New metals/bonuses idea

[WRoss]

I was just talking with a friend about veil iron and how mechanically retarded it is. Sure it's 5x, which used to be cool, but now it's pretty meh. You can't enchant it, bless it, forge it. It's just another lost metal that a very few love to RP with. With all those negatives shouldn't it have some sort of cool bonus?

It'd be cool to see metals or woods released that had special bonuses, aside from the bonuses we already encounter. It'd be nice to see a metal with a natural TD bonus or a natural CM bonus. I'd imagine they'd operate the same as zelnorn and acruity in terms of enchanting, but at least there would be new stuff to look forward to.

I believe this is something that the current staff could achieve and I'd love to hear your thoughts on how this would work.

[Luftstreitkräfte]

Great idea here.

[Androidpk]

Instead of introducing new metals just work on the ones we have now. Urnon, urglaes, krodera, ect ect.

[Gizmo]

That and we have fusion.

[WRoss]

That and we have fusion.

Hadn't even thought about fusion adding these effects.

[Archigeek]

Krodera does naturally add to TD. Or at least it is supposed to. I can't remember the last time they released some that actually did what it is supposed to do. I can't complain much about when they did though.

They really do need to do something with veil iron though. As it stands it's a shame.

[Gizmo]

Hadn't even thought about fusion adding these effects.

Personally, if anything I'd rather see fusion expanded before various metals.

As it stands, the reason why most people don't give a rats ass about metals is because of either no breakage, or the fact that alot of people prefer to use the most fusion they can get their hands on, which then leads to being forced to choose certain fusion weapons.

While I am all about substances/metals/woods with special properties and prefer them to reflect properties based on what they are made from, I just think it's never going to happen anymore now with the inclusion of fusion.

To me, items with special properties such as zelnorn, kroderine, and adamantine draw alot more attention to my eyes than fusion just because I always thought it was cool to be wielding "That weapon from that rare material" etc.

Now a days, the rarity of those metals don't matter much to many. Luckily for us at least the rarity still exists, but it seems more people lean towards using fusion than not.


Edit: Sorry if my post made absolutely no sense, I'm dead beat tired from a rather long day full of clients so I'm probably not typing coherently at all about my ideas

[WRoss]

Personally, if anything I'd rather see fusion expanded before various metals.

As it stands, the reason why most people don't give a rats ass about metals is because of either no breakage, or the fact that alot of people prefer to use the most fusion they can get their hands on, which then leads to being forced to choose certain fusion weapons.

While I am all about substances/metals/woods with special properties and prefer them to reflect properties based on what they are made from, I just think it's never going to happen anymore now with the inclusion of fusion.

To me, items with special properties such as zelnorn, kroderine, and adamantine draw alot more attention to my eyes than fusion just because I always thought it was cool to be wielding "That weapon from that rare material" etc.

Edit: Sorry if my post made absolutely no sense, I'm dead beat tired from a rather long day full of clients so I'm probably not typing coherently at all about my ideas

Now a days, the rarity of those metals don't matter much to many. Luckily for us at least the rarity still exists, but it seems more people lean towards using fusion than not.


This is great. I wasn't suggesting that these should absolutely be treasure drops, but more something to expand future GM run events. Fusion has it's limits and requires maintence. Here is a chance for the GMs to implement something new that is exciting, expand the premium system, as well as have new fodder to sell at merchant event.

[Drunken Durfin]

I've always wondered why Veil Iron didn't have a natural TD bonus on the armor side. It has all these anti-magic properties, so why would it not give you a TD bonus if you were wearing a helm made out of it?

[Gizmo]

This is great. I wasn't suggesting that these should absolutely be treasure drops, but more something to expand future GM run events. Fusion has it's limits and requires maintence. Here is a chance for the GMs to implement something new that is exciting, expand the premium system, as well as have new fodder to sell at merchant event.

I just feel the implementation of items like that are few and far between, and like you said these should still be a rarity.

As it stands, there just isn't much "wow" or "oomf" to this game anymore, as we no longer have those "Stand out personas" we use to have. Not to be some greedy sounding person, but sometimes cool items can make the person.

But I think they've been doing a stand up job at releasing items at events, such as last EG with the zelnorn etc.

A larger issue may be that there isn't really any other means to obtain said materials and it's sad.

Imagine a mining system with a similar mechanic to the slab generators that involve actual mining RT. A GM can put in 1 -2 slabs per few months, a year, whatever they deem fit for that metal and one lucky miner while using the system happens to stumble upon a vein of zelnorn.

With the above system, and an addition of armor smithing/revision to weapon forging, the outcome could be something amazing with that metal someone managed to find.

Same could go for wood working, include wood working in this game and you now have the ability to create both bows and runestaves.

