such a new and original tactic!), but I figure if even one guy stops to think about it and ends up giving half of a shit, that's enough for me. I don't particularly give a fuck who it bothers for me to say as much. (edit to add that I'm not implying this bothers you in particular)

[diethx]

Men:

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Robin-Hood-Tights-bh03.jpg

[Tisket]

I have to agree to a degree...there is a tendency to dismiss a woman's opinions based solely on their gender but I disagree that the word "female" is or has a negative connotation.

[Back]

Indubitably.

[Showal]

Men:

http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Robin-Hood-Tights-bh03.jpg

Look at all those meatbags with dicks!

[Liagala]

Moving this over here:

I'm the only woman in the majority of my classes and I'm referred to much more often than not as "the female". As in I'm pretty sure half of my classmates aren't aware I have a name, I am simply "the female". This was something I braced for when I went into the major I did but I'm not going to pretend it's not obnoxious and grating as fuck and it's slowly made me more and more aware of how men the internet over refer to women as such
See, this is where the problem starts. Honestly, "the female" is no different than being "the kid with glasses" or "the quiet one in the back" - it's a description waiting for a personality to become attached to it, nothing more. Let said personality out - "the female" will very quickly either be forgotten, or turn into a joking nickname. You eliminate a source of annoyance for you, and reinforce to every last guy in the class that girls are awesome, at the same time.

[Tisket]

Look at all those meatbags with dicks!

Check your rep comments.

[Gnome Rage]

Can we take a brief pause in the arguement about female and discuss how creepy the word moist is.

[Keller]

Can we . . . discuss how creepy the word moist is.

I agree, but only when used in reference to females.

[thefarmer]

I have to agree to a degree...there is a tendency to dismiss a woman's opinions based solely on their gender but I disagree that the word "female" is or has a negative connotation.

Linsensitive!












Male? Manly? Men? Man-ish opinions can/have/are/will be dismissed based on gender too. Example? Child-raising.

[Gnome Rage]

I agree, but only when used in reference to females.

are you moist for me, bby?

[Showal]

Linsensitive!












Male? Manly? Men? Man-ish opinions can/have/are/will be dismissed based on gender too. Example? Child-raising.


Wasn't Jeremy Lin the chink in their armor?

[Delarock]

Wasn't Jeremy Lin the chink in their armor?

How the fuck did that title get cleared?

Anyways... Does anyone have a degree in linguistics, or studied linguistics in any form? I have a couple questions for you if you did.

[Androidpk]

How the fuck did that title get cleared?

Because believe it or not, not everyone is so goddamn sensitive.

[Latrinsorm]

Should have been a rule of wrist.

.

What's really interesting is words and critical mass. No one here would seriously use the word "colored" (right?), not even the pompously anti political correctness people. Yet you could certainly put forth the same arguments made for using any other word:
-the user doesn't find it offensive
-it is technically correct
-there are absolutely more offensive terms
-words don't hurt
-attributing pushback to militance on the part of the minority

This suggests that the explicit arguments made aren't really what's motivating people. Is it just herd mentality? Can there be shepherds, or are we at the mercy of some collective unconscious whim, and suddenly and inexplicably we'll snap over into no one using female (or whatever)?

[Androidpk]

Should have been a rule of wrist.

:lol2:

[thefarmer]

Wasn't Jeremy Lin the chink in their armor?

LINFLAMED!!!111


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_msb7eQA-RFY/SnNi27m4GyI/AAAAAAAABZA/584BooDL2Q4/s400/angry-asian-man-quick-kick.jpg

[Gnome Rage]

I once used the word colored because that is what my dad used to say growing up and I didn't know better.

I got some looks.

[thefarmer]

How the fuck did that title get cleared?



It's an overused sports cliche and since yellows don't play real sports, well...


edit: Wait. Mathletes are athletes, right?!

[Showal]

I once used the word colored because that is what my dad used to say growing up and I didn't know better.

I got some looks.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/666/_57c8a1a431a592af806925e57258202f.png

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I have to agree to a degree...there is a tendency to dismiss a woman's opinions based solely on their gender but I disagree that the word "female" is or has a negative connotation.

