Hollande defeats Sarkozy in French presidency vote

[Jarvan]

So the French Socialist Party is back in power.

Some few things the new President feels are fair.

Telling the EU that France is allowed to have a Higher deficit and debt then previously agreed to.

Throwing out most if not all of the previous Austerity measures.

Anyone who makes 1.3 million a year or more pays 75% tax.

Does anyone think any of the above things would actually be a good thing?

I do have to give the guy props tho, People think Obama is playing the class warfare card, he only says "fair" rate of taxes, won't put a figure on it.

Obama don't have shit on the French.. Take about class warfare, no no.. we don't have to cut back spending.. we will just tax the rich people to the point that they are poor.

I'd love to see someone in the US ask for a 75% tax rate on someone making 1.3 mill a year. Altho.. I bet what they want would effectively be that anyway.

P.S. Don't forget France also has a VAT tax on TOP of the proposed 75% tax.

Got to love Europe.

[Back]

C'mon. They're French. The hardest right French person is the same as Socialist anyway.

[TheEschaton]

This country had a 70-90%ish income tax on the top bracket (which was much lower than 1.35m) until the 80s. Were we a socialist state then?

[Jarvan]

This country had a 70-90%ish income tax on the top bracket (which was much lower than 1.35m) until the 80s. Were we a socialist state then?

I would say the people that Put that tax bracket into place were sure as hell trying to make us one.

Do you want to pay 75% of your income to a government that gives it away?

[Parkbandit]

Do you want to pay 75% of your income to a government that gives it away?

You are asking the wrong guy. He's one of those nuts who would answer yes.

[Back]

All kidding aside a government has to be somewhat socialist to run. Streetlamps don't just grow on trees.

[Parkbandit]

France is fucked. He ran on "we don't have to worry so much about spending" to get elected. Add onto the elections in Greece and you can basically kiss the Euro goodbye.

Markets are going to take a beating today.

[Showal]

France is fucked. He ran on "we don't have to worry so much about spending" to get elected. Add onto the elections in Greece and you can basically kiss the Euro goodbye.

Markets are going to take a beating today.

Huh huh! We don't need ze freakin euro. FOR FWANCE!

[Wrathbringer]

All kidding aside a government has to be somewhat socialist to run. Streetlamps don't just grow on trees.

Yes, because no one in the private sector knows how to construct and maintain streetlamps. :puzzled:

This country has been on the fast track to socialism since FDR. They guy instituted SS, but he didn't get to do half of what he wanted. Check him out on wikipedia sometime. His proposed "2nd Bill of Rights" blew my mind. During the war he pushed for higher income tax rates for individuals (reaching a marginal tax rate of 91%) and corporations and a cap on high salaries for executives. And this guy got elected to three terms. Even back then we were ready to embrace socialism. Fast forward 80 years = $16,000,000,000,000,000.00 debt. Amazing how that works, eh?

[Parkbandit]

Yes, because no one in the private sector knows how to construct and maintain streetlamps. :puzzled:

God.. I cannot believe I'm about to almost defend Backlash.....

One of government's responsibilities is for infrastructure. I don't think Backlash is saying that only a socialist government could raise street lights.. but that taking money (taxes) from the rich and "giving" the poor people street lights is a form of socialism.

He's wrong about what socialism is.. but I hung out with my 11 year old nephew on Saturday.. so I may have some experience dealing with this level of thought.



This country has been on the fast track to socialism since FDR. They guy instituted SS, but he didn't get to do half of what he wanted. Check him out on wikipedia sometime. His proposed "2nd Bill of Rights" blew my mind. During the war he pushed for higher income tax rates for individuals (reaching a marginal tax rate of 91%) and corporations and a cap on high salaries for executives. And this guy got elected to three terms. Even back then we were ready to embrace socialism. Fast forward 80 years = $16,000,000,000,000,000.00 debt. Amazing how that works, eh?

We are finding out what happens when you start running out of other people's money.. the Achilles heel of Socialism.

[Showal]

Bonjour, francois!! Au voir, nikolas!!

[Back]

God.. I cannot believe I'm about to almost defend Backlash.....

One of government's responsibilities is for infrastructure. I don't think Backlash is saying that only a socialist government could raise street lights.. but that taking money (taxes) from the rich and "giving" the poor people street lights is a form of socialism.

He's wrong about what socialism is.. but I hung out with my 11 year old nephew on Saturday.. so I may have some experience dealing with this level of thought.

We are finding out what happens when you start running out of other people's money.. the Achilles heel of Socialism.