The materials are ALL in place in this game, the issue at hand is implementation by the GMs and some coding. Which of course is always the issue in the long run with this game.

The pool of ideas is there, you just have to sift thru it and put the hamster in the ball and get it rolling.

[WRoss]

I'm not going to quote you there, as that is really long. I think you hit on a point though. Instead of challenging SIMU to code, couldn't our collective knowledge of the way they operate put out some simple ideas which we think they could code. Obviously we don't know the actual code, but we do know a lot of their formulas and enough of past changes that we know they can do it. I'd love to hear new ideas.

[Gizmo]

I'm not going to quote you there, as that is really long. I think you hit on a point though. Instead of challenging SIMU to code, couldn't our collective knowledge of the way they operate put out some simple ideas which we think they could code. Obviously we don't know the actual code, but we do know a lot of their formulas and enough of past changes that we know they can do it. I'd love to hear new ideas.

I'm not sure they'd be willing or capable to take on any new "ideas/functions/mechanics", they are so buried deep in previous and past goals it's not even funny.

Another issue is retaining GMs seems to put a damper on the flow of things.

For a short bit there, mining and smelting look like it actually would have gotten somewhere. But because of GM shortage, alot of projects get put on hold for other ones. A shame really, cause the ideas are definitely out there and I personally think the base mechanics for alot already exist.

Plenty of skeleton coding they could use as basis to implement new things exist I'm sure and what not, but again the issue is just having the will and manpower to do so that stays for the long haul and the higher ups don't screw with the flow of it all.

[RSR]

I'd suggest something more elaborate than just a TD bonus for veil iron. Something akin to a blink weapon perhaps. A spell cast at pure veil iron has a chance to be absorbed and the weapon/armor can flare with that effect.

The actual blurb on the material page for veil iron says :the most pure form of veil iron has the ability to drain items of magical power within close proximity.

Personally, I'm not sure how I'd incorporate that into a weapon/armor. Perhaps different spell circles would imbue different properties to the veil iron. The 'drain items' part makes me think of it more absorbing magic from things like wands, imbeds, etc and not directly from spells cast at the veil iron though.

-Richard.

[Gizmo]

I'd suggest something more elaborate than just a TD bonus for veil iron. Something akin to a blink weapon perhaps. A spell cast at pure veil iron has a chance to be absorbed and the weapon/armor can flare with that effect.

The actual blurb on the material page for veil iron says :the most pure form of veil iron has the ability to drain items of magical power within close proximity.

Personally, I'm not sure how I'd incorporate that into a weapon/armor. Perhaps different spell circles would imbue different properties to the veil iron. The 'drain items' part makes me think of it more absorbing magic from things like wands, imbeds, etc and not directly from spells cast at the veil iron though.

-Richard.

Yeah, the drain power ability mostly means it would nullify or drain power from any other magical artifacts nearby, rendering them utterly useless.

It would be interesting if veil iron still stayed inherently un-enchantable for example, but had a flare similar to the effects kroderine in a sense.

But when flaring, it would basically be like a cast of non-wardable 703. This in essence could be some sort of drain magic flare in a sense, sucking up all mana essences from the room itself leaving the target unable to cast for a brief duration until recovered/recouped.

Armor itself could flare or "Pulse" if you will, seeking out nearby objects in the room to drain mana from. The downside to armor would be the inability for the wielder to wear any spells whatsoever, but then that would bring the debate as to what would actually be considered magic/magical....Signs? Sigils? Fusion orbs? etc etc

[thefarmer]

Something akin to a blink weapon perhaps. A spell cast at pure veil iron has a chance to be absorbed and the weapon/armor can flare with that effect.


Kroderine+

[Donquix]

Even if they thought this was the best idea ever...what's the best case scenario on turn around time for completion? 5 years?

...sounds overly optimistic.

[Archigeek]

They neutered veil iron years ago, with this idea to "make it special" and posted the basics as though they were already historical... except they never did anything to make it happen, and now they're stuck with either saying, "we're sorry, we fubar'ed the veil iron, we're going back to square one" or having someone actually implement something that works. The present situation is basically halfway to anywhere, and thus nowhere. They need to either suck up their pride and take away the expectations and make it et-able, or implement something that doesn't overlap too closely with what some other metal already does.

Kroderine: absorbs incoming magic a percentage of the time.
Krodera: provides a TD bonus (this needs to have a standard amount applied to it, so GMs know what to do with it).
Adamantine: shatters weapons cause it's so hard!
Zelnorn: provides an AS bonus.
Razern: adds an anemic level of crit weighting which should be upgraded to at least somewhat.
Ton of other metals: add flares.

So what else is there, that we can apply to veil iron? And no picking from the above list!