It's less that "female" has an inherent negative connotation and more that it's used a lot in a way that's very alienating/"othering" (to use a sociology term) by a lot of men, particularly in my personal experiences. To boot, I get the impression that it's not an intentional slight or behavior but rather a subconscious thing, hence why after pondering over the how and why of why it annoys me I decided I won't just keep my yap shut on it, you know? I figured if I was subconsciously referring to half of the population in a way that a good chunk of them found to be kind of shitty, I'd want to know it.

I don't, for instance, actually think of or ever really refer to men as meatbags with dicks unless I'm intentionally trying to be inflammatory. And it's funny because if I say (even in the form of Rodney King grammatical beatdown), "Hey, you using this term is kind of unintentionally dehumanizing, you should know there's a lot of women who will side-eye the fuck out of you and make assumptions about you by saying that" it's met with all sorts of "But but but" justifications, but I make a flippant remark that turns the tables and immediately it's picked up on negatively (not by you, I'd have been disappointed if you hadn't have noticed). So women need to learn to take a joke, but men... what? Shouldn't get at least a small taste of what that feels like? I mean, and it's relatively mild coming from me given I've made it clear (I think) that I really love guys and respect them, and their gender as a whole. I'm not a bra burning feminist who's going to boycott shaving her armpits to stick it to the men, I just think the casual way "female" as a term is used to describe human women is problematic.


Moving this over here:

See, this is where the problem starts. Honestly, "the female" is no different than being "the kid with glasses" or "the quiet one in the back" - it's a description waiting for a personality to become attached to it, nothing more. Let said personality out - "the female" will very quickly either be forgotten, or turn into a joking nickname. You eliminate a source of annoyance for you, and reinforce to every last guy in the class that girls are awesome, at the same time.

It is different though.

This isn't really my first rodeo in being one of very few girls among boys, I mean shit, I demanded to play flag football at the age of 7, most of my social circle growing up was guys, and even in school I had a few classes where there wasn't a lot of lady representation (principles of technology, drafting). Hell, my previous profession as a chef left me in a pretty laissez faire environment as far as being "sexually harassed" and needing a think skin.

But, for real, I had never encountered such a staunch unwillingness to let go of the fact that I have a vagina until I went into electrical engineering. You know me IRL Lisa, do you really think I'm a shrinking wallflower sitting in the back of the class and not interacting? My peers and professors call me Nikki to my face, they know a lot about who I am as a person, but when I'm referred to in a wider setting I stop being Nikki and immediately revert back to "the female." And you know, I thought this was just me being overly sensitive at first, I thought the problem was with me that that actually bothered me.. that I know these guys, I study with them, I participate in our group projects, I even offer help and advice to them when I'm better than them at something, and my name is sufficiently feminine enough to denote that I am in fact, "the female" without pointing it out, that that was still how I was widely identified. But then I started talking online to other women in STEM majors and jobs and it was actually refreshing to realize that no, I'm not the only woman bothered by this, in fact this is pretty common, though perhaps being in the field/course of study makes us a little more aware of it.

To be clear, my whole position/rant/whatever you want to call it on this is not that men who use the term female in that way are shitty people (no matter how much at time my annoyance turns to full blown anger which in turn makes me vindictive). It's just that starting with my own experiences and then turning outwards and observing "in the wild" in the contexts that women are referred to as females, I can't see it as any way other than alienating whether intentional or not. It's pretty much never "I want to spend the rest of my life with this female" or "This female is my best friend" or anything of that sort, it's always got some undertone of a gaping chasm (insert vagina joke here) that exists between men and women that in reality, doesn't really exist.

TL;DR Excitingly conical outerspace aliens invade earth and turn everything into coconuts.

[Androidpk]

It's an overused sports cliche

That saying goes back a lot further than ESPN or any other sports establishment.

[Delarock]

I don't know if I'm being sensitive... But I think that the term "chink" is on that collection of derogatory terms that should never be used.

Is this because I'm a yellow?

[Showal]

It's less that "female" has an inherent negative connotation and more that it's used a lot in a way that's very alienating/"othering" (to use a sociology term) by a lot of men, particularly in my personal experiences. To boot, I get the impression that it's not an intentional slight or behavior but rather a subconscious thing, hence why after pondering over the how and why of why it annoys me I decided I won't just keep my yap shut on it, you know? I figured if I was subconsciously referring to half of the population in a way that a good chunk of them found to be kind of shitty, I'd want to know it.