Even the taxes of the richest man in the world would not be enough to pave all the roads he might drive on.

[Parkbandit]

Even the taxes of the richest man in the world would not be enough to pave all the roads he might drive on.

http://www.allmotivated.com/pictures/Demotivational-pictures-wtf_Tree.jpg

[Androidpk]

Even the taxes of the richest man in the world would not be enough to pave all the roads he might drive on.

Stop eating fortune cookies for breakfast.

[Keller]

Yes, because no one in the private sector knows how to construct and maintain streetlamps. :puzzled:

I assume you've not had your coffee yet.

Private industry will continue to build and maintain streetlamps. The question is who pays for them.

Fiscally conservative Colorado Springs' citizens learn about government services the hard way. (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14303473)


This country has been on the fast track to socialism since FDR. They guy instituted SS, but he didn't get to do half of what he wanted. Check him out on wikipedia sometime. His proposed "2nd Bill of Rights" blew my mind. During the war he pushed for higher income tax rates for individuals (reaching a marginal tax rate of 91%) and corporations and a cap on high salaries for executives. And this guy got elected to three terms. Even back then we were ready to embrace socialism. Fast forward 80 years = $16,000,000,000,000,000.00 debt. Amazing how that works, eh?

I don't even have words for it.

[Showal]

http://www.allmotivated.com/pictures/Demotivational-pictures-wtf_Tree.jpg

In France, we quit while we are ahead and dont make more posts after we made a point to ruin it. That's in France though.

Even the taxes of the richest man could not have built the sewer system in Boston that is used to carry his shit. Even the taxes of the richest man could not have put a man on the moon!

[Atlanteax]

France is fucked. He ran on "we don't have to worry so much about spending" to get elected. Add onto the elections in Greece and you can basically kiss the Euro goodbye.

Markets are going to take a beating today.

Yea, Sardo was probably going to win re-election if it was not so much of an anti-Sardo vote for Hollande ... akin to the anti-Bush vote that got Obama elected.

Ideally what happened in France with the elections occurs here in the U.S. as well... Mitt Romney ends up elected, propelled by the anti-Obama vote.

[Atlanteax]

This country had a 70-90%ish income tax on the top bracket (which was much lower than 1.35m) until the 80s. Were we a socialist state then?

We were an economically restrained nation at that time ... then after taxes were slashed down ... we saw U.S. economic activity surge forward to again (since the WW2 aftermath) dominate the world economy.

[Parkbandit]

Ideally what happened in France with the elections occurs here in the U.S. as well... Mitt Romney ends up elected, propelled by the anti-Obama vote.

I think you are missing the big point. Hollande is promising not to worry so much about the spending (aka Obama) and that it's not fair that the evil rich fat cats (aka Obama) don't suffer for what they put the country through (aka Obama). It's the rich people's fault (aka Obama) for what has happened to the French Economy and they should pay (aka Obama).

It's a very powerful argument that has been used since the beginning of time and it appeals to the lowest common denominators in our society.

I don't think there is enough anti-Obama vote to give Romney the win. Obama will have more money to spend on this campaign than any other President in history.. and unless Romney doesn't get people to actually vote for him because they believe in him instead of voting for the lesser of two evils, he will end up losing.

[Back]

Stop eating fortune cookies for breakfast.

Even the last doughnut of the dozen gets a nibble.

[Keller]

PB, I'm not sure "aka" means what you think it means.

[Jarvan]

In France, we quit while we are ahead and dont make more posts after we made a point to ruin it. That's in France though.

Even the taxes of the richest man could not have built the sewer system in Boston that is used to carry his shit. Even the taxes of the richest man could not have put a man on the moon!

This is not technically true.

Mark Zuckerberg is about to be worth more then even Bill Gates I believe. He stated he will pay his fair share, and not try to hide money in offshore accounts. Someone stated it would likely be in hen 10-15 Billion range.

I think that could cover sewers and putting a man on the moon again even. Just can't use government contracts to do it.

Get a contract for 5 million, find out it's 25 million 3 weeks in, and end up paying 55 million. That's how Government works.

[Back]

Get a contract for 5 million, find out it's 25 million 3 weeks in, and end up paying 55 million. That's how Government works.

Shouldn't you blame the contractor for that?

[Jarvan]

PB, I'm not sure "aka" means what you think it means.

I totally read that in the Inigo Montoya voice in my head.

[Jarvan]

Shouldn't you blame the contractor for that?

