Dance with Dragons SPOILER questions

[Revalos]

OK, I didn't want to post this in the HBO show thread, but I had a couple questions/thoughts for those who have read all the books. I just finished Dance with Dragons today so that I could concentrate on watching the show this weekend.

1) Do you think Jamie is dead? Did Lady Stonehart/Undead Kaitlyn free Brienne to kill him?

2) Is the Bran/Rickon/Teenage Mutant Ninja Bogpeople up in the cave just a plot that will go nowhere?

3) Was Arya with Varyes when he killed Kevin Lannister? Who were the kids?

4) Jon Snow - another Coldhands? Will Mellisonde ressurect him? Is Stannis dead too?

5) Samwell is in Oldtown...but now what? And what about the Obsidian candle being lit? Or that dude that killed the guy for the key to the tower?

[Lord Orbstar]

OK, I didn't want to post this in the HBO show thread, but I had a couple questions/thoughts for those who have read all the books. I just finished Dance with Dragons today so that I could concentrate on watching the show this weekend.

1) Do you think Jamie is dead? Did Lady Stonehart/Undead Kaitlyn free Brienne to kill him?

2) Is the Bran/Rickon/Teenage Mutant Ninja Bogpeople up in the cave just a plot that will go nowhere?

3) Was Arya with Varyes when he killed Kevin Lannister? Who were the kids?

4) Jon Snow - another Coldhands? Will Mellisonde ressurect him? Is Stannis dead too?

5) Samwell is in Oldtown...but now what? And what about the Obsidian candle being lit? Or that dude that killed the guy for the key to the tower?


1. No. No. It is bad though what happens to him and changes him.

2. No. He becomes an accomplished skin-changer. Hodor hodor!

3. I do not remember. Arya is on her way to becoming an assassin.

4. Treachery at the wall and a cold Snow. No. Not yet.

5. I forget. He is forgettable and weak.

[Ryvicke]

OK, I didn't want to post this in the HBO show thread, but I had a couple questions/thoughts for those who have read all the books. I just finished Dance with Dragons today so that I could concentrate on watching the show this weekend.

1) Do you think Jamie is dead? Did Lady Stonehart/Undead Kaitlyn free Brienne to kill him?

2) Is the Bran/Rickon/Teenage Mutant Ninja Bogpeople up in the cave just a plot that will go nowhere?

3) Was Arya with Varyes when he killed Kevin Lannister? Who were the kids?

4) Jon Snow - another Coldhands? Will Mellisonde ressurect him? Is Stannis dead too?

5) Samwell is in Oldtown...but now what? And what about the Obsidian candle being lit? Or that dude that killed the guy for the key to the tower?

I think there's a thread from when the book came out that people talked about these questions in depth. I read the book when it came out and I can't remember much about what you're talking about.

1. I hope not? Who knows.

2. I hope it's not pointless... I think it will figure in pretty heavily to whatever epic ending is in store.

3. I can't remember who Varyes is or who the kids you are talking about are.

4. I think I remember thinking Stannis was for sure dead... no idea what's going to happen to Jon Snow. I'm only hoping that by the end of the whole thing there's a solid statement as to why the characters that died, died. It's easy to find fatal flaws in the main characters that have died this far, but I'd like a solid foundation and argument for what GRRM believes are the necessary qualities to prosper successfully in his world AND serve "good." If the answer being that there is none, then whatever.

5. Who knows, the Oldtown shit has been about 1 gajillion times more interesting than half of what Daenerys has been doing for 4 books.

[Liagala]

OK, I didn't want to post this in the HBO show thread, but I had a couple questions/thoughts for those who have read all the books. I just finished Dance with Dragons today so that I could concentrate on watching the show this weekend.

1) Do you think Jamie is dead? Did Lady Stonehart/Undead Kaitlyn free Brienne to kill him?

2) Is the Bran/Rickon/Teenage Mutant Ninja Bogpeople up in the cave just a plot that will go nowhere?

3) Was Arya with Varyes when he killed Kevin Lannister? Who were the kids?

4) Jon Snow - another Coldhands? Will Mellisonde ressurect him? Is Stannis dead too?