I don't, for instance, actually think of or ever really refer to men as meatbags with dicks unless I'm intentionally trying to be inflammatory. And it's funny because if I say (even in the form of Rodney King grammatical beatdown), "Hey, you using this term is kind of unintentionally dehumanizing, you should know there's a lot of women who will side-eye the fuck out of you and make assumptions about you by saying that" it's met with all sorts of "But but but" justifications, but I make a flippant remark that turns the tables and immediately it's picked up on negatively (not by you, I'd have been disappointed if you hadn't have noticed). So women need to learn to take a joke, but men... what? Shouldn't get at least a small taste of what that feels like? I mean, and it's relatively mild coming from me given I've made it clear (I think) that I really love guys and respect them, and their gender as a whole. I'm not a bra burning feminist who's going to boycott shaving her armpits to stick it to the men, I just think the casual way "female" as a term is used to describe human women is problematic.



It is different though.

This isn't really my first rodeo in being one of very few girls among boys, I mean shit, I demanded to play flag football at the age of 7, most of my social circle growing up was guys, and even in school I had a few classes where there wasn't a lot of lady representation (principles of technology, drafting). Hell, my previous profession as a chef left me in a pretty laissez faire environment as far as being "sexually harassed" and needing a think skin.

But, for real, I had never encountered such a staunch unwillingness to let go of the fact that I have a vagina until I went into electrical engineering. You know me IRL Lisa, do you really think I'm a shrinking wallflower sitting in the back of the class and not interacting? My peers and professors call me Nikki to my face, they know a lot about who I am as a person, but when I'm referred to in a wider setting I stop being Nikki and immediately revert back to "the female." And you know, I thought this was just me being overly sensitive at first, I thought the problem was with me that that actually bothered me.. that I know these guys, I study with them, I participate in our group projects, I even offer help and advice to them when I'm better than them at something, and my name is sufficiently feminine enough to denote that I am in fact, "the female" without pointing it out, that that was still how I was widely identified. But then I started talking online to other women in STEM majors and jobs and it was actually refreshing to realize that no, I'm not the only woman bothered by this, in fact this is pretty common, though perhaps being in the field/course of study makes us a little more aware of it.

To be clear, my whole position/rant/whatever you want to call it on this is not that men who use the term female in that way are shitty people (no matter how much at time my annoyance turns to full blown anger which in turn makes me vindictive). It's just that starting with my own experiences and then turning outwards and observing "in the wild" in the contexts that women are referred to as females, I can't see it as any way other than alienating whether intentional or not. It's pretty much never "I want to spend the rest of my life with this female" or "This female is my best friend" or anything of that sort, it's always got some undertone of a gaping chasm (insert vagina joke here) that exists between men and women that in reality, doesn't really exist.

TL;DR Excitingly conical outerspace aliens invade earth and turn everything into coconuts.

I have to say that, while I don't think anything negative about the word female, when I hear someone use female alone, I think of Ronnie from the Jersey Shore yelling "YOU DON'T HIT A FEMALE!!!"

I'm not one to get offended, period, especially not by words, but I agree with Nikki and I think someone who uses "female" in the sense she's describing comes off as an idiot. I don't care than they said it, I just think they're an idiot.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Male? Manly? Men? Man-ish opinions can/have/are/will be dismissed based on gender too. Example? Child-raising.

I think only a total idiot would assert otherwise, TBH. It's harmful to both men and women- women are demonized if they don't particularly like or want children (What is wrong with you, are you a sociopath, etc etc etc) but if a man really likes children (becoming a teacher of young kids, running a daycare, etc) they're demonized, accused of being a pedo, and the list rolls on. Typically whats bad for women is also pretty bad for men, especially men who don't fit a pretty narrow "standard".

[thefarmer]

That saying goes back a lot further than ESPN or any other sports establishment.

Well, yes, but he asked why it got approved without a second thought and that's the reason it did. Plus, when's the last time you discussed the pro's and con's of your full plate armor when pondering a defense against the oncoming horde of barbarian invaders?

..... Minus, GS.

[Showal]

I don't know if I'm being sensitive... But I think that the term "chink" is on that collection of derogatory terms that should never be used.

Is this because I'm a yellow?

A lot of people agree, which is why a lot of people got upset over the usage of ESPN's "chink in their armor" headline. Since this is a thread on words and sensitivities on words, it was an appropriate, but maybe off color, joke.