Yes Back, but also the Government, since they always pay.

They don't have to pay. When they grant a 100 million contract to a company for a new weapon system, that should be all they pay. Not 100 Million plus whatever else the company can wring out of them.

And if you try to point out that that's why companies are evil, what would you do if you were given a check from the fed, and told it was for 1,000. But they left the amounts blank and told you to write it in yourself, and you knew you wouldn't get in trouble for writing in more.

Thought so.

[Ryvicke]

Austerity failed spectacularly just like any economist worth a damn predicted. Every leader that pushed for it should lose his/her job.

The real joke is that Paul Ryan thinks these same guidelines are going to magically start working here.

[Parkbandit]

PB, I'm not sure "aka" means what you think it means.

Haha.. true. I actually meant to put "ala" in keeping it French.. but my left side (FUCKING STUPID LEFTISTS!) changed it to aka or "Also known as".

I blame leftist extremists like you.

[Parkbandit]

Austerity failed spectacularly just like any economist worth a damn predicted. Every leader that pushed for it should lose his/her job.

Source? Which countries in Eurozone have been on real austerity budgets since 2008?

And by "any economist worth a damn" do you mean ones that agree with your tax/spend notion?



The real joke is that Paul Ryan thinks these same guidelines are going to magically start working here.

Well, Obama has tried the opposite since taking office... how's that working out for us?

[Showal]

This is not technically true.

Mark Zuckerberg is about to be worth more then even Bill Gates I believe. He stated he will pay his fair share, and not try to hide money in offshore accounts. Someone stated it would likely be in hen 10-15 Billion range.

I think that could cover sewers and putting a man on the moon again even. Just can't use government contracts to do it.

Get a contract for 5 million, find out it's 25 million 3 weeks in, and end up paying 55 million. That's how Government works.

This sort of post is why I thought a political thread by jarvan would be an amusing read.

[Gelston]

Zuckerberg is still about 44 Billion dollars behind Bill Gates.

[Atlanteax]

Zuckerberg's is from (social media) hype and is entirely driven by advertising revenues.

Gates' was from the dependencies of businesses to be able to function on a common operating system platform ... this was only further cemented with Office facilitating business-to-business communication.

One is a bubble ... the other was one.

[Latrinsorm]

Yes, because no one in the private sector knows how to construct and maintain streetlamps. :puzzled:

This country has been on the fast track to socialism since FDR. They guy instituted SS, but he didn't get to do half of what he wanted. Check him out on wikipedia sometime. His proposed "2nd Bill of Rights" blew my mind. During the war he pushed for higher income tax rates for individuals (reaching a marginal tax rate of 91%) and corporations and a cap on high salaries for executives. And this guy got elected to three terms. Even back then we were ready to embrace socialism. Fast forward 80 years = $16,000,000,000,000,000.00 debt. Amazing how that works, eh?Don't you think it's a little simplistic to blame our debt on any event 80 years ago? (Also, you got a little carried away with your 0s.)
This is not technically true.

Mark Zuckerberg is about to be worth more then even Bill Gates I believe. He stated he will pay his fair share, and not try to hide money in offshore accounts. Someone stated it would likely be in hen 10-15 Billion range.

I think that could cover sewers and putting a man on the moon again even. Just can't use government contracts to do it.

Get a contract for 5 million, find out it's 25 million 3 weeks in, and end up paying 55 million. That's how Government works.The Apollo program cost $25 billion in 1960s dollars. (You may be surprised to learn that it was estimated to cost $20, which I think is pretty good for a wholly unprecedented endeavor.) Mercury and Gemini combined were under $2 billion then, or about $10 billion now. While it's almost certainly cheaper to put a man back on the moon, the richest man's taxes would barely have gotten us into space, let alone to the moon.

[diethx]

Zuckerberg's is from (social media) hype and is entirely driven by advertising revenues.

Not entirely. All of the games that are so popular on FB now only accept payment via credits. I would imagine they're making bank off that.

[Atlanteax]

Ideally what happened in France with the elections occurs here in the U.S. as well... Mitt Romney ends up elected, propelled by the anti-Obama vote.

Looks like it could happen in the General Election...

Considering Obama almost lost a state in the Democratic Primary...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/08/keith-judd-texas-inmate-g_n_1501761.html?ref=elections-2012&ncid=webmail2


CHARLESTON, W.Va. — Just how unpopular is President Barack Obama in some parts of the country? Enough that a man in prison in Texas is getting 4 out of 10 votes in West Virginia's Democratic presidential primary.

