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View Full Version : Bush Campaign Allegely helping Nader Campaign



Atlanteax
06-30-2004, 11:27 PM
Those clever Republicans...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/30/bush.nader/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Efforts by two conservative groups to help President Bush by getting independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader on the ballot in the key battleground state of Oregon prompted a complaint to the Federal Election Commission Wednesday by a liberal watchdog group.

Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) said phone banks encouraging Bush supporters to attend a Nader nominating convention last Saturday amounted to an illegal in-kind contribution to the Nader campaign by the Oregon Family Council and Oregon Citizens for a Sound Economy.

Bush's re-election campaign and the Oregon Republican Party were also named in the complaint for allegedly participating in the effort. The complaint alleges the groups worked together to promote Nader and siphon potential votes away from Sen. John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee.

Melanie Sloan, executive director of CREW, said the two groups, though non-profit, are still considered corporations, "and corporations are strictly prohibited from making contributions to political campaigns."

While the Bush campaign had no immediate comment, Nader spokesman Kevin Zeese called the allegations "absolute nonsense."

"We didn't work with any Republican groups or any corporations or non-profits trying to get people to come to our event," Zeese said. "We reached out to our constituency and got our people out there."

To get on the ballot, the Nader campaign has to get the signatures of 1,000 registered voters in one day or submit 15,000 signatures statewide. On Saturday, Nader supporters held a convention in Portland to try to get the necessary signatures.

While more than 1,100 people attended, the signatures are still being verified, so it is unclear if the effort was successful.

Whether Nader gets on the ballot in Oregon could be critical in deciding which candidate carries the state and its seven electoral votes. In 2000, Democrat Al Gore beat Bush by less than 7,000 votes in the state.

Published polls show Bush running neck-and-neck with Kerry, with Nader drawing 3 percent to 5 percent of the vote.

The Oregon Family Council is a conservative Christian group that opposes same-sex marriage and abortion rights. Oregon Citizens for a Sound Economy is the state chapter of a national anti-tax group headed by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey.

Both groups openly admit they urged supporters to show up at the Nader event.

"We called about 1,000 folks in the Portland area and said this would be an opportunity to show up to provide clarity in the presidential debate," said Matt Kibbe, president of CSE, who denied the the calls were coordinated with either the Bush or the Nader campaigns.

Kibbe said Nader "forces John Kerry to explain where he is on things.''

In its complaint, CREW also charged that the state GOP encouraged the Oregon Family Council to make the phone calls, which it said amounted to "illegally conspiring" with an outside group to evade a ban on state parties using soft money to send out public communications.

"What the Oregon Republican Party could not do directly, it could not do indirectly," the complaint said.

CREW also cited comments by Bush spokesman Steve Schmidt that campaign volunteers, though not paid staffers, may have made phone calls from the campaign's office. The costs of those calls, including the preparation of phone lists and scripts, should have been reported to the FEC as an in-kind contribution from the Bush campaign to Nader, which would be illegal if it amounted to more than $5,000, the complaint said.

Sloan also told CNN that she is convinced the phone banks were coordinated between the Bush campaign, the Oregon GOP and the two groups, saying "it can't be a coincidence ... that they're all making the same phone calls at the same time." However, she said it is unclear whether the Nader campaign was involved.

"If Ralph Nader gets on the ballot, he would pull thousands of liberal votes that would otherwise go to Kerry and perhaps cause President Bush to win the election," read one script for the phone campaign, which CREW cited in its complaint.

CREW has previously filed complaints against both the Nader and Bush campaigns, alleging illegal assistance from tax-exempt corporations. Zeese, noting that the group has never moved against a Democrat, called it a partisan organization, and he accused Democrats of trying to interfere with the Nader signature drive.

Democrats have been trying to persuade Nader supporters not to back his independent bid this year, arguing that it will help Bush by dividing the liberal vote in closely fought states.

Hulkein
06-30-2004, 11:39 PM
Doesn't look like he'll need it. Kerry lost around 7-8 points in the polls in half a month even with the war problems and F911 prominent right now.

Artha
06-30-2004, 11:46 PM
Every little bit helps. Going by how the states voted in 2000, Bush gained 7 electoral votes while Kerry lost 7. It won't be a cakewalk though.

Wezas
06-30-2004, 11:49 PM
I think it will be neck and neck until the debates.

Latrinsorm
07-01-2004, 12:05 AM
Kerry is going to be destroyed in the debates. It's going to be beautiful.

Galleazzo
07-01-2004, 04:54 AM
Since when did you think Bush was a public speaker?

Mistomeer
07-01-2004, 07:47 AM
People that think Nader cost Gore the election make me laugh.
In the state of Florida, in 2000, Nader got around 30,000 votes.
250,000 Registered democrats voted for Bush in Florida in 2000.