[Gizmo]

They neutered veil iron years ago, with this idea to "make it special" and posted the basics as though they were already historical... except they never did anything to make it happen, and now they're stuck with either saying, "we're sorry, we fubar'ed the veil iron, we're going back to square one" or having someone actually implement something that works. The present situation is basically halfway to anywhere, and thus nowhere. They need to either suck up their pride and take away the expectations and make it et-able, or implement something that doesn't overlap too closely with what some other metal already does.

Kroderine: absorbs incoming magic a percentage of the time.
Krodera: provides a TD bonus (this needs to have a standard amount applied to it, so GMs know what to do with it).
Adamantine: shatters weapons cause it's so hard!
Zelnorn: provides an AS bonus.
Razern: adds an anemic level of crit weighting which should be upgraded to at least somewhat.
Ton of other metals: add flares.

So what else is there, that we can apply to veil iron? And no picking from the above list!

I still liked my Veil iron idea!

[Archigeek]

So with that in mind, here are some added thoughts:

It comes from the stars so...

Veil iron concept #1: it flares light, which makes darkness go away, and can potentially temporarily blind foes. Also cool messaging!

Veil iron concept #2: Because of the unique nature of the metal and how it is created, it has a natural enchant bonus of +1 enchant. Therefore a 5x enchant veil iron weapon would actually be 6x, and turning it from unenchantable to one of the most desireable metals to enchant, as a wizard would effectively be able to to 8x enchants with it. Not as sexy as #1, but we all secretly want the biggest AS in Gemstone!

Veil iron concept #3: It makes you fast, light speed ya know. Veil iron effectively allows you to reduce RT by 1 second lower (down to minimum) for weapons, and can reduce maneuver penalty in armor pieces by one rank or whatever that word is (basically in full plate, it would be equivelent to lowering your maneuver penalty by 4%).

Veil iron concept #4: +5 maneuver bonus for all CMANs performed with veil iron. Totally no logic to this, but it would be cool.

[Archigeek]

I still liked my Veil iron idea!

I like your idea too!

[Suppressed Poet]

Veil iron concept #2: Because of the unique nature of the metal and how it is created, it has a natural enchant bonus of +1 enchant. Therefore a 5x enchant veil iron weapon would actually be 6x, and turning it from unenchantable to one of the most desireable metals to enchant, as a wizard would effectively be able to to 8x enchants with it. Not as sexy as #1, but we all secretly want the biggest AS in Gemstone!


I thought of this but you beat me to it. They should have one metal that a wizard can take up to 10x by fairly easy means. Maybe introduce a new potion for the 7X - 10X enchants that only work on veil iron. As a trade off, no weighting or flares can be added. Also the difficulty for the enchant would increase. You would have to be a capped or beyond wizard to have a good shot of getting it to 10X.

[Archigeek]

I thought of this but you beat me to it. They should have one metal that a wizard can take up to 10x by fairly easy means. Maybe introduce a new potion for the 7X - 10X enchants that only work on veil iron. As a trade off, no weighting or flares can be added. Also the difficulty for the enchant would increase. You would have to be a capped or beyond wizard to have a good shot of getting it to 10X.

That sounds too much like work! Anytime a special anything is required, it never happens enough. I like the simplicity of veil iron just being "+5 to enchantment" and calling it a day. That way, with veil iron a wizard could do an effective 8x enchant where otherwise the limit would be 7x. That alone would be a nice value improvement for veil iron, and even moreso if you could take it to 10x by normal means, giving you an effective 11x. I could see further restriction on flares/weighting, but even that I think is unecessary given it's only an extra +5. In the grand scheme of things that isn't really very much. Even if the cap was still an effective 10x, it'd still be a pretty nice advantage to be able to effectively do the 8x with a wizard.

[Sam]

More metals is not only a good idea, but it seems like something that would be easy to accomplish. Just adding new metals with standard properties and possibly throwing them into the loot hopper.. that should take like a day of brainstorming and a couple hours of coding..

Really any spell that doesn't use CS/TD could be used as a flare the same way blinks do. Haste flaring daggers would be pretty sweet, or maybe some slow flaring armor.

You'd think the cost/benefit ratio of implementing a few more standard metals, even as rare drops, should incline those lazy bastards to do it.
It doesn't have to be GAME BREAKING to be interesting.. Stupid stuff like this is what makes people create new characters and keep playing.

[WRoss]

More metals is not only a good idea, but it seems like something that would be easy to accomplish. Just adding new metals with standard properties and possibly throwing them into the loot hopper.. that should take like a day of brainstorming and a couple hours of coding..

Really any spell that doesn't use CS/TD could be used as a flare the same way blinks do. Haste flaring daggers would be pretty sweet, or maybe some slow flaring armor.