"I voted against Obama," said Ronnie Brown, a 43-year-old electrician from Cross Lanes who called himself a conservative Democrat. "I don't like him. He didn't carry the state before and I'm not going to let him carry it again."
When asked which presidential candidate he voted for, Brown said, "That guy out of Texas."

Brown, the Cross Lanes electrician, went to the polls Tuesday with his 22-year-old daughter, Emily. She planned to vote for Judd too until she found out where Judd has been living.
"I'm not voting for somebody who's in prison," she said.
She was certain about one thing: "I just want to vote against Barack Obama."

[Showal]

I wonder if we will start hearing references to ronnie 6 pack the electrician this election year. You know, because he is someone we can all relate to and his opinion matters.

[Atlanteax]

Hollande's government will have four major challenges in the remainder of 2012. The first is reducing labor costs and creating jobs. An April report by Eurostat revealed that the average hourly labor cost in France is 34.2 euros (about $44.37), above the eurozone average of 27.6 euros. Most important, the hourly labor cost in France is above the cost in Germany (30.1 euros). The report also revealed that labor costs are growing at a faster pace in France than Germany.

At the same time, unemployment is rising in France. In August, unemployment reached 10.2 percent of the active population, the highest level in 13 years. According to the French National Statistics Office, the French economy will grow by 0.2 percent this year. Shrinking economic activity in Europe and a contracting market at home are hurting French companies, with key sectors such as the car making industry and retail being particularly affected.

Like Spain and Italy did earlier this year, France is considering labor reform as a solution to its high labor costs and increasing unemployment. The reform measures would attempt to reduce the costs of dismissing workers and simplify the procedures for hiring new employees. Like Madrid and Rome before, Paris will face opposition from some of the labor unions on these measures.

France's largest union, the French Democratic Confederation of Labor, is willing to negotiate on the reforms. Other unions, such as the left-leaning General Confederation of Labor and the Workers' Force, have a tougher stance on the issue. In early September, the French government began formal consultations with unions and employers, trying to find common ground for a labor reform. If the parties cannot reach an agreement by late December, Paris will launch its own proposal. The debate over labor reform is likely to be a key issue in France during 2013 and will probably generate strikes and protests across the country.

France = model of why State Socialism does not work

$44.37/hr in labor costs ?!?!?

No wonder there is such high unemployment...

Oh, let's not overlook this gem:


On Oct. 4, French Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici admitted that Paris is considering the modification of some of the taxes included in the new budget, because some owners of small businesses believe the taxes will hurt French entrepreneurs. Small- and medium-sized companies are particularly critical of a proposed increase in marginal capital gains tax rates to as high as 60 percent (the current rate is 32 percent).

I wouldn't want to be a small-business owner paying 60% either...

[Latrinsorm]

I don't understand why people of your ilk think that pointing out one example failing is equal to demonstrating that the underlying philosophy failing. Especially FRANCE, of all places. France can't go 40 years without having a catastrophically failed government, does that mean that secularism, republics, empires, and constitutional monarchies "do not work", or does it mean that France kinda sucks at government?

Also, will people of your ilk ever tire of referring to the marginal tax rate in unqualified terms? No small business owner is going to pay 60%, they are going to pay 60% on gains over some arbitrary threshold that the majority will never even see. I would have italicized that whole phrase but that would have been a bit much even for me.

Finally, here (http://www.bls.gov/fls/chartbook/section3.htm#chart3.1) is some perspective for the $44/hr number. If you graph the Western countries vs. their unemployment rates (http://www.photius.com/rankings/economy/unemployment_rate_2009_1.html) from the same time period, you will find if anything a negative correlation: the countries with lower labor costs have higher unemployment rates. (What you really find, however, is no significant correlation whatsoever.) It's a smoke screen. They want you to believe in simple explanations. Nothing in life is simple.

P.S. ILK ILK ILK

[Wrathbringer]

I don't understand why people of your ilk think that pointing out one example failing is equal to demonstrating that the underlying philosophy failing. Especially FRANCE, of all places. France can't go 40 years without having a catastrophically failed government, does that mean that secularism, republics, empires, and constitutional monarchies "do not work", or does it mean that France kinda sucks at government?

Also, will people of your ilk ever tire of referring to the marginal tax rate in unqualified terms? No small business owner is going to pay 60%, they are going to pay 60% on gains over some arbitrary threshold that the majority will never even see. I would have italicized that whole phrase but that would have been a bit much even for me.