Parkbandit
07-01-2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Galleazzo
Since when did you think Bush was a public speaker?

Heh.. I have to agree.

I'm just thankful it's only Kerry.

Parkbandit
07-01-2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Mistomeer
People that think Nader cost Gore the election make me laugh.
In the state of Florida, in 2000, Nader got around 30,000 votes.
250,000 Registered democrats voted for Bush in Florida in 2000.

The reason is that if those 30,000 people voted for Gore instead of Nader.. then Gore would have won.

07-01-2004, 09:23 AM
Not being a liberal, but going to a college filled with these intellectual parasites, it would seem that PAT BUCHANAN and RALPH NADER whenever used in the same context, should invoke such wretched feelings of horror as to induce massive vomiting, or hysterical laughing.

On a side note, we need bipartisan primaries.

Back
07-01-2004, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Mistomeer
People that think Nader cost Gore the election make me laugh.
In the state of Florida, in 2000, Nader got around 30,000 votes.
250,000 Registered democrats voted for Bush in Florida in 2000.

The reason is that if those 30,000 people voted for Gore instead of Nader.. then Gore would have won.

Gore won the popular vote overall by well over that number. These totals are taken from The National Archives and Records Administration (http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/electoral_college/2000/popular_vote.html)

Bush / Cheney - 50,456,062
Gore / Lieberman - 50,996,582
Nader / LaDuke - 2,858,843
Buchanan / Foster - 438,760
Other - 613,051
Total Votes - 105,363,298

In Florida, the popular vote for Bush was 2,912,790, Gore 2,912,253, Nader 97,488, Buchanan 17,484, and Other 23,055.

[Edited on 7-1-2004 by Backlash]

Back
07-01-2004, 07:51 PM
Guess who got popped with regard to election underhandedness, again. (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=2004070115360001633440&dt=20040701153 600&w=APO&coview=)

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) - The former head of a Republican consulting group has pleaded guilty to jamming Democratic telephone lines in several New Hampshire cities on Election Day two years ago.

Hulkein
07-01-2004, 07:58 PM
If Bush can handle Gore in debates, I don't see him having any trouble with Kerry either.

Not that Gore is some sort of public speaking phenom, but he's about the same as Kerry in my eyes.

Latrinsorm
07-01-2004, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by Backlash
The former head of a Republican consulting group has pleaded guilty to jamming Democratic telephone lines in several New Hampshire cities on Election Day two years ago. Funny, I didn't know people could phone in votes.

Ravenstorm
07-02-2004, 01:35 AM
Some more tactics of the Bush campaign:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=557039 2

I guess asking the Pope for help didn't get enough results.

Raven

Artha
07-02-2004, 01:43 AM
Not all christians <3 the Pope.

Hulkein
07-02-2004, 01:59 AM
Can I ask how that is any different the a candidate talking to the head of a gay community to rally them?

You obviously are disgusted that he is speaking to people who hold the same beliefs as him... why?

Edited to add - Moreso the Pope article. I can see why them asking for directories may bother you, but you acted the same way when he just had a sit down with the Pope.

[Edited on 7-2-2004 by Hulkein]

Ravenstorm
07-02-2004, 02:19 AM
You don't see how the President of the United States asking the Pope to order the American Bishops to increase the frequency and fervor of their support for the religious issues masquerading as his policies violates the separation of church and state just a tiny little bit?

It seems pretty clear to me.

Raven

Hulkein
07-02-2004, 02:24 AM
I'm sorry I see (as does the pope and President) the murder of thousands of babies a social issue, and not just a religious issue.

Artha
07-02-2004, 02:30 AM
You don't see how the President of the United States asking the Pope to order the American Bishops to increase the frequency and fervor of their support for the religious issues masquerading as his policies violates the separation of church and state just a tiny little bit?

No. The constitutional line is 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.'

1) No laws were made.
2) Bush is not Congress
3) He is not supporting a religion. He is asking for help from it's clergy. There is a difference.

edited for clarity.

[Edited on 7-2-2004 by Artha]

Ravenstorm
07-02-2004, 03:14 AM
That's a highly simplistic view and one not supported by the Supreme Court. They repeatedly maintain that Jefferson's 'wall of separation' applies to the government as a whole and it is to refrain from getting entangled in religion. While it is certainly not a clear cut line (hence how they ducked ruling on the 'under God' issue), it is nevertheless there.

Raven

Back
07-02-2004, 10:34 AM
Bush Wants Your Church's Roster (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0002/20040701/2004645728.htm&photoid=20040701WAS07D_WAS7)

"In a move sharply criticized both by religious leaders and civil libertarians, the Bush-Cheney campaign has issued a guide listing about two-dozen "duties" and a series of deadlines for organizing support among conservative church congregations. "