5) Samwell is in Oldtown...but now what? And what about the Obsidian candle being lit? Or that dude that killed the guy for the key to the tower?
1a. No, he's got to be around long enough to finally rebel against his sister/family for their being terrible people. He's already headed that way.
1b. No, Brienne heard a voice yelling just as the chapter ended - said voice is supposed to be her savior, but zombie Catelin doesn't yell.

2. Wex (Greyjoy's servant) knows where Rickon is, and is going to lead (whoever he was "talking" to in that chapter, I forget) right to him. I assume that will be more important in the next book. Bran's going to do funky stuff with trees and change the past somehow (mentioned by Martin in some interview or other)

3. Nope, she's across the ocean doing stuff. The kids were just random street urchins that are on Varys' payroll. Given his history with growing up on the streets, it makes sense that he would make use of the local kids. It's how he survived, might as well pay it forward.

4. (pure speculation on this one, no evidence to back it up) I think Melisandre will resurrect him, but unlike the Catelin thing, it will be an actual return to life. Her magic powers really do things, unlike Thoros - if the drunken brawler can make a dead guy walk, she can bring a dead guy back entirely.

5. Don't remember much about Sam, but I assume he grows some balls somewhere and does good stuff.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

1) Do you think Jamie is dead? Did Lady Stonehart/Undead Kaitlyn free Brienne to kill him?

I don't think he's dead, but I think some crazy shit is about to happen.

2) Is the Bran/Rickon/Teenage Mutant Ninja Bogpeople up in the cave just a plot that will go nowhere?

I think its actually going to be quite important and its just been a slow build.

3) Was Arya with Varyes when he killed Kevin Lannister? Who were the kids?

I don't think she was, unless she got a different face, and even then I find it very doubtful that her master would send her back to Westeros and face-to-face with the Arya's past before she's fully completed her training as an assassin.

4) Jon Snow - another Coldhands? Will Mellisonde ressurect him? Is Stannis dead too?

I don't think Jon Snow is dead. I have a theory that Jon Snow is the love child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryan so I'll be pretty pissed if he just dies and we never find out who his mom is. He may no longer be a part of the Watch due to the mutiny but if that's the case it just opens the door for more exciting possibilities!

I don't think Stannis is dead, and I think the Boltons are gonna get fucking pwned. At least I really want them to, because I fucking hate the Bastard.

5) Samwell is in Oldtown...but now what? And what about the Obsidian candle being lit? Or that dude that killed the guy for the key to the tower?
Honestly I have no clue, we'll have to see how it plays out.

[Ryvicke]

Ohhhh right Varys, Kevin Lannister is dead? Didn't he go somewhere to hang out with his kid that was banging Cersei or to make sure that he didn't join that priesthood thing and become a homosex?

Arya is straight-pimping over in that one town. And by straight-pimping I mean learning how to be fucking MAGICAL. But also holy.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Ohhhh right Varys, Kevin Lannister is dead? Didn't he go somewhere to hang out with his kid that was banging Cersei or to make sure that he didn't join that priesthood thing and become a homosex?
Kevan gets a message that Grand Maester Pycelle needs to see him at once, so he goes and finds Pycelle dead before getting pwned in the chest by a crossbow. Varys then reveals that Aegon is still alive (Dany's nephew and Rhaegar's youngest son via his wife, something we found out earlier when Tyrion was traveling with them) and that this needs to be done to sew distrust and hate between the Tyrells and Lannisters so a Targaryan can usurp them more easily.

[Drew]

I don't think Jon Snow is dead. I have a theory that Jon Snow is the love child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryan

What an interesting theory, did you come up with it?

[Delias]

What an interesting theory, did you come up with it?

It's a good theory. I am now excited thinking about it.

[Lord Orbstar]

They stabbed Snow in the back multiple times and he died. the men of the watch rebelled. again.

[Delias]

They stabbed Snow in the back multiple times and he died. the men of the watch rebelled. again.

Maaaaaagic.

[Drew]

It's a good theory. I am now excited thinking about it.

I was joking. It's a super common theory (and a good one).


http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html

(drop down to book 5 on the scope menu to see the theory)

[Delias]

I was joking. It's a super common theory (and a good one).


http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html

(drop down to book 5 on the scope menu to see the theory)

Meh. I prefer just to wait and see. I don't really do research on books I read for pleasure... beyond asking someone if it is good, that is.