Finally, here (http://www.bls.gov/fls/chartbook/section3.htm#chart3.1) is some perspective for the $44/hr number. If you graph the Western countries vs. their unemployment rates (http://www.photius.com/rankings/economy/unemployment_rate_2009_1.html) from the same time period, you will find if anything a negative correlation: the countries with lower labor costs have higher unemployment rates. (What you really find, however, is no significant correlation whatsoever.) It's a smoke screen. They want you to believe in simple explanations. Nothing in life is simple.

P.S. ILK ILK ILK

I don't understand why people of your ilk believe Socialist/Marxist/Communist systems are solvent, yet you do and they clearly are not. Somehow your ilk believes it is moral to live the Utopian Socialist dream (your ilk's perception, not mine) as long as you can until insolvency pulls the rug out from under everyone later and let them live and struggle with the fallout for generations. Hey, as long as your ilk is dead by then, who cares, right? Until your ilk can prove that the math works, my ilk will continue to ridicule your ilk.

[Latrinsorm]

It's been working in America for almost 100 years, bro. Redistribute the wealth, no more rebellions. Let them eat cake, heads lopped off. It's pretty straightforward, no? :)

[~Rocktar~]

It's been working in America for almost 100 years, bro. Redistribute the wealth, no more rebellions. Let them eat cake, heads lopped off. It's pretty straightforward, no? :)

No it hasn't. And more importantly the redistribution is coming to an end, either by austerity measures or the inevitable complete economic collapse. Guess which one is less painful.

[Atlanteax]

Top marginal rates were slashed from 94% to 86% then to 91%. They're now 35% and they didn't fall from 70% until Reagan came into office. They were 40% under Clinton. You lie Mitt Romney style.

For some added smashing.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/news/business/0915taxesandeconomy.pdf

So basically you agree with the premise that lower taxes = greater economic prosperity for the U.S.

That was the point... (you're the one making it about Dems/Reps vs Reps/Dems)

[Latrinsorm]

No it hasn't.Are you suggesting America isn't the best country in the world, commie?
And more importantly the redistribution is coming to an end, either by austerity measures or the inevitable complete economic collapse. Guess which one is less painful.Is that like how we were inevitably going to run out of fossil fuels in the 80s? And that was physical science. If you really think any American politician is going to enact austerity measures you just haven't been paying attention. Please see rattling, sabre-.

[Warriorbird]

So basically you agree with the premise that lower taxes = greater economic prosperity for the U.S.

That was the point... (you're the one making it about Dems/Reps vs Reps/Dems)

Much the opposite. Truman cut rates and then Eisenhower raised them again and holy shit the budget was balanced and a massive period of economic growth occurred. On top of that, these rates were, what, 60% above now in the time of your Republican economy fantasyland?

[~Rocktar~]

Are you suggesting America isn't the best country in the world, commie?

Nice non-sequitur. I have now given it more attention than it deserved.



Is that like how we were inevitably going to run out of fossil fuels in the 80s? And that was physical science. If you really think any American politician is going to enact austerity measures you just haven't been paying attention. Please see rattling, sabre-.

Diversionary argument is diversionary. According to the last substantial piece on debt I read, which was written before we hit the 15 trillion mark and was written by a Liberal/moderate economist, it is generally agreed that when the debt reaches a point over the GDP and the credit rating falls enough people stop buying our debt like meth addicts that the US will face a drastic economic collapse of government unless spending can be limited. To bring it down to your level, when you max out your credit, you either stop spending or go bankrupt. There are no other choices in the matter. So, either we work on genuine deficit reduction and economic growth or we stop spending due to economic collapse. No matter how much you or political leaders ignore it, the facts are clear, there are two choices in the matter and we will have to decide which we will go with.

[Bobmuhthol]

Oh my God when will people stop using terms they don't understand or know how to spell?

[~Rocktar~]

Oh my God when will people stop using terms they don't understand or know how to spell?

Probably about the time you grow up and pull your head out of the ass of academia and learn that just because a professor says it doesn't make it so. That will coincide with you also pulling your professor's/department head's dick out of your mouth and ass. I know that you have to suck up to get ahead in a graduate program, that's a given, you raise it up to the level of an art form a $2000/day hooker would be proud of.

By the way, I corrected the spelling to assuage your tender sensibility and stop offending your childish little feelers. You try posting and being perfect after a 14 hour day at work herding self entitled prima-donnas like yourself. Oh, wait, that would mean you would have to actually work and we both know that hasn't and isn't going to happen.