[thefarmer]

I don't know if I'm being sensitive... But I think that the term "chink" is on that collection of derogatory terms that should never be used.

Is this because I'm a yellow?

No, it's because you're overly sensitive.


A lot of people agree, which is why a lot of people got upset over the usage of ESPN's "chink in their armor" headline. Since this is a thread on words and sensitivities on words, it was an appropriate, but maybe off color, joke.

Just as many, if not more, yellow people laughed at all the people (yellow or otherwise) who got offended.

[g++]

I really hope Lysander shows up to weigh in on this conversation.

[Showal]

No, it's because you're overly sensitive.

I prefer using Hai Chee Moo or Hung Moo instead of chink anyways.

[Delarock]

I'm overly sensitive because I have a list of words that shouldn't be used?

[g++]

Please post the full list.

[Showal]

Please post the full list.

and dont leave ANYTHING out, Hung Moo.

[Some Rogue]

Can we take a brief pause in the arguement about female and discuss how creepy the word moist is.


I agree, but only when used in reference to females.


Reminds me of this douche...

http://www.forum.gsplayers.com/member.php?u=707

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I'm overly sensitive because I have a list of words that shouldn't be used?

For me, it's about context.

I'll laugh at the sexist joke coming from a person that I know isn't actually a sexist piece of shit. Anticor comes to mind as someone who regularly brings the lulz to me with women jokes and I'm never mad about it. It's not that way if I know the person actually is really sexist. It's stops being a joke and starts being an opinion or a hyperbole of their opinion. It's the difference between your definitely not-racist friend making an asian joke and your racist as fuck PTSD-from-Vietnam uncle making an asian joke. That being said, I wouldn't say I'm offended (though other people have the right to be offended) so much as I end up pitying the person and/or thinking they just in general kind of suck.

[Androidpk]

I wish George Carlin were alive to chip in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_Nrp7cj_tM

[g++]

Reminds me of this douche...

http://www.forum.gsplayers.com/member.php?u=707


Diethx's future husband if I remember correctly.

[Androidpk]

For me, it's about context.

I'll laugh at the sexist joke coming from a person that I know isn't actually a sexist piece of shit. Anticor comes to mind as someone who regularly brings the lulz to me with women jokes and I'm never mad about it. It's not that way if I know the person actually is really sexist. It's stops being a joke and starts being an opinion or a hyperbole of their opinion. It's the difference between your friend making an asian joke and your racist as fuck PTSD-from-Vietnam uncle making an asian joke. That being said, I wouldn't say I'm offended (though other people have the right to be offended) so much as I end up pitying the person and/or thinking they just in general kind of suck.

If you're implying there is a difference between Delias and Anticor.. :lol:

[thefarmer]

I'm overly sensitive because I have a list of words that shouldn't be used?

There's nothing inherently racist about the phrase 'a chink in the armor'. Seriously. Do you only associate the word chink with azns?

Are there some words that have only racist undertones and have zero meaning otherwise? Sure. Is chink one of them? Naw.

[Liagala]

Reminds me of this douche...

http://www.forum.gsplayers.com/member.php?u=707
Isn't that the guy who thought he was psychic or something?

[Ryvicke]

Using female or females as a noun that refers to human women makes the user sound like an idiot. It's probably derogatory about 80% of the time I hear it. The other 20% is because the person feels funny saying "women" and is an idiot, but means well.

[Tgo01]

Personally I'm offended if I'm referred to as anything but stud.

[g++]

Isn't that the guy who thought he was psychic or something?


You cant prove hes not!

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

If you're implying there is a difference between Delias and Anticor.. :lol:

Er, there are lots of differences between them as people but as far as whether or not they're dyed in the wool misogynists, I wasn't. If I was I'd have outright said "Delias is a sexist piece of shit."

I left out of that equation the more grey stuff about ignorance and privilege and being stubborn and all of that good stuff because it really didn't apply.

[Delarock]

There's nothing inherently racist about the phrase 'a chink in the armor'. Seriously. Do you only associate the word chink with azns?

Are there some words that have only racist undertones and have zero meaning otherwise? Sure. Is chink one of them? Naw.

I don't disagree with you, but the whole issue is context here. Do I feel that that word was chosen specifically because it was Jeremy Lin? Yes. Was I offended? No. Was I surprised that it was published as such? Yeah.