You'd think the cost/benefit ratio of implementing a few more standard metals, even as rare drops, should incline those lazy bastards to do it.
It doesn't have to be GAME BREAKING to be interesting.. Stupid stuff like this is what makes people create new characters and keep playing.

If there were TD bonus metals out there, I'd play my warrior and rogue. Well, if I can remember their names to reactivate.

[Archigeek]

If there were TD bonus metals out there, I'd play my warrior and rogue. Well, if I can remember their names to reactivate.

That's the stupid part! There IS a TD bonus metal, it just never/almost never gets released: krodera. So the issue isn't "there isn't a metal" it's "how come you never release any krodera?"

I think the kroderine was a very cool step in the right direction there, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't ever issue more krodera.

[WRoss]

That's the stupid part! There IS a TD bonus metal, it just never/almost never gets released: krodera. So the issue isn't "there isn't a metal" it's "how come you never release any krodera?"

I think the kroderine was a very cool step in the right direction there, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't ever issue more krodera.

Are all those sets of krodera plate +TD? I've never heard about any krodera armor adding to TD.

[Archigeek]

Are all those sets of krodera plate +TD? I've never heard about any krodera armor adding to TD.

Well if you go to the play.net materials list you'll see that the definition of krodera is pretty much a match for the implementation of kroderine, which is unfortunate. Traditionally, it is/was a TD enhancing metal. I think the present definition probably was written in by the same person who decided veil iron needed a rewrite, and then wasn't able to follow up for whatever reason. I suspect that kroderine was made to create something similar to the krodera definition on the website... without messing with what was already out there.

There are some sets of TD enhancing krodera plate and TD enhancing krodera shields out there. I have one of each, and at various times have owned at least 3 of the shields with differing levels of TD bonuses and enchants. Unfortunately, since they aren't making any new krodera, most of the rest of it has gone to the ether.

There are also at least a couple of other TD enhancing sets of plate out there that aren't krodera, though none with more than +15TD that I know of.

It's unfortunate that some GMs have at times done a rewrite on materials without doing the implemention first: segway back to veil iron. Tada!

[Ceyrin]

What more can you expect from a game that will retire in beta?

[MrMortimur]

I believe it was slated for the next elemental lore review but if/when wizards are able to enchant rhimar/drakar/gornar/XXX based on their attunement or lore skill that'd make those metals at least desirable and give forgers a reason to make something out of those slabs.

Perhaps code in a bonus for the wielder of the weapon if their attunement is the same as the weapon material they're using. That or maybe the ice flares from rhimar are slightly higher then ice flares put on some natural weapon due to being more infused throughout the weapon.

Possible fix to razern might be to let you use a whetstone on it to sharpen it's edge up to decently crit weighted but this would be something you'd have to do semi regularly. (think wand flaring runestaves)

[Archigeek]

Possible fix to razern might be to let you use a whetstone on it to sharpen it's edge up to decently crit weighted but this would be something you'd have to do semi regularly. (think wand flaring runestaves)

I like that idea.

[GTG]

Even if they actually applied some of the properties you see on the play.net site to actually reflect what you get out of the hopper would be a step in the right direction. Can't count the number of times you pull some random weapon that is nowhere close to the actual metal stats.

[Makkah]

But... black ora is CURSED!!!111

[Sylvan Dreams]

If they would just find a way to implement the alleged features of the existing metals that would be really neat. Like veil iron is supposed to drain magic items. It would be neat if it would drain charges from worn magic items and then inherited different properties based on the magic items it drained and how much. If mithril boxes can't be opened by magic, why can they be magically enchanted?

I think it's a great idea that would give weapons/armor/shields a lot more flavor and would give us something additional to mess around with in game.

[WRoss]

If they would just find a way to implement the alleged features of the existing metals that would be really neat. Like veil iron is supposed to drain magic items. It would be neat if it would drain charges from worn magic items and then inherited different properties based on the magic items it drained and how much. If mithril boxes can't be opened by magic, why can they be magically enchanted?

I think it's a great idea that would give weapons/armor/shields a lot more flavor and would give us something additional to mess around with in game.

Mithril is actually the easiest to enchant.

[GS4Merchant]

If they would just find a way to implement the alleged features of the existing metals that would be really neat. Like veil iron is supposed to drain magic items. It would be neat if it would drain charges from worn magic items and then inherited different properties based on the magic items it drained and how much. If mithril boxes can't be opened by magic, why can they be magically enchanted?

I think it's a great idea that would give weapons/armor/shields a lot more flavor and would give us something additional to mess around with in game.


If they managed to implement half the shit they talked about, it would be neat. -.-

[Gizmo]

Mithril is actually the easiest to enchant.

He meant why can't mithril boxes be popped with 407, if otherwise you can cast magic at them in the form of enchant.