Lastly, want to explain how you THINK the term was used inappropriately?

[Keller]

Squiggles gets mad that people made fun of him for being a stock-boy at Walmart, but makes fun of Bob for being an MIT MBA student.

You really can't make this shit up folks.

[~Rocktar~]

Squiggles gets mad that people made fun of him for being a stock-boy at Walmart, but makes fun of Bob for being an MIT MBA student.

You really can't make this shit up folks.

Actually I could care less about being made fun of about my job, what is irritating is that putrescent sacks of vomit such as yourself seem to think that you are above such things. I do hope that you do not have to go through experiences similar to mine in order to learn some humility. I suppose that you would rather keep your pride and arrogance while living off of others or the government rather than work at a lowly job as menial labor.

I make fun of Bob because he is an infantile twit with no real experience in the world lecturing others about how the "real world" works. In addition, he is often just plain wrong.

You have a good day now. Or not. When the lessons of life come to haunt you, I do hope you remember all those you have condescended too along your life and I hope you recognize the irony when some lowly person is helping you wipe your ass in a nursing home or something.

[TheEschaton]

Being educated and talking about what you learned during your education isn't "pride." Pride is claiming your real life experience and the articles you read on break times somehow outweigh the discussions and debates being held by some of the smartest people in the world.

[Keller]

Your angsty response aside, I have a feeling that Bob's education as an MIT MBA student puts him in a much better position to talk about economics than your job inventorying cases of Tickle-Me Elmos.

[TheEschaton]

Come on Keller you elitist prick! Everyone knows Tickle-Me Elmos were SOOOOO 2003 you hipster douchebag.

[Androidpk]

Bob would rather spend his time making up BS stories about people he doesn't know.

[Latrinsorm]

Nice non-sequitur. I have now given it more attention than it deserved.




Diversionary argument is diversionary. According to the last substantial piece on debt I read, which was written before we hit the 15 trillion mark and was written by a Liberal/moderate economist, it is generally agreed that when the debt reaches a point over the GDP and the credit rating falls enough people stop buying our debt like meth addicts that the US will face a drastic economic collapse of government unless spending can be limited. To bring it down to your level, when you max out your credit, you either stop spending or go bankrupt. There are no other choices in the matter. So, either we work on genuine deficit reduction and economic growth or we stop spending due to economic collapse. No matter how much you or political leaders ignore it, the facts are clear, there are two choices in the matter and we will have to decide which we will go with.Nations, unlike corporations, are not people. Your analogy is therefore ill-founded. Regarding your expert's testimony, "just because a professor says it doesn't make it so." :)

For a less (but still somewhat) snippy response...
Me: you mean like during World War 2?
You: stop comparing apples to oranges!
Me: how do you model the future without reference to the past?

Would it interest you to know that during President Reagan's term the sudden and massive increase in deficit and debt led his opponents to predict (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26402-2004Jun8.html) "it was going to be Armageddon. We were going to ruin the economy. Interest rates were going to go through the roof. And none of these things happened." Everyone was sure a nation from Eastern Asia had us dead to rights, and it was only a matter of time before they dominated us economically. How did that work out for Japan?

Finally, Rocktar, this might just be me, but I would prefer it if your homophobic and bigoted remarks didn't clash with themselves. You already have Bob's head up his ass, why would you try and cram his "professor's/department head's dick" in the same orifice? You only need to shoot Toby once.
Bob would rather spend his time making up BS stories about people he doesn't know.Backstory!!! Spill, baby, spill!

[~Rocktar~]

Nations, unlike corporations, are not people. Your analogy is therefore ill-founded. Regarding your expert's testimony, "just because a professor says it doesn't make it so." :)

Economists are people and since the presented "facts" are in fact the opinions of economists, the analogy is appropriate. Denying the argument does not make it invalid however that is your team's typical response.


Would it interest you to know that during President Reagan's term the sudden and massive increase in deficit and debt led his opponents to predict (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26402-2004Jun8.html) "it was going to be Armageddon. We were going to ruin the economy. Interest rates were going to go through the roof. And none of these things happened." Everyone was sure a nation from Eastern Asia had us dead to rights, and it was only a matter of time before they dominated us economically. How did that work out for Japan?

I am well aware of the predictions of economists during Regan's time. Since you obviously missed it, I will quote where I address the very thing that allowed us to manage such spending and to survive economicaly.


So, either we work on genuine deficit reduction and economic growth or we stop spending due to economic collapse.