Do I feel that "chink in the armor" is an acceptable phrase? Sure. Do I feel that it has some sort of tacit meaning when used in reference to an Asian? Yup.

I think we'd all agree that it was a poor context to be using that word.

[Showal]

I don't disagree with you, but the whole issue is context here. Do I feel that that word was chosen specifically because it was Jeremy Lin? Yes. Was I offended? No. Was I surprised that it was published as such? Yeah.

Do I feel that "chink in the armor" is an acceptable phrase? Sure. Do I feel that it has some sort of tacit meaning when used in reference to an Asian? Yup.

I think we'd all agree that it was a poor context to be using that word.

ESPN sure did.

[diethx]

Diethx's future husband if I remember correctly.

:puke:

[Delias]

I'm tired of people using the word gyp to imply they were cheated, as it insults my rich gypsy heritage. Also, if they don't want to get cheated, they should stop being such suckers.

My friend Doug (AKA Sheeny-two-kings) is the worst offender. Just because I call him Sheeny-two-kings has nothing to do with him being totally wrong.

My brain is melting- fever reducers are not reducing my fever. Quite the contrary.

I suppose I could be some sort of uber sexist and not know it. Insisting my wife go to college instead of being barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen means something, because I insisted she do it. I also participate in more child care then any man in the entire history of my family, and provide our sole income too. In return my constant, strident demands for sex are occasionally met and once or twice a month someone cooks me dinner.

The internet is the only place where defending yourself actually makes things worse for you... except maybe concentration camps or something. Probably as a sex slave too. I'm an asshole- this is known. Let's just leave it at that.

Or rather, I will try to leave it at that. I compulsively desire the last word, even if it is Tacos.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I'm tired of people using the word gyp to imply they were cheated, as it insults my rich gypsy heritage. Also, if they don't want to get cheated, they should stop being such suckers.

My friend Doug (AKA Sheeny-two-kings) is the worst offender. Just because I call him Sheeny-two-kings has nothing to do with him being totally wrong.

My brain is melting- fever reducers are not reducing my fever. Quite the contrary.

I suppose I could be some sort of uber sexist and not know it. Insisting my wife go to college instead of being barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen means something, because I insisted she do it. I also participate in more child care then any man in the entire history of my family, and provide our sole income too. In return my constant, strident demands for sex are occasionally met and once or twice a month someone cooks me dinner.

The internet is the only place where defending yourself actually makes things worse for you... except maybe concentration camps or something. Probably as a sex slave too. I'm an asshole- this is known. Let's just leave it at that.

Or rather, I will try to leave it at that. I compulsively desire the last word, even if it is Tacos.

Kindly refer to the part where I explicitly state that I don't think you're sexist, fucker!

Also once or twice a month? What do you EAT?

[Delias]

Kindly refer to the part where I explicitly state that I don't think you're sexist, fucker!

Also once or twice a month? What do you EAT?

Mostly fast food- see the numerous posts about my weight.

I am working on it, though. Except now I think I have pneumonia.

[Delias]

Kindly refer to the part where I explicitly state that I don't think you're sexist, fucker!

Also once or twice a month? What do you EAT?

Also, I will fucker you in your sexist hole.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Mostly fast food- see the numerous posts about my weight.

I am working on it, though. Except now I think I have pneumonia.

Everyone I'm talking to lately is sick. I'm wondering if the plague that hospitalized me last month was actually the beginnings of the zombie apocalypse.

[Showal]

Mostly fast food- see the numerous posts about my weight.

I am working on it, though. Except now I think I have pneumonia.

I will hound and harass you seriously if you use this sickness to get off track. Eat right, heal up and get that fat ass back on track. Might sound harsh but I recently had a friend who is quite larger doing real good, got a chest cold, and fell right off. Nothing feeds more into the disillusion that you can't lose weight then getting sick and letting yourself give up.

[Delias]

I will hound and harass you seriously if you use this sickness to get off track. Eat right, heal up and get that fat ass back on track. Might sound harsh but I recently had a friend who is quite larger doing real good, got a chest cold, and fell right off. Nothing feeds more into the disillusion that you can't lose weight then getting sick and letting yourself give up.

Believe me- I have no intention of quitting. I was actually trying to lift my dumbells at least, but I may as well be a female for all the power I was able to muster.

edit: also, I appreciate it.