[Kitsun]

OK, I didn't want to post this in the HBO show thread, but I had a couple questions/thoughts for those who have read all the books. I just finished Dance with Dragons today so that I could concentrate on watching the show this weekend.

1) Do you think Jamie is dead? Did Lady Stonehart/Undead Kaitlyn free Brienne to kill him?

2) Is the Bran/Rickon/Teenage Mutant Ninja Bogpeople up in the cave just a plot that will go nowhere?

3) Was Arya with Varyes when he killed Kevin Lannister? Who were the kids?

4) Jon Snow - another Coldhands? Will Mellisonde ressurect him? Is Stannis dead too?

5) Samwell is in Oldtown...but now what? And what about the Obsidian candle being lit? Or that dude that killed the guy for the key to the tower?

1. It doesn't seem likely that he's dead yet. The cut away at death scene is GRRM's fake out move.

2. I think since it is the Song of Ice and Fire; Dany is Fire/Rho'llar's champion that Melisandre needs to find while Rickton is Ice/????? champion that Ice Hands is supposed to sculpt.

3. No. Random urchins. The kids are likely Varys' actual spiders.

4. I think Jon is dead. I think Melisandre tried to warn him for a reason.

5. Samwell, no idea. He might become a guide for someone if he uncovers some kind of knowledge.

[Delias]

1. It doesn't seem likely that he's dead yet. The cut away at death scene is GRRM's fake out move.

2. I think since it is the Song of Ice and Fire; Dany is Fire/Rho'llar's champion that Melisandre needs to find while Rickton is Ice/????? champion that Ice Hands is supposed to sculpt.

3. No. Random urchins. The kids are likely Varys' actual spiders.

4. I think Jon is dead. I think Melisandre tried to warn him for a reason.

5. Samwell, no idea. He might become a guide for someone if he uncovers some kind of knowledge.

So... you think Thoros the drunk priest of the fire god can bring people back to life, but melisandre can't?

[Kitsun]

So... you think Thoros the drunk priest of the fire god can bring people back to life, but melisandre can't?

Maybe a won't is more applicable than a can't. She knows better than Thoros that there's a price to that kind of magic.

[SHAFT]

If I'm only on book 3 should I be in here?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

What an interesting theory, did you come up with it?

I was suspicious from the get go that Jon wasn't Eddard's, and then I got to the part that Dany met with the Warlocks in the house of the Undying and saw the blue rose in the ice and immediately thought of Jon Snow. Went back and found the details of Lyanna and Rhaegar's sordid affair and when he crowned her the Queen of Love and Beauty and she got blue roses, that Eddard found her with when she was dying in the tower. What did he promise Lyanna, hmmmm?

Thhhhat being said I'm far from the only person to have this suspicion, after I finished the series I did some googling and other people have put together better arguments.

Edit: haha and I see you were being sarcastic. WHATEVA!

[Revalos]

1a. No, he's got to be around long enough to finally rebel against his sister/family for their being terrible people. He's already headed that way.
1b. No, Brienne heard a voice yelling just as the chapter ended - said voice is supposed to be her savior, but zombie Catelin doesn't yell.

2. Wex (Greyjoy's servant) knows where Rickon is, and is going to lead (whoever he was "talking" to in that chapter, I forget) right to him. I assume that will be more important in the next book. Bran's going to do funky stuff with trees and change the past somehow (mentioned by Martin in some interview or other)

I thought it was Brienne yelling something with her theoretical last breath. Something I assumed was enough for Zombie Catelin to let her and whatshisnuts live. Only thing I could figure was that she knew Arya was alive.

I had completely forgotten about the Wex stuff. Good point there, that does lead the story back to Bran.


1. It doesn't seem likely that he's (Jon Snow) dead yet. The cut away at death scene is GRRM's fake out move.

Yeah, I got fooled by the Tyrion drowning scene, but Jon Snow got Ceaser'd...I can't see him recovering from that without assistance. Hell, Quentin "En Fuego...err the Frog" Martell got dragowned and it cut away and I was like...maybe he wasn't that badly burned and he'll make it....nope.

[Ryvicke]

If I'm only on book 3 should I be in here?

Get out before you find out where everyone walked around to/raped/became gangrenous for the next 2 books!!