Finally, Rocktar, this might just be me, but I would prefer it if your homophobic and bigoted remarks didn't clash with themselves. You already have Bob's head up his ass, why would you try and cram his "professor's/department head's dick" in the same orifice? You only need to shoot Toby once.Backstory!!! Spill, baby, spill!

Again, a standard tactic of your side in arguments, claim any disputing argument must by nature of disagreement with you must be born of racism or homophobia. Would you prefer that I use a less sexist remark along the lines of "his/her dick/dildo"? I will if it is less offensive to your poor little feelers because after all, we wouldn't want to scar the psyche of such fragile egos like yours.

[~Rocktar~]

Your angsty response aside, I have a feeling that Bob's education as an MIT MBA student puts him in a much better position to talk about economics than your job inventorying cases of Tickle-Me Elmos.

If only he would demonstrate the merits of his education instead of raging like a child in a candy store not getting his way. Or perhaps show some comprehension of the fact that he has not supported himself in the world beyond academia for any degree of time and that such life experience, which he is lacking, does tend to create a somewhat more practical and utilitarian view of the world beyond the lofty and unrealistic imaginations of the academic community. By the way, aren't economists the ones who predicted 18 of the last 3 recessions?

[Bobmuhthol]

Bob would rather spend his time making up BS stories about people he doesn't know.Like Latrinsorm, I'm really interested in what you have to say here. Since I don't talk to you, you can't be referring to anything I've said to you. So you're apparently upset because you think I said something untrue about you or someone you care about, and I assure you that I didn't. I'm praying that the story behind this post is what I think it is, but even then it wouldn't be exciting because I don't waste my time making up stories about people.
If only he would demonstrate the merits of his education instead of raging like a child in a candy store not getting his way. Or perhaps show some comprehension of the fact that he has not supported himself in the world beyond academia for any degree of time and that such life experience, which he is lacking, does tend to create a somewhat more practical and utilitarian view of the world beyond the lofty and unrealistic imaginations of the academic community.What the fuck are you even talking about?

[Tgo01]

By the way, aren't economists the ones who predicted 18 of the last 3 recessions?

Wait what?

[Rallorick]

Your angsty response aside, I have a feeling that Bob's education as an MIT MBA student puts him in a much better position to talk about economics than your job inventorying cases of Tickle-Me Elmos.

I have an econ degree, and I'm a dumbass... I'm just sayin.

[Latrinsorm]

Economists are people and since the presented "facts" are in fact the opinions of economists, the analogy is appropriate. Denying the argument does not make it invalid however that is your team's typical response.If you honestly feel comparing a person to a nation is appropriate, I suppose there's nothing I can say to change your mind.
I am well aware of the predictions of economists during Regan's time. Since you obviously missed it, I will quote where I address the very thing that allowed us to manage such spending and to survive economicaly.Well (1) the deficit under Reagan tripled and (2) the United States economy has grown over the course of every administration since World War 2 (including President Obama's). In fact, the growth during President Reagan's administration is most similar to that of President Carter's, who ran smaller deficits.

Look, I agree that it's intuitive for deficit and debt to not be good. But it just doesn't turn out to be the case. If you want to do science, you can't stop after you've come up with a hypothesis. You have to be willing to reject it if the data contradicts it. It doesn't make you any less of a man: quite to the contrary!
Again, a standard tactic of your side in arguments, claim any disputing argument must by nature of disagreement with you must be born of racism or homophobia. Would you prefer that I use a less sexist remark along the lines of "his/her dick/dildo"? I will if it is less offensive to your poor little feelers because after all, we wouldn't want to scar the psyche of such fragile egos like yours.I would prefer that you didn't harbor a deep seated resentment and fear of homosexuals. If a sarcastic deference for my supposed feelings accomplishes this, I can live with that.

[~Rocktar~]

I would prefer that you didn't harbor a deep seated resentment and fear of homosexuals. If a sarcastic deference for my supposed feelings accomplishes this, I can live with that.

I would prefer if you stopped manufacturing diversions as an attempt to distract from the fact you both missed the point and clearly lack in reading comprehension.

[Atlanteax]

From STRATFOR:


Merkel is the latest of many German officials to reject the idea that weakening the euro would make it more competitive, which is something France recently proposed and that the countries in the eurozone periphery have supported. Merkel acknowledged that the euro's current value threatens the ability of peripheral countries to increase their exports, but she stressed that Germany is not willing to accept a weaker euro.

