Subgate!

[ClydeR]

In a felonious breach of election laws, Romney personally handed out sub sandwiches to voters (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-subgate-democrats-accuse-romney-of-sandwich-bribery-video-20120403,0,2012178.story) in Wisconsin yesterday. He encouraged the voters to get out and vote and to take their friends. Under Wisconsin law, it is a felony punishable by up to 3.5 years in jail to offer anything of value to induce a voter to go to or refrain from going to the polls, vote or refrain from voting, vote or refrain from voting for or against a particular person, or vote or refrain from voting for or against a particular referendum.

The complaint (http://www.wisdems.org/news/press/view/2012-04--wisdems-file-complaint-with-gab-over-subs-for-votes) has already been filed. If Romney is elected, the only question is in what jail will he spend the first three quarters of his term. Or is it seven eighths?

[Drylec]

I came here to post exactly this story.

I am glad you have my back ClydeR.

You would never see a Democrat do something like this in Wisconsin. Those stories about "cigarettes for votes" and "BBQ for votes" are all just Republicant lies.

[Celephais]

If he's elected, couldn't he just pardon himself?

ETA: I decided to look it up, he can only pardon federal crimes, not state crimes.

[Androidpk]

Are you sure it doesn't include state crimes? I thought the only limit on a presidential pardon was that he couldn't pardon himself if he were to be impeached.

[Celephais]

Are you sure it doesn't include state crimes? I thought the only limit on a presidential pardon was that he couldn't pardon himself if he were to be impeached.

The first few sources I found searching for this resulted in mostly just people's opinions, this was the first that actually seemed legit, because the question was quite popular near the end of GW Bush's term.
http://www.democrats.com/pardon-faq


Q. Does the President actually have the power to pardon himself?

A. Yes. Article 2, Section 3, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution gives the President broad pardon power:

[The President] shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

There are only two restrictions on the President's pardon power:

He can only pardon "offences against the United States," in other words federal crimes. He cannot pardon state/local crimes or civil lawsuits or international crimes.
He cannot pardon in a "case of impeachment."

The rest of the FAQ goes on to explain that you can even pardon for something that you're getting impeached for, but that won't stop the impeachment, just subsequent penalties, since impeachment doesn't come w/ criminal charges, only removal from office and prevention of future office, if I'm understanding it correctly.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Section 12.60(2)(a), Wis. Stats., provides, “If a successful candidate for
public office, other than a candidate for the legislature or a candidate for national office,
is adjudged guilty in a criminal action of any violation of this chapter under sub. (1)
(a) committed during his or her candidacy, the court shall after entering judgment enter
a supplemental judgment declaring a forfeiture of the candidate's right to office

Am I reading this correctly that if he's found guilty, and he wins the primary or presidency, it could be revoked?

http://d21971ua898zk6.cloudfront.net/39/37/7/1246/Romney_GAB_Complaint.doc.pdf

[Celephais]

They need to put some parenthesis around this ... does the other than apply to the national office or just the legislature.

A: If a successful candidate for public office, other than (a candidate for the legislature or a candidate for national office)
B: If a successful candidate for public office, (other than a candidate for the legislature) or a candidate for national office

I'm assuming it doesn't apply and is A.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Actually, I read through it again and now I think it has no fangs at all except they could report him to the "presiding officer of the
legislative body to which the candidate was elected.”

[TheEschaton]

Man, now I want a sub.

[Androidpk]

http://www.zeros.com/customer-home.aspx

Best subs ever, too bad they're only in NC, TN, and VA.

[Atlanteax]

other than a candidate for national office

I'm assuming it doesn't apply

Agreed, does not apply

No props to the Democratic party for their egg-on-face attempt at suggesting political impropriety

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Agreed, does not apply

No props to the Democratic party for their egg-on-face attempt at suggesting political impropriety

I actually agree with them around the political impropriety.

[Latrinsorm]

It's not definitely wrong, but why would he even take the risk? He's had the nomination sewed up for months.

[WRoss]

Am I reading this correctly that if he's found guilty, and he wins the primary or presidency, it could be revoked?

http://d21971ua898zk6.cloudfront.net/39/37/7/1246/Romney_GAB_Complaint.doc.pdf

The primary "wins" are not what is important. It's the delegate process that matters. So even if he gets his win removed, it wouldn't matter because he'd still get the delegates.

[Celephais]

It's not definitely wrong, but why would he even take the risk? He's had the nomination sewed up for months.

He (his staff) probably didn't know it was a risk.

[~Rocktar~]

In a felonious breach of election laws, Romney personally handed out sub sandwiches to voters (http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-subgate-democrats-accuse-romney-of-sandwich-bribery-video-20120403,0,2012178.story) in Wisconsin yesterday. He encouraged the voters to get out and vote and to take their friends. Under Wisconsin law, it is a felony punishable by up to 3.5 years in jail to offer anything of value to induce a voter to go to or refrain from going to the polls, vote or refrain from voting, vote or refrain from voting for or against a particular person, or vote or refrain from voting for or against a particular referendum.

The complaint (http://www.wisdems.org/news/press/view/2012-04--wisdems-file-complaint-with-gab-over-subs-for-votes) has already been filed. If Romney is elected, the only question is in what jail will he spend the first three quarters of his term. Or is it seven eighths?


I came here to post exactly this story.

I am glad you have my back ClydeR.

You would never see a Democrat do something like this in Wisconsin. Those stories about "cigarettes for votes" and "BBQ for votes" are all just Republicant lies.


Sheesh, dualing bots now teaming up?

[Celephais]

Sheesh, dualing bots now teaming up?

Yeah, if you're going to anagram ClydeR you've got to get the formula right at least.

LerycD would have been a better name choice.

[ClydeR]

Criminal charges could be filed against Romney as early as next week.


Investigation into Romney Sub Sandwich Bribe Allegations Nearly Done

District attorney says interviews should wrap up this week over whether GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney and U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan broke the law by handing out subs on Election Day in Waukesha.

More... (http://waukesha.patch.com/articles/probe-into-romney-sub-sandwich-bribe-allegations-nearly-done)

[ClydeR]

In a close call, the Wisconsin prosecutor finally decided not to send Romney to jail for bribing voters with sandwiches. It took a month longer than expected to conclude the investigation, a sure sign that it was a close call.


“In his speech, Governor Romney indicates that there were more sandwiches available. The organizers paid for 100 sandwiches, but as they noted, less than 100 people attended the event. Event organizers concede that it is possible that an uninvited member of the public managed to obtain a free sandwich. However, the fact that there appeared to be plenty of sandwiches left over reflects that it is unlikely that any significant number of uninvited members of the public helped themselves to free lunch. Even if they had, the evidence demonstrates that the intention of the organizers was only to provide lunch to invited volunteers and supporters. Thus, no one who was not otherwise inclined to vote was intentionally offered any inducement to do so.”

More... (http://waukesha.patch.com/articles/mitt-romney-paul-ryan-cleared-in-election-day-sub-bribe-allegations)