Also on Wednesday, the French business daily Les Echos revealed a letter by Maurice Taylor Jr., the president of Titan (an American manufacturer of wheels for agricultural vehicles), to French Minister of Industrial Renewal Arnaud Montebourg. In the letter, Taylor explains his reasons for not acquiring a Goodyear factory in northern France.

According to the letter, Titan is rejecting the proposal to acquire the plant because its employees “get paid high wages but only work three hours.” In the letter, Taylor said that French workers "get one hour for breaks and lunch, talk for three and work for three.” Goodyear said in January that it was planning to close its plant in Amiens, which employs 1,173 workers. The economic crisis is hitting the car-making sector in France particularly hard, with companies such as Renault and Peugeot suffering due to plummeting sales in Europe.

Wednesday’s statements touched on two very sensitive issues for France: the competitiveness of the French economy and the rigidity of its labor sector. The socialist government of President Francois Hollande is trying to boost the French economy and improve the competitiveness of its industry. Last week, Paris admitted that France's economic growth this year will be lower than expected, and that the French government likely will not meet its deficit targets. In January, Labor Minister Michel Sapin sparked controversy when he said that France "is bankrupt," a statement that French authorities later denied.

Break/Lunch for 1 hour, Idle/Chat for 3 hours, and only having to actually *work* for 3 hours sounds like what the UAW and other unions in the U.S. were hoping to accomplish (and still are with the 'no firing the unproductive' distortion of worker protection).

Fortunately for the U.S. economy, we've been working to curtail the unions' propensity (especially among the non-critical services in the public sector) to introduce malaise in productivity.

[Fallen]

I thought Maurice's followup comment shows the future of industry, sadly, "Titan is going to buy a Chinese tire company or an Indian one, pay less than one Euro per hour wage and ship all the tires France (http://www.reuters.com/places/france) needs," he said. "You can keep the so-called workers."

If it ain't slave labor...it just ain't labor.

[AnticorRifling]

Another perfect example of extremist thought and lack of moderation.

Pay them shit v pay them a ton plus huge perks

Middle ground people, middle ground.

[Warriorbird]

I thought Maurice's followup comment shows the future of industry, sadly, "Titan is going to buy a Chinese tire company or an Indian one, pay less than one Euro per hour wage and ship all the tires France (http://www.reuters.com/places/france) needs," he said. "You can keep the so-called workers."

If it ain't slave labor...it just ain't labor.

Not that any American companies would ever do that.

[Atlanteax]

Meanwhile, Western investment has contributed in a major way to signicant gains in the standard of living in coastal China and India.

[Lulfas]

Another perfect example of extremist thought and lack of moderation.

Pay them shit v pay them a ton plus huge perks

Middle ground people, middle ground.

Middle ground in that case only exists if there is a benefit to paying them anything more than shit. Elsewise it makes perfect sense to pay them shit.

[Atlanteax]

Middle ground in that case only exists if there is a benefit to paying them anything more than shit. Elsewise it makes perfect sense to pay them shit.

Wage inflation for Chinese workers in the coastal region has reached the point where manufacturing-intensive businesses are now thinking about relocating to Vietnam..

[Catts]

The election was last May....

Saw a gratifying article about France in today's WSJ (http://professional.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323549204578316102560819808.html?m od=djemBestOfTheWeb_h&mg=reno64-wsj).

[Atlanteax]

Saw a gratifying article about France in today's WSJ (http://professional.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323549204578316102560819808.html?m od=djemBestOfTheWeb_h&mg=reno64-wsj).

Corroborates what I was referring earlier.

[Latrinsorm]

It could be true, but the guy comes off as pretty self-aggrandizing and we only have his word on it so I wouldn't put too much weight in it.

[Tgo01]

It could be true, but the guy comes off as pretty self-aggrandizing and we only have his word on it so I wouldn't put too much weight in it.

Who am I going to believe? An American or a French guy? Choose wisely Latrin.

[Catts]

I suspect people earning over $1.3 million will be moving then.

[Atlanteax]

France: Unions Begin Protest Against Labor Reforms
Mar 5, 2013 | 1200 GMT

Two leftist French unions began a nationwide protest March 5 against labor-law reforms supported by mainstream unions, Reuters reported. Organizers expected hundreds of thousands of protesters to participate in a march in Paris, and the turnout will be seen as a measure of opposition to the reform, which is a key component of President Francois Hollande's efforts to improve industrial competitiveness. France may need to exert greater political pressure on Germany to relax its push for austerity across Europe.

"Hell no, we will not work (hard) ... Hell no, only minimal productivity from us!"